It's the second letter, about elderly singles clubs.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/living/ci_8270178

I found this interesting:

"Miss Manners understands that the time in which domestic work was
assigned by gender is past. But so is the time right afterward, when
both genders were supposed to take turns doing all the exact same
tasks.

"Sensible people have, Miss Manners hopes, come around to realizing
that everyone is happier if allowed to contribute what he or she does
best."


On the one hand, of course, she's right. Plus, bean counting never
makes families (though family is not the subject here) happy.

Unfortunately, one thing she seldom talks about is how it's often a
difference of HOURS spent on work that causes domestic resentment, not
necessarily the type of work done, whether paid or unpaid. Assuming
we're not talking about the expectations of an antiseptic freak, for
example. I.e., if two people have 40-hour paid jobs, it's hardly fair
for one of them to balk at doing any domestic chores just because that
person finds all domestic chores horribly depressing and the other
doesn't.

Lenona.

wrote on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:19:26 -0800
(PST):

l> http://www.contracostatimes.com/living/ci_8270178

l> I found this interesting:

l> "Miss Manners understands that the time in which domestic
l> work was assigned by gender is past. But so is the time
l> right afterward, when both genders were supposed to take
l> turns doing all the exact same tasks.

l> "Sensible people have, Miss Manners hopes, come around to
l> realizing that everyone is happier if allowed to contribute
l> what he or she does best."

l> On the one hand, of course, she's right. Plus, bean counting
l> never makes families (though family is not the subject here)
l> happy.

l> Unfortunately, one thing she seldom talks about is how it's
l> often a difference of HOURS spent on work that causes
l> domestic resentment, not necessarily the type of work done,
l> whether paid or unpaid. Assuming we're not talking about the
l> expectations of an antiseptic freak, for example. I.e., if
l> two people have 40-hour paid jobs, it's hardly fair for one
l> of them to balk at doing any domestic chores just because
l> that person finds all domestic chores horribly depressing
l> and the other doesn't.

The battle for equality is not won yet :-) While looking for a
birthday present for my granddaughter, I came across a line of
toys with a brand name, "For Girls Only". They were toy
reproductions of various well-known vacuum cleaners!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

wrote:

>
>
> "Miss Manners understands that the time in which domestic work was
> assigned by gender is past. But so is the time right afterward, when
> both genders were supposed to take turns doing all the exact same
> tasks.
>
> "Sensible people have, Miss Manners hopes, come around to realizing
> that everyone is happier if allowed to contribute what he or she does
> best."
>
> On the one hand, of course, she's right. Plus, bean counting never
> makes families (though family is not the subject here) happy.
>
> Unfortunately, one thing she seldom talks about is how it's often a
> difference of HOURS spent on work that causes domestic resentment, not
> necessarily the type of work done, whether paid or unpaid. Assuming
> we're not talking about the expectations of an antiseptic freak, for
> example. I.e., if two people have 40-hour paid jobs, it's hardly fair
> for one of them to balk at doing any domestic chores just because that
> person finds all domestic chores horribly depressing and the other
> doesn't.

I am all for sharing all work around the house. I do most of the cooking
and I usually do the vacuuming and my own laundry, and add anything that
is suitable for the load I am doing. I am the one who hangs up the laundry
when we dry it,a nd I bring it in. I am the one who does all the
painting, the lawn, snow shovelling, leaf raking, dditch digging,
plumbing and electrical repairs etc. My wife has no problem cleaning the
kitchen after I have cooked, and she does the rest of the house cleaning.
I spend many more hours on household chores.

I am not complaining about it, I just get tired of hearing women
complaining about having to do all the housework.

Dave Smith wrote:

>
> I am not complaining about it, I just get tired of hearing women
> complaining about having to do all the housework.
>

And women get even more tired of having to do it all, too.

gloria p

wrote:
> It's the second letter, about elderly singles clubs.
>
> http://www.contracostatimes.com/living/ci_8270178


I almost got the feeling that an editor mismatched Martin's answer to
another question. What she said about not bean counting and men and
women not having to spend equal time doing the same tasks made sense--
but it had nothing to do with the question that was asked.


A better answer would have been for the women to ask themselves how much
they like this guy and whether they mind his mooching. If they want to
take him on as a lonely, non-contributing, charity case, fine. Do so;
give yourself a pat for doing a good deed, and stop complaining. If
they'd rather get rid of the moocher, that's fine too. Be assertive.
Stop letting him know the where and when of potlucks. Stop allowing
themselves to be manipulated into allowing him to invite himself over to
family dinners. Just Say No.


If the answer is somewhere in between, maybe they enjoy his company
somewhat, then ask upfront for a monetary contribution. Say he's
welcome to attend the potlucks, but he must pay the hostess $10 for each
one. Whatever. But don't turn a problem with a moocher into an essay
on gender equality.


--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
. ..
> wrote:
>> It's the second letter, about elderly singles clubs.
>>
>> http://www.contracostatimes.com/living/ci_8270178
>
>
> I almost got the feeling that an editor mismatched Martin's answer to
> another question. What she said about not bean counting and men and women
> not having to spend equal time doing the same tasks made sense--
> but it had nothing to do with the question that was asked.
>
>
> A better answer would have been for the women to ask themselves how much
> they like this guy and whether they mind his mooching. If they want to
> take him on as a lonely, non-contributing, charity case, fine. Do so;
> give yourself a pat for doing a good deed, and stop complaining. If
> they'd rather get rid of the moocher, that's fine too. Be assertive. Stop
> letting him know the where and when of potlucks. Stop allowing themselves
> to be manipulated into allowing him to invite himself over to family
> dinners. Just Say No.
>
>
> If the answer is somewhere in between, maybe they enjoy his company
> somewhat, then ask upfront for a monetary contribution. Say he's welcome
> to attend the potlucks, but he must pay the hostess $10 for each one.
> Whatever. But don't turn a problem with a moocher into an essay on gender
> equality.

I agree. MM's reply started out addressing the mooching problem just fine,
but the way it ended up--talking about gender equality--confused me.
Mooching isn't a gender-specific problem. The moocher could very well have
been an elderly, single woman who never brings anything appetizing to
potlucks, yet takes home tons of food contributed by other people (and
constantly invites herself to others' family dinners).

I agree with your answer, Lia. The other singles either need to be assertive
and establish boundaries with the moocher or stop complaining about him.

Mary

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:VUjtj.744$0%3.265@trnddc06...
> wrote on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:19:26 -0800 (PST):
>
> l> http://www.contracostatimes.com/living/ci_8270178
>
> l> I found this interesting:
>
> l> "Miss Manners understands that the time in which domestic
> l> work was assigned by gender is past. But so is the time
> l> right afterward, when both genders were supposed to take
> l> turns doing all the exact same tasks.
>
> l> "Sensible people have, Miss Manners hopes, come around to
> l> realizing that everyone is happier if allowed to contribute
> l> what he or she does best."
>
> l> On the one hand, of course, she's right. Plus, bean counting
> l> never makes families (though family is not the subject here)
> l> happy.
>
> l> Unfortunately, one thing she seldom talks about is how it's
> l> often a difference of HOURS spent on work that causes
> l> domestic resentment, not necessarily the type of work done,
> l> whether paid or unpaid. Assuming we're not talking about the
> l> expectations of an antiseptic freak, for example. I.e., if
> l> two people have 40-hour paid jobs, it's hardly fair for one
> l> of them to balk at doing any domestic chores just because
> l> that person finds all domestic chores horribly depressing
> l> and the other doesn't.
>
> The battle for equality is not won yet :-) While looking for a birthday
> present for my granddaughter, I came across a line of toys with a brand
> name, "For Girls Only". They were toy reproductions of various well-known
> vacuum cleaners!
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Oh good lord! What company thinks every little girl dreams of owning a
vacuum cleaner? What a throwback to the days of the Easy Bake Oven!

Jill

"Puester" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> I am not complaining about it, I just get tired of hearing women
>> complaining about having to do all the housework.
>>
>
> And women get even more tired of having to do it all, too.
>
> gloria p

I suppose it depends on the era in which you were raised, as well. My
mother didn't work outside the home and she truly believed in the Ozzie &
Harriet/June and Ward Cleaver scenario. She did everything inside the home.
Dad took care of the yard work until we kids were big enough to push a
lawnmower. But sometimes Mom mowed the lawn, too. She says she found it
relaxing - of course that was after self-propelled mowers came along LOL
After Dad retired things changed but only slightly: he'd clean his own
bathroom. Never in my life have I seen him vacuum or do a load of laundry.

Jill

James Silverton wrote:
>
> The battle for equality is not won yet :-) While looking for a birthday
> present for my granddaughter, I came across a line of toys with a brand
> name, "For Girls Only". They were toy reproductions of various
> well-known vacuum cleaners!


This is so unbelievable that I'm inclined not to believe it. I mean, I
believe you saw what you saw. I'm just wondering about the intent of
the manufacturer. I could imagine that someone thought of the idea of
toy miniatures of various household items like vacuums, phones, lawn
mowers.) Then let's say they discovered that they weren't selling, and
they needed a new marketing idea. I can picture a genius saying "what
if we sell them as gag gifts?" The idea would be that everyone would
know it's ridiculous to assume that only females operate vacuum cleaners
so a woman might get one with the "for girls only" label on the box and
get it for her fiance. They'd both laugh about it. Or a man who does
do housework might get it for his wife. It's pretty funny when you
think about it.


--Lia

Julia wrote on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:56:56 -0500:

JA> James Silverton wrote:
??>>
??>> The battle for equality is not won yet :-) While looking
??>> for a birthday present for my granddaughter, I came across
??>> a line of toys with a brand name, "For Girls Only". They
??>> were toy reproductions of various well-known vacuum
??>> cleaners!

JA> This is so unbelievable that I'm inclined not to believe
JA> it. I mean, I believe you saw what you saw. I'm just
JA> wondering about the intent of the manufacturer. I could
JA> imagine that someone thought of the idea of toy miniatures
JA> of various household items like vacuums, phones, lawn
JA> mowers.) Then let's say they discovered that they weren't
JA> selling, and they needed a new marketing idea. I can
JA> picture a genius saying "what if we sell them as gag
JA> gifts?" The idea would be that everyone would know it's
JA> ridiculous to assume that only females operate vacuum
JA> cleaners so a woman might get one with the "for girls only"
JA> label on the box and get it for her fiance. They'd both
JA> laugh about it. Or a man who does do housework might get
JA> it for his wife. It's pretty funny when you think about
JA> it.

I regret to say the story is for real! I did not look closely to
see what was the originating company or country but I'll try to
remember to look tomorrow.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>
> Oh good lord! What company thinks every little girl dreams of owning a
> vacuum cleaner? What a throwback to the days of the Easy Bake Oven!

Hey, EZ-Bakes are still alive and well. We gave our 5 yo one for her
birthday last month. She loves it!

She also loves vacuuming (so does our 2 yo nephew .

Mary

On Feb 15, 12:24 pm, "James Silverton" >
wrote:

> The battle for equality is not won yet :-) While looking for a
> birthday present for my granddaughter, I came across a line of
> toys with a brand name, "For Girls Only". They were toy
> reproductions of various well-known vacuum cleaners!
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland

When I was a kid, I had those wood blocks, some pre-Lego snap together
plastic blocks, dump trucks, dolls, books and tools. Today, I like
cooking, sewing, woodworking, and minor mechanical and electrical work/
repairs.

Dad figured I needed my own set, after asking him one time what "that"
tool was. Upon learning it was a wire cutter, he had to remove it
from my grubby little paws to keep me from snipping the wires on the
thing he was working on. A few mornings later, when i awoke and he
was getting dressed for work, I tried those wire cutters on the wire
leading to a lamp.... fortunately, they had insulated handles or I
would probably not be here to tell the tale.<G>

maxine in ri

Michael \"Dog3\" wrote:

>
>
> One thing I know for sure about equality... When it comes to shoveling
> horse shit there are no gender boundaries

lol. At the stable where I ride the stables are cleaned by girls. There
is a high turnover rate. They ltake the job because they want to be around
horses, but they soon learn that mucking out stables means shovelling a
lot of shit.

BTW... I am doing my best to get guys involved in riding. I talked the
fathe rof one of the students into taking lessons himself, and he liked it
so much that he talked his brother into taking lessons. So now there are 4
guys and about 40 females.

MareCat wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Oh good lord! What company thinks every little girl dreams of owning a
>> vacuum cleaner? What a throwback to the days of the Easy Bake Oven!
>
> Hey, EZ-Bakes are still alive and well. We gave our 5 yo one for her
> birthday last month. She loves it!
>
> She also loves vacuuming (so does our 2 yo nephew .
>
> Mary
>
>
I saw on TV that some Easy-Bake ovens imported from China have
manufacturing flaws (sharp edged sheet metal?) which could cause a
child's hand to be trapped inside the oven, should that child reach
inside for some reason.
> http://www.hasbro.com/easybake/defau...ge=News/Recall

"Mark Allread" > wrote in message
t...
> MareCat wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Oh good lord! What company thinks every little girl dreams of owning a
>>> vacuum cleaner? What a throwback to the days of the Easy Bake Oven!
>>
>> Hey, EZ-Bakes are still alive and well. We gave our 5 yo one for her
>> birthday last month. She loves it!
>>
>> She also loves vacuuming (so does our 2 yo nephew .
>>
>> Mary
> I saw on TV that some Easy-Bake ovens imported from China have
> manufacturing flaws (sharp edged sheet metal?) which could cause a child's
> hand to be trapped inside the oven, should that child reach inside for
> some reason.
>> http://www.hasbro.com/easybake/defau...ge=News/Recall

Thanks for the info! I always provide close supervision and guidance
whenever she uses her oven, and she's *extremely* cautious around ovens and
other kitchen appliances.

Mary

On Feb 15, 2:02 pm, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> wrote:
> > It's the second letter, about elderly singles clubs.
>
> >http://www.contracostatimes.com/living/ci_8270178
>
> I almost got the feeling that an editor mismatched Martin's answer to
> another question. What she said about not bean counting and men and
> women not having to spend equal time doing the same tasks made sense--
> but it had nothing to do with the question that was asked.
>
> A better answer would have been for the women to ask themselves how much
> they like this guy and whether they mind his mooching. If they want to
> take him on as a lonely, non-contributing, charity case, fine. Do so;
> give yourself a pat for doing a good deed, and stop complaining. If
> they'd rather get rid of the moocher, that's fine too. Be assertive.
> Stop letting him know the where and when of potlucks. Stop allowing
> themselves to be manipulated into allowing him to invite himself over to
> family dinners. Just Say No.
>
> If the answer is somewhere in between, maybe they enjoy his company
> somewhat, then ask upfront for a monetary contribution. Say he's
> welcome to attend the potlucks, but he must pay the hostess $10 for each
> one. Whatever. But don't turn a problem with a moocher into an essay
> on gender equality.
>
> --Lia

Well said. Want to send that to her?

Lenona.

Julia wrote on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:56:56 -0500:

JA> James Silverton wrote:
??>>
??>> The battle for equality is not won yet :-) While looking
??>> for a birthday present for my granddaughter, I came across
??>> a line of toys with a brand name, "For Girls Only". They
??>> were toy reproductions of various well-known vacuum
??>> cleaners!

JA> This is so unbelievable that I'm inclined not to believe
JA> it. I mean, I believe you saw what you saw. I'm just
JA> wondering about the intent of the manufacturer. I could

I said I'd look again and it does seem that toy (about half
size) vacuum cleaners are a popular item in the little girls'
sections of good toy stores. They are not all marked "Girls
Only"; that was from PlayGo in Honk Kong. There was also a very
good reproduction of the Dyson Vacuum sold by Cassidy and made
in China. That's not the lot!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

wrote:
>
> Well said. Want to send that to her?


Thanks for the compliment, but I'd never considered writing to my advice
column hero. I hold her in awe.


--Lia

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:55:00 -0500, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

wrote:
>>
>> Well said. Want to send that to her?
>
>
>Thanks for the compliment, but I'd never considered writing to my advice
>column hero. I hold her in awe.
>
>
>--Lia

miss manners is a very funny lady.

your pal,
blake