I was just going into a supermarket today when I heard two cars
beeping. They were backing out simultaneously and just saw each
other in time to avoid a collision. That happens but the next
was weird since each seemed to consider that they had the right
of way and wouldn't yield or go back so they beeped at each
other for (really) two minutes until one started to make small
moves back and forward with assistance from a gathering crowd.
They beeped at each other after each move but finally there was
room to go. Appropriately, both parking spaces were handicapped
ones but I wonder if it was two cases of incipient Alzheimer's
and really rather sad.



James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:uC1wj.20633$T8.2010@trnddc03...
>I was just going into a supermarket today when I heard two cars
> beeping. They were backing out simultaneously and just saw each
> other in time to avoid a collision. That happens but the next
> was weird since each seemed to consider that they had the right
> of way and wouldn't yield or go back so they beeped at each
> other for (really) two minutes until one started to make small
> moves back and forward with assistance from a gathering crowd.
> They beeped at each other after each move but finally there was
> room to go. Appropriately, both parking spaces were handicapped
> ones but I wonder if it was two cases of incipient Alzheimer's
> and really rather sad.
>
>
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland



Cabin fever, perhaps? Men or women?

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:02:50 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

>I was just going into a supermarket today when I heard two cars
>beeping. They were backing out simultaneously and just saw each
>other in time to avoid a collision. That happens but the next
>was weird since each seemed to consider that they had the right
>of way and wouldn't yield or go back so they beeped at each
>other for (really) two minutes until one started to make small
>moves back and forward with assistance from a gathering crowd.
>They beeped at each other after each move but finally there was
>room to go. Appropriately, both parking spaces were handicapped
>ones but I wonder if it was two cases of incipient Alzheimer's
>and really rather sad.
>

I think that as far as the law goes: the car that's backing up is
always wrong - but two wrongs don't make a right. Maybe the crowd saw
which one actually started to back out first and was helping that one.

I've never had a backing up incident, but I clearly remember waiting
*forever* for a car to back out of a parking spot only to have a car
behind me go around as if passing and go directly into the space as
soon as the backing up car cleared it. ZOOOM

Believe me, this is not a story of a dottering old fool... it happened
when I was in my twenties.

In any case, your story sounds like two handicapped bullies to me (or
more likely, they were drivers of handicapped people) - but you didn't
say how many were in each car. Don't forget that handicapped
stickers/placards and handicapped parking spaces are regularly abused.

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"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:uC1wj.20633$T8.2010@trnddc03...
>I was just going into a supermarket today when I heard two cars
> beeping. They were backing out simultaneously and just saw each
> other in time to avoid a collision. That happens but the next
> was weird since each seemed to consider that they had the right
> of way and wouldn't yield or go back so they beeped at each
> other for (really) two minutes until one started to make small
> moves back and forward with assistance from a gathering crowd.
> They beeped at each other after each move but finally there was
> room to go. Appropriately, both parking spaces were handicapped
> ones but I wonder if it was two cases of incipient Alzheimer's
> and really rather sad.

That is sad. A couple of months ago, I was backing out at the grocery store
when another car started to back up and could have possibly hit me. I
honked. They stopped, turned around looked at me and began to back up more.
I honked again. They repeated the procedure. I laid on the horn. People
turned around and looked. Car still continued to back up rather quickly. I
had to rocket back into my parking space or I would have been hit. I
couldn't believe it and neither could my daughter. Left me shaking because
I had to move so quickly to avoid being hit.

Julie Bove wrote:

>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> news:uC1wj.20633$T8.2010@trnddc03...
>>I was just going into a supermarket today when I heard two cars
>> beeping. They were backing out simultaneously and just saw each
>> other in time to avoid a collision. That happens but the next
>> was weird since each seemed to consider that they had the right
>> of way and wouldn't yield or go back so they beeped at each
>> other for (really) two minutes until one started to make small
>> moves back and forward with assistance from a gathering crowd.
>> They beeped at each other after each move but finally there was
>> room to go. Appropriately, both parking spaces were handicapped
>> ones but I wonder if it was two cases of incipient Alzheimer's
>> and really rather sad.
>
> That is sad. A couple of months ago, I was backing out at the grocery store
> when another car started to back up and could have possibly hit me. I
> honked. They stopped, turned around looked at me and began to back up more.
> I honked again. They repeated the procedure. I laid on the horn. People
> turned around and looked. Car still continued to back up rather quickly. I
> had to rocket back into my parking space or I would have been hit. I
> couldn't believe it and neither could my daughter. Left me shaking because
> I had to move so quickly to avoid being hit.

Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?

A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.

http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg

Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"? The other street not stopping is
the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
course then it's not a default situation).

Are we devolving into generations that think a stop sign always means
*everybody* stops -- along with not being able to park without radar and
not being able to shift a manual transmission?


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"Blinky the Shark" > wrote in message
news
> Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
>> news:uC1wj.20633$T8.2010@trnddc03...
>>>I was just going into a supermarket today when I heard two cars
>>> beeping. They were backing out simultaneously and just saw each
>>> other in time to avoid a collision. That happens but the next
>>> was weird since each seemed to consider that they had the right
>>> of way and wouldn't yield or go back so they beeped at each
>>> other for (really) two minutes until one started to make small
>>> moves back and forward with assistance from a gathering crowd.
>>> They beeped at each other after each move but finally there was
>>> room to go. Appropriately, both parking spaces were handicapped
>>> ones but I wonder if it was two cases of incipient Alzheimer's
>>> and really rather sad.
>>
>> That is sad. A couple of months ago, I was backing out at the grocery
>> store
>> when another car started to back up and could have possibly hit me. I
>> honked. They stopped, turned around looked at me and began to back up
>> more.
>> I honked again. They repeated the procedure. I laid on the horn.
>> People
>> turned around and looked. Car still continued to back up rather quickly.
>> I
>> had to rocket back into my parking space or I would have been hit. I
>> couldn't believe it and neither could my daughter. Left me shaking
>> because
>> I had to move so quickly to avoid being hit.
>
> Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?
>
> A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg
>
> Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
> LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"? The other street not stopping is
> the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
> course then it's not a default situation).
>
> Are we devolving into generations that think a stop sign always means
> *everybody* stops -- along with not being able to park without radar and
> not being able to shift a manual transmission?

That is a new one! Perhaps they had problems there with cars thinking it
was a four way stop? I have been guilty of doing that. Stopping when I
don't have to. I even do it at the same grocery store I mentioned above.
They have stop signs going in one direction but not the other.

"Blinky the Shark" > wrote

> A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg
>
> Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
> LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"?

That's crazy. Maybe they are having problems with people
going through that particular stop sign.

> The other street not stopping is
> the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
> course then it's not a default situation).

Those 4-way stops are a menace. Same with people who
don't take their right of way, gesturing people ahead. But
that's another matter.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Blinky the Shark" > wrote
>
>> A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>>
>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg
>>
>> Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
>> LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"?
>
> That's crazy. Maybe they are having problems with people
> going through that particular stop sign.
>
>> The other street not stopping is
>> the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
>> course then it's not a default situation).
>
> Those 4-way stops are a menace. Same with people who
> don't take their right of way, gesturing people ahead. But
> that's another matter.
>
> nancy
>


I hate it when people break the rules by trying to be nice! Follow the
damned rules. They're in the driver's manual.

Blinky the Shark > wrote:

:Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?

:A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.

They're used where drivers might expect it to be a four way stop. For
instance, you might find one on a county road where it intersects a
highway. The last 23 intersections have all been four way stops, and
suddenly, you've got cross traffic going 70 miles an hour. That's a
recipe for fatal T-bone collisions.

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> Those 4-way stops are a menace. Same with people who
>> don't take their right of way, gesturing people ahead. But
>> that's another matter.

> I hate it when people break the rules by trying to be nice! Follow the
> damned rules. They're in the driver's manual.

I know they're trying to be nice, but if I went when people
waved me to go I'd be dead from the car flying up past them.
Just follow the rules, it makes for confusion and mayhem when
you break them. It's not about being nice.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>
>>> Those 4-way stops are a menace. Same with people who
>>> don't take their right of way, gesturing people ahead. But
>>> that's another matter.
>
>> I hate it when people break the rules by trying to be nice! Follow the
>> damned rules. They're in the driver's manual.
>
> I know they're trying to be nice, but if I went when people
> waved me to go I'd be dead from the car flying up past them.
> Just follow the rules, it makes for confusion and mayhem when
> you break them. It's not about being nice.
>
> nancy
>


It is kind of strange though: The person on the right is supposed to go
first. Great, unless everyone arrives at the stop signs at the same moment.
When that happens, I look to see if everyone's eyes are scanning the
intersection. There's always one who seems to be looking down at their lap.
That's the one who gonna go, and then horns will start honking. That's the
driver who needs to be dragged out their car, shot dead, and thrown in a
ditch. :-) You know they're gonna kill someone soon.

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote

> It is kind of strange though: The person on the right is supposed to go
> first. Great, unless everyone arrives at the stop signs at the same
> moment. When that happens, I look to see if everyone's eyes are scanning
> the intersection. There's always one who seems to be looking down at their
> lap. That's the one who gonna go, and then horns will start honking.
> That's the driver who needs to be dragged out their car, shot dead, and
> thrown in a ditch. :-) You know they're gonna kill someone soon.

That's why I said those 4 Way stops are ridiculous. You get one
cautious person who is afraid to go, then everyone else decides
I guess I should go. Stupid.

nancy

On Feb 23, 9:32 pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> I know they're trying to be nice, but if I went when people
> waved me to go I'd be dead from the car flying up past them.
> Just follow the rules, it makes for confusion and mayhem when
> you break them. It's not about being nice.

Try doing that on a cargo bicycle! Happened to me just this afternoon,
most recently. I ws going down the base leg of a "false-T"
intersection, intending to go straight into the parking lot on the far
side.Guy to my right had the r.o.w. but waved me on. I no sooner shook
my head "No" when a car from the left side went straight through
without actually stopping at all.

Here's another parking lot story.
I noticed someone about to back out of a spot on my left, so I put on
the turn signal and waited on the right side of the lane I was in.
Someone pulls up behind me. Decides they don't want to wait for me to
pull into the parking spot once its vacant. They started to pass me on
the left at a higher rate of speed than one should use in a parking
lot. The person backing out of the parking spot saw me waiting for the
spot and figured the coast was clear and the person backed out and
they rammed into each other.
The guy who had been behind me was enraged, he was the first to get
the police on the phone. He was in a rush, this was an inconvenience,
and so forth. The person who was in the car that was backing out asked
me to stay as a witness, which I was happy to do. The person backing
out got a warning--they really should have looked twice before backing
out, but the moron who passed me got a ticket for failure to yield and
a few other things and his insurance company got to pay for the damage
to both cars.




On Feb 23, 7:18*pm, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:02:50 GMT, "James Silverton"
>
> > wrote:
> >I was just going into a supermarket today when I heard two cars
> >beeping. They were backing out simultaneously and just saw each
> >other in time to avoid a collision. That happens but the next
> >was weird since each seemed to consider that they had the right
> >of way and wouldn't yield or go back so they beeped at each
> >other for (really) two minutes until one started to make small
> >moves back and forward with assistance from a gathering crowd.
> >They beeped at each other after each move but finally there was
> >room to go. Appropriately, both parking spaces were handicapped
> >ones but I wonder if it was two cases of incipient Alzheimer's
> >and really rather sad.
>
> I think that as far as the law goes: the car that's backing up is
> always wrong - but two wrongs don't make a right. *Maybe the crowd saw
> which one actually started to back out first and was helping that one.
>
> I've never had a backing up incident, but I clearly remember waiting
> *forever* for a car to back out of a parking spot only to have a car
> behind me go around as if passing and go directly into the space as
> soon as the backing up car cleared it. *ZOOOM
>
> Believe me, this is not a story of a dottering old fool... it happened
> when I was in my twenties.
>
> In any case, your story sounds like two handicapped bullies to me (or
> more likely, they were drivers of handicapped people) - but you didn't
> say how many were in each car. *Don't forget that handicapped
> stickers/placards and handicapped parking spaces are regularly abused.
>
> --
> See return address to reply by email
> remove the smile first

Nancy Young wrote:

>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote
>
>> It is kind of strange though: The person on the right is supposed to go
>> first. Great, unless everyone arrives at the stop signs at the same
>> moment. When that happens, I look to see if everyone's eyes are scanning
>> the intersection. There's always one who seems to be looking down at their
>> lap. That's the one who gonna go, and then horns will start honking.
>> That's the driver who needs to be dragged out their car, shot dead, and
>> thrown in a ditch. :-) You know they're gonna kill someone soon.
>
> That's why I said those 4 Way stops are ridiculous. You get one
> cautious person who is afraid to go, then everyone else decides
> I guess I should go. Stupid.

Sounds like we could also call them "3-Way Goes".


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David Scheidt wrote:

> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>
> :Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?
>
> :A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>
> They're used where drivers might expect it to be a four way stop. For
> instance, you might find one on a county road where it intersects a
> highway. The last 23 intersections have all been four way stops, and
> suddenly, you've got cross traffic going 70 miles an hour. That's a
> recipe for fatal T-bone collisions.

As for the signs in my link: I took that photo yesterday in a residential
neighborhood; neither street is a main road; they're both just house-lined
inner-neighborhood streets.


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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:40:58 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

>Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?
>
>A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>
>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg
>
>Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
>LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"? The other street not stopping is
>the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
>course then it's not a default situation).
>
>Are we devolving into generations that think a stop sign always means
>*everybody* stops -- along with not being able to park without radar and
>not being able to shift a manual transmission?

I have something similar near me. It's a "T" stop. When you get to a
certain intersection, you have a stop sign and traffic to the left has
one too (pretty normal)... but traffic to the right has their stop
sign about 100 feet to the right. They stop and go at their sign and
they keep on going - don't your dare get in their way. Heh, I'm an
Alpha when I have the right of way too.

Most newbies to the intersection expect it to work the way regular T
intersections work. Oh NO, not this one! So I guess extra the
signage was put there because of the number of collisions. Think of
it as our tax dollars at work.

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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:14:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>The person backing
>out got a warning--they really should have looked twice before backing
>out, but the moron who passed me got a ticket for failure to yield and
>a few other things and his insurance company got to pay for the damage
>to both cars.


Thanks, I love stories with happy endings! The police in my city
don't respond to accidents like that.




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sf wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:40:58 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> > wrote:
>
>>Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?
>>
>>A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>>
>>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg
>>
>>Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
>>LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"? The other street not stopping is
>>the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
>>course then it's not a default situation).
>>
>>Are we devolving into generations that think a stop sign always means
>>*everybody* stops -- along with not being able to park without radar and
>>not being able to shift a manual transmission?
>
> I have something similar near me. It's a "T" stop. When you get to a
> certain intersection, you have a stop sign and traffic to the left has
> one too (pretty normal)... but traffic to the right has their stop
> sign about 100 feet to the right. They stop and go at their sign and

You mean it's that far back from the corner?

> they keep on going - don't your dare get in their way. Heh, I'm an
> Alpha when I have the right of way too.

Sounds like their sign is meant to allow them to get up to ramming speed
by the time they reach the corner.


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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:19:35 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

>sf wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:40:58 -0800, Blinky the Shark
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?
>>>
>>>A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>>>
>>>http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg
>>>
>>>Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
>>>LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"? The other street not stopping is
>>>the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
>>>course then it's not a default situation).
>>>
>>>Are we devolving into generations that think a stop sign always means
>>>*everybody* stops -- along with not being able to park without radar and
>>>not being able to shift a manual transmission?
>>
>> I have something similar near me. It's a "T" stop. When you get to a
>> certain intersection, you have a stop sign and traffic to the left has
>> one too (pretty normal)... but traffic to the right has their stop
>> sign about 100 feet to the right. They stop and go at their sign and
>
>You mean it's that far back from the corner?

Yes. There is a street that is to their right that T's into the main
street at that point. Probably a Big Wig or friend/relative of said
Big Wig used that intersection at some point. You know how it goes in
a City.
>
>> they keep on going - don't your dare get in their way. Heh, I'm an
>> Alpha when I have the right of way too.
>
>Sounds like their sign is meant to allow them to get up to ramming speed
>by the time they reach the corner.

It's kinda rude, but it works. I certainly look carefully at
oncoming traffic to the *right* when I'm at that intersection.

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In article >, sf wrote:


> In any case, your story sounds like two handicapped bullies to me (or
> more likely, they were drivers of handicapped people) - but you didn't
> say how many were in each car. Don't forget that handicapped
> stickers/placards and handicapped parking spaces are regularly abused.

We've all heard stories about people using other's handicapped id.
Still, it's pretty hard to tell. My sister and uncle both have
handicapped placards. They are both able to get around just fine.
However, they both drive my father around. He's able to get around
fine, for a short distance. He's 91, with two artificial knees that
aren't working as well as they used to. Still, when one of them pulls
into the handicapped spot with my father and they get out, it doesn't
really look like they need the spot. But if they park far away, by the
time they get to the store, my father can't walk any more. They have to
find a seat so he can rest. Sometimes it isn't easy to find a seat, and
he can't just sit anywhere, since my sister isn't strong enough to get
him up from a seat that is too low. She asked if I wanted to borrow the
id, since I'm taking dad to see my brother and family. No, I'll just
have my brother drop us off in front of the store while my brother
parks. You can't do that with just dad and a driver. Dad has senile
dementia, and doesn't remember anything in the short term. If you drop
him off in front of the store by himself, you can count on him not being
there when you get there. There's no way to tell which way he went. He
never has any idea at all where he is, or how he got there.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, sf wrote:
>
>
>> In any case, your story sounds like two handicapped bullies to me (or
>> more likely, they were drivers of handicapped people) - but you didn't
>> say how many were in each car. Don't forget that handicapped
>> stickers/placards and handicapped parking spaces are regularly abused.
>
> We've all heard stories about people using other's handicapped id.
> Still, it's pretty hard to tell. My sister and uncle both have
> handicapped placards. They are both able to get around just fine.
> However, they both drive my father around. He's able to get around
> fine, for a short distance. He's 91, with two artificial knees that
> aren't working as well as they used to. Still, when one of them pulls
> into the handicapped spot with my father and they get out, it doesn't
> really look like they need the spot. But if they park far away, by the
> time they get to the store, my father can't walk any more. They have to
> find a seat so he can rest. Sometimes it isn't easy to find a seat, and
> he can't just sit anywhere, since my sister isn't strong enough to get
> him up from a seat that is too low. She asked if I wanted to borrow the
> id, since I'm taking dad to see my brother and family. No, I'll just
> have my brother drop us off in front of the store while my brother
> parks. You can't do that with just dad and a driver. Dad has senile
> dementia, and doesn't remember anything in the short term. If you drop
> him off in front of the store by himself, you can count on him not being
> there when you get there. There's no way to tell which way he went. He
> never has any idea at all where he is, or how he got there.

My problem is I can't walk very far or stand for very long. I haven't tried
to get a handicapped sticker because too many times I have seen people being
harassed for parking in there when they don't appear to be handicapped. I
can just envision myself having to stand there and explain what all my
medical problems are while my legs are locking up on my from standing in one
spot for too long. So I just hope for the best, and most of the time I am
able to get a spot next to the handicapped or fairly close.

Would be nice in some instances though like going to the fair. Not that I
think I will be going there again any time too soon. Once through the
gates it is hard for me to get around. I spend my time looking from seat to
seat and the amount of walking I have to do there leaves me laid up for a
couple of weeks afterwards.

On Feb 23, 11:53*pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article >, sf wrote:
> >Don't forget that handicapped
> > stickers/placards and handicapped parking spaces are regularly abused.
>
> We've all heard stories about people using other's handicapped id. *
>
>
I don't mind people having the handicap stickers/placards/plates at
all. There are some who truly need to be parking in those spaces.
Then there's a girl I work with who's aunt is a deaf mute and the aunt
has a placard to park in those places. Yes, she is 'handicapped' but
it has nothing to do with her ability to walk. She's a huge fan of
yard sales and flea markets and never misses one.

In article <SX7wj.113$JU3.82@trndny04>,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, sf wrote:
> >
> >
> >> In any case, your story sounds like two handicapped bullies to me (or
> >> more likely, they were drivers of handicapped people) - but you didn't
> >> say how many were in each car. Don't forget that handicapped
> >> stickers/placards and handicapped parking spaces are regularly abused.
> >
> > We've all heard stories about people using other's handicapped id.
> > Still, it's pretty hard to tell. My sister and uncle both have
> > handicapped placards. They are both able to get around just fine.
> > However, they both drive my father around. He's able to get around
> > fine, for a short distance. He's 91, with two artificial knees that
> > aren't working as well as they used to. Still, when one of them pulls
> > into the handicapped spot with my father and they get out, it doesn't
> > really look like they need the spot. But if they park far away, by the
> > time they get to the store, my father can't walk any more. They have to
> > find a seat so he can rest. Sometimes it isn't easy to find a seat, and
> > he can't just sit anywhere, since my sister isn't strong enough to get
> > him up from a seat that is too low. She asked if I wanted to borrow the
> > id, since I'm taking dad to see my brother and family. No, I'll just
> > have my brother drop us off in front of the store while my brother
> > parks. You can't do that with just dad and a driver. Dad has senile
> > dementia, and doesn't remember anything in the short term. If you drop
> > him off in front of the store by himself, you can count on him not being
> > there when you get there. There's no way to tell which way he went. He
> > never has any idea at all where he is, or how he got there.
>
> My problem is I can't walk very far or stand for very long. I haven't tried
> to get a handicapped sticker because too many times I have seen people being
> harassed for parking in there when they don't appear to be handicapped. I
> can just envision myself having to stand there and explain what all my
> medical problems are while my legs are locking up on my from standing in one
> spot for too long. So I just hope for the best, and most of the time I am
> able to get a spot next to the handicapped or fairly close.

There is a proper etiquette for complaints about illegitimate use of
handicapped parking. It doesn't ever involve complaining directly to
the person, as there is no way to verify anything. There are records
somewhere, and if the person in the car (or one of the people) doesn't
match who the id is for, then a citation can be issued by the police
officer who responded to the complaint. I believe in California it is
US$270. That's an awfully expensive parking spot to save a few steps.


> Would be nice in some instances though like going to the fair. Not that I
> think I will be going there again any time too soon. Once through the
> gates it is hard for me to get around. I spend my time looking from seat to
> seat and the amount of walking I have to do there leaves me laid up for a
> couple of weeks afterwards.

Have you thought about a wheelchair or walker? I believe some walkers
have built-in seats. Either way, you can always find a seat, since you
brought it with you.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article . net>,
Blinky the Shark > wrote:


> Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not noticed it?
>
> A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg


There're a couple not far from my house. They've been there some time,
judging from the wear, but I had never noticed them because I never
drove that way. I've been walking to my medical office building
sometimes, due to lack of vehicles at my house, and noticed these signs
because I walk on the side roads, since they are much more pleasant for
walking.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article <29088267-bdcc-4c7b-83f3-3848b9c55a18@
41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, says...
> On Feb 23, 9:32 pm, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> > I know they're trying to be nice, but if I went when people
> > waved me to go I'd be dead from the car flying up past them.
> > Just follow the rules, it makes for confusion and mayhem when
> > you break them. It's not about being nice.
>
> Try doing that on a cargo bicycle! Happened to me just this afternoon,
> most recently. I ws going down the base leg of a "false-T"
> intersection, intending to go straight into the parking lot on the far
> side.Guy to my right had the r.o.w. but waved me on. I no sooner shook
> my head "No" when a car from the left side went straight through
> without actually stopping at all.
>

I've seen similar behavior when I'm out walking about. A car will stop
for me at a light but I can see the nitwit coming up on the left so I'll
just wave them on. This turns into a standoff of sorts with me making
wild "go ahead" motions to the car that stopped.

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "Blinky the Shark" > wrote
>
> > A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.

> That's crazy. Maybe they are having problems with people
> going through that particular stop sign.

Perhaps, although it does say "STOP". I suspect it is people stopping
(or at least slowing down), but after seeing cars coming along the other
street, assuming that they will stop. By the time the other driver (the
one with no stop sign) realizes what is happening, it is too late to
avert an accident.


> > The other street not stopping is
> > the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
> > course then it's not a default situation).
>
> Those 4-way stops are a menace.

They don't seem to be a problem here. Perhaps it is because they are so
popular that people have gotten used to them?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Blinky the Shark" > wrote
>
>> A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross street don't stop.
>>
>> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg
>>
>> Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant "STOP", not "STOP
>> LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"?
>
> That's crazy. Maybe they are having problems with people
> going through that particular stop sign.
>
>> The other street not stopping is
>> the default, innit? Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of
>> course then it's not a default situation).
>
> Those 4-way stops are a menace. Same with people who
> don't take their right of way, gesturing people ahead. But
> that's another matter.
>
> nancy
I was waiting at the end of a small road that leads to/from a restaurant a
few days ago. The (two lane) cross-street is busy since Hwy 21 is just down
at the corner stop-light. There were two cars ahead of me, waiting their
turn. Someone on the cross-street stopped to let us pull out from this
small road. Okay, that's nice and all but you have the right of way. Don't
you see those 25 cars lined up behind you who also have the right of way?!
Don't do that unless you're the only one on the road.

Jill

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article <SX7wj.113$JU3.82@trndny04>,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, sf wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> In any case, your story sounds like two handicapped bullies to me (or
>> >> more likely, they were drivers of handicapped people) - but you didn't
>> >> say how many were in each car. Don't forget that handicapped
>> >> stickers/placards and handicapped parking spaces are regularly abused.
>> >
>> > We've all heard stories about people using other's handicapped id.
>> > Still, it's pretty hard to tell. My sister and uncle both have
>> > handicapped placards. They are both able to get around just fine.
>> > However, they both drive my father around. He's able to get around
>> > fine, for a short distance. He's 91, with two artificial knees that
>> > aren't working as well as they used to. Still, when one of them pulls
>> > into the handicapped spot with my father and they get out, it doesn't
>> > really look like they need the spot. But if they park far away, by the
>> > time they get to the store, my father can't walk any more. They have
>> > to
>> > find a seat so he can rest. Sometimes it isn't easy to find a seat,
>> > and
>> > he can't just sit anywhere, since my sister isn't strong enough to get
>> > him up from a seat that is too low. She asked if I wanted to borrow
>> > the
>> > id, since I'm taking dad to see my brother and family. No, I'll just
>> > have my brother drop us off in front of the store while my brother
>> > parks. You can't do that with just dad and a driver. Dad has senile
>> > dementia, and doesn't remember anything in the short term. If you drop
>> > him off in front of the store by himself, you can count on him not
>> > being
>> > there when you get there. There's no way to tell which way he went.
>> > He
>> > never has any idea at all where he is, or how he got there.
>>
>> My problem is I can't walk very far or stand for very long. I haven't
>> tried
>> to get a handicapped sticker because too many times I have seen people
>> being
>> harassed for parking in there when they don't appear to be handicapped.
>> I
>> can just envision myself having to stand there and explain what all my
>> medical problems are while my legs are locking up on my from standing in
>> one
>> spot for too long. So I just hope for the best, and most of the time I
>> am
>> able to get a spot next to the handicapped or fairly close.
>
> There is a proper etiquette for complaints about illegitimate use of
> handicapped parking. It doesn't ever involve complaining directly to
> the person, as there is no way to verify anything. There are records
> somewhere, and if the person in the car (or one of the people) doesn't
> match who the id is for, then a citation can be issued by the police
> officer who responded to the complaint. I believe in California it is
> US$270. That's an awfully expensive parking spot to save a few steps.
>
>
>> Would be nice in some instances though like going to the fair. Not that
>> I
>> think I will be going there again any time too soon. Once through the
>> gates it is hard for me to get around. I spend my time looking from seat
>> to
>> seat and the amount of walking I have to do there leaves me laid up for a
>> couple of weeks afterwards.
>
> Have you thought about a wheelchair or walker? I believe some walkers
> have built-in seats. Either way, you can always find a seat, since you
> brought it with you.

I have a walker and *knock wood* I haven't had to use it for a while. It
actually wears me out to have to keep lifting it and setting it down again
and it's next to impossible to carry a purse or anything else when using it.
Plus it makes me walk extra slowly and that seems to tire my legs out even
more.

I tried a wheelchair. Due to my various medical problems the motion of it
makes me really sick to my stomach and I feel disoriented in it. I just
hope I never get bad enough to have to use one or I'll be a mess.

"itsjoannotjoann" > wrote in message
>
I don't mind people having the handicap stickers/placards/plates at
all. There are some who truly need to be parking in those spaces.
Then there's a girl I work with who's aunt is a deaf mute and the aunt
has a placard to park in those places. Yes, she is 'handicapped' but
it has nothing to do with her ability to walk. She's a huge fan of
yard sales and flea markets and never misses one.

You have to wonder about her doctor. You need a doctor to sign off on the
application and evidently hers is over liberal on the reasons for using
one. Unethical, IMO. She does not have a mobility problem.

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> My problem is I can't walk very far or stand for very long. I haven't
> tried to get a handicapped sticker because too many times I have seen
> people being harassed for parking in there when they don't appear to be
> handicapped. I can just envision myself having to stand there and explain
> what all my medical problems are while my legs are locking up on my from
> standing in one spot for too long. So I just hope for the best, and most
> of the time I am able to get a spot next to the handicapped or fairly
> close.

If you qualify, your doctor will fill out his section of the paperwork. Who
cares what other people think? Yes, the placards are abused but there are
plenty of people that appear to be healthy but cannot walk a distance for
some reason. I've seen people sneer at the fact that the handicapped person
had a nice car too.

Blinky the Shark > wrote in
news
> Hey, it this a new thing in signage, or have I just not
> noticed it?
>
> A stop sign with a subsign that says cars on the cross
> street don't stop.
>
> http://blinkynet.net/stuff/stop.jpg

i've never seen one of those. where do you live?

> Uh......for what, maybe 80 years now, hasn't STOP meant
> "STOP", not "STOP LIKE ALL OTHER DIRECTIONS ARE DOING"?
> The other street not stopping is the default, innit?
> Unless, of course a sign *states* "4-WAY" (but of course
> then it's not a default situation).

is it possible that the intersection was formerly a 4 way
stop, but changed recently to improve traffic flow?
it amazes me how many people don't understand the procedure
for a 4 way intersection anyway. it's not "I got here first!"

> Are we devolving into generations that think a stop sign
> always means *everybody* stops -- along with not being able
> to park without radar and not being able to shift a manual
> transmission?

i think it's more a generation that thinks everybody stops
except themselves, that passing on double yellow is fine if
you're in a hurry & the car in front is only going the speed
limit, and most traffic rules are just "suggestions".
what cars have parking radar? i've missed that. i have a
backup camera, but that's so i don't run over chickens in the
driveway... and i'm babying my manual tranny CR-V so i can
teach my kid to drive it in 7 years.

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

"Dan Abel" > wrote

> "Julie Bove" > wrote:

>> Would be nice in some instances though like going to the fair. Not that
>> I
>> think I will be going there again any time too soon. Once through the
>> gates it is hard for me to get around. I spend my time looking from seat
>> to
>> seat and the amount of walking I have to do there leaves me laid up for a
>> couple of weeks afterwards.
>
> Have you thought about a wheelchair or walker? I believe some walkers
> have built-in seats. Either way, you can always find a seat, since you
> brought it with you.

Or the previously mentioned granny cart with seat. Handy.
I could have used that at one time, for sure.

nancy

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
t...
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> My problem is I can't walk very far or stand for very long. I haven't
>> tried to get a handicapped sticker because too many times I have seen
>> people being harassed for parking in there when they don't appear to be
>> handicapped. I can just envision myself having to stand there and
>> explain what all my medical problems are while my legs are locking up on
>> my from standing in one spot for too long. So I just hope for the best,
>> and most of the time I am able to get a spot next to the handicapped or
>> fairly close.
>
> If you qualify, your doctor will fill out his section of the paperwork.
> Who cares what other people think? Yes, the placards are abused but there
> are plenty of people that appear to be healthy but cannot walk a distance
> for some reason. I've seen people sneer at the fact that the handicapped
> person had a nice car too.
A very close friend of mine was diagnosed with MS in her mid-30's. She
sometimes used a cane for balance, and because she tired easily, but wasn't
to the point of using one all the time yet. (She's been in a wheel chair
full time for some years now.) The doctor filled out the paperwork and she
had a handicapped placard so she didn't have to walk long distances to do
her shopping. On more than one occasion she reported being "yelled at" for
parking there. She also told me one day she was really having balance
problems but had left her cane at home. A woman in the grocery store saw
her stumble as she was reaching for an item on a shelf. She called her a
lush and told her to "go home and sleep it off"! Clueless witch.

Jill

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
t...
>
> "itsjoannotjoann" > wrote in message
>>
> I don't mind people having the handicap stickers/placards/plates at
> all. There are some who truly need to be parking in those spaces.
> Then there's a girl I work with who's aunt is a deaf mute and the aunt
> has a placard to park in those places. Yes, she is 'handicapped' but
> it has nothing to do with her ability to walk. She's a huge fan of
> yard sales and flea markets and never misses one.
>
> You have to wonder about her doctor. You need a doctor to sign off on the
> application and evidently hers is over liberal on the reasons for using
> one. Unethical, IMO. She does not have a mobility problem.
I have to agree, Ed. True, deafness is a handicap but it doesn't mean the
person gets to park closest to the front door of the shop.

Jill

jmcquown said...

> True, deafness is a handicap

Says you! Deafness is a benefit. I knew ASL! We could sign faster than you
can talk! Far more intelligent, except when they spoke out loud.

So they need vibration bed alarm clocks and light-blinking door bells!
They're not disabled!!!

Andy
--
OB Food: Orange Julius Caesar Salad Dressing

Plus, we could sign 200 feet apart without making a sound!!!

Andy

"jmcquown" > wrote

> A very close friend of mine was diagnosed with MS in her mid-30's. She
> sometimes used a cane for balance, and because she tired easily, but
> wasn't to the point of using one all the time yet. (She's been in a wheel
> chair full time for some years now.) The doctor filled out the paperwork
> and she had a handicapped placard so she didn't have to walk long
> distances to do her shopping. On more than one occasion she reported
> being "yelled at" for parking there. She also told me one day she was
> really having balance problems but had left her cane at home. A woman in
> the grocery store saw her stumble as she was reaching for an item on a
> shelf. She called her a lush and told her to "go home and sleep it off"!
> Clueless witch.

Oh, if there's anything to karma, she'll be paid back. No matter
what the problem was, she should keep her trap shut.

I think some of the meanness surrounding handicapped spots comes
from people's desperation to park as close as possible! to the front
door. I mean people with no handicap. I see them waiting for someone
to back out when there is an open space two spots away! People,
walking, try it, it's good for you. It will be time soon enough when it's
hard to walk far. Enjoy it while you can.

nancy

In article >, "jmcquown" > wrote:
[snip]
>A very close friend of mine was diagnosed with MS in her mid-30's. She
>sometimes used a cane for balance, and because she tired easily, but wasn't
>to the point of using one all the time yet. (She's been in a wheel chair
>full time for some years now.) The doctor filled out the paperwork and she
>had a handicapped placard so she didn't have to walk long distances to do
>her shopping. On more than one occasion she reported being "yelled at" for
>parking there. She also told me one day she was really having balance
>problems but had left her cane at home. A woman in the grocery store saw
>her stumble as she was reaching for an item on a shelf. She called her a
>lush and told her to "go home and sleep it off"! Clueless witch.

I assume that's a typo for "bitch"? :-)

Here in Oz (at least in Queensland anyway) there's another important
benefit to be had with a disabled sticker: You can park for free and
for however long you want in the normal metered parking bays. So if
you don't need wheelchair access to your vehicle you have a wide
choice of parking spots. (The special "disabled bays" here are rather
wider than normal to allow for people who need to get in and out of
wheelchairs or who use walking frames and similar.)

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

"Andy" <q> wrote in message ...
> jmcquown said...
>
>> True, deafness is a handicap
>
> Says you! Deafness is a benefit. I knew ASL! We could sign faster than you
> can talk! Far more intelligent, except when they spoke out loud.
>
> So they need vibration bed alarm clocks and light-blinking door bells!
> They're not disabled!!!
>
> Andy
> --
> OB Food: Orange Julius Caesar Salad Dressing


I believe the definition of deafness as a handicap has more to do with
allowances in the workplace than anything else. Flashing lights when fire
alarms sound, that sort of thing. I still haven't figured out why there's
braille on the drive-thru ATM buttons...

Jill