Kathleen wrote:

> Pixmaker wrote:
>
>> I recall reading (somewhere) that Orange Roughy was considered a
>> "nuisance fish" or a "junk fish" having no commercial value. In fact,
>> I believe Auistralians called it a "slimehead."
>>
>> And then-a name change!
>>
>> This may not be true but it's an interesting story.
>
> I've seen several stories on the plague of asian carp in local rivers.
> Not only do they out-compete indigenous species, they also have the
> alarming habit of going airborn when startled, with numerous collisions
> between boaters and large fish reported.
>
> The commercial market for these fish is pretty limited. One proposal
> was to sell them to the state prisons to feed to inmates. Another canny
> fellow suggested re-naming the species "silver salmon", at which point
> they'd be able to charge a fortune for them.

I've been eating basa lately -- great taste and $3.99US a pound as a
regular price at my mundane supermarket. I find that they're considered a
threat by USan catfish producers. The don't look like any catfish I've
seen, but apparently they've been marketed here as catfish (which they're
called in Viet Nam, from which they're imported). Politics aside, I
recommend them. Yum.


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Sky wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>
>> Miche wrote:
>>
>> > In article .net>,
>> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Lou wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I've got orange roughy thawing for dinner and I think I'd like
>> >> >> to deep fry them and make hush puppies.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not generally a tree-hugger and I rarely get preachy, but were you
>> >> > aware
>> >> > that orange roughy is endangered?
>> >>
>> >> Is there a "best source" you can provide for a list of endengered species?
>> >> What organization is actually the final authority on these? Or can
>> >> anybody that loves chihuahuas put up a website about their "endangered"
>> >> status and if enough people believe...really believe...they (the
>> >> chihuahuas!) will become so?
>> >
>> > Here's the New Zealand list:
>> >
>> > http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/best...cies/index.asp
>>
>> Thanks, Miche.
>>
>> It's interesting that while they rank it as one of the worst fish to use,
>> their warnings don't contain the word "endangered". This looks like more
>> of the grey area I found online before I asked for an actual authority on
>> endangered species -- like many of the casual warnings I found online.
>> Which is what prompted me to ask about an authority on "endangered
>> species".
>>
>> Wertz provided a link to a US governmental site that contains almost 600
>> endangered species around the world.
>>
>> --
>> Blinky
>
>
> And to confuse the issue even further, perhaps some fish get
> mislabeled. For example, a lot of 'red snapper' listed in sushi
> restaurants' menus tend to actually be 'talapia' and not even true red
> snapper. Whether or not it's the restaurant scamming their patrons or

I did not know that. But I just posted a reply to an article from
Kathleen that mentioned basa -- which apparently used to be marketed here
in the US as a kind of catfish, until the US catfish farmers got some kind
of protection for the name. Or maybe that was settled without the suit
going through. Or whatever.

> Sky, who's landlocked too far from any ocean

Blinky the Shark, who lives he
http://blinkynet.net/sharks/blinkysat.html
The flat grey area on the coast is Los Angeles.

blake murphy wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:23:12 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> > wrote:
>
>>Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>>
>>> Lou wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've got orange roughy thawing for dinner and I think I'd like to
>>>> deep fry them and make hush puppies.
>>>
>>> I'm not generally a tree-hugger and I rarely get preachy, but were you
>>> aware that orange roughy is endangered?
>>
>>Is there a "best source" you can provide for a list of endengered
>>species? What organization is actually the final authority on these? Or
>>can anybody that loves chihuahuas put up a website about their
>>"endangered" status and if enough people believe...really believe...they
>>(the chihuahuas!) will become so?
>
> it's hard to get bonobo meat these days.

Mmmmmm. Bonobo and harp seal stew.

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blake murphy wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:22:02 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> > wrote:
>
>>Sqwertz wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:02:43 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would think endangering/banning geoduck clams would come before
>>>>> roughy.
>>>>
>>>> http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/
>>>
>>> I'm sure land sharks are on the endangered list, too.
>>
>>Shhhhh. We categorically deny their existence......
>
> i don't mind land sharks, but i wish they'd stay out of the handicapped
> spaces.

Hey, if they have tags, they're just as entitled to them as you guys.

I mean, as long as they're driving.


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Michael "Dog3" wrote:

> Blinky the Shark > dropped this
> news > rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> I don't think the Monterey Aquarium, while probably knowledgeable, is
>> the authority on endangered species, which is what I requested.
>
> I've looked but can't seem to find orange roughy on any of the .gov sites
> I've visited. Is there even a comprehensive list out there? I don't know
> where else to look. Google has not been a real big help.

Same here. Thus my request, way upthread, for such a list. The best one
I've seen is the one Wertz came up with, which was the WWF's list of
several hundreds of worldwide actual Endangered Species. I bookmarked it.

<clickety>

Here ya go. It's the most comprehensive I've seen.

http://www.fws.gov/Endangered/wildlife.html

If that's one you've already seen and rejected, bummer. :-/


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Michael "Dog3" wrote:

> Sqwertz > dropped this
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> http://www.fws.gov/Endangered/wildlife.html
>>
>> -sw
>
> Thanks Wertz. I couldn't seem to find it.

Confirm. Snot there.

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On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:43:34 -0500, jmcquown wrote:

> I was very surprised to see orange roughy back on menus and in grocery
> stores. Every store I knew couldn't get it anymore because it was
> classified as endangered. Sorry, no citations, just what I recall from the
> news.

Yet you just said that's it's the only fish your mom ever buys.

--sw

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:34:39 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>
>> Sqwertz > dropped this
>> : in rec.food.cooking
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.fws.gov/Endangered/wildlife.html
>>
>> Thanks Wertz. I couldn't seem to find it.
>
> Confirm. Snot there.

I had it book-marked for some other project I was doing. It
probably gets mixed in with a bunch of other links when Googled,
making it hard to find.

-sw

In article >,
Pixmaker > wrote:

> I recall reading (somewhere) that Orange Roughy was considered a
> "nuisance fish" or a "junk fish" having no commercial value. In fact,
> I believe Auistralians called it a "slimehead."
>
> And then—a name change!
>
> This may not be true but it's an interesting story.

I doubt it's true.

Howevar, it is true that "Chilean Sea Bass" is known in the fisheries
industry as "Patagonian toothfish".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonian_toothfish

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Sqwertz wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:34:39 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>>
>>> Sqwertz > dropped this
>>> : in rec.food.cooking
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fws.gov/Endangered/wildlife.html
>>>
>>> Thanks Wertz. I couldn't seem to find it.
>>
>> Confirm. Snot there.
>
> I had it book-marked for some other project I was doing. It
> probably gets mixed in with a bunch of other links when Googled,
> making it hard to find.

Well, it's right here under Animals, now.

Along with: http://www.percolations.net/images/cooties.jpg

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In article .net>,
Blinky the Shark > wrote:

> Miche wrote:
>
> > In article .net>,
> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
> >
> >> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> >>
> >> > Lou wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I've got orange roughy thawing for dinner and I think I'd like
> >> >> to deep fry them and make hush puppies.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not generally a tree-hugger and I rarely get preachy, but were you
> >> > aware
> >> > that orange roughy is endangered?
> >>
> >> Is there a "best source" you can provide for a list of endengered species?
> >> What organization is actually the final authority on these? Or can
> >> anybody that loves chihuahuas put up a website about their "endangered"
> >> status and if enough people believe...really believe...they (the
> >> chihuahuas!) will become so?
> >
> > Here's the New Zealand list:
> >
> > http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/best...cies/index.asp
>
> Thanks, Miche.
>
> It's interesting that while they rank it as one of the worst fish to use,
> their warnings don't contain the word "endangered".

That's because "endangered" has a very specific meaning. The Forest and
Bird list talks about how close to sustainability the fishery is.
Notice there are no green (fully sustainable) fisheries in NZ waters.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:35:19 -0600, Kathleen wrote:

> I've seen several stories on the plague of asian carp in local rivers.
> Not only do they out-compete indigenous species, they also have the
> alarming habit of going airborn when startled, with numerous collisions
> between boaters and large fish reported.

Make it a sport: Snakehead Skeet.

=sw

Sqwertz wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:35:19 -0600, Kathleen wrote:
>
>
>>I've seen several stories on the plague of asian carp in local rivers.
>>Not only do they out-compete indigenous species, they also have the
>>alarming habit of going airborn when startled, with numerous collisions
>>between boaters and large fish reported.
>
>
> Make it a sport: Snakehead Skeet.

You laugh but try waterskiing when the river's low. I tolerate the idea
that there are fish in the same water that I'm in because we've come to
an understanding. Leave me alone and I won't bother you either. Being
pelted by flying carp disturbed by the boat's passage violates that
tacit agreement.

I could totally get behind an initiative to rid our waterways of these
exotic pests, up to and including offering a per pound bounty, even if
the fish are ultimately used only as pet food or fertilizer.

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:47:56 -0600, Kathleen wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:35:19 -0600, Kathleen wrote:
>>
>>>I've seen several stories on the plague of asian carp in local rivers.
>>>Not only do they out-compete indigenous species, they also have the
>>>alarming habit of going airborn when startled, with numerous collisions
>>>between boaters and large fish reported.
>>
>> Make it a sport: Snakehead Skeet.
>
> You laugh but try waterskiing when the river's low. I tolerate the idea
> that there are fish in the same water that I'm in because we've come to
> an understanding. Leave me alone and I won't bother you either. Being
> pelted by flying carp disturbed by the boat's passage violates that
> tacit agreement.

If a big, man-eating snake slithered through my house just for
the sport of it, well, I'd be pretty ****ed off too. I wouldn't
feel bad about it if bumped his head on the furniture in the
process.

The fish are just doing what they do naturally. I think you're
the one bothering them, not the other way around. That's why
they have gills and we have feet.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:47:56 -0600, Kathleen wrote:
>
>
>>Sqwertz wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:35:19 -0600, Kathleen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've seen several stories on the plague of asian carp in local rivers.
>>>>Not only do they out-compete indigenous species, they also have the
>>>>alarming habit of going airborn when startled, with numerous collisions
>>>>between boaters and large fish reported.
>>>
>>>Make it a sport: Snakehead Skeet.
>>
>>You laugh but try waterskiing when the river's low. I tolerate the idea
>>that there are fish in the same water that I'm in because we've come to
>>an understanding. Leave me alone and I won't bother you either. Being
>>pelted by flying carp disturbed by the boat's passage violates that
>>tacit agreement.
>
>
> If a big, man-eating snake slithered through my house just for
> the sport of it, well, I'd be pretty ****ed off too. I wouldn't
> feel bad about it if bumped his head on the furniture in the
> process.
>
> The fish are just doing what they do naturally. I think you're
> the one bothering them, not the other way around. That's why
> they have gills and we have feet.

They're escaped exotic pests that are substantially disturbing the local
ecosystem, of which I consider myself a minor part. I get along with
the locals just fine. The asian carp need to GTF out of my river. I'd
cheerfully feed every last one of them to who or whatever wants them.

And that goes double for zebra mussels.

In article >,
Janet Baraclough > wrote:

> The message >
> from Miche > contains these words:
>
>
> > Notice there are no green (fully sustainable) fisheries in NZ waters.
>
> You have some established "no take" zones though, where there;s no
> commercial fishing allowed so that stocks can recover.

Yep, including a big orange roughy fishery that's been closed for at
least this season, maybe more.

> (We're about to
> get one here, modelled on yours, and someone came to give a talk on the
> NZ experience).

Interesting. Did you find it useful?

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Tracy wrote:
>
> Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> Save all your skins and assorted fat globules from trimmed and
>> skinned chicken parts, then render them down. in a frying pan.
>> The crispy skins can be eaten as chicharrones, and the fat gets
>> saved for frying potatoes and other schmaltz uses. Way better
>> than bacon fat, IMO.

In our family, a sliced onion is added to the rendering fat.

>
> I have always wanted to try this...how do you keep the schmaltz? Would
> a coffee can in the fridge be ok? How long does it keep?

My mother kept it for approximately ever in the fridge in a
screw-top jar, or a margarine tub -- whatever she had handy. The
stuff is rendered down and strained of stuff that's likely to go
bad, so it really does last a very very long time.

(It's very easy to tell when fat has gone rancid, so just keep it
until it's gone, as we do, or until it's rancid.)

Serene

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:17:09 -0500, Tracy wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
>
>>
>> Save all your skins and assorted fat globules from trimmed and
>> skinned chicken parts, then render them down. in a frying pan.
>> The crispy skins can be eaten as chicharrones, and the fat gets
>> saved for frying potatoes and other schmaltz uses. Way better
>> than bacon fat, IMO.
>>
>> -sw
>
> I have always wanted to try this...how do you keep the schmaltz? Would
> a coffee can in the fridge be ok? How long does it keep?

I just keep it in the freezer in a margarine tub (of course you
want until it cools before putting it in plastic). When I need
some, It pops right out of the container and I whack off a chunk.
It breaks clean like a sold chunk of chocolate.

-sw

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:43:34 -0500, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> I was very surprised to see orange roughy back on menus and in grocery
>> stores. Every store I knew couldn't get it anymore because it was
>> classified as endangered. Sorry, no citations, just what I recall from
>> the
>> news.
>
> Yet you just said that's it's the only fish your mom ever buys.
>
> --sw

BULLSHIT. Ocean Perch is NOT Orange Roughy.

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:13:46 -0500, jmcquown wrote:

> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:43:34 -0500, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>> I was very surprised to see orange roughy back on menus and in grocery
>>> stores. Every store I knew couldn't get it anymore because it was
>>> classified as endangered. Sorry, no citations, just what I recall from
>>> the
>>> news.
>>
>> Yet you just said that's it's the only fish your mom ever buys.
>
> BULLSHIT.

Is that what you're cooking fore lunch today?

> Ocean Perch is NOT Orange Roughy.

Yes dear. I already admitted my mistake and I know you saw it.

-sw

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:35:42 GMT, "Randy Johnson" >
wrote:

>
>On 29-Feb-2008, blake murphy > wrote:
>
>
>> it's hard to get bonobo meat these days.
>
>You and Bobo have a lover's spat?

i used crisco for lubricant and he went off in a huff.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:59:02 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:22:02 -0800, Blinky the Shark
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Sqwertz wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:02:43 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would think endangering/banning geoduck clams would come before
>>>>>> roughy.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure land sharks are on the endangered list, too.
>>>
>>>Shhhhh. We categorically deny their existence......
>>
>> i don't mind land sharks, but i wish they'd stay out of the handicapped
>> spaces.
>
>Hey, if they have tags, they're just as entitled to them as you guys.
>
>I mean, as long as they're driving.

but there's collusion between them and their doctors. or is it
lawyers?

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:35:42 GMT, "Randy Johnson" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>On 29-Feb-2008, blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> it's hard to get bonobo meat these days.
>>
>>You and Bobo have a lover's spat?
>
> i used crisco for lubricant and he went off in a huff.

Hmph. I thought he could last a minute and a huff.

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blake murphy wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:59:02 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> > wrote:
>
>>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:22:02 -0800, Blinky the Shark
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sqwertz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:02:43 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would think endangering/banning geoduck clams would come before
>>>>>>> roughy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus/
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure land sharks are on the endangered list, too.
>>>>
>>>>Shhhhh. We categorically deny their existence......
>>>
>>> i don't mind land sharks, but i wish they'd stay out of the handicapped
>>> spaces.
>>
>>Hey, if they have tags, they're just as entitled to them as you guys.
>>
>>I mean, as long as they're driving.
>
> but there's collusion between them and their doctors. or is it
> lawyers?

It's all that *and* a bag of loan sharks.

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Blinky the Shark > wrote:

>Nancy Young wrote:

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_roughy

>I've been looking up orange roughys until I'm blue in the face; I'll
>assume that that's like all the others, which warn of a predicament for
>the species without using the established term "endangered".

It's on the "avoid" list at Seafood Watch:

http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/c...et.aspx?fid=54

Nancy's link shows that its conservation status is at the "vulnerable"
level of "threatened", which is one step below endangered.

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_status

for a definition of conservation status.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:

> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>
>>Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_roughy
>
>>I've been looking up orange roughys until I'm blue in the face; I'll
>>assume that that's like all the others, which warn of a predicament for
>>the species without using the established term "endangered".
>
> It's on the "avoid" list at Seafood Watch:
>
> http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/c...et.aspx?fid=54

Yes, that's been linked.

> Nancy's link shows that its conservation status is at the "vulnerable"
> level of "threatened", which is one step below endangered.

Right.

> See also:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_status
>
> for a definition of conservation status.

I didn't know there were two levels of "endangered". Thanks for that
link. Here's a recap of all the levels, in order:

Extinction
Extinct
Extinct in the Wild

Threatened
Critically Endangered
Endangered
Vulnerable
Threatened

Lower risk
Conservation Dependent
Near Threatened
Least Concern


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In article >,
Janet Baraclough > wrote:

> The message >
> from Miche > contains these words:
>
> > In article >,
> > Janet Baraclough > wrote:
>
> > > The message >
> > > from Miche > contains these words:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Notice there are no green (fully sustainable) fisheries in NZ waters.
> > >
> > > You have some established "no take" zones though, where there;s no
> > > commercial fishing allowed so that stocks can recover.
>
> > Yep, including a big orange roughy fishery that's been closed for at
> > least this season, maybe more.
>
> > > (We're about to
> > > get one here, modelled on yours, and someone came to give a talk on the
> > > NZ experience).
>
> > Interesting. Did you find it useful?
>
> Yes, it was inspirational and I think got some of the reluctant
> fishing boat owners onside.
>
> Here's the chap who came
>
> http://www.marine-reserves.org.nz/pages/ballintine.html

Probably the very best person you could have got. I'm pleased.

> here's the website of our NTZ, should be up and running by summer
>
> http://www.arrancoast.co.uk/

Oh, that's most excellent.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Miche > wrote:

> Janet Baraclough > wrote:

>> here's the website of our NTZ, should be up and running by summer

>> http://www.arrancoast.co.uk/

>Oh, that's most excellent.

Er, oh that's most Flash-required-or-website-fails-to-load.
Gack!! Fix it!!

Steve

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:25:31 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:35:42 GMT, "Randy Johnson" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On 29-Feb-2008, blake murphy > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> it's hard to get bonobo meat these days.
>>>
>>>You and Bobo have a lover's spat?
>>
>> i used crisco for lubricant and he went off in a huff.
>
>Hmph. I thought he could last a minute and a huff.

<snort>

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:46:28 -0800, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:


>
>I didn't know there were two levels of "endangered". Thanks for that
>link. Here's a recap of all the levels, in order:
>
>Extinction
> Extinct
> Extinct in the Wild
>
>Threatened
> Critically Endangered
> Endangered
> Vulnerable
> Threatened
>
>Lower risk
> Conservation Dependent
> Near Threatened
> Least Concern

and the lowest level of all: 'go ahead and pig out on them, you nasty
brutes.'

your pal,
blake

Steve Pope wrote:

> Miche > wrote:
>
> > Janet Baraclough > wrote:
>
> >> here's the website of our NTZ, should be up and running by summer
>
> >> http://www.arrancoast.co.uk/
>
> >Oh, that's most excellent.
>
> Er, oh that's most Flash-required-or-website-fails-to-load.
> Gack!! Fix it!!


Why are Europeans so partial to *horrible* Flash websites...???


--
Best
Greg