Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the March 10
entry.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor
Pray for the abatement of her pain.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
> interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the March
> 10 entry.
>
Haven't seen Leila around lately... but I'll bet she's still coveting my
(ugly!) Chelsea Bird china

Jill

"kilikini" > wrote in
:


>
> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
> he can. It can be done!
>


Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!

Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!

Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board. Just doing
office work.

She earns AUD$52,000.


My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world' the flick
and come to the "Lucky Country".


(Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's just on 4
times what TFM is making)



No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

"kilikini" > wrote in news:47d6a2df$0$6478
:

> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>> "kilikini" > dropped this
>> : in rec.food.cooking
>>
>>>
>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
>>> he can. It can be done!
>>>
>>> kili
>>
>> Dammit. I forgot to post the link. Here it is:
>> http://bedouina.typepad.com/personal...yed_peas_.html
>>
>> Where have you been? I've left two voice mails and sent a couple of
>> emails and haven't heard from you. Hope all is well.
>>
>> Michael
>
> If you'd ever answer your phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL.
>



LOL!! 3Dogs and his "OMG, what's happened to you"........ *again*!!


Some people call it a 'caring side'.

I prefer DQ.



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

PeterLucas wrote:
> "kilikini" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>
>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
>> he can. It can be done!
>>
>
>
> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
>
> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
>
In all fairness, her husband's job (construction) depends a lot on the
weather. And they don't live in a huge metropolitan area which doesn't help
in terms of the work available, either.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in
:

> PeterLucas wrote:
>> "kilikini" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>>
>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
>>> he can. It can be done!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
>>
>> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
>> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
>>
> In all fairness, her husband's job (construction) depends a lot on the
> weather.


Even so.........

I have a mate who is a builder. It's been ****ing down rain over here
for the last 3 months.

He still manages to bring in approx $1k per week, in the hand.

It still amazes me that people living in the US (and working!!) are
earning less than some curry muncher in a sweatshop in the backblocks of
Dehli.

If TFM and Kili want a personal reference to facilitate their move to
Oz..... I'm here.


> And they don't live in a huge metropolitan area which
> doesn't help in terms of the work available, either.
>


Then it should be a case of *move*. Or follow the work.

TFM should just 'chase' earthquakes and tornados.
Kili is a tough chick, she can manage on her own for a little while.

Met quite a few of those 'tradesmen' when I was living over there.

They go where the rebuilding needs to be done, charge a fortune, and get
away with it.

Shit........ I remember going from apartment to aprtment up in Granada
Hills, looking for bodies (initially), in this *huge* complex that my
mate lived in (I happened to be 'sleeping over' on that night), and
people were literally throwing money at me to do simple and basic tasks
for them, such as turn off their gas!!
I was embarrassed to take their money from them (but did because my mate
said they would get offended!!), because over here, Search and Rescue
and Immediate Disaster Relief are all done *free of charge*!!!


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

jmcquown wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
>> interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the March
>> 10 entry.
>>
> Haven't seen Leila around lately... but I'll bet she's still coveting my
> (ugly!) Chelsea Bird china
>
> Jill

LOL, yeah, she always did didn't she?
It isn't ugly. It is classic. That helps it overcome the ugly a bit.

PeterLucas wrote:
> "kilikini" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
>> he can. It can be done!
>>
>
>
> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
>
> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
>
> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board. Just doing
> office work.
>
> She earns AUD$52,000.
>
>
> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world' the flick
> and come to the "Lucky Country".
>
>
> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's just on 4
> times what TFM is making)
>
>
>
> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
>
I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the US
society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?

Goomba38 > wrote in
:

> PeterLucas wrote:
>> "kilikini" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
>>> he can. It can be done!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
>>
>> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
>> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
>>
>> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board. Just
>> doing office work.
>>
>> She earns AUD$52,000.
>>
>>
>> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world' the
>> flick and come to the "Lucky Country".
>>
>>
>> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's just on 4
>> times what TFM is making)
>>
>>
>>
>> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
>>
> I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the US
> society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?
>
>
>



No.


My CA wife was a Theoretical Physicist (working on the 'Star Wars'
program) at UCLA and she counted *every* penny she had.

I was an Aussie ex-soldier, bumming around the world skydiving, earning
more than twice as much as she was.

Here's a look at the average wage for Aussies......

http://www.domainsdownunder.com/wages-australia.html

and when compared to this..........

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_fl.htm#b47-0000



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
...
> PeterLucas wrote:
>> "kilikini" > wrote in
>> :
>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
>>> he can. It can be done!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
>>
>> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
>> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
>>
>> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board. Just doing
>> office work.
>>
>> She earns AUD$52,000.
>>
>>
>> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world' the flick
>> and come to the "Lucky Country".
>>
>>
>> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's just on 4
>> times what TFM is making)
>>
>>
>>
>> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
>>
> I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the US
> society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?
>
>
I would have to agree. Each situation is so different in the US. The cost of
living can differ from county to county, state to state, region to region.
What we make in Northern California would be a fortune in Mississippi where
we moved from. A cookie cutter house on a zero lot is still about the same
price as a larger house on several acres in the area we transferred here
from. It's so hard to make a judgement on a single person's experience.
Though I have to agree, there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in
the U.S. Some fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those
who are toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.

We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a little help
from outside sometimes. Being a single mom with a deadbeat ex was vary hard
because I had to either work a job that my schedule met that of my children,
or pay for childcare which saps a paycheck. Just saying, every situation is
so different, it's like comparing apples and turnips.

Cindi

Cindi

PeterLucas wrote:
> >
> > I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the US
> > society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?
>
> No.
>
> My CA wife was a Theoretical Physicist (working on the 'Star Wars'
> program) at UCLA and she counted *every* penny she had.
>
> I was an Aussie ex-soldier, bumming around the world skydiving, earning
> more than twice as much as she was.
>
> Here's a look at the average wage for Aussies......
>
> http://www.domainsdownunder.com/wages-australia.html
>
> and when compared to this..........
>
> http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_fl.htm#b47-0000

Your comparison is highly inaccurate... you're comparing wages of
construction labor in the US to what, unspecified AU jobs... and the
AU dollar is worth less and goods and services cost more... it costs
more to live in AU.

http://www.liveinvictoria.vic.gov.au...content Id=-1

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
> interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the March 10
> entry.
> --

I thought the linked article was pretty interesting but didn't care
for the author's repeated (ok, 2?) references to shame. The woman she
was profiling seemed to be doing just fine, living the way she wanted
to live, eating the best quality food that she could acquire. The
woman profiled in the article sounds quite resourceful, and the shame
element seemed to be inserted by the writer. Other than that, I
enjoyed the article.

pat

Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
>
> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> ...
> > PeterLucas wrote:
> >> "kilikini" > wrote in
> >> :
> >>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
> >>> he can. It can be done!
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
> >>
> >> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
> >> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
> >>
> >> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board. Just doing
> >> office work.
> >>
> >> She earns AUD$52,000.
> >>
> >>
> >> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world' the flick
> >> and come to the "Lucky Country".
> >>
> >>
> >> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's just on 4
> >> times what TFM is making)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
> >>
> > I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the US
> > society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?
> >
> >
> I would have to agree. Each situation is so different in the US. The cost of
> living can differ from county to county, state to state, region to region.
> What we make in Northern California would be a fortune in Mississippi where
> we moved from. A cookie cutter house on a zero lot is still about the same
> price as a larger house on several acres in the area we transferred here
> from. It's so hard to make a judgement on a single person's experience.
> Though I have to agree, there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in
> the U.S. Some fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those
> who are toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.
>
> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a little help
> from outside sometimes. Being a single mom with a deadbeat ex was vary hard
> because I had to either work a job that my schedule met that of my children,
> or pay for childcare which saps a paycheck. Just saying, every situation is
> so different, it's like comparing apples and turnips.

Exactly.

This is the problem when folks outside the US, particularly those in
Europe look at any sort of blanket statistics for the US. They really
don't grasp how large and diverse the US is and how any given statistic
presents a very distorted appearance when you try to apply it to the
whole US.

Some of their countries would fit into our larger states. If they were
to compare the US statistics to the same statistic applied to the whole
of Europe, including their problem areas, they would get a better
comparison. It just isn't really possible to get the true picture of the
US by looking at a statistic for the whole US.

Looking state by state gives a more accurate picture. Even then, for the
larger US states you have to go by city since a large state may have one
really bad city that distorts the statistics, while the rest of the
state is great.

Things like murder stats get really distorted since the stats may make a
state look dangerous when the reality is a 4 block area in one city in
that state accounts for most of the murders and the rest of the state
has virtually none.

Recently one person from France was in Dallas, TX visiting and wanted to
visit Carlsbad Caverns just over the border into New Mexico... until he
was told that it was a 10 hour drive (and that's on 70-80 Mph highways).

>>>>>>snippage<<<<<<<<<<,,,

> Exactly.
>
> This is the problem when folks outside the US, particularly those in
> Europe look at any sort of blanket statistics for the US. They really
> don't grasp how large and diverse the US is and how any given statistic
> presents a very distorted appearance when you try to apply it to the
> whole US.
>
> Some of their countries would fit into our larger states. If they were
> to compare the US statistics to the same statistic applied to the whole
> of Europe, including their problem areas, they would get a better
> comparison. It just isn't really possible to get the true picture of the
> US by looking at a statistic for the whole US.
>
> Looking state by state gives a more accurate picture. Even then, for the
> larger US states you have to go by city since a large state may have one
> really bad city that distorts the statistics, while the rest of the
> state is great.
>
> Things like murder stats get really distorted since the stats may make a
> state look dangerous when the reality is a 4 block area in one city in
> that state accounts for most of the murders and the rest of the state
> has virtually none.
>
> Recently one person from France was in Dallas, TX visiting and wanted to
> visit Carlsbad Caverns just over the border into New Mexico... until he
> was told that it was a 10 hour drive (and that's on 70-80 Mph highways).

When we moved to Scotland while I was growing up, we would be asked over and
over whether we knew any stars, or if we lived near this or that musician.
There was no concept of the fact that we are from North Carolina as far away
from Hollywood as we were from Scotland. It's a hard scope to recognize I
suppose. That makes it's hard to see the difficultly of assessing financial
status across the country.

The U.S. is an unusual critter I guess.

Cindi

Pete C. wrote:
> Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
>> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> PeterLucas wrote:
>>>> "kilikini" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
>>>>> he can. It can be done!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
>>>>
>>>> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
>>>> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
>>>>
>>>> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board. Just doing
>>>> office work.
>>>>
>>>> She earns AUD$52,000.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world' the flick
>>>> and come to the "Lucky Country".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's just on 4
>>>> times what TFM is making)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
>>>>
>>> I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the US
>>> society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?
>>>
>>>
>> I would have to agree. Each situation is so different in the US. The cost of
>> living can differ from county to county, state to state, region to region.
>> What we make in Northern California would be a fortune in Mississippi where
>> we moved from. A cookie cutter house on a zero lot is still about the same
>> price as a larger house on several acres in the area we transferred here
>> from. It's so hard to make a judgement on a single person's experience.
>> Though I have to agree, there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in
>> the U.S. Some fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those
>> who are toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.
>>
>> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a little help
>> from outside sometimes. Being a single mom with a deadbeat ex was vary hard
>> because I had to either work a job that my schedule met that of my children,
>> or pay for childcare which saps a paycheck. Just saying, every situation is
>> so different, it's like comparing apples and turnips.
>
> Exactly.
>
> This is the problem when folks outside the US, particularly those in
> Europe look at any sort of blanket statistics for the US. They really
> don't grasp how large and diverse the US is and how any given statistic
> presents a very distorted appearance when you try to apply it to the
> whole US.
>
> Some of their countries would fit into our larger states. If they were
> to compare the US statistics to the same statistic applied to the whole
> of Europe, including their problem areas, they would get a better
> comparison. It just isn't really possible to get the true picture of the
> US by looking at a statistic for the whole US.
>
> Looking state by state gives a more accurate picture. Even then, for the
> larger US states you have to go by city since a large state may have one
> really bad city that distorts the statistics, while the rest of the
> state is great.
>
> Things like murder stats get really distorted since the stats may make a
> state look dangerous when the reality is a 4 block area in one city in
> that state accounts for most of the murders and the rest of the state
> has virtually none.
>
> Recently one person from France was in Dallas, TX visiting and wanted to
> visit Carlsbad Caverns just over the border into New Mexico... until he
> was told that it was a 10 hour drive (and that's on 70-80 Mph highways).
LOL! Reminds me of the New Yorker who stopped at a service station I
worked at in Orange, Texas. After I filled up his car he asked if he
could get to El Paso by lunch. You should have seen his jaw drop when I
told him it was 830 miles to El Paso and he had better pack a lunch.
This was in pre-interstate highway days and the route was old US Highway 90.

It's not just people from outside the US, lots of folks in the eastern
states have no idea how large some western states are.

George Shirley wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
> >> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> PeterLucas wrote:
> >>>> "kilikini" > wrote in
> >>>> :
> >>>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us as best
> >>>>> he can. It can be done!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00) that is
> >>>> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board. Just doing
> >>>> office work.
> >>>>
> >>>> She earns AUD$52,000.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world' the flick
> >>>> and come to the "Lucky Country".
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's just on 4
> >>>> times what TFM is making)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
> >>>>
> >>> I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the US
> >>> society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I would have to agree. Each situation is so different in the US. The cost of
> >> living can differ from county to county, state to state, region to region.
> >> What we make in Northern California would be a fortune in Mississippi where
> >> we moved from. A cookie cutter house on a zero lot is still about the same
> >> price as a larger house on several acres in the area we transferred here
> >> from. It's so hard to make a judgement on a single person's experience.
> >> Though I have to agree, there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in
> >> the U.S. Some fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those
> >> who are toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.
> >>
> >> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a little help
> >> from outside sometimes. Being a single mom with a deadbeat ex was vary hard
> >> because I had to either work a job that my schedule met that of my children,
> >> or pay for childcare which saps a paycheck. Just saying, every situation is
> >> so different, it's like comparing apples and turnips.
> >
> > Exactly.
> >
> > This is the problem when folks outside the US, particularly those in
> > Europe look at any sort of blanket statistics for the US. They really
> > don't grasp how large and diverse the US is and how any given statistic
> > presents a very distorted appearance when you try to apply it to the
> > whole US.
> >
> > Some of their countries would fit into our larger states. If they were
> > to compare the US statistics to the same statistic applied to the whole
> > of Europe, including their problem areas, they would get a better
> > comparison. It just isn't really possible to get the true picture of the
> > US by looking at a statistic for the whole US.
> >
> > Looking state by state gives a more accurate picture. Even then, for the
> > larger US states you have to go by city since a large state may have one
> > really bad city that distorts the statistics, while the rest of the
> > state is great.
> >
> > Things like murder stats get really distorted since the stats may make a
> > state look dangerous when the reality is a 4 block area in one city in
> > that state accounts for most of the murders and the rest of the state
> > has virtually none.
> >
> > Recently one person from France was in Dallas, TX visiting and wanted to
> > visit Carlsbad Caverns just over the border into New Mexico... until he
> > was told that it was a 10 hour drive (and that's on 70-80 Mph highways).
> LOL! Reminds me of the New Yorker who stopped at a service station I
> worked at in Orange, Texas. After I filled up his car he asked if he
> could get to El Paso by lunch. You should have seen his jaw drop when I
> told him it was 830 miles to El Paso and he had better pack a lunch.
> This was in pre-interstate highway days and the route was old US Highway 90.
>
> It's not just people from outside the US, lots of folks in the eastern
> states have no idea how large some western states are.

Yep, though a New Yorker should have had some idea since NY is a rather
tall state and NYC to Buffalo isn't exactly a 5 minute drive.

Goomba38 wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
>>> interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the March
>>> 10 entry.
>>>
>> Haven't seen Leila around lately... but I'll bet she's still
>> coveting my (ugly!) Chelsea Bird china
>>
>
> LOL, yeah, she always did didn't she?
> It isn't ugly. It is classic. That helps it overcome the ugly a bit.
>
It's quite attractive once you cover the design on the plate with food! LOL

Jill

George Shirley wrote:

> Pete C. wrote:
> > Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
> >>"Goomba38" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > PeterLucas wrote:
> >>>>"kilikini" > wrote in
> > > > > :
> > > > > > My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of
> > > > > > us as best he can. It can be done!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00)
> > > > > that is pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board.
> > > > > Just doing office work.
> > > > >
> > > > > She earns AUD$52,000.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world'
> > > > > the flick and come to the "Lucky Country".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's
> > > > > just on 4 times what TFM is making)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
> > > > >
> > > > I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of
> > > > the US society on the whole based on this family's unusual
> > > > situation?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I would have to agree. Each situation is so different in the US.
> > > The cost of living can differ from county to county, state to
> > > state, region to region. What we make in Northern California
> > > would be a fortune in Mississippi where we moved from. A cookie
> > > cutter house on a zero lot is still about the same price as a
> > > larger house on several acres in the area we transferred here
> > > from. It's so hard to make a judgement on a single person's
> > > experience. Though I have to agree, there is a huge gap in pay
> > > from job to job here in the U.S. Some fields pay an exorbitant
> > > amount for the job done, while those who are toiling every day in
> > > physical jobs make pennies.
> > >
> > > We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a
> > > little help from outside sometimes. Being a single mom with a
> > > deadbeat ex was vary hard because I had to either work a job that
> > > my schedule met that of my children, or pay for childcare which
> > > saps a paycheck. Just saying, every situation is so different,
> > > it's like comparing apples and turnips.
> >
> > Exactly. This is the problem when folks outside the US,
> > particularly those in Europe look at any sort of blanket statistics
> > for the US. They really don't grasp how large and diverse the US is
> > and how any given statistic presents a very distorted appearance
> > when you try to apply it to the whole US. Some of their countries
> > would fit into our larger states. If they were to compare the US
> > statistics to the same statistic applied to the whole of Europe,
> > including their problem areas, they would get a better comparison.
> > It just isn't really possible to get the true picture of the US by
> > looking at a statistic for the whole US. Looking state by state
> > gives a more accurate picture. Even then, for the larger US states
> > you have to go by city since a large state may have one really bad
> > city that distorts the statistics, while the rest of the state is
> > great.
> >
> > Things like murder stats get really distorted since the stats may
> > make a state look dangerous when the reality is a 4 block area in
> > one city in that state accounts for most of the murders and the
> > rest of the state has virtually none.
> >
> > Recently one person from France was in Dallas, TX visiting and
> > wanted to visit Carlsbad Caverns just over the border into New
> > Mexico... until he was told that it was a 10 hour drive (and that's
> > on 70-80 Mph highways).
> LOL! Reminds me of the New Yorker who stopped at a service station I
> worked at in Orange, Texas. After I filled up his car he asked if he
> could get to El Paso by lunch. You should have seen his jaw drop when
> I told him it was 830 miles to El Paso and he had better pack a
> lunch. This was in pre-interstate highway days and the route was old
> US Highway 90.
>
> It's not just people from outside the US, lots of folks in the
> eastern states have no idea how large some western states are.

When the second Woodstock festival took place, one member of a
newsgroup devoted to Upstate New York was a toll collector in the
extreme northwest corner of New York State. (Any farther north is in
Lake Erie; any farther west, Pennsylvania.) She kept being asked by
drivers of cars with Ohio license plates if they could get to Woodstock
in an hour.

In a flying car, maybe.

That newsgroup also had people dropping in to ask how to get tickets to
the David Letterman Show. (Why always that particular show? No idea.)
I can understand someone from, say, Michigan not being aware that
there's more to NYState than NYCity. But from Quebec?

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://dangoodman.livejournal.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

Pete C. wrote:

>
> George Shirley wrote:
> >
> > Pete C. wrote:
> > > Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
> > >> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> > >> ...
> > >>> PeterLucas wrote:
> > >>>> "kilikini" > wrote in
> > >>>> :
> > >>>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of us
> > as best >>>>> he can. It can be done!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >>>> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
> > > > > >
> > >>>> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00)
> > that is >>>> pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
> > > > > >
> > >>>> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board.
> > Just doing >>>> office work.
> > > > > >
> > >>>> She earns AUD$52,000.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >>>> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world'
> > the flick >>>> and come to the "Lucky Country".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >>>> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's
> > just on 4 >>>> times what TFM is making)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >>>> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
> > > > > >
> > >>> I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of
> > the US >>> society on the whole based on this family's unusual
> > situation?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >> I would have to agree. Each situation is so different in the US.
> > The cost of >> living can differ from county to county, state to
> > state, region to region. >> What we make in Northern California
> > would be a fortune in Mississippi where >> we moved from. A cookie
> > cutter house on a zero lot is still about the same >> price as a
> > larger house on several acres in the area we transferred here >>
> > from. It's so hard to make a judgement on a single person's
> > experience. >> Though I have to agree, there is a huge gap in pay
> > from job to job here in >> the U.S. Some fields pay an exorbitant
> > amount for the job done, while those >> who are toiling every day
> > in physical jobs make pennies.
> > > >
> > >> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a
> > little help >> from outside sometimes. Being a single mom with a
> > deadbeat ex was vary hard >> because I had to either work a job
> > that my schedule met that of my children, >> or pay for childcare
> > which saps a paycheck. Just saying, every situation is >> so
> > different, it's like comparing apples and turnips.
> > >
> > > Exactly.
> > >
> > > This is the problem when folks outside the US, particularly those
> > > in Europe look at any sort of blanket statistics for the US. They
> > > really don't grasp how large and diverse the US is and how any
> > > given statistic presents a very distorted appearance when you try
> > > to apply it to the whole US.
> > >
> > > Some of their countries would fit into our larger states. If they
> > > were to compare the US statistics to the same statistic applied
> > > to the whole of Europe, including their problem areas, they would
> > > get a better comparison. It just isn't really possible to get the
> > > true picture of the US by looking at a statistic for the whole US.
> > >
> > > Looking state by state gives a more accurate picture. Even then,
> > > for the larger US states you have to go by city since a large
> > > state may have one really bad city that distorts the statistics,
> > > while the rest of the state is great.
> > >
> > > Things like murder stats get really distorted since the stats may
> > > make a state look dangerous when the reality is a 4 block area in
> > > one city in that state accounts for most of the murders and the
> > > rest of the state has virtually none.
> > >
> > > Recently one person from France was in Dallas, TX visiting and
> > > wanted to visit Carlsbad Caverns just over the border into New
> > > Mexico... until he was told that it was a 10 hour drive (and
> > > that's on 70-80 Mph highways).
> > LOL! Reminds me of the New Yorker who stopped at a service station I
> > worked at in Orange, Texas. After I filled up his car he asked if he
> > could get to El Paso by lunch. You should have seen his jaw drop
> > when I told him it was 830 miles to El Paso and he had better pack
> > a lunch. This was in pre-interstate highway days and the route was
> > old US Highway 90.
> >
> > It's not just people from outside the US, lots of folks in the
> > eastern states have no idea how large some western states are.
>
> Yep, though a New Yorker should have had some idea since NY is a
> rather tall state and NYC to Buffalo isn't exactly a 5 minute drive.

People don't _think_ about such things.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://dangoodman.livejournal.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote in
6.121:

> PeterLucas > dropped this
> .25: in
> rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> LOL!! 3Dogs and his "OMG, what's happened to you"........ *again*!!
>
> LOL!! PL and his lame attempt at humor again.



You must admit, you pull this sort of 'stuff' quite often.


>
>>
>>
>> Some people call it a 'caring side'.
>
> Awwwwwwww...
>
>
>>
>> I prefer DQ.
>
> You're into drag queens?
>


Ummm, no. Maybe, for you, I should have drawn pictures.

"Some people call it a 'caring side'. I prefer to call it being a DQ
(Drama Queen)."

Clear enough for you?


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

Dan Goodman wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>
>> Pete C. wrote:
>>> Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
>>>> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> PeterLucas wrote:
>>>>>> "kilikini" > wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>> My hubby makes about $14K a year and supports the both of
>>>>>>> us as best he can. It can be done!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Excuse the French but.......... ***** me*!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even with the exchange rate (it comes out to AUD$15,140.00)
>>>>>> that is pathetic for the "supposed" #1 country in the world!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our 23yo daughter is working for the State electricity Board.
>>>>>> Just doing office work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She earns AUD$52,000.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My advice.......... give the 'greatest country in the world'
>>>>>> the flick and come to the "Lucky Country".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Although they pay their ex-soldiers jack-shit........ it's
>>>>>> just on 4 times what TFM is making)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No wonder so many people in the US turn to crime.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of
>>>>> the US society on the whole based on this family's unusual
>>>>> situation?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I would have to agree. Each situation is so different in the US.
>>>> The cost of living can differ from county to county, state to
>>>> state, region to region. What we make in Northern California
>>>> would be a fortune in Mississippi where we moved from. A cookie
>>>> cutter house on a zero lot is still about the same price as a
>>>> larger house on several acres in the area we transferred here
>>>> from. It's so hard to make a judgement on a single person's
>>>> experience. Though I have to agree, there is a huge gap in pay
>>>> from job to job here in the U.S. Some fields pay an exorbitant
>>>> amount for the job done, while those who are toiling every day in
>>>> physical jobs make pennies.
>>>>
>>>> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a
>>>> little help from outside sometimes. Being a single mom with a
>>>> deadbeat ex was vary hard because I had to either work a job that
>>>> my schedule met that of my children, or pay for childcare which
>>>> saps a paycheck. Just saying, every situation is so different,
>>>> it's like comparing apples and turnips.
>>> Exactly. This is the problem when folks outside the US,
>>> particularly those in Europe look at any sort of blanket statistics
>>> for the US. They really don't grasp how large and diverse the US is
>>> and how any given statistic presents a very distorted appearance
>>> when you try to apply it to the whole US. Some of their countries
>>> would fit into our larger states. If they were to compare the US
>>> statistics to the same statistic applied to the whole of Europe,
>>> including their problem areas, they would get a better comparison.
>>> It just isn't really possible to get the true picture of the US by
>>> looking at a statistic for the whole US. Looking state by state
>>> gives a more accurate picture. Even then, for the larger US states
>>> you have to go by city since a large state may have one really bad
>>> city that distorts the statistics, while the rest of the state is
>>> great.
>>>
>>> Things like murder stats get really distorted since the stats may
>>> make a state look dangerous when the reality is a 4 block area in
>>> one city in that state accounts for most of the murders and the
>>> rest of the state has virtually none.
>>>
>>> Recently one person from France was in Dallas, TX visiting and
>>> wanted to visit Carlsbad Caverns just over the border into New
>>> Mexico... until he was told that it was a 10 hour drive (and that's
>>> on 70-80 Mph highways).
>> LOL! Reminds me of the New Yorker who stopped at a service station I
>> worked at in Orange, Texas. After I filled up his car he asked if he
>> could get to El Paso by lunch. You should have seen his jaw drop when
>> I told him it was 830 miles to El Paso and he had better pack a
>> lunch. This was in pre-interstate highway days and the route was old
>> US Highway 90.
>>
>> It's not just people from outside the US, lots of folks in the
>> eastern states have no idea how large some western states are.
>
> When the second Woodstock festival took place, one member of a
> newsgroup devoted to Upstate New York was a toll collector in the
> extreme northwest corner of New York State. (Any farther north is in
> Lake Erie; any farther west, Pennsylvania.) She kept being asked by
> drivers of cars with Ohio license plates if they could get to Woodstock
> in an hour.
>
> In a flying car, maybe.
>
> That newsgroup also had people dropping in to ask how to get tickets to
> the David Letterman Show. (Why always that particular show? No idea.)
> I can understand someone from, say, Michigan not being aware that
> there's more to NYState than NYCity. But from Quebec?
>
Most southerners think NYC is New York. I was that way when I was a kid,
only because that's where the Yankee's and the Dodgers played. Was in
the service with a guy from just a little south of Albany and went home
with him on a long weekend. Geez Louise, busted my bubble, it was a very
rural area in 1959 and we actually went deer hunting.

Sheldon > wrote in
:

> PeterLucas wrote:
>> >
>> > I think you're getting a distorted or inaccurate impression of the
>> > US society on the whole based on this family's unusual situation?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> My CA wife was a Theoretical Physicist (working on the 'Star Wars'
>> program) at UCLA and she counted *every* penny she had.
>>
>> I was an Aussie ex-soldier, bumming around the world skydiving,
>> earning more than twice as much as she was.
>>
>> Here's a look at the average wage for Aussies......
>>
>> http://www.domainsdownunder.com/wages-australia.html
>>
>> and when compared to this..........
>>
>> http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_fl.htm#b47-0000
>
> Your comparison is highly inaccurate...


No, it's not.


> you're comparing wages of
> construction labor in the US to what, unspecified AU jobs...


Can't you read?

It says the "average Australian wage".



>and the
> AU dollar is worth less


AUD$1 will buy us US.93c.

Pretty damn even if you ask me.


> and goods and services cost more... it costs
> more to live in AU.


That's crap.

http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving.htm


>
> http://www.liveinvictoria.vic.gov.au...?siteNodeId=32
&lang
> uageId=1&contentId=-1


Don't know where they got their prices from. Must have been a 711 in the
heart of Melbourne, because they're prices are crap.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote in
6.121:

> PeterLucas > dropped this
> 0.25: in
> rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> You must admit, you pull this sort of 'stuff' quite often.
>
> Stuff? Making an inquiry is "stuff"?


No, carrying on like a Drama Queen is 'stuff'.


>
>>
>> Ummm, no. Maybe, for you, I should have drawn pictures.
>
> Yes, I like to look at fashion.


I'm sure you do.


>
>>
>> "Some people call it a 'caring side'. I prefer to call it being a DQ
>> (Drama Queen)."
>
> Whoopeeeeee... tell someone who gives a shit what you prefer.


You obviously do.


>
>> Clear enough for you?
>
> I still want to see the pictures.


If you need to look at pictures to gain comprehension, then maybe you
should try some of the 'remedial' newsgroups.

Continue carrying on like a pork chop, as is your want.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

"Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
et:


> judgement on a single person's experience. Though I have to agree,
> there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in the U.S.


With people relying on tips to live. That sucks.


> Some
> fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those who are
> toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.


Which is why we have a very good wage system over here. If someone tries
to diddle the workers, they're up the creek.


>
> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a little
> help from outside sometimes.


The poor old age pensioners over here are the worst off. They have to
try and survive on about $300pw.


> Being a single mom with a deadbeat ex was
> vary hard because I had to either work a job that my schedule met that
> of my children, or pay for childcare which saps a paycheck.


I was a single dad with a deadbeat ex :-)

But I was fortunate enough to have been retired at age 33, so I could
look after the kids myself.

Childcare is a *huge* issue over here, it costs a bloody fortune!!


>Just
> saying, every situation is so different, it's like comparing apples
> and turnips.
>


No matter what situation you have over there, we have the same or
similar over here....... except for the wage issue.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

"Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
. net:


>
> When we moved to Scotland while I was growing up, we would be asked
> over and over whether we knew any stars, or if we lived near this or
> that musician. There was no concept of the fact that we are from North
> Carolina as far away from Hollywood as we were from Scotland. It's a
> hard scope to recognize I suppose. That makes it's hard to see the
> difficultly of assessing financial status across the country.
>
> The U.S. is an unusual critter I guess.
>


LOL!! I've had Yanks come up to me and ask if we have Kangaroos jumping
down the main street, and when they find out where I live some have gone
"Oh, do you know so-and-so, they live around there too"!!

There's approx 3.1 million people in South East Queensland alone.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

PeterLucas wrote:

>
>
> LOL!! I've had Yanks come up to me and ask if we have Kangaroos jumping
> down the main street, and when they find out where I live some have gone
> "Oh, do you know so-and-so, they live around there too"!!
>
> There's approx 3.1 million people in South East Queensland alone.

You never know. A couple years ago my brother and his wife were in the
Cotswalds and ran into another Canadian couple and after a bit of
conversation discovered that the other couple live just around the corner
from me.

While on vacation out in British Columbia, which is almost 2,000 from where
I live, I ended up sitting on an airplane next to someone I went to high
school with .... twice. On another trip out there I met a guy who was
originally from a town about 150 miles from where I live. He was telling me
about a cottage he had built on Lake Huron. My SiL had just bought a cottage
up that way. I had never been there, but knew that she bought is from a
minister. He asked if it was a one armed minister. It was. That was the
place he had built.

The world is a small place. You have to be polite every where you go.

Dave Smith > wrote in
:

> PeterLucas wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> LOL!! I've had Yanks come up to me and ask if we have Kangaroos
>> jumping down the main street, and when they find out where I live
>> some have gone "Oh, do you know so-and-so, they live around there
>> too"!!
>>
>> There's approx 3.1 million people in South East Queensland alone.
>

>
> The world is a small place.



I know that for a fact!!

I went into a little sports bar in Temecula, CA. Way out in the middle
of no-where.

Saw a guy there who's face seemed familiar. He thought the same of mine.

After awhile we worked it out that he had held a door open for me and a
couple of other people, way out in the sticks in Central Africa, as we
were coming in off a chopper, and he was about to head out.

That was in '78, we met in the bar in '92.


> You have to be polite every where you go.
>


As I am..... because I'm a *nice* person ;-)


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

Melba's Jammin' <Melba's Jammin' >>
wrote:

> Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
> interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the March 10
> entry.

I'd bet the SF Gate has embellished this story a little. A single
person, with a baby, and a car, and an apartment (the same apartment
she had when she was doing OK) cannot live in Oakland on
$1,200/month.

'Jane' (or the reporter) is probably a con-artist.

-sw

"PeterLucas" > wrote in message
0.25...
> "Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
> et:
>
>
>> judgement on a single person's experience. Though I have to agree,
>> there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in the U.S.
>
>
> With people relying on tips to live. That sucks.

Amen. Servers here (waiters/waitresses) can be paid the pitiful amount of
$2.13 an hour. Their tips must at least equal out to minimum wage or the
employer has to make up the difference. This is, of course, the minimum and
there are restaurants that pay better as with any job. That rate still sucks
and I don't know how people in that position can survive on their wages.
Though some people like the fact that they can rely on their performance to
earn more in tips. To each his own.

>
>
>> Some
>> fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those who are
>> toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.
>
>
> Which is why we have a very good wage system over here. If someone tries
> to diddle the workers, they're up the creek.

The U.S. does have a minimum wage law. However that minimum wage law does
not guarantee a "living wage." At minimum wage of $5.85 an hour is only
$234.00 a week for only a bit more than $12,000 a year. I realize there are
people who can make it on that, but it isn't easy and you have to live in
the right place and not in an area of extremely high cost of living.

>
>
>>
>> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a little
>> help from outside sometimes.
>
>
> The poor old age pensioners over here are the worst off. They have to
> try and survive on about $300pw.

Even that is more than what minimum wage would pull in for a 40 hour work
week.

>
>
>> Being a single mom with a deadbeat ex was
>> vary hard because I had to either work a job that my schedule met that
>> of my children, or pay for childcare which saps a paycheck.
>
>
> I was a single dad with a deadbeat ex :-)
>
> But I was fortunate enough to have been retired at age 33, so I could
> look after the kids myself.
>
> Childcare is a *huge* issue over here, it costs a bloody fortune!!

Childcare seems to be the sore spot no matter where the conversation is.
It's expensive. It isn't that we as parents don't think those taking of our
children aren't worth every penny, we just can't afford to give every penny
to them.

>
>
>>Just
>> saying, every situation is so different, it's like comparing apples
>> and turnips.
>>
>
>
> No matter what situation you have over there, we have the same or
> similar over here....... except for the wage issue.

Australia has the benefit of some understanding how big our country is and
how diverse the areas can be in themselves. I guess that's to say that every
country has people living on each rung of the financial ladder.

Cindi

>
>
> --
> Peter Lucas
> Brisbane
> Australia
>
>
> Wars begin where you will...
> but they do not end where you please.
>
> Machiavelli

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:44:48 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>Leila Abu-Saba McLeod

Middle East "meats" West;
ok... I'm going away now, Leila.

sf
who is married to a naturalized citizen

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smile first

"Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
et:

>
> "PeterLucas" > wrote in message
> 0.25...
>> "Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
>> et:
>>
>>
>>> judgement on a single person's experience. Though I have to agree,
>>> there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in the U.S.
>>
>>
>> With people relying on tips to live. That sucks.
>
> Amen. Servers here (waiters/waitresses) can be paid the pitiful amount
> of $2.13 an hour.


[Shock!!]


I knew it was bad, I just didn't know it was *that* bad.

I thought our waiters and waitresses were hard done by!!

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/...ss/Hourly_Rate



> Their tips must at least equal out to minimum wage
> or the employer has to make up the difference. This is, of course, the
> minimum and there are restaurants that pay better as with any job.
> That rate still sucks and I don't know how people in that position can
> survive on their wages. Though some people like the fact that they can
> rely on their performance to earn more in tips. To each his own.


"What do hospitality jobs in Australia pay?
Casual rates

Unlike some countries, casual hospitality jobs in Australia pay a good
base wage and sometimes include tips on top of this.

If you are a casual you will be paid an hourly rate that will obviously
vary between employers. Hourly hospitality base rates for adult casuals
are usually $15-$20 per hour. You will normally get paid extra for
working overtime/late nights and possibly ‘time-and-a-half’ or ‘double
time’ on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays."



And here are just the Queensland wage rates for Hospitality
workers......

http://www.wageline.qld.gov.au/award...ards/H0310/5.2
+Wage+rates

http://tinyurl.com/ytb9lg



>
>>
>>
>>> Some
>>> fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those who
>>> are toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.
>>
>>
>> Which is why we have a very good wage system over here. If someone
>> tries to diddle the workers, they're up the creek.
>
> The U.S. does have a minimum wage law. However that minimum wage law
> does not guarantee a "living wage." At minimum wage of $5.85 an hour
> is only $234.00 a week for only a bit more than $12,000 a year.


Even schoolkids working at the local supermarket get around $10-12 an
hour here!!



>> The poor old age pensioners over here are the worst off. They have to
>> try and survive on about $300pw.
>
> Even that is more than what minimum wage would pull in for a 40 hour
> work week.



>>
>> Childcare is a *huge* issue over here, it costs a bloody fortune!!
>
> Childcare seems to be the sore spot no matter where the conversation
> is. It's expensive. It isn't that we as parents don't think those
> taking of our children aren't worth every penny, we just can't afford
> to give every penny to them.
>

Thankfully, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

Another big issue here is the fact that most grandparents are now
becoming almost fulltime carers for their grandkids, while both mum and
dad work. There was a push on for them to recieve a payment from the
Govt that would have been inline with what the Childcare agencies are
getting.

But,our pollies being the kind wonderful souls that they are, said no.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
>
> "PeterLucas" > wrote in message
> 0.25...
> > "Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
> > et:
> >
> >
> >> judgement on a single person's experience. Though I have to agree,
> >> there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in the U.S.
> >
> >
> > With people relying on tips to live. That sucks.
>
> Amen. Servers here (waiters/waitresses) can be paid the pitiful amount of
> $2.13 an hour. Their tips must at least equal out to minimum wage or the
> employer has to make up the difference. This is, of course, the minimum and
> there are restaurants that pay better as with any job. That rate still sucks
> and I don't know how people in that position can survive on their wages.
> Though some people like the fact that they can rely on their performance to
> earn more in tips. To each his own.

A good waiter / waitress and a good restaurant can make a good deal.

>
> >
> >
> >> Some
> >> fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those who are
> >> toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.
> >
> >
> > Which is why we have a very good wage system over here. If someone tries
> > to diddle the workers, they're up the creek.
>
> The U.S. does have a minimum wage law. However that minimum wage law does
> not guarantee a "living wage." At minimum wage of $5.85 an hour is only
> $234.00 a week for only a bit more than $12,000 a year. I realize there are
> people who can make it on that, but it isn't easy and you have to live in
> the right place and not in an area of extremely high cost of living.

And to make it more complicated, there is a base federal minimum wage,
but many if not most states have their own higher minimum wage. Of
course minimum wage is also meaningless in many states as the defacto
wage is a good deal higher since there simply isn't anyone there willing
to work for the minimum. I know in CT where I used to be, $8-$9/hr for a
McDonalds job was not at all unusual and they often had to go higher to
get any applicants. In other states they would be flooded with
applicants for those wages.

>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> We learn to live with what we have though. Even if we do need a little
> >> help from outside sometimes.
> >
> >
> > The poor old age pensioners over here are the worst off. They have to
> > try and survive on about $300pw.
>
> Even that is more than what minimum wage would pull in for a 40 hour work
> week.

But few people in the US actually work for the minimum wage. The minimum
wage is nothing more than a politician's vote buying scam since few
people actually work for the minimum, and when it is raised it just
triggers inflation that quickly rebalances the economy and the true wage
right back to where it was, albeit with higher numbers all around.

>
> >
> >
> >> Being a single mom with a deadbeat ex was
> >> vary hard because I had to either work a job that my schedule met that
> >> of my children, or pay for childcare which saps a paycheck.
> >
> >
> > I was a single dad with a deadbeat ex :-)
> >
> > But I was fortunate enough to have been retired at age 33, so I could
> > look after the kids myself.
> >
> > Childcare is a *huge* issue over here, it costs a bloody fortune!!
>
> Childcare seems to be the sore spot no matter where the conversation is.
> It's expensive. It isn't that we as parents don't think those taking of our
> children aren't worth every penny, we just can't afford to give every penny
> to them.

That is a problem that grew out of the increase in single parents (of
both genders), and dual income families. The bottom line is that you
need to think about that before you have children, anything else is
simple irresponsibility, and that includes not having good life
insurance on the single income earner of a family.

>
> >
> >
> >>Just
> >> saying, every situation is so different, it's like comparing apples
> >> and turnips.
> >>
> >
> >
> > No matter what situation you have over there, we have the same or
> > similar over here....... except for the wage issue.
>
> Australia has the benefit of some understanding how big our country is and
> how diverse the areas can be in themselves. I guess that's to say that every
> country has people living on each rung of the financial ladder.

Yes, Ausies should have a bit better perspective on it than Europeans.
Heck they even have their own previously oppressed minority.

PeterLucas wrote:
>
> "Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
> et:
>
> >
> > "PeterLucas" > wrote in message
> > 0.25...
> >> "Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
> >> et:
> >>
> >>
> >>> judgement on a single person's experience. Though I have to agree,
> >>> there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in the U.S.
> >>
> >>
> >> With people relying on tips to live. That sucks.
> >
> > Amen. Servers here (waiters/waitresses) can be paid the pitiful amount
> > of $2.13 an hour.
>
> [Shock!!]
>
> I knew it was bad, I just didn't know it was *that* bad.
>
> I thought our waiters and waitresses were hard done by!!
>
> http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/...ss/Hourly_Rate
>
> > Their tips must at least equal out to minimum wage
> > or the employer has to make up the difference. This is, of course, the
> > minimum and there are restaurants that pay better as with any job.
> > That rate still sucks and I don't know how people in that position can
> > survive on their wages. Though some people like the fact that they can
> > rely on their performance to earn more in tips. To each his own.
>
> "What do hospitality jobs in Australia pay?
> Casual rates
>
> Unlike some countries, casual hospitality jobs in Australia pay a good
> base wage and sometimes include tips on top of this.
>
> If you are a casual you will be paid an hourly rate that will obviously
> vary between employers. Hourly hospitality base rates for adult casuals
> are usually $15-$20 per hour. You will normally get paid extra for
> working overtime/late nights and possibly ‘time-and-a-half’ or ‘double
> time’ on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays."
>
> And here are just the Queensland wage rates for Hospitality
> workers......
>
> http://www.wageline.qld.gov.au/award...ards/H0310/5.2
> +Wage+rates
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ytb9lg
>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> Some
> >>> fields pay an exorbitant amount for the job done, while those who
> >>> are toiling every day in physical jobs make pennies.
> >>
> >>
> >> Which is why we have a very good wage system over here. If someone
> >> tries to diddle the workers, they're up the creek.
> >
> > The U.S. does have a minimum wage law. However that minimum wage law
> > does not guarantee a "living wage." At minimum wage of $5.85 an hour
> > is only $234.00 a week for only a bit more than $12,000 a year.
>
> Even schoolkids working at the local supermarket get around $10-12 an
> hour here!!

That is the norm here in many states as well. Also factor in our lower
taxes.

Very few people in the US actually work for the minimum wage, and there
is more than one minimum wage here, a low federal one, and many higher
ones in individual states.

Actual minimum wages are really determined by the labor market and cost
of living in an area and regardless of the minimums, actual wages are
much higher in many areas because there are simply no workers willing to
work for less.

In a state with a $7.20 minimum wage it is not uncommon to see McDonalds
or grocery store jobs posted at well above that minimum, particularly in
wealthier states where the teenagers will simply not work for less.

PeterLucas wrote:

>
>
> As I am..... because I'm a *nice* person ;-)
>
>
Of course you are a *nice* person - and the fact that you like
boerewors means you have good taste in food too

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Food is an important part of a balanced diet. - Fran Lebowitz

Cindi - HappyMamatoThree wrote:
> "PeterLucas" > wrote in message
> 0.25...
>> "Cindi - HappyMamatoThree" > wrote in
>> et:
>>
>>
>>> judgement on a single person's experience. Though I have to agree,
>>> there is a huge gap in pay from job to job here in the U.S.
>>
>>
>> With people relying on tips to live. That sucks.
>
> Amen. Servers here (waiters/waitresses) can be paid the pitiful
> amount of $2.13 an hour. Their tips must at least equal out to
> minimum wage or the employer has to make up the difference. This is,
> of course, the minimum and there are restaurants that pay better as
> with any job. That rate still sucks and I don't know how people in
> that position can survive on their wages. Though some people like the
> fact that they can rely on their performance to earn more in tips. To
> each his own.
If you look around, many of those servers are right out of high school or in
college. They live with their parents or have a couple of roommates (been
there, done that, starting back in the day before tips were taxed). Their
priorities are different from those of older folks.

When there were layoffs at the firm I worked at in 1990 I figured I'd get a
job as a server to bring in some (minimal) cash while job hunting.
(Restaurant hours don't generally take up your entire day, even if you work
a split shift.) The manager who interviewed me said (not unkindly) I
undoubtedly had more bills than the 18 & 19 year olds who were waiting
tables there. So he hired me as a hostess with starting pay at $6.50/hr and
he had me supplement those hours by doing the computer accounting work for
that store.

Having said that, there's a server at Waid's in Prairie Village, KS, who has
been working there for over 20 years. Maybe he makes more than $2.13/hr
base pay after all those years. <shrug> Maybe he doesn't actually need to
work. He seems to like his job

Jill

Sqwertz wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' <Melba's Jammin' >>
> wrote:
>
>> Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
>> interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the March 10
>> entry.
>
> I'd bet the SF Gate has embellished this story a little. A single
> person, with a baby, and a car, and an apartment (the same apartment
> she had when she was doing OK) cannot live in Oakland on
> $1,200/month.
>
> 'Jane' (or the reporter) is probably a con-artist.
>
> -sw

Unless perhaps the Father of said baby or ex-spouse provides that in
some arrangement. Then the $1200/month might stretch for other living
expenses?

jmcquown wrote:

> If you look around, many of those servers are right out of high school
> or in college. They live with their parents or have a couple of
> roommates (been there, done that, starting back in the day before tips
> were taxed). Their priorities are different from those of older folks.
>
> When there were layoffs at the firm I worked at in 1990 I figured I'd
> get a job as a server to bring in some (minimal) cash while job hunting.
> (Restaurant hours don't generally take up your entire day, even if you
> work a split shift.) The manager who interviewed me said (not unkindly)
> I undoubtedly had more bills than the 18 & 19 year olds who were waiting
> tables there. So he hired me as a hostess with starting pay at $6.50/hr
> and he had me supplement those hours by doing the computer accounting
> work for that store.
>
> Having said that, there's a server at Waid's in Prairie Village, KS, who
> has been working there for over 20 years. Maybe he makes more than
> $2.13/hr base pay after all those years. <shrug> Maybe he doesn't
> actually need to work. He seems to like his job
>
> Jill

Just this weekend during some wedding toasts, I was hearing this funny
story the best man was sharing about he and the Groom being under-aged
teens who cleaned out a vacationing parents beer-fridge hosting some
parties. Then they had to come up with a way to restock it before the
parents came home. They asked another waiter where they worked to buy
all the beer for them since he was of legal drinking age. He bought the
beer.... which they again drank up and they had to go to him yet *again*
to refill the fridge. I asked them how they could afford this? They
replied they always had cash as they were getting about $80/night in
tips working at this rib shack type place.

Goomba38 wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> If you look around, many of those servers are right out of high
>> school or in college. They live with their parents or have a couple
>> of roommates (been there, done that, starting back in the day before
>> tips were taxed). Their priorities are different from those of
>> older folks. Jill
>
> Just this weekend during some wedding toasts, I was hearing this funny
> story the best man was sharing about he and the Groom being under-aged
> teens who cleaned out a vacationing parents beer-fridge hosting some
> parties. Then they had to come up with a way to restock it before the
> parents came home. They asked another waiter where they worked to buy
> all the beer for them since he was of legal drinking age. He bought
> the beer.... which they again drank up and they had to go to him yet
> *again* to refill the fridge. I asked them how they could afford
> this? They replied they always had cash as they were getting about
> $80/night in tips working at this rib shack type place.
>
Yep! Back in the day we had some pretty fun parties, very cheaply. (Legal
drinking age in TN back then was 18; it changed to 19 later, then 21.) The
tips were good (and at the time didn't count as taxable income). Any given
night I could count on having at least $60 cash in my pocket; much more
after a Friday or Saturday night shift. You could buy a lot of beer, chips
& dip with that!

Jill

Goomba38 wrote:
> Sqwertz wrote:
>> Melba's Jammin' <Melba's Jammin' >>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Leila Abu-Saba McLeod provides a link to an interesting story (and
>>> interesting comments) he http://bedouina.typepad.com/, the
>>> March 10 entry.
>>
>> I'd bet the SF Gate has embellished this story a little. A single
>> person, with a baby, and a car, and an apartment (the same apartment
>> she had when she was doing OK) cannot live in Oakland on
>> $1,200/month.
>>
>> 'Jane' (or the reporter) is probably a con-artist.
>>
>> -sw
>
> Unless perhaps the Father of said baby or ex-spouse provides that in
> some arrangement. Then the $1200/month might stretch for other living
> expenses?
>
That's possible. And I applaud the woman for making sure she buys good food
for herself and her child, not fast food crap (which, when you think about
it, really isn't cheap). Still, I haven't hopped on the
all-organic-all-the-time bandwagon, either.

Jill

"kilikini" > wrote in
:

> PeterLucas wrote:
>>
>> If TFM and Kili want a personal reference to facilitate their move to
>> Oz..... I'm here.
>>
>
> I'd move to Australia in a heartbeat! My great grandmother was born
> in St. Kilda, Victoria, so I'm an old Aussie at heart. :~)
>


Sorry to be the bearer or bad tidings Kili, but your Great Grandmother
was a damn *Mexican*!!!!



But yeah......... you've got some Aussie blood runnin' thru' your veins.


C'mon home.





I'll even give TFM a personal reference, so long as he gives up smoking.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli