PD wrote:
> On Mar 18, 9:49�am, DerbyDad03 > wrote:
>
> >
> > In desparate cases, when the ice cubes are removed by the human on a
> > regular basis (resulting in few, if any, strays) the mites have been
> > known to use their ice grabbing tenticles to create a small hole in
> > freezer bags, allowing in just enough moisture for frost to form on
> > the stored object. This gives them another source of ice to numb their
> > gums.
>
> On this note, it's been observed that if you want to freeze meat or
> fish or shrimp and have it be just as good months later, a good
> technique is to put the food in a ziplock bag and then fill the bag
> full of water before zipping the bag shut. Freezer burn is due to
> sublimation of the water in the food, and by the method just
> described, the added water does the sublimating rather than the food.

That's a good thing to think about.

> I tried this trick with same-day shrimp acquired in South Carolina in
> June, and I thawed the last 2-lb bag for dinner in January, and it
> tasted just like the shrimp cooked the first day.
>
> PD

We get roadside roasted green chile every fall and there ends up
being lots of great liquid. Twist the top making
an ice seal by having wet hands when you twist it closed and a year
later it still will have that great fresh roasted green chile flavor.

On Mar 18, 9:36*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>
> > You've gotten some good answers. *I asked a while back why a glass filled
> > with ice and water added doesn't overflow when the ice melts if you don't
> > drink any of the water *I can't for the life of me remember the answer
> > and am too lazy to Google for it. *It just seemed a curious thing to me.
>
> > Jill
>
> Most thing shrink when frozen. Water expands when it freezes and can exert a
> lot of pressure. *Thusly, when ice melts the volume decreases.

Most thing shrink when frozen

Which is why I avoid nude beaches when the water's cold.

PD wrote:
> On Mar 18, 11:55�am, Smitty Two > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I have a fridge\freezer with an ice maker. The automatic ice maker
> > > storage got high and a single ice cube got
> > > placed behind the large storage tray, it has sat there for a while,
> > > but started getting smaller, now it is
> > > almost nothing.
> >
> > > What causes this cube to get smaller in an environment that appears to
> > > stay the same?
> >
> > Other's have addressed your concern, but since you brought up ice cubes,
> > maybe I can hijack the thread for a moment and invite speculation on an
> > odd experience I had many years ago.
> >
> > In a standard plastic ice cube tray in my freezer, one of the cubes grew
> > a vertical icicle. Probably 1/2" to 3/4" long, and perfectly icicle
> > shaped, i.e., a long, narrow, pointed shape, roughly symmetrical but
> > with typical irregularities.
> >
> > I did keep it, but sublimation apparently ate it up after about a week.
> > Never seen it happen again, and never heard of it happening to anyone
> > else.
>
> http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s.../icespikes.htm

Good to hear it's not biological, yikes

On Mar 18, 8:15*pm, Puester > wrote:
- DerbyDad03 wrote:
-
- - I used to know a lot of facts about Archimedes but something
seems to have displaced that knowledge.


- Do you suppose it's due to too many baths?
-
- gloria p

Or from getting crowned...

notbob wrote:
> On 2008-03-18, PD > wrote:
>
> > described, the added water does the sublimating rather than the food.
> >
> > I tried this trick with same-day shrimp acquired in South Carolina in
> > June, and I thawed the last 2-lb bag for dinner in January, and it
> > tasted just like the shrimp cooked the first day.
>
> I agree. Used to be able to buy 4lb of shrimp in blocks of ice. It would
> keep almost forever and taste nearly fresh upon melting. These newer
> packaging methods using flash freezing are already somewhat mummified right
> out of the market. Nowhere near the moisture and freshness. This also
> works for fish you catch yourself. Put in topless milk cartons full of
> water and freeze. The meat retains it's firmness and moisture. I never
> tried this with other than fish or seafood. I'm not sure it would work too
> well with herd animal flesh. Maybe.
>
> nb

I used to always freeze fish in plastic grocery bags and they would go
bad pretty fast. A shame ending a fishes
life by keeping them and not even using them. The carton method isn't
very practical for me, Any ideas for
freezing fish to last at least a month?

> wrote in message
>
> I used to always freeze fish in plastic grocery bags and they would go
> bad pretty fast. A shame ending a fishes
> life by keeping them and not even using them. The carton method isn't
> very practical for me, Any ideas for
> freezing fish to last at least a month?

Vacuum sealer

jmcquown wrote:
> wrote:
> > I have a fridge\freezer with an ice maker. The automatic ice maker
> > storage got high and a single ice cube got
> > placed behind the large storage tray, it has sat there for a while,
> > but started getting smaller, now it is
> > almost nothing.
> >
> > What causes this cube to get smaller in an environment that appears to
> > stay the same?
> >
> You've gotten some good answers. I asked a while back why a glass filled
> with ice and water added doesn't overflow when the ice melts if you don't
> drink any of the water I can't for the life of me remember the answer
> and am too lazy to Google for it. It just seemed a curious thing to me.
>
> Jill

Very much good answers, it's nice to see people sharing their ideas
and knowledge.

As far as the ice water thing goes, I seem to remember some science
show explain it some years back.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > wrote in message
> >
> > I used to always freeze fish in plastic grocery bags and they would go
> > bad pretty fast. A shame ending a fishes
> > life by keeping them and not even using them. The carton method isn't
> > very practical for me, Any ideas for
> > freezing fish to last at least a month?
>
> Vacuum sealer

Cool, I will look into that. Very disappointing throwing fish or any
food for that matter away.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:37:45 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>Had a home for sale with a ice maker that sat vacant for several
>months, a idiot home inspector wrote up mal formed ice cubes from
>maker, because they had sublimiated away. true what was left of the
>cubes looked wierd.
>
>the deal fell thru buyer said your home has too many troubles.

Some refrigerators were made with a freon/thalidomide combination, and
that causes malformed ice cubes. Early imports from China.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:10:07 -0400, mm >
wrote:

>
>They make some ice-cube trays that are bottles with caps. I tried one
>and it worked but the cubes were little balls, and too small.
>
And this is why some people take the ice cubes out of the trays and
put them in bags, so they don't disappear.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:42:42 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>
>
>Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> >
>> > I used to always freeze fish in plastic grocery bags and they would go
>> > bad pretty fast. A shame ending a fishes
>> > life by keeping them and not even using them. The carton method isn't
>> > very practical for me, Any ideas for
>> > freezing fish to last at least a month?
>>
>> Vacuum sealer
>
>Cool, I will look into that. Very disappointing throwing fish or any
>food for that matter away.

I know how you feel. I don't like to waste food or anything, but it's
worse to waste meat and fish. They died so we could eat them. We
should do so.

I had one roommate whose father, he told me, worked at a state mental
hospital. He would bring home a lot of spaghetti, butter, 64 oz. cans
of corn, and several other things, all labeled Not for Sale. I think
his father bartered them in return for working on private cars for the
kitchen staff.

It was bad enough that they, he and his girl friend, stole from the
mental hospital, but worse that they let the food rot sometimes. One
64 oz. can of vegetables had about 8 oz. eaten and nothing more and
after long enough, it rotted.

And it wasn't a prison, the residents weren't even criminals, and they
still stole from them.

I didn't want to fight with them when they were living htere, but
after they left, I wrote them a letter saying more or less what I have
here. I'm sure his parents took even more food for his house than
these two did.

On Mar 18, 11:24*pm, mm > wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:10:07 -0400, mm >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >They make some ice-cube trays that are bottles with caps. *I tried one
> >and it worked but the cubes were little balls, and too small.
>
> And this is why some people take the ice cubes out of the trays and
> put them in bags, so they don't disappear.

Actually, I took them out of the trays and put them in bags so I would
have more than 24 cubes available.

In article
>,
PD > wrote:

> On Mar 18, 11:55*am, Smitty Two > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> > *monkey wrote:
> > > I have a fridge\freezer with an ice maker. The automatic ice maker
> > > storage got high and a single ice cube got
> > > placed behind the large storage tray, it has sat there for a while,
> > > but started getting smaller, now it is
> > > almost nothing.
> >
> > > What causes this cube to get smaller in an environment that appears to
> > > stay the same?
> >
> > Other's have addressed your concern, but since you brought up ice cubes,
> > maybe I can hijack the thread for a moment and invite speculation on an
> > odd experience I had many years ago.
> >
> > In a standard plastic ice cube tray in my freezer, one of the cubes grew
> > a vertical icicle. Probably 1/2" to 3/4" long, and perfectly icicle
> > shaped, i.e., a long, narrow, pointed shape, roughly symmetrical but
> > with typical irregularities.
> >
> > I did keep it, but sublimation apparently ate it up after about a week.
> > Never seen it happen again, and never heard of it happening to anyone
> > else.
>
> http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s.../icespikes.htm

Thank you!

mm wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:42:42 -0700 (PDT),
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> >> > wrote in message
> >> >
> >> > I used to always freeze fish in plastic grocery bags and they would go
> >> > bad pretty fast. A shame ending a fishes
> >> > life by keeping them and not even using them. The carton method isn't
> >> > very practical for me, Any ideas for
> >> > freezing fish to last at least a month?
> >>
> >> Vacuum sealer
> >
> >Cool, I will look into that. Very disappointing throwing fish or any
> >food for that matter away.
>
> I know how you feel. I don't like to waste food or anything, but it's
> worse to waste meat and fish. They died so we could eat them. We
> should do so.

We have a downstairs fridge and I put stuff it in there to thaw it out
and occasionally, rarely but occasionally, I will have this feeling
and go oh, and go downstairs and it's either complete relief or strong
disappointment cause we often buy in bulk.

I would rather just burn the money spent for it rather than throw the
stuff away.

> I had one roommate whose father, he told me, worked at a state mental
> hospital. He would bring home a lot of spaghetti, butter, 64 oz. cans
> of corn, and several other things, all labeled Not for Sale. I think
> his father bartered them in return for working on private cars for the
> kitchen staff.
>
> It was bad enough that they, he and his girl friend, stole from the
> mental hospital, but worse that they let the food rot sometimes. One
> 64 oz. can of vegetables had about 8 oz. eaten and nothing more and
> after long enough, it rotted.

When I get large cans of vegetables that's what were gonna have as
aprt of a couple of dinners, nice big piles,
(I love those canned mixed vegetables) Then it's on for a big pot of
vegetable beef soup\stew.

If anything is left over it's to the freezer.

>
> And it wasn't a prison, the residents weren't even criminals, and they
> still stole from them.

If you are talking about the kitchen they stole from?

That creates hassles for the cooks and people who take inventory,
innocent employees being accused of theft and the bottom line.

Prison though, I don't see it matters, if they steal from the kitchen
they still steal from somebody.

> I didn't want to fight with them when they were living htere, but
> after they left, I wrote them a letter saying more or less what I have
> here. I'm sure his parents took even more food for his house than
> these two did.

Yea I have seen this stealing and waste also. I've seen managers take
large unopened items then heard "I need another one because I left the
other one open." I say if your gonna steal it at least have some
respect for it. And don't think pretending you are entitled makes that
so, steal it, don't allow your co-workers to see what you are doing,
unless they do it too. Me I really don't want to see it.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:35:49 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>
>>
>> And it wasn't a prison, the residents weren't even criminals, and they
>> still stole from them.
>
>If you are talking about the kitchen they stole from?

I don't think this kid or his father did the stealing itself, but the
food was marked "Dept. of Agriculture" maybe iirc and definitely
marked Not for Resale. The father ran the autoshop at the hospital,
and he knew who his customers were and where the food was coming from.
And I'm sure the son did too and 10 to 1 odds he told his girlfriend.
They got married a month after they moved out of my place. He didn't
answer the letter I wrote him. Embarrassed or angry, I'm sure. I'd
guess the odds were 50/50 he stopped taking the food. By now he would
have children in college. Maybe three generations are eating off that
food.
>
>That creates hassles for the cooks and people who take inventory,
>innocent employees being accused of theft and the bottom line.
>
>Prison though, I don't see it matters, if they steal from the kitchen
>they still steal from somebody.

As far as their stealing goes, you're right, it doesnt' matter, it's
stealing from the state of NY either way. But I tried to foresee the
kind of excuse someone in this situation would use, like, if this were
a prison, "They are criminals and they don't get adequately punished
anyhow, and we're just treating them the way they should be treated."
But even that, as phony as it it, doesn't apply here.

>> I didn't want to fight with them when they were living htere, but
>> after they left, I wrote them a letter saying more or less what I have
>> here. I'm sure his parents took even more food for his house than
>> these two did.
>
>Yea I have seen this stealing and waste also. I've seen managers take
>large unopened items then heard "I need another one because I left the
>other one open."

Wow.

>I say if your gonna steal it at least have some
>respect for it. And don't think pretending you are entitled makes that
>so, steal it, don't allow your co-workers to see what you are doing,
>unless they do it too. Me I really don't want to see it.

> In article >,
Dave Smith > writes:

> There is a similar question about a boat full of iron ore sinking
> lock. in a canal The water level does not change because floating
> objects displace water equivalent to their weight.

Nope. The water level drops.

In the boat, the iron ore displaces a volume of water equivalent to its
weight. Once the ore sinks, it displaces only its own volume of water. As
water is significantly less dense than iron ore, the water level goes down.

You're confusing this puzzle with the one about floating ice cubes. Even Mr.
Wizard got that one wrong

In article >, Dave Smith > writes:
> There is a similar question about a boat full of iron ore sinking in a canal
> lock. The water level does not change because floating objects displace water
> equivalent to their weight.

And sunk objects displace water equivalent to their volume.

A boat full of iron ore has a density greater than that of water, else
it would not sink. Accordingly, the volume it displaces when sunk
is less than the volume it displaces when floating.

The level in the canal goes down.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:58:32 -0700 (PDT), PD
> wrote:

>On Mar 18, 11:55*am, Smitty Two > wrote:
>> In article
>> >,
>>
>> wrote:
>> > I have a fridge\freezer with an ice maker. The automatic ice maker
>> > storage got high and a single ice cube got
>> > placed behind the large storage tray, it has sat there for a while,
>> > but started getting smaller, now it is
>> > almost nothing.
>>
>> > What causes this cube to get smaller in an environment that appears to
>> > stay the same?
>>
>> Other's have addressed your concern, but since you brought up ice cubes,
>> maybe I can hijack the thread for a moment and invite speculation on an
>> odd experience I had many years ago.
>>
>> In a standard plastic ice cube tray in my freezer, one of the cubes grew
>> a vertical icicle. Probably 1/2" to 3/4" long, and perfectly icicle
>> shaped, i.e., a long, narrow, pointed shape, roughly symmetrical but
>> with typical irregularities.
>>
>> I did keep it, but sublimation apparently ate it up after about a week.
>> Never seen it happen again, and never heard of it happening to anyone
>> else.
>
>http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s.../icespikes.htm

ah, the romance of physics! pretty cool, p.d.

your pal,
blake

PD wrote:
>> You've gotten some good answers. I asked a while back why a glass
>> filled with ice and water added doesn't overflow when the ice melts
>> if you don't drink any of the water I can't for the life of me
>> remember the answer and am too lazy to Google for it. It just seemed
>> a curious thing to me.
>
> And the answer is that because ice is less dense than water, the
> volume of the ice when it melts (into water) becomes exactly equal to
> the volume under the waterline of the icecubes. This is in fact the
> discovery that Archimedes made a few years back.
>

Which is also why, if the entire Artic ice shelf melts, the ocean level will
rise exactly zero feet.

This is not true of the Antarctic ice fields - they've got southern ice.

If the Arctic ice melts, however, the salinity of the oceans will change and
all the fish will DIE. Bathers will no longer have to worry about sharks,
true, but Pirana will be able to live in the ocean...

On Mar 19, 10:50*am, "HeyBub" > wrote:
> PD wrote:
> >> You've gotten some good answers. I asked a while back why a glass
> >> filled with ice and water added doesn't overflow when the ice melts
> >> if you don't drink any of the water I can't for the life of me
> >> remember the answer and am too lazy to Google for it. It just seemed
> >> a curious thing to me.
>
> > And the answer is that because ice is less dense than water, the
> > volume of the ice when it melts (into water) becomes exactly equal to
> > the volume under the waterline of the icecubes. This is in fact the
> > discovery that Archimedes made a few years back.
>
> Which is also why, if the entire Artic ice shelf melts, the ocean level will
> rise exactly zero feet.
>
> This is not true of the Antarctic ice fields - they've got southern ice.
>
> If the Arctic ice melts, however, the salinity of the oceans will change and
> all the fish will DIE. Bathers will no longer have to worry about sharks,
> true, but Pirana will be able to live in the ocean...

This is also true. Unfortunately, if the Arctic ice fields melt, then
so do the Antarctic ice fields, though there may be some short-term
(~10 year) anisotropy. And there is far more ice in the Antarctic than
in the Arctic -- about 8 times as much.

PD

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> Nope. The water level drops.
>
> In the boat, the iron ore displaces a volume of water equivalent to its
> weight. Once the ore sinks, it displaces only its own volume of water. As
> water is significantly less dense than iron ore, the water level goes
> down.
>
> You're confusing this puzzle with the one about floating ice cubes. Even
> Mr.
> Wizard got that one wrong

But if the ore is more dense, it would not float in the first place by
itself. That is only a portion of the puzzle. The boat also had air
pockets, lighter material in the hull, etc. If all of it sinks and air
pockets remain, the level goes up.

If you took iron ore by itself, it would sink right away and raise the
level, but it never did float in the first place so it just moved water. .

On Tue 18 Mar 2008 01:57:07p, Serene Sprat told us...

> Nancy Young wrote:
>> "James Silverton" > wrote
>>
>>> As many people have said the cause is sublimation. Have you ever
>>> examined the ice-cube tray after a vacation? It will probably be quite
>>> apparent that the cubes are smaller than when you went away.
>>>
>>
>> My inlaws didn't use ice cubes. Before going over there for whatever
>> occasion, I'd remind them to refill the trays. It would be very
>> disappointing to go for dinner and find tiny little dehydrated cubes.
>
> We don't use ice cubes, either. It annoys some guests. I try to
> remember to make ice if we're going to have people over, but we have
> a lot of drop-in guests, and I don't use our scarce freezer space
> for something we don't usually use.
>
> (When I'm going to make ice cream, I run to the corner liquor store
> and buy a bag of ice.)
>
> Serene

We're all so different, which is not a bad thing. When we were renting a
house for 3-4 years before moving here, I felt I was being punished because
I didn't have an icemaker in the freezer. I was filling 4 ice cube trays
every day. We go through vast quantities of ice, as we both enjoy it in
almost every beverage. Then, too, I like having it available for making
chilled water baths in some food prep.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 03(III)/19(XIX)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
9wks 4dys 3hrs 5mins
-------------------------------------------
'Ethel the Aardvark was hopping down
the river valley ...'
-------------------------------------------

> wrote in message
...
>
>
> notbob wrote:
>> On 2008-03-18, PD > wrote:
>>
>> > described, the added water does the sublimating rather than the food.
>> >
>> > I tried this trick with same-day shrimp acquired in South Carolina in
>> > June, and I thawed the last 2-lb bag for dinner in January, and it
>> > tasted just like the shrimp cooked the first day.
>>
>> I agree. Used to be able to buy 4lb of shrimp in blocks of ice. It would
>> keep almost forever and taste nearly fresh upon melting. These newer
>> packaging methods using flash freezing are already somewhat mummified right
>> out of the market. Nowhere near the moisture and freshness. This also
>> works for fish you catch yourself. Put in topless milk cartons full of
>> water and freeze. The meat retains it's firmness and moisture. I never
>> tried this with other than fish or seafood. I'm not sure it would work too
>> well with herd animal flesh. Maybe.
>>
>> nb
>
> I used to always freeze fish in plastic grocery bags and they would go
> bad pretty fast. A shame ending a fishes
> life by keeping them and not even using them. The carton method isn't
> very practical for me, Any ideas for
> freezing fish to last at least a month?

Do what I mentioned earlier. I served salmon that had been iced this way a year
earlier to a very avid fisherman once. He complimented me on how fresh it
tasted.

The thicker layer of ice, the longer it lasts, so multiple coats help.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
t...
>
> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
>> Nope. The water level drops.
>>
>> In the boat, the iron ore displaces a volume of water equivalent to its
>> weight. Once the ore sinks, it displaces only its own volume of water. As
>> water is significantly less dense than iron ore, the water level goes down.
>>
>> You're confusing this puzzle with the one about floating ice cubes. Even Mr.
>> Wizard got that one wrong
>
> But if the ore is more dense, it would not float in the first place by itself.
> That is only a portion of the puzzle. The boat also had air pockets, lighter
> material in the hull, etc. If all of it sinks and air pockets remain, the
> level goes up.

Bzzzz! Sorry, you lose.

PD wrote:
>
> And the answer is that because ice is less dense than water, the
> volume of the ice when it melts (into water) becomes exactly equal to
> the volume under the waterline of the icecubes. This is in fact the
> discovery that Archimedes made a few years back.
>
> PD


Displacement, but not with ice. He used water displacement to prove
that a piece of gold wasn't pure, by comparing its displacement to a
piece of pure gold of the same weight. The only other way would have
been to melt it down to measure the volume.


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DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> Actually, I took them out of the trays and put them in bags so I would
> have more than 24 cubes available.


Not a good idea. Ice cubes only mate in the wild. If they don't
mate, they don't make more cubes. ;-)


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