Currenty I put just 3-5mm of watter at the bottom of a saucepan, put a
lid on, turn the gas down very low so that the flame just comes on,
and use this to steam steam vegetables, fish, meat together, which
works a treat because the water at the bottom collects the juices
which I can then use to flavour at the end. So I use everything and
the method is extremely economical since I barely use gas and not
waste energy heating water to heat vegetables and then throwing it
down the sink again.

Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I want it
to:

1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat the
water since there is a minimum amount required that will boil the
water and there is no need to go over this.

2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup full.

I have found that although gas is cheaper than electric on a purely
cost/energy basis, the advantage of gas over electric is lost if gas
is ignited in the air to heat things since some of the energy is lost
to the surroundings, whereas an electric element heating water gives
all of its energy to the water rather than the surrounding air. On the
other hand, a steamer for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2. above
but will an electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the requirements 1, 2
above and so a hob steamer is my only option.

Thanks for your advice.

blackhead aka emptyhead <larryhar> wrote:
>
> I have found that although gas is cheaper than electric on a purely
> cost/energy basis, the advantage of gas over electric is lost if gas
> is ignited in the air to heat things since some of the energy is lost
> to the surroundings, whereas an electric element heating water gives
> all of its energy to the water rather than the surrounding air.


That's not true, not unless the electric element is submersed in the
water like with an electric tea kettle, and even then some heat energy
is still lost to the atmosphere. Electric stovetop elements waste
just as much heat energy to the atmosphere as gas, maybe more because
to minimize loss with electric the pan needs to be dead flat, not so
with gas.

So your theory is dead worng, as back assward as can be... you don't
cook much, if at all.

Buh bye!

SHELDON

On 17 Apr, 14:28, Sheldon > wrote:
> blackhead aka emptyhead <larryhar> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have found that although gas is cheaper than electric on a purely
> > cost/energy basis, the advantage of gas over electric is lost if gas
> > is ignited in the air to heat things since some of the energy is lost
> > to the surroundings, whereas an electric element heating water gives
> > all of its energy to the water rather than the surrounding air.
>
> That's not true, not unless the electric element is submersed in the
> water like with an electric tea kettle, and even then some heat energy
> is still lost to the atmosphere. *Electric stovetop elements waste
> just as much heat energy to the atmosphere as gas, maybe more because
> to minimize loss with electric the pan needs to be dead flat, not so
> with gas.
>
> So your theory is dead worng, as back assward as can be... you don't
> cook much, if at all.
>
> Buh bye!

No, your misinterpretation of what I said is wrong.

At the very beginning I stated that I use a gas hob. This means that I
use *gas*, not electricity when steaming. Then I discuss the pros and
cons of using gas and electricity which implies that I'm considering
getting an electric hob to especially heat a steamer or... an electric
steamer that runs off the mains. Which do you think is the most
likely? I thought it would be then obvious that I was talking about
the heating element of an electric steamer, but not to you, it seems.

> SHELDON

blackhead > wrote:

> Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I want it
> to:

> 1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat the
> water since there is a minimum amount required that will boil the
> water and there is no need to go over this.

> 2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup full.

> other hand, a steamer for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2. above
> but will an electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
> electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the requirements 1, 2
> above and so a hob steamer is my only option.

I would assume that an electric steamer will have a thermostat, thus
only using enough energy to bring the water to a boil and then cycling
to maintain it. In other words, no need for a manual control.

As for requirement 2, I have no idea.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

said...

> blackhead > wrote:
>
>> Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I want it
>> to:
>
>> 1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat the
>> water since there is a minimum amount required that will boil the
>> water and there is no need to go over this.
>
>> 2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup full.
>
>> other hand, a steamer for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2. above
>> but will an electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
>> electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the requirements 1, 2
>> above and so a hob steamer is my only option.
>
> I would assume that an electric steamer will have a thermostat, thus
> only using enough energy to bring the water to a boil and then cycling
> to maintain it. In other words, no need for a manual control.
>
> As for requirement 2, I have no idea.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.


LOL! One tablespoon of water?!? That's gonna be a mighty tiny steamer. I
don't imagine you'll be able to steam anything substantial in it. Maybe
wilt paper!

Andy

"blackhead" > wrote in message
...
> Currenty I put just 3-5mm of watter at the bottom of a saucepan, put a
> lid on, turn the gas down very low so that the flame just comes on,
> and use this to steam steam vegetables, fish, meat together, which
> works a treat because the water at the bottom collects the juices
> which I can then use to flavour at the end. So I use everything and
> the method is extremely economical since I barely use gas and not
> waste energy heating water to heat vegetables and then throwing it
> down the sink again.
>

I'm all for keeping things simple. I loaned my crock pot out, never
got it back, and just LOVE having one less thing to store. I just
slow cook in a regular pot, while I am at home.

Your method sounds great. Yes, I know, this is not what you asked
about. Life is like that sometimes.

I am interested in some of these steamed dishes you make.

blackhead aka emptyhead <larryhar> wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > blackhead aka emptyhead <larryhar> wrote:
>
> > > I have found that although gas is cheaper than electric on a purely
> > > cost/energy basis, the advantage of gas over electric is lost if gas
> > > is ignited in the air to heat things since some of the energy is lost
> > > to the surroundings, whereas an electric element heating water gives
> > > all of its energy to the water rather than the surrounding air.
>
> > That's not true, not unless the electric element is submersed in the
> > water like with an electric tea kettle, and even then some heat energy
> > is still lost to the atmosphere. �Electric stovetop elements waste
> > just as much heat energy to the atmosphere as gas, maybe more because
> > to minimize loss with electric the pan needs to be dead flat, not so
> > with gas.
>
> > So your theory is dead worng, as back assward as can be... you don't
> > cook much, if at all.
>
> > Buh bye!
>
> No, your misinterpretation of what I said is wrong.
>
> At the very beginning I stated that I use a gas hob. This means that I
> use *gas*, not electricity when steaming. Then I discuss the pros and
> cons of using gas and electricity which implies

No one here is clairvoyant... shove your implications up your rectum.

> that I'm considering
> getting an electric hob to especially heat a steamer or... an electric
> steamer that runs off the mains. Which do you think is the most
> likely? I thought it would be then obvious that I was talking about
> the heating element of an electric steamer, but not to you, it seems.

Nope, I quoted you exactly and answered correctly.

Upun rereading your entire post I discovered it's practically all
gibberish except for the only relevant portion which I quoted, and
answered with exquisite accuracy.

Perhaps if you weren't so intent on verbosity you'd communicate more
accurately.

And if you want to buy an electric steamer appliance why do you need
to rationalize your decision by begging our permission/concurrance,
just buy it and ST****U.

On Apr 17, 12:28�pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "blackhead" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Currenty I put just 3-5mm of watter at the bottom of a saucepan, put a
> > lid on, turn the gas down very low so that the flame just comes on,
> > and use this to steam steam vegetables, fish, meat together, which
> > works a treat because the water at the bottom collects the juices
> > which I can then use to flavour at the end. So I use everything and
> > the method is extremely economical since I barely use gas and not
> > waste energy heating water to heat vegetables and then throwing it
> > down the sink again.
>
> I'm all for keeping things simple. I loaned my crock pot out, never
> got it back, and just LOVE having one less thing to store. I just
> slow cook in a regular pot, while I am at home.
>
> Your method sounds great. Yes, I know, this is not what you asked
> about. Life is like that sometimes.
>
> I am interested in some of these steamed dishes you make.

You would be interested in eating fresh excrement, ie. hot shit. <G>


Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

On Apr 17, 5:14*am, blackhead > wrote:
> Currenty I put just 3-5mm of watter at the bottom of a saucepan, put a
> lid on, turn the gas down very low so that the flame just comes on,
> and use this to steam steam vegetables, fish, meat together, which
> works a treat because the water at the bottom collects the juices
> which I can then use to flavour at the end. So I use everything and
> the method is extremely economical since I barely use gas and not
> waste energy heating water to heat vegetables and then throwing it
> down the sink again. [snip]

That's interesting but it's not what most people think of as
"steaming" and it's not what steamer appliances are designed to do.
Steaming, for most people, means boiling/simmering water to produce
steam. The food is raised out of the water, not in it, and the heat
is high enough to produce the initial boil, then lowered but still
high enough to continue production of steam. There's enough water,
an inch or two in depth, to keep producing steam throughout the
process. What you're doing sounds more like slow-cooking in minimal
water so you're looking for a crock pot, not a steamer.

As for your gas/electric comparison, it doesn't matter whether you're
right or wrong about thermal efficiency. The difference can't be
measurable in anything bigger than pennies/pence. -aem

On 17 Apr, 17:51, Sheldon > wrote:
> blackhead aka emptyhead <larryhar> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sheldon wrote:
> > > blackhead aka emptyhead <larryhar> wrote:
>
> > > > I have found that although gas is cheaper than electric on a purely
> > > > cost/energy basis, the advantage of gas over electric is lost if gas
> > > > is ignited in the air to heat things since some of the energy is lost
> > > > to the surroundings, whereas an electric element heating water gives
> > > > all of its energy to the water rather than the surrounding air.
>
> > > That's not true, not unless the electric element is submersed in the
> > > water like with an electric tea kettle, and even then some heat energy
> > > is still lost to the atmosphere. �Electric stovetop elements waste
> > > just as much heat energy to the atmosphere as gas, maybe more because
> > > to minimize loss with electric the pan needs to be dead flat, not so
> > > with gas.
>
> > > So your theory is dead worng, as back assward as can be... you don't
> > > cook much, if at all.
>
> > > Buh bye!
>
> > No, your misinterpretation of what I said is wrong.
>
> > At the very beginning I stated that I use a gas hob. This means that I
> > use *gas*, not electricity when steaming. Then I discuss the pros and
> > cons of using gas and electricity which implies
>
> No one here is clairvoyant... shove your implications up your rectum.

No one here, apart from you, has reading comprehension problems.

> > that I'm considering
> > getting an electric hob to especially heat a steamer or... an electric
> > steamer that runs off the mains. Which do you think is the most
> > likely? I thought it would be then obvious that I was talking about
> > the heating element of an electric steamer, but not to you, it seems.
>
> Nope, I quoted you exactly and answered correctly.

Nope, you have the reading comprehension of a child.

> Upun rereading your entire post I discovered it's practically all
> gibberish except for the only relevant portion which I quoted, and
> answered with exquisite accuracy.

Practically all jiberish? Just discussing the pros and cons of buying
a steamer which is relevant here since steamers are used in cooking
and this is rec.food.cooking.

> Perhaps if you weren't so intent on verbosity you'd communicate more
> accurately.

Verbosity makes a newsgroup more interesting if it's relevant. My
verbosity has spawned "Crockpot" which I and some others haven't come
across before, which after further Googling spawns "low temperature
cooking" which looks fascinating.

> And if you want to buy an electric steamer appliance why do you need
> to rationalize your decision by begging our permission/concurrance,

I'm not begging for information but simply giving my view in the hope
it leads to a discussion. It's called contributing to the newsgroup in
a positive way which you seem to lack. You need to learn to keep quiet
unless what you post is contributing to the newsgroup.

> just buy it and ST****U.- Hide quoted text -

With advice like that I hope you're not in authority over people,
including children.

> - Show quoted text -

On 17 Apr, 16:50, Andy <q> wrote:
> *said...
>
>
>
>
>
> > blackhead > wrote:
>
> >> Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I want it
> >> to:
>
> >> 1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat the
> >> water since there is a minimum amount required that will boil the
> >> water and there is no need to go over this.
>
> >> 2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup full.
>
> >> other hand, a steamer for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2. above
> >> but will an electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
> >> electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the requirements 1, 2
> >> above and so a hob steamer is my only option.
>
> > I would assume that an electric steamer will have a thermostat, thus
> > only using enough energy to bring the water to a boil and then cycling
> > to maintain it. *In other words, no need for a manual control.
>
> > As for requirement 2, I have no idea.
>
> > Bill Ranck
> > Blacksburg, Va.
>
> LOL! One tablespoon of water?!? That's gonna be a mighty tiny steamer. I
> don't imagine you'll be able to steam anything substantial in it. Maybe
> wilt paper!
>
> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

One tablespoon got me worried. It's more like 15 for what I want which
is more like 1/3 rather than 1/16 a cup that I said wrongly before.

Sheldon wrote:
> On Apr 17, 12:28�pm, "cybercat" > wrote:

>
> You would be interested in eating fresh excrement, ie. hot shit. <G>
>
>
> Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .
>
>
>
>

Sheldon,
I've read your posts off and on for a while now and I'd like to ask
you a question.
Why are you so god aweful rude to everyone?
Seriously, what gives?
I'm really curious.
George

"blackhead" > wrote
>With advice like that I hope you're not in authority over people,
>including children.


Larry, meet Sheldon. Sheldon is an asshole.

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon >
wrote:

>So your theory is dead worng, as back assward as can be... you don't
>cook much, if at all.

Why argue with a pig....you get all muddy and they like it.

blackhead > wrote in

s.com:

> Currenty I put just 3-5mm of watter at the bottom of a
> saucepan, put a lid on, turn the gas down very low so that the
> flame just comes on, and use this to steam steam vegetables,
> fish, meat together, which works a treat because the water at
> the bottom collects the juices which I can then use to flavour
> at the end. So I use everything and the method is extremely
> economical since I barely use gas and not waste energy heating
> water to heat vegetables and then throwing it down the sink
> again.
>
> Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I
> want it to:
>
> 1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat
> the water since there is a minimum amount required that will
> boil the water and there is no need to go over this.
>
> 2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup
> full.
>
> I have found that although gas is cheaper than electric on a
> purely cost/energy basis, the advantage of gas over electric
> is lost if gas is ignited in the air to heat things since some
> of the energy is lost to the surroundings, whereas an electric
> element heating water gives all of its energy to the water
> rather than the surrounding air. On the other hand, a steamer
> for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2. above but will an
> electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
> electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the
> requirements 1, 2 above and so a hob steamer is my only
> option.
>
> Thanks for your advice.

I use a steamer made for a microwave. Works for me.

On Thu 17 Apr 2008 05:14:54a, blackhead told us...

> Currenty I put just 3-5mm of watter at the bottom of a saucepan, put a
> lid on, turn the gas down very low so that the flame just comes on,
> and use this to steam steam vegetables, fish, meat together, which
> works a treat because the water at the bottom collects the juices
> which I can then use to flavour at the end. So I use everything and
> the method is extremely economical since I barely use gas and not
> waste energy heating water to heat vegetables and then throwing it
> down the sink again.
>
> Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I want it
> to:
>
> 1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat the
> water since there is a minimum amount required that will boil the
> water and there is no need to go over this.
>
> 2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup full.
>
> I have found that although gas is cheaper than electric on a purely
> cost/energy basis, the advantage of gas over electric is lost if gas
> is ignited in the air to heat things since some of the energy is lost
> to the surroundings, whereas an electric element heating water gives
> all of its energy to the water rather than the surrounding air. On the
> other hand, a steamer for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2. above
> but will an electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
> electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the requirements 1, 2
> above and so a hob steamer is my only option.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>

If you're so concerned about micro amounts of energy expended, perhaps it
would be better if you just ate everything raw.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 04(IV)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
5wks 3dys 3hrs
-------------------------------------------
Never trust a skinny cook.
-------------------------------------------

blackhead said...

> On 17 Apr, 16:50, Andy <q> wrote:
>> *said...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > blackhead > wrote:
>>
>> >> Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I want
it
>> >> to:
>>
>> >> 1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat the
>> >> water since there is a minimum amount required that will boil the
>> >> water and there is no need to go over this.
>>
>> >> 2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup full.
>>
>> >> other hand, a steamer for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2.
above
>> >> but will an electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
>> >> electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the requirements 1, 2
>> >> above and so a hob steamer is my only option.
>>
>> > I would assume that an electric steamer will have a thermostat, thus
>> > only using enough energy to bring the water to a boil and then cycling
>> > to maintain it. *In other words, no need for a manual control.
>>
>> > As for requirement 2, I have no idea.
>>
>> > Bill Ranck
>> > Blacksburg, Va.
>>
>> LOL! One tablespoon of water?!? That's gonna be a mighty tiny steamer. I
>> don't imagine you'll be able to steam anything substantial in it. Maybe
>> wilt paper!
>>
>> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> One tablespoon got me worried. It's more like 15 for what I want which
> is more like 1/3 rather than 1/16 a cup that I said wrongly before.


How exactly is 15 tablespoons equal to 1/3 cup?!?

And why didn't you just up it to 16 tablespoons and make it a cup?

If you're customarily using metric measurements there are conversion tables
everywhere on the web, before throwing out such ridiculously wrong numbers,
twice!

You're trolling, with way below average math skills to boot!

Andy

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:26:29 -0700 (PDT), blackhead
> wrote:

>On 17 Apr, 17:51, Sheldon > wrote:
>
>> just buy it and ST****U.- Hide quoted text -
>
>With advice like that I hope you're not in authority over people,
>including children.
>

are you kidding me? sheldon can't even control himself, let alone
anyone else.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:07:35 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"blackhead" > wrote
>>With advice like that I hope you're not in authority over people,
>>including children.
>
>
>Larry, meet Sheldon. Sheldon is an asshole.
>

but he's a good example thereof.

your pal,
blake

On Fri 18 Apr 2008 10:08:14a, blake murphy told us...

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:07:35 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"blackhead" > wrote
>>>With advice like that I hope you're not in authority over people,
>>>including children.
>>
>>
>>Larry, meet Sheldon. Sheldon is an asshole.
>>
>
> but he's a good example thereof.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>

The best!

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 04(IV)/18(XVIII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
5wks 2dys 13hrs 55mins
-------------------------------------------
I've always maintained that one should
never tangle with anything that has
more teeth than the Osmond family.
-------------------------------------------

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:07:35 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"blackhead" > wrote
>>>With advice like that I hope you're not in authority over people,
>>>including children.
>>
>>
>>Larry, meet Sheldon. Sheldon is an asshole.
>>
>
> but he's a good example thereof.
>

Yes. An asshole's asshole, as they say.

cyberWITCH crows:

> Yes. An asshole's asshole, as they say.


We see that you're not *too* shabbily for yourself in *that*
department today, cyberpussy...


--
Best
Greg

On 18 Apr 2008 01:05:56 GMT, sandi > wrote:

>I use a steamer made for a microwave. Works for me.

Those are about as nice as the microwave bacon trays. I'm sure that's
why you see them at resale stores and garage sales for $.25.

Lou

On 18 Apr, 11:06, Andy <q> wrote:
> blackhead said...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 17 Apr, 16:50, Andy <q> wrote:
> >> *said...
>
> >> > blackhead > wrote:
>
> >> >> Using a steamer will be more flexible, but at the very least I want
> it
> >> >> to:
>
> >> >> 1. Have a knob that controls the amount of power used to heat the
> >> >> water since there is a minimum amount required that will boil the
> >> >> water and there is no need to go over this.
>
> >> >> 2. Must be able to take a small amount of water, say 1/16 cup full.
>
> >> >> other hand, a steamer for a gas/electric hob satisfies 1. and 2.
> above
> >> >> but will an electric steamer? Looking through the Argos catalogue the
> >> >> electric steamers don't seem to satisfy any of the requirements 1, 2
> >> >> above and so a hob steamer is my only option.
>
> >> > I would assume that an electric steamer will have a thermostat, thus
> >> > only using enough energy to bring the water to a boil and then cycling
> >> > to maintain it. *In other words, no need for a manual control.
>
> >> > As for requirement 2, I have no idea.
>
> >> > Bill Ranck
> >> > Blacksburg, Va.
>
> >> LOL! One tablespoon of water?!? That's gonna be a mighty tiny steamer. I
> >> don't imagine you'll be able to steam anything substantial in it. Maybe
> >> wilt paper!
>
> >> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > One tablespoon got me worried. It's more like 15 for what I want which
> > is more like 1/3 rather than 1/16 a cup that I said wrongly before.
>
> How exactly is 15 tablespoons equal to 1/3 cup?!?

Because I poured what looked like the correct level of water into a
saucepan, measured it back into a cup using a tablespoon and it looked
1/3 full. Rather than cup, maybe it was more a mug


> And why didn't you just up it to 16 tablespoons and make it a cup?
>
> If you're customarily using metric measurements there are conversion tables
> everywhere on the web, before throwing out such ridiculously wrong numbers,
> twice!
>
> You're trolling, with way below average math skills to boot!

Lol, nah just ignorant when it comes to cooking. I've only just found
out from you and a bit of Googling that a cup is 16 tablespoons and
not...well, literally a cup/mug.
>
> Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -