George wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > George wrote:
> >> Dave Smith wrote:
> >>> "Pete C." wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Americans do it all the time, having enough money to be able to buy a
> >>>> house they like outside overcrowded urban areas.
> >>> Are they ready to reconquer the inner cities? Here in Canada we lead the same sort
> >>> of existence. Once fine neighbourhoods decayed and, other than the odd enclave,
> >>> people moved to the suburbs and commuted downtown to work. Now a lot of those
> >>> rundown old neighbourhoods have been yuppified and people have returned to the
> >>> city.
> >>>
> >> Thats happened/is happening big time in NYC and many sections of Philly.
> >> In NYC it has spilled out into the outer boroughs and places where no
> >> one wanted to live. It is actually getting hard to find run down areas
> >> there. Currently there is a big battle going on in Harlem because the
> >> people on 125th Street (essentially the Main St of Harlem) don't want
> >> their area nuked and paved for $1,000,000+ yuppie apartments that
> >> apparently have just been approved.
> >>
> >> It is even happening in my little area. In the past lots of people moved
> >> "out to the country". After years of extra hours/day of traveling etc I
> >> know quite a few who have moved back to the point where it is hard to
> >> find a place.
> >
> > Most of those folks moving into the cities are DINKs. People with
> > children are still moving further out to get safe yards for their
> > children to play in and better schools.
>
> I don't think so. We have a number of friends and family who have and
> they are raising families there and they like being there. We also go to
> NYC quite often and when you are out on the street in the non touristy
> areas it is clear there are lots and lots of families there.

Folks in the NYC and Boston dumps are just delusional, they don't count.
I've been to both places a number of times and both are indeed vast
garbage dumps that no rational person would ever want to live in.

"Pete C." > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
> George wrote:
>> > Most of those folks moving into the cities are DINKs. People with
>> > children are still moving further out to get safe yards for their
>> > children to play in and better schools.
>>
>> I don't think so. We have a number of friends and family who have and
>> they are raising families there and they like being there. We also go to
>> NYC quite often and when you are out on the street in the non touristy
>> areas it is clear there are lots and lots of families there.
>
> Folks in the NYC and Boston dumps are just delusional, they don't count.
> I've been to both places a number of times and both are indeed vast
> garbage dumps that no rational person would ever want to live in.

I wouldn'ìt like to think someone new might believe you. Most of us know
how arrogantly you present opinion as truth, but justy in case someone here
doesn't know you:

WHAT HE JUST SAID IS NOT TRUE.

On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:24:39 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:55:45 +0200, (Victor Sack)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Giusi > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Victor Sack" > ha scritto
>> >> >
>> >
>> >> > And my yearly mileage is probably higher than yours and Rob's together
>> >> > by factor of at least two or three.
>> >>
>> >> Not mine. I have restricted my movements so severely I am growing moss on
>> >> my north side.
>> >
>> >I wish I could do so, too. As it were, I have to drive at least 160 km
>> >(100 miles) every working day.
>> >
>>
>> isn't this unusual for a european? (americans do it all the time, not
>> having enough money to buy a house they like closer to work.)
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Americans do it all the time, having enough money to be able to buy a
>house they like outside overcrowded urban areas.

i guess they just dig those ninety-minute commutes.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 02 May 2008 07:05:25 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>George wrote:
>>
>> Pete C. wrote:
>> > George wrote:
>> >> Dave Smith wrote:
>> >>> "Pete C." wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Americans do it all the time, having enough money to be able to buy a
>> >>>> house they like outside overcrowded urban areas.
>> >>> Are they ready to reconquer the inner cities? Here in Canada we lead the same sort
>> >>> of existence. Once fine neighbourhoods decayed and, other than the odd enclave,
>> >>> people moved to the suburbs and commuted downtown to work. Now a lot of those
>> >>> rundown old neighbourhoods have been yuppified and people have returned to the
>> >>> city.
>> >>>
>> >> Thats happened/is happening big time in NYC and many sections of Philly.
>> >> In NYC it has spilled out into the outer boroughs and places where no
>> >> one wanted to live. It is actually getting hard to find run down areas
>> >> there. Currently there is a big battle going on in Harlem because the
>> >> people on 125th Street (essentially the Main St of Harlem) don't want
>> >> their area nuked and paved for $1,000,000+ yuppie apartments that
>> >> apparently have just been approved.
>> >>
>> >> It is even happening in my little area. In the past lots of people moved
>> >> "out to the country". After years of extra hours/day of traveling etc I
>> >> know quite a few who have moved back to the point where it is hard to
>> >> find a place.
>> >
>> > Most of those folks moving into the cities are DINKs. People with
>> > children are still moving further out to get safe yards for their
>> > children to play in and better schools.
>>
>> I don't think so. We have a number of friends and family who have and
>> they are raising families there and they like being there. We also go to
>> NYC quite often and when you are out on the street in the non touristy
>> areas it is clear there are lots and lots of families there.
>
>Folks in the NYC and Boston dumps are just delusional, they don't count.
>I've been to both places a number of times and both are indeed vast
>garbage dumps that no rational person would ever want to live in.

they don't want assholes like you there anyway.

your pal,
blake

Giusi wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> >
> > George wrote:
> >> > Most of those folks moving into the cities are DINKs. People with
> >> > children are still moving further out to get safe yards for their
> >> > children to play in and better schools.
> >>
> >> I don't think so. We have a number of friends and family who have and
> >> they are raising families there and they like being there. We also go to
> >> NYC quite often and when you are out on the street in the non touristy
> >> areas it is clear there are lots and lots of families there.
> >
> > Folks in the NYC and Boston dumps are just delusional, they don't count.
> > I've been to both places a number of times and both are indeed vast
> > garbage dumps that no rational person would ever want to live in.
>
> I wouldn'ìt like to think someone new might believe you. Most of us know
> how arrogantly you present opinion as truth, but justy in case someone here
> doesn't know you:
>
> WHAT HE JUST SAID IS NOT TRUE.

If you don't believe me, I invite you to visit NYC or Boston and any
suburban / rural location in the US and then you honestly tell me that
NYC and Boston are not garbage dumps. Both cities are littered with
garbage, graphiti, homeless people sleeping on the streets,
deteriorating buildings and infrastructure and crime. Both cities have
very high costs for run down housing, filthy public transit, hardly any
parking and what parking there is is exorbitantly priced. These cities
are the reason they make the little bottles of hand sanitizer since they
are so filthy you want to wash every time you have to touch something.
And yes, I have been to both cities at least a dozen times each and this
was my impression every time.

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:24:39 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >blake murphy wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:55:45 +0200, (Victor Sack)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Giusi > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Victor Sack" > ha scritto
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> > And my yearly mileage is probably higher than yours and Rob's together
> >> >> > by factor of at least two or three.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not mine. I have restricted my movements so severely I am growing moss on
> >> >> my north side.
> >> >
> >> >I wish I could do so, too. As it were, I have to drive at least 160 km
> >> >(100 miles) every working day.
> >> >
> >>
> >> isn't this unusual for a european? (americans do it all the time, not
> >> having enough money to buy a house they like closer to work.)
> >>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
> >
> >Americans do it all the time, having enough money to be able to buy a
> >house they like outside overcrowded urban areas.
>
> i guess they just dig those ninety-minute commutes.

Any responsible caring parent would tolerate a 120 minute commute if
that's what it took to protect their children from the filth, crime, bad
schools and lack of play space of the cities.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
>
> The message >
> from "Pete C." > contains these words:
>
> > Janet Baraclough wrote:
> > >
> > > The message >
> > > from "Pete C." > contains these words:
> > >
> > > > Janet Baraclough wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The message >
> > > > > from T > contains these words:
> > > > >
> > > > > > And it gets worse. They're predicting that within four years
> > > > > > we'll be
> > > > > > paying $7.00 per gallon.
> > > > >
> > > > > > A former co-worker and I sat down and determined what we
> > > > > > called the pain
> > > > > > point for gasoline. We concured on $6 per gallon.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The pain point is economic collapse btw.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. We're already paying 10 US dollars per UK gallon
> > > > > locally ( £5
> > > > > sterling per UK gallon). No economic collapse though road hauliers are
> > > > > having a seriously bad time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Janet, Scotland.
> > >
> > > > Yes, but the UK is vastly smaller than the US and has much more public
> > > > transit than the US, so the comparison just isn't there.
> > >
> > > http://www.cfit.gov.uk/docs/2001/sco...cot0122/06.htm
> > >
> > > Average annual car milage for UK domestic drivers, is 12,000 miles.
> > > What is it in America?
>
> > ~20k I believe.
>
> > >
> > > Because the UK is much smaller, we have to import far more of our
> > > supplies and their distribution requires fuel.
>
> > What do you think those container ships bringing everything to the US
> > from China run on?
>
> I should have spelled it out for you: we have to import food
> supplies. We don't have the space or climate to grow the volume and
> range of food supplies the US does. This is one reason why your food is
> so cheap compared with ours

Nor do we, which is why so much is coming from China. We're the idiots
trying to turn our cereal crops into motor fuel. At least nobody is
trying to turn my steak into biodiesel... yet...

>
> > > Outside of the main urban
> > > areas, public transport tends not to run conveniently for commuting to
> > > work (and it uses very expensive fuel) Fuel costs here hit every person
> > > whether or not they drive a car.
>
> > Your main urban areas with useable public transit cover a much larger
> > percentage of your total area than they do in the US. In the US it's not
> > uncommon for there to be 500 miles or more between cities large enough
> > to have any appreciable public transit. Looking at the England map on my
> > wall (I manage some stuff there), it looks like ~500 miles from
> > Berwick-upon-Tweed at the top to Isle of Wight at the bottom.
>
> England is not the entire UK, or even, the largest country in the UK.

No, but it's the map I have on my wall and it illustrates my point. The
UK is much more densely populated than the US and has a much higher
percentage of it's population with access to useable public transit. I'm
not doing the calculations, but I'm pretty sure most of the UK would fit
within the borders of Texas.

"Janet Baraclough" > wrote in message
...
> The message >
> from "Pete C." > contains these words:
>
>
>> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>> >
>> > The message >
>> > from "Pete C." > contains these words:
>> >
..<stuff snipped>
>> >
>> > > Yes, but the UK is vastly smaller than the US and has much more
>> > > public
>> > > transit than the US, so the comparison just isn't there.
>> >
>> > http://www.cfit.gov.uk/docs/2001/sco...cot0122/06.htm
>> >
>> > Average annual car milage for UK domestic drivers, is 12,000 miles.
>> > What is it in America?
>
>> ~20k I believe.
>
>> >
>> > Because the UK is much smaller, we have to import far more of our
>> > supplies and their distribution requires fuel.
>
>> What do you think those container ships bringing everything to the US
>> from China run on?
>
> I should have spelled it out for you: we have to import food
> supplies. We don't have the space or climate to grow the volume and
> range of food supplies the US does. This is one reason why your food is
> so cheap compared with ours
>
>> > Outside of the main urban
>> > areas, public transport tends not to run conveniently for commuting to
>> > work (and it uses very expensive fuel) Fuel costs here hit every
>> > person
>> > whether or not they drive a car.
>
>> Your main urban areas with useable public transit cover a much larger
>> percentage of your total area than they do in the US. In the US it's not
>> uncommon for there to be 500 miles or more between cities large enough
>> to have any appreciable public transit. Looking at the England map on my
>> wall (I manage some stuff there), it looks like ~500 miles from
>> Berwick-upon-Tweed at the top to Isle of Wight at the bottom.
>
> England is not the entire UK, or even, the largest country in the UK.
>
> Janet.

The entire UK will fit into Texas *twice* with room left over. We "import"
food from at least as far away as you do in the UK even though it's still
the same country.

Ms P

Pete C. wrote:
> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>> The message >
>> from "Pete C." > contains these words:
>>
>>> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>>> The message >
>>>> from "Pete C." > contains these words:
>>>>
>>>>> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>>>>> The message >
>>>>>> from T > contains these words:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And it gets worse. They're predicting that within four years
>>>>>>> we'll be
>>>>>>> paying $7.00 per gallon.
>>>>>>> A former co-worker and I sat down and determined what we
>>>>>>> called the pain
>>>>>>> point for gasoline. We concured on $6 per gallon.
>>>>>>> The pain point is economic collapse btw.
>>>>>> Nope. We're already paying 10 US dollars per UK gallon
>>>>>> locally ( £5
>>>>>> sterling per UK gallon). No economic collapse though road hauliers are
>>>>>> having a seriously bad time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Janet, Scotland.
>>>>> Yes, but the UK is vastly smaller than the US and has much more public
>>>>> transit than the US, so the comparison just isn't there.
>>>> http://www.cfit.gov.uk/docs/2001/sco...cot0122/06.htm
>>>>
>>>> Average annual car milage for UK domestic drivers, is 12,000 miles.
>>>> What is it in America?
>>> ~20k I believe.
>>>> Because the UK is much smaller, we have to import far more of our
>>>> supplies and their distribution requires fuel.
>>> What do you think those container ships bringing everything to the US
>>> from China run on?
>> I should have spelled it out for you: we have to import food
>> supplies. We don't have the space or climate to grow the volume and
>> range of food supplies the US does. This is one reason why your food is
>> so cheap compared with ours
>
> Nor do we, which is why so much is coming from China. We're the idiots
> trying to turn our cereal crops into motor fuel. At least nobody is
> trying to turn my steak into biodiesel... yet...
>
>>>> Outside of the main urban
>>>> areas, public transport tends not to run conveniently for commuting to
>>>> work (and it uses very expensive fuel) Fuel costs here hit every person
>>>> whether or not they drive a car.
>>> Your main urban areas with useable public transit cover a much larger
>>> percentage of your total area than they do in the US. In the US it's not
>>> uncommon for there to be 500 miles or more between cities large enough
>>> to have any appreciable public transit. Looking at the England map on my
>>> wall (I manage some stuff there), it looks like ~500 miles from
>>> Berwick-upon-Tweed at the top to Isle of Wight at the bottom.
>> England is not the entire UK, or even, the largest country in the UK.
>
> No, but it's the map I have on my wall and it illustrates my point. The
> UK is much more densely populated than the US and has a much higher
> percentage of it's population with access to useable public transit. I'm
> not doing the calculations, but I'm pretty sure most of the UK would fit
> within the borders of Texas.
No, no, we don't want them. Enough Yankee's moved to Texas in the
seventies and eighties to make Houston a very large city. <VBG>

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
>
>> > Your main urban areas with useable public transit cover a much larger
>> > percentage of your total area than they do in the US. In the US it's
>> > not
>> > uncommon for there to be 500 miles or more between cities large enough
>> > to have any appreciable public transit. Looking at the England map on
>> > my
>> > wall (I manage some stuff there), it looks like ~500 miles from
>> > Berwick-upon-Tweed at the top to Isle of Wight at the bottom.
>>
>> England is not the entire UK, or even, the largest country in the UK.
>
> No, but it's the map I have on my wall and it illustrates my point. The
> UK is much more densely populated than the US and has a much higher
> percentage of it's population with access to useable public transit. I'm
> not doing the calculations, but I'm pretty sure most of the UK would fit
> within the borders of Texas.

UK square miles, 94,399. Texas square miles, 261,797.

Ms P

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> On my way home from the supermarket I saw a BP (Nicollet & ~126th in
> Burnsville - between the Pkwy and 13) with gas at 3.529. I didn't read
> the fine print, but I assumed that was for regular; I stopped at the
> Holiday near me and filled up for $3.379 minus 11 cents/gallon with my
> Cub discount slips.
>
> Oh, the counter guy at the station had just returned from chasing a
> drive-off -- he got his license number. More and more of those
> happening.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ

We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving, other then one
day a week when I go up to my mom's.

When I was in South Dakota 2 weeks ago the price went up 36 cents over 4 days time!
It was about the same as MN...so was Wisconsin. A good deal cheaper than here.

kimberly

On Fri 02 May 2008 06:22:46p, Nexis told us...

>
> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On my way home from the supermarket I saw a BP (Nicollet & ~126th in
>> Burnsville - between the Pkwy and 13) with gas at 3.529. I didn't read
>> the fine print, but I assumed that was for regular; I stopped at the
>> Holiday near me and filled up for $3.379 minus 11 cents/gallon with my
>> Cub discount slips.
>>
>> Oh, the counter guy at the station had just returned from chasing a
>> drive-off -- he got his license number. More and more of those
>> happening. --
>> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
>
> We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving,
> other then one day a week when I go up to my mom's.
>
> When I was in South Dakota 2 weeks ago the price went up 36 cents over 4
> days time! It was about the same as MN...so was Wisconsin. A good deal
> cheaper than here.
>
> kimberly
>
>

If I look carefully, I can find regular for $3.29/gal. in downtown Phoenix,
but I'm sure it won't last.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 05(V)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
3wks 2dys 5hrs 20mins
-------------------------------------------
'You can't have a light without a dark
to stick it in' -- Arlo Guthrie
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
3.184:

> On Fri 02 May 2008 06:22:46p, Nexis told us...
>
>>
>> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On my way home from the supermarket I saw a BP (Nicollet & ~126th in
>>> Burnsville - between the Pkwy and 13) with gas at 3.529. I didn't
>>> read the fine print, but I assumed that was for regular; I stopped
>>> at the Holiday near me and filled up for $3.379 minus 11
>>> cents/gallon with my Cub discount slips.
>>>
>>> Oh, the counter guy at the station had just returned from chasing a
>>> drive-off -- he got his license number. More and more of those
>>> happening. --
>>> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
>>
>> We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving,
>> other then one day a week when I go up to my mom's.
>>
>> When I was in South Dakota 2 weeks ago the price went up 36 cents
>> over 4 days time! It was about the same as MN...so was Wisconsin. A
>> good deal cheaper than here.
>>
>> kimberly
>>
>>
>
> If I look carefully, I can find regular for $3.29/gal. in downtown
> Phoenix, but I'm sure it won't last.
>



1 gal = 3.7lts.

At the moment, we're paying between $1.37 - $1.44 per ltr.

http://motormouth.com.au/webwindows/...rbrisbane.aspx


Which equates to approx AUD$5.06 per gallon, which at todays exchange
rate works out to be USD$4.73


(I know........ I need a hobby!!)



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

You will travel through the valley of rejection;
you will reside in the land of morning mists...and you will find your
home,
though it will not be where you left it.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>> We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving,
>> other then one day a week when I go up to my mom's.
>> kimberly
>>
>>
>
> If I look carefully, I can find regular for $3.29/gal. in downtown
> Phoenix,
> but I'm sure it won't last.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright

I just saw this
http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080501/050...rice.html?.v=9

In Venezuela 12¢
" As of late March, U.S. gas prices averaged $3.45 a gallon. That compares
to over $8 a gallon across much of Europe, $12.03 in Aruba and $18.42 in
Sierra Leone."

On Fri 02 May 2008 07:55:09p, Edwin Pawlowski told us...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>>> We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving,
>>> other then one day a week when I go up to my mom's. kimberly
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If I look carefully, I can find regular for $3.29/gal. in downtown
>> Phoenix,
>> but I'm sure it won't last.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright
>
> I just saw this
> http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080501/050...rice.html?.v=9
>
> In Venezuela 12¢
> " As of late March, U.S. gas prices averaged $3.45 a gallon. That
compares
> to over $8 a gallon across much of Europe, $12.03 in Aruba and $18.42 in
> Sierra Leone."

Gas/petrol has always been at a huge price in UK/Europe compared to the
US. I can remember paying over the equiv. of %4.00/gal in UK when it was
just over a dollar here in the US>



--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 05(V)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
3wks 2dys 4hrs
-------------------------------------------
'Twas Brillig, and the slithey toves
did gyre and gimble in the wabe; all
mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome
raths outgrabe.

On Fri, 02 May 2008 11:58:03 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>Pete C. wrote:

>> No, but it's the map I have on my wall and it illustrates my point. The
>> UK is much more densely populated than the US and has a much higher
>> percentage of it's population with access to useable public transit. I'm
>> not doing the calculations, but I'm pretty sure most of the UK would fit
>> within the borders of Texas.
>No, no, we don't want them. Enough Yankee's moved to Texas in the
>seventies and eighties to make Houston a very large city. <VBG>

that's funny, i was wondering if we could arrange a swap.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 02 May 2008 10:03:08 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>
>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:24:39 -0500, "Pete C." >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >blake murphy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:55:45 +0200, (Victor Sack)
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Giusi > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Victor Sack" > ha scritto
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> > And my yearly mileage is probably higher than yours and Rob's together
>> >> >> > by factor of at least two or three.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Not mine. I have restricted my movements so severely I am growing moss on
>> >> >> my north side.
>> >> >
>> >> >I wish I could do so, too. As it were, I have to drive at least 160 km
>> >> >(100 miles) every working day.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> isn't this unusual for a european? (americans do it all the time, not
>> >> having enough money to buy a house they like closer to work.)
>> >>
>> >> your pal,
>> >> blake
>> >
>> >Americans do it all the time, having enough money to be able to buy a
>> >house they like outside overcrowded urban areas.
>>
>> i guess they just dig those ninety-minute commutes.
>
>Any responsible caring parent would tolerate a 120 minute commute if
>that's what it took to protect their children from the filth, crime, bad
>schools and lack of play space of the cities.

i guess parents are willing to work for nothing (a long commute is the
equivalent of a longer work day). i am not.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:
> On Fri, 02 May 2008 10:03:08 -0500, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:24:39 -0500, "Pete C." >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> blake murphy wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:55:45 +0200, (Victor Sack)
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Giusi > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Victor Sack" > ha scritto
>>>>>>>> And my yearly mileage is probably higher than yours and Rob's together
>>>>>>>> by factor of at least two or three.
>>>>>>> Not mine. I have restricted my movements so severely I am growing moss on
>>>>>>> my north side.
>>>>>> I wish I could do so, too. As it were, I have to drive at least 160 km
>>>>>> (100 miles) every working day.
>>>>>>
>>>>> isn't this unusual for a european? (americans do it all the time, not
>>>>> having enough money to buy a house they like closer to work.)
>>>>>
>>>>> your pal,
>>>>> blake
>>>> Americans do it all the time, having enough money to be able to buy a
>>>> house they like outside overcrowded urban areas.
>>> i guess they just dig those ninety-minute commutes.
>> Any responsible caring parent would tolerate a 120 minute commute if
>> that's what it took to protect their children from the filth, crime, bad
>> schools and lack of play space of the cities.
>
> i guess parents are willing to work for nothing (a long commute is the
> equivalent of a longer work day). i am not.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I don't get it either. It is a 7 hour at rush hour (round trip) commute
to NYC from nearby I live. Multiple developments filled with McMansions
have appeared in the former nearby rural areas where many of the people
commute to NYC. One of the newsmagazine programs had a feature on 2 of
them. The first declared that it was really really important to have a
big house/property etc and he couldn't have that living in NYC. So they
showed him getting in his big fluffed up truck at 3:30AM to drive into
NYC. He announced it was expensive to drive the truck (who would have
guessed?) but it was important to him to have a big vehicle. So here is
a guy assuming a 50 week year spending 1,750 hours/year commuting and
putting 70,000 miles on his truck doing it. They showed his wife who
also commuted at different hours so she took mass transit. What possible
quality of life could you have and how would their family even know who
they are?

In addition a relative is the police chief in one of the larger local
communities and he says they have huge problems with the latchkey kids.
Since the kids effectively don't have parents they are free to get
involved in whatever mischief they can think of.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> >> We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving,
> >> other then one day a week when I go up to my mom's.
> >> kimberly
>
> > If I look carefully, I can find regular for $3.29/gal. in downtown
> > Phoenix,
> > but I'm sure it won't last.
>
> > --
> > * * * * * * Wayne Boatwright
>
> I just saw thishttp://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080501/050108_usgas_price.html?.v=9
>
> In Venezuela 12¢


If you can find it. The socialist gov't. there has "fiddled" with gas
supplies, and their have been periodic riots over shortages, this
scenario has also occured in Iran. So much for Cuban - style
"socialism"...


> " As of late March, U.S. gas prices averaged $3.45 a gallon. That compares
> to over $8 a gallon across much of Europe, $12.03 in Aruba and $18.42 in
> Sierra Leone."


Wow, there is a functioning petrol station in Sierra Leone...!!!???


--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message

Wow, there is a functioning petrol station in Sierra Leone...!!!???


Probably a couple of drums and a siphon hose

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>>>> We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving,
>>>> other then one day a week when I go up to my mom's.
>>>> kimberly
>>> If I look carefully, I can find regular for $3.29/gal. in downtown
>>> Phoenix,
>>> but I'm sure it won't last.
>>> --
>>> Wayne Boatwright
>> I just saw thishttp://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080501/050108_usgas_price.html?.v=9
>>
>> In Venezuela 12¢
>
>
> If you can find it. The socialist gov't. there has "fiddled" with gas
> supplies, and their have been periodic riots over shortages, this
> scenario has also occured in Iran. So much for Cuban - style
> "socialism"...
>
>
>> " As of late March, U.S. gas prices averaged $3.45 a gallon. That compares
>> to over $8 a gallon across much of Europe, $12.03 in Aruba and $18.42 in
>> Sierra Leone."
>
>
> Wow, there is a functioning petrol station in Sierra Leone...!!!???
>
>
> --
> Best
> Greg
>
>
The only time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents American
per gallon. Gallons, not litres.

Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>

George

On Sat, 03 May 2008 12:02:54 -0400, George >
wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 May 2008 10:03:08 -0500, "Pete C." >
>> wrote:
>>

>>>>> Americans do it all the time, having enough money to be able to buy a
>>>>> house they like outside overcrowded urban areas.
>>>> i guess they just dig those ninety-minute commutes.
>>> Any responsible caring parent would tolerate a 120 minute commute if
>>> that's what it took to protect their children from the filth, crime, bad
>>> schools and lack of play space of the cities.
>>
>> i guess parents are willing to work for nothing (a long commute is the
>> equivalent of a longer work day). i am not.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>I don't get it either. It is a 7 hour at rush hour (round trip) commute
>to NYC from nearby I live. Multiple developments filled with McMansions
>have appeared in the former nearby rural areas where many of the people
>commute to NYC. One of the newsmagazine programs had a feature on 2 of
>them. The first declared that it was really really important to have a
>big house/property etc and he couldn't have that living in NYC. So they
>showed him getting in his big fluffed up truck at 3:30AM to drive into
>NYC. He announced it was expensive to drive the truck (who would have
>guessed?) but it was important to him to have a big vehicle. So here is
>a guy assuming a 50 week year spending 1,750 hours/year commuting and
>putting 70,000 miles on his truck doing it. They showed his wife who
>also commuted at different hours so she took mass transit. What possible
>quality of life could you have and how would their family even know who
>they are?
>
>In addition a relative is the police chief in one of the larger local
>communities and he says they have huge problems with the latchkey kids.
>Since the kids effectively don't have parents they are free to get
>involved in whatever mischief they can think of.

i had a friend at work in arlington co (va) who commuted from
baltimore. about an hour, but it was train/subway, and i think he
biked to the train station, so not too bad. he was an urban planner,
so the job market was tight.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 04 May 2008 07:34:17 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>
>> Wow, there is a functioning petrol station in Sierra Leone...!!!???
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best
>> Greg
>>
>>
>The only time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
>from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents American
>per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>
>Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>
>George

yabbut, what did whisky go for?

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
>>>> Any responsible caring parent would tolerate a 120 minute commute if
>>>> that's what it took to protect their children from the filth, crime,
>>>> bad
>>>> schools and lack of play space of the cities.
>>>
>>> i guess parents are willing to work for nothing (a long commute is the
>>> equivalent of a longer work day). i am not.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake

That 120 minute commute is time away from the children so that seems to make
the parents much less caring, IMO. My commute is plenty at 30 minutes.

I'm 70 miles from Boston and there are plenty of people in this town that
do the commute every day because the money is better than locally. In fact,
I bought my house from a couple that commuted in opposite directions. The
husband got a room in Boston to save time during the week, in bad weather
etc. One day he decided not to come home. Yep, I bought the house when
they divorced. Maybe that is better than subjecting their kids to the city
life.

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
>
> yabbut, what did whisky go for?
>
> your pal,
> blake

I'm told that many households do science experiments. In the interests of
good education, they do things like observe the effects of yeast and how it
makes grape juice into some other form.

On Sun, 4 May 2008 10:43:17 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>One day he decided not to come home. Yep, I bought the house when
>they divorced. Maybe that is better than subjecting their kids to the city
>life.

I hope that was dripping with sarcasm.

sf
city dweller

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smile first

"sf" <.> wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 4 May 2008 10:43:17 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
> wrote:
>
>>One day he decided not to come home. Yep, I bought the house when
>>they divorced. Maybe that is better than subjecting their kids to the
>>city
>>life.
>
> I hope that was dripping with sarcasm.
>
> sf
> city dweller

In answer to the previous poster, it was

Ed
former city dweller

"George Shirley" > ha scritto nel messaggio > The only
time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents American
> per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>
> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>
> George

As you allude, living there would not be worth cheap gas. There may come a
time when some must choose to be parted from their gas guzzler or move to
Saudi, though.

Giusi wrote:
> "George Shirley" > ha scritto nel messaggio > The only
> time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
>> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents American
>> per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>>
>> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>>
>> George
>
> As you allude, living there would not be worth cheap gas. There may come a
> time when some must choose to be parted from their gas guzzler or move to
> Saudi, though.
>
>
I went to the supermarket yesterday and when I came out I counted five
large SUV's sitting in the parking lot, doors locked, engines running. I
guess coming out into 85F heat and getting into a cool vehicle is cheap
enough with local gas running about $3.60 per gallon with discounts.

I've never been much on gas hog vehicles. Just sold my Hyundai Elentra
in February, it got 34 mpg average. Wife drives a Hyundai Accent, gets
about 36 mpg average. My Dodge Dakota is new enough that I haven't run
enough gas through it to see what the average is. I only drive about
6,000 miles a year anymore.

Heck, I'm old enough to remember paying 16.9 cents per gallon for gas
for my 1946 Chevrolet and having to buy it a dollar at a time. <VBG>

George

George Shirley wrote:
> Giusi wrote:
>> "George Shirley" > ha scritto nel messaggio > The
>> only time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
>>> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents
>>> American per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>>>
>>> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>>>
>>> George
>>
>> As you allude, living there would not be worth cheap gas. There may
>> come a time when some must choose to be parted from their gas guzzler
>> or move to Saudi, though.
>>
> I went to the supermarket yesterday and when I came out I counted five
> large SUV's sitting in the parking lot, doors locked, engines running. I
> guess coming out into 85F heat and getting into a cool vehicle is cheap
> enough with local gas running about $3.60 per gallon with discounts.


They do that around here when the weather is perfect. It is 65F here and
I stopped at the store for a couple items on the way home. There were 2
big piggy trucks parked in the lot with their engines running.

>
> I've never been much on gas hog vehicles. Just sold my Hyundai Elentra
> in February, it got 34 mpg average. Wife drives a Hyundai Accent, gets
> about 36 mpg average. My Dodge Dakota is new enough that I haven't run
> enough gas through it to see what the average is. I only drive about
> 6,000 miles a year anymore.
>
> Heck, I'm old enough to remember paying 16.9 cents per gallon for gas
> for my 1946 Chevrolet and having to buy it a dollar at a time. <VBG>
>
> George

On Sun 04 May 2008 03:14:30p, George told us...

> George Shirley wrote:
>> Giusi wrote:
>>> "George Shirley" > ha scritto nel messaggio > The
>>> only time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
>>>> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents
>>>> American per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>>>>
>>>> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>
>>> As you allude, living there would not be worth cheap gas. There may
>>> come a time when some must choose to be parted from their gas guzzler
>>> or move to Saudi, though.
>>>
>> I went to the supermarket yesterday and when I came out I counted five
>> large SUV's sitting in the parking lot, doors locked, engines running. I
>> guess coming out into 85F heat and getting into a cool vehicle is cheap
>> enough with local gas running about $3.60 per gallon with discounts.
>
>
> They do that around here when the weather is perfect. It is 65F here and
> I stopped at the store for a couple items on the way home. There were 2
> big piggy trucks parked in the lot with their engines running.

Apparently very stupid people with more money than sense.


>> I've never been much on gas hog vehicles. Just sold my Hyundai Elentra
>> in February, it got 34 mpg average. Wife drives a Hyundai Accent, gets
>> about 36 mpg average. My Dodge Dakota is new enough that I haven't run
>> enough gas through it to see what the average is. I only drive about
>> 6,000 miles a year anymore.
>>
>> Heck, I'm old enough to remember paying 16.9 cents per gallon for gas
>> for my 1946 Chevrolet and having to buy it a dollar at a time. <VBG>
>>
>> George
>



--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 05(V)/04(IV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
3wks 8hrs 35mins
-------------------------------------------
'I was up all night trying to round
off infinity...' -- Wright
-------------------------------------------

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
3.184...

>>> I went to the supermarket yesterday and when I came out I counted five
>>> large SUV's sitting in the parking lot, doors locked, engines running. I
>>> guess coming out into 85F heat and getting into a cool vehicle is cheap
>>> enough with local gas running about $3.60 per gallon with discounts.

> Apparently very stupid people with more money than sense.

Average car burns about a half gallon a hour at idle so figure it costs
about 4¢ a minute to idle. I do that if I'm going to be less than five
minutes in extreme hot or cold weather, not at 65 degrees. Otherwise, I use
the remote starter and only a minute or so before I reach the car.

George wrote:

> They do that around here when the weather is perfect. It is 65F here and
> I stopped at the store for a couple items on the way home. There were 2
> big piggy trucks parked in the lot with their engines running.

Those truck most likely have diesel engine and they use very little fuel to
idle. Most long haul trucks have sleeper berths for the drivers to have a rest
and they usually run the heater or air conditioning while catching a few hours
sleep.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> Average car burns about a half gallon a hour at idle so figure it costs
> about 4¢ a minute to idle. I do that if I'm going to be less than five
> minutes in extreme hot or cold weather, not at 65 degrees. Otherwise, I use
> the remote starter and only a minute or so before I reach the car.

Cars only need to idle long enough to get the oil circulating. The most
efficient way to do it is to start them engine, get the oil flowing and then
drive slowly for the first mile or two before pushing the engine hard. You don't
want to start the engine and then immediately push it to its limits, nor is it
reasonable to start it up and warm it up until the heater starts to push the hot
air.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sun 04 May 2008 03:14:30p, George told us...
>
>> George Shirley wrote:
>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>> "George Shirley" > ha scritto nel messaggio > The
>>>> only time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
>>>>> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents
>>>>> American per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>>>>>
>>>>> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>>>>>
>>>>> George
>>>> As you allude, living there would not be worth cheap gas. There may
>>>> come a time when some must choose to be parted from their gas guzzler
>>>> or move to Saudi, though.
>>>>
>>> I went to the supermarket yesterday and when I came out I counted five
>>> large SUV's sitting in the parking lot, doors locked, engines running. I
>>> guess coming out into 85F heat and getting into a cool vehicle is cheap
>>> enough with local gas running about $3.60 per gallon with discounts.
>>
>> They do that around here when the weather is perfect. It is 65F here and
>> I stopped at the store for a couple items on the way home. There were 2
>> big piggy trucks parked in the lot with their engines running.
>
> Apparently very stupid people with more money than sense.

Somehow I think that anyone who rationalizes driving a 5 ton truck for
personal transportation doesn't have the word waste in their vocabulary.

>
>
>>> I've never been much on gas hog vehicles. Just sold my Hyundai Elentra
>>> in February, it got 34 mpg average. Wife drives a Hyundai Accent, gets
>>> about 36 mpg average. My Dodge Dakota is new enough that I haven't run
>>> enough gas through it to see what the average is. I only drive about
>>> 6,000 miles a year anymore.
>>>
>>> Heck, I'm old enough to remember paying 16.9 cents per gallon for gas
>>> for my 1946 Chevrolet and having to buy it a dollar at a time. <VBG>
>>>
>>> George
>
>
>

Dave Smith wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> They do that around here when the weather is perfect. It is 65F here and
>> I stopped at the store for a couple items on the way home. There were 2
>> big piggy trucks parked in the lot with their engines running.
>
> Those truck most likely have diesel engine and they use very little fuel to
> idle. Most long haul trucks have sleeper berths for the drivers to have a rest
> and they usually run the heater or air conditioning while catching a few hours
> sleep.
>
>
>
Sorry. I wasn't talking about trucks used in commerce. I was talking
about the fluffed up 5 ton trucks many people think of as cars.

On Sun 04 May 2008 05:26:49p, George told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Sun 04 May 2008 03:14:30p, George told us...
>>
>>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>>> "George Shirley" > ha scritto nel messaggio >
>>>>> The only time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived
>>>>> there
>>>>>> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents
>>>>>> American per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> George
>>>>> As you allude, living there would not be worth cheap gas. There may
>>>>> come a time when some must choose to be parted from their gas
>>>>> guzzler or move to Saudi, though.
>>>>>
>>>> I went to the supermarket yesterday and when I came out I counted
>>>> five large SUV's sitting in the parking lot, doors locked, engines
>>>> running. I guess coming out into 85F heat and getting into a cool
>>>> vehicle is cheap enough with local gas running about $3.60 per gallon
>>>> with discounts.
>>>
>>> They do that around here when the weather is perfect. It is 65F here
>>> and I stopped at the store for a couple items on the way home. There
>>> were 2 big piggy trucks parked in the lot with their engines running.
>>
>> Apparently very stupid people with more money than sense.
>
> Somehow I think that anyone who rationalizes driving a 5 ton truck for
> personal transportation doesn't have the word waste in their vocabulary.

That's very typical here in Arizona. When we first moved here I couldn't
believe how many people drove trucks, including women, and most are clearly
not being used for business purposes.

>>>> I've never been much on gas hog vehicles. Just sold my Hyundai
>>>> Elentra in February, it got 34 mpg average. Wife drives a Hyundai
>>>> Accent, gets about 36 mpg average. My Dodge Dakota is new enough that
>>>> I haven't run enough gas through it to see what the average is. I
>>>> only drive about 6,000 miles a year anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Heck, I'm old enough to remember paying 16.9 cents per gallon for gas
>>>> for my 1946 Chevrolet and having to buy it a dollar at a time. <VBG>
>>>>
>>>> George
>>
>>
>>
>



--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 05(V)/04(IV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
3wks 6hrs 20mins
-------------------------------------------
Ooooooeee! They sure serve up them
four-year-olds good, don't they?
-------------------------------------------

George wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>
>>> They do that around here when the weather is perfect. It is 65F here and
>>> I stopped at the store for a couple items on the way home. There were 2
>>> big piggy trucks parked in the lot with their engines running.
>>--------------
>>
> Sorry. I wasn't talking about trucks used in commerce. I was talking
> about the fluffed up 5 ton trucks many people think of as cars.


There must be a majority of honest people in your area.

Many of the cities in the Denver area have made it illegal to leave an
unattended vehicle running because of the many car thefts that have
occurred as a result. People without garages used to start their cars
in cold weather and run back into the house for breakfast so that the
heater would be working and the car would be cozy by the time it was
time to leave. Car thieves caught on quickly.

gloria p

In article >,
says...
> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> >> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> >>>> We've hit $4+ here for regular. Luckily, I don't do alot of driving,
> >>>> other then one day a week when I go up to my mom's.
> >>>> kimberly
> >>> If I look carefully, I can find regular for $3.29/gal. in downtown
> >>> Phoenix,
> >>> but I'm sure it won't last.
> >>> --
> >>> Wayne Boatwright
> >> I just saw thishttp://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080501/050108_usgas_price.html?.v=9
> >>
> >> In Venezuela 12¢
> >
> >
> > If you can find it. The socialist gov't. there has "fiddled" with gas
> > supplies, and their have been periodic riots over shortages, this
> > scenario has also occured in Iran. So much for Cuban - style
> > "socialism"...
> >
> >
> >> " As of late March, U.S. gas prices averaged $3.45 a gallon. That compares
> >> to over $8 a gallon across much of Europe, $12.03 in Aruba and $18.42 in
> >> Sierra Leone."
> >
> >
> > Wow, there is a functioning petrol station in Sierra Leone...!!!???
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best
> > Greg
> >
> >
> The only time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents American
> per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
>
> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
>
> George
>

Odd, as a man you had all the benefits of living in the Kingdom. But I
know it's also a very xenophobic culture too so that's probaby what
you're talking about.

In article >,
says...
> Giusi wrote:
> > "George Shirley" > ha scritto nel messaggio > The only
> > time I miss Saudi Arabia is when gas prices go up. Lived there
> >> from 1980 to 1986 and gasoline (leaded)sold for about 25 cents American
> >> per gallon. Gallons, not litres.
> >>
> >> Naw, I really don't miss it at all. <VBG>
> >>
> >> George
> >
> > As you allude, living there would not be worth cheap gas. There may come a
> > time when some must choose to be parted from their gas guzzler or move to
> > Saudi, though.
> >
> >
> I went to the supermarket yesterday and when I came out I counted five
> large SUV's sitting in the parking lot, doors locked, engines running. I
> guess coming out into 85F heat and getting into a cool vehicle is cheap
> enough with local gas running about $3.60 per gallon with discounts.
>
> I've never been much on gas hog vehicles. Just sold my Hyundai Elentra
> in February, it got 34 mpg average. Wife drives a Hyundai Accent, gets
> about 36 mpg average. My Dodge Dakota is new enough that I haven't run
> enough gas through it to see what the average is. I only drive about
> 6,000 miles a year anymore.
>
> Heck, I'm old enough to remember paying 16.9 cents per gallon for gas
> for my 1946 Chevrolet and having to buy it a dollar at a time. <VBG>
>
> George
>

Yes indeed, my father tells stories about how cheap gas was even in the
1950's.

I remember when I got my license in 1981 gasoline could be had for 89
cents a gallon.

That said, the gas prices really are putting the crunch on everyone
around here. Restaurants note traffic down, the large supermarket chains
note sales down yet Price Rite sales are up, people are walking or
biking to school and work more, etc.

More than likely we'll see a very big decrease in the amount of fuel we
use.

What really concerns me is the price of home heating oil. That is
absolutely insane. I suspect we'll have a lot of corpsicles next year.