From: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/bu...b&e i=5087%0A

The United States uses - or throws away - 3,770 calories
a person each day, according to data from the United Nations
Food and Agriculture Organization collected in 2001-3, compared
with 2,440 calories per person in India.

[..]

Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
international trade, economics and the environment of
CUTS International, an independent research institute
based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.

He added, archly, that the money spent in the United
States on liposuction to get rid of fat from excess
consumption could be funneled to feed famine victims.

Mr. Mehta's comments may sound like the macroeconomic
equivalent of "so's your old man", but they reflect genuine
outrage and ballooning criticism toward the United States
in particular, over recent remarks by President Bush.


Steve

Steve Pope > wrote:

> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
> international trade, economics and the environment of
> CUTS International, an independent research institute
> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.

**** 'em. If they want to come over here and dig through our
garbage for the scraps, then let them. Otherwise their food
problems are their own problems.

India has the richest and the poorest people on the planet. They
need to start criticizing their own and looking inward for somebody
to blame first. It's not like Americans haven't been responsible
for hundreds of billions of dollars being cycled throughout their
economy in the last few decades.

-sw

Bit of a crap post really.

What is meant by the US uses or throws away 3770 calories per person? Does
this include waste food and drink from retailers? Is this uses, or is
thrown away? Does this include trimming the fat off meat? Etc...


"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> From:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/bu...b&e i=5087%0A
>
> The United States uses - or throws away - 3,770 calories
> a person each day, according to data from the United Nations
> Food and Agriculture Organization collected in 2001-3, compared
> with 2,440 calories per person in India.
>
> [..]
>
> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
> international trade, economics and the environment of
> CUTS International, an independent research institute
> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>
> He added, archly, that the money spent in the United
> States on liposuction to get rid of fat from excess
> consumption could be funneled to feed famine victims.
>
> Mr. Mehta's comments may sound like the macroeconomic
> equivalent of "so's your old man", but they reflect genuine
> outrage and ballooning criticism toward the United States
> in particular, over recent remarks by President Bush.
>
>
> Steve

Ali > wrote:

>Bit of a crap post really.

I posted it because I am interested in the U.S.'s image around
the world, and it seems the current administration has found
yet another way to offend just about everybody.

> What is meant by the US uses or throws away 3770 calories per
> person? Does this include waste food and drink from retailers?

I assume so. I've read elsewhere that over half the food
produced for consumption in the U.S. is thrown away.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:

> Ali > wrote:
> >Bit of a crap post really.
>
> I posted it because I am interested in the U.S.'s image around
> the world, and it seems the current administration has found
> yet another way to offend just about everybody.


NOBODY cares what a bunch of anti - US pukes think, Steve...you are
simply being naive. Many foreigners would loathe us whatever we
do...even if we fed, clothed, and housed them. Which we've done for
many around the world. We are the *most* generous country in the
world when it comes to helping out others with food or whatever aid...

[And that INCLUDES military aid, especially the "nuclear umbrella" and
our on - the - ground troop presence that we've provided for our
allies since WWII...that is a HUGE cost and contributes to peace,
stability, and prosperity too...ask someone in South Korea or the
former West Germany...]

And as for the "current administration", take a look - see at our
approval ratings in various countries during the Clintoon
administration. They were in many cases no better, if not worse...



> > What is meant by the US uses or throws away 3770 calories per
> > person? *Does this include waste food and drink from retailers?
>
> I assume so. *I've read elsewhere that over half the food
> produced for consumption in the U.S. is thrown away. *


Isn't it GREAT to be rich, white, and American, Steve...???


--
Best
Greg

Well, my 3 cents, and I'm open to correction-

1) It is true that many (not all) Americans overeat and are wasteful.
It is pretty disgusting.
2) While the Fat Stupid Americans are a shining example of what it is
like to live in ridiculous excess, they are not entirely the only
culture like this.

-however-

3) I don't see the connection to India's food supply problem. It is
being presented as if the United States' lavishness is the primary
reason why people in India and northern Africa are starving. I may be
ignorant, but I see no citation in the article that explains that.
They state that "When it comes to trade, Western farming subsidies
undercut agricultural production in fertile areas of Africa, India’s
commerce minister, Kamal Nath, said", but does that suggest that North
American crops are being sold cheaper than local crops? Wouldn't that
make food more accessible than less so?

-J

Gregory Morrow > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> I posted it because I am interested in the U.S.'s image around
>> the world, and it seems the current administration has found
>> yet another way to offend just about everybody.

>NOBODY cares what a bunch of anti - US pukes think, Steve...you are
>simply being naive. Many foreigners would loathe us whatever we
>do...even if we fed, clothed, and housed them. Which we've done for
>many around the world. We are the *most* generous country in the
>world when it comes to helping out others with food or whatever aid...

>[And that INCLUDES military aid, especially the "nuclear umbrella" and
>our on - the - ground troop presence that we've provided for our
>allies since WWII...that is a HUGE cost and contributes to peace,
>stability, and prosperity too...ask someone in South Korea or the
>former West Germany...]

Yeah, I've lived abroad, I've traveled abroad and I can tell
you in the past 40 years there has been a steady decline in affection
for Americans, including a particularly steep drop in the last few.
It is definitely not of case of "they'll hate us no matter what".
Nowhere close to that.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:

> I posted it because I am interested in the U.S.'s image around
> the world, and it seems the current administration has found
> yet another way to offend just about everybody.
>
> > What is meant by the US uses or throws away 3770 calories per
> > person? Does this include waste food and drink from retailers?
>
> I assume so. I've read elsewhere that over half the food
> produced for consumption in the U.S. is thrown away.

These factoids make me wonder. I am not American but I think our
Canadian practices are pretty close to those in the US. Sometimes I
cook a little too much porridge and throw out the extra, maybe a half
a serving. When I cook I make just enough for the two of us. I peel
the vegetables and put the peelings in the composter. I also compost
egg shells. I don't eat big chunks of fat on meat, but my wife does.
I discard the skin and core from pineapples, banana peels. citrus
peels. You would be hard pressed to feed a person on what we throw
out each week.

However..... if they are worried about food waster...... These
factoids indicate that Americans through out about 50% more food than
Indians. There are at least three times as many Indians as Americans,
that would mean that the people in India throw out twice as much food
as the American people.

Steve Pope wrote:

> Yeah, I've lived abroad, I've traveled abroad and I can tell
> you in the past 40 years there has been a steady decline in affection
> for Americans, including a particularly steep drop in the last few.
> It is definitely not of case of "they'll hate us no matter what".
> Nowhere close to that.
>
> Steve

One apparently reason is that younger European generations don't have
first hand memories of the time American's stepped in during WW2 and
helped them during or after the war.

Steve Pope wrote:
> Ali > wrote:
>
>> Bit of a crap post really.
>
> I posted it because I am interested in the U.S.'s image around
> the world, and it seems the current administration has found
> yet another way to offend just about everybody.
>
It would be more appropriate discussion on a current events or political
board, IMO.

Steve Pope wrote:

> Ali > wrote:
>
>>Bit of a crap post really.
>
> I posted it because I am interested in the U.S.'s image around
> the world, and it seems the current administration has found
> yet another way to offend just about everybody.

Golly. Who knew that we've only been eating better than the Indians for
the last eight years? I guess all of those "clean your plate - millions
are starving in India" comments I heard growing up in the mid-20th century
were coming from fortune tellers!


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
NEW --> Now evaluating a GG-free news feed: http://usenet4all.se

Goomba38 > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> Yeah, I've lived abroad, I've traveled abroad and I can tell
>> you in the past 40 years there has been a steady decline in affection
>> for Americans, including a particularly steep drop in the last few.
>> It is definitely not of case of "they'll hate us no matter what".
>> Nowhere close to that.

>One apparently reason is that younger European generations don't have
>first hand memories of the time American's stepped in during WW2 and
>helped them during or after the war.

I'm sure that's part of it.

Steve

On May 14, 3:13*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> From:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/bu...s/14food.html?....
>
> * * *The United States uses - or throws away - 3,770 calories
> * * *a person each day, according to data from the United Nations
> * * *Food and Agriculture Organization collected in 2001-3, compared
> * * *with 2,440 calories per person in India.
>
> * * *[..]
>
> * * *Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
> * * *international trade, economics and the environment of
> * * *CUTS International, an independent research institute
> * * *based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
> * * *weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
> * * *sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>
> * * *He added, archly, that the money spent in the United
> * * *States on liposuction to get rid of fat from excess
> * * *consumption could be funneled to feed famine victims.
>
> * * *Mr. Mehta's comments may sound like the macroeconomic
> * * *equivalent of "so's your old man", but they reflect genuine
> * * *outrage and ballooning criticism toward the United States
> * * *in particular, over recent remarks by President Bush.
>

The story goes on to be a bit more balanced. At a recent press
conference, Bush was asked to comment about food price increases here
in the U.S. He gave an ignorant response that has been widely
reported and discussed in India. Basically he tried to blame it on the
growth of the Indian middle class. This is the context in which this
Indian talking head made his snide remarks. The whole thing is not
substantive, it's just a dumb politician's remark evoking dumb
responses.

You didn't quote this apropos remark a couple of paragraphs later:

In response to the president’s remarks, a ranking official
in the commerce ministry, Jairam Ramesh, told the Press
Trust of India, “George Bush has never been known for his
knowledge of economics,” and the remarks proved again
how “comprehensively wrong” he is.

aem > wrote:

>The story goes on to be a bit more balanced. At a recent press
>conference, Bush was asked to comment about food price increases here
>in the U.S. He gave an ignorant response that has been widely
>reported and discussed in India. Basically he tried to blame it on the
>growth of the Indian middle class. This is the context in which this
>Indian talking head made his snide remarks. The whole thing is not
>substantive, it's just a dumb politician's remark evoking dumb
>responses.

On one level it certainly is a dumb remark evoking other
dumb remarks.

On another level the U.S. has a substantive problem with
over-consumption, primarily of energy but perhaps of food
resources as well. The Bush remarks were a lightning rod
for criticism of bad U.S. policy. Some better policy choices
by the U.S. might both improve its image and help out people
around the world as well.

Steve

Dave Smith wrote:

> These factoids make me wonder. I am not American but I think our
> Canadian practices are pretty close to those in the US. Sometimes I
> cook a little too much porridge and throw out the extra, maybe a half
> a serving. When I cook I make just enough for the two of us. I peel
> the vegetables and put the peelings in the composter. I also compost
> egg shells. I don't eat big chunks of fat on meat, but my wife does.
> I discard the skin and core from pineapples, banana peels. citrus
> peels. You would be hard pressed to feed a person on what we throw
> out each week.

Amazing.. how similar we can be and do the same things as you and your
wife, yet is anyone complaining about the Canadians? LOL

Blinky the Shark wrote:
> Steve Pope wrote:
>
>> Ali > wrote:
>>
>>> Bit of a crap post really.
>> I posted it because I am interested in the U.S.'s image around
>> the world, and it seems the current administration has found
>> yet another way to offend just about everybody.
>
> Golly. Who knew that we've only been eating better than the Indians for
> the last eight years? I guess all of those "clean your plate - millions
> are starving in India" comments I heard growing up in the mid-20th century
> were coming from fortune tellers!
>
>
One of my cousins, back in the late forties, when told by my Grandmother
to "eat it all up", Chinese children are starving, replied that he would
pay the postage if she would send the meal to China. The whole family
broke out laughing as my grannie was not considered a top cook.

Ali wrote:
> Bit of a crap post really.
>
> What is meant by the US uses or throws away 3770 calories per person?
> Does this include waste food and drink from retailers? Is this uses,
> or is thrown away? Does this include trimming the fat off meat?
> Etc...
>
Similarly, I heard last night that people in a UK household throw away 1/3rd
of their food a month. Who conducts these studies?! Who was going through
trash bins to figure out how much was bought, used, consumed vs. discarded?

Jill

jmcquown wrote:

> Similarly, I heard last night that people in a UK household throw away 1/3rd
> of their food a month. Who conducts these studies?! Who was going through
> trash bins to figure out how much was bought, used, consumed vs. discarded?
>
> Jill

If you listen to one of the Tilea Infomercials....well... to hear them
put it we ALL toss away tons of food.
Of course they are trying to sell us something.
Now I wonder, do they count against us (America as the collective guilty
party in this whinefest) the parts we don't commonly use like entrails,
rocky mountain oysters, brains, etc? Parts of the animal or plant that
don't even come into our homes yet *could* be eaten if one was
inclined.....?

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>
> He added, archly, that the money spent in the United
> States on liposuction to get rid of fat from excess
> consumption could be funneled to feed famine victims.

I see a solution here. That fat from liposuction can be blended with tofu
and used to feed others. Where do I donate?

George Shirley wrote:
> One of my cousins, back in the late forties, when told by my
> Grandmother to "eat it all up", Chinese children are starving,
> replied that he would pay the postage if she would send the meal to
> China. The whole family broke out laughing as my grannie was not
> considered a top cook.

That was a familiar scene in my generation in UK too

"Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Steve Pope > wrote:
>
>> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
>> international trade, economics and the environment of
>> CUTS International, an independent research institute
>> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
>> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
>> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>
> **** 'em. If they want to come over here and dig through our
> garbage for the scraps, then let them. Otherwise their food
> problems are their own problems.

This is a stereotypical American statement and is the perfect expression of
what is known as the Ugly American these days. It is also immoral even to
non-religious.

Give me one reason why you should throw away food grown using finite
resources such as petroleum and thus put food out of the reach of any other
human being who is willing to work for his food?

India may have some rich people, but they do not have the richest on the
planet. They have plenty of poor, too. The point is not India, but
everybody who will shortly not be able to eat properly to support good
health, in every country including yours, because of waste. It isn't just
the USA, either. It was written that one-third of food in the UK was thrown
away, too.

"Goomba38" > ha scritto nel messaggio
. ..
> Steve Pope wrote:

> One apparently reason is that younger European generations don't have
> first hand memories of the time American's stepped in during WW2 and
> helped them during or after the war.

Of course they don't, and they do not out of hand hate Americans, either.
What they decry is arrogance, insensitivity and lack of understanding of the
basic laws of nature. The more people say **** 'em about dying populations,
the more there is to resent.

I think some here should look up generosity indexes that tell per person of
population figures. You might be surprised-- or I might.

Giusi wrote:

> Of course they don't, and they do not out of hand hate Americans, either.
> What they decry is arrogance, insensitivity and lack of understanding of the
> basic laws of nature. The more people say **** 'em about dying populations,
> the more there is to resent.
>
> I think some here should look up generosity indexes that tell per person of
> population figures. You might be surprised-- or I might.
>
>
No, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Having lived in Europe I recall
generosity and the per capita figures are quite high <higher than the US
in some ways> yet then I also recall areas of total lack of individual
as well as organizational financial support (such as towards cancer
research... nothing like the American Cancer Society there)

Which dying population are "we" saying "****'em" about, again??

Giusi wrote:

> Give me one reason why you should throw away food grown using finite
> resources such as petroleum and thus put food out of the reach of any other
> human being who is willing to work for his food?
>
> India may have some rich people, but they do not have the richest on the
> planet. They have plenty of poor, too. The point is not India, but
> everybody who will shortly not be able to eat properly to support good
> health, in every country including yours, because of waste. It isn't just
> the USA, either. It was written that one-third of food in the UK was thrown
> away, too.
>
Hunger has always existed. It isn't something new.
Over population, drought and many other uncontrollable factors as well
as governmental corruption HAS done more to encourage famine and death
than my tossing out my browned lettuce leaves (which actually go into
the composter). You're an American, Guisi....what are you doing to fix
the problem? What are the Italian's doing?

"Goomba38" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Giusi wrote:
>
>> Of course they don't, and they do not out of hand hate Americans, either.
>> What they decry is arrogance, insensitivity and lack of understanding of
>> the basic laws of nature. The more people say **** 'em about dying
>> populations, the more there is to resent.
>>
>> I think some here should look up generosity indexes that tell per person
>> of population figures. You might be surprised-- or I might.
> No, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Having lived in Europe I recall
> generosity and the per capita figures are quite high <higher than the US
> in some ways> yet then I also recall areas of total lack of individual as
> well as organizational financial support (such as towards cancer
> research... nothing like the American Cancer Society there)
>
> Which dying population are "we" saying "****'em" about, again??

I think Indians were mentioned. But tomorrow it may be Africans, or Burmese
or whatever, because the issue is Americans doing something about waste and
greed because we know resources are finite. And let me point out again that
I am an American citizen.

I don't know about other countries, but in Italy various things are funded
all the time with a combination of TV appeals, phone vote charges given to
charity, telethons, sales of seasonal things in the piazze, church
collections, and besides that Italians pay high taxes to fund relief for
people inside and outside Italy. If you fall off a curb and break your
ankle, your emergency care will be free, paid for by Italians. Mobile
hospitals get airlifted in instantly when there are world disasters.

I have hundreds of opportunities to give in small ways all the time here.
When it is 50 centesimi you hardly notice it.

"Goomba38" > ha scritto nel messaggio
. ..
> Giusi wrote:
>
>> Give me one reason why you should throw away food grown using finite
>> resources such as petroleum and thus put food out of the reach of any
>> other human being who is willing to work for his food?
>>
>> India may have some rich people, but they do not have the richest on the
>> planet. They have plenty of poor, too. The point is not India, but
>> everybody who will shortly not be able to eat properly to support good
>> health, in every country including yours, because of waste. It isn't
>> just the USA, either. It was written that one-third of food in the UK
>> was thrown away, too.
> Hunger has always existed. It isn't something new.
> Over population, drought and many other uncontrollable factors as well as
> governmental corruption HAS done more to encourage famine and death than
> my tossing out my browned lettuce leaves (which actually go into the
> composter). You're an American, Guisi....what are you doing to fix the
> problem? What are the Italian's doing?

I think there is a lot less waste here. We also compost and many more
people grow some things to eat. You won't find a huge percentage of
Milanese or Romans spending their weekend hoeing an orto, but lots more than
in the US.

Some helps include: being able to buy just what you need, like 100 grams of
this or 6 slices of that; much less prepackaged stuff, although they can get
rid of a lot more and most plastic bags; a public that understands food a
good bit better and who think it matters; central recycling centers that
need to be funded to stay open much longer hours!

I was the only one with a recycling bin until last year, and now everyone
has one and I have 2. Their hens also get the salady things. We are
sharing seed purchase as possible, because almost no one needs as many seeds
as come in a packet. We share crops, too, since they are somewhat
staggered. When the farmer reaps wheat a liter jar of it means nothing to
him and a lot to me. Same for some of my more exotic things.

We've all said smartass things like send the cabbage to the Korean orphans,
but now we know that agriculture and petroleum are intertwined and water is
becoming in short supply. It's immoral to waste. Composting is not waste
as long as it is returned to workable earth.

Giusi > wrote:

> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> Steve Pope > wrote:
>>
>>> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
>>> international trade, economics and the environment of
>>> CUTS International, an independent research institute
>>> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
>>> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
>>> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>>
>> **** 'em. If they want to come over here and dig through our
>> garbage for the scraps, then let them. Otherwise their food
>> problems are their own problems.
>
> This is a stereotypical American statement and is the perfect expression of
> what is known as the Ugly American these days. It is also immoral even to
> non-religious.

What are the Italians doing to help India and North Africa? A hell
of a lot less than the U.S. is doing, that's for sure.

Now kindly **** off.

-sw

"Giusi" wrote

>>> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
>>> international trade, economics and the environment of
>>> CUTS International, an independent research institute
>>> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
>>> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
>>> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.

> Give me one reason why you should throw away food grown using finite
> resources such as petroleum and thus put food out of the reach of any
> other human being who is willing to work for his food?

It's more complex than that. Also, as others have stated to come up with
those figures they must be counting as 'waste' those portions of food which
most here would not consider 'food'. Green peelings off potatoes and such.
But back to what we do actually waste:

The complexity is we grow alot of food in the USA per person, but we have no
decent way to affordably get it over to others. We are in trillion dollar
debt zones and though not the only reason by far, one portion of it is huge
financial aide already going to various less weathy lands in the form of
money to buy food or directly as food.

There's a rather large pond on either side of us ;-) Food doesnt transport
itself for free over those. Our farm workers don't grow food for free nor
can the shippers afford to take it over for free. End result is any of us
(Europe too) tightening our belt, doesnt really make a difference to a
householder in India. Paying money to send cash or collecting enough to pay
to send food does help but the article doesnt look from that standpoint.

"Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Giusi > wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>> Steve Pope > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
>>>> international trade, economics and the environment of
>>>> CUTS International, an independent research institute
>>>> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
>>>> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
>>>> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>>>
>>> **** 'em. If they want to come over here and dig through our
>>> garbage for the scraps, then let them. Otherwise their food
>>> problems are their own problems.
>>
>> This is a stereotypical American statement and is the perfect expression
>> of
>> what is known as the Ugly American these days. It is also immoral even
>> to
>> non-religious.
>
> What are the Italians doing to help India and North Africa? A hell
> of a lot less than the U.S. is doing, that's for sure.
>
> Now kindly **** off.
>
> -sw

You haven't a clue what you are talking about and you won't get one either
as long as you keep your head in it's jingoistic position and don't pay
attention to anything but rah rah "we're the greatest" fake news.

On May 14, 9:14*pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> Ali wrote:
> > Bit of a crap post really.
>
> > What is meant by the US uses or throws away 3770 calories per person?
> > Does this include waste food and drink from retailers? *Is this uses,
> > or is thrown away? *Does this include trimming the fat off meat?
> > Etc...
>
> Similarly, I heard last night that people in a UK household throw away 1/3rd
> of their food a month. *Who conducts these studies?! *Who was going through
> trash bins to figure out how much was bought, used, consumed vs. discarded?
>
> Jill
Well, for one:
Timothy Jones (comming to a trash can near you)
http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/n...340-half-of-us

I heard him on a CBC radio interview a couple of months ago.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

Giusi > wrote:

> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> Giusi > wrote:
>>
>>> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> ...
>>>> Steve Pope > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
>>>>> international trade, economics and the environment of
>>>>> CUTS International, an independent research institute
>>>>> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
>>>>> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
>>>>> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>>>>
>>>> **** 'em. If they want to come over here and dig through our
>>>> garbage for the scraps, then let them. Otherwise their food
>>>> problems are their own problems.
>>>
>>> This is a stereotypical American statement and is the perfect expression
>>> of
>>> what is known as the Ugly American these days. It is also immoral even
>>> to
>>> non-religious.
>>
>> What are the Italians doing to help India and North Africa? A hell
>> of a lot less than the U.S. is doing, that's for sure.
>>
>> Now kindly **** off.
>
> You haven't a clue what you are talking about and you won't get one either
> as long as you keep your head in it's jingoistic position and don't pay
> attention to anything but rah rah "we're the greatest" fake news.

Ahh, more of the anti-American sentiment. The only patriotic
feelings I have are negative. And they mostly have to do with
allowing the outsourcing many of our jobs to India.

But I'll take your evasion of the question and your atypical
responses as a babbling surrender of the fact.

-sw

Janet Baraclough > wrote:

> The message >
> from Sqwertz > contains these words:
>
>> What are the Italians doing to help India and North Africa? A hell
>> of a lot less than the U.S. is doing, that's for sure.
>
> If you don't know what Italy is doing how did you manage to measure it?

Huh? Uh...

Oh, never mind. You're not worth it.

-sw

On Thu, 15 May 2008 08:55:50 -0400, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>Giusi wrote:
>
>> Of course they don't, and they do not out of hand hate Americans, either.
>> What they decry is arrogance, insensitivity and lack of understanding of the
>> basic laws of nature. The more people say **** 'em about dying populations,
>> the more there is to resent.
>>
>> I think some here should look up generosity indexes that tell per person of
>> population figures. You might be surprised-- or I might.
>>
>>
>No, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Having lived in Europe I recall
>generosity and the per capita figures are quite high <higher than the US
>in some ways> yet then I also recall areas of total lack of individual
>as well as organizational financial support (such as towards cancer
>research... nothing like the American Cancer Society there)
>
>Which dying population are "we" saying "****'em" about, again??

i think pretty much all of them.

your pal,
blake

And the amount of money they had to pay the US.

It was only recently (maybe the last few years) that the UK finished paying
off the dept to the US, with an enormous amount of interest. Still, not
important, just food for thought.


"Goomba38" > wrote in message
. ..

> One apparently reason is that younger European generations don't have
> first hand memories of the time American's stepped in during WW2 and
> helped them during or after the war.

Ali wrote:
> And the amount of money they had to pay the US.
>
> It was only recently (maybe the last few years) that the UK finished
> paying off the dept to the US, with an enormous amount of interest.
> Still, not important, just food for thought.
>
>
> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> One apparently reason is that younger European generations don't have
>> first hand memories of the time American's stepped in during WW2 and
>> helped them during or after the war.
>
The lend lease from the US was stopped in September, 1945. The loan that
was paid off in December, 2006 was for lend lease materials still in
transit or on hand at that time. Something over 1 billion pounds was
involved and the loan was for fifty years at 2% interest per annum. The
House of Lords and the Commons both thought it was a good deal so final
payment was delayed by six years whenever the pound rose much higher
than the US dollar. All of this information is found on the web easily
and it was not at an exorbitant interest rate.

IMHO most young Brits don't even know about the last loan, at least the
ones I worked with for several years didn't.

The UK was not the only recipient of US Lend Lease, Soviet Union,
Republic of China, and numerous others were also involved. Many of whom
never repaid a cent. The Brits were honest in their dealings and so was
the US. One man's opinion based on written history, take it or leave it.

On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:05:42 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>Giusi > wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>> Giusi > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>> ...
>>>>> Steve Pope > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
>>>>>> international trade, economics and the environment of
>>>>>> CUTS International, an independent research institute
>>>>>> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
>>>>>> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
>>>>>> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>>>>>
>>>>> **** 'em. If they want to come over here and dig through our
>>>>> garbage for the scraps, then let them. Otherwise their food
>>>>> problems are their own problems.
>>>>
>>>> This is a stereotypical American statement and is the perfect expression
>>>> of
>>>> what is known as the Ugly American these days. It is also immoral even
>>>> to
>>>> non-religious.
>>>
>>> What are the Italians doing to help India and North Africa? A hell
>>> of a lot less than the U.S. is doing, that's for sure.
>>>
>>> Now kindly **** off.
>>
>> You haven't a clue what you are talking about and you won't get one either
>> as long as you keep your head in it's jingoistic position and don't pay
>> attention to anything but rah rah "we're the greatest" fake news.
>
>Ahh, more of the anti-American sentiment. The only patriotic
>feelings I have are negative. And they mostly have to do with
>allowing the outsourcing many of our jobs to India.
>
>But I'll take your evasion of the question and your atypical
>responses as a babbling surrender of the fact.
>
>-sw

according to this chart, in 2002, by my count the u.s. was 15th out of
21 wealthy countries in per capita government and private foreign aid
spending:

<http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html>

true, we outspent italy. but the idea that the u.s. spends a
disproportionate amount of foreign aid, cherished as it is in some
quarters, is false.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy > wrote:

> On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:05:42 -0500, Sqwertz >
> wrote:
>
>>Giusi > wrote:
>>
>>> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> ...
>>>> Giusi > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Steve Pope > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pradeep S. Mehta, secretary general of the center for
>>>>>>> international trade, economics and the environment of
>>>>>>> CUTS International, an independent research institute
>>>>>>> based here, said that if Americans slimmed down to the
>>>>>>> weight of middle-class Indians, many hungry people in
>>>>>>> sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **** 'em. If they want to come over here and dig through our
>>>>>> garbage for the scraps, then let them. Otherwise their food
>>>>>> problems are their own problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a stereotypical American statement and is the perfect expression
>>>>> of
>>>>> what is known as the Ugly American these days. It is also immoral even
>>>>> to
>>>>> non-religious.
>>>>
>>>> What are the Italians doing to help India and North Africa? A hell
>>>> of a lot less than the U.S. is doing, that's for sure.
>>>>
>>>> Now kindly **** off.
>>>
>>> You haven't a clue what you are talking about and you won't get one either
>>> as long as you keep your head in it's jingoistic position and don't pay
>>> attention to anything but rah rah "we're the greatest" fake news.
>>
>>Ahh, more of the anti-American sentiment. The only patriotic
>>feelings I have are negative. And they mostly have to do with
>>allowing the outsourcing many of our jobs to India.
>>
>>But I'll take your evasion of the question and your atypical
>>responses as a babbling surrender of the fact.
>>
>>-sw
>
> according to this chart, in 2002, by my count the u.s. was 15th out of
> 21 wealthy countries in per capita government and private foreign aid
> spending:
>
> <http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html>
>
> true, we outspent italy. but the idea that the u.s. spends a
> disproportionate amount of foreign aid, cherished as it is in some
> quarters, is false.

That's nice. But I never mentioned foreign aid. At least not
formal the kind of foreign aid you're referring to. I'm talking
about the contributions and investments U.S. companies have made and
enabled in India. Add that on top of the foreign aid you mention.

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote:

>That's nice. But I never mentioned foreign aid. At least not
>formal the kind of foreign aid you're referring to. I'm talking
>about the contributions and investments U.S. companies have made and
>enabled in India.

So any sort of capitalist/imperialist expansion into the developing
world might be positioned as "aid". Nice.

Steve

Steve Pope > wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>>That's nice. But I never mentioned foreign aid. At least not
>>formal the kind of foreign aid you're referring to. I'm talking
>>about the contributions and investments U.S. companies have made and
>>enabled in India.
>
> So any sort of capitalist/imperialist expansion into the developing
> world might be positioned as "aid". Nice.

Again, I never said the word 'aid'. My point was that India would
be a lot worse off if it wasn't for the U.S. (some would say the
opposite is true, too).

As it is, India is experiencing a thriving new economy that was
enabled by U.S. companies expansion into their country.

You can re-word my viewpoint to suit your needs any way you want.
Go ahead.

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote:

>Steve Pope > wrote:

>> Sqwertz > wrote:

>>>That's nice. But I never mentioned foreign aid. At least not
>>>formal the kind of foreign aid you're referring to. I'm talking
>>>about the contributions and investments U.S. companies have made and
>>>enabled in India.

>> So any sort of capitalist/imperialist expansion into the developing
>> world might be positioned as "aid". Nice.

>Again, I never said the word 'aid'. My point was that India would
>be a lot worse off if it wasn't for the U.S. (some would say the
>opposite is true, too).

My error. You're right, you did not say "aid".

Steve