Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 26 Jul 2008 09:27:17a, Gloria P told us...
>
>> Giusi wrote:
>>
>>> I can tell you that Lidia's food comes closer to genuine Italian than
>>> almost anybody else's.
>>
>> That's exactly what I was thinking, Giusi.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Most TV and news cooks seem to be stuck in a village
>>> outside Naples or they never left Tuscany outside Siena. They should
>>> just admit that Italian-American is what they know, love and make.
>>>
>> I'm sure there are people who think the only thing served at Italian
>> tables every day is spaghetti and meatballs or lasagna. It has been
>> frustrating over the years to read Usenet and hear the arguments from
>> Americans about what is and is not "authentic" Italian, Mexican,
>> Spanish, Chinese, etc. as if a few trips to a country makes one an
>> expert on the entire country's cuisine.
>>
>> gloria p
>>
>>
>
> I never never never claim to be an expert on what constitutes authentic
> cuisine for any country. I just know what I like, and what I don't like.
>
Funniest thing I ever sat through was a conversation four couples from
Texas had, including Miz Anne and I, at the Star Japanese Restaurant in
Yanbu, Saudi Arabia. Topic was "where is the best Japanese food outside
of Japan." We were serious as all get out too. I held out for the Shogun
Restaurant in a hotel in Bangkok, Thailand. We really liked that
restaurant and ate their every time we were in Bangkok for about five
years. Note: Bangkok was our favorite site to visit outside the Middle
East with the exception of Texas and that's where our kids and grands lived.

Giusi > wrote:

> I can tell you that Lidia's food comes closer to genuine Italian than almost
> anybody else's. Most TV and news cooks seem to be stuck in a village
> outside Naples or they never left Tuscany outside Siena. They should just
> admit that Italian-American is what they know, love and make.

I have never seen any TV show by lidia, but I have a book of hers (La
Cucina di Lidia) and I have seen recipes from her other books. It
appears that she makes no attempt to appear as any kind of pan-Italian
food expert. Her cooking is very explicitly that of her own region,
Istria and Friuli-Venezia Giulia.

Victor

Victor Sack said...

> Giusi > wrote:
>
>> I can tell you that Lidia's food comes closer to genuine Italian than
>> almost anybody else's. Most TV and news cooks seem to be stuck in a
>> village outside Naples or they never left Tuscany outside Siena. They
>> should just admit that Italian-American is what they know, love and
>> make.
>
> I have never seen any TV show by lidia, but I have a book of hers (La
> Cucina di Lidia) and I have seen recipes from her other books. It
> appears that she makes no attempt to appear as any kind of pan-Italian
> food expert. Her cooking is very explicitly that of her own region,
> Istria and Friuli-Venezia Giulia.
>
> Victor


Lidia is only visible on PBS, not cable TV, thankfully.

Andy

"Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Giusi > wrote:
>
>> I can tell you that Lidia's food comes closer to genuine Italian than
>> almost
>> anybody else's. Most TV and news cooks seem to be stuck in a village
>> outside Naples or they never left Tuscany outside Siena. They should
>> just
>> admit that Italian-American is what they know, love and make.
>
> I have never seen any TV show by lidia, but I have a book of hers (La
> Cucina di Lidia) and I have seen recipes from her other books. It
> appears that she makes no attempt to appear as any kind of pan-Italian
> food expert. Her cooking is very explicitly that of her own region,
> Istria and Friuli-Venezia Giulia.
>
> Victor

I do not watch it, but it is on while my DD and I speak on Saturday's and
she tells me what is going on. On TV she cooks way outside her region. She
also does modern Italian cucina such as one sees in Italian food magazines
or Italian cooking shows.

I have never known anyone really expert at all regions. Pretenders, yes,
but if you want to know a particular region, city or even a small town, you
need to go to the source and not depend on generalists.

A fellow I work with just published an article on Berlusconi's favorite meal
and we discovered there were huge variations in the recipes even though it
originated and is mostly known in a very small area. There is even an
argument on whether it is correctly made with milk or cream, and the use of
nutmeg or not can cause fistfights... well maybe not really.

Giusi wrote:

>
> A fellow I work with just published an article on Berlusconi's favorite meal
> and we discovered there were huge variations in the recipes even though it
> originated and is mostly known in a very small area. There is even an
> argument on whether it is correctly made with milk or cream, and the use of
> nutmeg or not can cause fistfights... well maybe not really.
>
>

It seems that every time someone posts an ethnic recipe, ten people
reply, whining "That's not how MY grandmother used to make it!"

Recipes vary so much by region and even by household on the same street.
If someone's ancestor didn't like an ingredient you can bet it will be
left out of that family's recipe, probably forever.

Cooking is evolutionary, isn't it? Tastes change, ingredients change.
Marriage to someone from "somewhere else" causes changes to traditional
food prep. If it tastes good, it's bound to be repeated or modified.

gloria p

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:00:58 -0600, Gloria P >
wrote:

>Giusi wrote:
>
>>
>> A fellow I work with just published an article on Berlusconi's favorite meal
>> and we discovered there were huge variations in the recipes even though it
>> originated and is mostly known in a very small area. There is even an
>> argument on whether it is correctly made with milk or cream, and the use of
>> nutmeg or not can cause fistfights... well maybe not really.
>>
>>
>
>It seems that every time someone posts an ethnic recipe, ten people
>reply, whining "That's not how MY grandmother used to make it!"
>
>Recipes vary so much by region and even by household on the same street.
> If someone's ancestor didn't like an ingredient you can bet it will be
>left out of that family's recipe, probably forever.
>
>Cooking is evolutionary, isn't it? Tastes change, ingredients change.
>Marriage to someone from "somewhere else" causes changes to traditional
>food prep. If it tastes good, it's bound to be repeated or modified.
>
>gloria p

I have the feeling that "grandma" made dishes out of what was
available and not expensive at the time. Bad harvest of whatever
usually went in, something else was substituted. Family members
remember a particular version and "that" was how grandma always made
it.

wrote:
>It seems that every time someone posts an ethnic recipe, ten people
>reply, whining "That's not how MY grandmother used to make it!"
>Recipes vary so much by region and even by household on the same street.
> If someone's ancestor didn't like an ingredient you can bet it will be
>left out of that family's recipe, probably forever.
>Cooking is evolutionary, isn't it? Tastes change, ingredients change.
>Marriage to someone from "somewhere else" causes changes to traditional
>food prep. If it tastes good, it's bound to be repeated or modified.

I usually only criticize recipe authenticity when I know enough about
the cuisine and know which ingredients tend to be varied and which
remain the same. For instance, if I see cayenne pepper in an Indian
recipe, I know it's inauthentic because those peppers don't grow in
India and I've never seen or heard of them being imported.

Orlando

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> wrote:
>> It seems that every time someone posts an ethnic recipe, ten people
>> reply, whining "That's not how MY grandmother used to make it!"
>> Recipes vary so much by region and even by household on the same street.
>> If someone's ancestor didn't like an ingredient you can bet it will be
>> left out of that family's recipe, probably forever.
>> Cooking is evolutionary, isn't it? Tastes change, ingredients change.
>> Marriage to someone from "somewhere else" causes changes to traditional
>> food prep. If it tastes good, it's bound to be repeated or modified.
>
> I usually only criticize recipe authenticity when I know enough about
> the cuisine and know which ingredients tend to be varied and which
> remain the same. For instance, if I see cayenne pepper in an Indian
> recipe, I know it's inauthentic because those peppers don't grow in
> India and I've never seen or heard of them being imported.
>
> Orlando

What types of peppers DO they use there, Orlando? I THINK the
ones I see in the Indian stores don't sport a name--in English
anyway.

--
Jean B.

wrote:
>What types of peppers DO they use there, Orlando? I THINK the
>ones I see in the Indian stores don't sport a name--in English
>anyway.

They mostly use red or green chillies, given various names and tasting
slightly different. They also use capsicums for stuffing and in certain
vegetables. These would be similar to poblanos or bell peppers.

Orlando

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> wrote:
>> What types of peppers DO they use there, Orlando? I THINK the
>> ones I see in the Indian stores don't sport a name--in English
>> anyway.
>
> They mostly use red or green chillies, given various names and tasting
> slightly different. They also use capsicums for stuffing and in certain
> vegetables. These would be similar to poblanos or bell peppers.
>
> Orlando

Interestingly, when I went to get my kaffir lime tree yesterday,
we discussed some other food items, including peppers. He is
growing lots of unnamed ultrahot Thai peppers. He said they
should be bruised and cooked that way--and not eaten. I have
heard that before in the context of Sichuan cooking (IIRC). We
opined about Mexican chiles being used in Asian cuisine.... The
heat is different.

Now, given that chiles come from the new world, how did the come
to have different characteristics? Or did some chiles become
dominant for Asian cuisines, while others became the norm for
Latin American cuisines?

--
Jean B.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:27:28 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> What types of peppers DO they use there, Orlando? I THINK the
>>> ones I see in the Indian stores don't sport a name--in English
>>> anyway.
>>
>> They mostly use red or green chillies, given various names and tasting
>> slightly different. They also use capsicums for stuffing and in certain
>> vegetables. These would be similar to poblanos or bell peppers.
>>
>> Orlando
>
>Interestingly, when I went to get my kaffir lime tree yesterday,
>we discussed some other food items, including peppers. He is
>growing lots of unnamed ultrahot Thai peppers. He said they
>should be bruised and cooked that way--and not eaten. I have
>heard that before in the context of Sichuan cooking (IIRC). We
>opined about Mexican chiles being used in Asian cuisine.... The
>heat is different.
>
>Now, given that chiles come from the new world, how did the come
>to have different characteristics? Or did some chiles become
>dominant for Asian cuisines, while others became the norm for
>Latin American cuisines?

if you want the straight dope, consult 'Peppers: A Story of Hot
Pursuits,' by amal naj:

<http://www.amazon.com/Peppers-Story-Pursuits-Amal-Naj/dp/0679744274/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217447314&sr=1-1>

but, long story short, they are very carefully bred, not just for
insect and drought resistance and the like, but for the market they're
aimed at - less hot for anglos, hotter for mexicans, suicidal for
habanero-munching mayans. jalapeños in particular have been much
tinkered-with for market acceptability.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:
> if you want the straight dope, consult 'Peppers: A Story of Hot
> Pursuits,' by amal naj:
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Peppers-Story-Pursuits-Amal-Naj/dp/0679744274/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217447314&sr=1-1>
>
> but, long story short, they are very carefully bred, not just for
> insect and drought resistance and the like, but for the market they're
> aimed at - less hot for anglos, hotter for mexicans, suicidal for
> habanero-munching mayans. jalapeños in particular have been much
> tinkered-with for market acceptability.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>
>
Thanks for the tip re the book. It's not just the level of
heat--it's where that heat is perceived too.

I'm going to order that book before I forget....

--
Jean B.

On 2008-07-30, blake murphy > wrote:

> but, long story short, they are very carefully bred, not just for
> insect and drought resistance and the like....

Same with Mex corn. Unfortunately, monsanto is screwing it all up.

notbob said...

> On 2008-07-30, blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> but, long story short, they are very carefully bred, not just for
>> insect and drought resistance and the like....
>
> Same with Mex corn. Unfortunately, monsanto is screwing it all up.


CRAP! Monsanto again?!?

The BUMS!!!

Andy

On May 31, 5:24*pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
> The Food Network has some good personalities and programs (I love Giada's
> cleavage), but they are out of touch with reality. Sandra Lee is just an
> idiot.
>
> Real people just don't make that sort of stuff on a daily basis.
>
> Iron Chef is a fantasy that none of us will actually make-but love to look
> at.
>
> Agree or disagree?
>
> Who's your favorite and why?


I don't have a favorite. I learn a lot from people like Alton Brown
who can tell you why certain things are done or not done, but there
aren't really that many of those folks on there anymore. The only
actual chefs with regular Food Network shows in production right now
are Bobby Flay and Anne Burrelle. They should get another chef or two
into the lineup, otherwise it's just people like me cooking stuff.
Fun, but a little superficial. Cat Cora could probably use a regular
gig. Or maybe they can get Mario Batali to come back. IMHO, they
should always have at least four professional chefs in the lineup.

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:16:11 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> wrote:

wrote:
>>It seems that every time someone posts an ethnic recipe, ten people
>>reply, whining "That's not how MY grandmother used to make it!"
>>Recipes vary so much by region and even by household on the same street.
>> If someone's ancestor didn't like an ingredient you can bet it will be
>>left out of that family's recipe, probably forever.
>>Cooking is evolutionary, isn't it? Tastes change, ingredients change.
>>Marriage to someone from "somewhere else" causes changes to traditional
>>food prep. If it tastes good, it's bound to be repeated or modified.
>
>I usually only criticize recipe authenticity when I know enough about
>the cuisine and know which ingredients tend to be varied and which
>remain the same. For instance, if I see cayenne pepper in an Indian
>recipe, I know it's inauthentic because those peppers don't grow in
>India and I've never seen or heard of them being imported.

Thank you for playing, as a consolation prize ....

The Cayenne pepper was probably the first chili pepper to be introduced
to India when the Portugese brought it around 1500.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:14:37 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>> if you want the straight dope, consult 'Peppers: A Story of Hot
>> Pursuits,' by amal naj:
>>
>> <http://www.amazon.com/Peppers-Story-Pursuits-Amal-Naj/dp/0679744274/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217447314&sr=1-1>
>>
>> but, long story short, they are very carefully bred, not just for
>> insect and drought resistance and the like, but for the market they're
>> aimed at - less hot for anglos, hotter for mexicans, suicidal for
>> habanero-munching mayans. jalapeños in particular have been much
>> tinkered-with for market acceptability.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>>
>>
>Thanks for the tip re the book. It's not just the level of
>heat--it's where that heat is perceived too.
>
>I'm going to order that book before I forget....

it's fun. i think modom first mentioned it here.

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:59:14 GMT:


> if you want the straight dope, consult 'Peppers: A Story of
> Hot Pursuits,' by amal naj:

> <http://www.amazon.com/Peppers-Story-...al-Naj/dp/0679
> 744274/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217447314&sr=1-1>

> but, long story short, they are very carefully bred, not just
> for insect and drought resistance and the like, but for the
> market they're aimed at - less hot for anglos, hotter for
> mexicans, suicidal for habanero-munching mayans. jalapeños in
> particular have been much tinkered-with for market
> acceptability.

Interesting, I must take a look at it. You can't really complain about
people selecting different sorts of peppers for hotness and flavor. I
expect jalapenos to be fairly mild and cubaneros even milder but I
wouldn't rub my eyes after cutting jalapenos or even chew on a plain
jalapeno as some people do. I suppose there must have been several sorts
of pepper when the Spanish came upon them. It's hard to imagine someone
breeding a jalapeno into a Scotch Bonnet.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:40:47 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> blake wrote on Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:59:14 GMT:
>
>
>> if you want the straight dope, consult 'Peppers: A Story of
>> Hot Pursuits,' by amal naj:
>
>> <http://www.amazon.com/Peppers-Story-...al-Naj/dp/0679
>> 744274/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217447314&sr=1-1>
>
>> but, long story short, they are very carefully bred, not just
>> for insect and drought resistance and the like, but for the
>> market they're aimed at - less hot for anglos, hotter for
>> mexicans, suicidal for habanero-munching mayans. jalapeños in
>> particular have been much tinkered-with for market
>> acceptability.
>
>Interesting, I must take a look at it. You can't really complain about
>people selecting different sorts of peppers for hotness and flavor. I
>expect jalapenos to be fairly mild and cubaneros even milder but I
>wouldn't rub my eyes after cutting jalapenos or even chew on a plain
>jalapeno as some people do. I suppose there must have been several sorts
>of pepper when the Spanish came upon them. It's hard to imagine someone
>breeding a jalapeno into a Scotch Bonnet.

I don't think that happened. Scotch bonnets and jalapeños are
cultivars from different species. Habaneros and Scotch bonnets belong
to the species Capsicum chinense. Jalapeños are a variety of Capsicum
annuum.

--
modom

I have long maintained that Texans are not easy to love: we are, like anchovies, an acquired taste.
-- Molly Ivins
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