"Sheldon" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 14, 3:52?pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Nancy Young > wrote:
> >Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
> >>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. ?It was
> >>> mushy. ?20 minutes? ?You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated
> >>> the flank steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
> >> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
> >Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
> >acid by definition.
>
> Yes, without acid it might be a brine but not a marinade.
>
> Steve

Nonsense. Idiot.

I love the way Sheldon signs his comments these days, this is the second
time. Must be a sign it is true.
Elly

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:06:44 -0600, Gloria P >
wrote:

wrote:
>> I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm looking for some new
>> marinades. Anyone have a favorite? Also, how long to marinate? I know I can
>> Google this but I'd like to hear what regular folks like to do.Thanks.
>>
>
>For many years we have had flank marinated with:
>(amounts are approximate)
>
>3/4 cup soy sauce
>1/4 cup vermouth or dry sherry
>finely chopped onion
>minced or grated garlic
>a few scrapes of ginger
>1 or 2 tsp. sugar
>fresh ground black pepper
>
>Mix well and pour over flank in a zip-lock bag. Refrigerate.
>
>I have marinated anywhere from an hour to overnight (20 hrs?)
>Cooks Illustrated says marinating longer than 20 minutes makes
>the meat "mushy" but we've never experienced that.
>
>gloria p

while we're on the subject, the washington *post* had an article in
their food section on june 11:

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/10/AR2008061000614.html>

The Myth About Marinades
A Flavor Bath, In a Flash

Putting together my favorite marinade takes some time, not least
because I allow it to.

I always start with red wine: one glass for me, one for the marinade.
Then I set the two apart by adding garlic and chopped parsley to the
wine I won't be drinking. When I pick some thyme from the veranda and
rub the leaves between my hands, my kitchen fills with the smell of
the Greek islands and never-ending summer. I throw the leaves in,
along with grinds of black pepper, a crushed bay leaf and sometimes a
drop or two of Tabasco, for temperament.

I taste and adjust, adding a little sugar, some soy sauce. When I am
satisfied that the marinade is just right, I pour it over a couple of
steaks.

While the meat is marinating, I indulge in a ritual to pass the time:
I count to four. One, two, three, four. That's it. And finally I can
dedicate myself to the masculine cooking technique that involves the
burning of eyebrows, slight smoke poisoning and the charring of meat
over red-hot coals.

Marinating meat is one of those mysterious fields in the world of
cooking in which there are plenty of opinions and few facts; an area
that many people -- mostly men -- claim to master but few can explain.


....which seems kinda fishy to me. he also says he will return the
meat to the marinade during the process of cooking. he claims the
food scientist harold mcgee backs him up on this in that the marinade
doesn't greatly penetrate the meat no matter how long you marinate.

it would be very interesting to me to see what others think of the
article. it seems counterintuitive, to say the least.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >
> >> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
> >> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
> >> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated
> >> the flank steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>
> > I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>
> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
> acid by definition.
>
> nancy

I think you're probably right -- I'm thinking about the amount.
Have you ever had a chicken breast get mushy before it's cooked. Blech.
It's gross. IMO.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Huffy and Bubbles Do France: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

blake wrote on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:59:29 GMT:

>> wrote:
>>> I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm
>>> looking for some new marinades. Anyone have a favorite?
>>> Also, how long to marinate? I know I can Google this but I'd
>>> like to hear what regular folks like to do.Thanks.
>>>
>> For many years we have had flank marinated with:
>> (amounts are approximate)
>>
>> 3/4 cup soy sauce
>> 1/4 cup vermouth or dry sherry
>> finely chopped onion
>> minced or grated garlic
>> a few scrapes of ginger
>> 1 or 2 tsp. sugar
>> fresh ground black pepper
>>
>> Mix well and pour over flank in a zip-lock bag. Refrigerate.
>>
>> I have marinated anywhere from an hour to overnight (20 hrs?)
>> Cooks Illustrated says marinating longer than 20 minutes
>> makes the meat "mushy" but we've never experienced that.
>>
>> gloria p

> while we're on the subject, the washington *post* had an
> article in their food section on june 11:

> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...ticle/2008/06/
> 10/AR2008061000614.html>

> The Myth About Marinades
> A Flavor Bath, In a Flash

> Putting together my favorite marinade takes some time, not
> least because I allow it to.

> I always start with red wine: one glass for me, one for the
> marinade. Then I set the two apart by adding garlic and
> chopped parsley to the wine I won't be drinking. When I pick
> some thyme from the veranda and rub the leaves between my
> hands, my kitchen fills with the smell of the Greek islands
> and never-ending summer. I throw the leaves in, along with
> grinds of black pepper, a crushed bay leaf and sometimes a
> drop or two of Tabasco, for temperament.

> I taste and adjust, adding a little sugar, some soy sauce.
> When I am satisfied that the marinade is just right, I pour it
> over a couple of steaks.

> While the meat is marinating, I indulge in a ritual to pass
> the time: I count to four. One, two, three, four. That's it. And
> finally I can dedicate myself to the masculine cooking
> technique that involves the burning of eyebrows, slight smoke
> poisoning and the charring of meat over red-hot coals.

> Marinating meat is one of those mysterious fields in the world
> of cooking in which there are plenty of opinions and few
> facts; an area that many people -- mostly men -- claim to
> master but few can explain.

> ...which seems kinda fishy to me. he also says he will return
> the meat to the marinade during the process of cooking. he
> claims the food scientist harold mcgee backs him up on this in
> that the marinade doesn't greatly penetrate the meat no matter
> how long you marinate.

> it would be very interesting to me to see what others think of
> the article. it seems counterintuitive, to say the least.

It's very untraditional but quite often there is very little taste from
the marinade unless a substantial amount is left on the surface of the
food when cooking. I am pretty well convinced by the Washington Post
article. I am going to cook some salmon where the recipe calls for
marinading for 12 to 36 hours and, AFAICS, an hour is enough.

It would not surprise me at all if traditional wisdom is wrong and has
never been tested. Just think about how long people were treated,
according to traditional medical wisdom, by the use of horrible bland
diets for stomach ulcers that were due to bacteria.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
>>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated
>>>> the flank steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>>
>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>>
>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
>> acid by definition.

> I think you're probably right -- I'm thinking about the amount.
> Have you ever had a chicken breast get mushy before it's cooked.
> Blech. It's gross. IMO.

I can just picture it. Yuck. I know there is a 'too long' to marinating,
and it's different depending on the cut of meat. I think it would
take a shorter time for chicken to go ... digested looking, for lack
of a better term. Ugh.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in news:-
:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>
>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated
>>> the flank steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>
>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>
> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
> acid by definition.
>
> nancy
>

It is a enzime in the pineapple juice that tenderizes meat...

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

Sheldon wrote:
> "Nancy Young" wrote:
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
>>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated
>>>> the flank steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
>> acid by definition.
>
> Not all marinades are designed to tenderize, some only add flavor.
> With pineapple it's not so much acid, fresh pineapple contains a meat
> tenderizing enzyme (bromelain) it works fairly rapidly, don't let meat
> rest in it more than a couple hours or it will become digested, you'll
> have steak with a texture somewhere between mashed potatoes and
> liverwurst. Papaya contains a similar enzyme.
>
> meat tenderizers
> Hanging and aging is how many meat processors tenderize meat, but the
> home cook can easily do so by simple mechanical or chemical methods.
> Tenderizing meat mechanically is accomplished by breaking down the
> meat's tough fibers through pounding. Meat pounders (also called meat
> bats, mallets and tenderizers ) come in metal or wood and in a
> plethora of sizes and shapes. They can be large or small, have
> horizontal or vertical handles and be round-, square- or mallet-
> shaped. Some have smooth surfaces while others are ridged. Tenderizing
> meat chemically refers to softening the meat fibers by long, slow
> cooking, by MARINATING it in an acid-based MARINADE, or by using a
> commercial meat tenderizer. Most forms of the latter are a white
> powder, composed mostly of a papaya extract called papain, an enzyme
> that breaks down tough meat fibers. The use of this enzyme is nothing
> new — South American cooks have been using papaya juice to tenderize
> meat for ages. Powdered meat tenderizer is available at most
> supermarkets. Most brands contain salt, sugar (in the form of
> DEXTROSE) and the anticaking agent calcium stearate.
>
> © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
> LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.

Anyone can "Google", Shelly.

Sheldon wrote:
> On Jun 14, 3:52�pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>> Nancy Young > wrote:
>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. �It was
>>>>> mushy. �20 minutes? �You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated
>>>>> the flank steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
>>> acid by definition.
>> Yes, without acid it might be a brine but not a marinade.
>>
>> Steve
>
> Nonsense. Idiot.

Really, Shelly?

On Sat 14 Jun 2008 05:16:38p, hahabogus told us...

> "Nancy Young" > wrote in news:-
> :
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
>>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated the flank
>>>> steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>>
>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>>
>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
>> acid by definition.
>>
>> nancy
>>
>
> It is a enzime in the pineapple juice that tenderizes meat...
>

I thought that was only true or raw pineaple.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 06(VI)/14(XIV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Flag Day
-------------------------------------------
Real programs don't eat cache.
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
6.120:

> On Sat 14 Jun 2008 05:16:38p, hahabogus told us...
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in news:-
>> :
>>
>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
>>>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated the flank
>>>>> steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>>>
>>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
>>> acid by definition.
>>>
>>> nancy
>>>
>>
>> It is a enzime in the pineapple juice that tenderizes meat...
>>
>
> I thought that was only true or raw pineaple.
>

No cooked pineapple can be used in gelatine because ccoking kills that
enzmime. But the tenderizing enzime lives on.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

On Jun 14, 7:34*pm, DK > wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > "Nancy Young" wrote:
> >> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
> >>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. *It was
> >>>> mushy. *20 minutes? *You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated
> >>>> the flank steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
> >>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
> >> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
> >> acid by definition.
>
> > Not all marinades are designed to tenderize, some only add flavor.
> > With pineapple it's not so much acid, fresh pineapple contains a meat
> > tenderizing enzyme (bromelain) it works fairly rapidly, don't let meat
> > rest in it more than a couple hours or it will become digested, you'll
> > have steak with a texture somewhere between mashed potatoes and
> > liverwurst. *Papaya contains a similar enzyme.
>
> > meat tenderizers
> > Hanging and aging is how many meat processors tenderize meat, but the
> > home cook can easily do so by simple mechanical or chemical methods.
> > Tenderizing meat mechanically is accomplished by breaking down the
> > meat's tough fibers through pounding. Meat pounders *(also called meat
> > bats, mallets *and tenderizers ) come in metal or wood and in a
> > plethora of sizes and shapes. They can be large or small, have
> > horizontal or vertical handles and be round-, square- or mallet-
> > shaped. Some have smooth surfaces while others are ridged. Tenderizing
> > meat chemically refers to softening the meat fibers by long, slow
> > cooking, by MARINATING it in an acid-based MARINADE, or by using a
> > commercial meat tenderizer. Most forms of the latter are a white
> > powder, composed mostly of a papaya extract called papain, an enzyme
> > that breaks down tough meat fibers. The use of this enzyme is nothing
> > new — South American cooks have been using papaya juice to tenderize
> > meat for ages. Powdered meat tenderizer is available at most
> > supermarkets. Most brands contain salt, sugar (in the form of
> > DEXTROSE) and the anticaking agent calcium stearate.
>
> > © Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
> > LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.
>
> Anyone can "Google", Shelly

Oh, so it's "Shelly," eh? Are you two an item these days?

--Bryan

On Sat 14 Jun 2008 08:51:38p, hahabogus told us...

> Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
> 6.120:
>
>> On Sat 14 Jun 2008 05:16:38p, hahabogus told us...
>>
>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in news:-
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
>>>>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated the flank
>>>>>> steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>>>>
>>>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
>>>> acid by definition.
>>>>
>>>> nancy
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is a enzime in the pineapple juice that tenderizes meat...
>>>
>>
>> I thought that was only true or raw pineaple.
>>
>
> No cooked pineapple can be used in gelatine because ccoking kills that
> enzmime. But the tenderizing enzime lives on.
>

I knew that about the gelatin, but didn't realize that the cooked pineapple
would still tenderize. Thanks, Alan.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 06(VI)/14(XIV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Flag Day
-------------------------------------------
I admit it's offbeat, but lets not get
hysterical.
-------------------------------------------

On Jun 14, 10:51*pm, hahabogus > wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote . 186.120:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat 14 Jun 2008 05:16:38p, hahabogus told us...
>
> >> "Nancy Young" > wrote in news:-
> >> :
>
> >>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> >>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
> >>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
> >>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. *It was
> >>>>> mushy. *20 minutes? *You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated the flank
> >>>>> steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>
> >>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>
> >>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
> >>> acid by definition.
>
> >>> nancy
>
> >> It is a enzime in the pineapple juice that tenderizes meat...
>
> > I thought that was only true or raw pineaple.
>
> No cooked pineapple can be used in gelatine because
> ccoking kills that enzmime. But the tenderizing enzime lives on.

Not according to this:

"This assures us that the fresh juice still had the Bromelain intact,
but the cooked juice had the Bromelain denatured due to the heating
and destroying of it."
source-- http://www.biology.clc.uc.edu/studen...6/amy--bec.htm

Canned pineapple is cooked. That's why you can put it in Jello.
>
> --
>
> The house of the burning beet-Alan

--Bryan

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> yep, that will be very good. there are many variations, but this hits
>> the high spots. (i wish i had a heat source hot enough to char it on
>> the outside and still have a rare interior. damn apartment dwelling!)
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Your stove doesn't have a broiler? Complain to the manager!

it does, but i'll confess i haven't used it. it's electric, and i'm
used to gas.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:15:39 -0700, sf <.> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>> yep, that will be very good. there are many variations, but this hits
>>> the high spots. (i wish i had a heat source hot enough to char it on
>>> the outside and still have a rare interior. damn apartment dwelling!)
>
>Don't you have a fire escape? Set a hibachi or small Weber out there.

i have a balcony, but charcoal grills are strictly *verboten*.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
> wrote:


>Oh, so it's "Shelly," eh? Are you two an item these days?

Do you need to "requote" hundreds of lines of drivel just to add your
one line comment?

On Jun 15, 9:36*am, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:15:39 -0700, sf <.> wrote:
> >On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >>In article >,
> >> blake murphy > wrote:
>
> >>> yep, that will be very good. *there are many variations, but this hits
> >>> the high spots. *(i wish i had a heat source hot enough to char it on
> >>> the outside and still have a rare interior. *damn apartment dwelling!)
>
> >Don't you have a fire escape? *Set a hibachi or small Weber out there.
>
> i have a balcony, but charcoal grills are strictly *verboten*.

I'd move. I'm serious. I'd never want to live where I couldn't cook
with wood/charcoal. Not having a gas range would also be a
dealbreaker.
>
> your pal,
> blake

--Bryan

blake murphy wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:

>> Your stove doesn't have a broiler? Complain to the manager!
>
> it does, but i'll confess i haven't used it. it's electric, and i'm
> used to gas.

You should try it. The one thing I could never stand was the
broiler in gas ranges, in that bottom drawer. Now they are
in the oven like electric ranges and so much easier to use.
You should try your electric broiler.

nancy

On Jun 15, 9:35*am, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
>
> > wrote:
> >In article >,
> > blake murphy > wrote:
>
> >> yep, that will be very good. *there are many variations, but this hits
> >> the high spots. *(i wish i had a heat source hot enough to char it on
> >> the outside and still have a rare interior. *damn apartment dwelling!)
>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
>
> >Your stove doesn't have a broiler? *Complain to the manager!
>
> it does, but i'll confess i haven't used it. *it's electric, and i'm
> used to gas.

Electric broilers do work. No substitute for charcoal/wood, but they
are the one aspect of electric ovens that I don't particularly
dislike. I do almost always use some kind of spacer to get the meat
closer to the heating element though.
>
> your pal,
> blake

--Bryan

On Jun 13, 9:03*am, The Cook > wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:36:53 -0400, wrote:
> >I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm looking for some new
> >marinades. Anyone have a favorite? Also, how long to marinate? I know I can
> >Google this but I'd like to hear what regular folks like to do.Thanks.
>
> My favorite is London Broil. *Here is the recipe from the 1963 McCalls
> Cook Book.
>
> 2-lb flank steak
> 1 tablespoon salad oil
> 1 teaspoon lemon juice
> 1 teaspoon salt
> 1/8 teaspoon pepper
> 1 clove garlic, crushed
> 2 teaspoons chopped parsley
>
> With a sharp knife, trim excess fat from steak. *Wipe steak with damp
> paper towels.
>
> Combine oil with lemon juice, salt, pepper, garlic and parsley. *Use
> half of mixture to brush to of steak.
>
> Place steak on lightly greased rack in broiler pan; broil 4 inches
> from *heat, 5 minutes. *Turn, brush with rest of oil mixture; broil 3
> to *5 minutes longer.
>
> To serve: *Slice very thinly on diagonal, across the grain.
>
> ----------
> I usually marinate the steak for a few minutes instead of just
> brushing with oil mixture.

Yum.
>
> Don't over cook or it gets tough.
>
> --
> Susan N.

--Bryan

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:00:02 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Sat 14 Jun 2008 05:16:38p, hahabogus told us...
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in news:-
>> :
>>
>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
>>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
>>>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated the flank
>>>>> steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
>>>
>>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
>>> acid by definition.
>>>
>>> nancy
>>>
>>
>> It is a enzime in the pineapple juice that tenderizes meat...
>>
>
>I thought that was only true or raw pineaple.

i've just been googling a bit, and most do say that pineapple juice
must be fresh. i still some of the bromelain creeps in even if
pasteurized, though.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:12:27 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> blake wrote on Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:59:29 GMT:
>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm
>>>> looking for some new marinades. Anyone have a favorite?
>>>> Also, how long to marinate? I know I can Google this but I'd
>>>> like to hear what regular folks like to do.Thanks.
>>>>
>>> For many years we have had flank marinated with:
>>> (amounts are approximate)
>>>
>>> 3/4 cup soy sauce
>>> 1/4 cup vermouth or dry sherry
>>> finely chopped onion
>>> minced or grated garlic
>>> a few scrapes of ginger
>>> 1 or 2 tsp. sugar
>>> fresh ground black pepper
>>>
>>> Mix well and pour over flank in a zip-lock bag. Refrigerate.
>>>
>>> I have marinated anywhere from an hour to overnight (20 hrs?)
>>> Cooks Illustrated says marinating longer than 20 minutes
>>> makes the meat "mushy" but we've never experienced that.
>>>
>>> gloria p
>
>> while we're on the subject, the washington *post* had an
>> article in their food section on june 11:
>
>> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...ticle/2008/06/
>> 10/AR2008061000614.html>
>
>> The Myth About Marinades
>> A Flavor Bath, In a Flash
>
>> Putting together my favorite marinade takes some time, not
>> least because I allow it to.
>
>> I always start with red wine: one glass for me, one for the
>> marinade. Then I set the two apart by adding garlic and
>> chopped parsley to the wine I won't be drinking. When I pick
>> some thyme from the veranda and rub the leaves between my
>> hands, my kitchen fills with the smell of the Greek islands
>> and never-ending summer. I throw the leaves in, along with
>> grinds of black pepper, a crushed bay leaf and sometimes a
>> drop or two of Tabasco, for temperament.
>
>> I taste and adjust, adding a little sugar, some soy sauce.
>> When I am satisfied that the marinade is just right, I pour it
>> over a couple of steaks.
>
>> While the meat is marinating, I indulge in a ritual to pass
>> the time: I count to four. One, two, three, four. That's it. And
>> finally I can dedicate myself to the masculine cooking
>> technique that involves the burning of eyebrows, slight smoke
>> poisoning and the charring of meat over red-hot coals.
>
>> Marinating meat is one of those mysterious fields in the world
>> of cooking in which there are plenty of opinions and few
>> facts; an area that many people -- mostly men -- claim to
>> master but few can explain.
>
>> ...which seems kinda fishy to me. he also says he will return
>> the meat to the marinade during the process of cooking. he
>> claims the food scientist harold mcgee backs him up on this in
>> that the marinade doesn't greatly penetrate the meat no matter
>> how long you marinate.
>
>> it would be very interesting to me to see what others think of
>> the article. it seems counterintuitive, to say the least.
>
>It's very untraditional but quite often there is very little taste from
>the marinade unless a substantial amount is left on the surface of the
>food when cooking. I am pretty well convinced by the Washington Post
>article. I am going to cook some salmon where the recipe calls for
>marinading for 12 to 36 hours and, AFAICS, an hour is enough.
>
>It would not surprise me at all if traditional wisdom is wrong and has
>never been tested. Just think about how long people were treated,
>according to traditional medical wisdom, by the use of horrible bland
>diets for stomach ulcers that were due to bacteria.

come to think of it, i've seen in more than one place the korean
practice of cooking short ribs, eating some, and putting it back on
the grill to re-crisp. can't remember if it's re-dunked in the
marinade, though.

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:16:03 GMT:

> come to think of it, i've seen in more than one place the
> korean practice of cooking short ribs, eating some, and
> putting it back on the grill to re-crisp. can't remember if
> it's re-dunked in the marinade, though.

I'm sure that re-dunking would add to the flavor. The only problem might
be that the original marinade could have bacteria in it that might not
be killed.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jun 13, 9:06*am, Gloria P > wrote:
> wrote:
> > I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm looking for some new
> > marinades. Anyone have a favorite? Also, how long to marinate? I know I can
> > Google this but I'd like to hear what regular folks like to do.Thanks.
>
> For many years we have had flank marinated with:
> (amounts are approximate)
>
> 3/4 cup soy sauce
> 1/4 cup vermouth or dry sherry
> finely chopped onion
> minced or grated garlic
> a few scrapes of ginger
> 1 or 2 tsp. sugar
> fresh ground black pepper
>
> Mix well and pour over flank in a zip-lock bag. Refrigerate.
>
> I have marinated anywhere from an hour to overnight (20 hrs?)
> Cooks Illustrated says marinating longer than 20 minutes makes
> the meat "mushy" but we've never experienced that.
>
> gloria p

I've had the "mushy" problem before; too much freshly grated ginger in
the long-time marinade had an adverse affect on beef for me. I've
read since that there's an enzyme in it, similar to that which is in
papaya, and which is one of the active ingredients in commercial meat
tenderizer.

said...

> On Jun 13, 9:06*am, Gloria P > wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm looking for
s
> ome new
>> > marinades. Anyone have a favorite? Also, how long to marinate? I know
I
> can
>> > Google this but I'd like to hear what regular folks like to do.Thanks.
>>
>> For many years we have had flank marinated with:
>> (amounts are approximate)
>>
>> 3/4 cup soy sauce
>> 1/4 cup vermouth or dry sherry
>> finely chopped onion
>> minced or grated garlic
>> a few scrapes of ginger
>> 1 or 2 tsp. sugar
>> fresh ground black pepper
>>
>> Mix well and pour over flank in a zip-lock bag. Refrigerate.
>>
>> I have marinated anywhere from an hour to overnight (20 hrs?)
>> Cooks Illustrated says marinating longer than 20 minutes makes
>> the meat "mushy" but we've never experienced that.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> I've had the "mushy" problem before; too much freshly grated ginger in
> the long-time marinade had an adverse affect on beef for me. I've
> read since that there's an enzyme in it, similar to that which is in
> papaya, and which is one of the active ingredients in commercial meat
> tenderizer.


If you're going to marinate a flank steak you have to Jaccard it. To let
the flavors of the marinade sink in.

If you want a flank steak on the grill in short order, Jaccard, and salt
and pepper and spice rub other stuff.

And cook it only rare. Let it rest, hone the heck out of a good carving
knife, and carve it as paper thin against the grain as you can, get the
baked potatoes (w/sour cream and chives) and pounds of caramelized onions
ready to go.

Figure 1 lb. flank steak per person!

I'm a pleasure to watch eat, so I've been told.

Best,

Andy's Evil Twin

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:13:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>I've had the "mushy" problem before; too much freshly grated ginger in
>the long-time marinade had an adverse affect on beef for me. I've
>read since that there's an enzyme in it, similar to that which is in
>papaya, and which is one of the active ingredients in commercial meat
>tenderizer.

ginger tenderizes meat? I must not use enough.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

blake wrote on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:16:03 GMT:

>> It's very untraditional but quite often there is very little
>> taste from the marinade unless a substantial amount is left
>> on the surface of the food when cooking. I am pretty well
>> convinced by the Washington Post article. I am going to cook
>> some salmon where the recipe calls for marinading for 12 to
>> 36 hours and, AFAICS, an hour is enough.
>>
>> It would not surprise me at all if traditional wisdom is
>> wrong and has never been tested. Just think about how long
>> people were treated, according to traditional medical wisdom,
>> by the use of horrible bland diets for stomach ulcers that
>> were due to bacteria.

> come to think of it, i've seen in more than one place the
> korean practice of cooking short ribs, eating some, and
> putting it back on the grill to re-crisp. can't remember if
> it's re-dunked in the marinade, though.

Just to mention my experiment with salmon. The one hour treatment was
not noticeably different from the 24 hour one. The miso-sake mixture is
not very fluid and sticks to the fish. Let me make a horrible admission,
the sake bottle was empty and I used Scotch! It was good too!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:28:24 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
fired up random neurons and synapses to opine:

wrote:
>> I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm looking
>> for some new marinades. Anyone have a favorite? Also, how long to
>> marinate? I know I can Google this but I'd like to hear what regular
>> folks like to do.Thanks.
>
>This is my hands down favorite:

I am so making this, Nancy! This is just perfect for those days I know
in advance that I'm going to come home starved - like tomorrow when we
schlepp *back* to LA Superior for an attorneys' fees hearing. I am
going out right this minute to the market for some flank steak.
Doesn't hurt that it's on sale at Albertson's...

And I believe there's a Beringer chardonnay on special, tew.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:30:51 GMT, blake murphy
> fired up random neurons and synapses to
opine:

>my dad says that when he was a boy, they practically gave it away. of
>course, then you could get bones from the butcher for free.

When we lived in England in the '60s with the US Air Force, my folks
used to get spareribs for a penny a lb. b/c the Brits didn't eat them.
Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:28:24 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
> fired up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>
>> wrote:
>>> I want to grill a flank steak. I've done it before but I'm looking
>>> for some new marinades. Anyone have a favorite? Also, how long to
>>> marinate? I know I can Google this but I'd like to hear what regular
>>> folks like to do.Thanks.
>>
>> This is my hands down favorite:
>
> I am so making this, Nancy! This is just perfect for those days I know
> in advance that I'm going to come home starved - like tomorrow when we
> schlepp *back* to LA Superior for an attorneys' fees hearing. I am
> going out right this minute to the market for some flank steak.
> Doesn't hurt that it's on sale at Albertson's...

Oh, I hope you like it! The pineapple juice comes in little
6-packs, btw.

> And I believe there's a Beringer chardonnay on special, tew.

That'll help! Heh.

nancy

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

>> Anyone can "Google", Shelly
>
> Oh, so it's "Shelly," eh? Are you two an item these days?
>
> --Bryan

Jealous? He's all yours, fella.

-dk

"Nancy Young" > wrote in
:

> That'll help! Heh.
>
> nancy
>

Yes...Use it to get your gophers drunk. Strap the inebreated gophers on the
backs of the grey geese and release those geese in your back your. Can you
say Flying Rodeo? Take pictures. . Multpurpose...A new hobby for Ron and
Funny as hell. You do know how to sew teeny cowboy hats don't you?

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

In article 0>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> On Sat 14 Jun 2008 08:51:38p, hahabogus told us...
>
> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
> > 6.120:
> >
> >> On Sat 14 Jun 2008 05:16:38p, hahabogus told us...
> >>
> >>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in news:-
> >>> :
> >>>
> >>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> One time it worked out that I wasn't able to make a flank
> >>>>>> steak that I'd marinated so I made it the next day. It was
> >>>>>> mushy. 20 minutes? You'd hardly noticed you'd marinated the flank
> >>>>>> steak, I think 4 hours is too short.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'm thinking that's the acid in your pineapple juice.
> >>>>
> >>>> Definitely, though I had the idea marinade contains some
> >>>> acid by definition.
> >>>>
> >>>> nancy
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It is a enzime in the pineapple juice that tenderizes meat...
> >>>
> >>
> >> I thought that was only true or raw pineaple.
> >>
> >
> > No cooked pineapple can be used in gelatine because ccoking kills that
> > enzmime. But the tenderizing enzime lives on.
> >
>
> I knew that about the gelatin, but didn't realize that the cooked pineapple
> would still tenderize. Thanks, Alan.

Enzymes are really just very, very picky catalysts. And I believe that
all of them are inactivated by heat -- usually about the temperature at
which proteins become denatured.

Isaac

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > blake murphy > wrote:
> >
> >> yep, that will be very good. there are many variations, but this hits
> >> the high spots. (i wish i had a heat source hot enough to char it on
> >> the outside and still have a rare interior. damn apartment dwelling!)
> >>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
> >
> >Your stove doesn't have a broiler? Complain to the manager!
>
> it does, but i'll confess i haven't used it. it's electric, and i'm
> used to gas.
>
> your pal,
> blake


They both throw heat, you dipstick!! LOL!
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Huffy and Bubbles Do France: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 07:43:55 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
> wrote:

>On Jun 15, 9:36*am, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:15:39 -0700, sf <.> wrote:
>> >On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>In article >,
>> >> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>> >>> yep, that will be very good. *there are many variations, but this hits
>> >>> the high spots. *(i wish i had a heat source hot enough to char it on
>> >>> the outside and still have a rare interior. *damn apartment dwelling!)
>>
>> >Don't you have a fire escape? *Set a hibachi or small Weber out there.
>>
>> i have a balcony, but charcoal grills are strictly *verboten*.
>
>I'd move. I'm serious. I'd never want to live where I couldn't cook
>with wood/charcoal. Not having a gas range would also be a
>dealbreaker.
>>

i was not in much of a position to apartment-hunt when i took this
place, and am not now inclined to look for a new one. i also think
apartments with gas appliance are fairly rare now, unless it's a
pretty old building.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:45:38 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
>> > wrote:
>
>>> Your stove doesn't have a broiler? Complain to the manager!
>>
>> it does, but i'll confess i haven't used it. it's electric, and i'm
>> used to gas.
>
>You should try it. The one thing I could never stand was the
>broiler in gas ranges, in that bottom drawer. Now they are
>in the oven like electric ranges and so much easier to use.
>You should try your electric broiler.
>
>nancy

i should. right now the oven is a *de facto* cupboard for pots and
pans.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 07:47:50 -0700 (PDT), Bobo Bonobo®
> wrote:

>On Jun 15, 9:35*am, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:07:51 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >In article >,
>> > blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>> >> yep, that will be very good. *there are many variations, but this hits
>> >> the high spots. *(i wish i had a heat source hot enough to char it on
>> >> the outside and still have a rare interior. *damn apartment dwelling!)
>>
>> >> your pal,
>> >> blake
>>
>> >Your stove doesn't have a broiler? *Complain to the manager!
>>
>> it does, but i'll confess i haven't used it. *it's electric, and i'm
>> used to gas.
>
>Electric broilers do work. No substitute for charcoal/wood, but they
>are the one aspect of electric ovens that I don't particularly
>dislike. I do almost always use some kind of spacer to get the meat
>closer to the heating element though.
>>

o.k., you people may have shamed me into it.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:51:22 -0700, sf <.> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:13:55 -0700 (PDT),
>wrote:
>
>>I've had the "mushy" problem before; too much freshly grated ginger in
>>the long-time marinade had an adverse affect on beef for me. I've
>>read since that there's an enzyme in it, similar to that which is in
>>papaya, and which is one of the active ingredients in commercial meat
>>tenderizer.
>
>ginger tenderizes meat? I must not use enough.

this is a new one on me, too.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:41:03 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> blake wrote on Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:16:03 GMT:
>
>>> It's very untraditional but quite often there is very little
>>> taste from the marinade unless a substantial amount is left
>>> on the surface of the food when cooking. I am pretty well
>>> convinced by the Washington Post article. I am going to cook
>>> some salmon where the recipe calls for marinading for 12 to
>>> 36 hours and, AFAICS, an hour is enough.
>>>
>>> It would not surprise me at all if traditional wisdom is
>>> wrong and has never been tested. Just think about how long
>>> people were treated, according to traditional medical wisdom,
>>> by the use of horrible bland diets for stomach ulcers that
>>> were due to bacteria.
>
>> come to think of it, i've seen in more than one place the
>> korean practice of cooking short ribs, eating some, and
>> putting it back on the grill to re-crisp. can't remember if
>> it's re-dunked in the marinade, though.
>
>Just to mention my experiment with salmon. The one hour treatment was
>not noticeably different from the 24 hour one. The miso-sake mixture is
>not very fluid and sticks to the fish. Let me make a horrible admission,
>the sake bottle was empty and I used Scotch! It was good too!

i have seen gin recommended as a substitute in chinese cooking for
chinese wine in some recipes. scotch i guess just makes it fusion.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:45:10 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
fired up random neurons and synapses to opine:

>Oh, I hope you like it! The pineapple juice comes in little
>6-packs, btw.

I know! I had bought one of those little six packs a while back when I
was making something else and had 4 of them left over. And I wound up
not getting the flank steak until this afternoon after work and wound
up getting it at Ralph's and am SO happy I did!* I will report back
on the flank steak tomorrow!
>
>> And I believe there's a Beringer chardonnay on special, tew.
>
>That'll help! Heh.

*OMG! I went tonight and the usually $7.99 a bottle Beringer
California Selection was $3.49! You'd think this stuff was swill at
the $7.99 price, but it's really a good everyday table wine, and at
$3.49, I cleaned 'em out. I don't care if I'm late for work or even
*get* to work tomorrow, because I'm hitting every Ralph's in Orange
County tomorrow!

No one in Orange County saw this post, right?

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"