I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
handy.

sometimes pasta needs a little more moisture and the pasta water is
nice to have handy in case. When making plain pasta with basil,
tomato, parm, garlic, crushed red pepper, etc., I tend to add too much
olive oil, or cheese or maybe even butter so that it's not dry. By
saving the pasta water, it brings flavor together, adds moisture, and
makes it creamy without adding too much oil or grease. When having
spaghetti sauce, a little hot pasta water is sometimes needed to bring
it together.

Karen

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Karen >
wrote:

>I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
>reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
>handy.
>
>sometimes pasta needs a little more moisture and the pasta water is
>nice to have handy in case. When making plain pasta with basil,
>tomato, parm, garlic, crushed red pepper, etc., I tend to add too much
>olive oil, or cheese or maybe even butter so that it's not dry. By
>saving the pasta water, it brings flavor together, adds moisture, and
>makes it creamy without adding too much oil or grease. When having
>spaghetti sauce, a little hot pasta water is sometimes needed to bring
>it together.
>
>Karen

This is something that Lidia Bastianich recommends. She often adds
pasta water to her sauce, and lets it reduce. Supposedly it helps the
sauce adhere to the pasta a bit better.

Christine

"Karen" > wrote in message
...
> I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
> reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
> handy.
>
> sometimes pasta needs a little more moisture and the pasta water is
> nice to have handy in case. When making plain pasta with basil,
> tomato, parm, garlic, crushed red pepper, etc., I tend to add too much
> olive oil, or cheese or maybe even butter so that it's not dry. By
> saving the pasta water, it brings flavor together, adds moisture, and
> makes it creamy without adding too much oil or grease. When having
> spaghetti sauce, a little hot pasta water is sometimes needed to bring
> it together.
>

I spend a lot of time making sure the pasta is drained. I cannot imagine
adding water.

On Jun 14, 11:41*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> "Karen" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
> > reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
> > handy.
>
> > sometimes pasta needs a little more moisture and the pasta water is
> > nice to have handy in case. When making plain pasta with basil,
> > tomato, parm, garlic, crushed red pepper, etc., I tend to add too much
> > olive oil, or cheese or maybe even butter so that it's not dry. By
> > saving the pasta water, it brings flavor together, adds moisture, and
> > makes it creamy without adding too much oil or grease. When having
> > spaghetti sauce, a little hot pasta water is sometimes needed to bring
> > it together.
>
> I spend a lot of time making sure the pasta is drained. I cannot imagine
> adding water.

I've thought about this for the past few minutes. I've taken the
middle road. I do not reserve or add pasta water, but I don't drain
the pasta overmuch, and certainly follow the admonition against
rinsing. I also tend to cook the pasta a bit past al dente for
bolognese applications. When I do non-tomato-based tosses, instead of
pasta water, I prefer a little half&half (or heavy cream), and in that
case I do cook the pasta slightly less, but add the cream immediately
to the pasta, while it's still good and hot.
If you're not adding butterfat or olive oil out of a concern for
minimizing fat, who knows? I don't. In that case, the starchy
solution might be useful in moderation.

--Bryan

On Jun 14, 10:30*pm, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
> I've thought about this for the past few minutes. *I've taken the
> middle road. *I do not reserve or add pasta water, but I don't drain
> the pasta overmuch, and certainly follow the admonition against
> rinsing. *I also tend to cook the pasta a bit past al dente for
> bolognese applications. *When I do non-tomato-based tosses, instead of
> pasta water, I prefer a little half&half (or heavy cream), and in that
> case I do cook the pasta slightly less, but add the cream immediately
> to the pasta, while it's still good and hot.
> If you're not adding butterfat or olive oil out of a concern for
> minimizing fat, who knows? *I don't. *In that case, the starchy
> solution might be useful in moderation.

I have been thinking that the pasta water may be good to try for
chilled pasta dishes, too, such as macaroni salad or pasta salads.
Saving some pasta water may lessen the need for so much mayonnaise or
oil or vinegar, not that there's anything wrong wtih that, but
sometimes it seems that chilled pasta sometimes dries out a little,
especially overnight, that it may be a good idea to experiment with
adding water instead of mayo or oil sometimes.

Karen

On Jun 14, 9:41*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> I spend a lot of time making sure the pasta is drained. I cannot imagine
> adding water.

I like to drain the pasta very well, too. It usually sits in the
collander while I toast the pinenuts, and then saute the garlic, add
the tomato, basil, parsley, pepper flakes, etc., and drizzle olive
oil. This is when a little piping hot pasta water comes in handy to
bring all of the flavors together. Like a 1/4 cup or so...

Karen

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Karen >
wrote:

>I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
>reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
>handy.
>
>sometimes pasta needs a little more moisture and the pasta water is
>nice to have handy in case. When making plain pasta with basil,
>tomato, parm, garlic, crushed red pepper, etc., I tend to add too much
>olive oil, or cheese or maybe even butter so that it's not dry. By
>saving the pasta water, it brings flavor together, adds moisture, and
>makes it creamy without adding too much oil or grease. When having
>spaghetti sauce, a little hot pasta water is sometimes needed to bring
>it together.
>
>Karen

I do it all the time (saving some pasta water). I don't always use it,
but often do. It's a common trick in Italy, that's where I learnt it.
As you say, it's "binding" and not greasy.

Nathalie in Switzerland

"Karen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
> reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
> handy.
> Karen
>

Almost every Italian pasta recipe requires it. L'acqua di cottura-- it's
essential, not so much to make things stick but to meld flavors and allow
the partial penetration of the saucing into the pasta. Foreigners are very
surprised at how "undone" pasta comes off the burner here. Last week I had
a student say that it was tough!

On Jun 15, 12:31*am, Nathalie Chiva
> wrote:
> I do it all the time (saving some pasta water). I don't always use it,
> but often do. It's a common trick in Italy, that's where I learnt it.
> As you say, it's "binding" and not greasy.

you know, Nathalie, I have heard to do this, seen it done on TV, but
thought to myself that "oh I won't need water" because that is for
real recipes or large dishes or something and have never done it. But,
now that I see the goodness it can add, I will always save some of the
water, just in case.

I bet in restaurants they use pasta water for other purposes and
perhaps even save some for start of the next day.

Karen

"Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio

I also tend to cook the pasta a bit past al dente for bolognese
applications.

*Why?

When I do non-tomato-based tosses, instead ofpasta water, I prefer a little
half&half (or heavy cream), and in that
case I do cook the pasta slightly less, but add the cream immediately
to the pasta, while it's still good and hot.

*Artusi allows for the addition of cream or butter to ragù, but why to the
pasta?

If you're not adding butterfat or olive oil out of a concern for
minimizing fat, who knows? I don't. In that case, the starchy
solution might be useful in moderation.

--Bryan

*You must allow for the possibility that Italians know how to cook pasta.
Shrieks of horror would go up if I read your post out loud in the piazza!

There is never a reason to cook pasta past al dente, and many reasons why
not to. Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must chew
it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth that
incorporate while chewing.

In addition to that there's just the pleasure of perfectly done pasta versus
slimy, soft ick.

"Giusi" > wrote in
:

> "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> I also tend to cook the pasta a bit past al dente for bolognese
> applications.
>
> *Why?
>
> When I do non-tomato-based tosses, instead ofpasta water, I prefer a
> little half&half (or heavy cream), and in that
> case I do cook the pasta slightly less, but add the cream immediately
> to the pasta, while it's still good and hot.
>
> *Artusi allows for the addition of cream or butter to ragù, but why to
> the pasta?
>
> If you're not adding butterfat or olive oil out of a concern for
> minimizing fat, who knows? I don't. In that case, the starchy
> solution might be useful in moderation.
>
> --Bryan
>
> *You must allow for the possibility that Italians know how to cook
> pasta. Shrieks of horror would go up if I read your post out loud in
> the piazza!
>
> There is never a reason to cook pasta past al dente, and many reasons
> why not to. Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is
> digested better and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the
> fact that you must chew it adds to the digestibility because of
> essential enzymes in the mouth that incorporate while chewing.
>
> In addition to that there's just the pleasure of perfectly done pasta
> versus slimy, soft ick.
>
>
>

When I eat pasta I lean towards the butter cream sauces. Or the spaghetti
sausage meat types of sauces....None of those blue cheese walnut dealies
for me. But that's what I am used to. Damn it now I feel like a linguinni
with clam sauce...

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

"hahabogus" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> When I eat pasta I lean towards the butter cream sauces. Or the spaghetti
> sausage meat types of sauces....None of those blue cheese walnut dealies
> for me. But that's what I am used to. Damn it now I feel like a linguinni
> with clam sauce...

Ah, what the hell. Just check into a village in Italy for a couple of
months and try them all. What's to lose?

On Jun 15, 3:16*am, hahabogus > wrote:
> "Giusi" > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > * I also tend to cook the pasta a bit past al dente for bolognese
> > applications.
>
> > *Why?
>
> > When I do non-tomato-based tosses, instead ofpasta water, I prefer a
> > little half&half (or heavy cream), and in that
> > case I do cook the pasta slightly less, but add the cream immediately
> > to the pasta, while it's still good and hot.
>
> > *Artusi allows for the addition of cream or butter to ragù, but why to
> > the pasta?
>
> > If you're not adding butterfat or olive oil out of a concern for
> > minimizing fat, who knows? *I don't. *In that case, the starchy
> > solution might be useful in moderation.
>
> > --Bryan
>
> > *You must allow for the possibility that Italians know how to cook
> > pasta. Shrieks of horror would go up if I read your post out loud in
> > the piazza!
>
> > There is never a reason to cook pasta past al dente, and many reasons
> > why not to. *Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is
> > digested better and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the
> > fact that you must chew it adds to the digestibility because of
> > essential enzymes in the mouth that incorporate while chewing.
>
> > In addition to that there's just the pleasure of perfectly done pasta
> > versus slimy, soft ick.
>
> When I eat pasta I lean towards the butter cream sauces. Or the spaghetti
> sausage meat types of sauces....None of those blue cheese walnut dealies
> for me. But that's what I am used to. Damn it now I feel like a linguinni
> with clam sauce...

As long as you don't smell like a linguini with clam sauce
>
> --
>
> The house of the burning beet-Alan

--Bryan

On Jun 15, 2:56*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> * I also tend to cook the pasta a bit past al dente for bolognese
> applications.
>
> *Why?
>
> When I do non-tomato-based tosses, instead ofpasta water, I prefer a little
> half&half (or heavy cream), and in that
> case I do cook the pasta slightly less, but add the cream immediately
> to the pasta, while it's still good and hot.
>
> *Artusi allows for the addition of cream or butter to ragù, but why to the
> pasta?

To keep it from drying out while I attend to other chores.

I've never asked Mr. Artusi for permission before, nor do I really
esteem Ms. Child to the extent that I joke about here. Also, contrary
to rumor, I do not have an altar set up to Barbie, or even Skipper.
>
> If you're not adding butterfat or olive oil out of a concern for
> minimizing fat, who knows? *I don't. *In that case, the starchy
> solution might be useful in moderation.
>
> --Bryan
>
> *You must allow for the possibility that Italians know how to cook pasta.
> Shrieks of horror would go up if I read your post out loud in the piazza!

Oh come on. You're just feeding into stereotypes that Americans have
of "Old Europe."
>
> There is never a reason to cook pasta past al dente, and many reasons why
> not to. *Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
> and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must chew
> it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth that
> incorporate while chewing.

Do you have citations for that? I'm not questioning your claim, but
I'd be interested in seeing that research.
>
> In addition to that there's just the pleasure of perfectly done pasta versus
> slimy, soft ick.

I'd just rather err on the side of overdone, versus underdone.

--Bryan

On Jun 15, 3:53�am, Karen > wrote:
> On Jun 15, 12:31�am, Nathalie Chiva
>
> > wrote:
> > I do it all the time (saving some pasta water). I don't always use it,
> > but often do. It's a common trick in Italy, that's where I learnt it.
> > As you say, it's "binding" and not greasy.
>
> you know, Nathalie, I have heard to do this, seen it done on TV, but
> thought to myself that "oh I won't need water" because that is for
> real recipes or large dishes or something and have never done it. But,
> now that I see the goodness it can add, I will always save some of the
> water, just in case.
>
> I bet in restaurants they use pasta water for other purposes and
> perhaps even save some for start of the next day.

Restaurants don't cook pasta the way folks do at home... restaurants
don't drain pasta water down the sink, they maintain large pots of
simmering water all day and cook the individual portions (typically
par-cooked pasta) in perferated baskets hung from the pot edge a la
deep fryer, the water is drained back into the pot... that pasta
cooking water becomes quite starchy and is constantly ladled out for
other dishes like deglazing, for sauces, for making soup du jour, and
for baking liquid.... more fresh water is constantly replenished so
the pasta water does not become glue. Most all restaurants also
maintain a few very large pots of simmering water all day to dip
from... to save heating time... takes too long to bring a fresh pot of
water to the boil for every dish, and they don't cook with hot tap
water, which still is not nearly hot enough... Chinese restaurants
maintain a large pot of simmering water and simmering stock at each
station. The first thing restaurants do upon starting up each day,
after turning on the lights, is to start the large pots of water to
heat.

There are many designs, this is typical: http://store.bowerykitchens.com/pascookcom.html

> > "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio



Oh come on. You're just feeding into stereotypes that Americans have
of "Old Europe."

I live, cook for money and teach cookery IN Italy. I have few stereotypes.
>
> There is never a reason to cook pasta past al dente, and many reasons why
> not to. Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
> and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must
> chew
> it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth
> that
> incorporate while chewing.

Do you have citations for that? I'm not questioning your claim, but
I'd be interested in seeing that research.

It is in Italian done in Italy. I heard it on a consumer food show. It may
or may not be online, but I will look.
>
> In addition to that there's just the pleasure of perfectly done pasta
> versus
> slimy, soft ick.

I'd just rather err on the side of overdone, versus underdone.

--Bryan

Rare pasta might be deadly?

"Michael "Dog3"" > ha scritto nel
>> Ah, what the hell. Just check into a village in Italy for a couple of
>> months and try them all. What's to lose?
>
> 20 pounds
>
> Michael
>

You could find them here. Unless you keep as busy as a local and eat like
them as well.

On Jun 15, 7:06*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> > > "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> Oh come on. *You're just feeding into stereotypes that Americans have
> of "Old Europe."
>
> I live, cook for money and teach cookery IN Italy. *I have few stereotypes.
>
No, I meant the notion that old fashioned impromptu speeches in the
piazza are a common thing.
>
> > There is never a reason to cook pasta past al dente, and many reasons why
> > not to. Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
> > and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must
> > chew
> > it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth
> > that
> > incorporate while chewing.
>
> Do you have citations for that? *I'm not questioning your claim, but
> I'd be interested in seeing that research.
>
> It is in Italian done in Italy. *I heard it on a consumer food show. *It may
> or may not be online, but I will look.

If your consumer food shows are anything like ours, I wouldn't trust
them.
>
>
>
> > In addition to that there's just the pleasure of perfectly done pasta
> > versus
> > slimy, soft ick.
>
> I'd just rather err on the side of overdone, versus underdone.
>
> --Bryan
>
> Rare pasta might be deadly?

No, just gummy and tasting of undercooked wheat.

--Bryan

"Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Jun 15, 7:06 am, "Giusi" > wrote:
>No, I meant the notion that old fashioned impromptu speeches in the
piazza are a common thing.

Not uncommon if you're listening.
>
Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
> > and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must
> > chew
> > it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth
> > that incorporate while chewing.
>
> Do you have citations for that? I'm not questioning your claim, but
> I'd be interested in seeing that research.
>

Sorry, I searched but didn't find this paper. Things do not get distributed
on line as quickly or as widely here. One part of the citation was that
babies often used to get pasta cooked longer and softer because it was
thought easier for them to dogest, but in fact al dente pasta is better for
them and us. It was previously thought that al dente came about partly for
taste and partly because it allowed the pasta to continue to swell in the
stomach, therefore avoiding that eaters eat very much of the next course
which was the more expensive food. Sort of the Italian Yorkshire pudding.

If your consumer food shows are anything like ours, I wouldn't trust
them.

Well they are anti-American.

No, just gummy and tasting of undercooked wheat.

--Bryan

That's what describes overcooked pasta!

On Jun 15, 8:55�am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Bobo Bonobo�" > ha scritto nel ...
> On Jun 15, 7:06 am, "Giusi" > wrote:>No, I meant the notion that old fashioned impromptu speeches in the
>
> piazza are a common thing.
>
> Not uncommon if you're listening.
>
> �Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
>
> > > and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must
> > > chew
> > > it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth
> > > that incorporate while chewing.
>
> > Do you have citations for that? I'm not questioning your claim, but
> > I'd be interested in seeing that research.
>
> Sorry, I searched but didn't find this paper.

Of course you can't, because you made it up.

On Jun 15, 7:55*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel ...
> On Jun 15, 7:06 am, "Giusi" > wrote:>No, I meant the notion that old fashioned impromptu speeches in the
>
> piazza are a common thing.
>
> Not uncommon if you're listening.

Really? In the USA, if someone were to "get on a soapbox" in a large
public area, most folks would assume that the person was at least
bordering on mentally ill.
>
> *Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
>
> > > and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must
> > > chew
> > > it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth
> > > that incorporate while chewing.
>
> > Do you have citations for that? I'm not questioning your claim, but
> > I'd be interested in seeing that research.
>
> Sorry, I searched but didn't find this paper. *Things do not get distributed
> on line as quickly or as widely here. *One part of the citation was that
> babies often used to get pasta cooked longer and softer because it was
> thought easier for them to dogest, but in fact al dente pasta is better for
> them and us. *It was previously thought that al dente came about partly for
> taste and partly because it allowed the pasta to continue to swell in the
> stomach, therefore avoiding that eaters eat very much of the next course
> which was the more expensive food. *Sort of the Italian Yorkshire pudding.
>
> If your consumer food shows are anything like ours, I wouldn't trust
> them.
>
> Well they are anti-American.

At this point in history, they have no excuse to be. What you have
isn't any better. Berlusconi and Bush are as much alike as two
leaders could be. I hope that the crap that's going on in Spain right
now doesn't lead to their fascist party coming back to power.
>
> No, just gummy and tasting of undercooked wheat.
>
> --Bryan
>
> That's what describes overcooked pasta!

How can overcooked taste undercooked?

--Bryan

"Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto On Jun 15, 7:55 am, "Giusi"
> wrote:
> > Do you have citations for that? I'm not questioning your claim, but
> > I'd be interested in seeing that research.
>
> Sorry, I searched but didn't find this paper. Things do not get
> distributed
> on line as quickly or as widely here. One part of the citation was that
> babies often used to get pasta cooked longer and softer because it was
> thought easier for them to digest, but in fact al dente pasta is better
> for
> them and us. > If your consumer food shows are anything like ours, I
> wouldn't trust
> them.
>
> Well they are anti-American.

At this point in history, they have no excuse to be.

Anti-American FOOD. There is terrible propaganda spread here about how
Americans all eat McDonald's and sweets and everybody is hugely obese. I've
started a weekly online program to promote a fairer view, called Mase in
America, la buona cucina americana.

> No, just gummy and tasting of undercooked wheat.
>
> --Bryan
>
> That's what describes overcooked pasta!

How can overcooked taste undercooked?

Undercooked solid tastes of nothing, really. I think you better try again.
It's the gummy that happens with overcooking. There should be a microscopic
dot or line of white at the center when you bite it. By the time you get it
drained, sauced and on the table it will be gone. Al dente pasta is slick,
lively, you have to chase it a bit!
Trust me, it really is better.

"Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio "Giusi"
> wrote:
> "Bobo Bonobo?"

Sorry, I searched but didn't find this paper.

Of course you can't, because you made it up.

You search, foulmouth. "dirigibilità di pasta al dente" are your terms, but
it may be inside rai.it or some other official site.Google does not really
go all out when you search on foreign terms other than names which are
easily found in imdb or the news.

On Jun 15, 3:48 am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Karen" > ha scritto nel ...
>
> > I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
> > reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
> > handy.
> > Karen
>
> Almost every Italian pasta recipe requires it. L'acqua di cottura-- it's
> essential, not so much to make things stick but to meld flavors and allow
> the partial penetration of the saucing into the pasta. Foreigners are very
> surprised at how "undone" pasta comes off the burner here. Last week I had
> a student say that it was tough!

I had constantly heard about using pasta water in sauces etc., and
assumed it
was in part because the starch in the water would help bind the sauce
(waddoIknow?).
The rest of this discussion is getting too esoteric for me, so would
you
have some outside reading you could suggest (websites, books, magazine
articles)
that explain the whys and hows and whens of using l'acqua di
cottura?

TIA
maxine in ri

On Jun 15, 9:56*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio "Giusi"
>
> > wrote:
> > "Bobo Bonobo?"
>
> Sorry, I searched but didn't find this paper.
>
> > Of course you can't, because you made it up.
>
> You search, foulmouth. *"dirigibilità di pasta al dente"
> are your terms, but it may be inside rai.it or some other
> official site.Google does not really
> go all out when you search on foreign terms other
> than names which are easily found in imdb or the news.

Sheldon does not like Italians.

--Bryan

"maxine in ri" > ha scritto nel messaggio > On Jun 15,
3:48 am, "Giusi" > wrote:
Almost every Italian pasta recipe requires it. L'acqua di cottura-- it's
>> essential, not so much to make things stick but to meld flavors and allow
>> the partial penetration of the saucing into the pasta. Foreigners are
>> very surprised at how "undone" pasta comes off the burner here. Last
>> week I had a student say that it was tough!
>
> I had constantly heard about using pasta water in sauces etc., and
> assumed it
> was in part because the starch in the water would help bind the sauce
> (waddoIknow?).

What I was taught is this: for generic saucing, you add about one ladle (+-
..5 cup) or enough of it to loosen the sauce in its pan, drain the pasta and
quickly turn it into the sauce pan, tossing around briefly. You'll see the
pasta sieze the sauce because it is still boiling hot and cooking.

Some sauce recipes ask for cooking water much earlier, like to deglaze a
sauté pan before adding the rest of the ingredients, or to melt a cheese
like Gorgonzola, or to soften things such as anchovies which will disappear
completely leaving just their essence behind.

After enough pasta cooking, when you are making up a sauce you'll just reach
a point where you look and say, yep, it needs some pasta water!

If you read cookbooks, although I don't know the books, I think if you look
at any of the really good Italian books you'll see those instructions at
some point. My kid says Lidia is pretty good, Silver Spoon is really
Italian, and there are several people like Faith Willinger who are writing
currently. There are innumerable blogs with current cookery explored, one
of the best being Ginger and Tomato in Italian, and some in English, too.
Mine, for example, is about 65% food, although right now it's silliness and
music, so tough luck.

> The rest of this discussion is getting too esoteric for me,

!!!?

"Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto

Sheldon does not like Italians.

--Bryan

Sheldon does not like humans.

On 2008-06-15, Sheldon > wrote:

> Restaurants don't cook pasta the way folks do at home... restaurants
> don't drain pasta water down the sink, they maintain large pots of
> simmering water all day and cook the individual portions (typically
> par-cooked pasta) in perferated baskets hung from the pot edge a la
> deep fryer, the water is drained back into the pot... that pasta
> cooking water becomes quite starchy and is constantly ladled out for
> other dishes like deglazing, for sauces, for making soup du jour, and
> for baking liquid.... more fresh water is constantly replenished so
> the pasta water does not become glue. Most all restaurants also
> maintain a few very large pots of simmering water all day to dip
> from... to save heating time... takes too long to bring a fresh pot of
> water to the boil for every dish, and they don't cook with hot tap
> water, which still is not nearly hot enough... Chinese restaurants
> maintain a large pot of simmering water and simmering stock at each
> station. The first thing restaurants do upon starting up each day,
> after turning on the lights, is to start the large pots of water to
> heat.

Shel-Shock speak with straight tongue.

nb

"Giusi" wrote:
> "Sheldon"
"Giusi" wrote:
> > "Bobo Bonobo?"
>
> Sorry, I searched but didn't find this paper.
>
> Of course you can't, because you made it up.
>
> You search. �

You think waving your WOP flag all over the place gives you an edge on
intellect, NOT!

You made the claim, you find the proof... obviously you can't because
it doesn't exist... and because you're really a low class dummy you
LIED!

Pasta doesn't digest quickly anyway even when overcooked, is why long
distance athletes fill up on pasta before an event... undercooked
pasta takes even longer to digest... in fact undercooked pasta passes
through before much of its nutrients are extracted, so it's just
wasteful.

Guineas prefer undercooked pasta because most are too poor to eat much
else so besides their bitter tongues pasta is all they have to chew,
and because it digests slower they feel full longer. Leave it to the
dago dopes to come up with idiotic terms like al dente, why can't they
just admit they eat undercooked pasta because they can't cook and have
their taste in their ass. Pasta ain't rocket science, it's a common
dish because it's relatively cheap and most anyone can boil water.
And how would a guidolena know al dente anyway, there're no dentists
in dagoland, you don't have your own teeth... should call it al deco
gummo! <G>

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

Sheldon

On Sun 15 Jun 2008 08:37:32a, Giusi told us...

>
>
> "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto
>
> Sheldon does not like Italians.
>
> --Bryan
>
> Sheldon does not like humans.

Sheldon is not human and, therefore, cannot relate to humanity.


--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 06(VI)/15(XV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Father's Day
-------------------------------------------
We're going to keep on repeating
history until we get a passing grade.
-------------------------------------------

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:06:55 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>> > "Bobo Bonobo®" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>
>
>Oh come on. You're just feeding into stereotypes that Americans have
>of "Old Europe."
>
>I live, cook for money and teach cookery IN Italy. I have few stereotypes.
>>
>> There is never a reason to cook pasta past al dente, and many reasons why
>> not to. Medical research has shown that al dente pasta is digested better
>> and more easily than overcooked pasta, and that the fact that you must
>> chew
>> it adds to the digestibility because of essential enzymes in the mouth
>> that
>> incorporate while chewing.
>
>Do you have citations for that? I'm not questioning your claim, but
>I'd be interested in seeing that research.
>
>It is in Italian done in Italy. I heard it on a consumer food show. It may
>or may not be online, but I will look.
>>

the enzyme in saliva is ptialin. i don't know if it is also produced
in the other organs of digestion.

your pal,
blake

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
> "Karen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> I've found that dipping a cup into the boiling salted pasta water for
>> reserve before draining is a good idea. The reserved water can come
>> handy.
>> Karen
>>
>
> Almost every Italian pasta recipe requires it. L'acqua di cottura-- it's
> essential, not so much to make things stick but to meld flavors and allow
> the partial penetration of the saucing into the pasta. Foreigners are
> very surprised at how "undone" pasta comes off the burner here. Last week
> I had a student say that it was tough!
>

I love pasta al dente but not saucy. Not dripping. I'd rather have it tossed
with
a light garlicky butter and some lightly cooked vegetables, a sprinkle of
parmesan.
But I don't eat it often. I'm one of those who avoids highly processed,
refined
flours. And whole wheat pasta sucks bigtime.

"Karen" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 14, 9:41 pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> I spend a lot of time making sure the pasta is drained. I cannot imagine
> adding water.

>I like to drain the pasta very well, too. It usually sits in the
>collander while I toast the pinenuts, and then saute the garlic, add
>the tomato, basil, parsley, pepper flakes, etc., and drizzle olive
>oil. This is when a little piping hot pasta water comes in handy to
>bring all of the flavors together. Like a 1/4 cup or so...

Well, okay, I see now what you mean. You're a much more advanced
pasta cook than I am. This actually sounds delicious. One reason I don't
do much pasta is that it is one of those foods I like too much, so I tend
to overeat it.

"Karen" > wrote in message

>I like to drain the pasta very well, too. It usually sits in the
>collander while I toast the pinenuts, and then saute the garlic, add
>the tomato, basil, parsley, pepper flakes, etc., and drizzle olive
>oil. This is when a little piping hot pasta water comes in handy to
>bring all of the flavors together. Like a 1/4 cup or so...

I understand that people do this but doesn't it result
in a watery pasta dish, with a puddle at the bottom of
the bowl or spreading over the plate?

Steve

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:50:48 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>"Karen" > wrote in message
>
>>I like to drain the pasta very well, too. It usually sits in the
>>collander while I toast the pinenuts, and then saute the garlic, add
>>the tomato, basil, parsley, pepper flakes, etc., and drizzle olive
>>oil. This is when a little piping hot pasta water comes in handy to
>>bring all of the flavors together. Like a 1/4 cup or so...
>
>I understand that people do this but doesn't it result
>in a watery pasta dish, with a puddle at the bottom of
>the bowl or spreading over the plate?
>
>Steve

No it doesn't. One of the things you are doing often after you add
pasta water, at least the way Lidia does it, is to cook it down a
bit... It helps meld the pasta sauce, and then when you add the pasta
to the sauce, it helps it adhere better to the pasta.

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:50:48 +0000 (UTC),
> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>>"Karen" > wrote in message
>>
>>>I like to drain the pasta very well, too. It usually sits in the
>>>collander while I toast the pinenuts, and then saute the garlic, add
>>>the tomato, basil, parsley, pepper flakes, etc., and drizzle olive
>>>oil. This is when a little piping hot pasta water comes in handy to
>>>bring all of the flavors together. Like a 1/4 cup or so...
>>
>>I understand that people do this but doesn't it result
>>in a watery pasta dish, with a puddle at the bottom of
>>the bowl or spreading over the plate?
>>
>>Steve
>
> No it doesn't. One of the things you are doing often after you add
> pasta water, at least the way Lidia does it, is to cook it down a
> bit... It helps meld the pasta sauce, and then when you add the pasta
> to the sauce, it helps it adhere better to the pasta.
>

Explained this way, it does make sense.

Christine Dabney > wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:50:48 +0000 (UTC),
>(Steve Pope) wrote:

>>"Karen" > wrote in message

>>>I like to drain the pasta very well, too. It usually sits in the
>>>collander while I toast the pinenuts, and then saute the garlic, add
>>>the tomato, basil, parsley, pepper flakes, etc., and drizzle olive
>>>oil. This is when a little piping hot pasta water comes in handy to
>>>bring all of the flavors together. Like a 1/4 cup or so...

>>I understand that people do this but doesn't it result
>>in a watery pasta dish, with a puddle at the bottom of
>>the bowl or spreading over the plate?

>No it doesn't. One of the things you are doing often after you add
>pasta water, at least the way Lidia does it, is to cook it down a
>bit... It helps meld the pasta sauce, and then when you add the pasta
>to the sauce, it helps it adhere better to the pasta.

Just hasn't been my experience but maybe I have not tried
a technique that would work.

I mostly make two general categories of pasta dish. One with
a sauce (tomato-based) prepared separately, the other
where I add (usually mostly sauteed) ingredients, olive
oil, and vinegar to the cooked pasta, and heat the entire
thing for a minute. In both cases if I don't fully drain the
pasta, there is wateriness.

For the first category I place the sauce on top of
each serving of pasta to serve it. I would bristle
at the idea of mixing the pasta and sauce, which would
seem to be what would be necessary to get excess water
to absorb. So maybe that is it. (You mix pasta and
tomato sauce together if you're serving a huge group of people
and have given up on doing it right for the sake
of convenience, in my universe.)

For the second category, I'm guessing some people do
not use vinegar so maybe that compensates.

Steve

On Jun 15, 9:03*am, Sheldon > wrote:
> You think waving your WOP flag all over the place gives you an edge on
> intellect, NOT!
>
> You made the claim, you find the proof... obviously you can't because
> it doesn't exist... and because you're really a low class dummy you
> LIED!
>
> Pasta doesn't digest quickly anyway even when overcooked, is why long
> distance athletes fill up on pasta before an event... undercooked
> pasta takes even longer to digest... in fact undercooked pasta passes
> through before much of its nutrients are extracted, so it's just
> wasteful.
>
> Guineas prefer undercooked pasta because most are too poor to eat much
> else so besides their bitter tongues pasta is all they have to chew,
> and because it digests slower they feel full longer. *Leave it to the
> dago dopes to come up with idiotic terms like al dente, why can't they
> just admit they eat undercooked pasta because they can't cook and have
> their taste in their ass. *Pasta ain't rocket science, it's a common
> dish because it's relatively cheap and most anyone can boil water.
> And how would a guidolena know al dente anyway, there're no dentists
> in dagoland, you don't have your own teeth... should call it al deco
> gummo! <G>

Citation please.

Karen

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:26:46 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:


>I mostly make two general categories of pasta dish. One with
>a sauce (tomato-based) prepared separately, the other
>where I add (usually mostly sauteed) ingredients, olive
>oil, and vinegar to the cooked pasta, and heat the entire
>thing for a minute. In both cases if I don't fully drain the
>pasta, there is wateriness.
>
>For the first category I place the sauce on top of
>each serving of pasta to serve it. I would bristle
>at the idea of mixing the pasta and sauce, which would
>seem to be what would be necessary to get excess water
>to absorb. So maybe that is it. (You mix pasta and
>tomato sauce together if you're serving a huge group of people
>and have given up on doing it right for the sake
>of convenience, in my universe.)
>
>For the second category, I'm guessing some people do
>not use vinegar so maybe that compensates.
>
>Steve


One of the things I learned from Lidia is to NOT do it that way. She
invariably adds the pasta to the sauce. And it is not a ton of
sauce..just enough to coat the pasta.

This is the way I see her doing it. She makes her sauce. Adds a bit
of pasta water, then lets it reduce a bit more. Adds the still very
al dente pasta to the sauce, and lets it finish cooking in the
sauce...and again, it is not swimming in the sauce. As it finishes
cooking in the sauce, it absorbs a bit of the sauce. She turns off
the heat, and adds cheese, if it is appropriate.

Try it sometime. Add the pasta to the sauce, not the sauce to the
pasta.

Christine

On Jun 15, 10:50*am, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> I understand that people do this but doesn't it result
> in a watery pasta dish, with a puddle at the bottom of
> the bowl or spreading over the plate?

ahem, well, it certainly ended up that way last night. My enthusiasm
didn't pay off as it has before and the rule of thumb is less is more.

A couple of tablespoons would have sufficed.

Karen