Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>
>http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm

OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
wanted us to believe about him.

In any case, it's a US military base and where our troops go,
constitutional protection follows.... unless it's the Bush
administration trumping up terrorist charges. I'd prefer to think
we're not like the North Koreans who jailed and tortured a woman for 3
years just because she sang a traditional South Korean song in the
privacy of her own home.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

sf wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
> > wrote:
>
>> Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>
>> http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>
> OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
> communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
> wanted us to believe about him.
>
> In any case, it's a US military base and where our troops go,
> constitutional protection follows.... unless it's the Bush
> administration trumping up terrorist charges. I'd prefer to think
> we're not like the North Koreans who jailed and tortured a woman for 3
> years just because she sang a traditional South Korean song in the
> privacy of her own home.
>
>
I'm not going to argue the point with you any farther but you seriously
need to do some reading on when and where constitutional protections
apply. Not just some blog on the net but serious reading.

"George Shirley" schrieb :
> Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>
Ah, then the Cuban police patrols GITMO and the USAns in GITMO
are subject to Cuban law ?
No ? Thought so.
Hint : Many embassies of the US are only "rented", too.
They still count as USAn soil.

> http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
> > wrote:
>
>>Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>
>>http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>
> OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
> communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
> wanted us to believe about him.

Re Castro: huh?


--
Blinky
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Need a new feed?
http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:55:52 -0700, sf <.> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:
>
>>Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>
>>http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>
>OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
>communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
>wanted us to believe about him.
>
>In any case, it's a US military base and where our troops go,
>constitutional protection follows.... unless it's the Bush
>administration trumping up terrorist charges. I'd prefer to think
>we're not like the North Koreans who jailed and tortured a woman for 3
>years just because she sang a traditional South Korean song in the
>privacy of her own home.

it's pettifoggery - just as calling them 'illegal combatants' removes
any need to worry about the geneva conventions or habeas corpus.
sorta like cheney declaring himself a fourth branch of government and
therefore not subject to laws concerning the executive or legislature.
(the u.n.'s declaration of human rights they just ignore, period.)

apparently unnecessary now, since bush seems to feel he can imprison
u.s. citizens on his say-so alone. let freedom ring!

your pal,
blake

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:08:24 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>sf wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>>
>>> http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>>
>> OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
>> communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
>> wanted us to believe about him.
>>
>> In any case, it's a US military base and where our troops go,
>> constitutional protection follows.... unless it's the Bush
>> administration trumping up terrorist charges. I'd prefer to think
>> we're not like the North Koreans who jailed and tortured a woman for 3
>> years just because she sang a traditional South Korean song in the
>> privacy of her own home.
>>
>>
>I'm not going to argue the point with you any farther but you seriously
>need to do some reading on when and where constitutional protections
>apply. Not just some blog on the net but serious reading.

that's all well and good, but in large part the constitution is
designed to protect the individual from depredations by the
government. to bend it to deny people's rights is small-minded
indeed, if not a perversion.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:30:54 -0700, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>>
>>>http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>>
>> OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
>> communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
>> wanted us to believe about him.
>
>Re Castro: huh?
>

i think the idea here is that if he were in control of gitmo, castro
would not only free the detainees, but cook them a nice dinner.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:30:54 -0700, Blinky the Shark
> > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>>>
>>> OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
>>> communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
>>> wanted us to believe about him.
>>
>>Re Castro: huh?
>>
>
> i think the idea here is that if he were in control of gitmo, castro
> would not only free the detainees, but cook them a nice dinner.

Uh...so "they wanted us to believe" that he was in control of Guantanamo?

I don't remember "them" trying to get us to believe that. And I'm old
enough to remember when Castro *took over* Cuba, so I've not missed any of
his rule and "their" statements.


--
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Killing all posts from Google Groups
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On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:07:51 -0700, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:30:54 -0700, Blinky the Shark
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>>>>
>>>> OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
>>>> communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
>>>> wanted us to believe about him.
>>>
>>>Re Castro: huh?
>>>
>>
>> i think the idea here is that if he were in control of gitmo, castro
>> would not only free the detainees, but cook them a nice dinner.
>
>Uh...so "they wanted us to believe" that he was in control of Guantanamo?

Not at all!

>
>I don't remember "them" trying to get us to believe that. And I'm old
>enough to remember when Castro *took over* Cuba, so I've not missed any of
>his rule and "their" statements.

I'm saying that they wanted us to think (Harvard school of Law
graduate) Fidel Castro was the devil reincarnate, but he was really
the model of "Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer"
when it came to Guantanamo.

Of course, his rhetoric of the golden age was aimed at being friendly
with the Soviet Union. OK, he buttered his bread on both sides. 90
miles from the US was a very safe place when two super powers rattle
swords, but didn't really want to fight. Sure he had to endure a
little invasion, but he "beat" us off. Something smells really fishy
about the Bay of Pigs. You don't make a big blunder like that and the
county you lost to just ignores the base you've established on its
homeland.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:07:51 -0700, Blinky the Shark
> > wrote:
>
>>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:30:54 -0700, Blinky the Shark
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:52:57 -0500, George Shirley
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Go here and read all about it. We rent GITMO and have since 1903.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...tanamo-bay.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I stand corrected. It's the only US military base located in a
>>>>> communist country - which tells you Castro isn't everything they
>>>>> wanted us to believe about him.
>>>>
>>>>Re Castro: huh?
>>>>
>>>
>>> i think the idea here is that if he were in control of gitmo, castro
>>> would not only free the detainees, but cook them a nice dinner.
>>
>>Uh...so "they wanted us to believe" that he was in control of Guantanamo?
>
> Not at all!
>
>>
>>I don't remember "them" trying to get us to believe that. And I'm old
>>enough to remember when Castro *took over* Cuba, so I've not missed any of
>>his rule and "their" statements.
>
> I'm saying that they wanted us to think (Harvard school of Law
> graduate) Fidel Castro was the devil reincarnate, but he was really
> the model of "Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer"
> when it came to Guantanamo.

Yes, we were his enemy and he was ours. This is a new revelation?

> Of course, his rhetoric of the golden age was aimed at being friendly
> with the Soviet Union. OK, he buttered his bread on both sides. 90
> miles from the US was a very safe place when two super powers rattle
> swords, but didn't really want to fight. Sure he had to endure a
> little invasion, but he "beat" us off. Something smells really fishy

I love it when you talk dirty.

> about the Bay of Pigs. You don't make a big blunder like that and the
> county you lost to just ignores the base you've established on its
> homeland.

It may have been unprecedented. It also happened.


--
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Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> about the Bay of Pigs. You don't make a big blunder like that and the
>> county you lost to just ignores the base you've established on its
>> homeland.
>
> It may have been unprecedented. It also happened.
>
We also used to drive through East Germany while under communist rule.

"Blinky the Shark" > ha scritto nel messaggio >> about
the Bay of Pigs. You don't make a big blunder like that and the
>> county you lost to just ignores the base you've established on its
>> homeland.
>
> It may have been unprecedented. It also happened.

I think it useful to recall that in the US one hears only what is published
in US media about Cuba and that the PR crowd on that are Cubans who came for
many different reasons. While life has been hard in Cuba especially after
the breakop of the Soviets, it isn't any worse or perhaps is better than
life for most was under Trujillo.
People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.

Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
chomping at the bit. I know people who have been there, but they got
there via a work related visa. I want to go there before it becomes
"modernized".


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On 2008-06-24, sf <> wrote:

> there via a work related visa. I want to go there before it becomes
> "modernized".

Why?

You got a thing for run-down decrepit falling-in-to-ruin everything?

nb

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:59:10 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2008-06-24, sf <> wrote:
>
>> there via a work related visa. I want to go there before it becomes
>> "modernized".
>
>Why?
>
>You got a thing for run-down decrepit falling-in-to-ruin everything?
>
Why would I go to Cuba after it's been turned into another Las Vegas?
If I want to see modern buildings, I can stay here. I think you're
falling for the negative PR. There's more to see than a bunch of
dilapidated buildings. My friends say Cuba is worth visiting *now*.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On 2008-06-24, sf <> wrote:

> Why would I go to Cuba after it's been turned into another Las Vegas?

I asked first! BTW, I wouldn't, also.

> falling for the negative PR.

I'm not falling for anything. I have no desire to see Cuba. And what
negative PR? Most of what I've seen about Cuba has been homages to the
brave perservering Cubans who've allegedly thrived under Castro's misguided
dictatorship. Those plucky Cubans! Dirt poor, but happy and healthy. They
haven't contributed anything to the World in half a century except mojitos
and cigars, but they can all say their ABC's and count to ten. Jinkies!

> There's more to see than a bunch of
> dilapidated buildings.

What? A few new buildings, like the hospital in Michael Moore's Sicko? I've
watched every tv program I can on Cuba, from the history to the music to the
cooking and even shows about forced ex-pats who've revisited. I think Cuba
has been snubbed by this country's govt long enough. The only larger crime
than what this country (US) did to Cuba is what Castro did to it. Still, I
can't imagine anthing worth traveling there for, 'cept maybe a good cigar.
Decaying infrastructer, agrarian communes, old fifties cars. Big whoop.
The people that didn't escape are in denial and the one's that did hate
everything about it.

> My friends say Cuba is worth visiting *now*.

Considering the above, what do think you are going to see? Are you one of
those Che Guevara fans and want to see monuments to the glory of La
Revolucion?

nb

wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>
>>People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>>from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>>have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>
> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
> chomping at the bit.

I don't want to visit Cuba. I'm not an expat Cuban.


--
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notbob wrote:

> On 2008-06-24, sf <> wrote:
>
>> there via a work related visa. I want to go there before it becomes
>> "modernized".
>
> Why?
>
> You got a thing for run-down decrepit falling-in-to-ruin everything?

There's all of subsaharan Africa for that, and no travel restrictions.


--
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:38:12 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>
>> My friends say Cuba is worth visiting *now*.
>
>Considering the above, what do think you are going to see?

I'll see old world architecture, pretty beaches and beautiful
countryside.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/10010056.html
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ng...10701.4.5.html
http://tommyimages.com/Stock_Photos/...hitecture.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tr1stan...7600402429342/



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:02:50 -0700, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>>>from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>>>have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>>
>> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
>> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
>> chomping at the bit.
>
>I don't want to visit Cuba. I'm not an expat Cuban.

To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
Mediterranean, for instance.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Blinky the Shark said...

> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of
>>>Cubans from there or from meeting them in countries where they study,
>>>work, etc, have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>>
>> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
>> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
>> chomping at the bit.
>
> I don't want to visit Cuba. I'm not an expat Cuban.


I've had Cuban cigars in Australia and Holland. As close as I want to come
to Cuba.

Who wants a lifetime of '57 Chevys? On a cheap date in the back seat, sure!

Andy

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:25:34 -0700, sf <.> wrote:


>To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
>Mediterranean, for instance.

I am. I just finished reading Frances Mayes two books, Under the
Tuscan Sun, and Bella Tuscany, and it made me so much want to go visit
there. Among other things, the food descriptions are marvelous, but
also the description of the way of life... And living in the midst of
all the glories of Italian art.

Christine

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>"Blinky the Shark" > ha scritto nel messaggio >> about
>the Bay of Pigs. You don't make a big blunder like that and the
>>> county you lost to just ignores the base you've established on its
>>> homeland.
>>
>> It may have been unprecedented. It also happened.
>
>I think it useful to recall that in the US one hears only what is published
>in US media about Cuba and that the PR crowd on that are Cubans who came for
>many different reasons. While life has been hard in Cuba especially after
>the breakop of the Soviets, it isn't any worse or perhaps is better than
>life for most was under Trujillo.

um, that would be batista. trujillo ran the dominican republic.

>People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>

i know a few people who had a ball in havana when it was run by the
mob.

your pal,
blake

wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:02:50 -0700, Blinky the Shark
> > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>>>>from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>>>>have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>>>
>>> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
>>> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
>>> chomping at the bit.
>>
>>I don't want to visit Cuba. I'm not an expat Cuban.
>
> To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
> Mediterranean, for instance.

I'd visit anywhere in Europe before I'd visit Cuba. Even France, for
God's sake.


--
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Killing all posts from Google Groups
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Christine Dabney wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:25:34 -0700, sf <.> wrote:
>
>
>>To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
>>Mediterranean, for instance.
>
> I am. I just finished reading Frances Mayes two books, Under the
> Tuscan Sun, and Bella Tuscany, and it made me so much want to go visit
> there. Among other things, the food descriptions are marvelous, but
> also the description of the way of life... And living in the midst of
> all the glories of Italian art.

I've eaten Tuscan melons.

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Found: a free GG-blocking news *feed* --> http://usenet4all.se

blake murphy wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Blinky the Shark" > ha scritto nel messaggio >> about
>>the Bay of Pigs. You don't make a big blunder like that and the
>>>> county you lost to just ignores the base you've established on its
>>>> homeland.
>>>
>>> It may have been unprecedented. It also happened.
>>
>>I think it useful to recall that in the US one hears only what is published
>>in US media about Cuba and that the PR crowd on that are Cubans who came for
>>many different reasons. While life has been hard in Cuba especially after
>>the breakop of the Soviets, it isn't any worse or perhaps is better than
>>life for most was under Trujillo.
>
> um, that would be batista. trujillo ran the dominican republic.

Thanks for saving me the lookup. I new "Trujillo" wasn't right.

And I'm not even trying to come off as an expert on Cuba...


--
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sf wrote:.


> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>
> >People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of
Cubans
> >from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
> >have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>
> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida.


A lot of them don't want to go back because they don't want to have their
hearts broken...

And it's not just the moneyed class that fled that feels that way, it's some
of the working class folks, too. The younger folks who have no memory of
fleeing or who were born here might have different feelings as they have no
memory of the place.


The rest of us are
> chomping at the bit. I know people who have been there, but they got
> there via a work related visa. I want to go there before it becomes
> "modernized".


A typical patronising leftist Yanqui attitude - you have your passport and
your hard currency dollars and your nice air - conditioned hotel and
filtered water and can leave. The Cubans living there would *love* to see
the place "modernized", e.g. decent electricity, water, sewage, transport,
even - dare I say it? - US fast food...!!!

What you might consider undeveloped "charm" is actually squalor for those
that have to live in it...

--
Best
Greg

Blinky the Shark wrote:

> notbob wrote:
>
> > On 2008-06-24, sf <> wrote:
> >
> >> there via a work related visa. I want to go there before it becomes
> >> "modernized".
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > You got a thing for run-down decrepit falling-in-to-ruin everything?
>
> There's all of subsaharan Africa for that, and no travel restrictions.
>

Or the "wrong side of the tracks" section of most any US city of size...

[Or as a black guy I know once described Jamaica: "It's like the south side
of Chicago but with palm trees and waterfalls and stronger and cheaper
pot...".]

Actually, I'd like to see Cuba as it is now, I always had a hankering for
visiting somewhat "forbidden"/off - the - beaten - path places. I spent
some time in East Germany in the 70's, and believe me, that was *really* off
the radar then. I liked the place tremendously, it was perfectly legal to
go as long as you didn't mind commie bureaucracy and those nosy Stasi guys
snarking about...


--
Best
Greg

Christine Dabney wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:25:34 -0700, sf <.> wrote:
>
>
> >To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
> >Mediterranean, for instance.
>
> I am. I just finished reading Frances Mayes two books, Under the
> Tuscan Sun, and Bella Tuscany, and it made me so much want to go visit
> there. Among other things, the food descriptions are marvelous, but
> also the description of the way of life... And living in the midst of
> all the glories of Italian art.


But there's all those ex - pat BRITS living there now, Christine...with
their pre - fab pubs and newsagents selling _The Sun_ and cans of Heinz
baked beans in the shops...

;-)


--
Best
Greg

blake murphy wrote:

>
> i know a few people who had a ball in havana when it was run by the
> mob.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>
Havana was such a hot party town in the thirties,forties and fifties
wasn't it? I understand it had great nightclubs and music, and very
welcoming to American dollars back then. I know people who have gone to
international conferences there but I can't recall them praising the much?
We used to go to Prague while the communists were still there, and
actually went to see some soviet military bases in East Germany, but the
soldiers couldn't speak to us. I guess they didn't want to risk our
American influences, lol.

Goomba wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>
> >
> > i know a few people who had a ball in havana when it was run by the
> > mob.
> >
> > your pal,
> > blake
> >
> Havana was such a hot party town in the thirties,forties and fifties
> wasn't it? I understand it had great nightclubs and music, and very
> welcoming to American dollars back then. I know people who have gone to
> international conferences there but I can't recall them praising the much?


Nowadays the conferences would be held in hotels and facilities that are
pretty much segregated from ordinary Cubans, the tourist infrastucture
(inclusive beach resorts...) that has been built in the last 20 years was
designed to shield tourists - and their money - from everyday Cuban life...

Havana was a Fleshpot Of The World pre - Castro, some of my older friends
have told some wild stories. They'd drive to Key West and take their car to
Havana in the ferries that used to ply that route. Gambling, sex, drugs,
any and everything was wide - open. Cubana Airlines in the 50's would run
overnight flights from Miami to the Havana casinos, there was gambling and a
cabaret show even aboard the airliner.

Fun reading:

A 1950 article (there are links on this page to many great articles
describing the vices of pre - 1959 Cuba...):

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_201-225/doc0208.html

[Excerpt]

Sin - With A Rhumba Beat!"

"Havana is a town where panderers join the tourist guides to greet you at
the airport. Where they keep cocaine handy in the Frigidaire for
over-the-counter sales. Where embarrassed office-holders sometimes ride out
a political storm in the haven of a bordello.


The Mob and Cuban Casinos:

http://www.casinochips.net/cubamain2.htm

Tourism in the pre - Castro era:

http://cuban-exile.com/menu1/%21entertain.html


> We used to go to Prague while the communists were still there, and
> actually went to see some soviet military bases in East Germany, but the
> soldiers couldn't speak to us. I guess they didn't want to risk our
> American influences, lol.


They would have been forbidden to speak to the locals, not just Americans...

:-)

Back in the USSR days any Soviets stationed or working abroad for any reason
generally had a tight rein on them. They were segregated into compounds
(The Soviet Embassy compound in DC is an example, it's virtually a self -
contained "town"), pretty much forbidden to have relationships with locals,
etc. This went for diplomatic personnel all the way down to Red Army
grunts...they were paranoid about defections. I've read that even Aerofllot
stewardesses that flew routes to the West were chosen for their plainness,
so they wouldn't be tempted by Westerners wanting dates, and eventually
marriage to a Westerner.

When I viisted East Germany in the late 70's we'd come upon Warsaw Pact
military units doing maneuvres. When I tried to surreptitiously snap some
pics, my East German friends said "Nein!". Didn't want to risk being
stopped for filming (that was forbidden in any case), especially with a
Westerner in tow...

All that stuff is ancient history now, and I'm sure glad that it is...


--
Best
Greg

"Christine Dabney" schrieb :
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:25:34 -0700, sf <.> wrote:
>
>
>>To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
>>Mediterranean, for instance.
>
> I am. I just finished reading Frances Mayes two books, Under the
> Tuscan Sun, and Bella Tuscany, and it made me so much want to go visit
> there. Among other things, the food descriptions are marvelous, but
> also the description of the way of life... And living in the midst of
> all the glories of Italian art.
>
The corruption, bribery and rip-offs are described by Mayes ?
The daily insanity and general incompetence ?
If not, try Donna Leon. She gives a rather good view of life in Italy.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Blinky the Shark wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:02:50 -0700, Blinky the Shark
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>>>> >from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>>>>> have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>>>> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
>>>> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
>>>> chomping at the bit.
>>> I don't want to visit Cuba. I'm not an expat Cuban.
>> To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
>> Mediterranean, for instance.
>
> I'd visit anywhere in Europe before I'd visit Cuba. Even France, for
> God's sake.

The diving in Cuba would be worth the visit.

My mother hopes to visit Cuba again. It is one of her favorite places.
I don't have the heart to tell her, things have changed over the years.
She probably would not recognize Cuba as she remembered it.

Becca

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> sf wrote:.
>> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
>> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida.
>
>
> A lot of them don't want to go back because they don't want to have their
> hearts broken...
>
> And it's not just the moneyed class that fled that feels that way, it's some
> of the working class folks, too. The younger folks who have no memory of
> fleeing or who were born here might have different feelings as they have no
> memory of the place.
>
>

DOn't you think the younger generation of expats has been brainwashed
against Cuba as much as the current Cubans have been brainwashed
against the U.S?

We have a number of European friends who have vacationed there who
absolutely loved it and say we will to once the travel ban is lifted.
One family alternates spending Christmas in Thailand and Cuba and loves
both. Of course Colorado is their choice for skiing. The terrain might
not be as wonderful as Switzerland and Austria, but the snow is more
dependable, and currently the prices are a small percentage of what
they'd spend in Europe.

Everyone has his or her preferences and prejudices.

gloria p

Becca wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:02:50 -0700, Blinky the Shark
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>>>>> >from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>>>>>> have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>>>>> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
>>>>> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
>>>>> chomping at the bit.
>>>> I don't want to visit Cuba. I'm not an expat Cuban.
>>> To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
>>> Mediterranean, for instance.
>>
>> I'd visit anywhere in Europe before I'd visit Cuba. Even France, for
>> God's sake.
>
> The diving in Cuba would be worth the visit.

There's a whole Caribbean to dive in.

I sometimes have lunch at a Cuban restaurant. I just bought some of their
mojo criollo sauce, having tried it on some pork.

Lime juice, orange juice, water, garlic, salt, spices, citric acid,
xanthan gum.

I just noticed that the only company named on the label is the restaurant
(Veradero Cuban Cafe & Bakery). Guess it's their own product. Didn't
realize that.

"A long time ago a young man in Cuba, named Jacinto Caraballo, created
the perfect Mojo sauce. The spices and flavorings he used in his
original recipe soon became the talk of the town, and he bagan catering
for the Carnavales in Cuba. After immigrating to the U.S., Jacinto
opened a Cuban restaurant and introduced his special sauce to America.
You too can now enjoy this all natural Caraballo family Mojo sauce."

In short, he got his mojo workin'.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project --> http://improve-usenet.org
Found: a free GG-blocking news *feed* --> http://usenet4all.se

Gloria P wrote:

> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > sf wrote:.
> >> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
> >> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida.
> >
> >
> > A lot of them don't want to go back because they don't want to have
their
> > hearts broken...
> >
> > And it's not just the moneyed class that fled that feels that way, it's
some
> > of the working class folks, too. The younger folks who have no memory
of
> > fleeing or who were born here might have different feelings as they have
no
> > memory of the place.
> >
> >
>
> DOn't you think the younger generation of expats has been brainwashed
> against Cuba as much as the current Cubans have been brainwashed
> against the U.S?


If you can believe polls, a good number of younger Cubans want to get over
the anti - Castro obsessions that their elders bear. Some have the attitude
of "Come on, it's ___50 years___ already..."...

Most Cubans I've encountered were born there or their families escaped, they
are still virulently anti - Castro and so will not go there while the
present regime is in power. That hatred is *really* ingrained, woe to
anyone who comes up against it! I once casually mentioned to a Cuban gal I
know that I'd like to visit Cuba, even under the present regime - WHOA! She
*really* got into my face, lectured me about how they had lost everything
and had to flee...they had a business in Cuba and had a good life, maids and
a big house and air - conditioned Buicks and weekends at the country club.

:-)


> We have a number of European friends who have vacationed there who
> absolutely loved it and say we will to once the travel ban is lifted.
> One family alternates spending Christmas in Thailand and Cuba and loves
> both. Of course Colorado is their choice for skiing. The terrain might
> not be as wonderful as Switzerland and Austria, but the snow is more
> dependable, and currently the prices are a small percentage of what
> they'd spend in Europe.
>
> Everyone has his or her preferences and prejudices.


Cuba is a beautiful place with lots to offer tourists. It's poor, but not
so grindingly poor as many other tropical destinations are. One thing the
revolution has done is given the population basic education, housing, and
medical care. This was done for poorer folk at the cost of the wealthier
classes leaving...Havana looks tumbledown because money was diverted to
social needs elsewhere. Things are rationed, but at least everyone gets a
very bare minimum to live on...

US tour companies are lined up to do business with Cuba as soon as the
embargo has lifted, in fact a number of US airlines have existing route
rights to Cuba that were - interestingly - negotiated as part of a bi -
lateral treaty in 1962. Cuba has invited US tour agents and such down to
"scout the territory", so to speak. There is of course the issue of
companies like Hilton that had their properties seized, the most prominent
of which is the modern high - rise Havana Libre, which in 1958 opened as the
brand - new Havana Hilton. These issues will be "worked out", no doubt...

Plenty of modern tourism infrastructure exists, it's been built with the
help of Canadian and European firms in the 80's - 90's...but once USAin's
hit en masse, they'll need lots more.

Once Cuba is opened for Americans, listen for that giant sucking sound - it
will be the considerable number of US tourists deserting traditional
Caribbean venues for Cuba. Even Florida has predicted that it's tourism
will drop as Americans over - fly Florida to visit Cuba...

Cuba has the potential to be a great place, I only wish them well. One
thing we forget is that the Cubans do NOT want the Americans to come in and
"take over", they've had enough experience with the US - and Spain and the
USSR - to know that they want to be respected and allowed to develop on
their own terms...

--
Best
Greg

On 2008-06-24, sf <> wrote:

> I'll see old world architecture, pretty beaches......

I guess if your an architecture freak, but the beaches? You live right on
one of the most beautiful coasts on the planet! Boy, how I miss driving
over to Half Moon Bay and heading South on Hwy 1. A bottle of wine, some
cheese and bread, stop at Pigeon Point. Is the Pacific Ocean still there!?


nb

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:19:37 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>On 2008-06-24, sf <> wrote:
>
>> I'll see old world architecture, pretty beaches......
>
>I guess if your an architecture freak, but the beaches? You live right on
>one of the most beautiful coasts on the planet! Boy, how I miss driving
>over to Half Moon Bay and heading South on Hwy 1. A bottle of wine, some
>cheese and bread, stop at Pigeon Point. Is the Pacific Ocean still there!?
>
>
Yeah, the coastline is here.... but we have a bitter cold wind even
during the summer. Beaches are more dirt than sand, the water is
cold, there's a mankiller undertow and breezes come from the North.
Brrrrr.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:01:03 -0700, Blinky the Shark
> wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:02:50 -0700, Blinky the Shark
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:24:14 +0200, "Giusi" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>People from other countries who come and go freely and know lots of Cubans
>>>>>from there or from meeting them in countries where they study, work, etc,
>>>>>have a very different view of Cuba to that of USians.
>>>>
>>>> Believe it or not, Giusi, the only people who still don't want to
>>>> visit Cuba are the expat patrons in Florida. The rest of us are
>>>> chomping at the bit.
>>>
>>>I don't want to visit Cuba. I'm not an expat Cuban.
>>
>> To each his own. I'm not gaga over visiting Italy, or anywhere
>> Mediterranean, for instance.
>
>I'd visit anywhere in Europe before I'd visit Cuba. Even France, for
>God's sake.

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

your pal,
randy