On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:33:11 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>mequeenbe.nospam wrote:
>> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>
>>> "Secrets of Frugal Foodies."
>>>
>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2176346.story
>
>> geez, i've always shopped this way, 'cuz i've not had a lot of money.
>> rotflmao.
>
>Just curious, would you or do you go around the store looking
>for items expiring that day so you can ask a clerk for half off?
>
>nancy

at least where i shop, with meat the store does it themselves.
usually not fifty percent, but a dollar or two depending on the
original price. i think this is typical, and i do look for those.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:36:13 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>"Nancy Young" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>news
>> mequeenbe.nospam wrote:
>>> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>>
>>>> "Secrets of Frugal Foodies."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2176346.story
>>
>>> geez, i've always shopped this way, 'cuz i've not had a lot of money.
>>> rotflmao.
>>
>> Just curious, would you or do you go around the store looking
>> for items expiring that day so you can ask a clerk for half off?
>>
>> nancy
>
>No, I never have, but here the clerk would blow me a raspberry anyway. I
>cannot imagine menu planning that revolved around finding out of date foods
>to buy for half price.
>

it's not so much menu planning as 'hey, i could make whatsis with that
tonight.' the 'sell-by' dates are usually well before going off.

your pal,
blake

Christine Dabney wrote:

> On 23 Jun 2008 17:19:37 GMT, "Dan Goodman" > wrote:
>
>
> >> What was the sale price?
> >> Egg prices have dropped some since $2.23 a dozen in March.
> >
> > Aldi: $1.35 a dozen. Rainbow special: $0.98 a dozen.
>
> Oh, I forgot that some of the markets have had them on sale for
> $1.25/dozen here.
>
> Christine

Where is "here?"

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

Dan Goodman wrote:
>
> Christine Dabney wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:44:15 -0700 (PDT), "mequeenbe.nospam"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > when i moved out here to azusa, i discovered that there were at
> > > least 5 hispanic type markets within 2 miles. when the flyers
> > > arrive, either in the mail, or as an insert in the elay times, i
> > > pick out the best prices.
> > >
> > > harriet & critters
> >
> > I do that with all the sales ads. Most of them have their ads online,
> > and I can usually peruse them the night before the they become
> > effective. I would think you could do that with some of the sales
> > circulars of the Hispanic markets too. I know some of them have their
> > ads online. Gigante was one, I think..and I think it is in that
> > area, if I am not mistaken. I can't remember the names of the other
> > markets.
>
> I've found that the real bargains aren't in the flyers. For example,
> my local Cub (South Minneapolis, near Lake & Hiawatha) has an area of
> shelves for $1.00 items. The green tea I found there (100 teabags)
> probably isn't the highest quality, of course.
>
> In the meat department: three pounds of bacon ends and pieces for
> $4.99. I prefer ends and pieces to better bacon. But since I use
> bacon in small amounts, I'm not sure if it would really be a bargain
> for me.
>
> --
> Dan Goodman
>

Got a freezer? Wrap the bacon well and airtight. It will keep in the
freezer for about 6 months. We do that with regular bacon when it's on
sale.

Christine Dabney wrote:
>
> On 23 Jun 2008 17:19:37 GMT, "Dan Goodman" > wrote:
>
> >> What was the sale price?
> >> Egg prices have dropped some since $2.23 a dozen in March.
> >
> >Aldi: $1.35 a dozen. Rainbow special: $0.98 a dozen.
>
> Oh, I forgot that some of the markets have had them on sale for
> $1.25/dozen here.
>
> Christine

Albertson's has them for 1.00 a dozen Chris! Just got some today.

Christine Dabney wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:56:08 -0500, The Cook >
> wrote:
>
> >They also had store brand sugar on sale for a 4 lb bag of pure cane
> >sugar. I pick up 4 bags and will go back again during the week.
>
> I have been doing that with butter and flour lately, and for milk
> yesterday.
>
> Albertsons in this area has been having these sales on all three of
> those items. Flour has been $1.89/5lbs, so I got several bags. It
> is their store brand, and they have unbleached as well as bread flour.
> With the cost of flour skyrocketing, I felt it was too good a deal to
> pass up.

Christine, you might also try Wallymart if you don't mind shopping
there. We got some 10 lb bags of 'Hungarian' flour for something under
4.00, which has been the usual price.


>
> Same with butter. For a few weeks now, they have had it at
> $1.67/pound. I stocked up my freezer.
>
> And this week, they have milk at $1/half gallon. I got a few cartons,
> to make some paneer, and to just have on hand. Milk freezes well,
> correct?
>
> Christine

It does. You can also add a pinch of baking soda to milk to help it stay
fresher for longer after thawing. Doesn't seem to affect most recipes.

Christine Dabney > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:53:45 -0600, Arri London
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Christine, you might also try Wallymart if you don't mind
>>shopping there. We got some 10 lb bags of 'Hungarian' flour
>>for something under 4.00, which has been the usual price.
>
> What is Hungarian flour?

Brand name.

> Hmm.not sure it would be cheaper to get that... I am
> calculating that the two 5 pound bags of Albertson's flour
> that I got, will come to about $3.78.
>
> I try not to shop at Wallyworld unless it is something I
> absolutely cannot find somewhere else, or a much, much better
> price.
>
> Christine
>

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:50:13 -0600, Arri London >
wrote:


>Albertson's has them for 1.00 a dozen Chris! Just got some today.


I don't need any right now...I have more than enough right now. I
don't know how to preserve those, unfortunately....

Christine

On 23 Jun 2008 21:33:23 GMT, "Dan Goodman" > wrote:

>Christine Dabney wrote:

>> Oh, I forgot that some of the markets have had them on sale for
>> $1.25/dozen here.
>>
>> Christine
>
>Where is "here?"

Albuquerque, NM.

Christine

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:53:45 -0600, Arri London >
wrote:


>
>Christine, you might also try Wallymart if you don't mind shopping
>there. We got some 10 lb bags of 'Hungarian' flour for something under
>4.00, which has been the usual price.

What is Hungarian flour?

Hmm.not sure it would be cheaper to get that... I am calculating that
the two 5 pound bags of Albertson's flour that I got, will come to
about $3.78.

I try not to shop at Wallyworld unless it is something I absolutely
cannot find somewhere else, or a much, much better price.

Christine

Arri London wrote:

>
>
> Dan Goodman wrote:
> >
> > Christine Dabney wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:44:15 -0700 (PDT), "mequeenbe.nospam"
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > when i moved out here to azusa, i discovered that there were at
> > > > least 5 hispanic type markets within 2 miles. when the flyers
> > > > arrive, either in the mail, or as an insert in the elay times, i
> > > > pick out the best prices.
> > > >
> > > > harriet & critters
> > >
> > > I do that with all the sales ads. Most of them have their ads
> > > online, and I can usually peruse them the night before the they
> > > become effective. I would think you could do that with some of
> > > the sales circulars of the Hispanic markets too. I know some of
> > > them have their ads online. Gigante was one, I think..and I
> > > think it is in that area, if I am not mistaken. I can't remember
> > > the names of the other markets.
> >
> > I've found that the real bargains aren't in the flyers. For
> > example, my local Cub (South Minneapolis, near Lake & Hiawatha) has
> > an area of shelves for $1.00 items. The green tea I found there
> > (100 teabags) probably isn't the highest quality, of course.
> >
> > In the meat department: three pounds of bacon ends and pieces for
> > $4.99. I prefer ends and pieces to better bacon. But since I use
> > bacon in small amounts, I'm not sure if it would really be a bargain
> > for me.
> >
> Got a freezer? Wrap the bacon well and airtight. It will keep in the
> freezer for about 6 months. We do that with regular bacon when it's on
> sale.

I don't. Do you know how long it will last in the refrigerator's
freezer compartment?

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

"blake murphy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
<decobabeone@>>"

>>No, I never have, but here the clerk would blow me a raspberry anyway. I
>>cannot imagine menu planning that revolved around finding out of date
>>foods
>>to buy for half price.
>>
>
> it's not so much menu planning as 'hey, i could make whatsis with that
> tonight.' the 'sell-by' dates are usually well before going off.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I see that. I don't know how they handle it here, but there is never any
used meat sale. Sales there are, usually publicized well ahead. In almost
8 years I have never bought any meat the least bit tired. OTH, sometimes
the shelves are spare or empty, too, and there is no apology for it. Maybe
that's how they do it? Putting out just what they know they can sell?

They've recently added a service meat counter and a glass wall into the work
area. When you ask for something, you can see them bring the quarter out of
the cooler and start cutting. The nice thing is the meat doesnìt cost more
although what they are showing may be more luxurious cuts or seasoned and
tied, etc. Butcher shops are still a threat here and the SMs try to give
you the same image. We have dozens of butchers in my city.

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:
> I see that. I don't know how they handle it here, but there is never any
> used meat sale. Sales there are, usually publicized well ahead. In almost
> 8 years I have never bought any meat the least bit tired. OTH, sometimes
> the shelves are spare or empty, too, and there is no apology for it. Maybe
> that's how they do it? Putting out just what they know they can sell?

My local supermarket meat department manager, John The Meat Guy, told me
how unpopular he was at a former store. When he became manager there he
found he was selling too much meat from the 'used meat' bin. That store
had a large customer base of retired folks on fixed incomes who, it
seemed, *waited* until meat would reach its 'sell by' date and was
marked down before purchasing. He solved the problem by not ordering as
much as the previous manager had done. No more used meat. I don't
think Cub does used meat anymore, in part because they also found people
were switching the markdown tags on the packages. At least that's what
they told me. I'll have to ask him what he does with his excess stuff
now. It would be a damned shame if it went into the garbage.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Huffy and Bubbles Do France: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:38:38 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>"blake murphy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
><decobabeone@>>"
>
>>>No, I never have, but here the clerk would blow me a raspberry anyway. I
>>>cannot imagine menu planning that revolved around finding out of date
>>>foods
>>>to buy for half price.
>>>
>>
>> it's not so much menu planning as 'hey, i could make whatsis with that
>> tonight.' the 'sell-by' dates are usually well before going off.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>I see that. I don't know how they handle it here, but there is never any
>used meat sale. Sales there are, usually publicized well ahead. In almost
>8 years I have never bought any meat the least bit tired. OTH, sometimes
>the shelves are spare or empty, too, and there is no apology for it. Maybe
>that's how they do it? Putting out just what they know they can sell?
>
>They've recently added a service meat counter and a glass wall into the work
>area. When you ask for something, you can see them bring the quarter out of
>the cooler and start cutting. The nice thing is the meat doesnìt cost more
>although what they are showing may be more luxurious cuts or seasoned and
>tied, etc. Butcher shops are still a threat here and the SMs try to give
>you the same image. We have dozens of butchers in my city.
>

probably a worthy trade-off. honest-to-god butcher shops are becoming
pretty rare in the u.s.

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:15 GMT, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:38:38 +0200, "Giusi" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>They've recently added a service meat counter and a glass wall into the work
>>area. When you ask for something, you can see them bring the quarter out of
>>the cooler and start cutting. The nice thing is the meat doesnìt cost more
>>although what they are showing may be more luxurious cuts or seasoned and
>>tied, etc. Butcher shops are still a threat here and the SMs try to give
>>you the same image. We have dozens of butchers in my city.
>>
>
>probably a worthy trade-off. honest-to-god butcher shops are becoming
>pretty rare in the u.s.
>

Once they run the real butchers out of business, they'll be free to
switch to American style no service counters.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"sf" <.> ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:15
>
> Once they run the real butchers out of business, they'll be free to
> switch to American style no service counters.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but the butchers sell local meat grown by
people we know, so we tend to buy it when we cook something special, which
for most people here is at least once a week. Old folks just use butchers
and don't have any truck with supermarkets.

I buy only sale meat at the sm. Today a bunch of a steak called fracosta
that comes from the neck, but is tender and delicious. On salt for ?10 per
kilo which is cheap here.

Dan Goodman wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dan Goodman wrote:

<snip>

> > > In the meat department: three pounds of bacon ends and pieces for
> > > $4.99. I prefer ends and pieces to better bacon. But since I use
> > > bacon in small amounts, I'm not sure if it would really be a bargain
> > > for me.
> > >
> > Got a freezer? Wrap the bacon well and airtight. It will keep in the
> > freezer for about 6 months. We do that with regular bacon when it's on
> > sale.
>
> I don't. Do you know how long it will last in the refrigerator's
> freezer compartment?
>
>


If the freezer compartment truly keeps at 0 C, should keep for a couple
of months. But they often don't keep such good temp control as a
full-out freezer.

Christine Dabney wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:50:13 -0600, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >Albertson's has them for 1.00 a dozen Chris! Just got some today.
>
> I don't need any right now...I have more than enough right now. I
> don't know how to preserve those, unfortunately....
>
> Christine

Pickled eggs! Or you could salt them Chinese-style. The yolks and whites
can be separated and frozen but need to have some salt or sugar added to
them to maintain the quality.

Or you can buy a commercial spray-dryer...

Christine Dabney wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:53:45 -0600, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Christine, you might also try Wallymart if you don't mind shopping
> >there. We got some 10 lb bags of 'Hungarian' flour for something under
> >4.00, which has been the usual price.
>
> What is Hungarian flour?

It's a milling process that combines stone and roller grinding to
produce very fine-grain flour.
>
> Hmm.not sure it would be cheaper to get that... I am calculating that
> the two 5 pound bags of Albertson's flour that I got, will come to
> about $3.78.

Just meant that that is the usual price; no need to wait for a sale. We
go through a lot of flour!
>
> I try not to shop at Wallyworld unless it is something I absolutely
> cannot find somewhere else, or a much, much better price.
>
> Christine

We don't either but I like the flour. They used to sell it in 25 lb bags
but no longer.

sandi wrote:
>
> Christine Dabney > wrote in
> :
>
> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:53:45 -0600, Arri London
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Christine, you might also try Wallymart if you don't mind
> >>shopping there. We got some 10 lb bags of 'Hungarian' flour
> >>for something under 4.00, which has been the usual price.
> >
> > What is Hungarian flour?
>
> Brand name.

Nope...a milling process originating in Hungary in the 19th C.

Arri London > wrote in
:

>
>
> sandi wrote:
>>
>> Christine Dabney > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:53:45 -0600, Arri London
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Christine, you might also try Wallymart if you don't mind
>> >>shopping there. We got some 10 lb bags of 'Hungarian' flour
>> >>for something under 4.00, which has been the usual price.
>> >
>> > What is Hungarian flour?
>>
>> Brand name.
>
> Nope...a milling process originating in Hungary in the 19th C.

The one I know is a brand name. :-)

http://talesfromsprings.blogspot.com...high-altitude-
hungarian-flour.html

<http://talesfromsprings.blogspot.com...high-altitude-
hungarian-flour.html>

or http://preview.tinyurl.com/5h4ez2

Arri London wrote:

>
>
> Dan Goodman wrote:
> >
> > Arri London wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan Goodman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > > In the meat department: three pounds of bacon ends and pieces
> > > > for $4.99. I prefer ends and pieces to better bacon. But
> > > > since I use bacon in small amounts, I'm not sure if it would
> > > > really be a bargain for me.
> > > >
> > > Got a freezer? Wrap the bacon well and airtight. It will keep in
> > > the freezer for about 6 months. We do that with regular bacon
> > > when it's on sale.
> >
> > I don't. Do you know how long it will last in the refrigerator's
> > freezer compartment?
> >
> >
>
>
> If the freezer compartment truly keeps at 0 C, should keep for a
> couple of months. But they often don't keep such good temp control as
> a full-out freezer.

Thanks!

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

"Arri London" wrote
> Dan Goodman wrote:

>> > Got a freezer? Wrap the bacon well and airtight. It will keep in the
>> > freezer for about 6 months.

>> I don't. Do you know how long it will last in the refrigerator's
>> freezer compartment?

> If the freezer compartment truly keeps at 0 C, should keep for a couple
> of months. But they often don't keep such good temp control as a
> full-out freezer.

Let me flesh that out a bit for Dan since he doesnt normally do it ;-)

Dan, I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. I won't bore you with
the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big trips is
meats. I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one, partly due to
space needs but partly for same reason as above. The one over (or under)
the fridge doesnt keep as cool.

Keeping in the fridge unit freezer, most things will be ok up to 2 months
but you'll find 4 weeks is better. If you have a quality extra freezer set
properly to low temps (15F or so) it works better. 0 C is too warm <grin>.
You'd want more like 0 F but that's a bit too far to the cold side.

Some things freeze better for longer than others. Chicken I find does well
longer, especially if skin on.

Now the really important part is proper wrapping. We took 45 mins to rewrap
all that meat after cutting to 3 people portions. We used various ziplock
bags and double bagged everything. Get as much air out as you can. I've
heard the vacumn seal units are best but we just use the plastic ziplocks in
various sizes. Samwich ones for example work for 3 chicken thighs. We
reuse the outerlayer bag for several cycles then it becomes the inner layer.

Plastic grocery bags often become a 3rd layer tied closed with yarn (I used
to do lots of yarn crafts so have quite a bit of this). Grin, I even color
code it as it's faster than writing on the bag with a permanent marker and
later trying to keep it all straight when reusing the outer layer bags. 'No
honey, dont put the chicken in that one, it says pork' ;-) Frozen, it's
kinda hard to tell beef from pork with some cuts so this just makes it easy.

If it matters, yarn colors are like this: green is pork, pink is chicken,
red or brown is beef, white is fish/seafood. Purple and other colors not
mentioned are for 'oddiments' not listed such as the rare lamb.

I don't bother with anything obvious (unless triple wrapped in a bag from
the store I can't see through). So if it looks like ground beef, it is
unless a string wrapper says it's a pork or poultry grind.

sandi wrote:
>
> Arri London > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> >
> > sandi wrote:
> >>
> >> Christine Dabney > wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:53:45 -0600, Arri London
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>Christine, you might also try Wallymart if you don't mind
> >> >>shopping there. We got some 10 lb bags of 'Hungarian' flour
> >> >>for something under 4.00, which has been the usual price.
> >> >
> >> > What is Hungarian flour?
> >>
> >> Brand name.
> >
> > Nope...a milling process originating in Hungary in the 19th C.
>
> The one I know is a brand name. :-)
>
> http://talesfromsprings.blogspot.com...high-altitude-
> hungarian-flour.html
>
> <http://talesfromsprings.blogspot.com...high-altitude-
> hungarian-flour.html>
>
> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/5h4ez2

The 'High Altitude' bit is the brand name more or less; that's the one I
like to use. Other flours (at least in parts of Europe) are referred to
as 'Hungarian' which are not the 'High Altitude' brand. It's about the
milling.

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:57:04 -0400, "cshenk" > fired
up random neurons and synapses to opine:

>I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. I won't bore you with
>the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big trips is
>meats. I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one, partly due to
>space needs but partly for same reason as above. The one over (or under)
>the fridge doesnt keep as cool.

<snip>

This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.

Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one *prepare* for? I
mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if you
live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc., but
you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really *prepare*
for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and I can't
think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just askin'

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
--
"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:57:04 -0400, "cshenk" > fired
> up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>
> > I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. I won't bore you
> > with the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big
> > trips is meats. I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one,
> > partly due to space needs but partly for same reason as above. The
> > one over (or under) the fridge doesnt keep as cool.
>
> <snip>
>
> This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
> school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
> emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
> hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
> proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.
>
> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one prepare for? I
> mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if you
> live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc., but
> you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
> marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really prepare
> for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and I can't
> think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just askin'

One used to be able to find answers at misc.survivalism, before it was
completely taken over by political stuff.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
mirror 1: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
mirror 2: http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>
> This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
> school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
> emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
> hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
> proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.
>
> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one *prepare* for?

Within the next few years, we'll see rolling blackouts
during the hottest days of summer and coldest days in
winter, due to lack of spending on the electrical
generation and transmission infrastructure, all over
North America. See page 11 (12th page of the document)
for a map which shows when these blackouts can be expected
to begin various regions:

ftp://www.nerc.com/pub/sys/all_updl/...s/LTRA2007.pdf

Generating capacity will be the main resource which
will run out, but transmission capacity will be the
limiting factor in the mid-Atlantic states and
southern California, even if generating capacity
were available, due to congestion of transmission
line corridors. In some cases, the corridors are
completely full, so new transmission capacity can't
be added, if even the money were available to pay
for it.

During the regulated era, utilities were vertically
integrated and had great incentive to make the
appropriate investments throughout the system to
ensure reliability. Since partial deregulation,
different companies own the generators and the wires.
They get the highest prices during peak demand,
so peaks are now good for the stockholders.
Previously, peaks were bad because they'd require
importing electricity or using natural gas
(the most expensive fuel), but they'd have to sell
to many customers (such as residential customers)
at a flat rate.

Since deregulation, the incentives to invest have
been turned upside-down. Today, maximizing return
on investment means running your old equipment
as long as possible and minimizing investment
in new equipment. The electrical grid is being
driven off a cliff, and the vast majority of the
public is blissfully unaware of the impending doom.

On Jun 27, 11:46*am, Terry Pulliam Burd >
wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:57:04 -0400, "cshenk" > fired
> up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>
> >I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. *I won't bore you with
> >the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big trips is
> >meats. *I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one, partly due to
> >space needs but partly for same reason as above. *The one over (or under)
> >the fridge doesnt keep as cool.
>
> <snip>
>
> This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
> school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
> emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
> hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
> proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.
>
> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one *prepare* for? I
> mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if you
> live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc., but
> you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
> marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really *prepare*
> for an earthquake. *Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and I can't
> think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just askin'

Seasonal preparation for storms, floods etc would be such things as
having a supply of bottled water and non-perishable food, making sure
you have enough gas or other fuel for the portable stove or bbq (so
that you are not relying on electricity that may be out) and putting
away or securing loose objects (garden furniture etc).

For bushfires there are the one off things like removing overhanging
trees but there are also seasonal things like clearing dry grass etc
from around the house, clearing gutters of all leaves, making sure
hoses and water pumps are operational. A submersible pump is great if
you have a swimming pool (you may not be able to get good pressure
with mains water if the fire services are drawing from it), pumps
should be diesel in case there is no electricity and you should ensure
an adequate supply of fuel. You should also have a box packed, and
reviewed annually, with things like photos, mortgage papers, insurance
papers, title deeds etc. Don't forget the pets if you have to
evacuate.

JB

>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> --
> "If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
> old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
> waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."
>
> -- Duncan Hines
>
> To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:57:04 -0400, "cshenk" > fired
> up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>
>> I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. I won't bore you with
>> the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big trips is
>> meats. I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one, partly due to
>> space needs but partly for same reason as above. The one over (or under)
>> the fridge doesnt keep as cool.
>
> <snip>
>
> This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
> school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
> emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
> hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
> proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.
>
> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one *prepare* for? I
> mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if you
> live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc., but
> you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
> marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really *prepare*
> for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and I can't
> think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just askin'
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
Severe snowstorms, floods, heavy rains, ice storms. Any number of
natural disasters can be planned for.

Actually those of us who live in hurricane areas are a bit more blessed
than anyone else. The preparations for hurricane season, stocking up
canned good, flashlight batteries, propane for grills or charcoal for
other grills, make sure the vehicle gas tanks are full, etc., are about
the same as for other disasters. Most of our friends and neighbors keep
their stock rotated in the pantry and use batteries, etc. in rotation also.

Our big freezer stays full because it is more economical that way plus
we can eat out of it without going to a market. Many homes around here
have their own whole house generator. We're seriously thinking of
getting one that is run on natural gas. They're only about $4K installed
but would be worth the money in the long run and would run cheaper than
a gasoline one would.

I've ridden out numerous hurricanes, tornadoes, and at least two ice
storms in my lifetime and we were always prepared and did well.
Meanwhile, I am totally frightened about earthquakes.

Terry Pulliam Burd > wrote in
:

> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make
> ahead of a hurricane? And what other natural disaster could
> one *prepare* for? I mean, you can't reasonably "prepare"
> for a forest fire, even if you live in the forest, other
> than to cut back your tree line, etc., but you only need to
> do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
> marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really
> *prepare* for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh,
> seasonal and I can't think of another natural disaster
> threat that is. Just askin'

well, blizzards in the midwest & northeast. nor'easters, which
are winter hurricanes in the north atlantic (& aren't the same
as blizzards)
flooding... there's usually some advance warning or it's
linked to seasonal rains.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

Mark Thorson > wrote in :

> Since deregulation, the incentives to invest have
> been turned upside-down. Today, maximizing return
> on investment means running your old equipment
> as long as possible and minimizing investment
> in new equipment. The electrical grid is being
> driven off a cliff, and the vast majority of the
> public is blissfully unaware of the impending doom.
>
>

This applies to Telephone Equipment as well. Not that telephone service is
as important as Electrical Equipment.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

George Shirley wrote:
> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:57:04 -0400, "cshenk" > fired
>> up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>>
>>> I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. I won't bore you
>>> with the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big
>>> trips is meats. I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one,
>>> partly due to space needs but partly for same reason as above. The
>>> one over (or under) the fridge doesnt keep as cool.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
>> school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
>> emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
>> hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
>> proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.
>> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
>> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one *prepare* for? I
>> mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if you
>> live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc., but
>> you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
>> marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really *prepare*
>> for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and I can't
>> think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just askin'
>>
>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> Severe snowstorms, floods, heavy rains, ice storms. Any number of
> natural disasters can be planned for.
>
> Actually those of us who live in hurricane areas are a bit more blessed
> than anyone else. The preparations for hurricane season, stocking up
> canned good, flashlight batteries, propane for grills or charcoal for
> other grills, make sure the vehicle gas tanks are full, etc., are about
> the same as for other disasters. Most of our friends and neighbors keep
> their stock rotated in the pantry and use batteries, etc. in rotation also.
>
> Our big freezer stays full because it is more economical that way plus
> we can eat out of it without going to a market. Many homes around here
> have their own whole house generator. We're seriously thinking of
> getting one that is run on natural gas. They're only about $4K installed
> but would be worth the money in the long run and would run cheaper than
> a gasoline one would.
>
> I've ridden out numerous hurricanes, tornadoes, and at least two ice
> storms in my lifetime and we were always prepared and did well.
> Meanwhile, I am totally frightened about earthquakes.


I've been tempted to get one of those little Honda 2000
generator/inverters. I think we could get along OK for a long while
with just 2000W of 110V power. But our city has its own power plants
and the electricity is just so darn reliable here it's not easy to
justify spending $1000 for it (and finding a place for it...)

I wish somebody made a small portable generator with a 1800 RPM diesel
engine. Diesel stores a lot better than gasoline.

Bob


Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:57:04 -0400, "cshenk" > fired
>>> up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>>>
>>>> I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. I won't bore you
>>>> with the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big
>>>> trips is meats. I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one,
>>>> partly due to space needs but partly for same reason as above. The
>>>> one over (or under) the fridge doesnt keep as cool.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
>>> school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
>>> emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
>>> hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
>>> proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.
>>> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
>>> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one *prepare* for? I
>>> mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if you
>>> live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc., but
>>> you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
>>> marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really *prepare*
>>> for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and I can't
>>> think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just askin'
>>>
>>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>> Severe snowstorms, floods, heavy rains, ice storms. Any number of
>> natural disasters can be planned for.
>>
>> Actually those of us who live in hurricane areas are a bit more
>> blessed than anyone else. The preparations for hurricane season,
>> stocking up canned good, flashlight batteries, propane for grills or
>> charcoal for other grills, make sure the vehicle gas tanks are full,
>> etc., are about the same as for other disasters. Most of our friends
>> and neighbors keep their stock rotated in the pantry and use
>> batteries, etc. in rotation also.
>>
>> Our big freezer stays full because it is more economical that way plus
>> we can eat out of it without going to a market. Many homes around here
>> have their own whole house generator. We're seriously thinking of
>> getting one that is run on natural gas. They're only about $4K
>> installed but would be worth the money in the long run and would run
>> cheaper than a gasoline one would.
>>
>> I've ridden out numerous hurricanes, tornadoes, and at least two ice
>> storms in my lifetime and we were always prepared and did well.
>> Meanwhile, I am totally frightened about earthquakes.
>
>
> I've been tempted to get one of those little Honda 2000
> generator/inverters. I think we could get along OK for a long while
> with just 2000W of 110V power. But our city has its own power plants
> and the electricity is just so darn reliable here it's not easy to
> justify spending $1000 for it (and finding a place for it...)
>
> I wish somebody made a small portable generator with a 1800 RPM diesel
> engine. Diesel stores a lot better than gasoline.
>
> Bob
I keep at least five gallons of gasoline on hand at all times Bob. Each
can gets Stabile and Seafoam added to it. Both are good for stabilizing
gasoline and ensuring a quick start. Since I started using Stabile
several years ago I no longer have to worry about gummed up carburetors
on tillers, mowers, generators, etc.

We're dependent upon a so-called public utility for our electrical
power. It isn't that reliable at times. Had a small thunderstorm day
before yesterday, power blipped twice. Last week we lost power for two
hours. I'm seriously considering the natural gas generator with an auto
start feature.

zxcvbob > wrote in
:

> George Shirley wrote:
>> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:57:04 -0400, "cshenk" > fired
>>> up random neurons and synapses to opine:
>>>
>>>> I just made the quarterly 'big trip' yesterday. I won't bore you
>>>> with the details of every item, but most of what I do on those big
>>>> trips is meats. I have a chest freezer to augment the fridge one,
>>>> partly due to space needs but partly for same reason as above. The
>>>> one over (or under) the fridge doesnt keep as cool.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> This thread reminded me of something said to me by one of my high
>>> school classmates who lives in Melbourne Beach FL. He says he starts
>>> emptying out his freezer in late spring every year - ahead of
>>> hurricane season. As a Californiac, it never occurred to me what
>>> proactive measures those in hurricane-land might have to take.
>>> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
>>> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one *prepare* for?
>>> I mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if
>>> you live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc.,
>>> but you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires
>>> are only marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really
>>> *prepare* for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and
>>> I can't think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just
>>> askin'
>>>
>>> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>> Severe snowstorms, floods, heavy rains, ice storms. Any number of
>> natural disasters can be planned for.
>>
>> Actually those of us who live in hurricane areas are a bit more
>> blessed than anyone else. The preparations for hurricane season,
>> stocking up canned good, flashlight batteries, propane for grills or
>> charcoal for other grills, make sure the vehicle gas tanks are full,
>> etc., are about the same as for other disasters. Most of our friends
>> and neighbors keep their stock rotated in the pantry and use
>> batteries, etc. in rotation also.
>>
>> Our big freezer stays full because it is more economical that way
>> plus we can eat out of it without going to a market. Many homes
>> around here have their own whole house generator. We're seriously
>> thinking of getting one that is run on natural gas. They're only
>> about $4K installed but would be worth the money in the long run and
>> would run cheaper than a gasoline one would.
>>
>> I've ridden out numerous hurricanes, tornadoes, and at least two ice
>> storms in my lifetime and we were always prepared and did well.
>> Meanwhile, I am totally frightened about earthquakes.
>
>
> I've been tempted to get one of those little Honda 2000
> generator/inverters. I think we could get along OK for a long while
> with just 2000W of 110V power. But our city has its own power plants
> and the electricity is just so darn reliable here it's not easy to
> justify spending $1000 for it (and finding a place for it...)
>
> I wish somebody made a small portable generator with a 1800 RPM diesel
> engine. Diesel stores a lot better than gasoline.
>
> Bob
>
>
> Bob
>

Somebody propbably does...I've seen propane operated generators on a tv
home re-model show. Just a largish box that lives in your back yard
(approx twice the size of a propane grill).

My Province exports power to the US...We get localized 'the transformer
blew' type power outages maybe once a year lasting anywhere from 30 sec
to 1 hour or so.

3 years ago my electricity went out over night...One of the feeders to my
house broke free in a winter storm. Strange feeling as I was the only
house in the block with no power... well half of my electrical stuff
worked and half didn't (half of my circuit breaker box went dead). My
furnace and chest freezer did work...my stove and refridgerator
didn't...some rooms had power some didn't...very strange when that
happens. When the electrical company came out it only took them minutes
to fix the issue by re-crimping the broken feeder.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

On 27 Jun 2008 05:42:36 GMT, "Dan Goodman" > wrote:

>Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>
>>
>> Other than that, what sort of preparation could one make ahead of a
>> hurricane? And what other natural disaster could one prepare for? I
>> mean, you can't reasonably "prepare" for a forest fire, even if you
>> live in the forest, other than to cut back your tree line, etc., but
>> you only need to do that once, not annually, and forest fires are only
>> marginally "seasonal." And here in SoCal, we can't really prepare
>> for an earthquake. Hurricane season is, uh, seasonal and I can't
>> think of another natural disaster threat that is. Just askin'
>
>One used to be able to find answers at misc.survivalism, before it was
>completely taken over by political stuff.

i can imagine. must be both hairy and comical.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:00:33 -0700, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>...and the vast majority of the
>public is blissfully unaware of the impending doom.

thank god you're here!

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:00:33 -0700, Mark Thorson >
> wrote:
>
> >...and the vast majority of the
> >public is blissfully unaware of the impending doom.
>
> thank god you're here!

If you need another reference, easier to understand,
this PowerPoint file is a good one:

http://www.eei.org/meetings/nonav_20...lm/Bielski.ppt

In article >,
Terry Pulliam Burd > wrote:

And here in SoCal, we can't really *prepare*
> for an earthquake.

Yes, you can and should prepare for an earthquake. Check with your
city/county or your local fire department. Here the local fire
department sells 72 hour kits to residents periodically. Also, the
local red cross and also the county came out to our church and spoke
about what we should do to prepare for an earthquake or other emergency.

Everyone should have three days (minimum) of food, water and medications
on hand at all times. Food that requires little to zero cooking is
recommended. Also, first aid kit, flashlights, batteries, battery
operated radio and cash on hand are recommended.

Also, at a minimum everyone should know how to turn off both the gas and
water supply to their homes in case the pipes are damaged.

Here's San Francisco's link http://www.72hours.org/ I'm sure your area
has a website too.

Just because you don't know when it will happen doesn't mean you can't
be prepared for it when it does.

marcella

Mark Thorson > wrote:

>Marcella Peek wrote:

>> Everyone should have three days (minimum) of food, water and medications
>> on hand at all times. Food that requires little to zero cooking is
>> recommended. Also, first aid kit, flashlights, batteries, battery
>> operated radio and cash on hand are recommended.

Native Californians don't worry about this earthquake junk.

>And a gun. Just in case you need to pick up
>an extra 3 days supply, somewhere. And don't
>forget the ammo.

I think the Supreme Court just ordered us all to carry a firearm
anyway.

Steve

Marcella Peek wrote:
>
> Everyone should have three days (minimum) of food, water and medications
> on hand at all times. Food that requires little to zero cooking is
> recommended. Also, first aid kit, flashlights, batteries, battery
> operated radio and cash on hand are recommended.

And a gun. Just in case you need to pick up
an extra 3 days supply, somewhere. And don't
forget the ammo.