Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> So why are the staff claiming Ginny's party stiffed them if that
>> was business is usual. You're not making sense. Besides, if they
>> think they didn't get a tip from Ginny's party, and Ginny's party did
>> leave a tip, nothing wrong with them knowing that.

> the staff was 'jealous' of the h/m job and position. It was if they
> didn't want to rock they boat they were encouraged (by the h/m and
> the night manager - who hired him) to believe they were stiffed.

Well, at least you're out of it. That's why I suggested getting
word back, so the waitstaff didn't have that misplaced anger,
that they could take care of the issue once they knew.

> I think this query may have stepped on Billy's toes. Have we been
> taken in the back room and upended to empty your pockets lately,
> Billy?

Makes you wonder, why'd he jump all over my non-accusatory
suggestion like that. Hmmmm.

Next time I'd pay and tip with a credit card at that place.

nancy

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:56:08 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>Where are you leaving this tip? Are you adding it on to your credit card
>bill and/or leaving it in the leather portfolio with the waiter?

It sounded like the maitre d' picks it up, not the waiter.

>How are you doing something different from everyone else at the
>restaurant that apparently aren't stiffing the crew?

Leaving a cash tip - not making it part of the credit card bill. Why
the wait staff would remember her is beyond me, but I bet they've
slowed down in general due to "you know who" and she wasn't singled
out. As someone else said: It's a management issue. As I said:
that restaurant won't be in business much longer - especially if he
remains an employee.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:17:21 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:
>
>cybercat wrote:
>
>> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:49:45 +0200, Sven Svensson > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Go to a place where the tip is already included in the price.
>> >
>> > I am positive you have a list of the restaurants that have that
>> > policy?
>> >
>>
>> If so, they are all outside the US.
>
>
>N-o-p-e ...

Many restaurants include the tip for xx number of people so the wait
staff won't get stiffed, but they don't do it to small parties.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"cybercat" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> So always leave the country? There are virtually no restaurants above
>> fast-food level in the US like that.
>>
>>
>
> And there shouldn't be. It encourages shit service.

That is categorically untrue. When people are paid well and respected they
do the service job just like they do any trade. It's the attitude that
waiting is inferior and deserves no decent pay nor benefits that has created
a monster. It also creates patronistic attitudes in customers.

"Michael \"Dog3\" wrote:
>
> I find it incredible how some servers are treated in the US. By employeer
> and customer alike here. �A friend owns a restaurant and his wait staff
> make good bucks. �Many of his employees, including kitchen staff are in
> school and some are working on their Phds etc. �You get the picture. The
> staff is well paid, respected and make a nice income on top of it. But...
> some patrons that are new to the establishment don't like it that if they
> become ignorant with the staff, the staff comes right back at them. It is
> allowed.

"ignorant"... don't you mean indignant? I'm not quite sure what
you're expressing but it's never proper for service employees to
become argumentitive/hostile with patrons. Intervention is
management's responsibility and should be notified immediately of any
impending altercation. And what is allowed... are you saying that the
restaurant owners encourage their employees to become rowdy with
patrons... that's how people end up in prison, or dead. The picture I
get regardless of their education level, is in the common sense/
courtesy department that restaurant's employees are the dumbest pieces
of shit going... one day the staff will cross the line and someone
will become seriously injured and/or some patron is going to own that
place. There is never an excuse for restaurant staff to become
beligerant with unruly patrons, they must be instructed to walk away
and inform management.

In article >, "Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:
>"Giusi" >
: in rec.food.cooking
>
>> That is categorically untrue. When people are paid well and respected
>> they do the service job just like they do any trade. It's the
>> attitude that waiting is inferior and deserves no decent pay nor
>> benefits that has created a monster. It also creates patronistic
>> attitudes in customers.
>
>I find it incredible how some servers are treated in the US. By employeer
>and customer alike here. A friend owns a restaurant and his wait staff
>make good bucks. Many of his employees, including kitchen staff are in
>school and some are working on their Phds etc.

Must be a McDonalds franchise.

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
> "cybercat" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> So always leave the country? There are virtually no restaurants above
>>> fast-food level in the US like that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And there shouldn't be. It encourages shit service.
>
> That is categorically untrue. When people are paid well and respected
> they do the service job just like they do any trade. It's the attitude
> that waiting is inferior and deserves no decent pay nor benefits that has
> created a monster. It also creates patronistic attitudes in customers.

I only know what I have seen when working in restaurants (and occasionally)
patronizing restaurants where 15% was added (this was years ago) to parties
of six or more.

It is not, therefore, "categorically untrue," but may not always be true. I
had
regular large parties ask for me because I did not do what my fellow servers
did. And no, this was not "fine dining." It was a jazz cafe in Baltimore,
Chilis,
and a chain called Darryl's down here.

"sf" <.> wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:17:21 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>>
>>cybercat wrote:
>>
>>> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:49:45 +0200, Sven Svensson > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>Go to a place where the tip is already included in the price.
>>> >
>>> > I am positive you have a list of the restaurants that have that
>>> > policy?
>>> >
>>>
>>> If so, they are all outside the US.
>>
>>
>>N-o-p-e ...
>
> Many restaurants include the tip for xx number of people so the wait
> staff won't get stiffed, but they don't do it to small parties.
>

That's not what I was talking about. I meant an automatic percentage
added to all tabs. Asswipe knows this.

cyberARSE blabbled:

> "sf" <.> wrote in message
...
> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:17:21 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> > > wrote:
> >>
> >>cybercat wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:49:45 +0200, Sven Svensson > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >>Go to a place where the tip is already included in the price.
> >>> >
> >>> > I am positive you have a list of the restaurants that have that
> >>> > policy?
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> If so, they are all outside the US.
> >>
> >>
> >>N-o-p-e ...
> >
> > Many restaurants include the tip for xx number of people so the wait
> > staff won't get stiffed, but they don't do it to small parties.
> >
>
> That's not what I was talking about. I meant an automatic percentage
> added to all tabs. Asswipe knows this.


Charlie Trotter's here in Chicawgo, The French Laundry in Yountville CA, and
Chez Panisse in Berkeley CA come to mind as places that AFAIK levy a service
charge in lieu of a tip...

As these parvenu joints hardly come up to the Chili's or Furr's Cafeteria
level that you are ordinarily accustomed to, I guess you wouldn't know
that, cyberpussie...

Oh, and BTW, kindly CLOSE yer LEGS, cyberpussie, you are beginning to
stink - AGAIN...!!!

Clear the decks, folks - UGH...!!!

;-p


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

sf wrote:


> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:17:21 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
> >
> >cybercat wrote:
> >
> >> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:49:45 +0200, Sven Svensson > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Go to a place where the tip is already included in the price.
> >> >
> >> > I am positive you have a list of the restaurants that have that
> >> > policy?
> >> >
> >>
> >> If so, they are all outside the US.
> >
> >
> >N-o-p-e ...
>
> Many restaurants include the tip for xx number of people so the wait
> staff won't get stiffed, but they don't do it to small parties.
>


Googling around you'll find that some high - end places add a gratuity, see
my response to hoohoocat below...

In Miami's South Beach this is also apparently a somewhat common practice,
as a large number of foreigners (Europeans...) frequent the place...

[Lemme tell ya, how many CHEAP - arsed Europeans, Australians, etc. have I
seen here in Chicago who stiff waiters and bartenders as a matter of course?
A LOT...and the most egregrious skanky - assed offenders are those who have
chosen to RESIDE here for a length of time, so there's no excuse for them
not learning the local customs. They "play dumb" by pretending that they
don't know that they are supposed to tip. Yeah, right...

The very worst offenders in this regard I've seen are New Zealanders and
Eye - talians. With the Eye - talians it is a magnitude worse because they
generally don't bathe and have stifling BO. Bathing is another little
practice they apparently like to play dumb about...and the wimmin folk don't
shave their armpits or legs, either. Very elegant clothes, though, lol...]

On several blogs and articles I've perused it's mentioned that the higher -
end places have so many staff providing the service to each table that it's
simply easier for the diner to pay a set gratuity instead of chasing down
each individual to ensure that they are properly tipped out. It also
ensures that everyone gets their fair cut. At least that's how it's
*supposed* to work...


--
Best
Greg

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:32:35 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>sf wrote:
>
>
>> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:17:21 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >cybercat wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:49:45 +0200, Sven Svensson > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>Go to a place where the tip is already included in the price.
>> >> >
>> >> > I am positive you have a list of the restaurants that have that
>> >> > policy?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> If so, they are all outside the US.
>> >
>> >
>> >N-o-p-e ...
>>
>> Many restaurants include the tip for xx number of people so the wait
>> staff won't get stiffed, but they don't do it to small parties.
>>
>
>
>Googling around you'll find that some high - end places add a gratuity, see
>my response to hoohoocat below...
>
>In Miami's South Beach this is also apparently a somewhat common practice,
>as a large number of foreigners (Europeans...) frequent the place...
>
>[Lemme tell ya, how many CHEAP - arsed Europeans, Australians, etc. have I
>seen here in Chicago who stiff waiters and bartenders as a matter of course?
>A LOT...and the most egregrious skanky - assed offenders are those who have
>chosen to RESIDE here for a length of time, so there's no excuse for them
>not learning the local customs. They "play dumb" by pretending that they
>don't know that they are supposed to tip. Yeah, right...
>
>The very worst offenders in this regard I've seen are New Zealanders and
>Eye - talians. With the Eye - talians it is a magnitude worse because they
>generally don't bathe and have stifling BO. Bathing is another little
>practice they apparently like to play dumb about...and the wimmin folk don't
>shave their armpits or legs, either. Very elegant clothes, though, lol...]
>
>On several blogs and articles I've perused it's mentioned that the higher -
>end places have so many staff providing the service to each table that it's
>simply easier for the diner to pay a set gratuity instead of chasing down
>each individual to ensure that they are properly tipped out. It also
>ensures that everyone gets their fair cut. At least that's how it's
>*supposed* to work...

Too bad to hear that Europeans and Aussies (especially expats) are
unwilling to observe local customs. They've complained so long and
hard about us, you'd think they'd want to show us uncultured Americans
what a class act they are. I guess the old saying about "When in
Rome..." isn't observed anymore.

Anyway, we'll be seeing more foreign tourists now that the dollar is
taking such a beating, so restaurants with larger foreign tourist
populations will be the first to switch over to a service charge.
Can't say I mind, because it's is less than what I'd tip anyway.

Hooray for multi-national tourism!


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:05:58 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon >
wrote:

>"ignorant"... don't you mean indignant?

I think he meant "arrogant".


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:16:47 -0400, Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:

> I had someone ask me this the other day, so I am now bringing it to you for
> your consideration:

<snipped for sanity>
>
> Discuss among yourselves.

I'll pass, thanks...
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

"cybercat" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
> "Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>> "cybercat" > ha scritto nel messaggio

>>> And there shouldn't be. It encourages shit service.
>>
>> That is categorically untrue. When people are paid well and respected
>> they do the service job just like they do any trade. It's the attitude
>> that waiting is inferior and deserves no decent pay nor benefits that has
>> created a monster. It also creates patronistic attitudes in customers.
>
> I only know what I have seen when working in restaurants (and
> occasionally)
> patronizing restaurants where 15% was added (this was years ago) to
> parties
> of six or more.
>
> It is not, therefore, "categorically untrue," but may not always be true.
> I had
> regular large parties ask for me because I did not do what my fellow
> servers
> did. And no, this was not "fine dining." It was a jazz cafe in Baltimore,

Whatyou describe is a group of people who know they will be paid and
therefore refuse to do their jobs. No self respect at all. Maybe the
system is broken.

In hundreds of restaurants outside the US where the tip is included in the
price opf the food, people take good care of their customers and treat their
jobs as respectable. Because they are. They have all the same benefits of
any job and they earn the same money as an electrician.

"Gregory Morrow" >

> The very worst offenders in this regard I've seen are New Zealanders and
> Eye - talians. With the Eye - talians it is a magnitude worse because
> they
> generally don't bathe and have stifling BO. Bathing is another little
> practice they apparently like to play dumb about...and the wimmin folk
> don't
> shave their armpits or legs, either. Very elegant clothes, though,
> lol...]

> Best
> Greg

That's your best? What a shame. You're probably never going to catch up
with Sheldon for thick headed bogotry, but you are also no Fred Allen.

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
>
>> You go into a a fairly chi-chi restaurant. You are waited on very well
>> by many different people. At the end of the meal, you make a generous
>> tip to either a) the head waiter or the b) maitre'd and indicate that the
>> tip be spread around accordingly. At a later date, you go to the same
>> restaurant, the head/maitre'd treats you well, but the rest of the staff
>> treats you as if you were dirt under their feet. You tip again, the same
>> way as before, but find out thru the grapevine (aka a friend of one of
>> you kids works there) that you 'stiffed' the staff twice in a row. The
>> only explaination is that the head/maitre'd is pocketing the quite
>> sizable tip and telling the others 'no tip for you'. What would you do?
>
>
> Where are you leaving this tip? Are you adding it on to your credit card
> bill and/or leaving it in the leather portfolio with the waiter?
> How are you doing something different from everyone else at the restaurant
> that apparently aren't stiffing the crew?

As I stated in the original post, the question was posed to me, it was not I
who dined, but from what I gather, the person in question uses plastic so I
would gather that the tip was incorporated in the final tally submitted at
the end of the meal. Person who inquired had been employed as waitstaff in
college and was mortified to think that it was being 'passed along' that
s/he would stiff a waiter. From what was later learned from the source was
that tips are 'light' and often non-existent and the h/m often states that
is because the staff is incompetent.
-ginny

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:40:56 -0400, "Virginia Tadrzynski"
> wrote:

>As I stated in the original post, the question was posed to me, it was not I
>who dined, but from what I gather, the person in question uses plastic so I
>would gather that the tip was incorporated in the final tally submitted at
>the end of the meal. Person who inquired had been employed as waitstaff in
>college and was mortified to think that it was being 'passed along' that
>s/he would stiff a waiter. From what was later learned from the source was
>that tips are 'light' and often non-existent and the h/m often states that
>is because the staff is incompetent.
>-ginny

Sad. Steal from them, then tell them it's all their fault they aren't
getting the money they deserve. That's a real moral booster. I bet
he beats his wife and kicks his dog too.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West