I like to bake. Usually I make small batches of cookies, muffins, quick
breads. I combine ingredients in a bowl and mix by hand with a wooden
spoon or wire whip. From time to time I make yeast bread. I knead by hand.


Recently we've been thinking about how much we like croissants and how
there's no bakery around here that makes good ones and how far we drive
in the quest for the perfect croissant. We've been thinking about
making them ourselves.


I bought _Baking Illustrated: The Practical Kitchen Companion for the
Home Baker_. This is the book by the editors of Cook's Illustrated
Magzine, America's Test Kitchen people with Christopher Kimball, the guy
with the bowtie. I know we all like to argue about television
celebrities, but I like those people. I find the information
well-presented and informative.


The book recommends a stand-up mixer for the croissant dough. We don't
have one, and I'm looking for advice on whether we need one. It's the
usual consideration of balancing cost and counter space against how much
we'd actually use it. We do have a cuisinart which is kept under the
counter and brought out from time to time. Has anyone found that having
a stand-up mixer makes a big difference in making croissants, or is
doing that part by hand or cuisinart just as good? I don't want to buy
a big appliance for one task, but neither do I want to risk bad results
because I wasn't willing to start with the right equipment.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> I like to bake. Usually I make small batches of cookies, muffins, quick
> breads. I combine ingredients in a bowl and mix by hand with a wooden
> spoon or wire whip. From time to time I make yeast bread. I knead by
> hand.
>
>
> Recently we've been thinking about how much we like croissants and how
> there's no bakery around here that makes good ones and how far we drive
> in the quest for the perfect croissant. We've been thinking about
> making them ourselves.
>
>
> I bought _Baking Illustrated: The Practical Kitchen Companion for the
> Home Baker_. This is the book by the editors of Cook's Illustrated
> Magzine, America's Test Kitchen people with Christopher Kimball, the guy
> with the bowtie. I know we all like to argue about television
> celebrities, but I like those people. I find the information
> well-presented and informative.
>
>
> The book recommends a stand-up mixer for the croissant dough. We don't
> have one, and I'm looking for advice on whether we need one. It's the
> usual consideration of balancing cost and counter space against how much
> we'd actually use it. We do have a cuisinart which is kept under the
> counter and brought out from time to time. Has anyone found that having
> a stand-up mixer makes a big difference in making croissants, or is
> doing that part by hand or cuisinart just as good? I don't want to buy
> a big appliance for one task, but neither do I want to risk bad results
> because I wasn't willing to start with the right equipment.

If your food processor can combine the dough's ingredients quickly
enough to prevent excessive gluten formation, then your FP will work
just fine.

Croissants use multifold pastry dough. Handling of the dough during
rolling, folding and shaping will also require speed and cold conditions
or too much gluten will form and your shortening may melt away before
baking.

On Jun 25, 6:20*am, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> I like to bake. *Usually I make small batches of cookies, muffins, quick
> breads. *I combine ingredients in a bowl and mix by hand with a wooden
> spoon or wire whip. *From time to time I make yeast bread. *I knead by hand.
>
> Recently we've been thinking about how much we like croissants and how
> there's no bakery around here that makes good ones and how far we drive
> in the quest for the perfect croissant. *We've been thinking about
> making them ourselves.
>
> I bought _Baking Illustrated: The Practical Kitchen Companion for the
> Home Baker_. *This is the book by the editors of Cook's Illustrated
> Magzine, America's Test Kitchen people with Christopher Kimball, the guy
> with the bowtie. *I know we all like to argue about television
> celebrities, but I like those people. *I find the information
> well-presented and informative.
>
> The book recommends a stand-up mixer for the croissant dough. *We don't
> have one, and I'm looking for advice on whether we need one. *It's the
> usual consideration of balancing cost and counter space against how much
> we'd actually use it. *We do have a cuisinart which is kept under the
> counter and brought out from time to time. *Has anyone found that having
> a stand-up mixer makes a big difference in making croissants, or is
> doing that part by hand or cuisinart just as good? *I don't want to buy
> a big appliance for one task, but neither do I want to risk bad results
> because I wasn't willing to start with the right equipment.
>
> --Lia

I think you should go for it! I've made them lots of times, and they
are not hard, just tedious. And no, you don't need a mixer- just knead
by hand. Follow the directions- you need to keep your dough chilled so
the butter doesn't melt. Also, use unsalted butter. You will be really
happy with the results! Sometimes I will roll a slice of proscitto
(sp) in the crescent, or a chunk of chocolate- yum!! Good luck- you
can do it!

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
>I like to bake. Usually I make small batches of cookies, muffins, quick
>breads. I combine ingredients in a bowl and mix by hand with a wooden
>spoon or wire whip. From time to time I make yeast bread. I knead by
>hand.
>
>
> Recently we've been thinking about how much we like croissants and how
> there's no bakery around here that makes good ones and how far we drive in
> the quest for the perfect croissant. We've been thinking about making
> them ourselves.
>
>
> I bought _Baking Illustrated: The Practical Kitchen Companion for the Home
> Baker_. This is the book by the editors of Cook's Illustrated Magzine,
> America's Test Kitchen people with Christopher Kimball, the guy with the
> bowtie. I know we all like to argue about television celebrities, but I
> like those people. I find the information well-presented and informative.
>
>
> The book recommends a stand-up mixer for the croissant dough. We don't
> have one, and I'm looking for advice on whether we need one. It's the
> usual consideration of balancing cost and counter space against how much
> we'd actually use it. We do have a cuisinart which is kept under the
> counter and brought out from time to time. Has anyone found that having a
> stand-up mixer makes a big difference in making croissants, or is doing
> that part by hand or cuisinart just as good? I don't want to buy a big
> appliance for one task, but neither do I want to risk bad results because
> I wasn't willing to start with the right equipment.
>
>
> --Lia
>

Before I would invest in a stand mixer to only make croissants, I would
invest $10-$20 in a 24 inch by 24 inch pc of scrap marble countertop or a
large marble tile. Mine is 24 by 36 inches.
Keep the tile in the fridge (or outside in cold weather), and use as a
pastry board. Works wonders w/ pie crust as well.

Woolstitcher wrote:
>
> Before I would invest in a stand mixer to only make croissants, I would
> invest $10-$20 in a 24 inch by 24 inch pc of scrap marble countertop or a
> large marble tile. Mine is 24 by 36 inches.
> Keep the tile in the fridge (or outside in cold weather), and use as a
> pastry board. Works wonders w/ pie crust as well.


That, I can do. I'm only wishing I'd picked one up at the discount
store when I saw them several months ago. At the time, I was thinking
that they looked gorgeous, then couldn't justify buying something for no
purpose. Now I realize that it looks gorgeous AND has a purpose.


I'll start by mixing in the cuisinart. If I'm unhappy with the results,
I'll try kneading by hand. With the summer weather going from scorching
to thunderstorm so quickly, it'll be hard to get the timing right.
We'll want to work with cold dough during the scorch, then have the oven
on during the storm.


Thanks to all. I'll report back when I have some croissants to tell you
about.


--Lia

As we speak, the croissants have had their 4th turn and are now in the
fridge chilling for another 2 hours awaiting time for shaping, rolling,
and baking. We've done our best to follow instructions. We mixed and
kneaded by hand. Jim got out a ruler to make sure we were forming a 14"
square correctly. We had the book out every step of the way and read it
to each other. We don't have a marble block, but we'll keep an eye out
for one and buy one if we can find it for a good price. The original
plan was to see how we did with plain croissants, but now we can't
resist going out to the store for almonds so we can try the frangipane
filling. Jim is starting to notice that it doesn't look like we made
that many. We're excited to try these. If they come out good, we might
have to double the recipe.


--Lia

The results from yesterday's croissant baking marathon are mixed. I was
excited at the prospect of making perfect flaky buttery croissants on
the first try. It wasn't a total disaster, but the reality fell short
of expectation.


I can't put my finger on it, but I didn't like the flavor. The big
mistake I made was forgetting the salt. I'm so in the habit when
cooking of leaving the salt out in the kitchen. That way I can put it
on at the table, and Jim can leave it off. When baking, I always used
to buy salted butter, then leave off adding salt from the container.
This time I screwed up, used unsalted butter, and forgot to add the
teaspoon of table salt the recipe called for.


The problem with the flavor could also have been the flour. We used
King Arthur. The book recommends Gold Metal. Our technique might need
refining. It was fun rolling out the dough and doing the turns, but I
can see how if you don't do it exactly right, you can incorporate the
butter instead of getting it to layer.


One success was the frangipane. We'd never made that from scratch
before, and it was wonderful. It's something I'll put in other
desserts. Already I'm thinking about putting it with apples and pears,
maybe in phyllo dough.


--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" schrieb :
<snip croissant baking marathon>
> The problem with the flavor could also have been the flour. We used King
> Arthur. The book recommends Gold Metal. Our technique might need refining.
> It was fun rolling out the dough and doing the turns, but I can see how if you
> don't do it exactly right, you can incorporate the butter instead of getting
> it to layer.

Try to use Hungarian flour. AFAIK, that's the closest to the flour
we use over here you can get in the USA.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Michael Kuettner wrote:
>
> Try to use Hungarian flour. AFAIK, that's the closest to the flour
> we use over here you can get in the USA.


I'd never heard of Hungarian flour so I googled. I hoped to find a
picture of what a 5# bag would look like so I could find it easily at
the supermarket. No luck. Please help.


The funny thing about this is that Jim has started looking on ebay to
see how much it would cost to outfit an entire commercial croissant
making enterprise. We are NOT professional bakers. We didn't even get
great results when we tried to make 12 croissants at home. (I asked him
if we were going to put the equipment in the living room or the back
yard.) But as long as there's an internet, why not dream big? So while
we're at it, why not find a source for hundreds of pounds Hungarian flour?


--Lia

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:53:17 +0200, "Michael Kuettner"
> wrote:

>Try to use Hungarian flour. AFAIK, that's the closest to the flour
>we use over here you can get in the USA.

That might be a little confusing....check out


http://www.sourdoughhome.com/huhialflourtest.html



The name confuses everyone. Many people here in Gunnison, Colorado, at
an altitude of 7,700 feet (2,346 meters) above sea level, think this
flour is good to use at high altitudes. Actually, it's no better than
any other flour at high altitudes. And they are confused about the
"Hungarian" part too.

The "Hungarian" part of the name comes from the process used to mill
the flour, which was developed in Hungary in the 1800's. It was
brought to Colorado by J.K. Mullen in 1875, and is still used on this
flour. The flour is milled from hard wheat from Colorado, the Dakotas,
and Montana, so the "high altitude" refers to where the grain is
grown.

"Julia Altshuler" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>> Try to use Hungarian flour. AFAIK, that's the closest to the flour
>> we use over here you can get in the USA.
>
>
> I'd never heard of Hungarian flour so I googled. I hoped to find a picture of
> what a 5# bag would look like so I could find it easily at the supermarket.
> No luck. Please help.
>
Hungarian flour is a very fine grained wheat flour. See below.
>
> The funny thing about this is that Jim has started looking on ebay to see how
> much it would cost to outfit an entire commercial croissant making enterprise.
> We are NOT professional bakers. We didn't even get great results when we
> tried to make 12 croissants at home. (I asked him if we were going to put the
> equipment in the living room or the back yard.) But as long as there's an
> internet, why not dream big? So while we're at it, why not find a source for
> hundreds of pounds Hungarian flour?
>
After googling, I guess you'll want to use "pastry flour" or "cake flour".
For fluffy things like croissants you need a very fine-milled wheat flour,
like those two above.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

"Billy" schrieb :
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:53:17 +0200, "Michael Kuettner" wrote:
>
>>Try to use Hungarian flour. AFAIK, that's the closest to the flour
>>we use over here you can get in the USA.
>
> That might be a little confusing....check out
>
>
> http://www.sourdoughhome.com/huhialflourtest.html
>
>
Thanks for the info (see also my other post) .
The tiny details of USAn cooking are so very different
from what I'm used to.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

"Julia Altshuler" > ha scritto nel messaggio > The
results from yesterday's croissant baking marathon are mixed. I was
> excited at the prospect of making perfect flaky buttery croissants on the
> first try. It wasn't a total disaster, but the reality fell short of
> expectation.
>
>
> I can't put my finger on it, but I didn't like the flavor. The big
> mistake I made was forgetting the salt. I'm so in the habit when cooking
> of leaving the salt out in the kitchen. That way I can put it on at the
> table, and Jim can leave it off. When baking, I always used to buy salted
> butter, then leave off adding salt from the container. This time I screwed
> up, used unsalted butter, and forgot to add the teaspoon of table salt the
> recipe called for.
>
>
> The problem with the flavor could also have been the flour. We used King
> Arthur. The book recommends Gold Metal. Our technique might need
> refining. It was fun rolling out the dough and doing the turns, but I can
> see how if you don't do it exactly right, you can incorporate the butter
> instead of getting it to layer.

I feel sure it is the salt. Tuscan and Umbrian bread are made without salt
and they taste like toilet paper.
>
>
> One success was the frangipane. We'd never made that from scratch before,
> and it was wonderful. It's something I'll put in other desserts. Already
> I'm thinking about putting it with apples and pears, maybe in phyllo
> dough.
>
>
> --Lia
>

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:10:32 -0400, Billy <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom>
wrote:

>The "Hungarian" part of the name comes from the process used to mill
>the flour, which was developed in Hungary in the 1800's. It was
>brought to Colorado by J.K. Mullen in 1875, and is still used on this
>flour. The flour is milled from hard wheat from Colorado, the Dakotas,
>and Montana, so the "high altitude" refers to where the grain is
>grown.

I bet you can't buy 5 pounds for $5 anymore either. What has it gone
up to?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Jun 29, 9:48�am, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> The results from yesterday's croissant baking marathon are mixed. �I was
> excited at the prospect of making perfect flaky buttery croissants on
> the first try. �It wasn't a total disaster, but the reality fell short
> of expectation.
>
> I can't put my finger on it, but I didn't like the flavor. �The big
> mistake I made was forgetting the salt. �I'm so in the habit when
> cooking of leaving the salt out in the kitchen. �That way I can put it
> on at the table, and Jim can leave it off. �When baking, I always used
> to buy salted butter, then leave off adding salt from the container.
> This time I screwed up, used unsalted butter, and forgot to add the
> teaspoon of table salt the recipe called for.
>
> The problem with the flavor could also have been the flour. �We used
> King Arthur. �The book recommends Gold Metal. �Our technique might need
> refining. It was fun rolling out the dough and doing the turns, but I
> can see how if you don't do it exactly right, you can incorporate the
> butter instead of getting it to layer.
>
> One success was the frangipane. �We'd never made that from scratch
> before, and it was wonderful. �It's something I'll put in other
> desserts. �Already I'm thinking about putting it with apples and pears,
> maybe in phyllo dough.
>
> --Lia

It was definitely the lack of salt that kept your croissants from
tasting the way they should. Without salt baked goods have a bland
pasty taste to them. The fact that the recipe suggested Gold Medal
flour means nothing. The publishers of the book probably had an
advertising deal with the makers of Gold Medal flour. There's nothing
unique about Gold Medal flour.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:11:55 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

> There's nothing
>unique about Gold Medal flour.

Oh but, but there is something unique about Gold Medal. It is a blend
of select hard and soft wheat.

On the other hand White Lily is ONLY soft wheat flour great for
biscuits, etc.

From hardest to softest flours: durum wheat flour and semolina flour
(typically used for making pastas), whole wheat flour and graham flour
(typically mixed with all-purpose or bread flour to make bread or
baked goods), bread flour (typically used for making yeast breads),
all-purpose flour (can be used for breads and baked goods), pastry
flour (typically used for pastries), and cake flour (typically used
for cakes).

On Jun 29, 11:11Â*am, " > wrote:
> On Jun 29, 9:48�am, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The results from yesterday's croissant baking marathon are mixed. �I was
> > excited at the prospect of making perfect flaky buttery croissants on
> > the first try. �It wasn't a total disaster, but the reality fell short
> > of expectation.
>
> > I can't put my finger on it, but I didn't like the flavor. �The big
> > mistake I made was forgetting the salt. �I'm so in the habit when
> > cooking of leaving the salt out in the kitchen. �That way I can put it
> > on at the table, and Jim can leave it off. �When baking, I always used
> > to buy salted butter, then leave off adding salt from the container.
> > This time I screwed up, used unsalted butter, and forgot to add the
> > teaspoon of table salt the recipe called for.
>
> > The problem with the flavor could also have been the flour. �We used
> > King Arthur. �The book recommends Gold Metal. �Our technique might need
> > refining. It was fun rolling out the dough and doing the turns, but I
> > can see how if you don't do it exactly right, you can incorporate the
> > butter instead of getting it to layer.
>
> > One success was the frangipane. �We'd never made that from scratch
> > before, and it was wonderful. �It's something I'll put in other
> > desserts. �Already I'm thinking about putting it with apples and pears,
> > maybe in phyllo dough.
>
> > --Lia
>
> It was definitely the lack of salt that kept your croissants from
> tasting the way they should. Â*Without salt baked goods have a bland
> pasty taste to them. Â*The fact that the recipe suggested Gold Medal
> flour means nothing. Â*The publishers of the book probably had an
> advertising deal with the makers of Gold Medal flour. Â*There's nothing
> unique about Gold Medal flour.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree with your statements 100%...

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:59:45 -0400, Billy <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom>
wrote:

>Oh but, but there is something unique about Gold Medal. It is a blend
>of select hard and soft wheat.

<slapping forehead> So that's why they call it "all purpose"?!?!
Duh. Sometimes you just take things for granted and someone has to
point out the obvious.

PS: Why don't you set up a real email account specifically for usenet
purposes?



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Jun 29, 2:59�pm, Billy <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:11:55 -0700 (PDT), "
>
> > wrote:
> > There's nothing
> >unique about Gold Medal flour.
>
> Oh but, but there is something unique about Gold Medal. �It is a blend
> of select hard and soft wheat. �

So are a lot of other all-purpose flours. So it's not unique.

Billy wrote:
>
> Oh but, but there is something unique about Gold Medal. It is a blend
> of select hard and soft wheat.
>
> On the other hand White Lily is ONLY soft wheat flour great for
> biscuits, etc.
>
> From hardest to softest flours:

durum wheat flour and semolina flour
> (typically used for making pastas),

whole wheat flour and graham flour
> (typically mixed with all-purpose or bread flour to make bread or
> baked goods),

bread flour (typically used for making yeast breads),
>

all-purpose flour (can be used for breads and baked goods),

pastry
> flour (typically used for pastries),

and cake flour (typically used
> for cakes).


The above is the way I remember the list from hardest to softest too
(except I thought that whole wheat, since the bran and germ have no
gluten, are considered softer than all-purpose).


In addition, _Baking Illustrated_ gives the following percentages of
protein in all purpose flours:

King Arthur 11.7%
Heckers/Cresota 11.5-11.9%
Hodgson Mill 11.0%
Gold Medal 10.5%
Pilsbury 10.5%


For croissants, you want the right amount of protein. Too much, and the
final product will be gluey, the texture of bagels. Too little, and the
product won't hold together. You'll get pure crumbs. Since I took my
recipe from _Baking Illustrated_, I thought I'd go with the sort of
flour they recommended for croissants (GM or Pilsbury). But then I had
KA in the house and used it. When we try again, we'll use the GM or
Pilsbury.


We now have a list of things to do differently next time. They're all
to bring us closer to the BI recipe: get the salt right, switch flours,
use the cuisinart instead of hand kneading, pay closer attention to
keeping the dough cold, check oven temperature. Then, after we've done
all that, if we still don't like our results, we'll look for a different
recipe or more information.


For one thing, I'm not sure about the instructions given for the turns.
It doesn't seem like it would produce enough layers. I attended the
Culinary Institute 20 years ago and don't remember much, but I do have a
picture in my head of the turns being done differently.


Jim and I also have a question about the oven temperature. In addition
to thinking that the croissants didn't taste right (probably due to the
lack of salt), they seemed underbaked to me, pasty or doughy in the
center when the outsides were browned. They took longer than the
recipe's 18-22 minutes to bake.


Jim would solve the problem by putting the oven temp higher than 400
degrees. I think that would make it worse, would make them burn on the
outside before the centers were cooked at all. I'd lower the oven temp
to 350 and bake them longer. I'm also thinking that we need larger
cookie sheets to bake them on so there's more room for air to circulate
between them. Any thoughts?


Thanks to everyone who wrote.


--Lia

Billy wrote:
>
> http://www.sourdoughhome.com/huhialflourtest.html


Thanks for that good information and webpage. I see that the flour is
said to have a 10% protein content. _Baking Illustrated_ recommended
all purpose Gold Medal or all purpose Pilsbury, both with 10.5% protein
content. So your recommendation makes sense and is in keeping with my
recipe.


Without researching more about the commercial flours, it's possible that
they ARE milled with the Hungarian method. I'm interested in the
subject, but I'm not THAT interested. I'll learn more about milling
processes if it turns out that I need to know in order to get good
results on something I'm baking.


--Lia

On Jun 29, 9:02�pm, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> We now have a list of things to do differently next time. �They're all
> to bring us closer to the BI recipe: �get the salt right, switch flours,
> use the cuisinart instead of hand kneading, pay closer attention to
> keeping the dough cold, check oven temperature. �Then, after we've done
> all that, if we still don't like our results, we'll look for a different
> recipe or more information.
>
> For one thing, I'm not sure about the instructions given for the turns.
> � It doesn't seem like it would produce enough layers. �I attended the
> Culinary Institute 20 years ago and don't remember much, but I do have a
> picture in my head of the turns being done differently.
>
> Jim and I also have a question about the oven temperature. �In addition
> to thinking that the croissants didn't taste right (probably due to the
> lack of salt), they seemed underbaked to me, pasty or doughy in the
> center when the outsides were browned. �They took longer than the
> recipe's 18-22 minutes to bake.
>
> Jim would solve the problem by putting the oven temp higher than 400
> degrees. �I think that would make it worse, would make them burn on the
> outside before the centers were cooked at all. �I'd lower the oven temp
> to 350 and bake them longer. �I'm also thinking that we need larger
> cookie sheets to bake them on so there's more room for air to circulate
> between them. �Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks to everyone who wrote.
>
> --Lia

The recipe I use says to bake the croissants at 425 degrees for 12 to
15 minutes. It also says nothing about kneading the dough since the
dough is basically kneaded when you do the turns. The dough itself,
without the butter, is a very soft and wet dough. You have to use a
LOT of flour when you roll it out initially but you want to make sure
that the extra flour doesn't actually get worked into the dough. If
the dough is too stiff you end up with something that's close to a
flaky biscuit rather than a croissant. Here's the recipe.

Butter roll-in
1 1/4 cups cold butter (I've use both unsalted and salted butter with
equally good results. In fact, I actually prefer the taste of salted
butter)
3 tablespoons flour

Beat butter and flour together until flour is thoroughly mixed in and
the butter is plastic. Shape into a 6- by 8- in rectangle. Set aside
in a cool spot.

Dough:
1 pkg. active dry yeast
1 1/4 cups milk, heated to about 110 degrees
2 teaspoons sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
2 7/8cups all-purpose flour ( I've used Gold Medal, Pillsbury, and
Kroger brand with equal results)

Mix the dough ingredients like you would any type of yeast dough but
do not knead. Refrigerate dough for 10 to 15 minutes. For the
initially rolling be sure to use plenty of flour on your rolling
surface, and I do mean plenty. Use a sifter or a shaker to evenly
distribute the flour and make sure it's at least a sixteenth to an
eighth of an inch thick on your work surface. Roll out dough to
10"X14". Place the block or slab of butter on one side of the
rectangle and fold the other half over and seal the edges. Give the
dough 4 three-folds making sure to brush away all traces of flour
before folding the dough. Refrigerate the dough for 45 minutes to an
hour between each turn. Chill dough at least 3 hours after completing
the 4th turn. Roll dough out into a 10" X 20" rectangle. Cut into 8
squares and then cut each square into two triangles. Stretch each
triangle until all sides are the same length. Roll up and curve
points inward to make a crescent shape. Place on baking pans that
have been lightly sprayed with baking spray, or you can use parchment
paper. Cover croissants with a towel and let them rise in a
relatively cool spot so they're nice and puffy. Don't place them in a
warm spot because the butter in them might get soft. Rising time may
take several hours. Brush croissants with an egg wash before baking
them.

tip: After you get through rolling out the dough each time you can
take a pastry brush and sweep up all the bench flour and re-use the
next time you go to roll out the dough. You'll find that very little
of the flour used to roll out the dough actually gets worked into the
dough.

wrote:

> The recipe I use says to bake the croissants at 425 degrees for 12 to
> 15 minutes. It also says nothing about kneading the dough since the
> dough is basically kneaded when you do the turns. The dough itself,
> without the butter, is a very soft and wet dough. You have to use a
> LOT of flour when you roll it out initially but you want to make sure
> that the extra flour doesn't actually get worked into the dough. If
> the dough is too stiff you end up with something that's close to a
> flaky biscuit rather than a croissant. Here's the recipe.
>
> Butter roll-in
> 1 1/4 cups cold butter (I've use both unsalted and salted butter with
> equally good results. In fact, I actually prefer the taste of salted
> butter)
> 3 tablespoons flour
>
> Beat butter and flour together until flour is thoroughly mixed in and
> the butter is plastic. Shape into a 6- by 8- in rectangle. Set aside
> in a cool spot.
>
> Dough:
> 1 pkg. active dry yeast
> 1 1/4 cups milk, heated to about 110 degrees
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> 1 1/2 teaspoons salt
> 2 7/8cups all-purpose flour ( I've used Gold Medal, Pillsbury, and
> Kroger brand with equal results)
>
> Mix the dough ingredients like you would any type of yeast dough but
> do not knead. Refrigerate dough for 10 to 15 minutes. For the
> initially rolling be sure to use plenty of flour on your rolling
> surface, and I do mean plenty. Use a sifter or a shaker to evenly
> distribute the flour and make sure it's at least a sixteenth to an
> eighth of an inch thick on your work surface. Roll out dough to
> 10"X14". Place the block or slab of butter on one side of the
> rectangle and fold the other half over and seal the edges. Give the
> dough 4 three-folds making sure to brush away all traces of flour
> before folding the dough. Refrigerate the dough for 45 minutes to an
> hour between each turn. Chill dough at least 3 hours after completing
> the 4th turn. Roll dough out into a 10" X 20" rectangle. Cut into 8
> squares and then cut each square into two triangles. Stretch each
> triangle until all sides are the same length. Roll up and curve
> points inward to make a crescent shape. Place on baking pans that
> have been lightly sprayed with baking spray, or you can use parchment
> paper. Cover croissants with a towel and let them rise in a
> relatively cool spot so they're nice and puffy. Don't place them in a
> warm spot because the butter in them might get soft. Rising time may
> take several hours. Brush croissants with an egg wash before baking
> them.
>
> tip: After you get through rolling out the dough each time you can
> take a pastry brush and sweep up all the bench flour and re-use the
> next time you go to roll out the dough. You'll find that very little
> of the flour used to roll out the dough actually gets worked into the
> dough.


Thanks. I've got your recipe saved.


I'm thinking more about baking times and temperatures. If the
croissants are perfectly layered with butter and dough, then a higher
oven temperature and less time in the oven make sense. Since ours came
out more like bread, they were denser. It makes sense that they didn't
get baked in the center thoroughly.


--Lia

On Jun 29, 11:48Â*pm, " > wrote:
> On Jun 29, 9:02�pm, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > We now have a list of things to do differently next time. �They're all
> > to bring us closer to the BI recipe: �get the salt right, switch flours,
> > use the cuisinart instead of hand kneading, pay closer attention to
> > keeping the dough cold, check oven temperature. �Then, after we've done
> > all that, if we still don't like our results, we'll look for a different
> > recipe or more information.
>
> > For one thing, I'm not sure about the instructions given for the turns.
> > � It doesn't seem like it would produce enough layers. �I attended the
> > Culinary Institute 20 years ago and don't remember much, but I do have a
> > picture in my head of the turns being done differently.
>
> > Jim and I also have a question about the oven temperature. �In addition
> > to thinking that the croissants didn't taste right (probably due to the
> > lack of salt), they seemed underbaked to me, pasty or doughy in the
> > center when the outsides were browned. �They took longer than the
> > recipe's 18-22 minutes to bake.
>
> > Jim would solve the problem by putting the oven temp higher than 400
> > degrees. �I think that would make it worse, would make them burn on the
> > outside before the centers were cooked at all. �I'd lower the oven temp
> > to 350 and bake them longer. �I'm also thinking that we need larger
> > cookie sheets to bake them on so there's more room for air to circulate
> > between them. �Any thoughts?
>
> > Thanks to everyone who wrote.
>
> > --Lia
>
> The recipe I use says to bake the croissants at 425 degrees for 12 to
> 15 minutes. Â*It also says nothing about kneading the dough since the
> dough is basically kneaded when you do the turns. Â*The dough itself,
> without the butter, is a very soft and wet dough. Â*You have to use a
> LOT of flour when you roll it out initially but you want to make sure
> that the extra flour doesn't actually get worked into the dough. Â*If
> the dough is too stiff you end up with something that's close to a
> flaky biscuit rather than a croissant. Â*Here's the recipe.
>
> Butter roll-in
> 1 1/4 cups cold butter (I've use both unsalted and salted butter with
> equally good results. Â*In fact, I actually prefer the taste of salted
> butter)
> 3 tablespoons flour
>
> Beat butter and flour together until flour is thoroughly mixed in and
> the butter is plastic. Â*Shape into a 6- by 8- in rectangle. Â*Set aside
> in a cool spot.
>
> Dough:
> 1 pkg. active dry yeast
> 1 1/4 cups milk, heated to about 110 degrees
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> 1 1/2 teaspoons salt
> 2 7/8cups all-purpose flour ( I've used Gold Medal, Pillsbury, and
> Kroger brand with equal results)
>
> Mix the dough ingredients like you would any type of yeast dough but
> do not knead. Â*Refrigerate dough for 10 to 15 minutes. Â*For the
> initially rolling be sure to use plenty of flour on your rolling
> surface, and I do mean plenty. Use a sifter or a shaker to evenly
> distribute the flour and make sure it's at least a sixteenth to an
> eighth of an inch thick on your work surface. Â*Roll out dough to
> 10"X14". Â*Place the block or slab of butter on one side of the
> rectangle and fold the other half over and seal the edges. Â*Give the
> dough 4 three-folds making sure to brush away all traces of flour
> before folding the dough. Â*Refrigerate the dough for 45 minutes to an
> hour between each turn. Â*Chill dough at least 3 hours after completing
> the 4th turn. Â*Roll dough out into a 10" X 20" rectangle. Â*Cut into 8
> squares and then cut each square into two triangles. Â*Stretch each
> triangle until all sides are the same length. Â*Roll up and curve
> points inward to make a crescent shape. Â*Place on baking pans that
> have been lightly sprayed with baking spray, or you can use parchment
> paper. Â*Cover croissants with a towel and let them rise in a
> relatively cool spot so they're nice and puffy. Â*Don't place them in a
> warm spot because the butter in them might get soft. Â*Rising time may
> take several hours. Â*Brush croissants with an egg wash before baking
> them.
>
> tip: After you get through rolling out the dough each time you can
> take a pastry brush and sweep up all the bench flour and re-use the
> next time you go to roll out the dough. Â*You'll find that very little
> of the flour used to roll out the dough actually gets worked into the
> dough.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I forgot to mention that when you roll the dough out to do the turns
you roll it out to a 9"X17" rectangle.