Arri London wrote:

>
>
> Goomba wrote:
>>
>> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>> > Steve Pope wrote:
>> >>
>> >> My own guess is that general obesity, HFCS in particular, and a large
>> >> volume of prescription drugs that can cause diabetes are behind it.
>> >
>> >
>> > Which prescription drugs cause diabetes?
>> >
>> >
>> > --Lia
>> >
>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin anyway
>> as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
>> healing progress.
>
> Aha...that makes sense. While I was in hospital in 2007, I was being
> given insulin (in tiny doses). Never having had high blood sugar in my
> life (and still don't), assumed it was because of all the

Happened to me in 2001. During a three-week hospital stay I was getting
Prednisone. I saw a workup with 350 blood glucose. I asked what they
hell they were doing. "Oh, that's just the Prednisone; it'll come back
down when you go off it." Right. I had them take me off it right then.


--
Blinky
Is your ISP dropping Usenet?
Need a new feed?
http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

On Tue 01 Jul 2008 04:43:22p, Arri London told us...

>
>
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> On Tue 01 Jul 2008 09:49:20a, Goomba told us...
>>
>> > Julia Altshuler wrote:
>> >> Steve Pope wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> My own guess is that general obesity, HFCS in particular, and a
large
>> >>> volume of prescription drugs that can cause diabetes are behind it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Which prescription drugs cause diabetes?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --Lia
>> >>
>> > Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>> > temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>> > se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin
anyway
>> > as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
>> > healing progress.
>> >
>>
>> Is gestational diabetes more often temporary than permanent?
>>
>
>
> In the women I knew who had it, it was temporary. However it occurred
> during *each* pregnancy, so after the first one the medical team was
> forewarned.
>

Thanks, Arri.

What prompted me to ask was that Mary Tyler Moore developed what was
thought to be gestational diabetes when she was pregnant, but after
pregnancy it became permanent Type I. I wondered how often it occurred.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Tuesday, 07(VII)/01(I)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Canada Day
-------------------------------------------
Common sense can't be all that common
since so many people claim to not have any.
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 01 Jul 2008 09:49:20a, Goomba told us...
>
>> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>> Steve Pope wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My own guess is that general obesity, HFCS in particular, and a large
>>>> volume of prescription drugs that can cause diabetes are behind it.
>>>
>>> Which prescription drugs cause diabetes?
>>>
>>>
>>> --Lia
>>>
>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin anyway
>> as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
>> healing progress.
>>
>
> Is gestational diabetes more often temporary than permanent?
>

Usually temporaray.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Arri London wrote:
>
> Goomba wrote:
>> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>> Steve Pope wrote:
>>>> My own guess is that general obesity, HFCS in particular, and a large
>>>> volume of prescription drugs that can cause diabetes are behind it.
>>>
>>> Which prescription drugs cause diabetes?
>>>
>>>
>>> --Lia
>>>
>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin anyway
>> as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
>> healing progress.
>
> Aha...that makes sense. While I was in hospital in 2007, I was being
> given insulin (in tiny doses). Never having had high blood sugar in my
> life (and still don't), assumed it was because of all the
> glucose-containg drips administered. But there may have been other
> medicines administered that raised the blood glucose too. There was
> never a suggestion that diabetes was in the picture.

Right after I had the surgery for the ruptured colon, they were giving
me insulin, too. My blood glucose levels were over 300 and that is scary
for a person who has never had any problems with blood glucose numbers.
They said that often the trauma of severe illness or difficult surgery
will raise blood glucose levels.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 01 Jul 2008 04:43:22p, Arri London told us...
>
>>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Tue 01 Jul 2008 09:49:20a, Goomba told us...
>>>
>>>> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>>>> Steve Pope wrote:
>>>>>> My own guess is that general obesity, HFCS in particular, and a
> large
>>>>>> volume of prescription drugs that can cause diabetes are behind it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which prescription drugs cause diabetes?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --Lia
>>>>>
>>>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>>>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>>>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin
> anyway
>>>> as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
>>>> healing progress.
>>>>
>>> Is gestational diabetes more often temporary than permanent?
>>>
>>
>> In the women I knew who had it, it was temporary. However it occurred
>> during *each* pregnancy, so after the first one the medical team was
>> forewarned.
>>
>
> Thanks, Arri.
>
> What prompted me to ask was that Mary Tyler Moore developed what was
> thought to be gestational diabetes when she was pregnant, but after
> pregnancy it became permanent Type I. I wondered how often it occurred.
>
She might have had it before the pregnancy but it was only diagnosed
when she was carrying.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Tue 01 Jul 2008 05:56:36p, Janet Wilder told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Tue 01 Jul 2008 09:49:20a, Goomba told us...
>>
>>> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>>> Steve Pope wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My own guess is that general obesity, HFCS in particular, and a large
>>>>> volume of prescription drugs that can cause diabetes are behind it.
>>>>
>>>> Which prescription drugs cause diabetes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --Lia
>>>>
>>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin anyway
>>> as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
>>> healing progress.
>>>
>>
>> Is gestational diabetes more often temporary than permanent?
>>
>
> Usually temporaray.
>

Thanks, Janet.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Tuesday, 07(VII)/01(I)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Canada Day
-------------------------------------------
It's always easier to just fall than
to try to climb.
-------------------------------------------

On Tue 01 Jul 2008 06:00:50p, Janet Wilder told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Tue 01 Jul 2008 04:43:22p, Arri London told us...
>>
>>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Tue 01 Jul 2008 09:49:20a, Goomba told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>>>>> Steve Pope wrote:
>>>>>>> My own guess is that general obesity, HFCS in particular, and a
>>>>>>> large volume of prescription drugs that can cause diabetes are
>>>>>>> behind it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which prescription drugs cause diabetes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Lia
>>>>>>
>>>>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>>>>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes"
per
>>>>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin
>>>>> anyway as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection
>>>>> and help healing progress.
>>>>>
>>>> Is gestational diabetes more often temporary than permanent?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In the women I knew who had it, it was temporary. However it occurred
>>> during *each* pregnancy, so after the first one the medical team was
>>> forewarned.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Arri.
>>
>> What prompted me to ask was that Mary Tyler Moore developed what was
>> thought to be gestational diabetes when she was pregnant, but after
>> pregnancy it became permanent Type I. I wondered how often it occurred.
>>
> She might have had it before the pregnancy but it was only diagnosed
> when she was carrying.
>

Aha! Hadn't thought of that.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Tuesday, 07(VII)/01(I)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Canada Day
-------------------------------------------
It's always easier to just fall than
to try to climb.
-------------------------------------------

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Goomba wrote:
>>
>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin
>> anyway as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection
>> and help healing progress.
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
> Other than poison ivy, what are steroids used to treat?
>
>
> --Lia
>
too many things to name!
Asthma, allergic reactions, organ rejection, skin conditions, loss of
appetite, swelling from injury (spinal cord, for example)...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>
> Is gestational diabetes more often temporary than permanent?
>
Usually temporary during the pregnancy but women who have experienced it
have a higher rate of having it reappear later in life.

Steve Pope wrote:

> As I understand it, gestational and steroid-induced diabetes
> are very similar processes and both are more likely than not
> to be temporary. But they are both considered actual diabetes.
>
> Steve

No, we don't consider raised blood sugars from steroids to be diabetes.

On Tue 01 Jul 2008 07:56:19p, Goomba told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>>
>> Is gestational diabetes more often temporary than permanent?
>>
> Usually temporary during the pregnancy but women who have experienced it
> have a higher rate of having it reappear later in life.

Thanks, Goomba...

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Tuesday, 07(VII)/01(I)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Canada Day
-------------------------------------------
The meek will inherit the earth; the
rest of us will go to the stars.
-------------------------------------------

Arri London wrote:

>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin anyway
>> as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
>> healing progress.
>
> Aha...that makes sense. While I was in hospital in 2007, I was being
> given insulin (in tiny doses). Never having had high blood sugar in my
> life (and still don't), assumed it was because of all the
> glucose-containg drips administered. But there may have been other
> medicines administered that raised the blood glucose too. There was
> never a suggestion that diabetes was in the picture.

It could have been given to help lower your serum potassium level!
Insulin carries potassium into the cells and we often use it for this
aspect. Or the constant dextrose containing IV fluids some folks are
getting, certain drugs, or the unusual (unnatural) way some folks
require feeding just causes their blood levels to remain elevated more
than normal so we treat it. I have a lot more fun titrating continuous
insulin infusions (tweaking) than injecting it in folks and waiting for
the response.
We like to keep folks between 70-110 for optimum healing.

Goomba > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> As I understand it, gestational and steroid-induced diabetes
>> are very similar processes and both are more likely than not
>> to be temporary. But they are both considered actual diabetes.

>No, we don't consider raised blood sugars from steroids to be diabetes.

Interesting. Thanks.

Steve

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> What prompted me to ask was that Mary Tyler Moore developed what was
> thought to be gestational diabetes when she was pregnant, but after
> pregnancy it became permanent Type I. I wondered how often it occurred.
>
Remember that in the past, up to about age 35, developing full blown
diabetes was called "Juvenile Diabetes". She was young when she had her
baby and her body obviously reacted by halting ALL insulin production,
I'm assuming?

Most adults (particularly obese) get type 2 diabetes whch means they
still make insulin but either not enough or their body has lost its
receptiveness to it.
For some losing weight increases insulin receptors on the cells, so you
can use more of the insulin you still make. Others need drugs to help
the pancreas kick out more insulin.

On Tue 01 Jul 2008 08:12:20p, Goomba told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> What prompted me to ask was that Mary Tyler Moore developed what was
>> thought to be gestational diabetes when she was pregnant, but after
>> pregnancy it became permanent Type I. I wondered how often it occurred.
>>
> Remember that in the past, up to about age 35, developing full blown
> diabetes was called "Juvenile Diabetes". She was young when she had her
> baby and her body obviously reacted by halting ALL insulin production,
> I'm assuming?
>
> Most adults (particularly obese) get type 2 diabetes whch means they
> still make insulin but either not enough or their body has lost its
> receptiveness to it.
> For some losing weight increases insulin receptors on the cells, so you
> can use more of the insulin you still make. Others need drugs to help
> the pancreas kick out more insulin.

I didn't know those details about "Juvenile Diabetes". I have type 2
myself. When my weight was down to almost normal, I was off all
medications. Now that I've gained some back, I'm on low doses of glyburide
and metformin. Working to get that weight back down. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Tuesday, 07(VII)/01(I)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Today is: Canada Day
-------------------------------------------
Everyone out there is someone else's
lunch. --Mike Niebuhr
-------------------------------------------

Steve Pope wrote:
> Goomba > wrote:
>
>> Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> As I understand it, gestational and steroid-induced diabetes
>>> are very similar processes and both are more likely than not
>>> to be temporary. But they are both considered actual diabetes.
>
>> No, we don't consider raised blood sugars from steroids to be diabetes.
>
> Interesting. Thanks.
>
> Steve

Let me add the addendum that I mean the "temporary" raised blood sugars
from short term steroid use.

Janet Wilder wrote:
>
> bronchial and other breathing problems, joint pains, severe allergic
> reactions...


Joint pains like arthritis, bone spurs, sciatica?


--Lia

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:16:16 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote:

>Janet Wilder > wrote:
>
>>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>>> Goomba wrote:
>
>>>> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
>>>> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
>>>> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin
>>>> anyway as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection
>>>> and help healing progress.
>
>>> Thanks for the info.
>>> Other than poison ivy, what are steroids used to treat?
>
>>bronchial and other breathing problems, joint pains, severe allergic
>>reactions...
>
>Gout.
>
>The induced diabetes may or may not be temporary. It may
>be a small risk, but given the huge volume of steroid prescriptions
>(and non-prescriptions) it is not beyond the realm of belief
>that they are adding to diabetes incidence.
>
>Steve

still, i think it might be more accurate to say 'causes diabetes-like
symptoms' than 'causes diabetes.' the latter sounds quack-ish.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

blake murphy > wrote:

>On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:16:16 +0000 (UTC), (Steve

>>The induced diabetes may or may not be temporary. It may
>>be a small risk, but given the huge volume of steroid prescriptions
>>(and non-prescriptions) it is not beyond the realm of belief
>>that they are adding to diabetes incidence.

>still, i think it might be more accurate to say 'causes diabetes-like
>symptoms' than 'causes diabetes.' the latter sounds quack-ish.

As I understand it, some amount of permanent diabetes (that meets
the diagnostic criteria for diabetes) is caused by steroids.
So I don't think it's quackish at all.

Steve

Goomba wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
>
> >> Steroids raise the blood sugar, but with *most* folks it is just
> >> temporary as they don't take them routinely. This isn't "diabetes" per
> >> se, but in the hospital we'll often treat them with some insulin anyway
> >> as evidence is that controlled blood sugars lessen infection and help
> >> healing progress.
> >
> > Aha...that makes sense. While I was in hospital in 2007, I was being
> > given insulin (in tiny doses). Never having had high blood sugar in my
> > life (and still don't), assumed it was because of all the
> > glucose-containg drips administered. But there may have been other
> > medicines administered that raised the blood glucose too. There was
> > never a suggestion that diabetes was in the picture.
>
> It could have been given to help lower your serum potassium level!

What would have driven that up? They were giving me salt (NaCl) tablets
as well.

> Insulin carries potassium into the cells and we often use it for this
> aspect. Or the constant dextrose containing IV fluids some folks are
> getting, certain drugs, or the unusual (unnatural) way some folks
> require feeding just causes their blood levels to remain elevated more
> than normal so we treat it. I have a lot more fun titrating continuous
> insulin infusions (tweaking) than injecting it in folks and waiting for
> the response.
> We like to keep folks between 70-110 for optimum healing.

Never saw the numbers, so couldn't tell you what they were at the time.
But it was 4x per day, along with many other mystery pills I can't
remember now LOL. One wasn't a mystery: miserable stool softener several
times a day. The effects of *that* lasted well after I was discharged

Arri London wrote:
>
> What would have driven that up? They were giving me salt (NaCl) tablets
> as well.

Potassium can get elevated by many things but commonly if you have renal
disease where the kidneys forget whether to pee out potassium or hang on
to it, or trauma patients where cells are damaged which causes a release
the electrolyte contents into the serum where it can cause problems.
Potassium is meant to be in highest levels within cells, not outside.
And can very easily send you into cardiac arrest if you're given (or
build up) too much.

As for sodium, which is found mostly outside of cells rather than inside
with potassium -in fact the neat little "sodium-potassium pump" in your
cells work to keep the balance levels right. Some drugs (Lithium, for
example) requires a "full salt diet" and you don't want those folks to
limit their intake at all; and certain other diseases can screw up the
sodium level in your blood so they probably wanted you to have some to
top up your tank. Some folks lose sodium because of disease. One thing
to remember is that in the body "water follows salt". So a sodium level
is always going to tell me about you fluid level on board.

> Never saw the numbers, so couldn't tell you what they were at the time.
> But it was 4x per day, along with many other mystery pills I can't
> remember now LOL. One wasn't a mystery: miserable stool softener several
> times a day. The effects of *that* lasted well after I was discharged

Sorry dude, but sometimes the cure IS better than the disease/disorder
For some folks the mere rise in their intrathoracic pressure while they
strain, can be seriously life threatening. Or it may just be a comfort
measure to compensate for the slower gastric motility when on pain meds
or to not strain against new surgical repaired tissues.... handy stuff.

I'm glad you're all better now...(right?)

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:44:13 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote:

>blake murphy > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:16:16 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
>
>>>The induced diabetes may or may not be temporary. It may
>>>be a small risk, but given the huge volume of steroid prescriptions
>>>(and non-prescriptions) it is not beyond the realm of belief
>>>that they are adding to diabetes incidence.
>
>>still, i think it might be more accurate to say 'causes diabetes-like
>>symptoms' than 'causes diabetes.' the latter sounds quack-ish.
>
>As I understand it, some amount of permanent diabetes (that meets
>the diagnostic criteria for diabetes) is caused by steroids.
>So I don't think it's quackish at all.
>
>Steve

i'm skeptical about that.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

blake murphy > wrote:

>On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:44:13 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
>Pope) wrote:

>>As I understand it, some amount of permanent diabetes (that meets
>>the diagnostic criteria for diabetes) is caused by steroids.
>>So I don't think it's quackish at all.

>i'm skeptical about that.

You could be less skeptical by googling on "Steroid induced
diabetes" and finding that it's pretty common, and often
permanent.

Steve

Goomba wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> >
> > What would have driven that up? They were giving me salt (NaCl) tablets
> > as well.
>
> Potassium can get elevated by many things but commonly if you have renal
> disease where the kidneys forget whether to pee out potassium or hang on
> to it, or trauma patients where cells are damaged which causes a release
> the electrolyte contents into the serum where it can cause problems.
> Potassium is meant to be in highest levels within cells, not outside.
> And can very easily send you into cardiac arrest if you're given (or
> build up) too much.

Nods...the biochemistry is familiar to me but not in a clinical setting
LOL. Still thinking it was really an intolerance to all the sugars in
the drips (and myriad other injectables). Kidneys are fine at last
count.

>
> As for sodium, which is found mostly outside of cells rather than inside
> with potassium -in fact the neat little "sodium-potassium pump" in your
> cells work to keep the balance levels right. Some drugs (Lithium, for
> example) requires a "full salt diet" and you don't want those folks to
> limit their intake at all; and certain other diseases can screw up the
> sodium level in your blood so they probably wanted you to have some to
> top up your tank. Some folks lose sodium because of disease. One thing
> to remember is that in the body "water follows salt". So a sodium level
> is always going to tell me about you fluid level on board.

Normally have a rather low-sodium diet; just works out that way, no
clinical reason. It was hot weather at the time; perhaps just sodium
depletion from the vast volumes of liquids administered over a
relatively short time period. I objected to the tablets and instead
promised to salt the meals given more generously. Apparently that
worked; no take-home instructions to increase the sodium.
>
> > Never saw the numbers, so couldn't tell you what they were at the time.
> > But it was 4x per day, along with many other mystery pills I can't
> > remember now LOL. One wasn't a mystery: miserable stool softener several
> > times a day. The effects of *that* lasted well after I was discharged
>
> Sorry dude, but sometimes the cure IS better than the disease/disorder
> For some folks the mere rise in their intrathoracic pressure while they
> strain, can be seriously life threatening. Or it may just be a comfort
> measure to compensate for the slower gastric motility when on pain meds
> or to not strain against new surgical repaired tissues.... handy stuff.

LOL they are handed out like sweets sometimes. Maybe just routine
procedure.
>
> I'm glad you're all better now...(right?)

More or less, TY. Permanent side effects that I could really do without,
but that is always the luck of the draw in medicine in any case.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:15:16 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote:

>blake murphy > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:44:13 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
>>Pope) wrote:
>
>>>As I understand it, some amount of permanent diabetes (that meets
>>>the diagnostic criteria for diabetes) is caused by steroids.
>>>So I don't think it's quackish at all.
>
>>i'm skeptical about that.
>
>You could be less skeptical by googling on "Steroid induced
>diabetes" and finding that it's pretty common, and often
>permanent.
>
>Steve

the first page of hits had nothing about diabetes symptoms persisting
after *stopping* steroid treatment, so i remain skeptical.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **