We're re-doing the kitchen.
My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
narrow cabinets hung over the space.
I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?

We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?

The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way too
dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of
the old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to.
I'm going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they have
a market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors alone,
being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:35:50 -0400, Goomba > wrote:

>We're re-doing the kitchen.
>My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
>it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
>We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>
I did it the other way around. On the wall where the refrigerator went
I made the lower and full-height cabinets 30" deep so I could inset a
standard unit. One advantage turned out I could put an appliance garage
along that whole wall, flush with the upper cabinets, and still have 18"
of counter space in front.

On Jun 26, 4:35�pm, Goomba > wrote:
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
> them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>
> The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
> pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
> sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
> down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way too
> dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of
> the old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to.
> I'm going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they have
> a market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors alone,
> being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?

Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry... the crap they
produce these days can't compare. And there are all sorts of internal
organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
can install them yourself). And, btw, just when you build custom
cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
window.

Robert Klute wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:35:50 -0400, Goomba > wrote:
>
>> We're re-doing the kitchen.
>> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
>> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>>
>> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>> them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>>
> I did it the other way around. On the wall where the refrigerator went
> I made the lower and full-height cabinets 30" deep so I could inset a
> standard unit. One advantage turned out I could put an appliance garage
> along that whole wall, flush with the upper cabinets, and still have 18"
> of counter space in front.

Interesting!
What did you use for your counters?

Sheldon wrote:

> Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
> perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry...

That's how I feel about it too, but do not have the vision, energy or
desire to hobble it together. Whomever built these cupboards was
brilliant at construction, but did a lousy job utilizing space. Lots of
blind corners, wasted soffit area and other areas of wasted space.


>the crap they produce these days can't compare.

Yet they have features that were unheard of when these originals were
built.

> And there are all sorts of internal
> organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
> can install them yourself).

The ones I've seen work, yet don't necessarily provide enough new
storage for my needs. I have some already.

And, btw, just when you build custom
> cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
> A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.

We were told 2 inches was all most manufacturers require. My husband
prefers the entire side open, which also allows him to wiggle the fridge
out and back easily.

> There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
> starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
> ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
> window.

We need better lighting, the windows are fine (new!) I can't wait to
have a single tall spigot that also turns into the sprayer, instead of
the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances we
must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
feel closed in over my range in any way.

Goomba wrote:
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?


I'd be more worried about the motor overheating with no way to
vent the heat if it were very closed-in.

gloria p

Goomba wrote:
>
> I can't wait to have a single tall spigot that also turns into the
> sprayer, instead of the small annoying sprayer which is separate
> now.

Um, you're going to need a much younger husband. hehe

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:35:50 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?

You have to realize that "cabinet depth" appliances will reduce your
storage. A standard refrigerator has depth, i.e. MORE space. But
what you can do is set your regular appliances, (dramatically less
expensive than cabinet depth), and have your cabinet man/person, set
the cabinets in line with those appliances. I am guessing the ONLY
cabinet depth appliance you are concerned with is refrigeration. The
rest of kitchen appliances all fall in regular line.

Next good bet....find the BEST kitchen desinger in your area. They
can save you thousands in costs.

Goomba wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
>> perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry...
>
> That's how I feel about it too, but do not have the vision, energy or
> desire to hobble it together. Whomever built these cupboards was
> brilliant at construction, but did a lousy job utilizing space. Lots of
> blind corners, wasted soffit area and other areas of wasted space.
>
>
>> the crap they produce these days can't compare.
>
> Yet they have features that were unheard of when these originals were
> built.
>
>> And there are all sorts of internal
>> organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
>> can install them yourself).
>
> The ones I've seen work, yet don't necessarily provide enough new
> storage for my needs. I have some already.
>
> And, btw, just when you build custom
>> cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
>> A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
>
> We were told 2 inches was all most manufacturers require. My husband
> prefers the entire side open, which also allows him to wiggle the fridge
> out and back easily.
>
>> There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
>> starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
>> ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
>> window.
>
> We need better lighting, the windows are fine (new!) I can't wait to
> have a single tall spigot that also turns into the sprayer, instead of
> the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances we
> must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
> exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
> owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
> feel closed in over my range in any way.
>
>
Unless you live in a cold climate don't get a range hood/exhaust fan
that exhausts back into the kitchen. They can warm up a kitchen by
several degrees. On our remodel I went for a hood and vented it up and
out through the roof. Also dispense kitchen/cooking odors more effectively.

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 02:53:28p, George Shirley told us...

> Goomba wrote:
>> Sheldon wrote:
>>
>>> Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
>>> perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry...
>>
>> That's how I feel about it too, but do not have the vision, energy or
>> desire to hobble it together. Whomever built these cupboards was
>> brilliant at construction, but did a lousy job utilizing space. Lots of
>> blind corners, wasted soffit area and other areas of wasted space.
>>
>>
>>> the crap they produce these days can't compare.
>>
>> Yet they have features that were unheard of when these originals were
>> built.
>>
>>> And there are all sorts of internal
>>> organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
>>> can install them yourself).
>>
>> The ones I've seen work, yet don't necessarily provide enough new
>> storage for my needs. I have some already.
>>
>> And, btw, just when you build custom
>>> cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
>>> A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
>>
>> We were told 2 inches was all most manufacturers require. My husband
>> prefers the entire side open, which also allows him to wiggle the fridge
>> out and back easily.
>>
>>> There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
>>> starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
>>> ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
window.
>>
>> We need better lighting, the windows are fine (new!) I can't wait to
>> have a single tall spigot that also turns into the sprayer, instead of
>> the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances we
>> must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
>> exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
>> owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
>> feel closed in over my range in any way.
>>
>>
> Unless you live in a cold climate don't get a range hood/exhaust fan
> that exhausts back into the kitchen. They can warm up a kitchen by
> several degrees. On our remodel I went for a hood and vented it up and
> out through the roof. Also dispense kitchen/cooking odors more
effectively.
>

Our over the range microwave/exhaust fan exhausts to the outside. Most
models are capable of being vented either way, as recirculating our outside
vent/.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
When the going gets weird, the weird
turn pro.
-------------------------------------------

George Shirley wrote:

> Unless you live in a cold climate don't get a range hood/exhaust fan
> that exhausts back into the kitchen. They can warm up a kitchen by
> several degrees. On our remodel I went for a hood and vented it up and
> out through the roof. Also dispense kitchen/cooking odors more effectively.

Our current vent exhausts to the outside, so we'll just reuse that same
stack I believe?
I would never waste my time just recirculating the air back into the
kitchen. Ugh.

Goomba wrote:
> We're re-doing the kitchen.

For what it's worth, in today's mail I got Consumer Reports.
Your Dream Kitchen for Less. Might be worth a look.

nancy

Goomba wrote:

> the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances
> we must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with
> built in exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model.
> I've never owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I
> do not want to feel closed in over my range in any way.

It's not a closed in feeling, but they don't make for very good
vents, either. It's worth it to me because I don't have another
place I want the microwave to go, but you might feel differently.

nancy

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:05:01 -0400, Goomba > wrote:

>Robert Klute wrote:
>> I did it the other way around. On the wall where the refrigerator went
>> I made the lower and full-height cabinets 30" deep so I could inset a
>> standard unit. One advantage turned out I could put an appliance garage
>> along that whole wall, flush with the upper cabinets, and still have 18"
>> of counter space in front.
>
>Interesting!
>What did you use for your counters?

Granite slab. There are lots of wholesalers and independent finishers
clustered around them in my area, so it wasn't 'that' expensive.
However, any surface is workable, even standard 24" goods, as any seam
would be right under the garage doors and not noticeable.

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> We're re-doing the kitchen.

We're about to begin a 3-week kitchen renovation/remodeling project (start
date is a week from Monday) that will involve knocking down two walls and
installing new cabinets, countertops, backsplash, island, sink, lighting,
and flooring. Our kitchen is in desperate need of updating, so we're really
looking forward to the end result. (Note to self: remember to take "before"
pics next week...) The contractor we're using is top-rated and comes *very*
highly-recommended.

Good luck with your project!

Mary

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:03:06 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon >
wrote:

>On Jun 26, 4:35?pm, Goomba > wrote:
>> We're re-doing the kitchen.
>> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
>> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>>
>> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>> them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>>
I think they are wonderful because I want to see everything I have in
the refrigerator without moving layers to see the back of the shelf.

>> The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
>> pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
>> sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
>> down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way too
>> dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of
>> the old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to.
>> I'm going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they have
>> a market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors alone,
>> being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?
>
>Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
>perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry... the crap they
>produce these days can't compare. And there are all sorts of internal
>organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
>can install them yourself). And, btw, just when you build custom
>cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
>A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
>There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
>starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
>ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
>window.

I have to agree. There are companies that can come in a rehabilitate
old cabinets. It's a shame to throw them out. I have custom cabinets
too and I'm going to the HGTV thing, plus calling in a cabinet company
to do an interior make over. This is just a compromise. What I want
is a complete redo where work areas are redesigned and switched. We
don't belong to that economic strata - this is an expensive area where
the building code is strictly enforced and you have to get permits for
every little thing, so it's not going to happen.

OTOH: My kids made crap cabinets in crappy kitchens look wonderful.
They also painted the walls and put in new appliances, lighting and
countertops - the floors come next.

IMO: A cabinet makeover really does wonders. All it takes is a little
paint. Goomba doesn't even have to begin with crappy cabinets.

AFAIC: If people don't plan on changing the basic layout, they need
to think about working creatively with what they have.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

In our last kitchen the frig was framed in. I loved it. It was a side by
side and was easy to get in both sides.

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike it
> for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on them?
> I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>
> The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
> pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
> sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
> down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way too
> dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of the
> old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to. I'm
> going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they have a
> market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors alone,
> being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?

"Goomba" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike it
> for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?

Weigh this opinion with the info that refrigerators here are 24" wide and
24" deep. What I would give for a deeper fridge! Party platter? You joke!
Even a large bird can be a problem, because yes, you can probably get it in
there, but what to do with all the displaced items? And remember that door
shelves intrude into that space, too.

I have never minded a nice sturdy fridge that looks like a frisge, but
during my design career used a lot of the dressed ones. There are people to
whom an undressed appliance is like having a toilet in the kitchen.

What I am really liking right now are the Thirties and Fifties looking
fridges that are all 21st century inside. I get fridge lust when I see
them.

Gloria P wrote:
> Goomba wrote:
>> We're re-doing the kitchen.
>> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or
>> dislike it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
>
> I'd be more worried about the motor overheating with no way to
> vent the heat if it were very closed-in.
>
> gloria p


Not to mention, how easy will it be to pull out from the enclosed space if
necessary?

Jill

Nancy Young wrote:
> Goomba wrote:
>> We're re-doing the kitchen.
>
> For what it's worth, in today's mail I got Consumer Reports.
> Your Dream Kitchen for Less. Might be worth a look.
>
> nancy

oh goodie! My copy should probably arrive today then.
I rarely make large purchase decisions without referring to CR. They've
never steered me wrong.

Nancy Young wrote:

> It's not a closed in feeling, but they don't make for very good
> vents, either. It's worth it to me because I don't have another
> place I want the microwave to go, but you might feel differently.
>
> nancy

Now that seriously disappoints me
Do you recall if there was any size or power option to improve venting?
Which brand or model do you own?

Robert Klute wrote:

> Granite slab. There are lots of wholesalers and independent finishers
> clustered around them in my area, so it wasn't 'that' expensive.
> However, any surface is workable, even standard 24" goods, as any seam
> would be right under the garage doors and not noticeable.
>

I recently saw mention on HGTV about kitchen cabinets made "green" by
the use of recycled paper in the construction. Hmmmmmmmm? I'd love to
see that material.

Here is the granite we chose- http://www.sensagranite.com/
The coloration of the slab with the cut open pear on top on the home
page is the one I chose. It is called Floresta Verde.

MareCat wrote:

> We're about to begin a 3-week kitchen renovation/remodeling project (start
> date is a week from Monday) that will involve knocking down two walls and
> installing new cabinets, countertops, backsplash, island, sink, lighting,
> and flooring. Our kitchen is in desperate need of updating, so we're really
> looking forward to the end result. (Note to self: remember to take "before"
> pics next week...) The contractor we're using is top-rated and comes *very*
> highly-recommended.
>
> Good luck with your project!
>
> Mary

Oh cool Thankfully we're not altering the footprint of the existing
kitchen, except that new cabinets will end up about 3 inches further
over on one area.
<makes note to take before pics like Mary>
I'd love to know what brands, patterns, colors, etc you've chosen.
(Email if you prefer) I still have room to steal ideas and include them!
Picking cabinet woods and finishes was painful. I hate decisions. I like
limited options and then I don't fret so about making the wrong
(expensive) move!
Good luck to BOTH of us, eh!?

sf wrote:

> I think they are wonderful because I want to see everything I have in
> the refrigerator without moving layers to see the back of the shelf.

Can you recall how many cubic feet yours is? Brand? Door config?
Just putting stainless steel on it jacks up the price, I noticed. And
that water/ice spout on the door is extortion too, lol.

news.albasani.net wrote:
> In our last kitchen the frig was framed in. I loved it. It was a side
> by side and was easy to get in both sides.
>
How much trouble was it to get it pulled out for cleaning or repairs,
etc?? Do you use the storage above it often?

Giusi wrote:

> What I am really liking right now are the Thirties and Fifties looking
> fridges that are all 21st century inside. I get fridge lust when I see
> them.
>
>
Oh oh oh! I just saw an advertisement in a kitchen re-do magazine with
those. Straight out of the fifties and in turquoise. I wonder what they
sell for?

Goomba wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> It's not a closed in feeling, but they don't make for very good
>> vents, either. It's worth it to me because I don't have another
>> place I want the microwave to go, but you might feel differently.

> Now that seriously disappoints me
> Do you recall if there was any size or power option to improve
> venting? Which brand or model do you own?

You'll see in the magazine, they say that none of them
make for good vents. I think mine's a Caloric, I'm not sure,
it doesn't matter because it's about 13 years old now. Still
going, but I have it in my mind it's the next thing to go.

nancy

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:35:43 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>Here is the granite we chose- http://www.sensagranite.com/
>The coloration of the slab with the cut open pear on top on the home
>page is the one I chose. It is called Floresta Verde.

Very pretty!


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:17:04 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>The only appliances we
>must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
>exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
>owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
>feel closed in over my range in any way.

Is there any way you can get a real fan in there.... the kind that's
vented outside?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:01:18 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>Our over the range microwave/exhaust fan exhausts to the outside. Most
>models are capable of being vented either way, as recirculating our outside
>vent/.

aha. Didn't know. How powerful is it?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:42:15 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>sf wrote:
>
>> I think they are wonderful because I want to see everything I have in
>> the refrigerator without moving layers to see the back of the shelf.
>
>Can you recall how many cubic feet yours is? Brand? Door config?

I don't have one (my refrigerator space can't be widened - which is
only one of many reasons why I want a real kitchen remodel not just a
facelift), but a friend has sub zero. Amana and a couple other brands
make sub zero copies now, so it would be a good idea to get out there
and look around. Also, they are putting so much storage on the doors
now, it's like having a regular shelf on there.

>Just putting stainless steel on it jacks up the price, I noticed. And
>that water/ice spout on the door is extortion too, lol.

Mine is brushed aluminum, GE Profile - no dispenser (wouldn't want
that option if it was a choice). Come to think of it, our
refrigerators are always GE.

*My* dream refrigerator would have "french doors" and be counter
depth, but what I live with is a single door, bottom drawer model.
Some of the interior depth is gone because the door shelves are deep,
but it's a compromise. The freezer portion is very easy to find
things in because it has a basket I can push back to get to the bottom
layer.
http://hookedonhouses.files.wordpres...frigerator.jpe




--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

sf wrote:
>
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:42:15 -0400, Goomba >
> wrote:
>
> >sf wrote:
> >
> >> I think they are wonderful because I want to see everything I have in
> >> the refrigerator without moving layers to see the back of the shelf.
> >
> >Can you recall how many cubic feet yours is? Brand? Door config?
>
> I don't have one (my refrigerator space can't be widened - which is
> only one of many reasons why I want a real kitchen remodel not just a
> facelift), but a friend has sub zero. Amana and a couple other brands
> make sub zero copies now, so it would be a good idea to get out there
> and look around. Also, they are putting so much storage on the doors
> now, it's like having a regular shelf on there.
>
> >Just putting stainless steel on it jacks up the price, I noticed. And
> >that water/ice spout on the door is extortion too, lol.
>
> Mine is brushed aluminum, GE Profile - no dispenser (wouldn't want
> that option if it was a choice). Come to think of it, our
> refrigerators are always GE.
>
> *My* dream refrigerator would have "french doors" and be counter
> depth, but what I live with is a single door, bottom drawer model.
> Some of the interior depth is gone because the door shelves are deep,
> but it's a compromise. The freezer portion is very easy to find
> things in because it has a basket I can push back to get to the bottom
> layer.
> http://hookedonhouses.files.wordpres...frigerator.jpe
>
> --


It might also be a good idea to reference Consumer Reports for their
takes on the various makes and models of kitchen appliances. IIRC, they
had descriptions and ratings (good & bad) about kitchen remodeling with
regard to appliances, counter tops, floorings, etc. I believe the
particular issue about kitchen remodeling was within the past two or
three years, but I'd have to do some research to find the actual
issue(s). Hopefully, I haven't remembered incorrectly ;/

Sky

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice

Goomba > wrote:

> the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances we
> must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
> exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
> owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
> feel closed in over my range in any way.

I'd recommend against the microwave over the range setup. Recently I took
a tour of the model kitchens on the Virginia Tech campus. The woman
giving the tour literally wrote the book on kitchen design, a textbook
that is used in teaching kitchen design at the college level. Anyway,
they had 6 or 7 example kitchens set up and only one had the microwave
over range which she specifically said was there as a bad example.

The microwave vents are generally not powerful enough, and then if the
microwave breaks you lose your vent until it's fixed or replaced and
there is no guarantee you'll find one that matches the space where
the old one was. If you have no other space for the microwave, then
it's better than nothing, but a dedicated vent will almost always
be better.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:47:28 +0100, Janet Baraclough
> wrote:
>
> Can someone please tell what Americans mean by "great room" ? What's
>the difference between a living room and a great room?
>
I think it's a room where living and eating are combined. Not sure
though. The few people I know who have open floor plans don't use
that term. Maybe it's a regional thing.

> The first time I saw the phrase I thought "great" meant big, but the
>measurements of the "great room" alluded to, were decidedly not.
>
I dunno. I thought great meant big too.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Janet Baraclough > wrote:

> Can someone please tell what Americans mean by "great room" ? What's
> the difference between a living room and a great room?

> The first time I saw the phrase I thought "great" meant big, but the
> measurements of the "great room" alluded to, were decidedly not.

Usually what they mean is a room with a very high ceiling, up to
2 stories high, sometimes with a loft overlooking, and that combines
more than one function, like living and dining rooms.

The high ceiling seems to be the consistent element in this area.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

On Fri 27 Jun 2008 07:18:43a, sf told us...

> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:01:18 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>Our over the range microwave/exhaust fan exhausts to the outside. Most
>>models are capable of being vented either way, as recirculating our
>>outside vent/.
>
> aha. Didn't know. How powerful is it?
>
>

I can't give you the CFM, as my manual isn't handy. However, I have no
problem with it. The only disadvantage with this type of unit is that it
doesn't extend far enough away from the wall to fully cover the front
burners.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 06(VI)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
In silence man can most readily
preserve his integrity. - M. Eckhart
-------------------------------------------

wrote:

> I'd recommend against the microwave over the range setup. Recently I took
> a tour of the model kitchens on the Virginia Tech campus. The woman
> giving the tour literally wrote the book on kitchen design, a textbook
> that is used in teaching kitchen design at the college level. Anyway,
> they had 6 or 7 example kitchens set up and only one had the microwave
> over range which she specifically said was there as a bad example.
>
> The microwave vents are generally not powerful enough, and then if the
> microwave breaks you lose your vent until it's fixed or replaced and
> there is no guarantee you'll find one that matches the space where
> the old one was. If you have no other space for the microwave, then
> it's better than nothing, but a dedicated vent will almost always
> be better.


I hate to hear this.
I really don't want to lose counter space to the microwave oven anymore,
and the cabinets have been organized and planned to the point I don't
want to go back to re-plan it again. Aren't there ANY decent
vent/microwave brands!??!?! AAaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggg!!

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Fri 27 Jun 2008 07:18:43a, sf told us...
>
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:01:18 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Our over the range microwave/exhaust fan exhausts to the outside. Most
>>> models are capable of being vented either way, as recirculating our
>>> outside vent/.
>> aha. Didn't know. How powerful is it?
>>
>>
>
> I can't give you the CFM, as my manual isn't handy. However, I have no
> problem with it. The only disadvantage with this type of unit is that it
> doesn't extend far enough away from the wall to fully cover the front
> burners.
>
You make me recall old kitchen exhausts that were round and on the wall
or something. I think you pulled the string and it whirrrled on? And
some pricey ranges have downward vents, right? I'm going to have to look
and see what other exhaust fan vents exist and maybe we can use that and
leave the microwave up there just as a microwave?

> We chose the Blue Pearl granite http://www.sensagranite.com/products.php?
> stone=granite which we love. The Floresta Verde is gorgeous too but the
> Blue Pearl is better suited to the colors we're using. White cabinetry,
> smoke grey porcelain flooring and brushed nickle hardware.
>
> Michael
>

I have a dumb question... what is porcelain flooring?

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
>>...................................
>>
>> The microwave vents are generally not powerful enough, and then if the
>> microwave breaks you lose your vent until it's fixed or replaced and
>> there is no guarantee you'll find one that matches the space where
>> the old one was. If you have no other space for the microwave, then
>> it's better than nothing, but a dedicated vent will almost always be
>> better.
>
>
> I hate to hear this.
> I really don't want to lose counter space to the microwave oven anymore,
> and the cabinets have been organized and planned to the point I don't want
> to go back to re-plan it again. Aren't there ANY decent vent/microwave
> brands!??!?! AAaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggg!!
===
The Whirlpool Gold Velos has one of the most powerful vents in an
over-the-range micro unit. It has generally excellent reviews:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02282123000P