Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
get some unadulterated lard soon.
--
Jean B.

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 04:21:34p, Jean B. told us...

> Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
> thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
> possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
> get some unadulterated lard soon.

Unfortunately, it won't help you, Jean, but we have an excellent source for
fresh unadulterated lard. There's a store in Queen Creek, AZ, call "The
Pork Shop" where every conceivable type of pork product can be had. It's a
small privately owned store and their fresh pork comes from surrounding
farms. We used to live in Queen Creek, but now it's about a 22 mile drive
from where we live. Definitely worth the trip. I buy almost all our pork
products there, although they are a bit over the average price, it is well
worth it.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Cats are an alarm clock and are
obligated to wake the humans.
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 04:21:34p, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
>> thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
>> possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
>> get some unadulterated lard soon.
>
> Unfortunately, it won't help you, Jean, but we have an excellent source for
> fresh unadulterated lard. There's a store in Queen Creek, AZ, call "The
> Pork Shop" where every conceivable type of pork product can be had. It's a
> small privately owned store and their fresh pork comes from surrounding
> farms. We used to live in Queen Creek, but now it's about a 22 mile drive
> from where we live. Definitely worth the trip. I buy almost all our pork
> products there, although they are a bit over the average price, it is well
> worth it.
>
Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?

--
Jean B.

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:36:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> We used to live in Queen Creek...

Do you not qualify to live there anymore?

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:43:00p, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 04:21:34p, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
>>> thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
>>> possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
>>> get some unadulterated lard soon.
>>
>> Unfortunately, it won't help you, Jean, but we have an excellent source
>> for fresh unadulterated lard. There's a store in Queen Creek, AZ, call
>> "The Pork Shop" where every conceivable type of pork product can be
>> had. It's a small privately owned store and their fresh pork comes
>> from surrounding farms. We used to live in Queen Creek, but now it's
>> about a 22 mile drive from where we live. Definitely worth the trip.
>> I buy almost all our pork products there, although they are a bit over
>> the average price, it is well worth it.
>>
> Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?
>

Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry, often
half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being really bad,
I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
I will not torment the emotionally
frail -Bart Simpson/Episode 8F10
-------------------------------------------

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:46:17p, Nobody told us...

> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:36:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> We used to live in Queen Creek...
>
> Do you not qualify to live there anymore?
>

Do you want a smartass answer or a serious answer?

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
I will not torment the emotionally
frail -Bart Simpson/Episode 8F10
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:43:00p, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 04:21:34p, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
>>>> thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
>>>> possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
>>>> get some unadulterated lard soon.
>>> Unfortunately, it won't help you, Jean, but we have an excellent source
>>> for fresh unadulterated lard. There's a store in Queen Creek, AZ, call
>>> "The Pork Shop" where every conceivable type of pork product can be
>>> had. It's a small privately owned store and their fresh pork comes
>>> from surrounding farms. We used to live in Queen Creek, but now it's
>>> about a 22 mile drive from where we live. Definitely worth the trip.
>>> I buy almost all our pork products there, although they are a bit over
>>> the average price, it is well worth it.
>>>
>> Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?
>>
>
> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry, often
> half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being really bad,
> I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>
Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
lard. Why the latter, I do not know.

--
Jean B.

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 06:40:34p, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:43:00p, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 04:21:34p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
>>>>> thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
>>>>> possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
>>>>> get some unadulterated lard soon.
>>>> Unfortunately, it won't help you, Jean, but we have an excellent
>>>> source for fresh unadulterated lard. There's a store in Queen Creek,
>>>> AZ, call "The Pork Shop" where every conceivable type of pork product
>>>> can be had. It's a small privately owned store and their fresh pork
>>>> comes from surrounding farms. We used to live in Queen Creek, but
>>>> now it's about a 22 mile drive from where we live. Definitely worth
>>>> the trip. I buy almost all our pork products there, although they are
>>>> a bit over the average price, it is well worth it.
>>>>
>>> Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry,
>> often half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being
>> really bad, I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>>
> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>

Yes, that's what I find in the supermarket, too, but I only bought it once
a long time ago. The BHT, of course, is a preservative. I believe the
partially hydrogenated aspect is for texture as it makes it creamier.

Pure unadulterated lard is not prticularly creamy, in fact, can be quite
firm. It's ideal for some purposes like cutting into flour for pastry, but
requires rigorous creaming with a good mixer for other purposes.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
This score just in: OS/2, Windows 0.
-------------------------------------------

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:56:48 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Thu 26 Jun 2008 06:40:34p, Jean B. told us...

>>>> Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?

>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.

>Pure unadulterated lard is not prticularly creamy, in fact, can be quite
>firm. It's ideal for some purposes like cutting into flour for pastry, but
>requires rigorous creaming with a good mixer for other purposes.

I just got some "real" lard yesterday, from the new Mexican megamart
here in town. It was so fresh, that it hadn't even solidified in the
quart containers they sold it in, and it was still a tiny bit warm.

I am thinking of frying chicken with it....

Christine

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 07:55:43p, Christine Dabney told us...

> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:56:48 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>On Thu 26 Jun 2008 06:40:34p, Jean B. told us...
>
>>>>> Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?
>
>>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>
>>Pure unadulterated lard is not prticularly creamy, in fact, can be quite
>>firm. It's ideal for some purposes like cutting into flour for pastry,
>>but requires rigorous creaming with a good mixer for other purposes.
>
> I just got some "real" lard yesterday, from the new Mexican megamart
> here in town. It was so fresh, that it hadn't even solidified in the
> quart containers they sold it in, and it was still a tiny bit warm.
>
> I am thinking of frying chicken with it....
>
> Christine
>

Wow, it couldn't be fresher than that! Perfect for frying that chicken,
Christine. Be sure and refrigerate what you don't use.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Be nice to other people, they
outnumber you 5.5 billion to 1.
-------------------------------------------

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:03:11 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Thu 26 Jun 2008 07:55:43p, Christine Dabney told us...

>> I just got some "real" lard yesterday, from the new Mexican megamart
>> here in town. It was so fresh, that it hadn't even solidified in the
>> quart containers they sold it in, and it was still a tiny bit warm.
>>
>> I am thinking of frying chicken with it....
>>
>> Christine
>>
>
>Wow, it couldn't be fresher than that! Perfect for frying that chicken,
>Christine. Be sure and refrigerate what you don't use.

It went in the fridge as soon as I got home. I got chicken there
yesterday as well...$4.80 for 10 pounds of leg quarters. They looked
good.

Wayne, this is the Ranch Market chain of mexican markets. I first
went to one in Phoenix, when I was there a few years ago.

Christine

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 08:20:05p, Christine Dabney told us...

> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:03:11 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>On Thu 26 Jun 2008 07:55:43p, Christine Dabney told us...
>
>>> I just got some "real" lard yesterday, from the new Mexican megamart
>>> here in town. It was so fresh, that it hadn't even solidified in the
>>> quart containers they sold it in, and it was still a tiny bit warm.
>>>
>>> I am thinking of frying chicken with it....
>>>
>>> Christine
>>>
>>
>>Wow, it couldn't be fresher than that! Perfect for frying that chicken,
>>Christine. Be sure and refrigerate what you don't use.
>
> It went in the fridge as soon as I got home. I got chicken there
> yesterday as well...$4.80 for 10 pounds of leg quarters. They looked
> good.
>
> Wayne, this is the Ranch Market chain of mexican markets. I first
> went to one in Phoenix, when I was there a few years ago.
>
> Christine
>

That would sure be closer for me to go for lard than all the way down to
Queen Creek. Great buy on the chicken, too! Thanks, Christine.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Men for the sake of getting a living
forget to live. - Margaret Fuller
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
6.120:

> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:46:17p, Nobody told us...
>
>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:36:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>> We used to live in Queen Creek...
>>
>> Do you not qualify to live there anymore?
>
> Do you want a smartass answer or a serious answer?

well, the smartass ones are usually more fun...
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

On Fri 27 Jun 2008 05:33:43a, enigma told us...

> Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
> 6.120:
>
>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:46:17p, Nobody told us...
>>
>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:36:52 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>
>>>> We used to live in Queen Creek...
>>>
>>> Do you not qualify to live there anymore?
>>
>> Do you want a smartass answer or a serious answer?
>
> well, the smartass ones are usually more fun...
> lee

In that case, I was ejected from the community after being demoted to
princess from queen.

It worked out for the best, however, because the distance to work was 67
miles.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 06(VI)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Happiness is Earth in your rear view
mirror.
-------------------------------------------

"Jean B." wrote:
>
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
<snip>

> >
> > Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry, often
> > half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being really bad,
> > I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
> >
> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>
> --
> Jean B.

Jean do you have access to pork fat in your local supermarkets (or other
types of grocers)? It's easy enough to render your own lard and then it
will be really fresh?

Our markets around here usually sell pork fat, with varying amounts of
meat still attached. The meat bits go into my soup pot while I'm melting
the fat down.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 06:40:34p, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:43:00p, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 04:21:34p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
>>>>>> thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
>>>>>> possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
>>>>>> get some unadulterated lard soon.
>>>>> Unfortunately, it won't help you, Jean, but we have an excellent
>>>>> source for fresh unadulterated lard. There's a store in Queen Creek,
>>>>> AZ, call "The Pork Shop" where every conceivable type of pork product
>>>>> can be had. It's a small privately owned store and their fresh pork
>>>>> comes from surrounding farms. We used to live in Queen Creek, but
>>>>> now it's about a 22 mile drive from where we live. Definitely worth
>>>>> the trip. I buy almost all our pork products there, although they are
>>>>> a bit over the average price, it is well worth it.
>>>>>
>>>> Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?
>>>>
>>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry,
>>> often half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being
>>> really bad, I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>>>
>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>>
>
> Yes, that's what I find in the supermarket, too, but I only bought it once
> a long time ago. The BHT, of course, is a preservative. I believe the
> partially hydrogenated aspect is for texture as it makes it creamier.
>
> Pure unadulterated lard is not prticularly creamy, in fact, can be quite
> firm. It's ideal for some purposes like cutting into flour for pastry, but
> requires rigorous creaming with a good mixer for other purposes.
>
Thanks for that information, Wayne. I am imagining that the
partially hydrogenated stuff makes this a less healthful product
(if that word can be applied to lard!).

--
Jean B.

Arri London wrote:
>
> "Jean B." wrote:
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry, often
>>> half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being really bad,
>>> I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>>>
>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>>
>> --
>> Jean B.
>
> Jean do you have access to pork fat in your local supermarkets (or other
> types of grocers)? It's easy enough to render your own lard and then it
> will be really fresh?
>
> Our markets around here usually sell pork fat, with varying amounts of
> meat still attached. The meat bits go into my soup pot while I'm melting
> the fat down.

I may still have to go that route. I have contacted 2 out of the
three pork vendors, and got no response from one and an email
saying the other had pork belly for rendering but no lard. I'll
contact the third, but if there is no response.... Hmmm. That
might be one of those things that one should do outside!!!!!

I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and
gleaned from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow
any special procedure or just do what seems obvious?

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." schrieb :
<snip>
> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and gleaned from
> old books that one can find online.... Do you follow any special procedure or
> just do what seems obvious?
>
Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
heat.
The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
HTH.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

On Sat 28 Jun 2008 09:35:20a, Jean B. told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 06:40:34p, Jean B. told us...
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 05:43:00p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu 26 Jun 2008 04:21:34p, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks again for this excellent clue. I don't know why *I* never
>>>>>>> thought of farmer's markets. I did a quick scan and saw three
>>>>>>> possible vendors. I have written to a couple of them. I may just
>>>>>>> get some unadulterated lard soon.
>>>>>> Unfortunately, it won't help you, Jean, but we have an excellent
>>>>>> source for fresh unadulterated lard. There's a store in Queen
>>>>>> Creek, AZ, call "The Pork Shop" where every conceivable type of
>>>>>> pork product can be had. It's a small privately owned store and
>>>>>> their fresh pork comes from surrounding farms. We used to live in
>>>>>> Queen Creek, but now it's about a 22 mile drive from where we live.
>>>>>> Definitely worth the trip. I buy almost all our pork products
>>>>>> there, although they are a bit over the average price, it is well
>>>>>> worth it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Lucky you! And have you bought any lard?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry,
>>>> often half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being
>>>> really bad, I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>>>>
>>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, that's what I find in the supermarket, too, but I only bought it
>> once a long time ago. The BHT, of course, is a preservative. I
>> believe the partially hydrogenated aspect is for texture as it makes it
>> creamier.
>>
>> Pure unadulterated lard is not prticularly creamy, in fact, can be
>> quite firm. It's ideal for some purposes like cutting into flour for
>> pastry, but requires rigorous creaming with a good mixer for other
>> purposes.
>>
> Thanks for that information, Wayne. I am imagining that the
> partially hydrogenated stuff makes this a less healthful product
> (if that word can be applied to lard!).
>

It does indeed.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 06(VI)/28(XXVIII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
By God, for a moment there it all made
sense . . . .
-------------------------------------------

On Sat 28 Jun 2008 09:39:21a, Jean B. told us...

> Arri London wrote:
>>
>> "Jean B." wrote:
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry,
>>>> often half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being
>>>> really bad, I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>>>>
>>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jean B.
>>
>> Jean do you have access to pork fat in your local supermarkets (or
>> other types of grocers)? It's easy enough to render your own lard and
>> then it will be really fresh?
>>
>> Our markets around here usually sell pork fat, with varying amounts of
>> meat still attached. The meat bits go into my soup pot while I'm
>> melting the fat down.
>
> I may still have to go that route. I have contacted 2 out of the
> three pork vendors, and got no response from one and an email
> saying the other had pork belly for rendering but no lard. I'll
> contact the third, but if there is no response.... Hmmm. That
> might be one of those things that one should do outside!!!!!
>
> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and
> gleaned from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow
> any special procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>

You can do it in a covered roaster in the oven at low heat and it doesn't
create any mess. Lower heat also contributes no additional flavor, a
distinct advantage when rendering the lard.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 06(VI)/28(XXVIII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
By God, for a moment there it all made
sense . . . .
-------------------------------------------

Michael Kuettner wrote:
> "Jean B." schrieb :
> <snip>
>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and gleaned from
>> old books that one can find online.... Do you follow any special procedure or
>> just do what seems obvious?
>>
> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
> heat.
> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
> HTH.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner
>

Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.

--
Jean B.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from "Jean B." > contains these words:
>
>
>> I may still have to go that route. I have contacted 2 out of the
>> three pork vendors, and got no response from one and an email
>> saying the other had pork belly for rendering but no lard. I'll
>> contact the third, but if there is no response.... Hmmm. That
>> might be one of those things that one should do outside!!!!!
>
>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and
>> gleaned from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow
>> any special procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>
> I use the same stinky procedure taught by a butcher. Put the fat in a
> big stock pan with a couple of pints of water , bring to a boil and
> simmer for hours; allow to cool slightly. Before the fat turns milky,
> pour everything through a sieve into another big pan (this removes any
> gristle skin or fat remnants) and allow the fat to set . In a cold
> climate like mine I can do it out of the fridge; in fact I often put
> the covered pan outside in winter. In a hot climate you may need to use
> the fridge. When all the fat has set, just lift it off the water, it
> should be white and pure.
>
> The great advantage of this water method is that the temp is lower
> than boiling fat, so you're far less likely to ignite a fat fire in the
> kitchen.
>
> Janet

That's MORE like a recall. Sounds like a good cool-weather project.

--
Jean B.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 28 Jun 2008 09:39:21a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Arri London wrote:
>>> "Jean B." wrote:
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry,
>>>>> often half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being
>>>>> really bad, I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>>>>>
>>>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>>>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>>>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>>>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jean B.
>>> Jean do you have access to pork fat in your local supermarkets (or
>>> other types of grocers)? It's easy enough to render your own lard and
>>> then it will be really fresh?
>>>
>>> Our markets around here usually sell pork fat, with varying amounts of
>>> meat still attached. The meat bits go into my soup pot while I'm
>>> melting the fat down.
>> I may still have to go that route. I have contacted 2 out of the
>> three pork vendors, and got no response from one and an email
>> saying the other had pork belly for rendering but no lard. I'll
>> contact the third, but if there is no response.... Hmmm. That
>> might be one of those things that one should do outside!!!!!
>>
>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and
>> gleaned from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow
>> any special procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>>
>
> You can do it in a covered roaster in the oven at low heat and it doesn't
> create any mess. Lower heat also contributes no additional flavor, a
> distinct advantage when rendering the lard.
>
Thanks, not I have three presumably tnt techniques!

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> >
> > "Jean B." wrote:
> >> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> >>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry, often
> >>> half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being really bad,
> >>> I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
> >>>
> >> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
> >> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
> >> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
> >> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jean B.
> >
> > Jean do you have access to pork fat in your local supermarkets (or other
> > types of grocers)? It's easy enough to render your own lard and then it
> > will be really fresh?
> >
> > Our markets around here usually sell pork fat, with varying amounts of
> > meat still attached. The meat bits go into my soup pot while I'm melting
> > the fat down.
>
> I may still have to go that route. I have contacted 2 out of the
> three pork vendors, and got no response from one and an email
> saying the other had pork belly for rendering but no lard. I'll
> contact the third, but if there is no response.... Hmmm. That
> might be one of those things that one should do outside!!!!!
>
> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and
> gleaned from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow
> any special procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>
> --
> Jean B.

I wash the pork fat thoroughly and trim off any meat bits. The pork fat
is wiped dry and cut into small pieces. Loaded into a cast iron frying
pan and heated over a low flame until no solid fat is left, with a
little stirring from time to time. It will take a while but there's no
particular smell to it. The fat is cooled slightly then poured into a
stainless steel bowl (Pyrex is fine too) and covered tightly and
refrigerated. There might be some cracklings in the pan, which are
fished out, drained and salted for snacking. It won't keep as long as
commercial lard which of course has molecules for longevity in it that
shouldn't be there

It can be done in a low oven as well but have never tried that.

"Jean B." schrieb :
> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>> <snip>
>>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and gleaned
>>> from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow any special
>>> procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>>>
>> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
>> heat.
>> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
>> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
>> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
>> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
>> HTH.
>>
>
> Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.
>
That's the way it's been done here for generations.
That's actually the first thing I've "cooked" when I was 6 years old.
On a hearth from the 15th century. Ah, memory lane ...

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

"Arri London" schrieb :
>
<snip>
> I wash the pork fat thoroughly and trim off any meat bits. The pork fat
> is wiped dry and cut into small pieces. Loaded into a cast iron frying
> pan and heated over a low flame until no solid fat is left, with a
> little stirring from time to time. It will take a while but there's no
> particular smell to it. The fat is cooled slightly then poured into a
> stainless steel bowl (Pyrex is fine too) and covered tightly and
> refrigerated. There might be some cracklings in the pan, which are
> fished out, drained and salted for snacking.

Mix the cracklings with a little lard and smear that on sour-dough bread.
A little salt and pepper ...

> It won't keep as long as
> commercial lard which of course has molecules for longevity in it that
> shouldn't be there
>
> It can be done in a low oven as well but have never tried that.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Janet Baraclough > wrote in
:

> The message >
> from "Jean B." > contains these words:
>
>
>> That's MORE like a recall. Sounds like a good
>> cool-weather project.
>
> That's exactly what it is; I get it free from the
> butcher and use it
> for making wild-bird cake.

i still have around 35 pounds of beef fat in the freezer from
last year, & my friends will be sending cattle to slaughter
soon, so they'll be offering me more...
the beef suet sets up kind of soft, even when i mix seed in
(which also tends to sink, even in fairly flat trays). is
there a way to get firmer cakes? currently i keep them in the
freezer because they're melty at room temp. do you have any
good bird cake recipes, for instance, adding peanut butter or
something? i'm just thinking i can render the stuff into suet
for birds & sell her back a 'value added' product she can sell
at her farm store. less waste for her, more freezer space for
me

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

Arri London wrote:
>
> "Jean B." wrote:
>> Arri London wrote:
>>> "Jean B." wrote:
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> Yes, I almost always have it on hand. Mostly I use it in pie pastry, often
>>>>> half and half with butter (for flavor). When I feel like being really bad,
>>>>> I use lard to fry chicken and chicken fried steak. YUM!
>>>>>
>>>> Oh! Lucky you! Well, now I am optimistic that I can play around
>>>> with lard. I REALLY didn't want to buy the lard that is in the
>>>> supermarket, which contains, IIRC, BHT and partially hydrogenated
>>>> lard. Why the latter, I do not know.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jean B.
>>> Jean do you have access to pork fat in your local supermarkets (or other
>>> types of grocers)? It's easy enough to render your own lard and then it
>>> will be really fresh?
>>>
>>> Our markets around here usually sell pork fat, with varying amounts of
>>> meat still attached. The meat bits go into my soup pot while I'm melting
>>> the fat down.
>> I may still have to go that route. I have contacted 2 out of the
>> three pork vendors, and got no response from one and an email
>> saying the other had pork belly for rendering but no lard. I'll
>> contact the third, but if there is no response.... Hmmm. That
>> might be one of those things that one should do outside!!!!!
>>
>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and
>> gleaned from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow
>> any special procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>>
>> --
>> Jean B.
>
> I wash the pork fat thoroughly and trim off any meat bits. The pork fat
> is wiped dry and cut into small pieces. Loaded into a cast iron frying
> pan and heated over a low flame until no solid fat is left, with a
> little stirring from time to time. It will take a while but there's no
> particular smell to it. The fat is cooled slightly then poured into a
> stainless steel bowl (Pyrex is fine too) and covered tightly and
> refrigerated. There might be some cracklings in the pan, which are
> fished out, drained and salted for snacking. It won't keep as long as
> commercial lard which of course has molecules for longevity in it that
> shouldn't be there
>
> It can be done in a low oven as well but have never tried that.

Thanks. This sounds quite doable--as do the other techniques
mentioned here. Pshew. I don't want those molecules!

--
Jean B.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from "Jean B." > contains these words:
>
>
>> That's MORE like a recall. Sounds like a good cool-weather project.
>
> That's exactly what it is; I get it free from the butcher and use it
> for making wild-bird cake.
>
> Janet

Lard? Relatedly, I can find suet--which would be good for making
bird treats.

--
Jean B.

Michael Kuettner wrote:
> "Jean B." schrieb :
>> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>> <snip>
>>>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and gleaned
>>>> from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow any special
>>>> procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>>>>
>>> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
>>> heat.
>>> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
>>> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
>>> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
>>> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
>>> HTH.
>>>
>> Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.
>>
> That's the way it's been done here for generations.
> That's actually the first thing I've "cooked" when I was 6 years old.
> On a hearth from the 15th century. Ah, memory lane ...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner
>
Really! And I am drooling as I read about that hearth. I am SO
hoping I will manage to buy an antique house, but, of course, here
in New England, that does NOT mean 15th-century.

--
Jean B.

enigma wrote:
> Janet Baraclough > wrote in
> :
>
>> The message >
>> from "Jean B." > contains these words:
>>
>>
>>> That's MORE like a recall. Sounds like a good
>>> cool-weather project.
>> That's exactly what it is; I get it free from the
>> butcher and use it
>> for making wild-bird cake.
>
> i still have around 35 pounds of beef fat in the freezer from
> last year, & my friends will be sending cattle to slaughter
> soon, so they'll be offering me more...
> the beef suet sets up kind of soft, even when i mix seed in
> (which also tends to sink, even in fairly flat trays). is
> there a way to get firmer cakes? currently i keep them in the
> freezer because they're melty at room temp. do you have any
> good bird cake recipes, for instance, adding peanut butter or
> something? i'm just thinking i can render the stuff into suet
> for birds & sell her back a 'value added' product she can sell
> at her farm store. less waste for her, more freezer space for
> me
>
> lee

Okay, I'll ask the question that came to my mind when I answered
Janet, and which may also benefit you. What IS no-melt suet?
What gets added to it?

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." schrieb :
> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>>>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and gleaned
>>>>> from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow any special
>>>>> procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>>>>>
>>>> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
>>>> heat.
>>>> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
>>>> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
>>>> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
>>>> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
>>>> HTH.
>>>>
>>> Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.
>>>
>> That's the way it's been done here for generations.
>> That's actually the first thing I've "cooked" when I was 6 years old.
>> On a hearth from the 15th century. Ah, memory lane ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Michael Kuettner
>>
> Really! And I am drooling as I read about that hearth. I am SO hoping I will
> manage to buy an antique house, but, of course, here in New England, that does
> NOT mean 15th-century.
>
I'm still drooling when I think about that hearth.
Cooking space was 2 x 1 metres. Then came the baking and roasting
chambers and then the smoking chamber.
Depending on what you wanted to do, you turned metal "dials", so
that the heat from the fire went into the right channels.
Can't beat a pork roast (Schweinsbraten) made on wood fire.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Michael Kuettner wrote:
> "Jean B." schrieb :
>> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>>> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>>>>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and gleaned
>>>>>> from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow any special
>>>>>> procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
>>>>> heat.
>>>>> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
>>>>> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
>>>>> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
>>>>> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.
>>>>
>>> That's the way it's been done here for generations.
>>> That's actually the first thing I've "cooked" when I was 6 years old.
>>> On a hearth from the 15th century. Ah, memory lane ...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Michael Kuettner
>>>
>> Really! And I am drooling as I read about that hearth. I am SO hoping I will
>> manage to buy an antique house, but, of course, here in New England, that does
>> NOT mean 15th-century.
>>
> I'm still drooling when I think about that hearth.
> Cooking space was 2 x 1 metres. Then came the baking and roasting
> chambers and then the smoking chamber.
> Depending on what you wanted to do, you turned metal "dials", so
> that the heat from the fire went into the right channels.
> Can't beat a pork roast (Schweinsbraten) made on wood fire.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner
>
>
Oh! You too (drooling, that is).

I lived in an antique house when I was a kid. (Don't laugh, but
that would mean early 1800s; if one is really lucky here, one
MIGHT get a house from the 1700s; and there are a very few from
the 1600s.) It had a large hearth with brick ovens. I STILL want
to recapture that and find myself looking at antique houses almost
exclusively as I prepare to buy and move within the next year. If
I achieve this, I will then wish I had the ?clockwork spit? (have
to verify that I remember this correctly) and various other things
that my parents accumulated. I think it would be quite
interesting to do some cooking as they did in days of yore.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." schrieb :
> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>>>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>>>> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>>>>>> "Jean B." schrieb :
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> I have lots of directions for making lard in my old cookbooks and
>>>>>>> gleaned from old books that one can find online.... Do you follow any
>>>>>>> special procedure or just do what seems obvious?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on
>>>>>> _low_
>>>>>> heat.
>>>>>> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
>>>>>> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
>>>>>> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
>>>>>> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.
>>>>>
>>>> That's the way it's been done here for generations.
>>>> That's actually the first thing I've "cooked" when I was 6 years old.
>>>> On a hearth from the 15th century. Ah, memory lane ...
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Kuettner
>>>>
>>> Really! And I am drooling as I read about that hearth. I am SO hoping I
>>> will manage to buy an antique house, but, of course, here in New England,
>>> that does NOT mean 15th-century.
>>>
>> I'm still drooling when I think about that hearth.
>> Cooking space was 2 x 1 metres. Then came the baking and roasting
>> chambers and then the smoking chamber.
>> Depending on what you wanted to do, you turned metal "dials", so
>> that the heat from the fire went into the right channels.
>> Can't beat a pork roast (Schweinsbraten) made on wood fire.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Michael Kuettner
>>
>>
> Oh! You too (drooling, that is).
>
> I lived in an antique house when I was a kid. (Don't laugh, but that would
> mean early 1800s; if one is really lucky here, one MIGHT get a house from the
> 1700s; and there are a very few from the 1600s.)
I was born in a Palazzo built in 1452.
It survived the bombs of WW II with hardly a scratch, although
a blockbuster exploded 40 metres away.
Dang, that was quality !

> It had a large hearth with brick ovens. I STILL want to recapture that and
> find myself looking at antique houses almost exclusively as I prepare to buy
> and move within the next year. If I achieve this, I will then wish I had the
> ?clockwork spit? (have to verify that I remember this correctly) and various
> other things that my parents accumulated. I think it would be quite
> interesting to do some cooking as they did in days of yore.
>
Then you might be interested in

<http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html>
or
<http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/historical/ant-rom-coll.html#9>
or
<http://www.oldcook.com/en/medieval_gastronomy.htm>


Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Michael Kuettner wrote:
> I was born in a Palazzo built in 1452.
> It survived the bombs of WW II with hardly a scratch, although
> a blockbuster exploded 40 metres away.
> Dang, that was quality !

Oh my! My drooling (and memories and yearning) must be NOTHING
compared to yours. How long did you live there? It never gets
out of your system, does it?
>
> Then you might be interested in
>
> <http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html>
> or
> <http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/historical/ant-rom-coll.html#9>
> or
> <http://www.oldcook.com/en/medieval_gastronomy.htm>
>

I do periodically sniff around such sites. I actually did do some
"medieval' cooking decades ago. (That's in quotes because of
the accuracy issue.) Now I find myself more interested in
colonial American cookery and how the cooking in this country has
evolved. Of course, one can trace that back to the "Old World"
and then from there to antiquity and the dawn of agriculture if
one so chooses. (You begin to see why my thoughts of writing a
book have kind-of stalled.... <g>)

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." schrieb :
> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>> I was born in a Palazzo built in 1452.
>> It survived the bombs of WW II with hardly a scratch, although
>> a blockbuster exploded 40 metres away.
>> Dang, that was quality !
>
> Oh my! My drooling (and memories and yearning) must be NOTHING compared to
> yours. How long did you live there? It never gets out of your system, does
> it?
>>
I lived there until I was 8 years old.
Then we moved to another city. But I spent my summer holidays
in my old home.
It was just 500 metres away from the cathedral. When you've heard
Bach's Toccata in this building, you're changed forever.
Those accoustics ...
Luckily, most cities in my country have old towns (the centers).
Everything later than 1500 is considered "modern" ;-)

>> Then you might be interested in
>>
>> <http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html>
>> or
>> <http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/historical/ant-rom-coll.html#9>
>> or
>> <http://www.oldcook.com/en/medieval_gastronomy.htm>
>>
>
> I do periodically sniff around such sites. I actually did do some "medieval'
> cooking decades ago. (That's in quotes because of the accuracy issue.) Now I
> find myself more interested in colonial American cookery and how the cooking
> in this country has evolved. Of course, one can trace that back to the "Old
> World" and then from there to antiquity and the dawn of agriculture if one so
> chooses. (You begin to see why my thoughts of writing a book have kind-of
> stalled.... <g>)
>
Should I tell the story of how my "Garum" exploded ? ;-)

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:44:03 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:

>Michael Kuettner wrote:

>>>> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
>>>> heat.
>>>> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
>>>> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
>>>> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
>>>> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
>>>> HTH.
>>>>
>>> Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.
>>>
>> That's the way it's been done here for generations.
>> That's actually the first thing I've "cooked" when I was 6 years old.
>> On a hearth from the 15th century. Ah, memory lane ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Michael Kuettner
>>
>Really!

I made lard for the first time when I first started traveling back in
2003. I was in Las Cruces, NM, and they sold these big hunks of pork
fat in the Mexican stores. I was reading a book of Rick Bayless at
that time, and he told how to make lard. So I did. I even took pics
of it, and fortunately, I have those on webshots.

http://community.webshots.com/album/86386195VaDYTE

Now, I am buying it at the huge Mexican megamart that just opened in
town. I used some last night to fry some chicken...

Christine

Michael Kuettner wrote:

> I lived there until I was 8 years old.
> Then we moved to another city. But I spent my summer holidays
> in my old home.
> It was just 500 metres away from the cathedral. When you've heard
> Bach's Toccata in this building, you're changed forever.
> Those accoustics ...

I'm sure it would give me chills....

> Luckily, most cities in my country have old towns (the centers).
> Everything later than 1500 is considered "modern" ;-)

I really wish I had lived in Europe for awhile. The history, the
architecture, etc. would have been just thrilling for me.
>
> Should I tell the story of how my "Garum" exploded ? ;-)
>

Uh, yes. Please do.

--
Jean B.

Christine Dabney wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:44:03 -0400, "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> Michael Kuettner wrote:
>
>>>>> Just cut up the fat in chunks, throw them in a pot and set the pot on _low_
>>>>> heat.
>>>>> The fat will begin to melt. Wait until all is molten and skim of the
>>>>> tiny remaining solid particles (we call them Grammeln).
>>>>> Fill lard in container and put it in the fridge.
>>>>> The process isn't smelly; if you smell something, the heat is too high.
>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks, that's simpler than what I seem to recall.
>>>>
>>> That's the way it's been done here for generations.
>>> That's actually the first thing I've "cooked" when I was 6 years old.
>>> On a hearth from the 15th century. Ah, memory lane ...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Michael Kuettner
>>>
>> Really!
>
> I made lard for the first time when I first started traveling back in
> 2003. I was in Las Cruces, NM, and they sold these big hunks of pork
> fat in the Mexican stores. I was reading a book of Rick Bayless at
> that time, and he told how to make lard. So I did. I even took pics
> of it, and fortunately, I have those on webshots.
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/86386195VaDYTE
>
> Now, I am buying it at the huge Mexican megamart that just opened in
> town. I used some last night to fry some chicken...
>
> Christine

I'll look in my Bayless books to find out the temp. Did your oven
get really grease-coated? It still looks like a cold-weather
project. At least then the house would benefit from all that
baking (or cooking on top of the stove, depending on the method used).

--
Jean B.

Janet Baraclough > wrote in
:

> Lard is harder. I just mix it (warm enough to be runny)
> with bird
> seed, let it cool a bit, and pour it into yoghurt-pot
> moulds.

so if i mix lard with the suet, it might not be quite so
soft? i keep it in the freezer, but it's melty at around 40F
outside. i need to make slabs for my metal cage suet holder.
the grey squirrels eat the mesh bags i used to use.

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.