It appears that fried rice existed in traditional Serbian cooking long
before Oriental influences made it famous worldwide.

A woman preparing the traditional fusion dish stuffed peppers sauteed some
chopped onion in oil, then added a cup of dry washed rice with chopped
garlic and continued to sautee the mixture for some time before adding other
ingredients, including ground beef and water.

She said she starting using this technique before she'd even heard of China.
"It's what I learned as a little girl back in the village."

"Janet Baraclough"
> from "The UnInmate" > contains these words:
>
>> A woman preparing the traditional fusion dish stuffed peppers sauteed
>> some >> chopped onion in oil, then added a cup of dry washed rice with
>> chopped
>> garlic and continued to sautee the mixture for some time before adding
>> other
>> ingredients, including ground beef and water.
>
>> She said she starting using this technique before she'd even heard of
>> China.
>
> Doesn't that statement tell you something about her expertise on
> China's global influence?
>
> Janet

More telling about the reporter who did not recognize she was using a
risotto technique, rather than making Chinese fried rice. I have been
cooking since I was 5 years old. I do not remember when I first realized
that China was a country.

Serbia and Italy are very close in many ways, and it is completely normal
that cooking techniques should leak back and forth between two countries so
well tied.

"The UnInmate" > wrote in message
...
> It appears that fried rice existed in traditional Serbian cooking long
> before Oriental influences made it famous worldwide.
>
> A woman preparing the traditional fusion dish stuffed peppers sauteed some
> chopped onion in oil, then added a cup of dry washed rice with chopped
> garlic and continued to sautee the mixture for some time before adding
> other ingredients, including ground beef and water.
>
> She said she starting using this technique before she'd even heard of
> China. "It's what I learned as a little girl back in the village."

Preparing rice and beef to stuff peppers with isn't making "fried rice".

"dejablues" > wrote in message
...
>
> "The UnInmate" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It appears that fried rice existed in traditional Serbian cooking long
>> before Oriental influences made it famous worldwide.
>>
>> A woman preparing the traditional fusion dish stuffed peppers sauteed
>> some chopped onion in oil, then added a cup of dry washed rice with
>> chopped garlic and continued to sautee the mixture for some time before
>> adding other ingredients, including ground beef and water.
>>
>> She said she starting using this technique before she'd even heard of
>> China. "It's what I learned as a little girl back in the village."
>
> Preparing rice and beef to stuff peppers with isn't making "fried rice".

In the broader sense of frying rice it is. :-)

The UnInmate wrote:

> It appears that fried rice existed in traditional Serbian cooking long
> before Oriental influences made it famous worldwide.
>
> A woman preparing the traditional fusion dish stuffed peppers sauteed some
> chopped onion in oil, then added a cup of dry washed rice with chopped
> garlic and continued to sautee the mixture for some time before adding
> other ingredients, including ground beef and water.
>
> She said she starting using this technique before she'd even heard of
> China. "It's what I learned as a little girl back in the village."

In that anecdote, where is the evidence that the Serbs made fried rice
before the Chinese? Is the woman several thousand years old? And doesn't the
writer know that fried rice starts off with COOKED rice?

It appears that someone lacks both culinary knowledge and logical skills.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> The UnInmate wrote:
>
>> It appears that fried rice existed in traditional Serbian cooking long
>> before Oriental influences made it famous worldwide.
>>
>> A woman preparing the traditional fusion dish stuffed peppers sauteed
>> some
>> chopped onion in oil, then added a cup of dry washed rice with chopped
>> garlic and continued to sautee the mixture for some time before adding
>> other ingredients, including ground beef and water.
>>
>> She said she starting using this technique before she'd even heard of
>> China. "It's what I learned as a little girl back in the village."
>
> In that anecdote, where is the evidence that the Serbs made fried rice
> before the Chinese?

Don't think they did. Serbia's been around for about 1400 years and China
much longer. :-) That doesn't necessarily say who was using fried rice
first, but it kinda follows China had more chance to do it. Which is partly
why the original post didn't even mention who used it first.

> Is the woman several thousand years old?

If you meant that question seriously, who typed it for you?

And doesn't the
> writer know that fried rice starts off with COOKED rice?

The anecdote did get one thing wrong: Meat is added and fried without any
water, the peppers stuffed and placed in a roasing pan, and then the pan
half-filled with a tomato-based sauce that helps finish cooking the rice. So
this rice is fried without prior cooking, then cooked, instead of the other
way around. Am I to understand that the other way around is somehow the
"proper" way to fry rice?


> It appears that someone lacks both culinary knowledge and logical skills.

It appears that "someone"...no, I won't use that kind of cheap preschool
dodge even if you did use it and thought it would accomplish anything. It
appears that YOU are screaming because nursey needs to change your diaper.

To the rest of you: I am sorry I wasn't more clear about what I found
fascinating in this observation. It was the fact that traditional cuisine
outside the Far East did cook rice by frying it before the *west* discovered
fried rice. And if the term "fried rice" is proprietary, the Government of
China is free to sue me if they think they can collect damages.

"The Imbecile" > wrote:
>
> The anecdote did get one thing wrong: Meat is added and fried without any
> water, the peppers stuffed and placed in a roasing pan, and then the pan
> half-filled with a tomato-based sauce that helps finish cooking the rice. So
> this rice is fried without prior cooking, then cooked, instead of the other
> way around.

You're talking Puerto Rican rice (ie. Spanish rice)... and lissenup,
imbecile, until relatively recently there were no peppers or tomatoes
in Europe or any other part of the planet except the Americas... so
you are a liar and a troll. Stuffed peppers with tomatoes in Serbia a
thousand years ago... IMBECILE is just making stuff up,


pilaf [PEE-lahf, PIH-lahf]
This rice- or bulghur-based dish (also called pilau ) originated in
the Near East and always begins by first browning the rice in butter
or oil before cooking it in stock. Pilafs can be variously seasoned
and usually contain other ingredients such as chopped cooked
vegetables, meats, seafood or poultry. In India they're highly spiced
with curry. Pilaf can be served as a side dish or main dish.

� Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst

The UnInmate wrote:

> And doesn't the
>> writer know that fried rice starts off with COOKED rice?
>
> The anecdote did get one thing wrong: Meat is added and fried without any
> water, the peppers stuffed and placed in a roasing pan, and then the pan
> half-filled with a tomato-based sauce that helps finish cooking the rice.
> So this rice is fried without prior cooking, then cooked, instead of the
> other way around. Am I to understand that the other way around is somehow
> the "proper" way to fry rice?

Yes, you are to understand exactly that. The method you described isn't
fried rice. It's the first step in risotto or pilaf.

Moreover, you've given us no reason to believe that the Serbians did their
pre-cooking technique before the Romans (who became the Italians), the
Phoenicians (who became the Lebanese and part of the Tunisians), or the
Persians (who became the Iranians) -- all of whom pan-cooked grains before
cooking through in liquid.


>> It appears that someone lacks both culinary knowledge and logical skills.
>
> It appears that "someone"...no, I won't use that kind of cheap preschool
> dodge even if you did use it and thought it would accomplish anything. It
> appears that YOU are screaming because nursey needs to change your diaper.

I said "someone" because I wasn't sure whether you were the originator of
the anecdote, or whether the conclusions you stated were your own or someone
else's. You've gone on to make your ignorance and lack of cognitive ability
abundantly obvious, so thanks for clearing that up.

Specifically:

Your ignorance is shown in the fact that you thought you were describing
fried rice. You've gone on to confirm that you don't really know what fried
rice is. That's what I meant by "lacks culinary knowledge." I don't know why
you're so defensive about it; this newsgroup exists in part to provide
culinary knowledge to the culinarily ignorant. You just shouldn't have been
so PROUDLY ignorant.

Your lack of cognitive ability is shown in the fact that you thought that
the existence of a woman who learned the pilaf method in her Serbian
childhood indicates that the "Serbian" method pre-dates the worldwide
knowledge of Chinese fried rice. You wrote, "It appears that fried rice
existed in traditional Serbian cooking long before Oriental influences made
it famous worldwide." Then you provided the anecdote as if it constituted
some kind of proof -- though it clearly doesn't. Therefore, you failed to
properly think the logic and the timeline through, which is what I meant by
"lacks logical skills." While you're obviously hurt by my pointing out the
stupidity of what you wrote, there's really nothing you can do about it at
this point: You wrote it, and it was stupid. Just try to do better in future
posts.

Bob

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
...
"The Imbecile" > wrote:
>
> The anecdote did get one thing wrong: Meat is added and fried without any
> water, the peppers stuffed and placed in a roasing pan, and then the pan
> half-filled with a tomato-based sauce that helps finish cooking the rice.
> So
> this rice is fried without prior cooking, then cooked, instead of the
> other
> way around.

You're talking Puerto Rican rice (ie. Spanish rice)... and lissenup,
imbecile, until relatively recently there were no peppers or tomatoes
in Europe or any other part of the planet except the Americas... so
you are a liar and a troll. Stuffed peppers with tomatoes in Serbia a
thousand years ago... IMBECILE is just making stuff up,


pilaf [PEE-lahf, PIH-lahf]
This rice- or bulghur-based dish (also called pilau ) originated in
the Near East and always begins by first browning the rice in butter
or oil before cooking it in stock. Pilafs can be variously seasoned
and usually contain other ingredients such as chopped cooked
vegetables, meats, seafood or poultry. In India they're highly spiced
with curry. Pilaf can be served as a side dish or main dish.

? Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst

--------------------------------------------------------

Just for my information, is this really two different people or are you
sockpuppetting? If you are, say hi to Ulrike. :-)

A lot of claptrap I can't be bothered straightening you out on. Feel free to
have the last word.

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> The UnInmate wrote:
>
>> And doesn't the
>>> writer know that fried rice starts off with COOKED rice?
>>
>> The anecdote did get one thing wrong: Meat is added and fried without any
>> water, the peppers stuffed and placed in a roasing pan, and then the pan
>> half-filled with a tomato-based sauce that helps finish cooking the rice.
>> So this rice is fried without prior cooking, then cooked, instead of the
>> other way around. Am I to understand that the other way around is somehow
>> the "proper" way to fry rice?
>
> Yes, you are to understand exactly that. The method you described isn't
> fried rice. It's the first step in risotto or pilaf.
>
> Moreover, you've given us no reason to believe that the Serbians did their
> pre-cooking technique before the Romans (who became the Italians), the
> Phoenicians (who became the Lebanese and part of the Tunisians), or the
> Persians (who became the Iranians) -- all of whom pan-cooked grains before
> cooking through in liquid.
>
>
>>> It appears that someone lacks both culinary knowledge and logical
>>> skills.
>>
>> It appears that "someone"...no, I won't use that kind of cheap preschool
>> dodge even if you did use it and thought it would accomplish anything. It
>> appears that YOU are screaming because nursey needs to change your
>> diaper.
>
> I said "someone" because I wasn't sure whether you were the originator of
> the anecdote, or whether the conclusions you stated were your own or
> someone else's. You've gone on to make your ignorance and lack of
> cognitive ability abundantly obvious, so thanks for clearing that up.
>
> Specifically:
>
> Your ignorance is shown in the fact that you thought you were describing
> fried rice. You've gone on to confirm that you don't really know what
> fried rice is. That's what I meant by "lacks culinary knowledge." I don't
> know why you're so defensive about it; this newsgroup exists in part to
> provide culinary knowledge to the culinarily ignorant. You just shouldn't
> have been so PROUDLY ignorant.
>
> Your lack of cognitive ability is shown in the fact that you thought that
> the existence of a woman who learned the pilaf method in her Serbian
> childhood indicates that the "Serbian" method pre-dates the worldwide
> knowledge of Chinese fried rice. You wrote, "It appears that fried rice
> existed in traditional Serbian cooking long before Oriental influences
> made it famous worldwide." Then you provided the anecdote as if it
> constituted some kind of proof -- though it clearly doesn't. Therefore,
> you failed to properly think the logic and the timeline through, which is
> what I meant by "lacks logical skills." While you're obviously hurt by my
> pointing out the stupidity of what you wrote, there's really nothing you
> can do about it at this point: You wrote it, and it was stupid. Just try
> to do better in future posts.
>
> Bob

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:44:34 -0400, "The UnInmate"
> wrote:

>The anecdote did get one thing wrong: Meat is added and fried without any
>water, the peppers stuffed and placed in a roasing pan, and then the pan
>half-filled with a tomato-based sauce that helps finish cooking the rice. So
>this rice is fried without prior cooking, then cooked, instead of the other
>way around. Am I to understand that the other way around is somehow the
>"proper" way to fry rice?

Don't a lot of people saute rice before cooking? I know my
grandmother did, so I assumed it was pretty common.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

sf wrote on Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:26:40 -0700:

>> The anecdote did get one thing wrong: Meat is added and fried
>> without any water, the peppers stuffed and placed in a
>> roasing pan, and then the pan half-filled with a tomato-based
>> sauce that helps finish cooking the rice. So this rice is
>> fried without prior cooking, then cooked, instead of the
>> other way around. Am I to understand that the other way
>> around is somehow the "proper" way to fry rice?

> Don't a lot of people saute rice before cooking? I know my
> grandmother did, so I assumed it was pretty common.

It's pretty common in Spanish cooking and probably Mexican too. I also
remember Mexican recipes that use noodles sautéed before cooking in
sauces.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jul 11, 10:26*am, sf wrote:
>
> Don't a lot of people saute rice before cooking? *I know my
> grandmother did, so I assumed it was pretty common.
>
Sure, you find it in dishes from all around the world. It's a
standard way to achieve separate grains of rice rather than clumped
together if that's what you want. Sometimes it adds flavor if the oil
is flavored. And one-dish meals like paella or arroz con pollo or
zillions of others include stirring the rice around in oil before
adding the liquid. In the OP the error was simply not knowing what
Chinese-style fried rice is in the first place and therefore making an
invalid comparison.

Here's the best basmati rice: wash rice, then let it soak in clean
cold water for 30 minutes; drain it into a sieve or colander and let
it air dry for another 30 minutes; melt a bit of ghee or clarified
butter in a pot on medium heat and stir the rice around in it for a
minute or two; add water, bring to boil, turn heat to lowest simmer,
cover, cook about 20 minutes; leave covered, remove from heat for 10
minutes.

Or, simplest pilaf-type rice: gently cook a little bit of finely
chopped onion in butter or oil and butter combined; add rice and some
vermicelli broken into very short pieces; add hot chicken stock, bring
to boil; cover, simmer on lowest heat 17 minutes; remove from heat,
let sit 10 minutes. Fluff up with a fork while adding some chopped
parsley. -aem

"aem" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 10:26 am, sf wrote:
>
> Don't a lot of people saute rice before cooking? I know my
> grandmother did, so I assumed it was pretty common.
>
Sure, you find it in dishes from all around the world. It's a
standard way to achieve separate grains of rice rather than clumped
together if that's what you want. Sometimes it adds flavor if the oil
is flavored. And one-dish meals like paella or arroz con pollo or
zillions of others include stirring the rice around in oil before
adding the liquid. In the OP the error was simply not knowing what
Chinese-style fried rice is in the first place and therefore making an
invalid comparison.

Here's the best basmati rice: wash rice, then let it soak in clean
cold water for 30 minutes; drain it into a sieve or colander and let
it air dry for another 30 minutes; melt a bit of ghee or clarified
butter in a pot on medium heat and stir the rice around in it for a
minute or two; add water, bring to boil, turn heat to lowest simmer,
cover, cook about 20 minutes; leave covered, remove from heat for 10
minutes.

Or, simplest pilaf-type rice: gently cook a little bit of finely
chopped onion in butter or oil and butter combined; add rice and some
vermicelli broken into very short pieces; add hot chicken stock, bring
to boil; cover, simmer on lowest heat 17 minutes; remove from heat,
let sit 10 minutes. Fluff up with a fork while adding some chopped
parsley. -aem

---------------------------------------------------------

That's highly informative. Thank you.

For more than 500 years the Ottoman Empire and Civilization dominated
much of the Balkans and Middle East and lasted until the end of World
War 1. The trade routes from the Far East ran through their territory
and they developed a very sophisticated cuisine which they introduced
into Europe when they conquered the Balkan Peninsula. They brought with
them foods such as capsicum peppers, complex pastries, and many rice
dishes such as pilaf and rice-stuffed grape leaves, cabbages, peppers,
and eggplants, just to name a few. Serbia came under Ottoman control
starting in the late 1300's. I suspect the Italian peninsula received
their rice from the Orient via the trade routes dominated by the
Republic of Venice who maintained trade routes through Ottoman
territory.

D.M.
--
greatvalleyimages.com

"Donald Martinich" > wrote in message
...
> For more than 500 years the Ottoman Empire and Civilization dominated
> much of the Balkans and Middle East and lasted until the end of World
> War 1. The trade routes from the Far East ran through their territory
> and they developed a very sophisticated cuisine which they introduced
> into Europe when they conquered the Balkan Peninsula. They brought with
> them foods such as capsicum peppers, complex pastries, and many rice
> dishes such as pilaf and rice-stuffed grape leaves, cabbages, peppers,
> and eggplants, just to name a few. Serbia came under Ottoman control
> starting in the late 1300's. I suspect the Italian peninsula received
> their rice from the Orient via the trade routes dominated by the
> Republic of Venice who maintained trade routes through Ottoman
> territory.

Now I do feel stupid, because it didn't occur to me to wonder where Balkans
people got their rice from in the first place, and AFAIK rice is not
indigenous to Europe. Thanks for the information.

James wrote:

>> Don't a lot of people saute rice before cooking? I know my
>> grandmother did, so I assumed it was pretty common.
>
> It's pretty common in Spanish cooking and probably Mexican too. I also
> remember Mexican recipes that use noodles sautéed before cooking in
> sauces.

Fideos are not all that well-known here, but most of the people I've seen
who try them like them a lot.

Bob