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Default A really neat grocery tote

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:53:08 -0500, Lou Decruss >
wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:59:04 -0400, Tracy > wrote:
>
>>Just came across this the boston.com blog:
>>
>>http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/food...t_this_te.html
>>
>>Kinda pricey though. The site has some interesting things.
>>
>>Tracy

>
>I got one at least twice that size for at a rummage sale for 50 cents
>about 5 years ago. It's canvas and I toss it in the washer once in
>awhile. It will probably out live me. And it doesn't have words I
>don't understand on it. The bag you posted looks way to small to be
>useful. The ones I see for sale in the grocery stores are too small
>too.
>
>Lou


You want bigger - try one of the IKEA bags, they are cheap, strong,
and unless you are built like Schwartznegger I'd bet you couldn't lift
one of those filled with cans.
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<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:50:08 -0400, "Felice" >
> wrote:
>
>>I wish I had known that my husband's last day would be his last!

>
> auto accident?


No, it was Mr. Cancer, but we both thought he had a week or so left when he
went down for his usual afternoon nap. So I said "Have a nice one" and it
was not only nice but final. Way to go, however, for him.

Hence my advice to consider this day could be anyone's last day.

Felice


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On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:10:34 -0400, George >
wrote:

>Now the third local walmart is literally moving across the street from
>their current locations. The only problem with the current location is
>that the nine year tax exemption is about to expire. When we (the
>taxpayers) built the original site for them we acquired and developed
>the land for them for free including running the utilities and
>constructing a highway interchange at no cost to walmart and gave them a
>nine year tax exemption. Now we are repeating that one by one as their
>tax exemption expires. I would think one of the worlds richest families
>and businesses could afford to pay taxes and pay for there own stuff.


Who approved that move? Jill says WalMart can't pull that sh*t where
her mom lives. The voters won't stand for it.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West
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Tracy > wrote:
> Just came across this the boston.com blog:
>
> http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/food...t_this_te.html
>
> Kinda pricey though. The site has some interesting things.
>
> Tracy


I don't need a grocery tote... it's cute, though The Publix I shop at
here in SC gives you a free heavy-duty divided (in quarters) tote if you buy
4 bottles of wine. It's made from recycled material and the idea is the
next time you buy wine you take the tote and they put the bottles in it. It
saves on plastic bags, which I wouldn't much trust for wine bottles anyway


They also sell small totes for groceries for about $1.50 but they aren't big
enough for more than a couple of bunches of produce.

Jill

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> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:10:34 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
> > Now the third local walmart is literally moving across the street
> > from their current locations. The only problem with the current
> > location is that the nine year tax exemption is about to expire.
> > When we (the taxpayers) built the original site for them we
> > acquired and developed the land for them for free including running
> > the utilities and constructing a highway interchange at no cost to
> > walmart and gave them a nine year tax exemption. Now we are
> > repeating that one by one as their tax exemption expires. I would
> > think one of the worlds richest families and businesses could
> > afford to pay taxes and pay for there own stuff.

>
> Who approved that move? Jill says WalMart can't pull that sh*t where
> her mom lives. The voters won't stand for it.


It's true! People were up in arms, adamant there wasn't going to be another
Wal*Mart. The Beaufort City Council denied their building permit and
blocked sale of the land to them (it didn't meet the building design codes
for the property in the first place). Then the coucil turned down the (very
vague) appeal they filed. Wal*Mart made a lot of noise about a lawsuit but
eventually gave up. Thing is, it takes concerned people to attend council
meetings, write letters to elected officials, letters to the editor of the
local paper, etc. In other words, you have to make *noise*. If you sit
back and say "oh well", Wal*Mart will steamroller right over you.

Jill



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"jmcquown" > wrote in message news:l7-dnfXQ5N-

> Consignment shops are places where you take "gently worn" clothing (or in
> some cases, clothing you've never worn) to be sold. The shop sets a price
> and gets a cut if the item sells.


Don't know of that here, except for two thrift store chains that take
donations of castoffs. They're supposed to be in existence in order to
assist the poor and are associated with things like soup kitchens. In
practice they're out to make money same as everyone else, they sell untested
garbage in their electronics section (no refund/exchange), and the store
staff are sleepy and rude. I don't shop there as a matter of principle.

> Where's here? Never heard of Zellers.


Canada. The place where grocery chains have Grand Guignol names like Price
Chopper. :-p

> I just did a quick search online and found ONE pair of jeans at Wal*Mart
> for $8. Since I don't wear men's clothing doesn't do me any good Most
> of the (adult) jeans are $14-$25.


Different stuff is cheap at different times. Men's clothing usually costs
less than women's. The real saving is in clothing for young kids under 10,
because it can be handed down to the next kid about five times.
>
> Perhaps. But Wal*Mart is an easy target because they're (attempting to)
> force themselves into communities where they aren't needed or wanted.
> They are far more aggressive about it than some of the other chains. When
> their building permit in Lady's Island, SC (a "suburb" of Beaufort) was
> denied for numerous reasons they appealed. Note: there's already a Super
> Wal*Mart only 10 miles from the proposed new location. When the appeal
> was denied they threatened to sue, as if it's their god given right to
> build a Wal*Mart anywhere they damn well please. That's what ticks people
> off.


It ticks people off, sure, but IMO it's just a flashy part of a much bigger
picture. What about sports stadiums and professional sports teams? If you
kin say "lawful embezzlement of public funds" it has to = the local baseball
stadium.


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"Blinky the Shark" > wrote in message
news
> The UnInmate wrote:
>
>>
>> "maxine in ri" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Jul 10, 3:59 pm, Tracy > wrote:
>>>> Just came across this the boston.com blog:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/food...ook_at_this_te....
>>>>
>>>> Kinda pricey though. The site has some interesting things.
>>>>
>>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> Whole Foods has a burlap bag that they've added a zip pouch around so
>>> that you can drop it in your bag. THey sell it for a ridiculous
>>> price, but do donate some of the money to some charitable group.
>>>
>>> Me, I get my bags at trade shows and cons.
>>>
>>> maxine in ri

>>
>> The local chain grocers sell canvas bags that cost 99 cents and hold
>> about 5
>> quarts by volume, which is just enough so the bag doesn't become too
>> heavy
>> when full. They're marketed as "green" shopping bags and have a stitched
>> design on the side that promotes recycling.

>
> The normal mainstream supermarket chain cloth one- or two-dollar
> (depending on when you bought them) bags I have are about 3.3 gallons by
> volume. The ones I see in the other normal mainstream supermarket chains
> seem to be the same size. I've never seen any grocery bags (other than
> specialty bags like for wine) that are small like the ones you cite.


I could be off on my measurements, but these things are definitely smaller
than a standard plastic grocery store bag. (Of course those vary by size too
so maybe there's no "standard.")


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jmcquown wrote:


> They also sell small totes for groceries for about $1.50 but they
> aren't big enough for more than a couple of bunches of produce.


You might be surprised. I'd passed on buying the canvas bags at
Schnucks because I thoought they were too small based on how they
looked folded up on the rack. Then I saw my sister's bags "in action".
It turns out they actually hold quite a bit.




Brian

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won't shut up.
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sf wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:10:34 -0400, George >
> wrote:
>
>> Now the third local walmart is literally moving across the street from
>> their current locations. The only problem with the current location is
>> that the nine year tax exemption is about to expire. When we (the
>> taxpayers) built the original site for them we acquired and developed
>> the land for them for free including running the utilities and
>> constructing a highway interchange at no cost to walmart and gave them a
>> nine year tax exemption. Now we are repeating that one by one as their
>> tax exemption expires. I would think one of the worlds richest families
>> and businesses could afford to pay taxes and pay for there own stuff.

>
> Who approved that move? Jill says WalMart can't pull that sh*t where
> her mom lives. The voters won't stand for it.
>
>

This is in PA. There are various funds available for "small business
development". Usually for things like lower interest rate loans for
startups etc. if you have a business plan that will bring good jobs to
an area. I would love to find out how walmart got itself classified as a
small business in need of assistance. I am assuming the right people got
new swimming pools or a free vacation. Unfortunately voters here are
rather apathetic. Too many people worship politicians instead of
realizing they are nothing but our employees. About 5 years ago *all* of
the local school board got sent to the country club prison because it
was mandatory to pay them to get a job or to get a contract to provide
any of the goods and services used by the school district. They got
taken down by an honest vendor who worked with law enforcement. After
they got out of jail they ran for office and all got reelected.

The interesting part is that if you actually have a small business with
potential it is next to impossible to get this money. I know someone who
has excellent business sense and a great niche product. He pays well and
his employees have real benefits. He is in business for around four
years and and so far has been unable even to get a loan for 1% less for
a bigger building. Walmart apparently just picks up the phone and gets
the ultra deluxe free land, free site development and no pesky taxes to
pay.
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The UnInmate > wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message news:l7-dnfXQ5N-
>
> > Consignment shops are places where you take "gently worn" clothing
> > (or in some cases, clothing you've never worn) to be sold. The
> > shop sets a price and gets a cut if the item sells.

>
> Don't know of that here, except for two thrift store chains that take
> donations of castoffs. They're supposed to be in existence in order to
> assist the poor and are associated with things like soup kitchens.


Thrift shops are totally different from consignment shops, as I explained.

> practice they're out to make money same as everyone else, they sell
> untested garbage in their electronics section (no refund/exchange),
> and the store staff are sleepy and rude. I don't shop there as a
> matter of principle.

The money in places you're referring to goes to charity and/or the soup
kitchen. I certainly wouldn't buy electronics there. The stuff is donated;
they don't have a staff to repair and provide warranties for electronics.
And the staff are usually volunteers, probably bored stiff.

>> just did a quick search online and found ONE pair of jeans at
> > Wal*Mart for $8. Since I don't wear men's clothing doesn't do me
> > any good Most of the (adult) jeans are $14-$25.

>
> Different stuff is cheap at different times. Men's clothing usually
> costs less than women's. The real saving is in clothing for young
> kids under 10, because it can be handed down to the next kid about
> five times.
> >

Since I don't have kids it matters not a whit to me if I can get a pair of
$8 boys jeans at Wal*Mart. I'm pretty sure I could get the same at a dollar
store, though, without buying into the big box mentality.

> > (attempting to) force themselves into communities where they aren't
> > needed or wanted. They are far more aggressive about it than some
> > of the other chains.

>
> It ticks people off, sure, but IMO it's just a flashy part of a much
> bigger picture. What about sports stadiums and professional sports
> teams? If you kin say "lawful embezzlement of public funds" it has to
> = the local baseball stadium.


Considering I don't live in the city limits my tax dollars don't go towards
sports anything. It's not my money nor does my opinion about such things
count. And I'm not sure what this has to do with big box stores running mom
& pop places out of business.

Jill



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Here is the best ever grocery tote. Every single time I use it people
stop me to ask me where I got it:

http://www.reusablebags.com/store/pa...ags-p-982.html

I own 2 of them and will probably get a few more in the future. It is
the perfect bag, holds a ton, and is inexpensive as well.

Sharon
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George wrote:
>
> Now the third local walmart is literally moving across the street from
> their current locations. The only problem with the current location is
> that the nine year tax exemption is about to expire. When we (the
> taxpayers) built the original site for them we acquired and developed
> the land for them for free including running the utilities and
> constructing a highway interchange at no cost to walmart and gave them a
> nine year tax exemption. Now we are repeating that one by one as their
> tax exemption expires. I would think one of the worlds richest families
> and businesses could afford to pay taxes and pay for there own stuff.




They didn't get to be the richest by paying taxes. That's for the poor
people who have a social conscience or are afraid of getting caught.

gloria p
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Tracy wrote:

> Weird. When you put your pointer over it in the boston.com story it says
> "vietmarketbag" but when you look at in the seller's website it says
> "Cambodian". I don't know what Cambodian or Vietnamese looks like....
> -Tracy


This being Usenet, I *know* someone will correct me if I'm wrong...
That looks clearly Vietnamese, to me. Cambodian uses a non-Western
alphabet, while Vietnamese adds a lot of diacrits to what's basically a
Western alphabet.

Dave
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Dave Bell wrote:

> Tracy wrote:
>
>> Weird. When you put your pointer over it in the boston.com story it says
>> "vietmarketbag" but when you look at in the seller's website it says
>> "Cambodian". I don't know what Cambodian or Vietnamese looks like....
>> -Tracy

>
> This being Usenet, I *know* someone will correct me if I'm wrong...
> That looks clearly Vietnamese, to me. Cambodian uses a non-Western
> alphabet, while Vietnamese adds a lot of diacrits to what's basically a
> Western alphabet.


Catholic influence:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/vietnamese.htm


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

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"Felice" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "KevinS" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jul 10, 12:59?pm, Tracy > wrote:
>
>> Just came across this the boston.com blog...

>
>> Kinda pricey though.

>
> $29?? Forget it. Based only on the picture, I might pay
> $10 - and that's a stretch.
>


I don't think it's a bad price at all. My bags sell for 2 times that much
(at least). I won't sell a bag under $40. It's not worth my time. You want
quailty, buy hand made, if you want crap that is mass produced ... there is
a walmart just around the corner.




> Pricey, yes, but more important, I'd want a translation before I carried
> it anywhere! Besides, I'm still using the two $1 bags from Shaw's that
> I've been using for at least six months!
>
> Felice
>





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"Default User" > wrote in message
...
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>
>> They also sell small totes for groceries for about $1.50 but they
>> aren't big enough for more than a couple of bunches of produce.

>
> You might be surprised. I'd passed on buying the canvas bags at
> Schnucks because I thoought they were too small based on how they
> looked folded up on the rack. Then I saw my sister's bags "in action".
> It turns out they actually hold quite a bit.
>
>
>
>
> Brian
>


That is very true. Some of the bags that I make are about the size of a
Trader Joe's paper bag, I can carry 60 pounds (not that I would want to, it
was a test) w/o the straps giving. I could have put in more weight, but *I*
couldn't carry it.


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Woolstitcher > wrote:
> "Default User" > wrote in message
> ...
> > jmcquown wrote:
> >
> >
> > > They also sell small totes for groceries for about $1.50 but they
> > > aren't big enough for more than a couple of bunches of produce.

> >
> > You might be surprised. I'd passed on buying the canvas bags at
> > Schnucks because I thoought they were too small based on how they
> > looked folded up on the rack. Then I saw my sister's bags "in
> > action". It turns out they actually hold quite a bit.
> >
> > Brian
> >

>
> That is very true. Some of the bags that I make are about the size
> of a Trader Joe's paper bag, I can carry 60 pounds (not that I would
> want to, it was a test) w/o the straps giving. I could have put in
> more weight, but *I* couldn't carry it.


I have a problem lifting a 10 lb. container of kitty litter. It's not
likely you'll find me carrying a tote containing 10 lbs. of any grocery
item, let alone 60 lbs. Nice that you tested it, though

Jill

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In article >,
Tracy > wrote:

> Just came across this the boston.com blog:
>
> http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/food...t_this_te.html
>
> Kinda pricey though. The site has some interesting things.
>
> Tracy


Am I the only person who uses tote bags of whatever material acquired
free of charge by way of various giveaways; e.g., trade shows? I bought
a cool one at the Museum of Women's Arts in DC -- made of polyester that
folds then rolls into a leetle pkg about the size of a Hostess Ho Ho or
Twinkie. I can't imagine paying for a bag. OTOH, I HAVE been known to
buy cosmetics I'm not 100% in need of in order to get the free cosmetic
bag‹but that's different! "-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
rec.food.cooking
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"Always in a jam. Never in a stew." - Evergene
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"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Tracy > wrote:
>
>> Just came across this the boston.com blog:
>>
>> http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/food...t_this_te.html
>>
>> Kinda pricey though. The site has some interesting things.
>>
>> Tracy

>
> Am I the only person who uses tote bags of whatever material acquired
> free of charge by way of various giveaways; e.g., trade shows? I bought
> a cool one at the Museum of Women's Arts in DC -- made of polyester that
> folds then rolls into a leetle pkg about the size of a Hostess Ho Ho or
> Twinkie. I can't imagine paying for a bag. OTOH, I HAVE been known to
> buy cosmetics I'm not 100% in need of in order to get the free cosmetic
> bag > --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> rec.food.cooking
> Preserved Fruit Administrator
> "Always in a jam. Never in a stew." - Evergene



Cloth bags. Given away free at the NYC Greenmarket.

http://www.cenyc.org/site/


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On Jul 11, 7:28�pm, "Woolstitcher" > wrote:

> I don't think it's a bad price at all. �My bags sell for 2 times
> (at least). I won't sell a bag under $40. It's not worth
> my .time. �You want quailty, buy hand made, if you want
> crap that is mass produced ... there is a walmart just
> around the corner.


I've never been to a Walmart and have no intention of going.
You say "My bags sell for 2 times (at least). I won't sell a
bag under $40". So you can't even do basic arithmetic.
You pontificate about the social status of f**king cloth
grocery bags and can't do 2x2 arithmetic. You're
another steaming pile of dogshit.


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On Fri 11 Jul 2008 07:28:51p, Woolstitcher told us...

>
> "Felice" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "KevinS" > wrote in message
>> .
>> .. On Jul 10, 12:59?pm, Tracy > wrote:
>>
>>> Just came across this the boston.com blog...

>>
>>> Kinda pricey though.

>>
>> $29?? Forget it. Based only on the picture, I might pay
>> $10 - and that's a stretch.
>>

>
> I don't think it's a bad price at all. My bags sell for 2 times that
> much (at least). I won't sell a bag under $40. It's not worth my time.
> You want quailty, buy hand made, if you want crap that is mass produced
> ... there is a walmart just around the corner.


How are your bags made? What materials? What size? I understand "hand
made", but what makes yours unique and special?

>> Pricey, yes, but more important, I'd want a translation before I
>> carried it anywhere! Besides, I'm still using the two $1 bags from
>> Shaw's that I've been using for at least six months!
>>
>> Felice
>>

>
>
>




--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 07(VII)/12(XII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Redundancy: A Politician with an
airbag in his car.
-------------------------------------------



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Blinky the Shark wrote:
> Dave Bell wrote:
>
>> Tracy wrote:
>>
>>> Weird. When you put your pointer over it in the boston.com story it says
>>> "vietmarketbag" but when you look at in the seller's website it says
>>> "Cambodian". I don't know what Cambodian or Vietnamese looks like....
>>> -Tracy

>> This being Usenet, I *know* someone will correct me if I'm wrong...
>> That looks clearly Vietnamese, to me. Cambodian uses a non-Western
>> alphabet, while Vietnamese adds a lot of diacrits to what's basically a
>> Western alphabet.

>
> Catholic influence:
>
> http://www.omniglot.com/writing/vietnamese.htm
>
>

Of course! Same thing St. Cyril accomplished for the Slavs, long ago.

As a side note there, I recognized most of the Cyrillic alphabet as
deriving from Greek (learned alongside Latin, back in the Dark Ages of
the 1950's and '60s.) But a few characters were distinctly different,
particularly those for ZH, SH, SHCH, CH, and TS. A few years ago the
penny dropped: The SH (a square-bottomed W) is just a Shem - the "extra"
letters were probably all borrowed from Hebrew...

Dave
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Fri 11 Jul 2008 07:28:51p, Woolstitcher told us...


>> I don't think it's a bad price at all. My bags sell for 2 times that
>> much (at least). I won't sell a bag under $40. It's not worth my time.
>> You want quailty, buy hand made, if you want crap that is mass produced
>> ... there is a walmart just around the corner.

>
> How are your bags made? What materials?


Hmm, "Woolstitcher"?

Dave
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Goomba wrote:
> The UnInmate wrote:
>
>> just too tempting because no other retailer even comes close.

> Sure there are. Consignment shops probably sell better brands for that.


Not in *my* universe! Consignment shops around here (Silicon Valley)
tend to be "boutiques" that sell high-end clothing at near-retail prices...

Dave
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> I bought a cool one at the Museum of Women's Arts in DC
> I can't imagine paying for a bag.


Eh? "bought", but "can't imagine paying" ?

> OTOH, I HAVE been known to buy cosmetics I'm not 100% in need of in order to get the free cosmetic
> bag‹but that's different! "-)


Yeah, Toni does that too...

Dave


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Default A really neat grocery tote

On Sat 12 Jul 2008 05:32:34p, hahabogus told us...

> Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
> 6.120:
>
>> On Fri 11 Jul 2008 07:28:51p, Woolstitcher told us...
>>
>>>
>>> "Felice" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> "KevinS" > wrote in message
>>>> news:a5a3cec1-0f76-45f2-bf5a-
>>>> . .. On Jul 10, 12:59?pm,
>>>> Tracy > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just came across this the boston.com blog...
>>>>
>>>>> Kinda pricey though.
>>>>
>>>> $29?? Forget it. Based only on the picture, I might pay
>>>> $10 - and that's a stretch.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think it's a bad price at all. My bags sell for 2 times that
>>> much (at least). I won't sell a bag under $40. It's not worth my time.
>>> You want quailty, buy hand made, if you want crap that is mass
>>> produced ... there is a walmart just around the corner.

>>
>> How are your bags made? What materials? What size? I understand
>> "hand made", but what makes yours unique and special?
>>
>>>> Pricey, yes, but more important, I'd want a translation before I
>>>> carried it anywhere! Besides, I'm still using the two $1 bags from
>>>> Shaw's that I've been using for at least six months!
>>>>
>>>> Felice
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>

>
> Round these parts weavers are brading recycled plastic shopping bags into
> 'rope' and then knotting into net shopping bags.
>


That kind I could live without, much less pay $40 for one.

--
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Saturday, 07(VII)/12(XII)/08(MMVIII)
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Default A really neat grocery tote

On Sat 12 Jul 2008 04:29:43p, Dave Bell told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Fri 11 Jul 2008 07:28:51p, Woolstitcher told us...

>
>>> I don't think it's a bad price at all. My bags sell for 2 times that
>>> much (at least). I won't sell a bag under $40. It's not worth my time.
>>> You want quailty, buy hand made, if you want crap that is mass produced
>>> ... there is a walmart just around the corner.

>>
>> How are your bags made? What materials?

>
> Hmm, "Woolstitcher"?
>
> Dave


Well, possibly, but somehow it's hard for me to believe it would be a wool
shopping bag, but then...

--
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Default A really neat grocery tote

Dave Bell wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>> Dave Bell wrote:
>>
>>> Tracy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Weird. When you put your pointer over it in the boston.com story it says
>>>> "vietmarketbag" but when you look at in the seller's website it says
>>>> "Cambodian". I don't know what Cambodian or Vietnamese looks like....
>>>> -Tracy
>>> This being Usenet, I *know* someone will correct me if I'm wrong...
>>> That looks clearly Vietnamese, to me. Cambodian uses a non-Western
>>> alphabet, while Vietnamese adds a lot of diacrits to what's basically a
>>> Western alphabet.

>>
>> Catholic influence:
>>
>> http://www.omniglot.com/writing/vietnamese.htm
>>
>>

> Of course! Same thing St. Cyril accomplished for the Slavs, long ago.
>
> As a side note there, I recognized most of the Cyrillic alphabet as
> deriving from Greek (learned alongside Latin, back in the Dark Ages of
> the 1950's and '60s.) But a few characters were distinctly different,
> particularly those for ZH, SH, SHCH, CH, and TS. A few years ago the
> penny dropped: The SH (a square-bottomed W) is just a Shem - the "extra"
> letters were probably all borrowed from Hebrew...


You'd have thought the Hebrews would've asked for them back by now.


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