I before E except after C
Or when sounding like A
As in neighbor or weigh.


We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
handy. So far, I've come up with:


caffeine
Sheila
weird.


Can y'all think of others?


--Lia

In article >, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>I before E except after C
>Or when sounding like A
>As in neighbor or weigh.
>
>We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
>I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
>handy. So far, I've come up with:
>
>caffeine
>Sheila
>weird.
>
>Can y'all think of others?

receive


Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

(Phred) wrote:
> In article >, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
> >I before E except after C
> >Or when sounding like A
> >As in neighbor or weigh.
>
> >We all know that rhyme. �I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
> >I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. �Something Sheila would find
> >handy. �So far, I've come up with:
>
> >caffeine
> >Sheila
> >weird.
>
> >Can y'all think of others?
>
> receive

That's not an exception, that's e after c.

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
>I before E except after C
> Or when sounding like A
> As in neighbor or weigh.
>
>
> We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so I
> can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find handy.
> So far, I've come up with:
>
>
> caffeine
> Sheila
> weird.
>
>
> Can y'all think of others?
>
>
> --Lia

I know it's a proper name but it is quite well known - Breitling doesn't
follow the rule.
Hoges in WA

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> I before E except after C
> Or when sounding like A
> As in neighbor or weigh.
>
>
> We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
> I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
> handy. So far, I've come up with:
>
>
> caffeine
> Sheila
> weird.
>
>
> Can y'all think of others?

beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist,
leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik,
society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight,
weir, weird

(from http://alt-usage-english.org/I_before_E.html )

Serene

--
"I think I have an umami receptor that has developed sentience." -- Stef

Hoges wrote on Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:08:22 GMT:


> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I before E except after C
>> Or when sounding like A
>> As in neighbor or weigh.
>>
>> We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of
>> exceptions so I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila
>> would find handy. So far, I've come up with:
>>
>> caffeine
>> Sheila
>> weird.
>>
>> Can y'all think of others?
>>
>> --Lia

>I know it's a proper name but it is quite well known - Breitling
>doesn't follow the rule.

But Breitling is probably of German derivation and the rule does not
apply in German where "ie" and "ei" indicate different sounds.

..


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Hoges in WA" > wrote:
> "Julia Altshuler" wrote
>
> >I before E except after C
> > Or when sounding like A
> > As in neighbor or weigh.
>
> > We all know that rhyme. �I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so I
> > can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. �Something Sheila would find handy.
> > So far, I've come up with:
>
> > caffeine
> > Sheila
> > weird.
>
> > Can y'all think of others?
>
> I know it's a proper name but it is quite well known - Breitling doesn't
> follow the rule.

If it's pronounced Braytling it does.

Spelling and pronunciation rules don't apply to proper nouns, they can
be spelled and pronounced many ways and usually are... and you're in
Australia... hehe

Serene Vannoy wrote:
>
> beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
> dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
> foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
> greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist,
> leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
> rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik,
> society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight,
> weir, weird
>
> (from http://alt-usage-english.org/I_before_E.html )

ancient

Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> I before E except after C
> Or when sounding like A
> As in neighbor or weigh.
>
> We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
> I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
> handy. So far, I've come up with:
>
> caffeine
> Sheila
> weird.
>
> Can y'all think of others?

Just to demonstrate how lame that teaching is, lets just take the
part, I before E *EXCEPT AFTER C* and maul that to death:

Conscience
Science
Conscient
Ancient
Ancienter
Societies (An oxymoron of the "except after C" rule itself)
Glacier

Anything ending in "...cies", as in "inaccuracies" or "eminencies"

Anything ending in "...cient" or ...ciency", as in "efficient" or
"efficiency" or "deficiency"

Anything ending in "...cier", as in "bouncier" or "chancier" or
"Fancier".

Fact is, the "except after C rule" is complete bullshit and should
never be taught to children. The vast majority of the time it's
*NOT* an exception.

And yes - I came up with that list myself. I used to play a lot of
Scrabble(tm).

I could give you 200+ words that violate the "ei/ie" rule as well,
but that's not as challenging.

-sw

Phred wrote:

> In article >, Julia
> Altshuler > wrote:
>>I before E except after C
>>Or when sounding like A
>>As in neighbor or weigh.
>>
>>We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
>>I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
>>handy. So far, I've come up with:
>>
>>caffeine
>>Sheila
>>weird.
>>
>>Can y'all think of others?
>
> receive

Uh...rethink?



--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
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Hoges in WA wrote:

>
> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I before E except after C
>> Or when sounding like A
>> As in neighbor or weigh.
>>
>>
>> We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so I
>> can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find handy.
>> So far, I've come up with:
>>
>>
>> caffeine
>> Sheila
>> weird.
>>
>>
>> Can y'all think of others?
>>
>>
>> --Lia
>
> I know it's a proper name but it is quite well known - Breitling doesn't
> follow the rule.

Origin of the words make a difference. For example, Heineken. German
words commonly break our rule, because our rule is for English.


--
Blinky
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Great list!


I'm putting the words in 4 categories:
Ones that sound like A.
Ones that are so unusual you'd be looking them up in the dictionary anyway.
Ones that the i and the e are in 2 different syllables.
Ones that are perfect for my purposes.


Sound like A: beige, deign, dreidel, eight, feign, feint, freight,
heinous, heir, neigh, neighbor, peignoir, rein, surfeit, veil, vein, weight,


Too unusual: cleidoic, gleization, gneiss, greisen, seiche, seidel,
seine, teiid, weir


Different syllables: conscience, deify, diety, prescient, science society,


Perfect: codeine, eider, either, feisty, foreign, forfeit, greige (not
unusual to me 'cuz I work with fabric and greige goods) (although it
sounds like A so maybe it should go in the above category), heifer,
heigh-ho, height, heist, leitmotiv, neither, seismic, seize, sheik,
sovereign, weird.


So I need to create a rhyme from that last category. Thanks. (How did
you do it so fast?)


--Lia


Serene Vannoy wrote:
>
> beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
> dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
> foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
> greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist,
> leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
> rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik,
> society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight,
> weir, weird
>
> (from http://alt-usage-english.org/I_before_E.html )
>
> Serene
>

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Great list!
>
>
> I'm putting the words in 4 categories:
> Ones that sound like A.
> Ones that are so unusual you'd be looking them up in the dictionary anyway.
> Ones that the i and the e are in 2 different syllables.
> Ones that are perfect for my purposes.
>
>
> Sound like A: beige, deign, dreidel, eight, feign, feint, freight,
> heinous, heir, neigh, neighbor, peignoir, rein, surfeit, veil, vein, weight,

Heir has a long A sound?

> Too unusual: cleidoic, gleization, gneiss, greisen, seiche, seidel,
> seine, teiid, weir
>
>
> Different syllables: conscience, deify, diety, prescient, science society,

For the record, those are called diphthongs.


--
Blinky
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On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:59:55 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>I before E except after C
>Or when sounding like A
>As in neighbor or weigh.
>
>
>We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
>I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
>handy. So far, I've come up with:
>
>
>caffeine
>Sheila
>weird.
>
>
>Can y'all think of others?
>
No, but now I know why I can't spell worth a tinker's damn.




--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Jul 13, 11:19*am, Serene Vannoy > wrote:
> Julia Altshuler wrote:
> > I before E except after C
> > Or when sounding like A
> > As in neighbor or weigh.
>
> > We all know that rhyme. *I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
> > I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. *Something Sheila would find
> > handy. *So far, I've come up with:
>
> > caffeine
> > Sheila
> > weird.
>
> > Can y'all think of others?
>
> beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
> dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
> foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
> greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist,
> leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
> rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik,
> society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight,
> weir, weird
>

But...many of the words in your list fit into the "sounded like A"
category:
beige, deign, dreidel (not an english word so it doesn't really count
anyway), eider, eight, feign, feigt, freight, heir, heinous, neighbor
(one of the examples in the rhyme), peignoir, rein, Seine (a french
Proper Noun), veil, vein, weight (a variant of one of hte examples in
the rhyme).
And Some of them are spelled "ie": science, society


> (fromhttp://alt-usage-english.org/I_before_E.html)
>
> Serene
>
> --
> "I think I have an umami receptor that has developed sentience." -- Stef

It's a guideline, not a rule.
In general, most ONE SYLLABLE english words follow the i before except
after c rhyme.
when the two vowels are pronounced in separate syllables, all bets are
off.
In latin rooted words, an I following a G or C usually is there to
"soften" the consonent. The first baseman for the NY Yankees' last
name has 2 syllables, not 3: Jason Giambi is correctly pronounced: Jom-
bi, not jee-om-bi. If the I weren't there, his name would be
pronounced "gom-bi" (not unlike Gumby).
Ancient: the i is there to soften the C.....if it weren;t there, it
would be an-kent. Though some could argue it's actually the 2nd
syllable of the word (an-see-ent) but that's a stretch.

On Jul 13, 12:44*pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> > I before E except after C
> > Or when sounding like A
> > As in neighbor or weigh.
>
> > We all know that rhyme. *I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
> > I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. *Something Sheila would find
> > handy. *So far, I've come up with:
>
> > caffeine
> > Sheila
> > weird.
>
> > Can y'all think of others?
>
> Just to demonstrate how lame that teaching is, lets just take the
> part, I before E *EXCEPT AFTER C* and maul that to death:
>
> Conscience
> Science
> Conscient
> Ancient
> Ancienter
> Societies (An oxymoron of the "except after C" rule itself)
> Glacier
>
> Anything ending in "...cies", as in "inaccuracies" or "eminencies"
>
> Anything ending in "...cient" or ...ciency", as in "efficient" or
> "efficiency" or "deficiency" *
>
> Anything ending in "...cier", as in "bouncier" or "chancier" or
> "Fancier".
>
> Fact is, the "except after C rule" is complete bullshit and should
> never be taught to children. *The vast majority of the time it's
> *NOT* an exception.
>
> And yes - I came up with that list myself. *I used to play a lot of
> Scrabble(tm).
>
> I could give you 200+ words that violate the "ei/ie" rule as well,
> but that's not as challenging.
>
> -sw

In article . net>,
Blinky the Shark > wrote:

> > Sound like A: beige, deign, dreidel, eight, feign, feint, freight,
> > heinous, heir, neigh, neighbor, peignoir, rein, surfeit, veil, vein, weight,
>
> Heir has a long A sound?

I've always pronounced heir as air. I've always pronounced air with a
long 'a'. But I stand to be corrected.

leo

Leonard Blaisdell wrote:

> In article . net>,
> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>
>> > Sound like A: beige, deign, dreidel, eight, feign, feint, freight,
>> > heinous, heir, neigh, neighbor, peignoir, rein, surfeit, veil, vein,
>> > weight,
>>
>> Heir has a long A sound?
>
> I've always pronounced heir as air. I've always pronounced air with a
> long 'a'. But I stand to be corrected.

As ay-er?


--
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Killing all posts from Google Groups
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In article .net>,
Blinky the Shark > wrote:

> Leonard Blaisdell wrote:

> > I've always pronounced heir as air. I've always pronounced air with a
> > long 'a'. But I stand to be corrected.
>
> As ay-er?

Arrr, ye old sea shark. Ayer be correct to me blighted self. Or to me
mind's eye as it were.

leo 'it's getting late'

just an old lurker here; the original poem(?) goes.........

i before e, except after c
or when sounded like "a"
like in neighbor or weigh
exceptions:
neither financier seized either species of weird leisure

My family doctor screws me up because his name is Peirce

In article .net>, Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>Phred wrote:
>
>> In article >, Julia
>> Altshuler > wrote:
>>>I before E except after C
>>>Or when sounding like A
>>>As in neighbor or weigh.
>>>
>>>We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
>>>I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
>>>handy. So far, I've come up with:
>>>
>>>caffeine
>>>Sheila
>>>weird.
>>>
>>>Can y'all think of others?
>>
>> receive
>
>Uh...rethink?

Widen your outlook. ;-)

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Paulette wrote:
>
> exceptions:
> neither financier seized either species of weird leisure


Perfect! This is the sort of mmemonic that I was thinking of.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Paulette wrote:
>>
>> exceptions:
>> neither financier seized either species of weird leisure
>
>
> Perfect! This is the sort of mmemonic that I was thinking of.

But now you need a mnemonic to help you spell "mnemonic".


--
Blinky
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Phred wrote:

> In article .net>, Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>>Phred wrote:
>>
>>> In article >, Julia
>>> Altshuler > wrote:
>>>>I before E except after C
>>>>Or when sounding like A
>>>>As in neighbor or weigh.
>>>>
>>>>We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of exceptions so
>>>>I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila would find
>>>>handy. So far, I've come up with:
>>>>
>>>>caffeine
>>>>Sheila
>>>>weird.
>>>>
>>>>Can y'all think of others?
>>>
>>> receive
>>
>>Uh...rethink?
>
> Widen your outlook. ;-)

I still don't see where "receive" is an exception to the canonical rule.
Perhaps you can explain why you offered it as one.

--
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James Silverton wrote:
> Hoges wrote on Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:08:22 GMT:
>
>
>> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I before E except after C
>>> Or when sounding like A
>>> As in neighbor or weigh.
>>>
>>> We all know that rhyme. I'm trying to construct a list of
>>> exceptions so I can make up a new rhyme or mnemonic. Something Sheila
>>> would find handy. So far, I've come up with:
>>>
>>> caffeine
>>> Sheila
>>> weird.
>>>
>>> Can y'all think of others?
>>>
>>> --Lia
>
>> I know it's a proper name but it is quite well known - Breitling
>> doesn't follow the rule.
>
> But Breitling is probably of German derivation and the rule does not
> apply in German where "ie" and "ei" indicate different sounds.

Einstein does it twice.

Becca

protein

Lynn in Phargeaux

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:19:20 -0700, Serene Vannoy
> wrote:

>beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
>dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
>foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
>greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist,
>leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
>rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik,
>society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight,
>weir, weird

rottweiler

Jo Anne

Jo wrote on Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:36:59 -0400:

>> beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
>> dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
>> foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
>> greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist,
>> leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
>> rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik,
>> society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight,
>> weir, weird

> rottweiler

An impressive list indeed! However, there is a pattern in that many of
them have "ei" pronounced as in "hay" or are recently derived from
foreign words. I'll bow to your erudition since I have never seen
"gleization", "greige" and "greisen" . How on earth did you ever find
them? I'd not seen "seiche" before but, on looking up that one, I find
that Merriam-Webster has nearly two full columns of "sei" words :-)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not