notbob wrote:
> On 2008-07-16, Shanghai McCoy > wrote:
>
>> If it was pasteurized, cloudy, and sour (citrus).....
>
> Whoa whoa whoa! Citrous flavor is not synonymous with sour. A good
> CA-style or American-style pale ale should have citrous overtones to it by
> design. Both the type of hops and the type of yeast can be manipulated to
> produce everything from a very sweet orange flavor to a dry graprefruit.
> With hops, it's usually a citrous aroma and with the yeast a citrus flavor.
>
> I was pleasantly surprised to learn this from my brewing mentor, as adding a
> citrus slice, usually lemon, to weissbier (wheat beer) is a common in many
> West Coast taverns. It was a pleasure to drink beer that needed no added
> fruit slice to get the same effect and was usually better.
>
> nb
>

We're not talking IPA here... I believe the OP referred to a citrus /
sour taste in a cloudy glass of of Coors and a Keystone... both from a
can...

On 2008-07-16, Mark Thorson > wrote:

> I wonder why they don't make it that way delibrately.

For the same reason most ppl drink box wine instead of good wine. They
don't know any better. Before I met a home beer brewer, I too drank bud
canoe beer. I liked the occasional grolsch or Singha, but I mostly drank
bud. I used to say, "I'm not going to pay $8 for a sixer of beer anyone can
make for $30 in a plastic garbage can!" Little did I know.

Even when I met my brewing mentor, I didn't like heavy porters and strong
ales. I thought Bigfoot Barleywine was the nastiest stuff on the planet.
But, he had 16 beers on tap at all times. All homebrewed and all fabulous.
During each drinking bout, he'd start me on his best German pilsners till I
got a bit tipsy. Then he's start introducing me to stronger beers like pale
ales and IPAs. By the end of the night we'd both be hammered and I'd crash
in the guest room. This went on for a full Summer while he showed how beer
was brewed. His beer selection was ever changing. Such aromas, such
flavors. It was heaven. Now I can never go back to canoe.

I was in the process of converting another buddy when I moved. He, having
more disposable income, always drank Euro-swill.... Becks, Heiniken, etc.
I'd bring over an IPA. He didn't like it. Wouldn't drink it. So I
backpeddled. Brought over a sixer of Blue Moon, a suprisingly good Coors
rendition of a Belgian witbier (white beer, with coriander, orange peel,
etc). Mmmm... he liked that! If I'd had more time, I'd have turned him.

If a person has been drinking swill all their life, hard to convince them
it's swill. They like it. But, if you take it slow and educate their
palate, they will see the light. Good is good.

nb

Shanghai McCoy wrote:
>
> We're not talking IPA here... I believe the OP referred to a citrus /
> sour taste in a cloudy glass of of Coors and a Keystone... both from a
> can...

It wasn't sour at all. It did have a citrus-like note.

On 2008-07-16, Shanghai McCoy > wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>> On 2008-07-16, Shanghai McCoy > wrote:

>>> If it was pasteurized, cloudy, and sour (citrus).....
>
> We're not talking IPA here...

I mentioned nothing about an IPA.


> I believe the OP referred to a citrus /
> sour...

I was not replying to the OP, but to you and your above statement, "If it
was.... sour (citrus)", which to me looks like you are equating citrus with
sour, which I dispute.

nb

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Shanghai McCoy wrote:
>> We're not talking IPA here... I believe the OP referred to a citrus /
>> sour taste in a cloudy glass of of Coors and a Keystone... both from a
>> can...
>
> It wasn't sour at all. It did have a citrus-like note.

My bad - I thought I saw 'sour' in your original post... my point was
that a Coors or Keystone shouldn't be cloudy or citrusy..

Mark Thorson wrote:
> anonymousNetUser wrote:
>> It's conceivable that you did experience a few cans that didn't quite
>> finish the pasteurization process and did indeed continue to age (and
>> improve) in the can on their way to you. Not all beer styles improve
>> with age, but most do.
>
> I wonder why they don't make it that way delibrately.
> It was good enough for me to notice and remember
> for years.

They don't do it that way deliberately because they lose quality control
if they don't pasteurize. Just as the beer can age and improve, if
stored incorrectly, it can go bad also.

Too many stores store beer too warm--think large warehouses in the depth
of summer. If the beer gets too warm, and the yeast continue to
multiply, the bottle or can can explode from the pressure. In
homebrewing terms, where the yeast is still active in the bottles, this
is called "bottle bombs."

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Shanghai McCoy wrote:
>> We're not talking IPA here... I believe the OP referred to a citrus /
>> sour taste in a cloudy glass of of Coors and a Keystone... both from a
>> can...
>
> It wasn't sour at all. It did have a citrus-like note.

Another possibility was that it came from a brewery that does multiple
beer types and they accidentally canned the wrong kind in a batch. It's
rare, but it happens.

Someone accidentally loads a batch of "Bob Six Pack" cans on the
automated machinery when the vat they're processing has "FuFu Brand"
instead.

Hops and yeast can both contribute a citrus note to beer, as can some of
the bacteria that can spoil beer. Some beers are purposely "spoiled" by
introducing selected types of bacteria (various types of Brettanomyces
being common).

You might have gotten a batch that was only a little bit spoiled, or
spoiled by the right type of bacteria.

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> Nancy2 wrote:
>> > On Jul 14, 2:24 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
>> >> Andy wrote:
>> >>> Goodbye Budweiser!
>> >>
>> >>> Depending on the shareholder vote, Anheiser Busch will become the
>> >>> property of !Bev a Belgium company.
>> >>
>> >>> There goes the neighborhood.
>> >>
>> >>> I shall not be drinking Bud Light any longer.
>> >>
>> >> Funny, but that is what a lot of people think when American
>> >> businesses take over their local operations. At least the Belgians
>> >> make good beer.
>> >
>> > Somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm thinking the Clydesdales are
>> > Belgian - are they?
>>
>> There are work horses called Belgians. I don't know how they
>> differ from Clydesdales.
>>
>> nancy
>
> They are all large, solidly-built types. Meant to pull heavy wagons,
> ploughs etc. Still used as work horses; cheaper to feed than tractors

Welcome back to the good old days!

TFM®

anonymousNetUser wrote:
>
> Another possibility was that it came from a brewery that does multiple
> beer types and they accidentally canned the wrong kind in a batch. It's
> rare, but it happens.

In all three cases, it was only a single can in a 12-pack
that was affected.

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>>Oh come on Nancy2. You must have your head in the sand. American companies
>>have
>>bought up companies and property around the world. They and the government
>>have
>>supported corrupt and oppressive regimes in order to protect their
>>interests. They
>>have interfered in elections and had a hand in coups and even supported
>>tyrants like
>>Saddam Hussein. A lot of the goods now coming from third world countries
>>are
>>manufactured by American or other foreign owned companies who moved
>>their operations
>>there to take advantage of lower wages and lax employment and
>>environmental laws.
>>Saudis do own a lot of American business and American debt. You can thank
>>your
>>government for helping to keep the House of Saud in power.
>
> You're right. It's all dirty. The only fully ethical approach
> is to become an anarchist localvore dropout who does not
> participate in the economy.
>
> Since most people don't want to do this, the next best
> thing is to limit your consumption of evil-associated
> items like energy products and slave-labor manufactured goods.
>
> What doesn't add up is to be a mindless, prolific consumer and
> THEN complain about all the capitalist malfeasance around
> the world. And/or to assert that your own government is somehow
> less guilty of bad behavior than anyone else's.
>
> Steve

And this was a beer conversation.

The world has been corrupt since someone decided to elect a leader.

Lead us into war, death, famine, plague.

But I'm just a Moonie, what do I know?


TFM®

anonymousNetUser wrote:
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>> anonymousNetUser wrote:
>>> It's conceivable that you did experience a few cans that didn't
>>> quite finish the pasteurization process and did indeed continue to
>>> age (and improve) in the can on their way to you. Not all beer
>>> styles improve with age, but most do.
>>
>> I wonder why they don't make it that way delibrately.
>> It was good enough for me to notice and remember
>> for years.
>
> They don't do it that way deliberately because they lose quality
> control if they don't pasteurize. Just as the beer can age and
> improve, if stored incorrectly, it can go bad also.
>
> Too many stores store beer too warm--think large warehouses in the
> depth of summer. If the beer gets too warm, and the yeast continue to
> multiply, the bottle or can can explode from the pressure. In
> homebrewing terms, where the yeast is still active in the bottles,
> this is called "bottle bombs."

It's not the yeast that causes the bottles to explode, it's the priming
sugar.

kili

kilikini wrote on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:17:11 -0400:

> anonymousNetUser wrote:
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>> anonymousNetUser wrote:
>>>> It's conceivable that you did experience a few cans that
>>>> didn't quite finish the pasteurization process and did
>>>> indeed continue to age (and improve) in the can on their
>>>> way to you. Not all beer styles improve with age, but most do.
>>>
>>> I wonder why they don't make it that way delibrately.
>>> It was good enough for me to notice and remember
>>> for years.
>>
>> They don't do it that way deliberately because they lose
>> quality control if they don't pasteurize. Just as the beer
>> can age and improve, if stored incorrectly, it can go bad
>> also.
>>
>> Too many stores store beer too warm--think large warehouses
>> in the depth of summer. If the beer gets too warm, and the
>> yeast continue to multiply, the bottle or can can explode
>> from the pressure. In homebrewing terms, where the yeast is
>> still active in the bottles, this is called "bottle bombs."

> It's not the yeast that causes the bottles to explode, it's
> the priming sugar.

It's a matter of semantics; without the sugar the yeast would not
produce CO2.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 2008-07-16, anonymousNetUser > wrote:
>
> Too many stores store beer too warm--think large warehouses in the depth
> of summer. If the beer gets too warm, and the yeast continue to
> multiply......

This a major problem with many retail outlets. Not just storage, but moving
the beer. I've seen beer sitting in the sun waiting to me moved from truck
to warehouse. I stopped buying beer from Trader Joe's cuz much of it has
been abused. I also found a small local liquor I'll no longer deal with
because of two different bad six-paks of beer.

nb

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:33:42 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>
><sf> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:33:03 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >At any rate, I opened rfc this morning and the old post it
>> >opened was kili and sf talking about coors and whether
>> >it's imported and kili said that to her Coors is domestic as
>> >Bud.
>> >
>> >nancy (as always, easily amused by weird coincidences)
>>
>> Hey, Coors *was* imported into CA all the way from Colorado or
>> whatever state it was at the time (so said the ads). Her version and
>> my version of what imported meant were a little different, that's all.
>>
>> Still defending my POV!
>> LOL
>
>
>Yup...remember in the mid - 70's when President Ford was in CO for something
>and it was reported that cases of Coor's were delivered to Air Force One to
>take back to DC...also I knew college classmates that would take ski trips
>out to CO and bring back cases of Coor's to sell (college was in IL) They'd
>finance their trips that way...
>

i thought it was henry kissinger behind the smuggling, another black
mark against him.

hmm, apparently it was both:

Former U.S. President Gerald Ford was known to return to the White
House with several cases of Coors aboard Air Force One, as would his
Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger.

<http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g1epc/is_tov/ai_2419100287>

dopey *******s.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:51:11 GMT, "l, not -l" > wrote:

>
>On 15-Jul-2008, sf wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:33:42 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In retrospect it was silly, it was just yer basic watery beer...
>>
>> But, but, but it was *imported* from Colorado in the days before
>> micro-brewed beer was hot! We also had Anchor Steam beer, which was
>> an SF icon.
>>
>> I wasn't much of a beer drinker, so I can only go by what others said.
>> Coors was the beer of ski trips as you mentioned - I suspect because
>> it didn't cost very much. Anchor was for grown ups, Coors was for
>> college kids. Actually, we didn't care what we ingested as long as we
>> got high.
>
>And Rolling Rock was great because of the funky little.bottles; many bars
>sold them by the bucket - several 8 oz bottles in a bucket of ice.
>Taste, who cares about taste after the first two, its about "lookin' good".

pocket rockets. once in while i'd get drunk and throw an empty from
the balcony. if you lofted them end-over-end, they would whistle
entertainingly on the way down.

your pal,
blake


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:03:44 -0700, sf wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:29:09 -0500, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>>l, not -l said...
>>
>>> And Rolling Rock was great because of the funky little.bottles; many bars
>>> sold them by the bucket - several 8 oz bottles in a bucket of ice.
>>> Taste, who cares about taste after the first two, its about "lookin' good".
>>
>>
>>l, not -L,
>>
>>Rolling Rock is ****water! Might as well drink at the urinal. Save yourslf
>>the trouble.
>>
>I think l, not l was talking about college. In those days, price
>mattered and a cheap high was much better than no high at all.

at least you weren't at military school making jailhouse wine.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:39:24 -0700, anonymousNetUser
> wrote:

>Janet Wilder wrote:
>> Arri London wrote:
>>>
>>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>>> On Jul 14, 2:24 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
>>>>> Andy wrote:
>>>>>> Goodbye Budweiser!
>>>>>> Depending on the shareholder vote, Anheiser Busch will become the
>>>>>> property of
>>>>>> !Bev a Belgium company.
>>>>>> There goes the neighborhood.
>>>>>> I shall not be drinking Bud Light any longer.
>>>>> Funny, but that is what a lot of people think when American
>>>>> businesses take over
>>>>> their local operations. At least the Belgians make good beer.
>>>> Somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm thinking the Clydesdales are
>>>> Belgian - are they?
>>>>
>>>> N.
>>>
>>> No, originally from Scotland. Doubt the Belgian company would get rid
>>> of them...cheapest
>>> advertising/marketing tools they can have. No expensive contracts for
>>> fussy personnel
>>
>> Have you ever seen the stable in St. Louis? Many people would be
>> thrilled to have a home half as nice as that stable. A lot of the
>> buildings at the brewery in St. Louis are on the National Historic
>> Register, too. What happens when foreigners buy something on the
>> National Historic Register? Does anyone know?????
>>
>
>All it means is that the place has been deemed worthy of keeping around.
>There are tax incentives to maintain them, so ownership isn't really a
>determining factor.

it also generally means you can't alter the building without approval.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jul 15, 7:19*pm, Arri London > wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>
> > On 2008-07-15, Steve Pope > wrote:
>
> > > There was a Sonoma winery that used Belgian draft horses to
> > > work the vineyards, two decades ago before the biodynamic
> > > trend was even beginning. * Bellerose Vineyards. * Made a lovely,
> > > stylish cabernet in a soft, Margaux style. *I think they have been
> > > bought out but the label still exists.
>
> > We may see a revival trend, now that deisel fuel is so insanely high. *OTOH,
> > can't be cheap feeding the biggest horses on the planet. *
>
> > nb
>
> No, but at least their 'output' has some use LOL. Besides, when was the
> last time you were friends with your car/truck?

And they can move on their own. Has anyone ever seen a milk wagon in
action. The milkman could deliver the milk (on foot) while the horse
moved the wagon on to the next stop.

The same thing applied in haying or using a stone boat. One person
could load and the horse(s) moved on voice command. Get a tractor to
do that.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

On Jul 15, 4:17*pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2008-07-15, John Kane > wrote:
>
> > I believe you were mixing up Clydesdales with Percherons which I
> > always think of as Belgian although a quick look at a wiki suggests
> > the name is from Northern France.
>
> BINGO!!
>
> Those Coors draft horses I saw at the rodeo WERE Percherons. *I knew
> "Belgian" didn't sound quite right. *Googling for coors and horse and such,
> it appears Coors did use Belgians primarily, but I know for a fact the one's
> at the Livermore Rodeo were Percherons because the signs said so, all 2200
> lbs of them. *I've yet to see a horse that big, again. *Wow.
>
> nb

I once met a Percheron stallion coming down the lane at a country
fair. Was he big!!

We have a family here that do wagon/sleigh rides, carriages for
weddings and so on, and they have some lovely Percheron/Hackney
crosses. The horses look like a Percheron but are not as big.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

kilikini wrote:
> anonymousNetUser wrote:
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>> anonymousNetUser wrote:
>>>> It's conceivable that you did experience a few cans that didn't
>>>> quite finish the pasteurization process and did indeed continue to
>>>> age (and improve) in the can on their way to you. Not all beer
>>>> styles improve with age, but most do.
>>> I wonder why they don't make it that way delibrately.
>>> It was good enough for me to notice and remember
>>> for years.
>> They don't do it that way deliberately because they lose quality
>> control if they don't pasteurize. Just as the beer can age and
>> improve, if stored incorrectly, it can go bad also.
>>
>> Too many stores store beer too warm--think large warehouses in the
>> depth of summer. If the beer gets too warm, and the yeast continue to
>> multiply, the bottle or can can explode from the pressure. In
>> homebrewing terms, where the yeast is still active in the bottles,
>> this is called "bottle bombs."
>
> It's not the yeast that causes the bottles to explode, it's the priming
> sugar.

Technically, it's both... the yeast are what create the CO2 (carbon
dioxide), but it's from eating the priming sugar. Use too much priming
sugar, or have too much unconverted sugar in the original wort (from an
incomplete primary fermentation) and the bottles can go boom.

I was trying to answer the question without going into an entire manual
on homebrewing.