On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:48:07 -0600, Gloria P >
wrote:

>Dimitri wrote:
>
>>
>> Our wonderful free enterprise system does have certain drawbacks and the
>> airlines are one area. We all wanted lower and lower and lower fares -
>> well we got them!
>>
>> Traveling used to be fun, luxurious, and you were treated like a valued
>> customer. Not so any more. Deregulation has created WAL MART AIR and
>> that is what we are forced to fly. Don't like it? Take your business
>> to another side of the airport.
>>
>
>
>The trouble is that much of the American public has turned into
>obese, uncouth bozos. They fly dirty, smelly, unkempt, half-dressed
>and don't give a d@mn.

The smelly part is just as bad as the obesity. I sat next to a guy
who stunk and had halitosis. Miserable flight.

Lou

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Oh, you were clear and I don't think you're crazy. (laugh)


Sorry. I'm oversensitive at the moment. I've finally found a doctor I
like and trust and can talk to, but I'm frustrated communicating through
the front-desk receptionist. I figure it's my doom to be misunderstood.


--Lia

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:48:33 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>
>"sf" wrote in message news
>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The only place Business Class matters is on International Flights.
>>
>> Please believe me when I say BTDT business international. The biggest
>> difference I saw was business got individual cd players, economy
>> didn't. We also had double seats, no triples... but I wouldn't bet
>> money that they were any more spacious than economy in width or
>> distance between rows. Like I said, it's closer (physically) to first
>> class, that's about it. I think of Business as the buffer zone
>> between 1st class and the great unwashed in economy.
>>>
>>>Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.
>>
>> I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called airships for
>> nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my grandparents going
>> "somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
>> http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg
>
>
>That is when people dressed to travel.
>
>
>Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to Chicago DC 10's?
>
>That's when you could move around play cards and get a little hammered.
>
>The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail.
>
>:-)

that was also when only fairly well-off people flew. others took the
bus, drove, or stayed the hell home.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> This is an excellent point, and I think, the heart of the matter. We
> all love to complain about obese people when we think they have a choice
> as to whether or not they want to be fat. (Clue: They generally
> don't.)

I agree, I don't believe anyone wants to be fat. But more often than not
it is in their control and they've decided that becoming or remaining
fat is preferable to the hard work required to be slimmer.

Lou Decruss wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:04:11 -0700, sf wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:32:30 -0700, "Dimitri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Then to make matters worse to save fuel they stopped using the APU to filter
>>> and change the air in the cabin - ergo you might as well swap spit with
>>> everyone else on the plane.
>> Don't get me started on air quality! LOLOL
>
> The air quality automatically decreases when there's a 300 pound
> tubbie next to you.

Now that they've said "Airborne" doesn't work to keep you from getting
sick on an airplane, what should we do?

Janet, who took "Airborne" and didn't, coincidentally, get sick on a plane.


--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> I'm reminded of several years ago when the question was babies. Parents
> save money by saying their infants and toddlers will ride in their laps.
> The result is that the people sitting next to them put up with baby
> noise, baby kicking, and baby spilling over into the next seat. I was
> appalled. Gee, can I say that my boyfriend and are both thin so we'll
> save money by sharing a seat, then take half of yours?

I once traveled next to a yong woman with an 8 month-old baby. The kid's
diaper leaked on the mom and since her leg was touching mine, on me,
too. Then the kid puked. It got on me. I will never sit next to anyone
with a lap-baby again.

BTW, now they go by the age of the child. Any little one over two has to
purchase a seat. I think they should make it any little one over 2
months. Under that they aren't independently active and can be held in
such a way as not to puke on other passengers.

JMTCW



--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>
>> This might be a naive question, but wouldn't it be cheaper to go first
>> class or even business class? The seats are much larger.
>
>
> It really depends on the flight, the plane, and what sort of deal you
> were able to swing when buying tickets. Sometimes you can get an
> awfully good price such that 2 coach cost less than 1 first class.
>

That sounds reasonable. I don't fly that often to be aware of those
things. I did most of my business flying in the late 80's. Company paid
for the tickets. There was no "business class" back then.


--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> OB Food:
> Nut Goodie Bars
> Posted to rec.food.cooking by Barb Schaller, 7-17-2008
>
> ? 1 square unsweetened chocolate (1 oz.)
> ? 2 cups smooth peanut butter
> ? 1 package butterscotch chips (12 oz.)
> ? 12 ounces milk chocolate chips
> ? 1 cup margarine or butter
> ? 1/2 teaspoon maple flavor
> ? 1/3 cup evaporated milk (5 oz. can)
> ? 1/4 cup vanilla pudding mix (not instant)
> ? 2 # powdered sugar
> ? 2 cups Spanish peanuts
>
> Melt chocolate, peanut butter, butterscotch and chocolate chips. Spread
> half of mixture in buttered jelly roll pan. Put in freezer to set. Melt
> butter, milk and pudding mix; bring to boil for 1 minute. Add powdered
> sugar and maple flavoring. Spread over hardened chocolate and put back
> in freezer. Add 2 cups peanuts to remaining chocolate and put on top and
> replace in freezer.
>
> --
> Yield: 45 pieces

Next time I cheat on my diet, I am making this!

Becca

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>> Size and weight is not just a matter of obesity. Some people are bigger
>> than others and people from some cultures tend to be smaller than others.
>> People from China and Japan would probably have lots of room in the seats
>> on that Air Transat flight I took, but most North American men would find
>> it cramped. It is not unusual for reasonably fit NA men to be 6 feet
>> tall and weigh more close to 250, and weighing less than 150 does not
>> mean someone is skinny.
>
>
> This is an excellent point, and I think, the heart of the matter. We
> all love to complain about obese people when we think they have a choice
> as to whether or not they want to be fat. (Clue: They generally
> don't.)

Not sure if I agree with you 100% there, Lia. I know a lot of people
have 'medical issues' that can and do cause weight problems, but IME, many
people are obese simply because they over-eat and/or eat and drink all
the 'wrong' foods and beverages (e.g. fries, burgers, soda pop) 7 days a
week. In some cases, just eating a bit 'healthier' (and maybe doing some
form of exercise) can help folks lose a significant amount of weight - but
of course that choice is theirs.

> But it's a matter of size. Football players are tall and large
> too. It's all muscle, but it doesn't fit in the seat either. I don't
> care why a person is large; I don't want them in my seat. It's still up
> to the airline to make sure everyone has an adequate safe seat.

Heh. I am not holding my breath for the airlines to supply bigger seats any
time soon (at least not in 'economy' class).

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

Between the security inspections, the limitations of liquids in
carry-ons, and the new rules about luggage, flying is not fun.

I am going on a cruise in October, so I checked with Amtrak, and yes I
can travel from Louisiana to Florida this way;
Louisiana-Texas-Newark-Florida, and this takes 3 days. Nevermind.

One airline I like, is Allegiant. They added some leg room by removing
a few rows of seats, so you are not sitting so close to the people in
front of you. They do not make connecting flights, though.

Becca

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> > and weight is not just a matter of obesity. Some people are bigger
> > than others and people from some cultures tend to be smaller than others.
> > People from China and Japan would probably have lots of room in the seats
> > on that Air Transat flight I took, but most North American men would find
> > it cramped. It is not unusual for reasonably fit NA men to be 6 feet tall
> > and weigh more close to 250, and weighing less than 150 does not mean
> > someone is skinny.
>
> This is an excellent point, and I think, the heart of the matter. We
> all love to complain about obese people when we think they have a choice
> as to whether or not they want to be fat. (Clue: They generally
> don't.) But it's a matter of size. Football players are tall and large
> too. It's all muscle, but it doesn't fit in the seat either. I don't
> care why a person is large; I don't want them in my seat. It's still up
> to the airline to make sure everyone has an adequate safe seat.
>

I have to add that I was thinking more of big people ...like football players and
people with a similar build. A lot of business people who fly frequently fit into
this category. They are much bigger and taller than the average person, but not
necessarily obese. I am suggesting that airline seating should be such that it
would accommodated a person of that size. However, I might not be so generous
when it comes to those who are absolutely and massive obese. While no one chooses
to be that fat, they have a problem and if they cannot fit into a seat build for
a large, fit person they have a serious problem and need to deal with it. I don't
think that a second seat is an option, but there could be some seating available,
and they should probably pay a premium for them.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:36:35 +0200, ChattyCathy
> wrote:

>Serene Vannoy wrote:
>
>> ChattyCathy wrote:
>>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>>>
>>> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
>>
>> So now the surveys are off-topic, too? Great.
>
>I dunno, Serene. I think that on-topic/off-topic threads are often in
>the 'eye of the beholder' around here. I seem to remember a thread that
>went on and on about somebody's 'upset stomach' a while ago, and a great
>time was had by all discussing various drugs, treatments etc. for it. I
>mentioned that I thought it was a tad off-topic (and also that I thought it
>a bit of an 'icky' subject to discuss on r.f.c.) I was subsequently
>informed by a certain poster that it was still food-related, even if the
>food was 'on it's way out'. I must admit I hadn't seen it in quite that
>way, but I had to concede that s/he had a point...
>
>Therefore, IMO if diarrhea can be considered food-related so can this. After
>all, obesity is often caused by too much food 'going in', is it not?

IMO obesity and it's effect on others sure is on topic. But you'll
notice the same people complain about it being OT.

Lou

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:17:01 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>On Wed 16 Jul 2008 07:00:43p, Janet Wilder told us...
>
>> ChattyCathy wrote:
>>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>>>
>>> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
>>
>> Airline seats are small and cramped enough without having to deal with
>> being squeezed further by the superfluous flesh of the person sitting
>> next to you.
>>
>> I have nothing against large people. I just don't like them messing with
>> my own comfort.
>>
>
>My feelings exactly, Janet. And I don't want to have to fight for what I
>paid for.

My feeling also. I'm 6'3" and float between 190 and 200#. I need,
want, and paid for a whole seat.

Lou

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:23:46 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>> I'm reminded of several years ago when the question was babies. Parents
>> save money by saying their infants and toddlers will ride in their laps.
>> The result is that the people sitting next to them put up with baby
>> noise, baby kicking, and baby spilling over into the next seat. I was
>> appalled. Gee, can I say that my boyfriend and are both thin so we'll
>> save money by sharing a seat, then take half of yours?
>
>I once traveled next to a yong woman with an 8 month-old baby. The kid's
>diaper leaked on the mom and since her leg was touching mine, on me,
>too. Then the kid puked. It got on me. I will never sit next to anyone
>with a lap-baby again.

That's just pitiful. I hope you pitched a major bitch!

Lou

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:10:44 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>> This is an excellent point, and I think, the heart of the matter. We
>> all love to complain about obese people when we think they have a choice
>> as to whether or not they want to be fat. (Clue: They generally
>> don't.)
>
>I agree, I don't believe anyone wants to be fat. But more often than not
>it is in their control and they've decided that becoming or remaining
>fat is preferable to the hard work required to be slimmer.

Well stated.

Lou

Lou Decruss > wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:23:46 -0500, Janet Wilder

> wrote:

>>I once traveled next to a yong woman with an 8 month-old baby. The kid's
>>diaper leaked on the mom and since her leg was touching mine, on me,
>>too. Then the kid puked. It got on me. I will never sit next to anyone
>>with a lap-baby again.

>That's just pitiful. I hope you pitched a major bitch!

In all my years of frequent flying I've only been puked
on by an adjacent passenger once. She was a bulemic-looking
young woman with a severe case of flight anxiety and I actually
felt pretty sorry for her.

Steve

Lou Decruss said...

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:23:46 -0500, Janet Wilder
> > wrote:
>
>>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>
>>> I'm reminded of several years ago when the question was babies.
Parents
>>> save money by saying their infants and toddlers will ride in their
laps.
>>> The result is that the people sitting next to them put up with baby
>>> noise, baby kicking, and baby spilling over into the next seat. I was
>>> appalled. Gee, can I say that my boyfriend and are both thin so we'll
>>> save money by sharing a seat, then take half of yours?
>>
>>I once traveled next to a yong woman with an 8 month-old baby. The kid's
>>diaper leaked on the mom and since her leg was touching mine, on me,
>>too. Then the kid puked. It got on me. I will never sit next to anyone
>>with a lap-baby again.
>
> That's just pitiful. I hope you pitched a major bitch!
>
> Lou


Getting puked on in flight, that's an experience I haven't had.

Don't know how I'd've reacted. "PUT THE KID IN LUGGAGE!!!" or something.

Andy

"Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:48:07 -0600, Gloria P >
> wrote:
>
>>Dimitri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Our wonderful free enterprise system does have certain drawbacks and the
>>> airlines are one area. We all wanted lower and lower and lower fares -
>>> well we got them!
>>>
>>> Traveling used to be fun, luxurious, and you were treated like a valued
>>> customer. Not so any more. Deregulation has created WAL MART AIR and
>>> that is what we are forced to fly. Don't like it? Take your business
>>> to another side of the airport.
>>>
>>
>>
>>The trouble is that much of the American public has turned into
>>obese, uncouth bozos. They fly dirty, smelly, unkempt, half-dressed
>>and don't give a d@mn.
>
> The smelly part is just as bad as the obesity. I sat next to a guy
> who stunk and had halitosis. Miserable flight.
>
> Lou

Been flying in Italy have you?


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

ChattyCathy wrote:

>
>
> Not sure if I agree with you 100% there, Lia. I know a lot of people
> have 'medical issues' that can and do cause weight problems, but IME, many
> people are obese simply because they over-eat and/or eat and drink all
> the 'wrong' foods and beverages (e.g. fries, burgers, soda pop) 7 days a
> week. In some cases, just eating a bit 'healthier' (and maybe doing some
> form of exercise) can help folks lose a significant amount of weight - but
> of course that choice is theirs.

The Big Niece fits in there. I was exposed to her at a family party on the
weekend. that was hosted by another niece. Hostess niece was upset when Big
Niece and her big husband arrived earlier. They had been given a party start
time one hour later than everyone else because hostess niece didn't want them
arriving before everyone else and eating all the food before everyone else
arrived. I am not the only one who uses that strategy. Big niece plunked
herself done in a chair on the deck next to the table where the food was being
served. and as soon as food was on the table she filled up a plate and started
eating. I had a burger and some salad and went and found a chair on the lawn.
But every time I looked up at the deck she was either putting a forkful of food
into her mow or waddling back to her chair with another plateful of food . that
went on for almost three hours, and on a trip up to the cooler for a beer she
told me that she was "ready for another go at the food", which I interpreted as
her saying she was going for seconds. I don't know who she thought she was
fooling. She finally stopped eating just before they left. She had been eating
non stop for close to five hours. Everyone else had a bite to eat or snacked,
she had been eating non stop.

She is not much different from any other really obese people that I know. They
all eat enough for 5. Meanwhile I know lots of people with less severe weight
problems who just can't seem to lose weight. IMO most really obese people are so
fat because they just don't stop eating.

Andy wrote:

> lGetting puked on in flight, that's an experience I haven't had.
>
> Don't know how I'd've reacted. "PUT THE KID IN LUGGAGE!!!" or something.
>

I don't think the airlines will do that :-)

BTW... there was a news video on CNN a week or two ago about a woman and her
kids who got booted off a plane in the US. The mother and most of her family
were two seaters.

Dave Smith wrote:
> Andy wrote:
>
>> lGetting puked on in flight, that's an experience I haven't had.
>>
>> Don't know how I'd've reacted. "PUT THE KID IN LUGGAGE!!!" or something.
>>
>
> I don't think the airlines will do that :-)
>
> BTW... there was a news video on CNN a week or two ago about a woman and her
> kids who got booted off a plane in the US. The mother and most of her family
> were two seaters.
>
>
>
Saw that. What a group they were!

Janet, tactfully refraining from allusions to mobile homes.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Dave Smith wrote:

> BTW... there was a news video on CNN a week or two ago about a woman and her
> kids who got booted off a plane in the US. The mother and most of her family
> were two seaters.

LOL, not to be confused with "two baggers"
Yet they can be both, I guess?

Lou Decruss wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:17:01 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>> On Wed 16 Jul 2008 07:00:43p, Janet Wilder told us...
>>
>>> ChattyCathy wrote:
>>>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>>>>
>>>> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
>>> Airline seats are small and cramped enough without having to deal with
>>> being squeezed further by the superfluous flesh of the person sitting
>>> next to you.
>>>
>>> I have nothing against large people. I just don't like them messing with
>>> my own comfort.
>>>
>> My feelings exactly, Janet. And I don't want to have to fight for what I
>> paid for.
>
> My feeling also. I'm 6'3" and float between 190 and 200#. I need,
> want, and paid for a whole seat.
>
> Lou

You probably have a nice, slim European build, but most American men can
not squeeze their shoulders into a 17" seat. Women can, children can,
but most men can not.

If your shoulders are more than 17" wide, then you break the rules just
as much as the obese do. I am not saying this to offend you or anyone
else, I just want to highlight the fact, that the airline industry
should not be purchasing seats that are 17" wide. These seats are too
narrow for most men.

For those who have not been there, check out seatguru before your next
flight. Choose your airline and your plane and they will tell you the
seat width, pitch, poor seats, bathrooms, etc.

http://www.seatguru.com/

As far as the obese having to pay for two seats, the airlines have kept
this issue hush, hush since January. A Canadian court declared that the
obese are handicapped and the airlines should adopt a
"one-person-one-fare" policy. If a person needs two seats, the airlines
have to offer them a 2nd seat, but they are not allowed to charge them.

Becca

Goomba wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > BTW... there was a news video on CNN a week or two ago about a woman and her
> > kids who got booted off a plane in the US. The mother and most of her family
> > were two seaters.
>
> LOL, not to be confused with "two baggers"
> Yet they can be both, I guess?

Truth be told, they were two seaters and two baggers.

You be the judge:
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=126253&comments=1

Dave Smith wrote:

> Truth be told, they were two seaters and two baggers.
>
> You be the judge:
> http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=126253&comments=1

Yowsa. I was trying to picture who got the sister with the missing teeth
pregnant? She didn't look to be overweight.. just generally unattractive.
Why didn't they have money for McDonalds? WHO the hell travels cross
country with four kids and no money? Gimme a break.....
At least the mother admits that the children were loud and rambunctious.
That says something for her.

sarge137 > wrote:

>I'm a big guy, (6'4"/265lbs) and when I travel alone I always buy two
>coach seats, usually at less than half what a first class ticket would
>cost.

So I'm curious about how to go about purchasing these seats.
Do you book them both in your name, or use a made-up or slightly
different name for the second seat? Does the airline
reservation system ever reject your attempt to do this?

One used to be able to buy a second seat to carry one's
musical instrument (cello, say), but they have clamped down
on this as part of the general security panic.

Steve

Becca wrote:

>
> You probably have a nice, slim European build, but most American men can
> not squeeze their shoulders into a 17" seat. Women can, children can,
> but most men can not.

Part of the reason for that "nice, slim European build" is that they are a
little more fat conscious than most North Americans. They get a lot of exercise.
A lot tof them use public transportation, which usually involves a lot of
walking, and they go out walking a lot. But don't worry, fast food has been
discovered and their average weight is i increasing.

> If your shoulders are more than 17" wide, then you break the rules just
> as much as the obese do. I am not saying this to offend you or anyone
> else, I just want to highlight the fact, that the airline industry
> should not be purchasing seats that are 17" wide. These seats are too
> narrow for most men.

That is my problem. I am not slim, but it is my shoulders that are more likely
to be infringing on my seat mates.

> As far as the obese having to pay for two seats, the airlines have kept
> this issue hush, hush since January. A Canadian court declared that the
> obese are handicapped and the airlines should adopt a
> "one-person-one-fare" policy. If a person needs two seats, the airlines
> have to offer them a 2nd seat, but they are not allowed to charge them.

I am not sure I agree with the disabled label. Disabled is usually a condition
over which they have no control, and most of the people who are so big that they
need two seats are that fat because they eat way too much. Seats should be
large enough that a big man can sit comfortably in them.

I don't want to sound like some of the fatphobic ninnies in the travel groups
who regular go trolling on the large airline passenger routine. Their fat
acceptance levels are way way lower than mine. I am thinking like 400 lb plus.
That's just waaaay too big to be expect public sympathy.

Goomba wrote:

> Yowsa. I was trying to picture who got the sister with the missing teeth
> pregnant? She didn't look to be overweight.. just generally unattractive.
> Why didn't they have money for McDonalds? WHO the hell travels cross
> country with four kids and no money? Gimme a break.....
> At least the mother admits that the children were loud and rambunctious.
> That says something for her.

I guess that you caught the comment about the kids being a "little bit out of
control". IMO, there is no "little bit out of control". They are in control
or out of control.

On Jul 17, 4:53*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> sarge137 > wrote:
> >I'm a big guy, (6'4"/265lbs) and when I travel alone I always buy two
> >coach seats, usually at less than half what a first class ticket would
> >cost. *
>
> So I'm curious about how to go about purchasing these seats. *
> Do you book them both in your name, or use a made-up or slightly
> different name for the second seat? *Does the airline
> reservation system ever reject your attempt to do this?
>
> One used to be able to buy a second seat to carry one's
> musical instrument (cello, say), but they have clamped down
> on this as part of the general security panic.
>
> Steve

Things have changed a bit in the past year or two. Used to be, I
could book my seats on line by using my full name for one seat, and
first initial and last name for the second. For the past three or
four flights though (I'm not a frequent flier - I fly only about 4
times a year), the on line reservation system has rejected that
approach and I've had to call a reservation agent. That means I have
to pay a "booking fee" ($25.00 I think) - just another reason to love
the airlines.

In fact, on my last flight last May, they didn't want to book me a
second seat. The agent said they couldn't sell more than one ticket
per passenger. I told her why I needed the second seat, and I needed
to speak to her supervisor. She came back on the line in a few
seconds and took care it.

I think you're right about the panic part. My old system worked fine
well after 9/11. Some bureaucratic idiot somewhere must have decided
the practice left some kind of a security loophole open.

On Jul 17, 4:53*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> sarge137 > wrote:
> >I'm a big guy, (6'4"/265lbs) and when I travel alone I always buy two
> >coach seats, usually at less than half what a first class ticket would
> >cost. *
>
> So I'm curious about how to go about purchasing these seats. *
> Do you book them both in your name, or use a made-up or slightly
> different name for the second seat? *Does the airline
> reservation system ever reject your attempt to do this?
>
> One used to be able to buy a second seat to carry one's
> musical instrument (cello, say), but they have clamped down
> on this as part of the general security panic.
>
> Steve

Things have changed a bit in the past year or two. Used to be, I
could book my seats on line by using my full name for one seat, and
first initial and last name for the second. For the past three or
four flights though (I'm not a frequent flier - I fly only about 4
times a year), the on line reservation system has rejected that
approach and I've had to call a reservation agent. That means I have
to pay a "booking fee" ($25.00 I think) - just another reason to love
the airlines.

In fact, on my last flight last May, they didn't want to book me a
second seat. The agent said they couldn't sell more than one ticket
per passenger. I told her why I needed the second seat, and I needed
to speak to her supervisor. She came back on the line in a few
seconds and took care it.

I think you're right about the panic part. My old system worked fine
well after 9/11. Some bureaucratic idiot somewhere must have decided
the practice left some kind of a security loophole open.

On Jul 17, 4:53*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> sarge137 > wrote:
> >I'm a big guy, (6'4"/265lbs) and when I travel alone I always buy two
> >coach seats, usually at less than half what a first class ticket would
> >cost. *
>
> So I'm curious about how to go about purchasing these seats. *
> Do you book them both in your name, or use a made-up or slightly
> different name for the second seat? *Does the airline
> reservation system ever reject your attempt to do this?
>
> One used to be able to buy a second seat to carry one's
> musical instrument (cello, say), but they have clamped down
> on this as part of the general security panic.
>
> Steve

Things have changed a bit in the past year or two. Used to be, I
could book my seats on line by using my full name for one seat, and
first initial and last name for the second. For the past three or
four flights though (I'm not a frequent flier - I fly only about 4
times a year), the on line reservation system has rejected that
approach and I've had to call a reservation agent. That means I have
to pay a "booking fee" ($25.00 I think) - just another reason to love
the airlines.

In fact, on my last flight last May, they didn't want to book me a
second seat. The agent said they couldn't sell more than one ticket
per passenger. I told her why I needed the second seat, and I needed
to speak to her supervisor. She came back on the line in a few
seconds and took care it.

I think you're right about the panic part. My old system worked fine
well after 9/11. Some bureaucratic idiot somewhere must have decided
the practice left some kind of a security loophole open.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:07:07 -0500, Becca >
wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:

>> My feeling also. I'm 6'3" and float between 190 and 200#. I need,
>> want, and paid for a whole seat.
>>
>> Lou
>
>You probably have a nice, slim European build, but most American men can
>not squeeze their shoulders into a 17" seat. Women can, children can,
>but most men can not.
>
>If your shoulders are more than 17" wide, then you break the rules just
>as much as the obese do. I am not saying this to offend you or anyone
>else, I just want to highlight the fact, that the airline industry
>should not be purchasing seats that are 17" wide. These seats are too
>narrow for most men.

I'm sure my shoulders are bigger than 17", but I've never had a
problem with normal sized people. That's why I said I NEED my whole
seat. Even someone my size next to me would be no problem. The
problem is leg room. Uggg

>For those who have not been there, check out seatguru before your next
>flight. Choose your airline and your plane and they will tell you the
>seat width, pitch, poor seats, bathrooms, etc.
>
>http://www.seatguru.com/

Cool link. Thanks.

Lou

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:07:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> Their fat
>acceptance levels are way way lower than mine. I am thinking like 400 lb plus.
>That's just waaaay too big to be expect public sympathy.

Around here at 400 lb. the only sympathy you get is welfare and food
stamps. <gurrrrr>

Lou

On Thu 17 Jul 2008 02:07:07p, Becca told us...

> Lou Decruss wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:17:01 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed 16 Jul 2008 07:00:43p, Janet Wilder told us...
>>>
>>>> ChattyCathy wrote:
>>>>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
>>>> Airline seats are small and cramped enough without having to deal
>>>> with being squeezed further by the superfluous flesh of the person
>>>> sitting next to you.
>>>>
>>>> I have nothing against large people. I just don't like them messing
>>>> with my own comfort.
>>>>
>>> My feelings exactly, Janet. And I don't want to have to fight for
>>> what I paid for.
>>
>> My feeling also. I'm 6'3" and float between 190 and 200#. I need,
>> want, and paid for a whole seat.
>>
>> Lou
>
> You probably have a nice, slim European build, but most American men can
> not squeeze their shoulders into a 17" seat. Women can, children can,
> but most men can not.
>
> If your shoulders are more than 17" wide, then you break the rules just
> as much as the obese do. I am not saying this to offend you or anyone
> else, I just want to highlight the fact, that the airline industry
> should not be purchasing seats that are 17" wide. These seats are too
> narrow for most men.
>
> For those who have not been there, check out seatguru before your next
> flight. Choose your airline and your plane and they will tell you the
> seat width, pitch, poor seats, bathrooms, etc.
>
> http://www.seatguru.com/
>
> As far as the obese having to pay for two seats, the airlines have kept
> this issue hush, hush since January. A Canadian court declared that the
> obese are handicapped and the airlines should adopt a
> "one-person-one-fare" policy. If a person needs two seats, the airlines
> have to offer them a 2nd seat, but they are not allowed to charge them.
>
> Becca
>

I honestly don't care whether the airline charges them for a second seat or
not. I just don't want the obese person flowing over into *my* seat. I
paid for it and I'm entitled to it.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 07(VII)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't question authority, it doesn't
know either.
-------------------------------------------

On Thu 17 Jul 2008 05:48:09p, Lou Decruss told us...

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:07:35 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> Their fat
>>acceptance levels are way way lower than mine. I am thinking like 400 lb
>>plus. That's just waaaay too big to be expect public sympathy.
>
> Around here at 400 lb. the only sympathy you get is welfare and food
> stamps. <gurrrrr>
>
> Lou

That is, unfortunately, so often the case. Two stories... Last year when
I injured my back and was unable to walk without a walker for an extended
period, I seriously needed to use an electric cart when shopping in almost
any large store. Could I find one of the store-provided carts available?
Only rarely, because the obese people had taken all that were available.
More often than not, I left the store without shopping because someone who
needed one because they were too fat to walk had taken all that were
available. This was easily observed when I was able to get a cart and saw
the others in use.

A "success" story at my place of work involved a lady who probably topped
out at over 400 pounds. If she hadn't been as knowledgeable and talented
as she was, there were many occasions when she might have been fired
because of weight-related illnesses that lasted for weeks at a time, far
beyond the allocated sick time and accrued vacation. She was finally told
to "take care of the problem" or start looking for another position. She
opted for gastric bypass surgery and went on extended leave for 3 months.
To date she has lost over 250 pounds and works a normal schedule with very
limited periods of absence.

Too many obese individuals are enabled by family, friends, and even
employers (if they're able to work at all), and their co-workers have to
take up the considerable slack.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 07(VII)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Murphy is out there... waiting...
-------------------------------------------

On Thu 17 Jul 2008 02:07:07p, Becca told us...

> If your shoulders are more than 17" wide, then you break the
> rules just as much as the obese do.

Not if you sit diagonally.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:

> One used to be able to buy a second seat to carry one's
> musical instrument (cello, say), but they have clamped down
> on this as part of the general security panic.
>
> Steve

I knew a guy years ago who made miniatures. You know, TINY pieces of
furniture for doll houses? Except his were period accurate, working
items. He was particularly known for his grandfather clocks which he
sold for probably $20,000. or so? He would fly them to the customers and
they always had their own seat. This was many, many years ago though?

Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

>I honestly don't care whether the airline charges them for a second seat or
>not. I just don't want the obese person flowing over into *my* seat. I
>paid for it and I'm entitled to it.

I care, in the sense that sound energy policy requires that
planes be optimally loaded. This means seats cannot be
too large, nor can too many seats be empty, nor can they
just give away a second seat to some customers for free,
otherwise there are too few passengers on the plane and energy
costs balloon. Economics dictates that airliner seats will be
slightly smaller than is comfortable for most people.

Every time someone has started up an "all big seats" airline
it has failed.

It is better to pack the airplanes, and if they are too
packed to be comfortable, bump some passengers to the next,
less crowded flight. In the interest of fairness, they
should bump any passenger, not just large passengers,
on an equal basis, so that all passengers are treated
equally and there is no discrmination. But what they shouldn't
do is automatically keep seats empty, and/or not charge for the
second seat when desired/necessary, or randomly underload airplanes
due to some ill-thought-out equal-rights argument.

Conserving energy is not just a woozy liberal planet-saving
goal, it saves lives in the third world where people are
starving due to the food/energy crisis. If we need a
policy change, a policy that treats large passengers equally
but _without wasting fuel_ is what is needed. Any policy
change that results in burning more fuel is a non-starter.

Steve

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>
>
> Too many obese individuals are enabled by family, friends, and even
> employers (if they're able to work at all), and their co-workers have to
> take up the considerable slack

That was certainly the case in a program I watched a few months ago about
really obese people, like 800 pounds plus. They are so fat they can't get out
of bed. They showed one guy's daily food intake. It was enough for a family
of four for a week. Family members were not only feeding him all that food,
they were cooking it and taking it in to him.

When people like that have a medical emergency it takes a a number of
emergency service workers to get them loaded onto a stretcher and out to the
ambulance. I recall reading of one case where they actually had to remove a
wall to get the guy out of the house.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:34:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>>I honestly don't care whether the airline charges them for a second seat or
>>not. I just don't want the obese person flowing over into *my* seat. I
>>paid for it and I'm entitled to it.
>
>I care, in the sense that sound energy policy requires that
>planes be optimally loaded.

I heard a day or so ago than one airline was trying to get the planes
to fly with less fuel so they used less. The pilots are bitching and
I don't blame them. It's not like running out of gas and coasting to
the side of the road.

Lou