On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:11:58 -0400, Goomba >
wrote:

>Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
>> working husband. But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
>> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
>> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating vehicles
>> and funding child care so they can get to work? What about gardening
>> supplies so they can grow fresh fruits and vegetables in their housing
>> complexes? What about cash subsidies or gift cards from organic
>> groceries that could deliver fresh produce to their homes?
>>
>> Orlando
>
>What about getting a job?
>Factory jobs never seemed very "middle class" to me? But in actuality,
>there is no firm definition of middle class. Apparently if asked, about
>10 percent of the public will say they are lower class, and something
>like 10 percent will say they're upper class, but the rest of us place
>ourselves in the "middle class"
>Hmmmmmmmm.... ?

people consistently misjudge their 'class.' people lower in class
wish to think themselves 'middle' and some upper-middle and upper
figure they must be 'middle' because they don't have as much money as
they want to have. as with most areas, people have trouble seeing
themselves clearly. you rarely hear someone say, 'i am a bigot' or 'i
have no sense of humor,' yet we know they are out there.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jul 25, 9:45*pm, Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
> Hereiam@hotmaildotcom wrote:
> >Bullshit......fat people make decisions to be fat.....thin people make
> >decisions to be thin. *
>
> Your assumption is that weight is solely governed by will. If that were
> the case, most fat people would will themselves into perpetual thinness.
> Honestly, the obese spend inordinate amounts of time and energy dieting,
> working out and worrying about every morsel they eat. In some cases, fat
> people lose more weight when they stop obsessing over food and fad
> diets. More importantly, why this intense hostility against the poor and
> overweight? Judging from your comments, these Ohio women don't deserve
> any help because they're poor, undereducated and fat. Would they deserve
> more sympathy if they were equally poor and undereducated but thin?
>
> Orlando

It's much easier not to do anything for the undeserving poor.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:06:15 -0400, Billy <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom>
wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:39:55 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> wrote:
>
>>If the wealthy are throwing meat away while the poor hunger for it, we
>>need a new constitution.
>
>Bullshit......fat people make decisions to be fat.....thin people make
>decisions to be thin.
>
>..........oh...she is so sweet...but she had a glandular problem.
>
>Yeah...right............silava glands
>

yep. if people wanted to be thin, they'd be thin. the billion-dollar
diet industry is just a figment of our imaginations.

your pal,
blake


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:45:24 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> wrote:

>Hereiam@hotmaildotcom wrote:
>>Bullshit......fat people make decisions to be fat.....thin people make
>>decisions to be thin.
>
>Your assumption is that weight is solely governed by will. If that were
>the case, most fat people would will themselves into perpetual thinness.
>Honestly, the obese spend inordinate amounts of time and energy dieting,
>working out and worrying about every morsel they eat. In some cases, fat
>people lose more weight when they stop obsessing over food and fad
>diets. More importantly, why this intense hostility against the poor and
>overweight? Judging from your comments, these Ohio women don't deserve
>any help because they're poor, undereducated and fat. Would they deserve
>more sympathy if they were equally poor and undereducated but thin?
>
>Orlando

it's the think system! just like 'the music man.'

in every day, in every way, i'm getting thinner and thinner. whoa, be
careful or you'll disappear completely!

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:27:57 -1000, dsi1 > wrote:

>Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> OMG, they're like 400 lbs each. I had to chuckle when they said "Gosh, this
>> is horrible. It's just like the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra." Each one of
>> them is the size of 5 or 6 Biafrans.
>>
>
>I reckon neither one's a lick over 350 lbs. But there's no need to get
>rilled up at either one of those gals since neither of 'em said "that
>it's just like the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra." Personally, I had to
>chuckle about all the good people out there hating them poor folks. :-)

well, if you hate rich and powerful people there might be
consequences.

your pal,
blake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jul 25, 9:35 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
> > Personally, I had to chuckle about all the good people out there hating
> > them poor folks. :-)
>
> Only poor fat people that complain they don't get enough charity to buy
> meat. They can still buy Shredded Wheat if they want to.

Someone once mentioned what they saw in a grocery sto someone on
food stamps stocking up on coke. Means packs of dozen of coke, not 2
liter bottles the cheaper way. I bet they just hold those cans and
sit and watch TV.

Food stamps should be allowed to buy only real food:
For me, it is cheaper to live on meat because I am satisfied and do
not need to eat much. Definitely do not crave those sugary sodas.
But then, not everyone's body is the same. Take this for example:
Growing up, when I was old enough to put food in my plate (without any
supervision, say 14 and above), when I scooped from the bowl to put on
my plate, I'd only pick the leanest looking piece, means no skin
dangling or I would remove the skin and left it on my plate (referring
to chicken; sometimes, my mother left the chicken skin on if the
chicken was young). In recent years, during a conversation, I came
to find out that my fraternal twin - to imply that we were fed exactly
the same way - always looked for that dangling piece of skin.

This tells me that her body craved for that piece. Not that she was
way over weight but she wasn't skinny like me. But then, I was after
sugar. Breakfast in our household usually was some sort of bread w/
some meat or egg. Once in a while my family tried native food made
fresh from some rice. (This happens only during summer break and one
of my brothers would volunteer to go far enough, meaning like 3 blocks
or so in the morning). They usually have coconut and some sugar in
it. This one particular thing I remember was like rice vermicelli
and with shredded coconut and sugar on top. I would dump a lot of
sugar on it, sometimes, it is literally sugar liquid - note I am
talking about when I was like 14 and 15. My twin never did that. I
think I did what I did because I was hypoglycemic. That must have been
the reason that I ate more sugar and sweet stuff than most of my
siblings. But my sweet tooth could be seen as just being a kid too.
Just that I ate sweet stuff more than my siblings.

People have genes that are pre-dispositioned to crave certain things
but people make their body functions worse by lack of knowledge.

I love cake and ice cream but I haven't been buying those anymore.

On Jul 26, 12:14 am, Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
> wrote:
> >Only poor fat people that complain they don't get enough charity to buy
> >meat. They can still buy Shredded Wheat if they want to.
>
> I agree that meat eating is not a necessity. However, most Americans
> don't know how to eat a nutritionally balanced vegetarian diet with
> cheap ingredients because it involves lots of cooking from scratch,
> which is difficult when poor people are trying to maximize their time
> either working or perpetually looking for work.

>It's easy to point
> fingers and blame those people because it absolves the blamers from
> doing anything to help.

Well said.
>
> Orlando

In article >,
Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:

> Judging from your comments, these Ohio women don't deserve
> any help because they're poor, undereducated and fat. Would they deserve
> more sympathy if they were equally poor and undereducated but thin?
>
> Orlando

Deserve more sympathy than the two women in the story? No, but they
*would* get it, I'll wager.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller , blahblahblog is back!
"rec.food.cooking Preserved Fruit Administrator
'Always in a jam. Never in a stew.'" - Evergene

On Jul 26, 10:36Â*am, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > On Jul 26, 8:12�am, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
> >> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>
> > Thinking vegetarian fare is less costly is a myth... anyone who thinks
> > fresh fruits and vegetables cost less than meat hasn't been to the
> > produce section recently.
>
> Check out the canned and frozen aisle.

The canned and frozen produce is just as costly, usually more
costly... frozen and canned greens ain't inexpensive, and canned isn't
very appetizing, nor is it so nutritious when the processing liquid is
dumped down the drain. With canned fruit the economics is even more
pronounced on the side of fresh, and canned fruit is so proccessed
that I don't consider it much more than a confection... and there just
isn't much variety of frozen fruits, and those are even more costly,
and again are little more than a confection. Frozen and canned
produce is always more costly, and substantially so, than in-season
fresh produce. Frozen and canned offer more convenience (sometimes)
is all, but at a dear price. The only reason a can of spinach will
feed a family of four is because just one family member eats it,
maybe. And frozen spinach cooks down to nothing just from heating, a
ten ounce package of frozen spinach is barely one serving... but when
fresh spinach is in the produce section you can buy a lot for
relatively little money, and since fresh shouldn't be hardly cooked at
all, or preferably eaten raw, a little goes a long way. I buy very
little canned produce, I only buy what I feel it's a true convenience,
like beets, creamed corn, and and all kinds of beans (and beans are
not fresh produce), and of course canned tomatoes in in it's various
incarnations. I buy hardly any canned fruit, it's too processed and
too expensive... I buy some canned fruit, pineapple is handy for
baking, and when I feel like splurging on a snack of canned purple
plums or a jar of queen anne cherries... stewed prunes are a whole lot
less expensive and more nutritious, and jams are definitely a
confection, their only food value is sugar... there's is no more
nutritional value in a pound of say strawberry jam than in a pound of
jelly beans.

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:

> Hereiam@hotmaildotcom wrote:
> >Bullshit......fat people make decisions to be fat.....thin people make
> >decisions to be thin.
>
> Your assumption is that weight is solely governed by will. If that were
> the case, most fat people would will themselves into perpetual thinness.
> Honestly, the obese spend inordinate amounts of time and energy dieting,
> working out and worrying about every morsel they eat. In some cases, fat
> people lose more weight when they stop obsessing over food and fad
> diets. More importantly, why this intense hostility against the poor and
> overweight? Judging from your comments, these Ohio women don't deserve
> any help because they're poor, undereducated and fat. Would they deserve
> more sympathy if they were equally poor and undereducated but thin?

Poppycock. It is not just their size. It is their attempts to like their
situation to a famine. Neither of them is starving. they obviously eat lots
of food, though probably the wrong types of food. The daughter complains
that it is harder to find a job now than it used to be..... when she
apparently had trouble keeping a job. The mother has never worked and never
complete high school. She blames it on a car accident that happened when she
was 23, by which she should already have finished high school and could have
been out in the work force. They don't get much sympathy not because of
their fat but because of the attitude and lifestyle that led to their
obesity.


>
>
> Orlando

John Kane wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these two very
> > large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or Biafra.
>
> Where? �I read the NPR article and listened to the clip and didn't
> hear anything like that.
>
> I heard about a woman on disability due to a car accident and her
> daughter who cannot find a job. �The situation is aggravated by
> transportation problems. �If I understood the daughter's point she
> quit a job at McDonalds when the cost of commuting became greater than
> what she was making.

I have friends who live in northern Idaho, both late 50s, their kids
are grown and on their own in other locations. She's worked all her
life but has been totally disabled for the last five years (can't see
well enough to drive and can't walk well enough). He's worked more
than forty years in the same munitions factory. All those years he's
commuted the 120 mile round trip, mostly car pooled, and his ten year
old Subaru is no gas guzzler. They live in a small modest house in
rural Idaho they worked all their lives to pay for, moving closer to
work is not an option. They don't live high on the hog by any
stretch, they've never been on a "vacation", their main forms of
entertainment are TV, coffee with neighbors, and she has a pc, he's
never learned nor is he interested... in his spare moments he fly
fishes the local streams and is a volunteer fireman. They heat by
burning wood they spend a lot of time and effort gathering
themselves. Jobs in northern Idaho don't pay much but they were
always able to manage. But now it is costing him almost as much to
commute as he's paid. He has a number of medical problems that could
easily be turned into full disability but he'd rather work a few more
years (after so many years people at work become family), but with the
price of fuel they are seriously considering his taking the
disability. If the price of fuel keeps rising there will be an awful
lot of otherwise productive people who won't be able to afford a
job.

The US is NOT dependant on oil (never was), there is alternative
technology standing in the wings waiting to be developed, but the self
serving US politicos (all of them) have sat on their ignorant lazy
incompetant butts for more than a hundred years. The next
administration won't do any differently... however there will be
change alright, precipitatated by major acts of terrorism and a
massive revolution.

wrote:
>That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.

It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
housing projects.

Orlando

wrote:
>What about getting a job?

Most of these jobs are not near the housing projects and many
communities have no public transportation to get people to and from
work. I know these will sound like mere excuses to you. But here's an
idea: If employers and charitable agencies have figured out how to
transport undocumented workers to job sites, why can't they offer poor
American citizens the same assistance?

Orlando

wrote:
>I don't think that people are chastising them for not working and for being too
>fat. They are chastising them for their lame excuses. The mother blames it on a
>car accident that left her depressed and disabled. She was 23 at the time of the
>accident, but never finished high school or worked before that time.

Because her husband worked. Are women now wrong for opting to be
housewives when their husbands work?

>Then they claim that it is like Biafra or Ethiopia.

They never said anything of the sort in the NPR story.

>The daughter blames the economy for her not being able to find a job. She said she never had trouble finding jobs
>before.

Is she alone? Are not many sectors of our work force finding it hard to
work in this economy?

>Since she had had a number of jobs it seems that she also has trouble
>keeping a job.

I'm sure that her poverty, lack of education, poor diet, lack of
transportation and depression all add up to a self esteem destroying
brew. Got any alternatives for her besides putdowns?

>Giving these women subsidized housing, welfare and food stamps has done them no
>good. Maybe if the state is expected to care for them they should be doing
>something more useful. Perhaps the women would be better off if they were
>institutionalized, given education and put on a strict diet.

I might go along with that if it were humane. But, people like you
probably wouldn't want to fund it.

Orlando

wrote:
>They don't get much sympathy not because of
>their fat but because of the attitude and lifestyle that led to their
>obesity.

Even people with poor attitudes shouldn't be abandoned to die in a
country that wastes more food than fifty nations could consume. That's
the bottom line here, folks. We have more than enough surplus food to
feed tens of thousands of families like these. We think nothing of
spending billions per month on two questionable wars. But, when anyone
suggests we spend that money on the poor, they're accused of being
enabling bleeding heart liberals. Well, call me what you want, but I
believe our primary responsibility is to our citizenry, especially
people who find it very difficult to care for themselves. What kind of
example do we set for the world if we let our own people languish and
die of malnutrition, drug abuse, obesity, diabetes, heart diseases and a
host of preventable psychological causes?

Orlando

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> wrote:
>> I don't think that people are chastising them for not working and
>> for being too
>> fat. They are chastising them for their lame excuses. The mother
>> blames it on a
>> car accident that left her depressed and disabled. She was 23 at the
>> time of the
>> accident, but never finished high school or worked before that time.
>
> Because her husband worked. Are women now wrong for opting to be
> housewives when their husbands work?

I see no mention she had a husband.

nancy

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:40:40 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> wrote:

>Even people with poor attitudes shouldn't be abandoned to die in a
>country that wastes more food than fifty nations could consume.

Orlando...your tired, bedwetting liberal whining is wearing my last
nerve. Say bubbye now and when I think of "Orlando", all I want to
think of is Disney, quite a bit more entertaining than your drivel.

Sheldon > wrote:

>Thinking vegetarian fare is less costly is a myth... anyone who thinks
>fresh fruits and vegetables cost less than meat hasn't been to the
>produce section recently. It costs less to eat meat, so long as one
>is not thinking rib roast, t-bone, spare ribs, lobster, and wild
>salmon is the only meat. The simple fact is that many common fresh
>fruits and vegetables cost more by two and three times than the more
>healthful (leaner) meat cuts. Consider that the more nutritious fresh
>fruits and vegetables are mostly water, therefore to consume enough to
>feel sated will cost significantly more than consuming a more balanced
>menu of say round steak stretched with starchy vegetables (like
>legumes) and using smaller amounts of the more nutritious but much
>pricier fresh produce (like red bell pepper).

I think Sheldon's right; the cheapest possible factory meat in the
U.S. is very cheap relative to its food value. The problem is, you
don't want to eat it, whether you are carnivore or vegetarian. It's
laden with hormones, antibiotics, purines and pesticides. Give my
share to the NPR interviewees please, but don't send it to the third
world where it will create a bad international image for America.

Steve

Orlando Enrique wrote:
> adavid wrote:
> >They don't get much sympathy not because of
> >their fat but because of the attitude and lifestyle that led to their
> >obesity.
>
> Even people with poor attitudes shouldn't be abandoned to die in a
> country that wastes more food than fifty nations could consume. That's
> the bottom line here, folks. We have more than enough surplus food to
> feed tens of thousands of families like these.

They're eating their share, your share, and my share... don't you see
the size of those obeasties! They're certainly not starving (they can
be given all the healthful food anyone needs but they won't eat that,
instead they'll slug down fast food and beer, steal and smoke crack...
and no one is abandoning them except them.

And everyone is dying, MORON... you need to hurry up!

Nancy Young wrote:

> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
> Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>
> nancy

You ain't the bad guy. However, it's likely that people are going to cut
back on meats anyway when times are tough as an economic solution rather
than by any change in dietary philosophy. I suspect that they'd be
spending their dollars more on cheap carbs rather than veggies. It could
mean that we may see a reduction in meat consumption but not an increase
in health or reduction in the gross weight of the American folks. That's
just my guess.

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:

> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
> to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
> than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
> housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
> markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
> housing projects.
>
> Orlando

Interesting comments, Orlando.

People should be educated about nutrition before they try a vegetarian
diet, at least on children. I am concerned about the rapid growth and
development of their bones and muscles.

Wednesday night, while staying at a hotel, I watched a show called Baby
Borrowers (I think that is the name). Young couples who are
20-something, borrow people's children to find out what it is like to be
a parent. One mother had two boys who were vegetarians, and she told
the borrowers, "Just cook whatever you want, they will not eat the meat,
but they will eat the vegetables and the potatoes." These children
needed to get some protein from beans, peas, whole grains, nuts, seeds,
eggs and dairy products (unless they are vegan).

My youngest son would not eat meat, and I did not worry about him if he
spent the night with a friend, but if he was gone for a few days, I
would be concerned about his nutrition. He is 6' 2", so he grew up okay.

Becca

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> wrote:

wrote:
>>That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>
>It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>housing projects.
>
And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
projects.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
news
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> True. And at least they aren't buying into the suggestion that her
>> daughter have a kid. For what? A few more welfare bucks? You still
>> have to feed the child. If they think they're starving *now* why
>> would anyone suggest they add another mouth to the mix?
>
> I don't understand it, either, but it seems to open up a whole
> new world of benefits for people.
>
> So, if they are complaining they can't afford meat, go
> vegetarian. Lots of people cut down on meat when times are
> tough. I don't think my mother served fried rice so often because
> there was a roast beef sitting in the refrigerator. Not that you want to
> eat fried rice all the time, but there are many vegetable
> dishes they could make.
> Not piling on, there are plenty of people knocking them, just thinking
> they need a change of mindset if they are complaining
> about meat.
>
> nancy

I think it's a sad commentary that people are so quick to judge, and so
quick to hate, but that's just me. I'm not talking about you, at all,
Nancy...I mean the people on that board. It never seems to occur to them
that part of the reason these two women appear the way they do (other than
genetics, which would appear to be a factor) is the statement about them
eating lots of starches because they're cheap.

This is a real issue in this country today, if you ask me. Part of the
reason for this epidemic obesity is that the foods that are readily
available to those with limited means are foods like pasta and potatoes, and
processed gunk. Along with eating more vegetables like you suggested, I'd
wager these two would benefit from buying less potatoes and pasta and
spending that money on whatever chicken or fish was on sale that week.

kimberly

"aem" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 25, 6:22 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> aem wrote:
>
>> > It's far from clear to me that they deserve any of the knocking. This
>> > story was not originated by NPR or any real journalist.
>>
>> I beg your pardon, but the story is on the NPR web site and includes an
>> audio of the interview with the woman on All Things Considered.

>Of course it is, I didn't say otherwise. I said NPR didn't originate
>the story, which they acknowledge. The more pertinent question is why
>pick on people who obviously have such problems coping? It's a cheap
>and somewhat cruel story. -aem

Exactly what I thought. And the comments below the story were not funny in
the least, just cruel and judgemental.

kimberly

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> dejablues wrote:
>
>>
>> >> I just went back and checked the two links again. Yours does not have
>> >> the
>> > comments, which are worth reading. Almost everyone of the reader
>> > comments
>> > ridicules the women. And rightly so. They have a lot of gall to
>> > suggest
>> > that their situation is like the famine in Biafra or Ethiopia when it
>> > is
>> > so painfully obvious that these women are a long, long, long way from
>> > starving.
>>
>> Actually, they could be obese, but malnourished. Eating only cheap carbs
>> will leave their bodies starving for nutrients.
>
> Did you see the picture? Those women must weight 400 pounds each. They may
> be
> malnourished but they sure as hell aren't starving. They have a lot of
> nerve to
> compare their situation to Biafra or Ethiopia.

Perhaps taking a minute to actually read what you are replying to would
prevent you from sounding as ignorant as you do. First of all, the person
you replied to above stated the likely truth that they could be starving FOR
NUTRIENTS, which is not the same as starvation from hunger.

Second, the two women NEVER compared their situation to Biafra or Ethiopia.
The jackass that posted the article and then misformatted his own comments
is the one who said that.

And the only one here with alot of nerve is the one whose righteous
indignation was wrongly placed, not once but twice.

kimberly

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> wrote:
>> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>> Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>
> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
> to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
> than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
> housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
> markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
> housing projects.
>
> Orlando
Can I suggest that we simply don't give welfare handouts to places like
walmart as they do in my state (free land, free development/improvement
cost, free highway interchanges, no taxes for nine years etc) and
small markets would be able to compete.

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>> Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>> to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>> than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>> housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>> markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>> housing projects.
>>
> And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
> groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
> projects.
>
>
>
But also consider one of the big reasons is that walmart gets oodles of
freebies which the government picked from our pockets and no taxes for
nine years which helps them trash the small merchants.

<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
> > wrote:
>
wrote:
>>>That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>>their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>>
>>It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>>to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>>than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>>housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>>markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>>housing projects.
>>
> And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
> groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
> projects.

There's also a reason why many otherwise decent people living in housing
projects would turn to crime.

kimberly

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> dejablues wrote:
>
>> "Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
>> ...
>> > This has to be the saddest story NPR has ever published. It is a
>> > real tear jerker..but NPR NEVER published the picture of this
>> > mother/daughter duo.
>>
>> Um, yes, they did:
>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92592545
>
> Actually, there were pictures in the site linked by the OP.
>
> I just went back and checked the two links again. Yours does not have the
> comments, which are worth reading. Almost everyone of the reader comments
> ridicules the women. And rightly so. They have a lot of gall to suggest
> that their situation is like the famine in Biafra or Ethiopia when it is
> so painfully obvious that these women are a long, long, long way from
> starving.
>

You need help. Since when is it right to ridicule someone for merely stating
they're having a hard time? Once more, for the slow (Dave), THEY NEVER
COMPARED THEIR SITUATION TO ANYONE ELSE, MUCH LESS ETHIOPIA OR BIARFRA. Read
the article on the actual NPR page, which doesn't have the poorly formatted
comments added by the jackass that posted the version you read.

You know NOTHING of these two human beings' lives other than the soundbits
in this article, yet you feel you are right to ridicule them? What a small,
miserable man you must be. Shame on you.

kimberly

Nexis wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message

>> So, if they are complaining they can't afford meat, go
>> vegetarian. Lots of people cut down on meat when times are
>> tough. I don't think my mother served fried rice so often because
>> there was a roast beef sitting in the refrigerator. Not that you
>> want to eat fried rice all the time, but there are many vegetable
>> dishes they could make.
>> Not piling on, there are plenty of people knocking them, just
>> thinking they need a change of mindset if they are complaining
>> about meat.

> I think it's a sad commentary that people are so quick to judge, and
> so quick to hate, but that's just me. I'm not talking about you, at
> all, Nancy...

Thank you, kimberly. (laugh)

> This is a real issue in this country today, if you ask me. Part of the
> reason for this epidemic obesity is that the foods that are readily
> available to those with limited means are foods like pasta and
> potatoes, and processed gunk. Along with eating more vegetables like
> you suggested, I'd wager these two would benefit from buying less
> potatoes and pasta and spending that money on whatever chicken or
> fish was on sale that week.

Yes, what it boils down to is they are given food stamps so that they
don't starve, and they need to use them wisely. As many people do,
food stamps or no.

Why such an outcry that they eat more vegetables if meat is out of
reach, I don't know.

Of course their weight is their business.

nancy

And one more thing, this is probably a good time for
a reminder that food banks need your donations.

Just sayin.

nancy

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>
>> Being totally blind, I can't see any pictures. But, I doubt those women
>> would lose weight healthily by starving. At a certain point, they'd be
>> physically incapable of getting out of bed if they starved for weeks or
>> months. People seem to be suggesting that they eat too much, which seems
>> impossible given their unfortunate circumstances. Why this antipathy
>> towards the poor?
>
> I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these two
> very
> large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or
> Biafra. They
> aren't starving. They are gigantic. The mother has never worked and never
> finished
> high school. She claims to have been left depressed and unable to work
> since she
> was involved in a car accident 17 years ago. Being 40, that means the
> accident
> happened when she was 23, well past the age when she should have finished
> high
> school, and even after leaving school she never worked, even when she
> could have.
> .

Now that is your own ignorance. And you really need to educate yourself on
the difference between malnourished and starvation from hunger. You don't
have ANY idea whatsoever why her mother wan't able to finish high school.
Yet it never occurs to you that something outside of her control may have
been the cause, you simply enjoy being the schoolyard bully and pointing
fingers.
>
>
>> In the piece, Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
>> working husband.
>
> Sorry, but it doe snot describe her husband as a middle class working
> class. It says
> that her mother's husband worked at GM.

Yes, he confused her husband with her father....however, you once again
didn't read very well yourself. It very clearly states they grew up middle
class, and since he was working at GM, he was obviously a middle class
working man.

>
>> But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
>> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
>> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating vehicles
>> and funding child care so they can get to work?
>
> Sure.... we should all give up our hard earned money to pay for day care
> for someone
> who had a kid they can't afford to raise. I know I know... cycle of
> poverty and all
> that, but for crissakes , sometimes people have to take responsibility for
> their
> choices in life. You can't go out and get yourself pregnant and hope to
> live on
> welfare and then expect that someone else would support you and your kid
> while you
> go back to school to get enough education to get a job.

You have NO idea what their circumstances were when they had a kid.
Sometimes life happens. It is not for you to assume that they "went out and
got themself pregnant" while "expecting someone else would support" them. In
fact, the daughter made the decision NOT to get pregnant, even though they
were being told it would improve their situation. At this point, I have to
wonder if you are being elitist or just deliberately obtuse.
>
>
>> What about gardening
>> supplies so they can grow fresh fruits and vegetables in their housing
>> complexes? What about cash subsidies or gift cards from organic
>> groceries that could deliver fresh produce to their homes?
>
> Do those women look like they eat vegetables, or like they would go out
> and work in
> a garden?
> You would have to provide the tools and transportation and probably the
> work.
>

Again, you are making assumptions based on appearance, and not even a twinge
of actual knowledge. I'd bet money that the inability to afford fresh meats
and produce plays a major part in their appearance. And don't assume just
because someone is obese that they are lazy.

kimberly

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>
>> The point is that if we chastise these women for not working and being
>> too fat, the next logical step is to forget about them and leave them to
>> die in misery. Call me a pinko commy, but I'm just not prepared to
>> inherit that karma.
>>
>
> I don't think that people are chastising them for not working and for
> being too
> fat. They are chastising them for their lame excuses. The mother blames
> it on a
> car accident that left her depressed and disabled. She was 23 at the time
> of the
> accident, but never finished high school or worked before that time. Then
> they
> claim that it is like Biafra or Ethiopia. The daughter blames the economy
> for
> her not being able to find a job. She said she never had trouble finding
> jobs
> before. Since she had had a number of jobs it seems that she also has
> trouble
> keeping a job.

Again, your ignorant assumptions. READ, man, READ.

>
> Giving these women subsidized housing, welfare and food stamps has done
> them no
> good. Maybe if the state is expected to care for them they should be doing
> something more useful. Perhaps the women would be better off if they were
> institutionalized, given education and put on a strict diet.
>
> FWIW.... I could not find anything about public transportation in
> Fostoria, but I
> looked it up on Google Maps. It is not big enough to need a public
> transportation
> system. It is only about one square mile. I used to walk further than
> that to
> school and to part time jobs when I was a teen.

The transportation was to go to TOLEDO to find work, since there isn't much
available in Fostoria. You yourself just stated how tiny it was...did you
think they would have an overflow of jobs there? Really?

>
>
> Had they not included the photo the readers would have no idea that these
> women
> are both massively obese. They aren't starving.

Yeah, whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:16:19 -0400, George >
wrote:

>sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>>> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>>> Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>>> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>>> to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>>> than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>>> housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>>> markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>>> housing projects.
>>>
>> And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
>> groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
>> projects.
>>
>>
>>
>But also consider one of the big reasons is that walmart gets oodles of
>freebies which the government picked from our pockets and no taxes for
>nine years which helps them trash the small merchants.

I am *not* a Walmart supporter. The areas bereft of local groceries
that I'm thinking of are in the city and don't have a Walmart within
30 minutes by car, on the freeway, so that excuse is out. If I have
to spell it out for you, I will.... but you don't need to convince me
that Walmart is the Evil Empire.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"Sheldon" wrote

> They're eating their share, your share, and my share... don't you see
> the size of those obeasties! They're certainly not starving (they can
> be given all the healthful food anyone needs but they won't eat that,
> instead they'll slug down fast food and beer, steal and smoke crack...
> and no one is abandoning them except them.

Actually nothing says these people drink, steal or are into drugs.
Obviously though at that size they do overeat.

You can find folks with a different metabolism that are fairly overweight,
but not to that level.

"John Kane" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 25, 9:19 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:

>> I don' t think it is antipathy for the poor as much as it is for these
>> two very
>> large women who compared their situation to the famines in Ethiopia or
>> Biafra.

>Where? I read the NPR article and listened to the clip and didn't
>hear anything like that.

>I heard about a woman on disability due to a car accident and her
>daughter who cannot find a job. The situation is aggravated by
>transportation problems. If I understood the daughter's point she
>quit a job at McDonalds when the cost of commuting became greater than
>what she was making.

>John Kane Kingston ON Canada

That's because Dave is going by the highly edited version posted by some
jackass on a seperate site. Because of his inability to tell the difference
between that site and the NPR site, and between the actual article and the
posters ignorant commentary, he's made himself look like a blithering fool.

They live in a tiny place 40 miles outside of the city (Toledo), and with
the way fuel has doubled in the last couple years, that would make a huge
impact on transportation, a concent Dave is unable to grasp.

The fact is, Dave took one look at these women and felt he knew all there
was to know about them because they are obese. In his eyes, that means they
simply MUST be lazy pigs who pop out kids and expect others to foot the
bill. It doesn't matter that the article disproves those ideas...just that
he believes them, so don't f*ck him up with the truth.

kimberly

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:17:16 -0700, "Nexis" > wrote:

>
><sf> wrote in message ...
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
>> > wrote:
>>
wrote:
>>>>That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>>>their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>>>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>>>
>>>It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>>>to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>>>than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>>>housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>>>markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>>>housing projects.
>>>
>> And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
>> groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
>> projects.
>
>There's also a reason why many otherwise decent people living in housing
>projects would turn to crime.
>

The problem lies with the ones who *do* turn to crime. They ruin it
for everyone.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
. ..
> Goomba wrote:
>> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>> Gloria Nunez describes her middle-class
>>> working husband. But, we all know those factory jobs are growing ever
>>> more scarce. Why don't some of you affluent people who look down upon
>>> the poor actually contribute to their improvement by donating
>>> vehicles and funding child care so they can get to work?
>
> I'm not talking about the two women in the article, but the above
> line made me laugh. You should have seen the screaming when my
> state did just that for welfare recipients so they could work for a
> living.

Yes, the problem lies in that there are some truly lazy, drug-addled, and
mentally unhealthy people who, for whatever reasons, simply don't want to or
cannot work. That is not the same as people who do want to work, but can't
get a job. Something alot of people responding to that article failed to
take note of.
>
>> What about getting a job?
>> Factory jobs never seemed very "middle class" to me?
>
> I think in the auto industry they were. Then they did their best
> to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
>
> nancy

GM workers, and I can tell you this from personal experience, ranged from
middle class to upper middle class. That company is having the problems they
are right now because they have no executive talent to reign in all the
years of excess their employees floated through for so long. I have been
shocked time and again by the needless spending they have not only allowed,
but encouraged. And now, all of the people they promised all of these
benefits and health care and pay raises and bonuses to, the ones who worked
faithfully for decades for this company, they are the ones paying.

kimberly

<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:17:16 -0700, "Nexis" > wrote:
>
>>
>><sf> wrote in message ...
>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:29:48 GMT, Orlando Enrique Fiol
>>> > wrote:
>>>
wrote:
>>>>>That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>>>>their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>>>>Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>>>>
>>>>It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>>>>to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>>>>than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>>>>housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>>>>markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>>>>housing projects.
>>>>
>>> And armed guards to protect them. There's a reason why decent
>>> groceries and other retail businesses are not near public housing
>>> projects.
>>
>>There's also a reason why many otherwise decent people living in housing
>>projects would turn to crime.
>>
>
> The problem lies with the ones who *do* turn to crime. They ruin it
> for everyone.

True...but many wouldn't feel they need to if they had other options.
Obviously there are people who will be criminals no matter what...but there
are plenty of others resorting to stealing because they don't see another
choice.

kimberly
>
>
> --
> I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the
> number of carats in a diamond.
>
> Mae West

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:13:47 -0400, George >
wrote:

>Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> That was my only point, that people who are struggling with
>>> their food budget should consider serving more vegetarian fare.
>>> Somehow I think that made me a bad guy.
>>
>> It's not enough to tell people to eat vegetarian if they don't know how
>> to prepare vegetables and have little access to fresh produce. Rather
>> than put up so many liquor stores and check cashing places in public
>> housing neighborhoods, states should give small supermarkets and farmers
>> markets zoning preferences and discounts for opening up near public
>> housing projects.
>>
>> Orlando

>Can I suggest that we simply don't give welfare handouts to places like
>walmart as they do in my state (free land, free development/improvement
> cost, free highway interchanges, no taxes for nine years etc) and
>small markets would be able to compete.

Orlando has the right idea, except the state doesn't put up liquor
stores and check cashing places. They are the only businesses that
can survive in those areas. I know places where even they can't/won't
do business.

On to Walmart. Walmart isn't the real problem. Voters are. You got
what you voted for. Solution to the problem? Wake up and pay
attention like the people in Jill's mom's area did. They didn't allow
Walmart to play that game. Walmart doesn't operate in a vacuum.
There are public hearings. Get out and participate. Be vocal. Don't
play the victim and you won't be one.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West