<sf> wrote in message ...
>
> Who uses this? Hubby has been a rabid butter fan all of his life, but
> now he's cutting fat out of his diet, so he bought some I Can't
> Believe it's not Butter. It has no trans fat, but it has partially
> hydrogenated soybean oil. I'd done my best to stay away from
> hydrogenated oils of every sort (no Crisco for me). So, now I'm in a
> quandary. Is it ok or not?
>
> I told him we still need to buy butter because I'm not cooking with
> that stuff.
>

I'm sticking with butter. Long term I think there is less risk. Just use a
little less if you want to cut back on the fat.

I don't have any scientific data to back up butter, but IMO, natural is
safer than processed with anything we eat.

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:38:40 -0700, Terry Pulliam Burd
> wrote:

>I don't know where I went wrong. For their entire growing up, my kids
>were fed butter. Not margarine, butter. I cannot abide margarine and
>won't give it house room. The miserable [now adult] brats both prefer
>margarine. Oh, the shame of it! <sniff!> And to make things worse and
>for whatever reason, they *both* prefer Parkay to other margarines
>*or* butter.

They fell for advertising. Butter - Parkay!


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 23:57:23 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
><sf> wrote in message ...
>>
>> Who uses this? Hubby has been a rabid butter fan all of his life, but
>> now he's cutting fat out of his diet, so he bought some I Can't
>> Believe it's not Butter. It has no trans fat, but it has partially
>> hydrogenated soybean oil. I'd done my best to stay away from
>> hydrogenated oils of every sort (no Crisco for me). So, now I'm in a
>> quandary. Is it ok or not?
>>
>> I told him we still need to buy butter because I'm not cooking with
>> that stuff.
>>
>
>I'm sticking with butter. Long term I think there is less risk. Just use a
>little less if you want to cut back on the fat.
>
Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
"fat", so he decided to eliminate it.

>I don't have any scientific data to back up butter, but IMO, natural is
>safer than processed with anything we eat.
>
That's what I think too. Thanks.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

<sf> wrote in message ...
>
> Who uses this? Hubby has been a rabid butter fan all of his life, but
> now he's cutting fat out of his diet, so he bought some I Can't
> Believe it's not Butter. It has no trans fat, but it has partially
> hydrogenated soybean oil. I'd done my best to stay away from
> hydrogenated oils of every sort (no Crisco for me). So, now I'm in a
> quandary. Is it ok or not?
>
> I told him we still need to buy butter because I'm not cooking with
> that stuff.
>
>
> --
> I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the
> number of carats in a diamond.
>
> Mae West

I don't care for it, because I don't like the flavor, and because it's rock
hard in the fridge...but if you leave it out, it's soup.

My mom switched to Smart Balance after my dad had his heart attack, and has
used it ever since. It's good, and it's easy to cook with, and they have
shortening and oil options too. No trans fats, either. My dad's heart
surgeon was the one who told them about it. It has Omega-3 and it raises the
good cholesterol, and lowers the bad.

kimberly

<<Who uses this?>>

I do. I don't cook or bake with it, but I use it on corn on the cob
or baked potatoes. I use the tub of the soft spread. At one time,
Consumer reports had rated it as the best (or most butter-like) of the
margarines.

On Fri 01 Aug 2008 11:49:54a, told us...

>
> Who uses this? Hubby has been a rabid butter fan all of his life, but
> now he's cutting fat out of his diet, so he bought some I Can't
> Believe it's not Butter. It has no trans fat, but it has partially
> hydrogenated soybean oil. I'd done my best to stay away from
> hydrogenated oils of every sort (no Crisco for me). So, now I'm in a
> quandary. Is it ok or not?
>
> I told him we still need to buy butter because I'm not cooking with
> that stuff.
>
>

Canola Harvest, IMHO, is far superior to all other tub margarines. It has
no trans-fats and asolutely no hydrogenated product. It has a creamy
texture, and very pleasant flavor. Two versions are now on the market, one
with only Canola oil and one including flaxseed oil. They both taste the
same. I don't use it for cooking or baking, but do use it on toast and
cooked vegetables.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 08(VIII)/01(I)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Red usually means 'caution'. Or
'beef', if it's a bullion cube.
-------------------------------------------

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>
> I'm sticking with butter. Long term I think there is less risk. Just use
> a little less if you want to cut back on the fat.
>
> I don't have any scientific data to back up butter, but IMO, natural
> is safer than processed with anything we eat.

Can't argue with that logic, Edwin.

kili

> Who uses this? Hubby has been a rabid butter fan all of his life, but
> now he's cutting fat out of his diet, so he bought some I Can't
> Believe it's not Butter. It has no trans fat, but it has partially
> hydrogenated soybean oil. I'd done my best to stay away from
> hydrogenated oils of every sort (no Crisco for me). So, now I'm in a
> quandary. Is it ok or not?
>
> I told him we still need to buy butter because I'm not cooking with
> that stuff.

I don't think he's significantly reducing fat intake by using a faux butter
spread. I haven't specifically looked at the product you're referencing but
I'll bet if you compared the "nutrition information" side by side with
butter there wouldn't be an appreciable difference in fat, calories, etc.
per Tbs.

Jill

sf wrote:
>
> Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
> eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
> "fat", so he decided to eliminate it.


If his health problems are genetic (from what you've said, I believe
they are), will cutting down on fats any further really improve his
health? Has his doctor told him to keep the fats in his diet down to a
certain amount?


I'm no doctor. I only know what I read in the news media so I'm sure
I've got a distorted view, but the way I understand it, making dietary
changes will help some people quite a bit in preventing heart attack.
That may even be most people.


For the others, for the ones who have never eaten a high fat diet, for
the ones who have always exercised, for the ones who have always
maintained a healthy low weight, for the people who do all that and
still have family members who have died young of heart attack, those
people are better off seeing their doctor regularly and taking the right
medicines than further tweaking their diet with butter substitutes.


For the record, I'm saying this because, while the news is good, I'm
still a little freaked by a friend's recent quadruple bypass surgery.
He's someone who has never been overweight and has seemed to eat right.
He'd been on heart medication, gotten stents put in 6 months ago, went
into the hospital for more stents, but gotten tests results showing that
he needed surgery right away. Even while in the hospital, his chest
pains and tests worried the doctors enough that they gave him emergency
surgery. They pushed it forward a few days. They didn't want to wait.


He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving the
day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing but
still freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first place.
The man isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his family
history-- both parents and several aunts and uncles have all died young
of heart disease.


--Lia

"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:09:12 GMT, notbob > fired up
> random neurons and synapses to opine:
>
> <snippidy>
>
>>I've run up against my mom who is a magerine freak. I'm a butter nut, all
>>the way. She buys whatever is on sale, much like myself and butter.
>
> <more snippidy>
>
> I don't know where I went wrong. For their entire growing up, my kids
> were fed butter. Not margarine, butter. I cannot abide margarine and
> won't give it house room. The miserable [now adult] brats both prefer
> margarine. Oh, the shame of it! <sniff!> And to make things worse and
> for whatever reason, they *both* prefer Parkay to other margarines
> *or* butter.
>
> Okay, I am bringing out the limoncello and stickin' a straw in it.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> --

The only reason we had OLEO was due to the rationing of butter in WWII - I
remember a special electric mixer designed to whip the coloring packet into
the white oleo.

:-)


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving
> the day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing
> but still freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first
> place. The man isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his
> family history-- both parents and several aunts and uncles have all
> died young of heart disease.

A good friend of mine would be dead now if he didn't have
his heart attack while in the hospital with pains. Seems he's
one of those people whose body manufactures too much
cholesterol and it almost killed him at 45. This is a fitness
buff.

nancy

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 06:36:54a, Michael "Dog3" told us...

> Janet Wilder >
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Fri 01 Aug 2008 05:28:20p, Janet Wilder told us...
>>>
>>>> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tell him to buy some Benecol or something similar for smearing on
>>>>> toast and stuff. Then use the butter to cook with. He's not going
>>>>> to be happy with it. Cooking with it is next to impossible because
>>>>> of the moisture in it. I use a combination of butter for real
>>>>> cooking and the fake stuff for toast and the like.
>>>> Actually the Smart Balance Lite spread is quite tasty. Much more
>>>> palatable than ICBINB, IMHO
>>>>
>>>
>>> We've tried just about all the so-called "good" margarines available,
>>> and have found we like the taste of Canola Harvest the best. It has
>>> no trans- fats and has no hydrogenated product in it. I don't cook
>>> with it, as such, be we do use it on toast and on cooked vegetables.
>>> We like the flavor much better than Smart Balance and Benecol.
>>>
>>
>> I'll have to try that brand. Benecol is FEH!
>
> I'm used to the Benecol. It is what both my doctor and nutritionist
> suggested. I've never tried the Smart Balance or Canola Harvest. I'll
> pick some up and do a "taste test"
>
> Michael

My impression of Benecol was that it was waxy or pasty and did not melt
easily when spread on toast. I didn't like the taste of either Benecol or
Smart Balance. Canola harvest is advertised as:

0 grams Trans Fat
Non-Hydrogenated
0 grams Carbs
Naturally Cholesterol Free
Source of Vitamin E
Contains 1200mg of Omega-3 per Serving
Contains 6000mg of Monosaturated Fat per Serving

Ingredient List:

Canola Oil, Water, Modified Palm and Palm Kernel Oils, Flaxseed Oil, Salt,
Whey Poweder (Milk), So Lecithin, Vegetable Monoglycerides, Potassium
Sorbate (Preservative), Artificial Flavor, Citric Acid, Vitamin E(di-Alpha-
Tocopherol Acetate), Vitamin A Palmitate, Beta-Carotene, and Vitamin D3

There is also another version that does not contain Flaxseed Oil, but with
almost identical properties.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 06:38:43a, Julia Altshuler told us...

> sf wrote:
>>
>> Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
>> eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
>> "fat", so he decided to eliminate it.
>
>
> If his health problems are genetic (from what you've said, I believe
> they are), will cutting down on fats any further really improve his
> health? Has his doctor told him to keep the fats in his diet down to a
> certain amount?
>
>
> I'm no doctor. I only know what I read in the news media so I'm sure
> I've got a distorted view, but the way I understand it, making dietary
> changes will help some people quite a bit in preventing heart attack.
> That may even be most people.
>
>
> For the others, for the ones who have never eaten a high fat diet, for
> the ones who have always exercised, for the ones who have always
> maintained a healthy low weight, for the people who do all that and
> still have family members who have died young of heart attack, those
> people are better off seeing their doctor regularly and taking the right
> medicines than further tweaking their diet with butter substitutes.
>
>
> For the record, I'm saying this because, while the news is good, I'm
> still a little freaked by a friend's recent quadruple bypass surgery.
> He's someone who has never been overweight and has seemed to eat right.
> He'd been on heart medication, gotten stents put in 6 months ago, went
> into the hospital for more stents, but gotten tests results showing that
> he needed surgery right away. Even while in the hospital, his chest
> pains and tests worried the doctors enough that they gave him emergency
> surgery. They pushed it forward a few days. They didn't want to wait.
>
>
> He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving the
> day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing but
> still freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first place.
> The man isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his family
> history-- both parents and several aunts and uncles have all died young
> of heart disease.
>
>
> --Lia

David's brother had quadruple bypass surgery at age 38. David began having
stents implanted at age 44, on 3 different occasions and a total of 5
stents. He also had quadruple bypass surgery at age 55. His cardiac
surgeon told us that he has unusually narrow arteries which were a
contributing factor. He has done well in the past 5 years since his
surgery. I had two stents implanted almost 2 years ago, and I seem to be
doing find, as well.

David was experiencing chest pains and frequent angina. OTOH, I never had
chest pains, although both of my arms often ached (not pain nor numbness),
especially after I went to bed. My cariologist told me that this symptom
is actually a form of angina, particularly common in those who are
diabetic.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
5.247...
> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 06:38:43a, Julia Altshuler told us...
>
>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>> Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
>>> eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
>>> "fat", so he decided to eliminate it.
>>
>>
>> If his health problems are genetic (from what you've said, I believe
>> they are), will cutting down on fats any further really improve his
>> health? Has his doctor told him to keep the fats in his diet down to a
>> certain amount?
>>
>>
>> I'm no doctor. I only know what I read in the news media so I'm sure
>> I've got a distorted view, but the way I understand it, making dietary
>> changes will help some people quite a bit in preventing heart attack.
>> That may even be most people.
>>
>>
>> For the others, for the ones who have never eaten a high fat diet, for
>> the ones who have always exercised, for the ones who have always
>> maintained a healthy low weight, for the people who do all that and
>> still have family members who have died young of heart attack, those
>> people are better off seeing their doctor regularly and taking the right
>> medicines than further tweaking their diet with butter substitutes.
>>
>>
>> For the record, I'm saying this because, while the news is good, I'm
>> still a little freaked by a friend's recent quadruple bypass surgery.
>> He's someone who has never been overweight and has seemed to eat right.
>> He'd been on heart medication, gotten stents put in 6 months ago, went
>> into the hospital for more stents, but gotten tests results showing that
>> he needed surgery right away. Even while in the hospital, his chest
>> pains and tests worried the doctors enough that they gave him emergency
>> surgery. They pushed it forward a few days. They didn't want to wait.
>>
>>
>> He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving the
>> day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing but
>> still freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first place.
>> The man isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his family
>> history-- both parents and several aunts and uncles have all died young
>> of heart disease.
>>
>>
>> --Lia
>
> David's brother had quadruple bypass surgery at age 38. David began
> having
> stents implanted at age 44, on 3 different occasions and a total of 5
> stents. He also had quadruple bypass surgery at age 55. His cardiac
> surgeon told us that he has unusually narrow arteries which were a
> contributing factor. He has done well in the past 5 years since his
> surgery. I had two stents implanted almost 2 years ago, and I seem to be
> doing find, as well.
>
> David was experiencing chest pains and frequent angina. OTOH, I never had
> chest pains, although both of my arms often ached (not pain nor numbness),
> especially after I went to bed. My cariologist told me that this symptom
> is actually a form of angina, particularly common in those who are
> diabetic.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright


I remember seeing a bit on TV several years ago about cholesterol &
Diabetics. They were trying to eliminate as much cholesterol as possible &
therefore virtually banned all fats & the cholesterol went up. The that
allowed a limited amount of Fried foods, only fried with olive oil and the
cholesterol went down significantly.


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 07:08:46a, Dimitri told us...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> 5.247...
>> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 06:38:43a, Julia Altshuler told us...
>>
>>> sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
>>>> eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
>>>> "fat", so he decided to eliminate it.
>>>
>>>
>>> If his health problems are genetic (from what you've said, I believe
>>> they are), will cutting down on fats any further really improve his
>>> health? Has his doctor told him to keep the fats in his diet down to
>>> a certain amount?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm no doctor. I only know what I read in the news media so I'm sure
>>> I've got a distorted view, but the way I understand it, making dietary
>>> changes will help some people quite a bit in preventing heart attack.
>>> That may even be most people.
>>>
>>>
>>> For the others, for the ones who have never eaten a high fat diet, for
>>> the ones who have always exercised, for the ones who have always
>>> maintained a healthy low weight, for the people who do all that and
>>> still have family members who have died young of heart attack, those
>>> people are better off seeing their doctor regularly and taking the
>>> right medicines than further tweaking their diet with butter
>>> substitutes.
>>>
>>>
>>> For the record, I'm saying this because, while the news is good, I'm
>>> still a little freaked by a friend's recent quadruple bypass surgery.
>>> He's someone who has never been overweight and has seemed to eat
>>> right.
>>> He'd been on heart medication, gotten stents put in 6 months ago,
>>> went
>>> into the hospital for more stents, but gotten tests results showing
>>> that he needed surgery right away. Even while in the hospital, his
>>> chest pains and tests worried the doctors enough that they gave him
>>> emergency surgery. They pushed it forward a few days. They didn't
>>> want to wait.
>>>
>>>
>>> He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving
>>> the day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing
>>> but still freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first
>>> place. The man isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his
>>> family history-- both parents and several aunts and uncles have all
>>> died young of heart disease.
>>>
>>>
>>> --Lia
>>
>> David's brother had quadruple bypass surgery at age 38. David began
>> having stents implanted at age 44, on 3 different occasions and a total
>> of 5 stents. He also had quadruple bypass surgery at age 55. His
>> cardiac surgeon told us that he has unusually narrow arteries which
>> were a contributing factor. He has done well in the past 5 years since
>> his surgery. I had two stents implanted almost 2 years ago, and I seem
>> to be doing find, as well.
>>
>> David was experiencing chest pains and frequent angina. OTOH, I never
>> had chest pains, although both of my arms often ached (not pain nor
>> numbness), especially after I went to bed. My cariologist told me that
>> this symptom is actually a form of angina, particularly common in those
>> who are diabetic.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright
>
>
> I remember seeing a bit on TV several years ago about cholesterol &
> Diabetics. They were trying to eliminate as much cholesterol as
> possible & therefore virtually banned all fats & the cholesterol went
> up. The that allowed a limited amount of Fried foods, only fried with
> olive oil and the cholesterol went down significantly.

Hmm... That's interesting. We only use olive oil and Canola oil in the
family of oils. We use Canola Harvest margarine which is predominantly
Conola oil. I do use butter in baking some cooking.

My total cholesterol is 145. My LDL is 78, both pretty good numbers, and
my Internist is pleased with those figures. OTOH, my cardiologist would
like my total cholesterol at 100 or lower. It probably won't happen. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------

In article >, "Nancy Young" > wrote:
[snip]
>A good friend of mine would be dead now if he didn't have
>his heart attack while in the hospital with pains. Seems he's
>one of those people whose body manufactures too much
>cholesterol and it almost killed him at 45. This is a fitness
>buff.

G'day Nance,

Nearly all my male contemporaries who are now dead, died of a heart
attack at around 40 to 45 years old. The females died of "stomach"
cancer in their late 50s/early 60s. As for those of us who are still
alive (and we are still the majority I am pleased to say :-) we will
probably die of cancer or stroke in the next 10 to 20 years -- but
that's assuming we will still have the privilege of dying "naturally"!

Addendum: I may have mentioned this before, but back in the early
1900s a sample of so-called table margarine won first prize in the
butter section of an agricultural show down in SE Queensland!

Indeed, Oz table margarine was practically indistinguishable from
butter years ago. The only "test" I knew was to slice a cold block:
margarine tended to crack horizontally as you cut down; butter came
off as a smooth slab. ("Cooking margarine" was very different.)

The politically powerful dairy industry back in the Good Old Days
insisted that our "peanut butter" be renamed to remove the "butter"
(hence "peanut paste"). I don't know if they were also the reason
margarine formulation changed dramatically some decades ago, or
whether it was just that margarine manufacturers saw an opportunity in
providing a more spreadable product than butter at the time. Whatever
the reason, modern margarine here in Oz is now a very poor relative of
butter when it comes to putting some grease on bread or whatever!
To put it mildly, it's now inedible YUK! (Well, IMO anyway. :-)
[Also, the old table/cooking margarine distinction has long gone.]

I might add that an industrial chemist I know who works for one of the
major manufacturers once told me that margarine is made from whatever
oil is cheapest at the time. (I suspect most is made from palm oil
here.) Also, economics here in Oz has meant quite a reduction in
pre-manufacture quality control; though I'm not sure whether this is
also reflected in the final product -- maybe they just dump more!

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
5.250...
> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 07:08:46a, Dimitri told us...

<snip>

>>>
>>> David's brother had quadruple bypass surgery at age 38. David began
>>> having stents implanted at age 44, on 3 different occasions and a total
>>> of 5 stents. He also had quadruple bypass surgery at age 55. His
>>> cardiac surgeon told us that he has unusually narrow arteries which
>>> were a contributing factor. He has done well in the past 5 years since
>>> his surgery. I had two stents implanted almost 2 years ago, and I seem
>>> to be doing find, as well.
>>>
>>> David was experiencing chest pains and frequent angina. OTOH, I never
>>> had chest pains, although both of my arms often ached (not pain nor
>>> numbness), especially after I went to bed. My cariologist told me that
>>> this symptom is actually a form of angina, particularly common in those
>>> who are diabetic.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wayne Boatwright
>>
>>
>> I remember seeing a bit on TV several years ago about cholesterol &
>> Diabetics. They were trying to eliminate as much cholesterol as
>> possible & therefore virtually banned all fats & the cholesterol went
>> up. The that allowed a limited amount of Fried foods, only fried with
>> olive oil and the cholesterol went down significantly.
>
> Hmm... That's interesting. We only use olive oil and Canola oil in the
> family of oils. We use Canola Harvest margarine which is predominantly
> Conola oil. I do use butter in baking some cooking.
>
> My total cholesterol is 145. My LDL is 78, both pretty good numbers, and
> my Internist is pleased with those figures. OTOH, my cardiologist would
> like my total cholesterol at 100 or lower. It probably won't happen. :-)
>
> --

Good numbers - tell your cardiologist he's dreaming and ask him what his
numbers are.

BTW it's EVOO.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=64159


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 07:41:18a, Dimitri told us...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> 5.250...
>> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 07:08:46a, Dimitri told us...
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>
>>>> David's brother had quadruple bypass surgery at age 38. David began
>>>> having stents implanted at age 44, on 3 different occasions and a
total
>>>> of 5 stents. He also had quadruple bypass surgery at age 55. His
>>>> cardiac surgeon told us that he has unusually narrow arteries which
>>>> were a contributing factor. He has done well in the past 5 years
since
>>>> his surgery. I had two stents implanted almost 2 years ago, and I
seem
>>>> to be doing find, as well.
>>>>
>>>> David was experiencing chest pains and frequent angina. OTOH, I never
>>>> had chest pains, although both of my arms often ached (not pain nor
>>>> numbness), especially after I went to bed. My cariologist told me
that
>>>> this symptom is actually a form of angina, particularly common in
those
>>>> who are diabetic.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Wayne Boatwright
>>>
>>>
>>> I remember seeing a bit on TV several years ago about cholesterol &
>>> Diabetics. They were trying to eliminate as much cholesterol as
>>> possible & therefore virtually banned all fats & the cholesterol went
>>> up. The that allowed a limited amount of Fried foods, only fried with
>>> olive oil and the cholesterol went down significantly.
>>
>> Hmm... That's interesting. We only use olive oil and Canola oil in the
>> family of oils. We use Canola Harvest margarine which is predominantly
>> Conola oil. I do use butter in baking some cooking.
>>
>> My total cholesterol is 145. My LDL is 78, both pretty good numbers,
and
>> my Internist is pleased with those figures. OTOH, my cardiologist would
>> like my total cholesterol at 100 or lower. It probably won't happen.
:-)
>>
>> --
>
> Good numbers - tell your cardiologist he's dreaming and ask him what his
> numbers are.

LOL! I should ask him!

> BTW it's EVOO.

That's all I buy.

> http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=64159

Interesting article.

I don't remember the brand, but recently saw a margarine in the supermarket
made from olive oil. Haven't tried it yet, or read the other ingredients.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------

Phred wrote:
> In article >, "Nancy
> Young" > wrote: [snip]
>> A good friend of mine would be dead now if he didn't have
>> his heart attack while in the hospital with pains. Seems he's
>> one of those people whose body manufactures too much
>> cholesterol and it almost killed him at 45. This is a fitness
>> buff.

> The politically powerful dairy industry back in the Good Old Days
> insisted that our "peanut butter" be renamed to remove the "butter"
> (hence "peanut paste").

(sigh)

> I don't know if they were also the reason
> margarine formulation changed dramatically some decades ago, or
> whether it was just that margarine manufacturers saw an opportunity in
> providing a more spreadable product than butter at the time. Whatever
> the reason, modern margarine here in Oz is now a very poor relative of
> butter when it comes to putting some grease on bread or whatever!
> To put it mildly, it's now inedible YUK! (Well, IMO anyway. :-)
> [Also, the old table/cooking margarine distinction has long gone.]
>
> I might add that an industrial chemist I know who works for one of the
> major manufacturers once told me that margarine is made from whatever
> oil is cheapest at the time. (I suspect most is made from palm oil
> here.)

Yeah, my poor mother fed my father (and us, of course) margarine
for years thinking it was healthier. Now she beats herself up she
probably killed him.

nancy

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>>
>> Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
>> eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
>> "fat", so he decided to eliminate it.
>
>
> If his health problems are genetic (from what you've said, I believe
> they are), will cutting down on fats any further really improve his
> health? Has his doctor told him to keep the fats in his diet down to a
> certain amount?
>
>
> I'm no doctor. I only know what I read in the news media so I'm sure
> I've got a distorted view, but the way I understand it, making dietary
> changes will help some people quite a bit in preventing heart attack.
> That may even be most people.
>
>
> For the others, for the ones who have never eaten a high fat diet, for
> the ones who have always exercised, for the ones who have always
> maintained a healthy low weight, for the people who do all that and
> still have family members who have died young of heart attack, those
> people are better off seeing their doctor regularly and taking the right
> medicines than further tweaking their diet with butter substitutes.
>
>
> For the record, I'm saying this because, while the news is good, I'm still
> a little freaked by a friend's recent quadruple bypass surgery. He's
> someone who has never been overweight and has seemed to eat right. He'd
> been on heart medication, gotten stents put in 6 months ago, went into the
> hospital for more stents, but gotten tests results showing that he needed
> surgery right away. Even while in the hospital, his chest pains and tests
> worried the doctors enough that they gave him emergency surgery. They
> pushed it forward a few days. They didn't want to wait.
>
>
> He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving the
> day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing but still
> freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first place. The man
> isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his family history-- both
> parents and several aunts and uncles have all died young of heart disease.
>
>
> --Lia


When I was at UCLA a while back the head of cardiology told me the sad fact
is without an angiogram there is simply no way to tell how much blockage is
present. If you look at the case of Tim Russert its a classic example of a
"Widow Maker"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow_maker

No symptoms then by the time you hit the floor you're gone.

I also believe one can do everything to put the odds in your favor from the
French Paradox to the Mediterranean diet but I think heredity plays a much
stronger role than we can imagine.


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Wayne Boatwright said...

> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 06:36:54a, Michael "Dog3" told us...
>
>> Janet Wilder >
>> : in rec.food.cooking
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Fri 01 Aug 2008 05:28:20p, Janet Wilder told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tell him to buy some Benecol or something similar for smearing on
>>>>>> toast and stuff. Then use the butter to cook with. He's not going
>>>>>> to be happy with it. Cooking with it is next to impossible because
>>>>>> of the moisture in it. I use a combination of butter for real
>>>>>> cooking and the fake stuff for toast and the like.
>>>>> Actually the Smart Balance Lite spread is quite tasty. Much more
>>>>> palatable than ICBINB, IMHO
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We've tried just about all the so-called "good" margarines available,
>>>> and have found we like the taste of Canola Harvest the best. It has
>>>> no trans- fats and has no hydrogenated product in it. I don't cook
>>>> with it, as such, be we do use it on toast and on cooked vegetables.
>>>> We like the flavor much better than Smart Balance and Benecol.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'll have to try that brand. Benecol is FEH!
>>
>> I'm used to the Benecol. It is what both my doctor and nutritionist
>> suggested. I've never tried the Smart Balance or Canola Harvest. I'll
>> pick some up and do a "taste test"
>>
>> Michael
>
> My impression of Benecol was that it was waxy or pasty and did not melt
> easily when spread on toast. I didn't like the taste of either Benecol
or
> Smart Balance. Canola harvest is advertised as:


I've had a tub of Benecol Light in the fridge for almost 6 months. It's
just TOO salty! Salt and potassium sorbate (?) being the culprits. I could
never use more than a teaspoon on a large slice of toast!

Now I'm butter-of-any-kind free.

Andy

Felice wrote:
>
> Hot damn! I've had ice cream with heavy cream on top as a dessert in
> Ireland, but I don't recall a crust. Gotta work on this cream on chocolate
> trick, though.


I'm wondering if the full wonderful taste of the chocolate ice cream
would come through if it starts out cold enough to freeze cream. It
seems like it would have to melt in one's mouth, by which time one's
taste buds would be frozen.


I do like the soft/hard cold/hot chocolate/cream idea, but I think I
prefer the traditional way of doing it with a chocolate sauce that
hardens on vanilla ice cream.


--Lia

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 07:51:46a, Nancy Young told us...

> Phred wrote:
>> In article >, "Nancy
>> Young" > wrote: [snip]
>>> A good friend of mine would be dead now if he didn't have
>>> his heart attack while in the hospital with pains. Seems he's
>>> one of those people whose body manufactures too much
>>> cholesterol and it almost killed him at 45. This is a fitness buff.
>
>> The politically powerful dairy industry back in the Good Old Days
>> insisted that our "peanut butter" be renamed to remove the "butter"
>> (hence "peanut paste").
>
> (sigh)
>
>> I don't know if they were also the reason
>> margarine formulation changed dramatically some decades ago, or
>> whether it was just that margarine manufacturers saw an opportunity in
>> providing a more spreadable product than butter at the time. Whatever
>> the reason, modern margarine here in Oz is now a very poor relative of
>> butter when it comes to putting some grease on bread or whatever!
>> To put it mildly, it's now inedible YUK! (Well, IMO anyway. :-)
>> [Also, the old table/cooking margarine distinction has long gone.]
>>
>> I might add that an industrial chemist I know who works for one of the
>> major manufacturers once told me that margarine is made from whatever
>> oil is cheapest at the time. (I suspect most is made from palm oil
>> here.)
>
> Yeah, my poor mother fed my father (and us, of course) margarine
> for years thinking it was healthier. Now she beats herself up she
> probably killed him.
>
> nancy
>

Who knew? It was the sign of that generation. Margarine was constantly
touted as a healthier alternative to butter. My mother always baked with
butter, used lard and butter in her pie crusts, but it was margarine that
was always on the table for toast and used on vegetables and some cooking.

Back in the day, my grandparents kept a few dairy cows and always had their
own milk, buttermilk, cream, and butter. At some point, after oleo was
introduced, my grandmother bought some out of curiosity (my grandfather had
previously said he would never eat it), and once mixed with the coloring
and molded as she would have molded butter, put it on the table without
saying a word. My grandfather ate it and proclaimed it the best "butter"
he had ever eaten. When they told him it ws oleo, he said it didn't
matter, and that he wouldn't eat anything but oleo after that. AFAIK, he
never did eat real butter again. Goes to show you, there's no accounting
for taste. What a hoot!

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
> ...
>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>> Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
>>> eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
>>> "fat", so he decided to eliminate it.
>>
>>
>> If his health problems are genetic (from what you've said, I believe
>> they are), will cutting down on fats any further really improve his
>> health? Has his doctor told him to keep the fats in his diet down to a
>> certain amount?
>>
>>
>> I'm no doctor. I only know what I read in the news media so I'm sure
>> I've got a distorted view, but the way I understand it, making dietary
>> changes will help some people quite a bit in preventing heart attack.
>> That may even be most people.
>>
>>
>> For the others, for the ones who have never eaten a high fat diet, for
>> the ones who have always exercised, for the ones who have always
>> maintained a healthy low weight, for the people who do all that and
>> still have family members who have died young of heart attack, those
>> people are better off seeing their doctor regularly and taking the right
>> medicines than further tweaking their diet with butter substitutes.
>>
>>
>> For the record, I'm saying this because, while the news is good, I'm
>> still a little freaked by a friend's recent quadruple bypass surgery.
>> He's someone who has never been overweight and has seemed to eat right.
>> He'd been on heart medication, gotten stents put in 6 months ago, went
>> into the hospital for more stents, but gotten tests results showing that
>> he needed surgery right away. Even while in the hospital, his chest
>> pains and tests worried the doctors enough that they gave him emergency
>> surgery. They pushed it forward a few days. They didn't want to wait.
>>
>>
>> He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving the
>> day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing but still
>> freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first place. The man
>> isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his family history-- both
>> parents and several aunts and uncles have all died young of heart
>> disease.
>>
>>
>> --Lia
>
>
> When I was at UCLA a while back the head of cardiology told me the sad
> fact is without an angiogram there is simply no way to tell how much
> blockage is present. If you look at the case of Tim Russert its a classic
> example of a "Widow Maker"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow_maker
>
> No symptoms then by the time you hit the floor you're gone.
>
> I also believe one can do everything to put the odds in your favor from
> the French Paradox to the Mediterranean diet but I think heredity plays a
> much stronger role than we can imagine.
>
>

We don't get out of this craphouse alive anyway.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> I'm sticking with butter. Long term I think there is less risk. Just use a
> little less if you want to cut back on the fat.
>
> I don't have any scientific data to back up butter, but IMO, natural is
> safer than processed with anything we eat.

It is butter for me. I had tests ran a couple of weeks ago, and I am in
great shape (for the shape I've got! haha). If I have any health
issues, then I may have to change.

Becca

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 07:56:50a, Dimitri told us...

>
> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
> ...
>> sf wrote:
>>>
>>> Unless he's eating entire sticks behind my back.... I don't think he
>>> eats very much. It's one of those things he can point at and say
>>> "fat", so he decided to eliminate it.
>>
>>
>> If his health problems are genetic (from what you've said, I believe
>> they are), will cutting down on fats any further really improve his
>> health? Has his doctor told him to keep the fats in his diet down to a
>> certain amount?
>>
>>
>> I'm no doctor. I only know what I read in the news media so I'm sure
>> I've got a distorted view, but the way I understand it, making dietary
>> changes will help some people quite a bit in preventing heart attack.
>> That may even be most people.
>>
>>
>> For the others, for the ones who have never eaten a high fat diet, for
>> the ones who have always exercised, for the ones who have always
>> maintained a healthy low weight, for the people who do all that and
>> still have family members who have died young of heart attack, those
>> people are better off seeing their doctor regularly and taking the
>> right medicines than further tweaking their diet with butter
>> substitutes.
>>
>>
>> For the record, I'm saying this because, while the news is good, I'm
>> still a little freaked by a friend's recent quadruple bypass surgery.
>> He's someone who has never been overweight and has seemed to eat right.
>> He'd been on heart medication, gotten stents put in 6 months ago, went
>> into the hospital for more stents, but gotten tests results showing
>> that he needed surgery right away. Even while in the hospital, his
>> chest pains and tests worried the doctors enough that they gave him
>> emergency surgery. They pushed it forward a few days. They didn't
>> want to wait.
>>
>>
>> He's fine. He's at home and recovering and telecommuting and saving
>> the day at work (computer programming). I'm relieved and rejoicing but
>> still freaked that he was ever in this situation in the first place.
>> The man isn't yet 60 years old! Then I learned about his family
>> history-- both parents and several aunts and uncles have all died young
>> of heart disease.
>>
>>
>> --Lia
>
>
> When I was at UCLA a while back the head of cardiology told me the sad
> fact is without an angiogram there is simply no way to tell how much
> blockage is present. If you look at the case of Tim Russert its a
> classic example of a "Widow Maker"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow_maker
>
> No symptoms then by the time you hit the floor you're gone.
>
> I also believe one can do everything to put the odds in your favor from
> the French Paradox to the Mediterranean diet but I think heredity plays
> a much stronger role than we can imagine.

I totally agree. My dad, at age 75, was diagnosed with extreme blockage
when they performed an angiogram, but this was before extensive angioplasty
or stent implantation existed. They also considered him a poor risk for
arterial bypass, and chose to treat him only with medication. He was in a
slow downward spiral for the next 6 years until he died from congestive
heart failure at age 81. All of his siblings died from coronary disease,
as did his father, from whom they apprently inherited their predisposition.
His mother lived to the age of 101 and had no history of coronary disease.
I can't remember what she died from, but I contribute her death simply to
old age.

My friend's mother, for whom I baked two 90th birthday cakes last week,
seems to be in near perfect health. Her vitals and blood chemistry are all
good, and she has only slightly elevated blood pressure for which she takes
a mild medication. She has had cataract surgery, but no other health
issues. She smokes like a fiend and eats anything and everything put in
front of her. She drinks a glass of red wine every night with dinner, and
drinks a double martini if she goes out to dinner. She's a tiny woman,
weighing in at a bit under 100 pounds. She is one of 10 children, 8 of
whom are still living.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 08:16:42a, Julia Altshuler told us...

> Felice wrote:
>>
>> Hot damn! I've had ice cream with heavy cream on top as a dessert in
>> Ireland, but I don't recall a crust. Gotta work on this cream on
>> chocolate trick, though.
>
>
> I'm wondering if the full wonderful taste of the chocolate ice cream
> would come through if it starts out cold enough to freeze cream. It
> seems like it would have to melt in one's mouth, by which time one's
> taste buds would be frozen.

I would probably never find out. I don't enjoy any flavor of ice cream
unless it's frozen as hard as a brick. I want it to be something I have to
chew, not melt in my mouth. :-) In fact, when ice cream reaches a
scoopable (is that a word) temperature, I scoop a dish of ice cream for
myself, then return the bowl to the freezer until it hardens again. Weird,
huh?

> I do like the soft/hard cold/hot chocolate/cream idea, but I think I
> prefer the traditional way of doing it with a chocolate sauce that
> hardens on vanilla ice cream.

Does the "true" flavor of good vanilla ice cream come through if it's
frozen really solid? I doubt it. In either case, coating an ice cream
with something that hardens on contact is a tradeoff...flavor vs. texture.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------

Andy wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright said...
>
>> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 06:36:54a, Michael "Dog3" told us...
>>
>>> Janet Wilder >
>>> : in rec.food.cooking
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Fri 01 Aug 2008 05:28:20p, Janet Wilder told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tell him to buy some Benecol or something similar for smearing on
>>>>>>> toast and stuff. Then use the butter to cook with. He's not going
>>>>>>> to be happy with it. Cooking with it is next to impossible because
>>>>>>> of the moisture in it. I use a combination of butter for real
>>>>>>> cooking and the fake stuff for toast and the like.
>>>>>> Actually the Smart Balance Lite spread is quite tasty. Much more
>>>>>> palatable than ICBINB, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>> We've tried just about all the so-called "good" margarines available,
>>>>> and have found we like the taste of Canola Harvest the best. It has
>>>>> no trans- fats and has no hydrogenated product in it. I don't cook
>>>>> with it, as such, be we do use it on toast and on cooked vegetables.
>>>>> We like the flavor much better than Smart Balance and Benecol.
>>>>>
>>>> I'll have to try that brand. Benecol is FEH!
>>> I'm used to the Benecol. It is what both my doctor and nutritionist
>>> suggested. I've never tried the Smart Balance or Canola Harvest. I'll
>>> pick some up and do a "taste test"
>>>
>>> Michael
>> My impression of Benecol was that it was waxy or pasty and did not melt
>> easily when spread on toast. I didn't like the taste of either Benecol
> or
>> Smart Balance. Canola harvest is advertised as:
>
>
> I've had a tub of Benecol Light in the fridge for almost 6 months. It's
> just TOO salty! Salt and potassium sorbate (?) being the culprits. I could
> never use more than a teaspoon on a large slice of toast!

The Smart Balance Light we get is not at all salty. I wish I had a
container of it, but we used it up and started a container of ICBINB
that we got on one of our market's "meal deals" where you buy one thing
and get lots of free stuff. I will have to buy more Smart Balance next
week. The ICBINB is awful compared to the Smart Balance light.

This is the one we use, except we get on ebig tub instead of two little
ones:

http://www.smartbalance.com/Butter37.aspx

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 11:44:58 -0400, cybercat wrote:

> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> When I was at UCLA a while back the head of cardiology told me the sad
>> fact is without an angiogram there is simply no way to tell how much
>> blockage is present. If you look at the case of Tim Russert its a classic
>> example of a "Widow Maker"
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow_maker
>>
>> No symptoms then by the time you hit the floor you're gone.
>>
>> I also believe one can do everything to put the odds in your favor from
>> the French Paradox to the Mediterranean diet but I think heredity plays a
>> much stronger role than we can imagine.
>>
>>
>
> We don't get out of this craphouse alive anyway.
>

damn good thing, too. would you want to hang around the craphouse forver?

yourpal,
blake

Janet Wilder said...

> Andy wrote:
>> Wayne Boatwright said...
>>
>>> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 06:36:54a, Michael "Dog3" told us...
>>>
>>>> Janet Wilder >
>>>> : in rec.food.cooking
>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri 01 Aug 2008 05:28:20p, Janet Wilder told us...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tell him to buy some Benecol or something similar for smearing on
>>>>>>>> toast and stuff. Then use the butter to cook with. He's not
>>>>>>>> going to be happy with it. Cooking with it is next to impossible
>>>>>>>> because of the moisture in it. I use a combination of butter for
>>>>>>>> real cooking and the fake stuff for toast and the like.
>>>>>>> Actually the Smart Balance Lite spread is quite tasty. Much more
>>>>>>> palatable than ICBINB, IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've tried just about all the so-called "good" margarines
>>>>>> available, and have found we like the taste of Canola Harvest the
>>>>>> best. It has no trans- fats and has no hydrogenated product in it.
>>>>>> I don't cook with it, as such, be we do use it on toast and on
>>>>>> cooked vegetables. We like the flavor much better than Smart
>>>>>> Balance and Benecol.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'll have to try that brand. Benecol is FEH!
>>>> I'm used to the Benecol. It is what both my doctor and nutritionist
>>>> suggested. I've never tried the Smart Balance or Canola Harvest.
>>>> I'll pick some up and do a "taste test"
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>> My impression of Benecol was that it was waxy or pasty and did not
>>> melt easily when spread on toast. I didn't like the taste of either
>>> Benecol
>> or
>>> Smart Balance. Canola harvest is advertised as:
>>
>>
>> I've had a tub of Benecol Light in the fridge for almost 6 months. It's
>> just TOO salty! Salt and potassium sorbate (?) being the culprits. I
>> could never use more than a teaspoon on a large slice of toast!
>
> The Smart Balance Light we get is not at all salty. I wish I had a
> container of it, but we used it up and started a container of ICBINB
> that we got on one of our market's "meal deals" where you buy one thing
> and get lots of free stuff. I will have to buy more Smart Balance next
> week. The ICBINB is awful compared to the Smart Balance light.
>
> This is the one we use, except we get on ebig tub instead of two little
> ones:
>
> http://www.smartbalance.com/Butter37.aspx


Janet,

The Smart Balance Light reads very similar to Benecol Light. Wish I could
get some little restaurant packets (the ones in a dish with marmalades) to
taste test. The Canola Harvest would be worth a try too.

I don't use butter in cooking (I can't eat my favorite dishes that used it,
anyway) and the fake butters are almost not worth the money. I've been
happy with garlic hummus dip, smeared avocado, pesto, salsas and other
different flavored stuff.

Breaking ALL the rules, I wouldn't mind a Maryland crabcake with tartar
sauce appetizer, Maine lobster and artichokes with clarified butter for
dinner with a bottle of Dom Perignon, finished with creme brulee.

....I'll try the Smart Balance!



Best,

Andy

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:57:44 -0400, Julia Altshuler wrote:

> merryb wrote:
>>
>> I believe it has it's place, but never in baking! You just can't get
>> consistently good stuff with margarine. BTW, after reading about your
>> croissant quest, I was wondering if you've tried making puff dough?
>> Same method, but no yeast, and extremely versatile. That's another fun
>> project most people don't attempt.
>
>
> Nope. No puff dough yet. I do, however, have a small cookbook on how
> to use it and fill it, and I do have a package in the freezer. We're
> having so much fun with the croissants that puff dough is sure to follow.
>
>
> --Lia

whaddya, out to conquer the world?

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:01:13 -0400, Julia Altshuler wrote:

>
> (I'll probably get rotten food thrown at me for admiting this, but I'm
> one of those people who eats whatever she wants, gets full, and stops
> eating. It happens naturally, and I don't gain weight. I do have to
> convince myself to exercise and to take the trouble to prepare and eat
> vegetables, but after I do that, it's really no trouble.)
>
>
> --Lia

i'm like that i think. but i get done eating pretty soon. not so much
that i feel full really, but i just don't want anymore.

(that's not really clear is it? what i mean is, i never say, 'omg, i'm
stuffed' or 'jesus, i ate too much.' or like my girlfriend is always
saying, 'i'll never eat again,' although she always has. waitresses always
seem fearful i will throw the uneaten portion in their face or something.)

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:47:29 -0500, Sky wrote:

> amandaF wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 1, 11:49 am, sf wrote:
>>> Who uses this? Hubby has been a rabid butter fan all of his life, but
>>> now he's cutting fat out of his diet, so he bought some I Can't
>>> Believe it's not Butter. It has no trans fat, but it has partially
>>> hydrogenated soybean oil. I'd done my best to stay away from
>>> hydrogenated oils of every sort (no Crisco for me). So, now I'm in a
>>> quandary. Is it ok or not?
>>>
>>> I told him we still need to buy butter because I'm not cooking with
>>> that stuff.
>>
>> I think your hubby is in denial that he needs to reduce is butter in
>> take and switching to something else to tell himself that he is not
>> using too much butter. well, he should know that Margarine is as bad
>> for the heart as butter + plus other harm that butter doesn't have
>> since butter is from only real food source.
>>>
>
> Yeah, butter is more "natural" than magerine can ever claim to be. IOW,
> the 'natural' part is more easily processed by the body than any
> margerine or fake butter ever can be. At least, that's my take on this
> issue of butter substitution.
>
> Sky, who never buys margerine

i wouldn't disagree with using butter, but just because a food is 'real' or
'natural' doesn't mean it's harmless.

your pal,
blake

On 2008-08-02, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> Canola Harvest, IMHO, is far superior to all other tub margarines.

I agree, Wayne. Are you still able to get it? All the local markets here
have stopped carrying it. I wasn't sure if it was off the market or if
locals just dropped it.

nb

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:47:29 -0500, Sky wrote:

<Snip>


>> Yeah, butter is more "natural" than magerine can ever claim to be. IOW,
>> the 'natural' part is more easily processed by the body than any
>> margerine or fake butter ever can be. At least, that's my take on this
>> issue of butter substitution.
>>
>> Sky, who never buys margerine
>
> i wouldn't disagree with using butter, but just because a food is 'real'
> or
> 'natural' doesn't mean it's harmless.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I find very hard to think of an instance where the manufactured product is
superior to the "original" item.

Cases in point tofutti. imitation hot dogs (TSP). High fructose corn syrup,
etc etc.
--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Andy wrote:

> ...I'll try the Smart Balance!

Let me know how you like it, Andy. I've found it's the best tasting of
its ilk, but taste is such a personal thing....

BTW, I do use unsalted butter in cooking, though sparingly. I keep the
quarters in the freezer and only defrost the one in use. We keep a stick
of butter for a month or longer around here.

I have a cholesterol problem that has nothing to do with what I eat. I
take Zetia but I don't want to take those statins. From my POV, there
more medical techniques to fix hearts than there are to fix livers. YMMV


--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:47:29 -0500, Sky wrote:
>
>> amandaF wrote:
>>>
>>> On Aug 1, 11:49 am, sf wrote:
>>>> Who uses this? Hubby has been a rabid butter fan all of his life, but
>>>> now he's cutting fat out of his diet, so he bought some I Can't
>>>> Believe it's not Butter. It has no trans fat, but it has partially
>>>> hydrogenated soybean oil. I'd done my best to stay away from
>>>> hydrogenated oils of every sort (no Crisco for me). So, now I'm in a
>>>> quandary. Is it ok or not?
>>>>
>>>> I told him we still need to buy butter because I'm not cooking with
>>>> that stuff.
>>>
>>> I think your hubby is in denial that he needs to reduce is butter in
>>> take and switching to something else to tell himself that he is not
>>> using too much butter. well, he should know that Margarine is as bad
>>> for the heart as butter + plus other harm that butter doesn't have
>>> since butter is from only real food source.
>>>>
>>
>> Yeah, butter is more "natural" than magerine can ever claim to be. IOW,
>> the 'natural' part is more easily processed by the body than any
>> margerine or fake butter ever can be. At least, that's my take on this
>> issue of butter substitution.
>>
>> Sky, who never buys margerine
>
> i wouldn't disagree with using butter, but just because a food is 'real'
> or
> 'natural' doesn't mean it's harmless.
>

True. Arsenic is natural. Ricin is natural.

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:01:13 -0400, Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>>
>> (I'll probably get rotten food thrown at me for admiting this, but I'm
>> one of those people who eats whatever she wants, gets full, and stops
>> eating. It happens naturally, and I don't gain weight. I do have to
>> convince myself to exercise and to take the trouble to prepare and eat
>> vegetables, but after I do that, it's really no trouble.)
>>
>>
>> --Lia
>
> i'm like that i think. but i get done eating pretty soon. not so much
> that i feel full really, but i just don't want anymore.
>
> (that's not really clear is it? what i mean is, i never say, 'omg, i'm
> stuffed' or 'jesus, i ate too much.' or like my girlfriend is always
> saying, 'i'll never eat again,' although she always has. waitresses
> always
> seem fearful i will throw the uneaten portion in their face or something.)
>

YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND?

8 o

Dimitri wrote:
>
> I find very hard to think of an instance where the manufactured product
> is superior to the "original" item.
>
> Cases in point tofutti. imitation hot dogs (TSP). High fructose corn
> syrup, etc etc.


It depends on how far back you're willing to when considering what
manufactured means.
I find sugar to be more useful and better than plain ground sugarcane.
Butter is, in many instances, better than cream.
Chocolate is a manufactured product that I don't care to live without.
Cheese is manufactured from milk.
Flour is manufactured from wheat kernels.


But in general, yes, fake products don't do much for me.


--Lia

On Sat 02 Aug 2008 01:51:08p, notbob told us...

> On 2008-08-02, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>>
>> Canola Harvest, IMHO, is far superior to all other tub margarines.
>
> I agree, Wayne. Are you still able to get it? All the local markets
here
> have stopped carrying it. I wasn't sure if it was off the market or if
> locals just dropped it.
>
> nb
>

In the Phoenix area, two supermarket chains and WalMart carry it. Only
WalMart has both the original and the flaxseed oil versions. There always
seems to be plenty to be had.

--
Wayne Boatwright
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Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
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Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
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