aem > wrote:

> Black bean sauce is easy. I buy the fermented/preserved black beans,
> dry in plastic bag in a cardboard cylinder package. When you want
> black bean sauce you (optionally rinse them), chop them up with some
> garlic and put them in your hot wok. Add soy, wine, water to taste.
> Bottled black bean sauce is all "one note", whereas you can vary
> whichever of the ingredients you like to your taste when you make your
> own.

Black bean sauce is one thing I do make at home. Even the best
quality beans are only about $1.20/lb and that will last me 2 years.

-sw

Steve Pope > wrote:

> I didn't know one could buy fermented/preserved black beans.
> I'll have to look for those. I normally mix black beans (cooked,
> but unfermented) with rice vinegar, chilis, tomato paste and
> sesame oil and leave sit up to a week refrigerated. What
> I haven't tried is getting the stuff to ferment on its own.

I've seen some very defective recipes out there that call for using
regular black beans (as in Cuban black beans), but I didn't think
anybody actually fell for it.

Black beans are fermented soybeans. They are completely different
from mexican/cuban/american black beans. What you have made is not
anything like Chinese black bean sauce.

> I mainly avoid them because of the cost and the uncontrolled
> amount of sodium.

Some of them, like Lee Hum Kee's short bottles of various sauces,
are way too salty to add enough flavor without a ton of salt.
That's a legitimate complaint. Try out some of the Amoy brand
bottled sauces. Or Kun-Chun makes some good ones as well (but not
as much variety).

-sw

On Aug 4, 5:48*pm, "Michael" >
wrote:

> **Have you tried the Japanese tamari? *There's some nice organic ones, in
> fact every one I've seen has been organic, and they're normally wheat free
> too, which is obviously handy for coeliacs. *Not sure about the sodium
> levels though.

Not for several years. I always thought it was too ...something ...
rich? ... for ordinary cooking. I liked to dunk some things in it
because it was very tasty. As I vaguely recall it is sort of the
ancestor of soy sauce. -aem

Sqwertz > wrote:

>Steve Pope > wrote:

>> I didn't know one could buy fermented/preserved black beans.
>> I'll have to look for those. I normally mix black beans (cooked,
>> but unfermented) with rice vinegar, chilis, tomato paste and
>> sesame oil and leave sit up to a week refrigerated. What
>> I haven't tried is getting the stuff to ferment on its own.

>I've seen some very defective recipes out there that call for using
>regular black beans (as in Cuban black beans), but I didn't think
>anybody actually fell for it.

I did not "fall for" a recipe. I make this stuff up myself.
I have never read a recipe for BBQ sauce either.

The above concoction comes out pretty good, and is low salt.
It's not the same as fermeneted, of course.

>Black beans are fermented soybeans.

Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
fermented bean sauce.

Mostly the jarred stuff is too salty for me to want to use.

Steve

Steve Pope > wrote:

> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
> fermented bean sauce.

The first two are the same. Any time you see "black beans" as a
chinese-based ingredient, it means fermented soybeans. Not the
haricot beans.

Fermented broad beans are used especially in bean pastes.
Supposedly they're superior to fermented soybeans - but note that
both the fermented soybeans and broad beans used in bean pastes are
fermented VIA a different bacteria and using a different soybean
than black soy beans. The fermented beans used in bean pastes are
usually yellow or green soybeans, and are produced more like natto.
These bean preps are also used as the starter for many soy sauces.

-sw

On Aug 4, 6:16*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
> fermented bean sauce.
>
> Mostly the jarred stuff is too salty for me to want to use.
>
It does get confusing. The "preserved black beans" product I cited is
whole soybeans, cooked, salted and fermented. In the package they are
dry and salty with a consistency much like raisins. If you want to
reduce salt you can rinse them in running water before chopping them
for the green beans recipe I gave.

There are also yellow bean paste and brown (or broad) bean pastes.
These are fermented concoctions of great flavor (also both quite
salty) but quite different from black bean flavor. I don't think it's
practical to try to make your own version. We used to have a poster
in rfc named Trillium, quite knowledgeable about Chinese food, who was
adamant about the superiority of using yellow bean paste in Ma Po
Tofu. -aem

Steve Pope wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>>Steve Pope > wrote:
>
>>> I didn't know one could buy fermented/preserved black beans.
>>> I'll have to look for those. I normally mix black beans (cooked,
>>> but unfermented) with rice vinegar, chilis, tomato paste and
>>> sesame oil and leave sit up to a week refrigerated. What
>>> I haven't tried is getting the stuff to ferment on its own.
>
>>I've seen some very defective recipes out there that call for using
>>regular black beans (as in Cuban black beans), but I didn't think
>>anybody actually fell for it.
>
> I did not "fall for" a recipe. I make this stuff up myself.
> I have never read a recipe for BBQ sauce either.
>
> The above concoction comes out pretty good, and is low salt.
> It's not the same as fermeneted, of course.
>
>>Black beans are fermented soybeans.
>
> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
> fermented bean sauce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douchi

I Google becuase I'd only heard of the other kind -- "The black turtle
bean, a small, black variety of the common bean especially popular in
Latin American cuisine". (Also from Wiki.)


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> Steve Pope > wrote:
>
>> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
>> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
>> fermented bean sauce.
>
> The first two are the same. Any time you see "black beans" as a
> chinese-based ingredient, it means fermented soybeans. Not the
> haricot beans.
>
> Fermented broad beans are used especially in bean pastes.
> Supposedly they're superior to fermented soybeans - but note that
> both the fermented soybeans and broad beans used in bean pastes are
> fermented VIA a different bacteria and using a different soybean
> than black soy beans. The fermented beans used in bean pastes are
> usually yellow or green soybeans, and are produced more like natto.
> These bean preps are also used as the starter for many soy sauces.
>

Jesus, who gives a ****.

Blinky the Shark > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
>> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
>> fermented bean sauce.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douchi

>I Google becuase I'd only heard of the other kind -- "The black turtle
>bean, a small, black variety of the common bean especially popular in
>Latin American cuisine". (Also from Wiki.)

The competing Wikipedia article says mung beans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bean_paste

Of the jarred products I've tried I prefer the broad bean
stuff. Of course, I love broad beans in any form so
I'm biased.

In any case, common (New World) beans of any sort would
seem definitely wrong.

Steve

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat > wrote:
>
>> There was fresh ginger and "real soy sauce" in the marinade,
>
> The ingredients say 'natural ginger flavor'. That's not ginger by a
> longshot. And I'm sure it was a top-quality soy sauce they used in
> there.
>

Um. Steve. Dumbass. Read my original post. *I* made the marinade myself, and
added the bottled House of Tsang stir fry sauce after I broiled the chicken.
*I* peeled and crushed the ginger and garlic, and added the soy sauce,
molasses, and vinegar. I really like you better when you are not having your
period.

cybercat > wrote:

> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Steve Pope > wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
>>> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
>>> fermented bean sauce.
>>
>> The first two are the same. Any time you see "black beans" as a
>> chinese-based ingredient, it means fermented soybeans. Not the
>> haricot beans.
>>
>> Fermented broad beans are used especially in bean pastes.
>> Supposedly they're superior to fermented soybeans - but note that
>> both the fermented soybeans and broad beans used in bean pastes are
>> fermented VIA a different bacteria and using a different soybean
>> than black soy beans. The fermented beans used in bean pastes are
>> usually yellow or green soybeans, and are produced more like natto.
>> These bean preps are also used as the starter for many soy sauces.
>>
>
> Jesus, who gives a ****.

Hey, you go ahead and remain the Ignorant bitch. Anything more and
you'd be out of character.

The rest of us adults are talking. Now hush. Or better yet - go
out and play with little Gregory.

-sw

aem > wrote:

> It does get confusing. The "preserved black beans" product I cited is
> whole soybeans, cooked, salted and fermented. In the package they are
> dry and salty with a consistency much like raisins.

I think the texture is more like little chunks of black hashish.

-sw

Steve Pope wrote:
> aem > wrote:
>
>> On Aug 4, 3:06 pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>>> Does anybody here brew their own soy sauce, or ferment their
>>> own black bean sauce, or concoct their own oyster sauce from
>>> oysters?
>
>> One of my Chinese uncles brewed his own soy sauce once. Took a
>> loooong time, he fussed over it a lot, and he was disappointed with
>> the result. Never tried again.
>
> Interesting.
>
>> Black bean sauce is easy. I buy the fermented/preserved black beans,
>> dry in plastic bag in a cardboard cylinder package. When you want
>> black bean sauce you (optionally rinse them), chop them up with some
>> garlic and put them in your hot wok. Add soy, wine, water to taste.
>
> (Arg, you're using "soy" to refer to soy sauce.)
>
> (Ignore previous comment, just one of my pet peeves.)
>
>> Bottled black bean sauce is all "one note", whereas you can vary
>> whichever of the ingredients you like to your taste when you make your
>> own.
>
> I didn't know one could buy fermented/preserved black beans.
> I'll have to look for those. I normally mix black beans (cooked,
> but unfermented) with rice vinegar, chilis, tomato paste and
> sesame oil and leave sit up to a week refrigerated. What
> I haven't tried is getting the stuff to ferment on its own.
>
>> Apart from the joke in this thread, I don't know anyone who has made
>> their own oyster sauce.
>>
>>> Just curious. It seems to me it's relatively difficult
>>> to avoid bottled ingredients in Chinese food preparation,
>>> relative to many other types of cuisines.
>>>
>> I think that's an accurate observation. I've got a good array of
>> sauces and pastes and curds and oils that it would be quite difficult
>> to make.
>
> Right
>
>> I think the current question is whether a bottled "stir fry
>> sauce" is necessarily good or bad, inferior or superior to making your
>> own up on the spot, because it probably doesn't contain anything you
>> don't have in the cupboard. I don't know of any reason to suppose
>> that the manufactured product is unbalanced in some way that wouldn't
>> taste good. What you can say is that by using a bottled blend you
>> give up control over the quantity and quality of each of the
>> components. How much that matters to any cook seems clearly to be a
>> personal decision. -aem
>
> I mainly avoid them because of the cost and the uncontrolled
> amount of sodium. But an advantage, to me, of buying a stir
> fry sauce instead of using oyster sauce or black bean sauce
> combined with other ingredients is I do not go through
> the oyster or black bean sauces fast enough. I only make
> a few stir-fries per month.
>
> They do last forever in the refrigerator but I only have
> so much room there.
>
> Steve

I think bottled "stir fry sauce" never tastes as bright/good as using
the individual components and always have a weird taste. To me the whole
point of preparing something yourself is to get a good result. If I
wanted industrial taste I could just stop at one of the various big box
restaurants and let them put a scoop of industrial "Asian style" sauce
on something.

The individual components are really inexpensive, easy to use and
produce a great result and even if you threw them away when half used
you would likely spend a lot less than the "stir fry sauce" which I am
sure isn't $0.29/bottle.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat > wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Steve Pope > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
>>>> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
>>>> fermented bean sauce.
>>>
>>> The first two are the same. Any time you see "black beans" as a
>>> chinese-based ingredient, it means fermented soybeans. Not the
>>> haricot beans.
>>>
>>> Fermented broad beans are used especially in bean pastes.
>>> Supposedly they're superior to fermented soybeans - but note that
>>> both the fermented soybeans and broad beans used in bean pastes are
>>> fermented VIA a different bacteria and using a different soybean
>>> than black soy beans. The fermented beans used in bean pastes are
>>> usually yellow or green soybeans, and are produced more like natto.
>>> These bean preps are also used as the starter for many soy sauces.
>>>
>>
>> Jesus, who gives a ****.
>
> Hey, you go ahead and remain the Ignorant bitch. Anything more and
> you'd be out of character.
>
> The rest of us adults are talking. Now hush. Or better yet - go
> out and play with little Gregory.
>

So you tried to get laid and had no luck. That explains it.

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:52:45 -0400, cybercat wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 16:04:35 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>>
>>> "aem" > wrote:
>>>>The marinade sounds good, though I'd have added some rice wine or
>>>>sherry to it. With already seasoned vegetables and chicken with that
>>>>long marinade, why did you need to add bottled sauce?
>>>
>>> Because I like it. I did not add much, as it turned out it was just
>>> enough to get the rice dirty. It wasn't swimming or anything.
>>
>> you go ahead and do it if it tastes good, honey. we deal in results.
>>
>
> *teef*
>
> That's about it. I am absolutely not interested in attempting any kind of
> haute cuisine, being a "proper cook" etc. That kind of precision is one
> reason I will never be a baker. I do like making my own sauces and
> dressings, so that there are not so many weird chemicals in them, but I am
> not going to do that with Asian-style dishes because I don't make them that
> often. I have a beautiful wok I rarely use. Maybe one day, I will be more
> interested in such things, but today there are many things more interesting
> to me than fancy cooking.
>
> Besides, that's what you're for. You cook all kinds of fancy Asian stuff
> from scratch, dontcha?

i'm not sure about 'fancy,' but i do cook a lot of atir-fries and such, and
usually do what sauces i require from scratch. it's not that hard.

i do make my own teriaki sauce though:

teriaki sauce:

1/3 cup soy sauce (kikkoman is good)

2 tbs mirin

2 1/2 tbs cider vinegar

2 tbs brownulated sugar

1 1/2 tbs chopped ginger root

1 tsp chopped garlic (i use the nasty stuff from the jar)

1/2 tsp sesame seeds (optional) (would probably be better toasted, but
i'm too lazy)

* * * *

in a small saucepan, mix ingredients together and bring to a boil. lower
heat and simmer gently for around 10 minutes. strain, put into a bottle
and keep refrigerated. should last approximately forever, unless you like
it, as i do.

the mirin (sweetened rice wine) used to be somewhat hard to find, but i see
it in the grocery now. it keeps well.

this version of teriaki is very good, and a lot cheaper than the bottled
stuff. i use it as a marinade for pork or beef in stir-fries also.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:52:22 -0700 (PDT), aem wrote:

> On Aug 4, 10:43*am, George > wrote:
>>
>> How does Kimlan soy sauce(s) compare to Pearl River Bridge?
>> I have never seen it in the Asian markets I frequent in the
>> NYC/NJ/Philly area.
>
> Kimlan is a very large Taiwanese food products company, claiming the
> biggest soy sauce sales among Taiwan brands. Pearl River Bridge is a
> very large company in Guangdong, which may be the biggest soy sauce
> seller from China. Kikkoman has the equivalent position in Japan.
> They all make "genuine" stuff, naturally fermented, as few additives
> as possible, and they all taste good to a lot of people. You can find
> all three in both the asian markets and the supermarkets here in
> SoCal. Which you like best is up to your taste. Kikkoman has a lower-
> sodium soy sauce that tastes, as far as I can tell, just like the
> regular product. I don't know whether the others offer a lower sodium
> version. I've been stuck on Pearl River Bridge for quite a while now
> but I've used both the others in the past and may again in the
> future. -aem

i saw a lower-sodium kimlan soy sauce at the asian market just the other
day.

i've been using pearl river bridge for a while now, too. i think it has a
slight edge over kikkoman (without getting into the weeds about japanese
vs. chinese styles), but kikkoman has the advantage of wider availability.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 22:06:07 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

> aem > wrote:
>
>>Kimlan is a very large Taiwanese food products company, claiming the
>>biggest soy sauce sales among Taiwan brands. Pearl River Bridge is a
>>very large company in Guangdong, which may be the biggest soy sauce
>>seller from China. Kikkoman has the equivalent position in Japan.
>>They all make "genuine" stuff, naturally fermented, as few additives
>>as possible, and they all taste good to a lot of people. You can find
>>all three in both the asian markets and the supermarkets here in
>>SoCal. Which you like best is up to your taste. Kikkoman has a lower-
>>sodium soy sauce that tastes, as far as I can tell, just like the
>>regular product. I don't know whether the others offer a lower sodium
>>version. I've been stuck on Pearl River Bridge for quite a while now
>>but I've used both the others in the past and may again in the
>>future. -aem
>
> Does anybody here brew their own soy sauce, or ferment their
> own black bean sauce, or concoct their own oyster sauce from
> oysters?
>
> Just curious. It seems to me it's relatively difficult
> to avoid bottled ingredients in Chinese food preparation,
> relative to many other types of cuisines.
>
> Steve

i think when people here are talking about 'bottled' sauces, they're
talking about 'stir-fry sauce' or 'teriaki marinade' and the like, not the
constituent ingredients thereof. i suppose you could make your own
worcestershire, but nobody in their right mind would do so.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:46:09 -0700 (PDT), aem wrote:

> On Aug 4, 3:06*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> Apart from the joke in this thread, I don't know anyone who has made
> their own oyster sauce.
>
>> Just curious. *It seems to me it's relatively difficult
>> to avoid bottled ingredients in Chinese food preparation,
>> relative to many other types of cuisines.
>>
> I think that's an accurate observation. I've got a good array of
> sauces and pastes and curds and oils that it would be quite difficult
> to make. I think the current question is whether a bottled "stir fry
> sauce" is necessarily good or bad, inferior or superior to making your
> own up on the spot, because it probably doesn't contain anything you
> don't have in the cupboard. I don't know of any reason to suppose
> that the manufactured product is unbalanced in some way that wouldn't
> taste good. What you can say is that by using a bottled blend you
> give up control over the quantity and quality of each of the
> components. How much that matters to any cook seems clearly to be a
> personal decision. -aem

i've seen recipes for chili oil (or 'red oil') that didn't seem too
difficult, but i wouldn't **** with it. maybe thirty-forty years ago when
your alternative was mail-order, but not now.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 23:02:49 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

> aem > wrote:
>
>>On Aug 4, 3:06*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>>> Does anybody here brew their own soy sauce, or ferment their
>>> own black bean sauce, or concoct their own oyster sauce from
>>> oysters?
>
>>One of my Chinese uncles brewed his own soy sauce once. Took a
>>loooong time, he fussed over it a lot, and he was disappointed with
>>the result. Never tried again.
>
> Interesting.
>
>>Black bean sauce is easy. I buy the fermented/preserved black beans,
>>dry in plastic bag in a cardboard cylinder package. When you want
>>black bean sauce you (optionally rinse them), chop them up with some
>>garlic and put them in your hot wok. Add soy, wine, water to taste.
>
> (Arg, you're using "soy" to refer to soy sauce.)
>
> (Ignore previous comment, just one of my pet peeves.)
>
>>Bottled black bean sauce is all "one note", whereas you can vary
>>whichever of the ingredients you like to your taste when you make your
>>own.
>
> I didn't know one could buy fermented/preserved black beans.
> I'll have to look for those. I normally mix black beans (cooked,
> but unfermented) with rice vinegar, chilis, tomato paste and
> sesame oil and leave sit up to a week refrigerated. What
> I haven't tried is getting the stuff to ferment on its own.

any reasonable well-stocked asian market should have them. you can see the
salt on them. i taste, i should think, is much different from unfermented.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:21:22 -0700 (PDT), aem wrote:

> On Aug 4, 4:02*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>>
>> I didn't know one could buy fermented/preserved black beans.
>> I'll have to look for those.
>
> Here in the SoCal asian markets the common item is "Yang Jiang
> Preserved Beans" in a yellow cardboard cylindrical box about 5" high.
> They last forever. Having them handy, you get used to using them more
> often than you might a jarred sauce. I had some fresh green beans
> from the farmers market recently and it went like this.
>
> Bring pot of water to boil. While it's heating, trim beans, chop 2 TB
> black beans, 2 TB garlic.
> Parboil 1 lb.green beans 2 minutes. Drain, run under cold water to
> stop cooking.
> Heat wok over high heat until wisps of smoke appear. Put in 1 or 2 TB
> oil, the beans and garlic. Stir a few seconds until quite fragrant
> then add 1/4 lb. ground pork. Stir fry until pink color is all gone
> and pork is broken into small chunks. Add soy sauce and rice wine or
> sherry, about 1 TB each, stir, add the green beans, stir all
> together. When heat has come back up, swirl about 1/4 cup water
> around sides of wok, stir again. Let steam/cook another minute or two
> until beans are done but still crisp, then check amount of liquid. If
> desired, thicken with a little bit of cornstarch slurry.
>
> Very tasty. -aem

it sounds tasty indeed.

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 05:18:28 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> aem > wrote:
>
>> It does get confusing. The "preserved black beans" product I cited is
>> whole soybeans, cooked, salted and fermented. In the package they are
>> dry and salty with a consistency much like raisins.
>
> I think the texture is more like little chunks of black hashish.
>
> -sw

strongly opiated. but raisins might be more familiar, at least of late.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:54:18 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> aem > wrote:
>
>> Black bean sauce is easy. I buy the fermented/preserved black beans,
>> dry in plastic bag in a cardboard cylinder package. When you want
>> black bean sauce you (optionally rinse them), chop them up with some
>> garlic and put them in your hot wok. Add soy, wine, water to taste.
>> Bottled black bean sauce is all "one note", whereas you can vary
>> whichever of the ingredients you like to your taste when you make your
>> own.
>
> Black bean sauce is one thing I do make at home. Even the best
> quality beans are only about $1.20/lb and that will last me 2 years.
>
> -sw

have you posted your recipe here before, steve?

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:52:20 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> Steve Pope > wrote:
>
>> Does anybody here brew their own soy sauce, or ferment their
>> own black bean sauce, or concoct their own oyster sauce from
>> oysters?
>>
>> Just curious. It seems to me it's relatively difficult
>> to avoid bottled ingredients in Chinese food preparation,
>> relative to many other types of cuisines.
>
> All Asian cooks rely on bottles sauces. They are also very
> dedicated to one brand or another.
>
> Most French cooks don't make their own butter or wine, either.
>
> -sw

i hear the most refined palates go for butter churned from human breast
milk.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:36:36 -0400, George wrote:
>
> My current favorite is Pearl River Bridge dark mushroom. I also have a
> jug of Kikkoman for some Japanese dishes that taste better with it.

what do you like to use the mushroom soy in, george?

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:48:19 +1000, Michael wrote:

> "aem" > wrote in message
> ...
> Kimlan is a very large Taiwanese food products company, claiming the
> biggest soy sauce sales among Taiwan brands. Pearl River Bridge is a
> very large company in Guangdong, which may be the biggest soy sauce
> seller from China. Kikkoman has the equivalent position in Japan.
> They all make "genuine" stuff, naturally fermented, as few additives
> as possible, and they all taste good to a lot of people. You can find
> all three in both the asian markets and the supermarkets here in
> SoCal. Which you like best is up to your taste. Kikkoman has a lower-
> sodium soy sauce that tastes, as far as I can tell, just like the
> regular product. I don't know whether the others offer a lower sodium
> version. I've been stuck on Pearl River Bridge for quite a while now
> but I've used both the others in the past and may again in the
> future. -aem
>
> **Have you tried the Japanese tamari? There's some nice organic ones, in
> fact every one I've seen has been organic, and they're normally wheat free
> too, which is obviously handy for coeliacs. Not sure about the sodium
> levels though.

the ones i've seen seem awfully expensive in terms of bang for the buck.

your pal,
blake

George > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> I mainly avoid them because of the cost and the uncontrolled
>> amount of sodium. But an advantage, to me, of buying a stir
>> fry sauce instead of using oyster sauce or black bean sauce
>> combined with other ingredients is I do not go through
>> the oyster or black bean sauces fast enough. I only make
>> a few stir-fries per month.

>> They do last forever in the refrigerator but I only have
>> so much room there.

>I think bottled "stir fry sauce" never tastes as bright/good as using
>the individual components and always have a weird taste. To me the whole
>point of preparing something yourself is to get a good result. If I
>wanted industrial taste I could just stop at one of the various big box
>restaurants and let them put a scoop of industrial "Asian style" sauce
>on something.

>The individual components are really inexpensive, easy to use and
>produce a great result and even if you threw them away when half used
>you would likely spend a lot less than the "stir fry sauce" which I am
>sure isn't $0.29/bottle.

Typically, I don't use a bottled stir fry sauce but neither
do I typically try to create a sauce (say, with cornstarch or
xanthan gum) for my Chinese-type stir-fries. Too much work.
I don't consider a little broad-bean paste added to the
stir-fry to be a "sauce".

If it's a Thai-type stir-fry then the easy solution presents
itself in the form of coconut milk.

Steve

In article >,
says...
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:52:45 -0400, cybercat wrote:
>
> > "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> >> On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 16:04:35 -0400, cybercat wrote:
> >>
> >>> "aem" > wrote:
> >>>>The marinade sounds good, though I'd have added some rice wine or
> >>>>sherry to it. With already seasoned vegetables and chicken with that
> >>>>long marinade, why did you need to add bottled sauce?
> >>>
> >>> Because I like it. I did not add much, as it turned out it was just
> >>> enough to get the rice dirty. It wasn't swimming or anything.
> >>
> >> you go ahead and do it if it tastes good, honey. we deal in results.
> >>
> >
> > *teef*
> >
> > That's about it. I am absolutely not interested in attempting any kind of
> > haute cuisine, being a "proper cook" etc. That kind of precision is one
> > reason I will never be a baker. I do like making my own sauces and
> > dressings, so that there are not so many weird chemicals in them, but I am
> > not going to do that with Asian-style dishes because I don't make them that
> > often. I have a beautiful wok I rarely use. Maybe one day, I will be more
> > interested in such things, but today there are many things more interesting
> > to me than fancy cooking.
> >
> > Besides, that's what you're for. You cook all kinds of fancy Asian stuff
> > from scratch, dontcha?
>
> i'm not sure about 'fancy,' but i do cook a lot of atir-fries and such, and
> usually do what sauces i require from scratch. it's not that hard.
>
> i do make my own teriaki sauce though:
>
> teriaki sauce:
>
> 1/3 cup soy sauce (kikkoman is good)
>
> 2 tbs mirin
>
> 2 1/2 tbs cider vinegar
>
> 2 tbs brownulated sugar
>
> 1 1/2 tbs chopped ginger root
>
> 1 tsp chopped garlic (i use the nasty stuff from the jar)
>
> 1/2 tsp sesame seeds (optional) (would probably be better toasted, but
> i'm too lazy)
>
> * * * *
>
> in a small saucepan, mix ingredients together and bring to a boil. lower
> heat and simmer gently for around 10 minutes. strain, put into a bottle
> and keep refrigerated. should last approximately forever, unless you like
> it, as i do.
>
> the mirin (sweetened rice wine) used to be somewhat hard to find, but i see
> it in the grocery now. it keeps well.
>
> this version of teriaki is very good, and a lot cheaper than the bottled
> stuff. i use it as a marinade for pork or beef in stir-fries also.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>

The trick to Asian cuisine is the preparation. I've found that's the
case on the three dishes I've mastered, Beef and Broccoli, Fried Rice
and General Tso's Chicken.

The GTC doesn't use a thick battering on the chicken, it focuses on the
sauce.

Sqwertz wrote:

> cybercat > wrote:
>
> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Steve Pope > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Interesting, because I have seen black beans, soybeans,
> >>> and broad beans all listed on different jars of Chinese
> >>> fermented bean sauce.
> >>
> >> The first two are the same. Any time you see "black beans" as a
> >> chinese-based ingredient, it means fermented soybeans. Not the
> >> haricot beans.
> >>
> >> Fermented broad beans are used especially in bean pastes.
> >> Supposedly they're superior to fermented soybeans - but note that
> >> both the fermented soybeans and broad beans used in bean pastes are
> >> fermented VIA a different bacteria and using a different soybean
> >> than black soy beans. The fermented beans used in bean pastes are
> >> usually yellow or green soybeans, and are produced more like natto.
> >> These bean preps are also used as the starter for many soy sauces.
> >>
> >
> > Jesus, who gives a ****.
>
> Hey, you go ahead and remain the Ignorant bitch. Anything more and
> you'd be out of character.
>
> The rest of us adults are talking. Now hush. Or better yet - go
> out and play with little Gregory.


Jeez, Steve, that's kinda harsh, donchya think...I mean if I go to play at
cybercat's pad she can't even feed me lunch 'cos she CAN'T cook...

;-D


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

Greg wrote:

> The cyberkitty's "recipe" up there sounds like some crap you'd get at
> Panda Express or something...I rate it a big fat "F".

I'd rate it above Panda Express; it's more along the lines of Sandra Lee's
"Semi Ho-Made."

I'm sure most of us have eaten worse food. We just don't proudly post about
it like cyber****.

Bob

cybercat > wrote:

> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> cybercat > wrote:
>>
>>> There was fresh ginger and "real soy sauce" in the marinade,
>>
>> The ingredients say 'natural ginger flavor'. That's not ginger by a
>> longshot. And I'm sure it was a top-quality soy sauce they used in
>> there.
>>
>
> Um. Steve. Dumbass. Read my original post. *I* made the marinade myself, and
> added the bottled House of Tsang stir fry sauce after I broiled the chicken.
> *I* peeled and crushed the ginger and garlic, and added the soy sauce,
> molasses, and vinegar.

Then why did you need the 'House of Tsang' <cough> instead of oyster
sauce?

You *almost* HAD it.

> I really like you better when you are not having your
> period.

I guess you don't work for Tampax, then.

-sw

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat > wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> cybercat > wrote:
>>>
>>>> There was fresh ginger and "real soy sauce" in the marinade,
>>>
>>> The ingredients say 'natural ginger flavor'. That's not ginger by a
>>> longshot. And I'm sure it was a top-quality soy sauce they used in
>>> there.
>>>
>>
>> Um. Steve. Dumbass. Read my original post. *I* made the marinade myself,
>> and
>> added the bottled House of Tsang stir fry sauce after I broiled the
>> chicken.
>> *I* peeled and crushed the ginger and garlic, and added the soy sauce,
>> molasses, and vinegar.
>
> Then why did you need the 'House of Tsang' <cough> instead of oyster
> sauce?

Because I like it. And it was just a little bit. God damn it.

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
>> **Have you tried the Japanese tamari? There's some nice organic ones, in
>> fact every one I've seen has been organic, and they're normally wheat
>> free
>> too, which is obviously handy for coeliacs. Not sure about the sodium
>> levels though.
>
> the ones i've seen seem awfully expensive in terms of bang for the buck.

Aye, are your ones over there organic too? As soon as that word is added to
a product the price seems to increase...a bit like anything with medical in
the title, no matter how simple it is.

blake murphy wrote:

> i've seen recipes for chili oil (or 'red oil') that didn't seem too
> difficult, but i wouldn't **** with it. maybe thirty-forty years ago
> when your alternative was mail-order, but not now.

Try it and you'll become addicted to it. Here it's called "olio santo"
("holy oil") and it is so easy to do... just choose your favorite dry
chilies and put them into an oil you like, as EV olive oil, and let it rest
for some time, say 3 weeks for example. Then you'll have your orange/red hot
oil to use with anything you want: in a sandwich, on a pasta dish, on
BBQed/grilled meat, pizza...
I'm a great fan of olio santo. If and when I'll grasp some habaneros, I'll
be a happy man.
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

Vilco wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> i've seen recipes for chili oil (or 'red oil') that didn't seem too
>> difficult, but i wouldn't **** with it. maybe thirty-forty years ago
>> when your alternative was mail-order, but not now.
>
> Try it and you'll become addicted to it. Here it's called "olio santo"
> ("holy oil") and it is so easy to do... just choose your favorite dry
> chilies and put them into an oil you like, as EV olive oil, and let it rest
> for some time, say 3 weeks for example. Then you'll have your orange/red hot
> oil to use with anything you want: in a sandwich, on a pasta dish, on
> BBQed/grilled meat, pizza...
> I'm a great fan of olio santo. If and when I'll grasp some habaneros, I'll
> be a happy man.

That method will work but you get a much stronger result with hot oil.
Typically the Chinese version is made using hot oil which is just hot
enough that it won't burn the chilis.

blake murphy wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:36:36 -0400, George wrote:
>> My current favorite is Pearl River Bridge dark mushroom. I also have a
>> jug of Kikkoman for some Japanese dishes that taste better with it.
>
> what do you like to use the mushroom soy in, george?
>
> your pal,
> blake

I use it interchangeably. The soy sauce taste is still there with a nice
complex mushroom flavor.

Michael > wrote:

>"blake murphy" > wrote in message

>> the ones i've seen seem awfully expensive in terms of bang for the buck.

>Aye, are your ones over there organic too? As soon as that word is added to
>a product the price seems to increase...a bit like anything with medical in
>the title, no matter how simple it is.

San-J makes both regular and low-sodium tamari, in both organic
and conventional.

What it doesnt' make is low-cost tamari...

Steve

George wrote:

> That method will work but you get a much stronger result with hot oil.
> Typically the Chinese version is made using hot oil which is just hot
> enough that it won't burn the chilis.

Very interesting advice, thanks, I'll sure give it a try for my next jar of
hot oil.
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:34:09 +1000, Michael wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>> **Have you tried the Japanese tamari? There's some nice organic ones, in
>>> fact every one I've seen has been organic, and they're normally wheat
>>> free
>>> too, which is obviously handy for coeliacs. Not sure about the sodium
>>> levels though.
>>
>> the ones i've seen seem awfully expensive in terms of bang for the buck.
>
> Aye, are your ones over there organic too? As soon as that word is added to
> a product the price seems to increase...a bit like anything with medical in
> the title, no matter how simple it is.

yes, the one i bought was eden tamari:

<http://www.edenfoods.com/mailing/2007/05/18/>

....which is a pretty big 'organic' company here. oddly enough, i don't see
tamari much in the asian stores i frequent, but most of them aren't
japanese-oriented.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:19:10 GMT, Vilco wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> i've seen recipes for chili oil (or 'red oil') that didn't seem too
>> difficult, but i wouldn't **** with it. maybe thirty-forty years ago
>> when your alternative was mail-order, but not now.
>
> Try it and you'll become addicted to it. Here it's called "olio santo"
> ("holy oil") and it is so easy to do... just choose your favorite dry
> chilies and put them into an oil you like, as EV olive oil, and let it rest
> for some time, say 3 weeks for example. Then you'll have your orange/red hot
> oil to use with anything you want: in a sandwich, on a pasta dish, on
> BBQed/grilled meat, pizza...
> I'm a great fan of olio santo. If and when I'll grasp some habaneros, I'll
> be a happy man.

i could see it as being superior in terms of freshness. i only use it in
asian foods, so not sure olive oil would be good for me. maybe i'll think
about it again when i run out of the bottle i bought last week.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:36:35 -0400, George wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:36:36 -0400, George wrote:
>>> My current favorite is Pearl River Bridge dark mushroom. I also have a
>>> jug of Kikkoman for some Japanese dishes that taste better with it.
>>
>> what do you like to use the mushroom soy in, george?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> I use it interchangeably. The soy sauce taste is still there with a nice
> complex mushroom flavor.

i'll give it a try.

i once (by mistake) used some pearl river bridge 'dark' soy for fried rice,
and the results were a little odd.

your pal,
blake