I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?

Jay > wrote:

>I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
>tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
>the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
>liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
>The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
>Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?

Yeah, it's normal -- that is olive oil in the jar, which (at
least in certain grades) is solid at refrigerator temperature
(at least for some refrigerators).

When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.

Steve

It is perfectly normal. As soon as they are returned to room temp or heated,
they'll look like what you bought.

--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com
"Jay" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
> tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
> the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
> liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
>

"Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Jay > wrote:
>
>>I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
>>tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
>>the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
>>liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
>>The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
>>Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
snippage
> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>
> Steve

Steve, for many of southern recipes, you need the oil and salt for the
finished flavor of the dish. Ex: orecchiette ai broccoletti

On Aug 26, 7:31*pm, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel ...
>
> > Jay > wrote:
>
> >>I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
> >>tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
> >>the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
> >>liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
> >>The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
> >>Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
> snippage
> > When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
> > a new container. *This is just for convenience, no problem
> > to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>
> > Steve
>
> Steve, for many of southern recipes, you need the oil and salt for the
> finished flavor of the dish. *Ex: orecchiette ai broccoletti

Thanks to all, you've set my mind at rest.
Bit ugly when I'm trying to cut it up for a caeser salad.
Never thought of rinsing it - thought I might rinse the flavour away

Jay wrote:
> On Aug 26, 7:31 pm, "Giusi" > wrote:
>> "Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel ...
>>
>>> Jay > wrote:
>>>> I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
>>>> tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
>>>> the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
>>>> liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
>>>> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
>>>> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
>> snippage
>>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>>> Steve
>> Steve, for many of southern recipes, you need the oil and salt for the
>> finished flavor of the dish. Ex: orecchiette ai broccoletti
>
> Thanks to all, you've set my mind at rest.
> Bit ugly when I'm trying to cut it up for a caeser salad.
> Never thought of rinsing it - thought I might rinse the flavour away

Just put them out to warm up a little while before you need them. All
that happened is the oil became a solid.

Steve Pope wrote:
> Jay > wrote:
>
>> I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
>> tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
>> the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
>> liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
>> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
>> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
>
> Yeah, it's normal -- that is olive oil in the jar, which (at
> least in certain grades) is solid at refrigerator temperature
> (at least for some refrigerators).
>
> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>
> Steve

Can I suggest that you are loosing a lot of the flavor that has
dissolved in the oil? If you store partial contents in the fridge just
let them warm up a little and the oil will quickly liquefy.

Giusi > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio

>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.

>Steve, for many of southern recipes, you need the oil and salt for the
>finished flavor of the dish. Ex: orecchiette ai broccoletti

Sure, go for it if you want anchovie tin fluid in your
dish. I generally discard it, and rinse some of the
salt off (but I don't go the next step of soaking the
anchovies, which removes most of the salt).

I normally use anochovies for pasta puttanesca, or Caesar
salads. Sometimes -- once per decade -- I make anchovie
butter for serving atop of steak or lamb. No anchovie
juice required for these purposes.

Steve

George > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.

>Can I suggest that you are loosing a lot of the flavor that has
>dissolved in the oil?

Yes, but you can compensate by using more anchovies to
begin with.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:

> George > wrote:
>
>>Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>
>>Can I suggest that you are loosing a lot of the flavor that has
>>dissolved in the oil?
>
> Yes, but you can compensate by using more anchovies to
> begin with.

Or he could just tight the oil that's been loosed.

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

Steve Pope wrote:
> Giusi > wrote:
>
>> "Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>
>> Steve, for many of southern recipes, you need the oil and salt for
>> the finished flavor of the dish. Ex: orecchiette ai broccoletti
>
> Sure, go for it if you want anchovie tin fluid in your
> dish.

The OP said he bought it in a jar.

Jill

jmcquown > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> Giusi > wrote:

>>> "Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio

>>>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>>>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>>>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.

>>> Steve, for many of southern recipes, you need the oil and salt for
>>> the finished flavor of the dish. Ex: orecchiette ai broccoletti

>> Sure, go for it if you want anchovie tin fluid in your
>> dish.

>The OP said he bought it in a jar.

Yes, certainly. There was thread drift, to tins.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
> jmcquown > wrote:
>
>> Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> Giusi > wrote:
>
>>>> "Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>>>>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>>>>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>>>>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>
>>>> Steve, for many of southern recipes, you need the oil and salt for
>>>> the finished flavor of the dish. Ex: orecchiette ai broccoletti
>
>>> Sure, go for it if you want anchovie tin fluid in your
>>> dish.
>
>> The OP said he bought it in a jar.
>
> Yes, certainly. There was thread drift, to tins.
>
> Steve

I know Copacetic

Steve Pope wrote:
> Jay > wrote:
>
>> I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
>> tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
>> the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
>> liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
>> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
>> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
>
> Yeah, it's normal -- that is olive oil in the jar, which (at
> least in certain grades) is solid at refrigerator temperature
> (at least for some refrigerators).
>
> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>
> Steve

I guess you could just let the jar warm enough to melt the solidified
olive oil before using the anchovies..? It shouldn't take long.
If you are daring and adventurous, and enjoy fishing with dynamite, you
could put the jar in the microwave oven for 10 seconds or so.

On 2008-08-26, Jay > wrote:

> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?

Yeah. Oil in cold gets funky.

Look for salt-packed anchovies. Hard to find, but so superior to anything
in oil.

nb

"none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Steve Pope wrote:
>> Jay > wrote:
>>
>>> I bought a jar for the first time (previously had them from small
>>> tins). Used a couple in a salad and put the jar in the fridge (as per
>>> the label). 2 days later I go to get them out of the fridge and the
>>> liquid in the jar has turned into a mushy white mush!
>> Yeah, it's normal -- that is olive oil in the jar, which (at
>> least in certain grades) is solid at refrigerator temperature
>> (at least for some refrigerators).
>>
>> When I open a tin, I rinse off the oil and transfer to
>> a new container. This is just for convenience, no problem
>> to let it solidify instead, then scrape/rinse it away later.
>>
>> Steve
>
> I guess you could just let the jar warm enough to melt the solidified
> olive oil before using the anchovies..? It shouldn't take long.
> If you are daring and adventurous, and enjoy fishing with dynamite, you
> could put the jar in the microwave oven for 10 seconds or so.

None of that is necessary. You need to leave the anchovies you aren't using
in the oil and salt that are preseving them. Don't heat them until you are
using them. These bottles are not cheap, but they will happily sit in the
fridge door for months as you use the anchovies filet by filet, which opened
tins will not.
Remove the amount you need and within moments it will be as you expect it to
be. If cooking with them, toss them into the pan and they will dissolve and
disappear just like any other anchovy.

"notbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On 2008-08-26, Jay > wrote:
>
>> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
>> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
>
> Yeah. Oil in cold gets funky.
>
> Look for salt-packed anchovies. Hard to find, but so superior to anything
> in oil.
>
> nb

I disagree. There is a reason to use one or the other depending on the
recipe. If the recipe can use either it will say so and tell you what to do
with the ones you plan to use.

This is like that arritude that fresh egg pasta is always better than dried
pasta. It's two different things, each good at what it does.

Giusi wrote on Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:50:41 +0200:

> "notbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> On 2008-08-26, Jay > wrote:
>>
>>> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
>>> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be
>>> prevented?
>>
>> Yeah. Oil in cold gets funky.
>>
>> Look for salt-packed anchovies. Hard to find, but so
>> superior to anything in oil.
>>
>> nb

> I disagree. There is a reason to use one or the other
> depending on the recipe. If the recipe can use either it will
> say so and tell you what to do with the ones you plan to use.

Watching this thread, I get the impression that many people like the
taste of anchovies. I only like them as a contribution to an overall
flavor and I can't stand them on pizza.

Anchovies are not as bad as Vietnamese fish sauce, Nuoc Mam. I once
tried it by itself but never again. I had to use mouthwash and a strong
drink to get rid of the quintessentially fishy taste. However, at the
right concentration, fish sauce also improves overall flavor and works
in dipping sauces.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:18:08 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> Anchovies are not as bad as Vietnamese fish sauce, Nuoc Mam. I once
>tried it by itself but never again. I had to use mouthwash and a strong
>drink to get rid of the quintessentially fishy taste. However, at the
>right concentration, fish sauce also improves overall flavor and works
>in dipping sauces.

Guess you found out the hard way that it's not like soy. I like it,
but I'd never think of it for dipping or eating plain. It's a great
accent to a bigger recipe.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"James Silverton" > wrote in
:


>> I disagree. There is a reason to use one or the other
>> depending on the recipe. If the recipe can use either it will
>> say so and tell you what to do with the ones you plan to use.
>
> Watching this thread, I get the impression that many people like the
> taste of anchovies. I only like them as a contribution to an overall
> flavor and I can't stand them on pizza.


I'm just about to try some 'White Anchovies'. A mate of mine is anchovie
mad and has found some somewhere!!


But for your usual run of the mill tinned or bottled anchovies, try
putting the lot in a saucepan over moderate heat, stirring all the
while. The fish will melt down to a sauce and lose that 'hairy-fish'
taste, and it's quite lovely when used in gravies or casseroles etc.


>
> Anchovies are not as bad as Vietnamese fish sauce, Nuoc Mam. I once
> tried it by itself but never again. I had to use mouthwash and a
strong
> drink to get rid of the quintessentially fishy taste. However, at the
> right concentration, fish sauce also improves overall flavor and works
> in dipping sauces.
>


Fish sauce is *never* used by itself!! Usually used with several other
ingredients in a dipping sauce, or added to a curry at the end for a bit
of a flavour hit.

Fish sauce is often made with anchovies and is made by leaving large
quantities of fish to ferment in salt, and straining off the 'juice' :-)

http://importfood.com/how_fish_sauce_is_made.html

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/fea...ishsauce1.html

"In case you are not yet familiar with fish sauce, it is that salty,
smelly brown liquid made from fish that is the single, most important
flavoring ingredient in Thai cooking (also well-loved in Laos, Cambodia,
Vietnam, Burma and the Philippines). Used like salt in western cooking
and soy sauce in Chinese cooking, good-quality fish sauce imparts a
distinct aroma and flavor all its own. It is indispensable in the Thai
kitchen as Thai food wouldn't be quite the same without it.

Called "nam bplah" in Thai, or literally "fish water," genuine fish
sauce is the water, or juice, in the flesh of fish that is extracted in
the process of prolonged salting and fermentation. It is made from small
fish that would otherwise have little value for consumption. This can
either be freshwater or sal****er fish, though today, most fish sauce is
made from the latter as pollution and dams have drastically reduced the
once plentiful supply of freshwater fish in the heartlands of Southeast
Asia.

Among marine fish, anchovies and related species of small schooling fish
from two to five inches in length are commonly used, as they can be
found in bountiful supply in the coastal waters of the Gulf of Thailand
and the South China Sea. Larger varieties of fish, such as mackerel and
sardines, also make good fish sauce, but because they are relatively
more expensive due to their value as a food fish, they are seldom used
in the commercial production of fish sauce.

For fish sauce to develop a pleasant, fragrant aroma and taste, the fish
must be very fresh. As soon as fishing boats return with their catch,
the fish are rinsed and drained, then mixed with sea salt – two to three
parts fish to one part salt by weight. They are then filled into large
earthenware jars, lined on the bottom with a layer of salt, and topped
with a layer of salt. A woven bamboo mat is placed over the fish and
weighted down with heavy rocks to keep the fish from floating when water
inside them are extracted out by the salt and fermentation process.

The jars are covered and left in a sunny location for nine months to a
year. From time to time, they are uncovered to air out and to let the
fish be exposed to direct, hot sunshine, which helps "digest" the fish
and turn them into fluid. The periodic "sunning" produces a fish sauce
of superior quality, giving it a fragrant aroma and a clear, reddish
brown color.

After enough months have passed, the liquid is removed from the jars,
preferably through a spigot on the bottom of the jars, so that it passes
through the layers of fish remains; or by siphoning. Any sediments are
strained out with a clean cloth. The filtered fish sauce is filled into
other clean jars and allowed to air out in the sun for a couple of weeks
to dissipate the strong fish odors. It is then ready for bottling. The
finished product is 100-percent, top-grade, genuine fish sauce. "

--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

PeterLucas wrote on Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:01:35 +0000 (UTC):

> Fish sauce is *never* used by itself!! Usually used with
> several other ingredients in a dipping sauce, or added to a
> curry at the end for a bit of a flavour hit.

> Fish sauce is often made with anchovies and is made by leaving
> large quantities of fish to ferment in salt, and straining off
> the 'juice' :-)

> http://importfood.com/how_fish_sauce_is_made.html

> http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/fea...ishsauce1.html

> "In case you are not yet familiar with fish sauce, it is that
> salty, smelly brown liquid made from fish that is the single,
> most important flavoring ingredient in Thai cooking (also
> well-loved in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma and the
> Philippines). Used like salt in western cooking and soy sauce
> in Chinese cooking, good-quality fish sauce imparts a distinct
> aroma and flavor all its own. It is indispensable in the Thai
> kitchen as Thai food wouldn't be quite the same without it.

> Called "nam bplah" in Thai, or literally "fish water," genuine
> fish sauce is the water, or juice, in the flesh of fish that
> is extracted in the process of prolonged salting and
> fermentation. It is made from small fish that would otherwise
> have little value for consumption. This can either be
> freshwater or sal****er fish, though today, most fish sauce is
> made from the latter as pollution and dams have drastically
> reduced the once plentiful supply of freshwater fish in the
> heartlands of Southeast Asia.

> Among marine fish, anchovies and related species of small
> schooling fish from two to five inches in length are commonly
> used, as they can be found in bountiful supply in the coastal
> waters of the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea. Larger
> varieties of fish, such as mackerel and sardines, also make
> good fish sauce, but because they are relatively more
> expensive due to their value as a food fish, they are seldom
> used in the commercial production of fish sauce.

> For fish sauce to develop a pleasant, fragrant aroma and
> taste, the fish must be very fresh. As soon as fishing boats
> return with their catch, the fish are rinsed and drained, then
> mixed with sea salt – two to three parts fish to one part salt
> by weight. They are then filled into large earthenware jars,
> lined on the bottom with a layer of salt, and topped with a
> layer of salt. A woven bamboo mat is placed over the fish and
> weighted down with heavy rocks to keep the fish from floating
> when water inside them are extracted out by the salt and
> fermentation process.

> The jars are covered and left in a sunny location for nine
> months to a year. From time to time, they are uncovered to air
> out and to let the fish be exposed to direct, hot sunshine,
> which helps "digest" the fish and turn them into fluid. The
> periodic "sunning" produces a fish sauce of superior quality,
> giving it a fragrant aroma and a clear, reddish brown color.

> After enough months have passed, the liquid is removed from
> the jars, preferably through a spigot on the bottom of the
> jars, so that it passes through the layers of fish remains; or
> by siphoning. Any sediments are strained out with a clean
> cloth. The filtered fish sauce is filled into other clean jars
> and allowed to air out in the sun for a couple of weeks to
> dissipate the strong fish odors. It is then ready for
> bottling. The finished product is 100-percent, top-grade,
> genuine fish sauce. "

A fascinating discussion; thanks indeed! In my defence, I would say that
my tasting of fish sauce occurred twice. Once was an experiment just to
see and the second was to check what was in two similar bottles at a pho
restaurant; one was hoison sauce and one wasn't!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Oct 19, 9:29 am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> PeterLucas wrote on Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:01:35 +0000 (UTC):
>
>
>
> > Fish sauce is *never* used by itself!! Usually used with
> > several other ingredients in a dipping sauce, or added to a
> > curry at the end for a bit of a flavour hit.
> > Fish sauce is often made with anchovies and is made by leaving
> > large quantities of fish to ferment in salt, and straining off
> > the 'juice' :-)
> >http://importfood.com/how_fish_sauce_is_made.html
> >http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/fea...ishsauce1.html
> > "In case you are not yet familiar with fish sauce, it is that
> > salty, smelly brown liquid made from fish that is the single,
> > most important flavoring ingredient in Thai cooking (also
> > well-loved in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma and the
> > Philippines). Used like salt in western cooking and soy sauce
> > in Chinese cooking, good-quality fish sauce imparts a distinct
> > aroma and flavor all its own. It is indispensable in the Thai
> > kitchen as Thai food wouldn't be quite the same without it.
> > Called "nam bplah" in Thai, or literally "fish water," genuine
> > fish sauce is the water, or juice, in the flesh of fish that
> > is extracted in the process of prolonged salting and
> > fermentation. It is made from small fish that would otherwise
> > have little value for consumption. This can either be
> > freshwater or sal****er fish, though today, most fish sauce is
> > made from the latter as pollution and dams have drastically
> > reduced the once plentiful supply of freshwater fish in the
> > heartlands of Southeast Asia.
> > Among marine fish, anchovies and related species of small
> > schooling fish from two to five inches in length are commonly
> > used, as they can be found in bountiful supply in the coastal
> > waters of the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea. Larger
> > varieties of fish, such as mackerel and sardines, also make
> > good fish sauce, but because they are relatively more
> > expensive due to their value as a food fish, they are seldom
> > used in the commercial production of fish sauce.
> > For fish sauce to develop a pleasant, fragrant aroma and
> > taste, the fish must be very fresh. As soon as fishing boats
> > return with their catch, the fish are rinsed and drained, then
> > mixed with sea salt – two to three parts fish to one part salt
> > by weight. They are then filled into large earthenware jars,
> > lined on the bottom with a layer of salt, and topped with a
> > layer of salt. A woven bamboo mat is placed over the fish and
> > weighted down with heavy rocks to keep the fish from floating
> > when water inside them are extracted out by the salt and
> > fermentation process.
> > The jars are covered and left in a sunny location for nine
> > months to a year. From time to time, they are uncovered to air
> > out and to let the fish be exposed to direct, hot sunshine,
> > which helps "digest" the fish and turn them into fluid. The
> > periodic "sunning" produces a fish sauce of superior quality,
> > giving it a fragrant aroma and a clear, reddish brown color.
> > After enough months have passed, the liquid is removed from
> > the jars, preferably through a spigot on the bottom of the
> > jars, so that it passes through the layers of fish remains; or
> > by siphoning. Any sediments are strained out with a clean
> > cloth. The filtered fish sauce is filled into other clean jars
> > and allowed to air out in the sun for a couple of weeks to
> > dissipate the strong fish odors. It is then ready for
> > bottling. The finished product is 100-percent, top-grade,
> > genuine fish sauce. "
>
> A fascinating discussion; thanks indeed! In my defence, I would say that
> my tasting of fish sauce occurred twice. Once was an experiment just to
> see and the second was to check what was in two similar bottles at a pho
> restaurant; one was hoison sauce and one wasn't!
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Nuoc mam, or patis, or nam pla or by any name is a miracle. When I
discovered it, I started putting it in anything where I would use
salt. I've calmed down some, and now trying to do minimum sodium, so
now it is more of a treat.

It sort of a secret ingredient - as stinky as it is in the bottle, it
doesn't make the dish smell or taste like fish. A subtly richer
flavor of salt-enhancement.

b

"Giusi" > wrote:
> "notbob"
>
> > On 2008-08-26, Jay > wrote:
>
> >> The ingredients are anchovies, olive oil and salt.
> >> Is this normal behaviour? Are they usable? Can it be prevented?
>
> > Yeah. �Oil in cold gets funky.
>
> > Look for salt-packed anchovies. �Hard to find, but so superior to anything
> > in oil.
>
> > nb
>
> I disagree. �

Oh STFU... for anchovy stock just save your yearly bath water. heheh

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

James Silverton > wrote:

> I only like them as a contribution to an overall
> flavor and I can't stand them on pizza.

Anchovies are a particular kind of fish, Engraulidae spp. They can be
cooked fresh, i.e. when they are not brined, etc. Then they taste a bit
like fresh sardines. They can be prepared in many ways, and they can be
brined or marinated, etc. in many ways, too. I do not like the way they
are usually prepared in Italy (to be put on pizza, etc.), either, as
they tend to be too dry and salty for my taste, but I adore them the way
they are typically brined in Germany, Baltic countries and Russia, where
they resemble somewhat similarly brined/marinated (not smoked) sprats,
which are actually another kettle of fish. They taste salty, too, but
in a different way, and they almost melt in the mouth. Both kinds are
available here in Germany.

Victor

"James Silverton" > wrote in news:aDGKk.2274
:


>
> A fascinating discussion; thanks indeed! In my defence, I would say that
> my tasting of fish sauce occurred twice. Once was an experiment just to
> see and the second was to check what was in two similar bottles at a pho
> restaurant; one was hoison sauce and one wasn't!
>



I would have just looked at the consistency of the sauce....... before
having a glug!! ;-)



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

On Oct 18, 5:01 pm, PeterLucas > wrote:
> "James Silverton" > wrote :
>
> >> I disagree. There is a reason to use one or the other
> >> depending on the recipe. If the recipe can use either it will
> >> say so and tell you what to do with the ones you plan to use.
>
> > Watching this thread, I get the impression that many people like the
> > taste of anchovies. I only like them as a contribution to an overall
> > flavor and I can't stand them on pizza.
>
> I'm just about to try some 'White Anchovies'. A mate of mine is anchovie
> mad and has found some somewhere!!
>
> But for your usual run of the mill tinned or bottled anchovies, try
> putting the lot in a saucepan over moderate heat, stirring all the
> while. The fish will melt down to a sauce and lose that 'hairy-fish'
> taste, and it's quite lovely when used in gravies or casseroles etc.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anchovies are not as bad as Vietnamese fish sauce, Nuoc Mam. I once
> > tried it by itself but never again. I had to use mouthwash and a
> strong
> > drink to get rid of the quintessentially fishy taste. However, at the
> > right concentration, fish sauce also improves overall flavor and works
> > in dipping sauces.
>
> Fish sauce is *never* used by itself!! Usually used with several other
> ingredients in a dipping sauce, or added to a curry at the end for a bit
> of a flavour hit.
>
> Fish sauce is often made with anchovies and is made by leaving large
> quantities of fish to ferment in salt, and straining off the 'juice' :-)
>
> http://importfood.com/how_fish_sauce_is_made.html
>
> http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/fea...ishsauce1.html
>
> "In case you are not yet familiar with fish sauce, it is that salty,
> smelly brown liquid made from fish that is the single, most important
> flavoring ingredient in Thai cooking (also well-loved in Laos, Cambodia,
> Vietnam, Burma and the Philippines). Used like salt in western cooking
> and soy sauce in Chinese cooking, good-quality fish sauce imparts a
> distinct aroma and flavor all its own. It is indispensable in the Thai
> kitchen as Thai food wouldn't be quite the same without it.
>
> Called "nam bplah" in Thai, or literally "fish water," genuine fish
> sauce is the water, or juice, in the flesh of fish that is extracted in
> the process of prolonged salting and fermentation. It is made from small
> fish that would otherwise have little value for consumption. This can
> either be freshwater or sal****er fish, though today, most fish sauce is
> made from the latter as pollution and dams have drastically reduced the
> once plentiful supply of freshwater fish in the heartlands of Southeast
> Asia.
>
> Among marine fish, anchovies and related species of small schooling fish
> from two to five inches in length are commonly used, as they can be
> found in bountiful supply in the coastal waters of the Gulf of Thailand
> and the South China Sea. Larger varieties of fish, such as mackerel and
> sardines, also make good fish sauce, but because they are relatively
> more expensive due to their value as a food fish, they are seldom used
> in the commercial production of fish sauce.
>
> For fish sauce to develop a pleasant, fragrant aroma and taste, the fish
> must be very fresh. As soon as fishing boats return with their catch,
> the fish are rinsed and drained, then mixed with sea salt – two to three
> parts fish to one part salt by weight. They are then filled into large
> earthenware jars, lined on the bottom with a layer of salt, and topped
> with a layer of salt. A woven bamboo mat is placed over the fish and
> weighted down with heavy rocks to keep the fish from floating when water
> inside them are extracted out by the salt and fermentation process.
>
> The jars are covered and left in a sunny location for nine months to a
> year. From time to time, they are uncovered to air out and to let the
> fish be exposed to direct, hot sunshine, which helps "digest" the fish
> and turn them into fluid. The periodic "sunning" produces a fish sauce
> of superior quality, giving it a fragrant aroma and a clear, reddish
> brown color.
>
> After enough months have passed, the liquid is removed from the jars,
> preferably through a spigot on the bottom of the jars, so that it passes
> through the layers of fish remains; or by siphoning. Any sediments are
> strained out with a clean cloth. The filtered fish sauce is filled into
> other clean jars and allowed to air out in the sun for a couple of weeks
> to dissipate the strong fish odors. It is then ready for bottling. The
> finished product is 100-percent, top-grade, genuine fish sauce. "

Wow, this explanation makes fish sauce a very desirable food item I
grew up (in SE Asia) with the notion that fish sauce is dirty food,
thanks to my parents not blaming them; they're probably referring to
the homemade version, sold in the market until Thailand produced them
in mass scale. Here I buy the one from Thailand; family, whoever
still living there, do not eat fish sauce or fish paste but they find
a replacement in buying a particular dried fish (lost of meat and very
expensive and not available in Asian stores in US) to soak in water
and use the liquid in dishes that calls for fish sauce.
>
> --
> Peter Lucas
> Brisbane
> Australia
>
> If we are not meant to eat animals,
> why are they made of meat?

PeterLucas wrote on Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:50:04 +0000 (UTC):

>> A fascinating discussion; thanks indeed! In my defence, I
>> would say that my tasting of fish sauce occurred twice. Once
>> was an experiment just to see and the second was to check
>> what was in two similar bottles at a pho restaurant; one was
>> hoison sauce and one wasn't!
>>
> I would have just looked at the consistency of the
> sauce....... before having a glug!! ;-)

Some people insist on having the last word :-) A fraction of a spoonful
was enough and some types of fish sauce are quite thick. The brand I
prefer is Golden Boy which is clear and thin but was not that in the pho
place!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Oct 19, 1:45 pm, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> PeterLucas wrote on Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:50:04 +0000 (UTC):
>
> >> A fascinating discussion; thanks indeed! In my defence, I
> >> would say that my tasting of fish sauce occurred twice. Once
> >> was an experiment just to see and the second was to check
> >> what was in two similar bottles at a pho restaurant; one was
> >> hoison sauce and one wasn't!
>
> > I would have just looked at the consistency of the
> > sauce....... before having a glug!! ;-)
>
> Some people insist on having the last word :-) A fraction of a spoonful
> was enough and some types of fish sauce are quite thick. The brand I
> prefer is Golden Boy which is clear and thin but was not that in the pho
> place!
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Just now got my first Golden Boy. Used to use Tipros in the plastic
bottle, or that patis in a white lable. GB has by far the best lable
(a baby in an aura, holding a bottle with a picture of a baby in an
aura).

b

On 2008-10-19, bulka > wrote:

> Just now got my first Golden Boy. Used to use Tipros in the plastic
> bottle, or that patis in a white lable. GB has by far the best lable
> (a baby in an aura, holding a bottle with a picture of a baby in an
> aura).

One of the few condiments that came East with me when I moved. Wish I kept
my Dragon Fly black soy sauce, too, though blackstrap molasses is a good
sub.

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/brands.html

nb