"Anonymous" > wrote in message
news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
> read the truth he
>
> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>
> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>

I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
mix of chemicals, IMO.

"Zeppo_m" > wrote in message
...
>> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>>> read the truth he
>>>
>>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>>
>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>>
>>
>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
>> mix of chemicals, IMO.
>
> My cardiologist would tend to disagree.
>

Saturated fat is a killer.

> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>> read the truth he
>>
>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>
>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>
>
> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
> mix of chemicals, IMO.

My cardiologist would tend to disagree.

Jon

On Wed 27 Aug 2008 08:04:48p, Zeppo_m told us...

>> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>>> read the truth he
>>>
>>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>>
>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>>
>>
>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than
a
>> mix of chemicals, IMO.
>
> My cardiologist would tend to disagree.
>
> Jon
>
>
>

My cardiologist said cook with olive oil, but enjoy a modicum of butter.
He's not a fan of margarines. Having said that, I do use a Canola and
flaxseed oil margarine that has 0 transfats, no cholesterol, and is not
hydrogenated. That seems pretty safe.

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Wednesday, 08(VIII)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Labor Day
4dys 3hrs 51mins
*******************************************
I'm so broke, I can't even pay attention.
*******************************************

"Zeppo_m" > wrote in message
...
>> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>>> read the truth he
>>>
>>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>>
>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>>
>>
>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
>> mix of chemicals, IMO.
>
> My cardiologist would tend to disagree.
>
> Jon


Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.

Ms P

"Ms P" > wrote
>
>
> Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
> current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.
>

Nothing has changed about saturated fat. It's a killer, particularly for
sedentary people, and most of us are sedentary. Even eggs, which are very
high in cholesterol, are not in and of themselves bad for you, but the
cheese and bacon and butter we have with them that clogs arteries.

Butter is *not* good for you. Doing without altogether and just using
monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best. This leaves out the
whole topic of margarine.

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:28:34 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>Butter is *not* good for you.

Putting hands over ears.

>Doing without altogether and just using
>monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best.

What would you suggest as a beginner for butter lovers?




--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"sf" wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:28:34 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>Butter is *not* good for you.
>
> Putting hands over ears.
>
>>Doing without altogether and just using
>>monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best.
>
> What would you suggest as a beginner for butter lovers?


I suggest they put their hands over their eyes when cybercat posts.

I think I'll eat a stick of butter and a pound of cheese now.


TFM®

"Zeppo_m" > wrote in message
...
>> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>>> read the truth he
>>>
>>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>>
>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>>
>>
>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
>> mix of chemicals, IMO.
>
> My cardiologist would tend to disagree.
>
> Jon
>

My wife's agrees. Butter in moderation over partially hydrogenated oils.
Perhaps you need an enlightened cardiologist.

"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ms P" > wrote
>>
>>
>> Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
>> current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.
>>
>
> Nothing has changed about saturated fat. It's a killer, particularly for
> sedentary people, and most of us are sedentary. Even eggs, which are very
> high in cholesterol, are not in and of themselves bad for you, but the
> cheese and bacon and butter we have with them that clogs arteries.
>
> Butter is *not* good for you. Doing without altogether and just using
> monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best. This leaves out the
> whole topic of margarine.

A very recent study of low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.

Ms P

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

>>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's

>>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than
>>> a mix of chemicals, IMO.
>>
>> My cardiologist would tend to disagree.

> My wife's agrees. Butter in moderation over partially hydrogenated oils.
> Perhaps you need an enlightened cardiologist.

The key is in moderation. Margarine hype makes folks use more, because they
'think' it's ok as long as thats what it is.

Modern tricks to lowering cholestrol, as you say, have changed. Using the
right fats where it counts, can mean lower overall cholestrol than using the
'lower' ones to excess.

In article >, "Ms P" > wrote:
>
>"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>> "Ms P" > wrote
>>>
>>> Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
>>> current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.
>>
>> Nothing has changed about saturated fat. It's a killer, particularly for
>> sedentary people, and most of us are sedentary. Even eggs, which are very
>> high in cholesterol, are not in and of themselves bad for you, but the
>> cheese and bacon and butter we have with them that clogs arteries.
>>
>> Butter is *not* good for you. Doing without altogether and just using
>> monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best. This leaves out the
>> whole topic of margarine.
>
>A very recent study of low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
>People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.

You know, it's clear the good citizens of developed nations in the
modern world really have nothing serious to worry about.

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:32:30 -0500, "Ms P" >
wrote:
>
>"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Ms P" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>> Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
>>> current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing has changed about saturated fat. It's a killer, particularly for
>> sedentary people, and most of us are sedentary. Even eggs, which are very
>> high in cholesterol, are not in and of themselves bad for you, but the
>> cheese and bacon and butter we have with them that clogs arteries.
>>
>> Butter is *not* good for you. Doing without altogether and just using
>> monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best. This leaves out the
>> whole topic of margarine.
>
>A very recent study of low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
>People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.
>

Hubby, the butter, cheese and bacon lover, had a stent put in a couple
of weeks ago. He's off it all, including red meat, because he doesn't
want to do *that* again. The nutrition class he took also said to
stay away from butter and fats in general. We're eating a lot of fish
(I will never be a fish lover), chicken and vegetables now.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Anonymous" > wrote in message
> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>> read the truth he
>>
>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>
>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>
>
> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
> mix of chemicals, IMO.
>
Me neither. I like butter. I do not like margarine. It is okay for
greasing baking pans. It is better than butter for mixing with Frank's
sauce for hot wings, but it is no substitute for butter in baking or as
a spread.

Ms P wrote:
>
>
> A very recent study of low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
> People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.

My wife follows a low carb diet. She eats lots of butter, cheese, bacon,
and eggs but avoids carbs, and she has no problem with cholesterol.

<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:28:34 -0400, "cybercat" >
> wrote:
>
>>Butter is *not* good for you.
>
> Putting hands over ears.
>
>>Doing without altogether and just using
>>monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best.
>
> What would you suggest as a beginner for butter lovers?
>

Not a thing. My mother would not have been happy with anything BUT real
butter, and when she died, several major arteries were 3/4 blocked. That was
not the point. The OP said butter was better than margarine in terms of
general health. Someone came back and said, "that is not what my
cardiologist says." And it is true. Saturated fats are the big culprits. The
"new findings" about transfats affect that fact in no way at all.

"Ms P" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ms P" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>> Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
>>> current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing has changed about saturated fat. It's a killer, particularly for
>> sedentary people, and most of us are sedentary. Even eggs, which are very
>> high in cholesterol, are not in and of themselves bad for you, but the
>> cheese and bacon and butter we have with them that clogs arteries.
>>
>> Butter is *not* good for you. Doing without altogether and just using
>> monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best. This leaves out the
>> whole topic of margarine.
>
> A very recent study of low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
> People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.
>

Who was talking about low and high carb diets? I have done low carb for
years, and still can lose a pound a day if I need to on Atkins. Saturated
fat is STILL a killer.

"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote
>
>>>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>
>>>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than
>>>> a mix of chemicals, IMO.
>>>
>>> My cardiologist would tend to disagree.
>
>> My wife's agrees. Butter in moderation over partially hydrogenated oils.
>> Perhaps you need an enlightened cardiologist.
>
> The key is in moderation. Margarine hype makes folks use more, because
> they 'think' it's ok as long as thats what it is.
>
> Modern tricks to lowering cholestrol, as you say, have changed. Using the
> right fats where it counts, can mean lower overall cholestrol than using
> the 'lower' ones to excess.
>

Precisely.

<sf> wrote :
>>
>>A very recent study of low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
>>People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.
>>
>
> Hubby, the butter, cheese and bacon lover, had a stent put in a couple
> of weeks ago. He's off it all, including red meat, because he doesn't
> want to do *that* again. The nutrition class he took also said to
> stay away from butter and fats in general. We're eating a lot of fish
> (I will never be a fish lover), chicken and vegetables now.
>

Every other time I eat a bacon, egg and cheese biscuit I say to my husband
"remind me of how much I enjoyed these when I am being intubated for my
first bypass procedure." I'm lucky in that I have excellent cholesterol
(really high HDL and low LDL) and have not had any major health problems at
age 49. It has to be luck and genetics because I have always been a cheese
and egg hound. Not so much butter, but cheese is every bit as bad. I am not
advocating a low-fat "lifestyle" here, I am just saying, a regular diet
high in saturated fat leads to heart disease and heart disease is still the
number one killer in the U.S. People tend to go to extremes and say, "well,
transfats are bad so I will give up the unsaturated fat of margarine for the
saturated fat in butter and I will be better off." Not necessarily.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Anonymous" > wrote in message
>> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>>> read the truth he
>>>
>>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>>
>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>>
>>
>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
>> mix of chemicals, IMO.
> Me neither. I like butter. I do not like margarine. It is okay for
> greasing baking pans. It is better than butter for mixing with Frank's
> sauce for hot wings, but it is no substitute for butter in baking or as a
> spread.

I don't bake, but I LOVE Country Crock Churn Style as a spread on toast,
even though I have to eat fast or it gets soggy. I also prefer scrambled and
fried eggs in CC. Pound cake might be a different story, but for eggs and
toast I like it better than butter. Transfats and all.

On Aug 28, 1:29*pm, "cybercat" > wrote:
> <sf> wrote :
>
>
>
> >>A very recent study of *low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
> >>People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.
>
> > Hubby, the butter, cheese and bacon lover, had a stent put in a couple
> > of weeks ago. *He's off it all, including red meat, because he doesn't
> > want to do *that* again. *The nutrition class he took also said to
> > stay away from butter and fats in general. *We're eating a lot of fish
> > (I will never be a fish lover), chicken and vegetables now.
>
> Every other time I eat a bacon, egg and cheese biscuit I say to my husband
> "remind me of how much I enjoyed these when I am being intubated for my
> first bypass procedure." I'm lucky in that I have excellent cholesterol
> (really high HDL and low LDL) and have not had any major health problems at
> age 49. It has to be luck and genetics because I have always been a cheese
> and egg hound. Not so much butter, but cheese is every bit as bad. I am not
> advocating a low-fat "lifestyle" here, I am just saying, *a regular diet
> high in saturated fat *leads to heart disease and heart disease is still the
> number one killer in the U.S. People tend to go to

Really, it's almost all in the genes, and we can do damn little about
it. People who have never been around smoke die of lung cancer.
People who have been religious about their diets and exercise die
young of heart disease. It's the way it is.

N.

On Thu 28 Aug 2008 06:32:30a, Ms P told us...

>
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ms P" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>> Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
>>> current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing has changed about saturated fat. It's a killer, particularly for
>> sedentary people, and most of us are sedentary. Even eggs, which are
very
>> high in cholesterol, are not in and of themselves bad for you, but the
>> cheese and bacon and butter we have with them that clogs arteries.
>>
>> Butter is *not* good for you. Doing without altogether and just using
>> monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best. This leaves out the
>> whole topic of margarine.
>
> A very recent study of low fat and low carb diets has proven otherwise.
> People on the low carb diets had lower cholesterol levels.
>
> Ms P
>
>

Low fat *and* low carb? What's left to salivate over?

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 08(VIII)/28(XXVIII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Labor Day
3dys 11hrs 24mins
*******************************************
Our civilization has grown past that
point of barbarism where it's possible
to get anything done.

On Wed 27 Aug 2008 10:28:34p, cybercat told us...

>
> "Ms P" > wrote
>>
>>
>> Your cardiologist probably took a one hour course on nutrition. Most
>> current diet "wisdom" is based on 50s and 60s research.
>>
>
> Nothing has changed about saturated fat. It's a killer, particularly for
> sedentary people, and most of us are sedentary. Even eggs, which are very
> high in cholesterol, are not in and of themselves bad for you, but the
> cheese and bacon and butter we have with them that clogs arteries.
>
> Butter is *not* good for you. Doing without altogether and just using
> monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best. This leaves out the
> whole topic of margarine.

We use this margarine in modest amounts, and feel it's fairly healthy:

http://www.canolaharvest.com/canada/.../flaxseed.html


--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Thursday, 08(VIII)/28(XXVIII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Labor Day
3dys 11hrs 13mins
*******************************************
Celibacy is not hereditary.
*******************************************

"Zeppo_m" > wrote in message
...
>> news:20080828010547.C53451A78CE@isole...
>>> read the truth he
>>>
>>> http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/butter.html
>>>
>>> My wife and I switched to butter after the Nurse's
>>> Health study said it was ssfer than margarine.
>>>
>>
>> I never left butter. Natural food products just have to be better than a
>> mix of chemicals, IMO.
>
> My cardiologist would tend to disagree.
>
> Jon


Are you sure?
When did you ask him/her?
Do you have his/her permission to speak for him/her?
Under what circumstances would he/she disagree?
What would they suggest one uses EVOO on Toast?

Oh yes. Tending to disagree and disagreeing are very different. Which is it?

Dimitri

<sf> wrote in message
>
> Hubby, the butter, cheese and bacon lover, had a stent put in a couple
> of weeks ago. He's off it all, including red meat, because he doesn't
> want to do *that* again. The nutrition class he took also said to
> stay away from butter and fats in general. We're eating a lot of fish
> (I will never be a fish lover), chicken and vegetables now.
>

Overall, you are correct in following that diet, but, do your own research.
My wife and I have been to a couple of those nutrition classes and they give
a lot of bad information. Ask questions, use common sense.

One class said that moderate amounts of ice cream were OK, but milkshakes
were not good. I asked why and they could not give me an answer aside from
milkshakes should be avoided. Again I asked, if they both have the same
ingredients, both had the same quantity, what makes one bad? No answer.

Then sausages were not good. I asked about hamburgers. They are OK with
lean meat. Why not lean sausages? I asked and was told they are unhealthy.
I asked if my home made were ok and was told no. Again, I asked what is the
difference if I used the same meat and fat content. Stumped again.

The coumadin clinic is better but not perfect. She's been given a lot of
poor information there too.

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:21:09 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
><sf> wrote in message ...
>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:28:34 -0400, "cybercat" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Butter is *not* good for you.
>>
>> Putting hands over ears.
>>
>>>Doing without altogether and just using
>>>monosaturated or polyunsaturated fats would be best.
>>
>> What would you suggest as a beginner for butter lovers?
>>
>
>Not a thing. My mother would not have been happy with anything BUT real
>butter, and when she died, several major arteries were 3/4 blocked. That was
>not the point. The OP said butter was better than margarine in terms of
>general health. Someone came back and said, "that is not what my
>cardiologist says." And it is true. Saturated fats are the big culprits. The
>"new findings" about transfats affect that fact in no way at all.
>

Thanks for catching me up.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"cybercat" wrote

> "remind me of how much I enjoyed these when I am being intubated for my
> first bypass procedure." I'm lucky in that I have excellent cholesterol
> (really high HDL and low LDL) and have not had any major health problems
> at age 49. It has to be luck and genetics because I have always been a
> cheese and egg hound. Not so much butter, but cheese is every bit as bad.
> I am not advocating a low-fat "lifestyle" here, I am just saying, a
> regular diet high in saturated fat leads to heart disease and heart
> disease is still the number one killer in the U.S. People tend to go to
> extremes and say, "well, transfats are bad so I will give up the
> unsaturated fat of margarine for the saturated fat in butter and I will be
> better off." Not necessarily.

True. Totally. High cholestrol runs in my family. Don howeve can eat
anything and stays stable. Me, I have to follow a lifelong dietary shift to
keep it down to 140 (have even once tested at 120!). I'm where drugs may
not be a good idea so I dont take any. I have *very high* HDL and only
moderately high LDL.

I dont completely avoid any food items, I just am careful to balance the
ones that arent so good for me to reasonable portions for my conditions, and
use some alternative cooking methods to regain the flavor of not having so
much fat transport going on. Some dishes that call for butter, get olive
oil instead (when it works) or a mix of some butter and olive oil. A little
1/8 ts of quality roasted sesame oil goes a long way on veggies so you dont
need or want butter. Some of the reduced fat (or fatfree) products suit me
well so I use those, and ignore the ones that do not taste right to me.