zxcvbob wrote:
>
> Jean B. wrote:
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 09:43:04 -0500, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> "Giusi" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "zxcvbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Not even garlic huh? I didn't expect that. I guess this recipe
>>>>>>> is more authentic than I thought (maybe too authentic for my
>>>>>>> taste, but I'll follow it the first time and adjust next time; I
>>>>>>> can always reseason my portion at the table) Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> Adding your favorite flavors to every foreign recipe is an
>>>>>> unfortunate error that all too many people make.
>>>>> Hear, hear!!
>>>> i understand what you and guisi are saying, but it really depends on
>>>> what
>>>> you're after as the end result, doesn't it? for some, authenticity
>>>> isn't
>>>> everything.
>>>>
>>>> your pal,
>>>> blake
>>>
>>> Understood, but don't, then, call it pork paprikash.
>>>
>> That's an interesting comment, as are other comments in this thread.
>> If a native cook adds a personal touch to such a recipe, does he/she
>> have the right to call it by the original name? When does a recipe's
>> ingredients become codified?
>>
>
>
> In starting this thread, I was trying to find out what an ethnic dish is
b> supposed to be like -- and really surprised to find no garlic, marjoram,
> bayleaf, or caraway seeds.
>
> If I don't like it, I'll reseason my portion at the table. When I make
> it again, I probably won't call it anything :-) so it won't matter if I
> *******ize it.
>
> Bob


I just made a batch and served it over wide egg noodles (with just a
little butter and parsley flakes tossed in the noodles). I think it
would also be good with white rice. I added a pinch of cayenne to my
plate and pretended that I had used a mixture of sweet and half-sharp
paprika. It didn't need any garlic ;-)


Chicken Paprikash

1 pound boneless skinless chicken thighs
2 (maybe 3) Tbsp bacon grease
2 Tbsp sweet paprika (Hungarian, do not use Californian)
1 medium onion, chopped
1 medium green bell pepper, large dice
1 (14.5 ounce) can peeled tomatoes in juice
1/2 cup sour cream
salt and pepper to taste

Cut chicken into large bite-sized pieces. Heat bacon grease in a large
skillet. Add chicken, then sprinkle with 1 Tbsp of the paprika. Cook
chicken over medium-high heat until lightly browned. Add onions and
continue cooking until onions are softened, several minutes.

Add remaining 1 Tbsp paprika and the diced bell pepper. Cook until bell
pepper starts to wilt and the paprika is incorporated into the juice.
Add canned tomatoes with their juice, bring to a boil, and reduce to
simmer. Cook until sauce is slightly thickened, breaking up tomatoes
with a spoon, about 5 minutes.

Remove skillet from heat; stir in sour cream. Season with salt and
pepper, and serve over egg noodles or dumplings.

--
Best regards,
Bob

On Mon 08 Sep 2008 02:54:51p, Victor Sack told us...

> New dishes are sometimes invented in diaspora and often can be
> considered authentic for that diaspora. However, there some dishes that
> are mostly served to round-eyes and other gwai-los and largerly avoided
> by the diaspora itself. I wonder if this is the case with chop suey
> and, if so, whether this dish can be considered really Chinese.

IMHO, the "average" American may still consider chop suey to be really
Chinese, but there are large numbers of Americans who know a great deal
more and definitely know that chop suey originated in America, concocted by
Chinese cooks. IIRC, it dates back as far as the Western Gold Rush of the
1800s. There were many Chinese who were brought to the area to perform all
manner duties, including cooking for and feeding the burgeoning number of
miners. The dish was concocted with what was at hand by a method (stir-
fry) which was common to the cooks. The method alone "legitimized" the
dish as something foreign to the uneducated masses of the era and was long
thought to be an authentic Chinese dish. Of course, later generations
learned it was not.

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 09(IX)/08(VIII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
9wks 6hrs 17mins
*******************************************
I dreamed I saw the bombers turning
into butterflies.
*******************************************

On Mon 08 Sep 2008 05:42:05p, zxcvbob told us...

> zxcvbob wrote:
>>
>> Jean B. wrote:
>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 09:43:04 -0500, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>> "Giusi" > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "zxcvbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Not even garlic huh? I didn't expect that. I guess this recipe
>>>>>>>> is more authentic than I thought (maybe too authentic for my
>>>>>>>> taste, but I'll follow it the first time and adjust next time; I
>>>>>>>> can always reseason my portion at the table) Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>> Adding your favorite flavors to every foreign recipe is an
>>>>>>> unfortunate error that all too many people make.
>>>>>> Hear, hear!!
>>>>> i understand what you and guisi are saying, but it really depends on
>>>>> what
>>>>> you're after as the end result, doesn't it? for some, authenticity
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> your pal,
>>>>> blake
>>>>
>>>> Understood, but don't, then, call it pork paprikash.
>>>>
>>> That's an interesting comment, as are other comments in this thread.
>>> If a native cook adds a personal touch to such a recipe, does he/she
>>> have the right to call it by the original name? When does a recipe's
>>> ingredients become codified?
>>>
>>
>>
>> In starting this thread, I was trying to find out what an ethnic dish is
> b> supposed to be like -- and really surprised to find no garlic,
marjoram,
>> bayleaf, or caraway seeds.
>>
>> If I don't like it, I'll reseason my portion at the table. When I make
>> it again, I probably won't call it anything :-) so it won't matter if I
>> *******ize it.
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> I just made a batch and served it over wide egg noodles (with just a
> little butter and parsley flakes tossed in the noodles). I think it
> would also be good with white rice. I added a pinch of cayenne to my
> plate and pretended that I had used a mixture of sweet and half-sharp
> paprika. It didn't need any garlic ;-)
>
>
> Chicken Paprikash
>
> 1 pound boneless skinless chicken thighs
> 2 (maybe 3) Tbsp bacon grease
> 2 Tbsp sweet paprika (Hungarian, do not use Californian)
> 1 medium onion, chopped
> 1 medium green bell pepper, large dice
> 1 (14.5 ounce) can peeled tomatoes in juice
> 1/2 cup sour cream
> salt and pepper to taste
>
> Cut chicken into large bite-sized pieces. Heat bacon grease in a large
> skillet. Add chicken, then sprinkle with 1 Tbsp of the paprika. Cook
> chicken over medium-high heat until lightly browned. Add onions and
> continue cooking until onions are softened, several minutes.
>
> Add remaining 1 Tbsp paprika and the diced bell pepper. Cook until bell
> pepper starts to wilt and the paprika is incorporated into the juice.
> Add canned tomatoes with their juice, bring to a boil, and reduce to
> simmer. Cook until sauce is slightly thickened, breaking up tomatoes
> with a spoon, about 5 minutes.
>
> Remove skillet from heat; stir in sour cream. Season with salt and
> pepper, and serve over egg noodles or dumplings.
>

Sounds good, Bob, in fact rather like the way I make it. However, I am
"forced" to add at least 1 clove of garlic to satisfy my "garlic fetish".
:-) I also add more paprika just because I like it strongly flavored. I
usually served it over spaetzle. I know, I know, that makes it
inauthentic. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 09(IX)/08(VIII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
9wks 5hrs 51mins
*******************************************
Ooooooeee! They sure serve up them
four-year-olds good, don't they?
*******************************************

On Sep 8, 5:54 pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> > A strange confusion I find here in the US is about Chop Suey. I belive
> > that the origins of Chop Suey served in Chinese restaurants in the US is
> > really a dish invented by the Chinese in America. While its ingredients
> > can vary somewhat from restaurant to restaurant, it generally contains
> > ingredients common to Chinese cooking and would be recognizable almost
> > anywhere as Chop Suey.
>
> New dishes are sometimes invented in diaspora and often can be
> considered authentic for that diaspora. However, there some dishes that
> are mostly served to round-eyes and other gwai-los and largerly avoided
> by the diaspora itself. I wonder if this is the case with chop suey
> and, if so, whether this dish can be considered really Chinese.
>
> Victor


I dunno, I've always considered Chop Suey, like pizza,
quintessentillay (is that even close to spelled right?) USAican
cuisine

Just talking out of my hat here, but doesn't the classic pork lips,
vulvas and sweepings hot dog at the 4th of July picnic have a better
lineage to the world of wursts than either of these "etnic" foods has
to the old country.

Not, as they say, that there is anything wrong with that.

b

On Mon 08 Sep 2008 08:54:09p, bulka told us...

> On Sep 8, 5:54 pm, (Victor Sack) wrote:
>> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>> > A strange confusion I find here in the US is about Chop Suey. I
belive
>> > that the origins of Chop Suey served in Chinese restaurants in the US
is
>> > really a dish invented by the Chinese in America. While its
ingredients
>> > can vary somewhat from restaurant to restaurant, it generally contains
>> > ingredients common to Chinese cooking and would be recognizable almost
>> > anywhere as Chop Suey.
>>
>> New dishes are sometimes invented in diaspora and often can be
>> considered authentic for that diaspora. However, there some dishes that
>> are mostly served to round-eyes and other gwai-los and largerly avoided
>> by the diaspora itself. I wonder if this is the case with chop suey
>> and, if so, whether this dish can be considered really Chinese.
>>
>> Victor
>
>
> I dunno, I've always considered Chop Suey, like pizza,
> quintessentillay (is that even close to spelled right?) USAican
> cuisine

Yes, invented by Chinese cooks in 1800s America. Unlike "American Chop
Suey" which is more like Chili-Mac and other casseroles of that ilk.

> Just talking out of my hat here, but doesn't the classic pork lips,
> vulvas and sweepings hot dog at the 4th of July picnic have a better
> lineage to the world of wursts than either of these "etnic" foods has
> to the old country.

Probably.

> Not, as they say, that there is anything wrong with that.
>
> b
>



--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 09(IX)/08(VIII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
9wks 2hrs 55mins
*******************************************
Do not merely believe in miracles,
rely on them.
*******************************************

zxcvbob > wrote:

> Chicken Paprikash
>
> 1 pound boneless skinless chicken thighs
> 2 (maybe 3) Tbsp bacon grease
> 2 Tbsp sweet paprika (Hungarian, do not use Californian)
> 1 medium onion, chopped
> 1 medium green bell pepper, large dice
> 1 (14.5 ounce) can peeled tomatoes in juice
> 1/2 cup sour cream
> salt and pepper to taste
>
> Cut chicken into large bite-sized pieces. Heat bacon grease in a large
> skillet. Add chicken, then sprinkle with 1 Tbsp of the paprika. Cook
> chicken over medium-high heat until lightly browned. Add onions and
> continue cooking until onions are softened, several minutes.
>
> Add remaining 1 Tbsp paprika and the diced bell pepper. Cook until bell
> pepper starts to wilt and the paprika is incorporated into the juice.
> Add canned tomatoes with their juice, bring to a boil, and reduce to
> simmer. Cook until sauce is slightly thickened, breaking up tomatoes
> with a spoon, about 5 minutes.
>
> Remove skillet from heat; stir in sour cream. Season with salt and
> pepper, and serve over egg noodles or dumplings.

To me, it looks like you have made what amounts to a conventional stew,
just with all the right paprikás ingredients. The method is lacking.
So, considering you were nominally making paprikás and not just any
stew, I would say that you have made it way too liquid, mainly owing to
all those canned tomatoes in juice and a very short time of cooking them
at too low heat. At the basic level, I'd reduce the amount of tomatoes,
add them at the same time as the green pepper and would cook it all down
until not all that much sauce is left. Also, do not reduce heat to
simmer at any point. Pay attention to the dish and, if the liquid keeps
getting on the low side, just keep adding some more, as needed, but not
too much. Adding cream would then make the sauce liquid enough again in
this paricular case.

Back to the method. Here are some very well written instructions for
making pörkölt which have been posted by Ian Hoare, on alt.food.asian,
of all places. They apply equally well to making paprikás and will
illustrate what I wrote above better than anything. I have always found
them most illuminating and have reposted them several times over the
years. Here they are again. There is just one thing Ian forgets to
mention, namely that the amount of onions used for paprikás should
generally be lower than that for pörkölt, as (sour) cream will replace
all that extra onion juice.

Victor


_________________________Ian Hoare_______________________________
OK, two recipes, one originally written in hungarian, and brought out in
an "english" version. Not too clear, unless you know how to make it.
Then I've put my detailed description. Aimed at a fairly competent cook
who has no idea what the dish is or how to make it, (which isn't
surprising for such an obscure cuisine).

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.06

Title: Meat Porkolt
Categories: Main dish, Meats, Hungarian, Casseroles
Yield: 4 servings

3 lb Meat**
Lard ***
6 Onions
Salt
1 tb Paprika
3 Tomatoes -=OR=-
3 tb Tomato puree
2 Green paprika

NB ** Veal, Pork, Suckling Pig, Chicken, Goose, Duck, Turkey, Hare or
Venison can all be used with equally good results.

*** The amount of lard used varies according to whether the meat is
fat or lean.

Porkolt literally means "scorched" or "singed". Generally speaking all
porkolts are made in the same way.

Fry the onions a golden-brown in boiling hot lard, add paprika and
the meat cut into squares. Salt to taste and stew slowly. When the
meat is half done add 2 or 3 tomatoes (in winter tomato puree) and
sliced green paprikas, and let it stew on till the meat is tender.
As a rule galushka or tarhonya is served with it, but potatoes or
rice will do as well. Cucumbers pickled with toast or lettuce salad
is usually handed round with porkolt.

MMMMM

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.06

Title: Making porkolts
Categories: Main dish, Meats, Hungarian, Information
Yield: 1 Info

MMMMM--------------------GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS-------------------------

Porkolt is one of the most characteristic cooking techniques in
Hungary and is almost unique to that country. The word means
"scorched" or "singed", and is a clue to the technique used.

Traditionally, porkolts were always cooked in lard, from a female
pig, and without having been purified. Nowadays, one often uses oil,
but it is better to get hold of pork back fat and to cut it into
small pieces about 1 or 2 mm thick and about 1cm square, and render
that down by heating very gently (it should never smoke or burn) and
cooking until it has given off its fat, and the squares are a good
mid brown in colour. You will notice that at first the fat is opaque,
and as it heats, it becomes translucent. As cooking proceeds the fat
seeps out and the squres become opaque again, just before beginning
to change colour. Watch carefully at this stage as they can easily
burn.

The onions used should be chopped fairly coarsely, I'd estimate about
6-8mm square or perhaps a bit less. When the fat has been rendered,
but without removing the scratchings, add the chopped onion (and
crushed garlic if used) and over high heat, stir around for a minute
or two. You don't want to cook the onions, but heat them through. Now
reduce heat to very low, clap a lid on and cook about 10 mins,
stirring two or three times, to prevent the onions sticking. You want
them to render their juices, NOT take any colour at this stage.

One the onions have given out their juice and become a little tender,
increase heat again, and cook over moderately high heat stirring more
or less regularly, until they become transparent and then begin to
change colour and become a pale gold.

At this stage, there are two schools of thought. You can either add
the meat, sear lightly and then add paprika, salt & pepper and a
touch of water, or you can add the paprika, stir a second or two and
THEN add the meat. The important point is that the meat should be in
quite large pieces of about 2 to 3 cms along the sides, larger for
poultry, and that the paprika is not burnt. I find that searing the
meat first makes it harder to burn the paprika and therefore I
incline to that method.

Therefore, raise heat to high, and add the meat, stirring continuously
over high heat. The meat will sizzle and stiffen. As soon as this has
happened, lower heat slightly, add the paprika, which for a porkolt,
should be the "noble-sweet" variety, and obviously from Hungary. All
paprikas taste different and have their own uses, and noble-sweet
(edesnemes) is the one for Porkolt, Paprikas and Gulyas. So add the
paprika, any other spices and herbs and stir all together over
moderate to low heat. Cover the pan almost completely. After a few
minutes, the meat and onions will give out their juices and will
start the cooking process.

This cooking process is what sets porkolts apart from all other
stewing methods. It takes place at a faster rate than normal european
stews, where the heat is kept at an absolute minimum and the meat
eventually stews to tenderness. In a porkolt, the heat is kept high
enough for the juices to tend to evaporate. Obviously, without
supervision, the stew would then burn, so porkolts always need
careful watching, and every time the stew just _begins_ to fry, with
the fat separating, you add a little water or stock or even wine.
Stir it in in and let the cooking continue. A porkolt cooking
correctly sings in the pan in a particular way that once heard is
never forgotten. It's not quite the tone of frying meat, but
"wetter". Try to stay near the pan to achieve this particular note as
the first reduction of juices takes place, and then maybe turn the
heat down a touch, add a tablespoon or two of liquid and let the
cooking continue.

In the case of quick cooking meats, such as chicken or lamb or pork,
this dry-stewing takes place quite quickly and the meat is cooked
enough to proceed to the next stage within about 20 - 30 mins. For
beef and mutton it can take much longer of course.

In any case, when the meat is no longer hard, but beginning to
tenderise, you can add the tomato/green peppers or lecso, depending
on the time of year. At this stage, you can turn down the heat again
and cook at a touch faster than a simmer. It does no harm for the
liquid to reduce, but it's not essential. When the meat is fully
tender, the dish is finished. Correct the seasoning and serve.

If making a paprikas, you would have made in the meantime a mixture of
equal parts of creme fraiche and heavy cream if both are available to
you, if not, a mixture of yoghurt and heavy cream in the proportion
of 1 part yoghurt to 3 parts cream. Stir a little flour into this,
and 10 minutes before serving the paprikas, stir this mixture into
the dish, bring to the boil and simmer 10 minutes or so. Season and
serve.

Ian Hoare c/o

MMMMM
_________________________Ian Hoare_______________________________

[top posting because I don't want to trim anything]

Thanks Victor,
I did cook it faster than what my recipe description looks like, but
that was by accident rather than design. The sauce was very thick when
I was all done, and there wasn't much sauce. There was no significant
color (browning) except for the paprika. Also, my pan was just a little
too small. (I'll use the big nonstick wok next time.) It was
definitely not like a stew, but maybe it wasn't like a paprikás either
-- somewhere in between. And you were right about it being balanced and
flavorful in spite of having no spices except for the paprika.

The chicken threw off a *lot* of moisture (cursed "enhanced" meats that
we get here.) Next time I will cook the onions first so they can
caramelize, then add the meat and cook it all over very high heat so it
is on the verge of burning the whole time, and I'll drain the tomatoes
before adding.

Would it be heretical to serve over rice instead of egg noodles or potatoes?

Best regards,
Bob


Victor Sack wrote:
> zxcvbob > wrote:
>
>> Chicken Paprikash
>>
>> 1 pound boneless skinless chicken thighs
>> 2 (maybe 3) Tbsp bacon grease
>> 2 Tbsp sweet paprika (Hungarian, do not use Californian)
>> 1 medium onion, chopped
>> 1 medium green bell pepper, large dice
>> 1 (14.5 ounce) can peeled tomatoes in juice
>> 1/2 cup sour cream
>> salt and pepper to taste
>>
>> Cut chicken into large bite-sized pieces. Heat bacon grease in a large
>> skillet. Add chicken, then sprinkle with 1 Tbsp of the paprika. Cook
>> chicken over medium-high heat until lightly browned. Add onions and
>> continue cooking until onions are softened, several minutes.
>>
>> Add remaining 1 Tbsp paprika and the diced bell pepper. Cook until bell
>> pepper starts to wilt and the paprika is incorporated into the juice.
>> Add canned tomatoes with their juice, bring to a boil, and reduce to
>> simmer. Cook until sauce is slightly thickened, breaking up tomatoes
>> with a spoon, about 5 minutes.
>>
>> Remove skillet from heat; stir in sour cream. Season with salt and
>> pepper, and serve over egg noodles or dumplings.
>
> To me, it looks like you have made what amounts to a conventional stew,
> just with all the right paprikás ingredients. The method is lacking.
> So, considering you were nominally making paprikás and not just any
> stew, I would say that you have made it way too liquid, mainly owing to
> all those canned tomatoes in juice and a very short time of cooking them
> at too low heat. At the basic level, I'd reduce the amount of tomatoes,
> add them at the same time as the green pepper and would cook it all down
> until not all that much sauce is left. Also, do not reduce heat to
> simmer at any point. Pay attention to the dish and, if the liquid keeps
> getting on the low side, just keep adding some more, as needed, but not
> too much. Adding cream would then make the sauce liquid enough again in
> this paricular case.
>
> Back to the method. Here are some very well written instructions for
> making pörkölt which have been posted by Ian Hoare, on alt.food.asian,
> of all places. They apply equally well to making paprikás and will
> illustrate what I wrote above better than anything. I have always found
> them most illuminating and have reposted them several times over the
> years. Here they are again. There is just one thing Ian forgets to
> mention, namely that the amount of onions used for paprikás should
> generally be lower than that for pörkölt, as (sour) cream will replace
> all that extra onion juice.
>
> Victor
>
>
> _________________________Ian Hoare_______________________________
> OK, two recipes, one originally written in hungarian, and brought out in
> an "english" version. Not too clear, unless you know how to make it.
> Then I've put my detailed description. Aimed at a fairly competent cook
> who has no idea what the dish is or how to make it, (which isn't
> surprising for such an obscure cuisine).
>
> MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.06
>
> Title: Meat Porkolt
> Categories: Main dish, Meats, Hungarian, Casseroles
> Yield: 4 servings
>
> 3 lb Meat**
> Lard ***
> 6 Onions
> Salt
> 1 tb Paprika
> 3 Tomatoes -=OR=-
> 3 tb Tomato puree
> 2 Green paprika
>
> NB ** Veal, Pork, Suckling Pig, Chicken, Goose, Duck, Turkey, Hare or
> Venison can all be used with equally good results.
>
> *** The amount of lard used varies according to whether the meat is
> fat or lean.
>
> Porkolt literally means "scorched" or "singed". Generally speaking all
> porkolts are made in the same way.
>
> Fry the onions a golden-brown in boiling hot lard, add paprika and
> the meat cut into squares. Salt to taste and stew slowly. When the
> meat is half done add 2 or 3 tomatoes (in winter tomato puree) and
> sliced green paprikas, and let it stew on till the meat is tender.
> As a rule galushka or tarhonya is served with it, but potatoes or
> rice will do as well. Cucumbers pickled with toast or lettuce salad
> is usually handed round with porkolt.
>
> MMMMM
>
> MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.06
>
> Title: Making porkolts
> Categories: Main dish, Meats, Hungarian, Information
> Yield: 1 Info
>
> MMMMM--------------------GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS-------------------------
>
> Porkolt is one of the most characteristic cooking techniques in
> Hungary and is almost unique to that country. The word means
> "scorched" or "singed", and is a clue to the technique used.
>
> Traditionally, porkolts were always cooked in lard, from a female
> pig, and without having been purified. Nowadays, one often uses oil,
> but it is better to get hold of pork back fat and to cut it into
> small pieces about 1 or 2 mm thick and about 1cm square, and render
> that down by heating very gently (it should never smoke or burn) and
> cooking until it has given off its fat, and the squares are a good
> mid brown in colour. You will notice that at first the fat is opaque,
> and as it heats, it becomes translucent. As cooking proceeds the fat
> seeps out and the squres become opaque again, just before beginning
> to change colour. Watch carefully at this stage as they can easily
> burn.
>
> The onions used should be chopped fairly coarsely, I'd estimate about
> 6-8mm square or perhaps a bit less. When the fat has been rendered,
> but without removing the scratchings, add the chopped onion (and
> crushed garlic if used) and over high heat, stir around for a minute
> or two. You don't want to cook the onions, but heat them through. Now
> reduce heat to very low, clap a lid on and cook about 10 mins,
> stirring two or three times, to prevent the onions sticking. You want
> them to render their juices, NOT take any colour at this stage.
>
> One the onions have given out their juice and become a little tender,
> increase heat again, and cook over moderately high heat stirring more
> or less regularly, until they become transparent and then begin to
> change colour and become a pale gold.
>
> At this stage, there are two schools of thought. You can either add
> the meat, sear lightly and then add paprika, salt & pepper and a
> touch of water, or you can add the paprika, stir a second or two and
> THEN add the meat. The important point is that the meat should be in
> quite large pieces of about 2 to 3 cms along the sides, larger for
> poultry, and that the paprika is not burnt. I find that searing the
> meat first makes it harder to burn the paprika and therefore I
> incline to that method.
>
> Therefore, raise heat to high, and add the meat, stirring continuously
> over high heat. The meat will sizzle and stiffen. As soon as this has
> happened, lower heat slightly, add the paprika, which for a porkolt,
> should be the "noble-sweet" variety, and obviously from Hungary. All
> paprikas taste different and have their own uses, and noble-sweet
> (edesnemes) is the one for Porkolt, Paprikas and Gulyas. So add the
> paprika, any other spices and herbs and stir all together over
> moderate to low heat. Cover the pan almost completely. After a few
> minutes, the meat and onions will give out their juices and will
> start the cooking process.
>
> This cooking process is what sets porkolts apart from all other
> stewing methods. It takes place at a faster rate than normal european
> stews, where the heat is kept at an absolute minimum and the meat
> eventually stews to tenderness. In a porkolt, the heat is kept high
> enough for the juices to tend to evaporate. Obviously, without
> supervision, the stew would then burn, so porkolts always need
> careful watching, and every time the stew just _begins_ to fry, with
> the fat separating, you add a little water or stock or even wine.
> Stir it in in and let the cooking continue. A porkolt cooking
> correctly sings in the pan in a particular way that once heard is
> never forgotten. It's not quite the tone of frying meat, but
> "wetter". Try to stay near the pan to achieve this particular note as
> the first reduction of juices takes place, and then maybe turn the
> heat down a touch, add a tablespoon or two of liquid and let the
> cooking continue.
>
> In the case of quick cooking meats, such as chicken or lamb or pork,
> this dry-stewing takes place quite quickly and the meat is cooked
> enough to proceed to the next stage within about 20 - 30 mins. For
> beef and mutton it can take much longer of course.
>
> In any case, when the meat is no longer hard, but beginning to
> tenderise, you can add the tomato/green peppers or lecso, depending
> on the time of year. At this stage, you can turn down the heat again
> and cook at a touch faster than a simmer. It does no harm for the
> liquid to reduce, but it's not essential. When the meat is fully
> tender, the dish is finished. Correct the seasoning and serve.
>
> If making a paprikas, you would have made in the meantime a mixture of
> equal parts of creme fraiche and heavy cream if both are available to
> you, if not, a mixture of yoghurt and heavy cream in the proportion
> of 1 part yoghurt to 3 parts cream. Stir a little flour into this,
> and 10 minutes before serving the paprikas, stir this mixture into
> the dish, bring to the boil and simmer 10 minutes or so. Season and
> serve.
>
> Ian Hoare c/o
>
> MMMMM
> _________________________Ian Hoare_______________________________
>

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Mon 08 Sep 2008 06:05:52a, Goomba told us...
>
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>> Amen to that. Take the case I made in the original thread - I have two
>>> relatives by marriage (my late mother-in-law and the still living
>>> husband of my aunt) that are native Hungarian born, both from Budapest.
>>> They make/made their paprikash different - one uses sour cream, the
>>> other doesn't. Does that make either of them unauthentic? I think not;
>>> it's a cook's variation, aka artistic license.
>> Well.. one has to draw the line on the cream of anything soup based dish
>> being caled paprikash, right?
>>
>
> Was there a mention of "cream of 'anything' soup" mentioned? I didn't see
> it. The inclusion of sour cream is certainly authentic to paprikas.
>
I was attempting to be a bit sarcastic about"authenticity" and how far
from authentic some ideas become.
I should have included a tongue in cheek emoticon, huh?

On Tue 09 Sep 2008 12:45:50a, Goomba told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Mon 08 Sep 2008 06:05:52a, Goomba told us...
>>
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amen to that. Take the case I made in the original thread - I have
>>>> two relatives by marriage (my late mother-in-law and the still living
>>>> husband of my aunt) that are native Hungarian born, both from
>>>> Budapest. They make/made their paprikash different - one uses sour
>>>> cream, the other doesn't. Does that make either of them unauthentic?
>>>> I think not; it's a cook's variation, aka artistic license.
>>> Well.. one has to draw the line on the cream of anything soup based
>>> dish being caled paprikash, right?
>>>
>>
>> Was there a mention of "cream of 'anything' soup" mentioned? I didn't
>> see it. The inclusion of sour cream is certainly authentic to
>> paprikas.
>>
> I was attempting to be a bit sarcastic about"authenticity" and how far
> from authentic some ideas become.
> I should have included a tongue in cheek emoticon, huh?
>

Well, you're not off the path with this. I've seen a chicken paprikash
recipe that called Campbell's Tomato Soup. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Tuesday, 09(IX)/09(IX)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
8wks 6dys 19hrs 20mins
*******************************************
How much can I get away with and still
go to heaven?
*******************************************

In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> Would it be heretical to serve over rice instead of egg noodles or potatoes?
>
> Best regards,
> Bob

Yes. Noodles or Nothing!!
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, and here's the link to my appearance
on "A Prairie Home Companion," <http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/
programs/2008/08/30/>

zxcvbob > wrote:

> Would it be heretical to serve over rice instead of egg noodles or potatoes?

The traditional way would be to serve it with galuska or nokkedli
(spätzle-like dumplings), with csipetke (which are simpler dumplings,
being just dough squares or pieces of dough just pinched off with
fingers), or with tarhonya (little dried dough balls, egg barley).
However Gundel does say that pörkölt (and hence paprikás) is also good
with potatoes or rice.

Victor