"Gregory Morrow" > fnord
m:

>
> Janet Wilder wrote:
>
>> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab
community
>> was celebrating by dancing in the streets. To this day, I cannot
imagine
>> anyone living in this country rejoicing at such death and
destruction.
>>
>
>
> They're *Arabs*, fer chrissakes, what on earth do you *expect*...???
>
>

Seriously, Greg; **** you.

I live in an area with one of the largest concentrations of Arabs
outside of the middle east, and I have never met a one that was not
happy to be in this country or proud to be a citizen. At the time of the
attacks, my direct supervisor was from Lebanon, and she was scared
shitless that she and her family were now targets for people's
misdirected vengeance for what had happened. You can't punish all of the
people from one region of the world because of the actions of a few.

In addition, "Arab" does not mean "adherent to Islam". It refers to
people from a particular area of the world.

I grew up in a Jewish home and went to a zionist school K-12. If I can
manage to get past this petty bigotry, so can you. I suppose I could
bring up the fact that I have dated a man who was Muslim, but he was not
an Arab, he was from Senegal, so the point would be moot in this context


Plus, they run the some of the only markets around here where I can buy
goat!

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Janet Wilder wrote:

> Boron Elgar wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:03:22 -0500, Janet Wilder
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab community
> >> was celebrating by dancing in the streets.
> >
> > Your mother was misinformed. This never happened and was refuted Arab
> > community leaders, by the mayor, the Paterson police chief and
> > Passaic county sheriff. Please do not contribute to discrimination
> > against Arabs by spreading such a story.
>
> My mother and several of her neighbors were right there and saw it
> personally. They would not lie. They had no reason to lie.
>
> We have a relative with the NYC news media and when I asked him about
> this about face of the mayor, etc. he told me that the State and Federal
> government had gone to all the media and told them to withhold the story
> from publication because it would create "open season" on Arabs all over
> the US, some of whom were not guilty of such evil behavior.
>
> Ask me if I care if people who danced in the streets when Americans died
> are deserving of my concern about "discrimination".
>
> > On the other hand, there was some very interesting , if harrowing
> > backlash right nearby. I live one town over from Paterson, where the
> > next night someone shot out the windows of a local business that was
> > owned by an Indonesian Muslim. This I know to be true, because I
> > stopped by the store, some of its front glass boarded over, and a
> > place I had never been in before, to speak to the owner and his
> > family about the incident.
>
>
> I guess that's why the media was ordered to hush-hush the Paterson
business.
>
> BTW, a few days after 9/11 I met some young people who were attending
> Penn State and lived in the dorms. They talked about the Arab students
> in their dorm building partying that night.
>
> I'm sure not all Arabs were celebrating that night, but there were those
> who did and I know from the first hand experience of several people whom
> I trust.


Yup, there was a media "lockdown" on any "positive" reaction in US
Arab/Muzlim communities to the events surrounding 9/11...such are the evils
of political correctness...

IIRC Boron is Jewish - she should take a gander at what is said about Jews -
or in fact *any* non - muzlims - at any mosque in her area...what they spew
would make a Julius Streicher orgasm in gleeful delight.


--
Best
Greg

Janet Wilder > fnord
:

> Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:03:22 -0500, Janet Wilder
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab
>>> community was celebrating by dancing in the streets.
>>
>> Your mother was misinformed. This never happened and was refuted Arab
>> community leaders, by the mayor, the Paterson police chief and
>> Passaic county sheriff. Please do not contribute to discrimination
>> against Arabs by spreading such a story.
>
> My mother and several of her neighbors were right there and saw it
> personally. They would not lie. They had no reason to lie.
>

I have no doubt that there were some individuals who may have done such
things. I've been witness to reactionist idiots of many stripes, colors,
ethicities and religions. You can't blame *all* Arab-Americans for the
actions of some of those of the same ethnic background.


> We have a relative with the NYC news media and when I asked him about
> this about face of the mayor, etc. he told me that the State and
> Federal government had gone to all the media and told them to withhold
> the story from publication because it would create "open season" on
> Arabs all over the US, some of whom were not guilty of such evil
> behavior.
>

*some of whom*? oh come on. We don't need to be like that. The vast
majority of Arabs and Muslims in this country are law-abiding people.
Decent people. There are *some* useless ****s in *every* ethnic
community in America. (Including the dominant one).


> Ask me if I care if people who danced in the streets when Americans
> died are deserving of my concern about "discrimination".
>

Those particular individuals are not. People who are decent average
folks do deserve that concern.

>> On the other hand, there was some very interesting , if harrowing
>> backlash right nearby. I live one town over from Paterson, where the
>> next night someone shot out the windows of a local business that was
>> owned by an Indonesian Muslim. This I know to be true, because I
>> stopped by the store, some of its front glass boarded over, and a
>> place I had never been in before, to speak to the owner and his
>> family about the incident.
>
>
> I guess that's why the media was ordered to hush-hush the Paterson
> business.
>
> BTW, a few days after 9/11 I met some young people who were attending
> Penn State and lived in the dorms. They talked about the Arab students
> in their dorm building partying that night.
>
> I'm sure not all Arabs were celebrating that night, but there were
> those who did and I know from the first hand experience of several
> people whom I trust.

Again, you say this as if the majority of the Arab community was
partying on 9/11, and I can't imagine that that is the case. Some,
perhaps, but not most or all, and to imply such is wrong.


--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Janet Wilder wrote:

<snip>

> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab community
> was celebrating by dancing in the streets. To this day, I cannot imagine
> anyone living in this country rejoicing at such death and destruction.

I can't imagine it either. There were news reports of it happening in
other countries, but I heard nothing about it happening here. Your
mother's mileage may vary, but it's much more likely bigotry and mob
mentality found their way out and have stayed out. I don't believe that
anyone was dancing in the streets.

<and especially not that close to ground zero>

Dimitri wrote:
> I'll bet you remember what you were doing 7 years ago today.
>
> Me, I had flown in to Newark airport the night before with a business
> associate. Flying in to the airport I had pointed out the twin towers
> which were just above the cloud cover. and was telling her about the
> Windows to the World restaurant on the top floor.
>
> I had turned on the Today show in my room while the speculation was
> going on as to what type of plane had hit the first tower not
> understanding the situation as it was unfolding.
>
> We were staying at the Radisson in Paramus New Jersey and had arranged
> to meet for Breakfast in the morning.
>
> As I walked through the Bar to get to the restaurant there was a giant
> screen TV. Several men were standing around discussing the event. At
> the moment I looked at the giant screen, much to the horror of everyone
> standing there, the second plane hit. A man said "Holy F*** We're being
> attacked".
>
> As they say the rest is history.
>
> And you?
>
> Dimitri
>
> I hope we never forget.

I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
"civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US. That they
would gleefully murder almost three thousand people of all nationalities
and cultures simply because they happened to be in a large building in
America - and for what? Some captured terrorists claimed it to be
retaliation for Pres. Clinton's cruise-missile assault on terrorist
training camps in Afghanistan and the Sudan earlier, which in turn were
said to be in retaliation for several terrorist attacks on US
Embassies... Sounds almost reasonable for a madman's excuse, until you
remember that the World Trade Center was not a singularly "American"
target. A lot of those who died there that morning were Islamic Arabs.
That is the difference between a soldier and a terrorist. Whatever his
cause, for good or evil, the difference is whether he fights against
other soldiers, or he deliberately targets and kills innocent civilians.

I made it through that day and the days after, like a robot, doing my
job and getting by as best I could. It wasn't until I heard the first
airplane take off from a small local airfield, and watched that little
turbo-prop twin climbing like a homesick angel... That I finally fell to
my knees and cried.

"It's over." I thought, And I would give all that I am and all that I
have to prevent it happening again.

"none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote
> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
> fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.

You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
World," do you?

cybercat wrote:
> "none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote
>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
>> fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>
> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
> World," do you?
>
>
Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:03:17 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>In real time, it was much earlier in the morning here in Phoenix.

It was even earlier here in San Francisco. My alarm was getting ready
to go off, I was half awake and the phone rang. It was my next door
neighbor (shouting and in tears) telling us to turn on the TV to ANY
station. To this day, I don't know if I actually watched the first
tower hit in real time... but I do know I watched the second tower in
real time.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

none replied to cyber****:

>>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
>>> fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>>
>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
>> World," do you?
> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?

Cyber**** is deranged. Non sequiturs make sense to it. Cyber**** also likes
to pretend that it has great knowledge of the world, but has never actually
left the USA. It believes that it has innate knowledge of all cultures
granted to it by its immersion in the ghetto.

Bob

"none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote in message
t...
> cybercat wrote:
>> "none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote
>>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
>>> fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>>
>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
>> World," do you?
> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?

It is not irrelevant to suggest that the hatred many nations have for the
United States was not "oh so carefully cultivated" but created by the United
States government over decades. Our arrogance in meddling with the
governments of other nations, particularly smaller, poorer "third world"
countries knew no bounds for many years. We are not blameless in the chain
of events that led to the mass murders in the World Trade Center on
September 11, 2001. Power means responsibility. We should have been keeping
a closer eye on what our own nation was doing prior to the September 11,
2001 massacre.

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> none replied to cyber****:
>
>>>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>>>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before
>>>> been fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>>>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>>>
>>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
>>> World," do you?
>> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?
>
> Cyber**** is deranged. Non sequiturs make sense to it. Cyber**** also
> likes to pretend that it has great knowledge of the world, but has never
> actually left the USA. It believes that it has innate knowledge of all
> cultures granted to it by its immersion in the ghetto.
>

Have another drink, Blob. And get mommy to lay off the knob.

cyber**** released an ignorant opinion from its colon:

>> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?
>
> It is not irrelevant to suggest that the hatred many nations have for the
> United States was not "oh so carefully cultivated" but created by the
> United States government over decades. Our arrogance in meddling with the
> governments of other nations, particularly smaller, poorer "third world"
> countries knew no bounds for many years. We are not blameless in the chain
> of events that led to the mass murders in the World Trade Center on
> September 11, 2001. Power means responsibility. We should have been
> keeping a closer eye on what our own nation was doing prior to the
> September 11, 2001 massacre.

See what I mean about cyber****'s belief that it has knowledge of world
culture? The media reports on people who hold opinions like that because
controversy equals money for them. Cybercat merely parrots the stupidity it
hears on television, in utter ignorance of the actual cultures involved. Pay
no attention to the ignorance blatted forth so wrongly.

The reason there is a culture of hatred toward the USA can be laid at the
feet of someone cyber**** has never heard of: Sayyid Qutb. Read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb to learn about the person who made
"jihad" an everyday word, the person generally considered to be the father
of radical Islam.

Hey, cyber****, here's a quote from the guy you should have known about! Of
American men he wrote: "Jazz is his preferred music, and it is created by
Negroes to satisfy their love of noise and to whet their sexual desires"

Bob

In article >,
"Dimitri" > wrote:

> I'll bet you remember what you were doing 7 years ago today.
>
> Me, I had flown in to Newark airport the night before with a business
> associate. Flying in to the airport I had pointed out the twin towers which
> were just above the cloud cover. and was telling her about the Windows to
> the World restaurant on the top floor.
>
> I had turned on the Today show in my room while the speculation was going on
> as to what type of plane had hit the first tower not understanding the
> situation as it was unfolding.
>
> We were staying at the Radisson in Paramus New Jersey and had arranged to
> meet for Breakfast in the morning.
>
> As I walked through the Bar to get to the restaurant there was a giant
> screen TV. Several men were standing around discussing the event. At the
> moment I looked at the giant screen, much to the horror of everyone standing
> there, the second plane hit. A man said "Holy F*** We're being attacked".
>
> As they say the rest is history.

That Friday, a friend and I flew to Pittsburgh to attend a business
meeting on the 11th. Neither of us had ever been to Pittsburgh before so
we figured we would spend the weekend there seeing what there was to se.

We were getting ready to check out of our hotel room on the morning of
9/11. My friend was in the shower and I was laying on my bed watching
CNN. I tuned in just as the second plane hit. I knew right away it was a
attack. I also heard that all the airports were closed. We had planned
to attend our meeting, then fly home to Philly after lunch.

I called US Airways from the hotel and they confirmed that all flights
were canceled. I called Avis and they let me keep the rental car and
drive it back to PHL without a drop off fee. Our meeting was canceled,
so we ate breakfast at a nearby diner and we drove home via the PA
turnpike. We were supposed to fly home early that afternoon.

Just as we entered the turnpike outside of Pittsburgh, we heard about
the plane going down in PA, only a few miles from us and the other plane
that hit the Pentagon. A friend of mine who was in the Pentagon at that
time has an interesting story about that day. My friend who was driving
us home turned to me and he said, "Stan, I think we just saw the
beginning of World War III." That gave me a chill down my back and it
still remains to be seen if he is right or not.

We stopped along the way at two turnpike rest stops. At both of them,
people had set up portable TVs. People were gathered around the TVs in
the dining area watching the news unfold. There were also electronic
signs just outside of Pittsburgh and at other points along the PA
turnpike warning people to stay away from NYC and the NJ turnpike
outside of NYC.

I have a friend and business associate who was working close to Ground
Zero that day. I tried to call him on his cell phone several times while
I was on my way home. I got no answer. I called my office and I asked
one of my colleagues to try to get in contact with him. She did about an
hour later. She called me to say my friend walked across the Brooklyn
Bridge to someone's home, then he made his way to a ferry and he got
back to northern NJ where he lives.

9/11/2001 is the most memorable day of my life. I am fortunate that I
don't know of anyone who perished in the 9/11 attacks. About two weeks
after 9/11, I went to that area via car and ferry and what I saw was
horrific. I couldn't even get within three blocks of Ground Zero, but
the area for a few blocks north of there was covered in fine white dust.
The streets were all blocked of, and it was surreal.

I have been up to the observation deck of the World Trade Center many
times, and I truly miss those buildings. They were a symbol of American
ingenuity and greatness. They defined Manhattan's skyline. I truly hope
that what replaces them is as good as the buildings the terrorists
destroyed.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:13:21 -0400, Stan Horwitz >
wrote:

>A friend of mine who was in the Pentagon at that
>time has an interesting story about that day.

How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
it? Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
they collapsed)?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

sf wrote:

> How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
> it? Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
> that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
> at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
> they collapsed)?

*groan* Not this again...

Okay, you win: There *was* no "Pentagon plane!" It was a complete HOAX
fabricated by the government because they are EVIL and they wanted to
remodel one wing of the Pentagon without going through normal channels!

Is that what you wanted to hear?


Hey, what do you think about the FEMA prison camps?

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004...amps3sep04.htm

Check out that one in ALASKA! "Estimated capacity of 500,000"? Holy CRAP
that's a lot of "dissidents"!


And how about the way the contrails from aircraft are evidence that the
government is spraying us with mind-control drugs?

http://netowne.com/environmental/contrails/index.htm

Bob

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:59:35 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>sf wrote:
>
>> How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
>> it? Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
>> that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
>> at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
>> they collapsed)?
>
>*groan* Not this again...
>
>Okay, you win: There *was* no "Pentagon plane!" It was a complete HOAX
>fabricated by the government because they are EVIL and they wanted to
>remodel one wing of the Pentagon without going through normal channels!
>
>Is that what you wanted to hear?
>
>
She me a convincing picture.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

sf wrote:

> She me a convincing picture.

http://tinyurl.com/3xgayd

Is THAT convincing enough?

Bob

Dimitri wrote:

> I'll bet you remember what you were doing 7 years ago today.

Here in Italy it was late afternoon and I was at home, reading a book while
mom was ironing some shirts in a nearby room, watching TV. She called me
there when the tv switched to the news of the first crash. Got there,
chatted with her while talking of teh thing, and then saw the second plane
hit the second tower. I felt sad, sick and powerless.
3 hours later I was at a pub with some friends, and one person nearby said
"They deserved it!". Well, that's what I call a communist piece of shit and
will never change my mind. And he wasn't alone. **** them.

> I hope we never forget.

You can bet your life I'll never forget.
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

none <""Mark\"@(none)"> fnord
t:

> cybercat wrote:
>> "none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote
>>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before
>>> been fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>>
>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the
>> Third World," do you?
>>
>>
> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?

Depending on the particular country said person hails from, she has a
very valid point here.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Saerah wrote:

>>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the
>>> Third World," do you?
>>>
>>>
>> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?
>
> Depending on the particular country said person hails from, she has a
> very valid point here.

We're talking about cyber**** here. It infests the USA. There was no point
to be made; cyber**** was just talking down as if it actually had *been* to
a Third-World country, when in fact it has not.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > fnord
:

> Saerah wrote:
>
>>>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the
>>>> Third World," do you?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?
>>
>> Depending on the particular country said person hails from, she has a
>> very valid point here.
>
> We're talking about cyber**** here. It infests the USA. There was no
> point to be made; cyber**** was just talking down as if it actually
> had *been* to a Third-World country, when in fact it has not.
>

No, she was inferring that she has a friend who immigrated from a third
world country.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Saerah wrote:

>>>>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the
>>>>> Third World," do you?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?
>>>
>>> Depending on the particular country said person hails from, she has a
>>> very valid point here.
>>
>> We're talking about cyber**** here. It infests the USA. There was no
>> point to be made; cyber**** was just talking down as if it actually
>> had *been* to a Third-World country, when in fact it has not.
>>
>
> No, she was inferring that she has a friend who immigrated from a third
> world country.


Regardless, cyber**** itself does not hail from any exotic locale and has
shown nothing but ignorance regarding culture of any kind, either foreign or
domestic. So even if it *was* acquainted with someone from the Third World,
it has learned nothing of a cultural nature from that person.

I doubt that cyber**** even has the OPTION of leaving the USA: Many
countries require immunization records to prove you don't have some noxious
disease before they'll allow you entry, and even if cyber**** managed to
procure a shot record, many customs officers would deny entry based on the
smell alone.

Bob

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:45:15 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:03:22 -0500, Janet Wilder
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab community
>>> was celebrating by dancing in the streets.
>>
>> Your mother was misinformed. This never happened and was refuted Arab
>> community leaders, by the mayor, the Paterson police chief and
>> Passaic county sheriff. Please do not contribute to discrimination
>> against Arabs by spreading such a story.
>
>My mother and several of her neighbors were right there and saw it
>personally. They would not lie. They had no reason to lie.

Well, I am truly sorry, but I will still call bullshit. Your mother
lives in the Arabic section of Paterson or did these people just come
dancing down her street out of random joy? Where does she live there?

>We have a relative with the NYC news media and when I asked him about
>this about face of the mayor, etc. he told me that the State and Federal
>government had gone to all the media and told them to withhold the story
>from publication because it would create "open season" on Arabs all over
>the US, some of whom were not guilty of such evil behavior.

More bullshit. This is right out of Fox news and right wing talk
radio. For one thing the rumor was not withheld from publication. It
was published, aired and all over the net, along with hundreds of
other rumors that flew through all the media in the following days.
And then it was spread by fools like you. Local governement officials
and community leaders held a press conference to contradict these
media reports.
>
>Ask me if I care if people who danced in the streets when Americans died
>are deserving of my concern about "discrimination".

I needn't ask you. The idiotic reasoning of bigots doesn't interest
me.
>
>> On the other hand, there was some very interesting , if harrowing
>> backlash right nearby. I live one town over from Paterson, where the
>> next night someone shot out the windows of a local business that was
>> owned by an Indonesian Muslim. This I know to be true, because I
>> stopped by the store, some of its front glass boarded over, and a
>> place I had never been in before, to speak to the owner and his
>> family about the incident.
>
>
>I guess that's why the media was ordered to hush-hush the Paterson business.

Except of course, that too is a lie.
>
>BTW, a few days after 9/11 I met some young people who were attending
>Penn State and lived in the dorms. They talked about the Arab students
>in their dorm building partying that night.

Wow, it seems like every ****ing person you know was a personal
witness or connection to Arab happiness at this incident. Talk about 6
degrees of separation.
>
>I'm sure not all Arabs were celebrating that night, but there were those
>who did and I know from the first hand experience of several people whom
>I trust.

You're an asshole for believing this rot and a bigger one for
spreading it.

Boron

Dimitri wrote:
> I'll bet you remember what you were doing 7 years ago today.
>
> As I walked through the Bar to get to the restaurant there was a giant
> screen TV. Several men were standing around discussing the event. At
> the moment I looked at the giant screen, much to the horror of
> everyone standing there, the second plane hit. A man said "Holy F***
> We're being attacked".
> As they say the rest is history.
>
> And you?
>
> Dimitri
>
> I hope we never forget.


That's almost exactly how it played out. I'd been at the office since
before 7AM central so I didn't know what was going on in the world outside.
When I got a second cup of coffee a co-worker who had just arrived told me
he'd heard on the radio a plane had hit the WTC. We were speculating how on
earth that could have happened when another man rushed past us, "The other
one just got hit. We're at war!"

The first man looked at me, rather dazed, and said, "OMG, that's where our
headquarters is." Holy crap. The parent company, Marsh & McClennan,
occupied the 99th-101st floors of the North tower. When they acquired our
company a fair number of co-workers moved from Memphis to NYC to work in
their offices. We lost 295 colleagues that day, a number of whom I knew
personally. Forget? Not bloody likely.

Jill

"Gregory Morrow" > fnord
m:


> IIRC Boron is Jewish - she should take a gander at what is said about
> Jews - or in fact *any* non - muzlims - at any mosque in her
> area...what they spew would make a Julius Streicher orgasm in gleeful
> delight.
>
>

IIRC, so is Janet. As am I. The fact that there is much anti-Jewish
rhetoric displayed in the Muslim community has little to do with whether
or not people were actually dancing in the streets on 9/11.

Being aware that a group of people may be prejudiced against me and mine
does not give me the right to be a bigot.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Pennyaline wrote:
> Dimitri wrote:
>> I'll bet you remember what you were doing 7 years ago today.
>>
>
>
> I was driving to work when a report about the first plane hitting came
> on the radio. I was pulling into the parking lot when they reported
> the second plane.
>
> Inside, everyone, staff and residents, were transfixed in front of the
> facility's big screen TV, watching endless loops of the Tower strikes
> and new breaking reports of a plane crash at the Pentagon, and early
> mumblings about a crash someplace in Pennsylvania. The biggest news
> was definitely the Towers... then the collapse of the Towers...
>
> I had been here from New York for only two years at the time. My
> employer was very sympathetic, and gave me the rest of the day off.


I recall being very angry at a couple of middle management types who thought
everything should be "business as usual". I worked on a telephonic help
desk but it was internal use software; the general public didn't call us.
And our parent company was headquartered in the North Tower. The I.T. staff
had all the big screens in the conference rooms and training rooms hooked in
via satellite and we were standing, watching. A manager standing behind me
said (in my general direction), "Someone needs to go man those phones." I
said, "Do you really think anyone cares about a software problem right now?"
It was right about then the South tower shuddered, swayed, then fell.

A while later another manager held a weekly conference call with mandatory
participation from the satellite offices around the country as well as of
those of us on the help desk. We couldn't believe she thought anyone would
care. Just after the call got started (with very few participants) the
president of our company announced they'd closed our Pittsburgh office. The
plane that went down flew right past their building on the way down. He
said anyone with real concerns about their own safety or the safety of their
families should feel free to leave the office (nearly everyone with children
did). At least HE recognized it was not going to be "business as usual"
that day.

Jill

Tara wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:30:08 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:
>
>> I hope we never forget.
>
> We teachers are trying to ensure that we don't forget September 11.
> Second and third grade (I teach third grade) hosted our fifth annual
> Hero's Breakfast today. We serve breakfast to our local police,
> fire, and military. Our students have a short program of patriotic
> songs and we present our students' essays on heroes.
>
> My students were about two years old when the attacks occured. It
> won't be long before I have students who weren't even born by 2001.
>
> Tara


I like the idea of the Hero's Breakfast with essays and such as a teaching
tool for the youngsters.

But for three years after 9/11 there was a company-sponsored lunch held in
the parking lot of our Memphis office. That was a different story. They'd
have some company cater picnic-type foods. There were speeches and
colleagues singing patriotic songs but it all felt a little too creepy.
Like dancing on their graves. They stopped doing it after the third
anniversary.

Jill

"Saerah Gray" > wrote
>
> No, she was inferring that she has a friend who immigrated from a third
> world country.
>
I've lived in a college town for over 20 years now. I have many friends from
other countries. Their --often diverse--perspective on world events has been
eye opening.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:16:18 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Thu 11 Sep 2008 04:00:48p, Dimitri told us...
>
>>
>> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>> 5.247...
>>>
>>> When we lived in Ohio, I had spend much time in Manhattan and had been
>>> to the World Trade Center many times, and had eaten at Windows on the
>>> World a fair number of times. For at least the first half hour I
>>> watched the horrifying spectacle in almost total disbelief. I called a
>>> friend who lived and worked in the East Village and we stayed on the
>>> phone for over an
>>> hour, figuratively holding hands. My friend was terrified all of
>>> Manhattan
>>> would be blown to bits.
>>>
>>> The tragedy and horror of this event will stick in my mind forever.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wayne Boatwright
>>
>> Unfortunately Windows had adequate food at best but the several times we
>> were there the service was all but non existent. Horrible!
>>
>> The darkened bar with the several story windows the overlooked the
>> entrance to the harbor was magnificent. A great place on a cold evening
>> to sip a drink and see forever........
>>
>> Dimitri
>>
>>
>
> Yes, you're quite right about the food. I had wanted to take David there
> just for the experience, as he had never been there. There was nothing
> quite like the view.

still, it seems a long way for the saudis to go just to destroy a mediocre
restaurant.

your pal,
blake

Pennyaline wrote:
> Janet Wilder wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab
>> community was celebrating by dancing in the streets. To this day, I
>> cannot imagine anyone living in this country rejoicing at such death
>> and destruction.
>
> I can't imagine it either. There were news reports of it happening in
> other countries, but I heard nothing about it happening here. Your
> mother's mileage may vary, but it's much more likely bigotry and mob
> mentality found their way out and have stayed out. I don't believe that
> anyone was dancing in the streets.
>
> <and especially not that close to ground zero>

I don't care if you believe it or don't believe it. My mother and
several of her neighbors were there and saw what they reported to be
"crowds" of people dancing in the streets. The relative in the news
media confirmed that it happened and that the government banned them
from reporting it.

You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I know.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> none replied to cyber****:
>
> >>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
> >>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before
been
> >>> fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
> >>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
> >>
> >> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
> >> World," do you?
> > Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?
>
> Cyber**** is deranged. Non sequiturs make sense to it. Cyber**** also
likes
> to pretend that it has great knowledge of the world, but has never
actually
> left the USA. It believes that it has innate knowledge of all cultures
> granted to it by its immersion in the ghetto.


LOL...

Bob, I am tempted to use that as my sig line but the cyberDUMB already gave
me a pretty good one...

;-)


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

cyberSTOOL wrote:

> "none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote
> > I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
> > morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
> > fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
> > "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>
> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
> World," do you?


I prefer the term "Turd World"...


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

Bob Terwilliger

> I doubt that cyber**** even has the OPTION of leaving the USA: Many
> countries require immunization records to prove you don't have some
noxious
> disease before they'll allow you entry, and even if cyber**** managed to
> procure a shot record, many customs officers would deny entry based on the
> smell alone.


Well, now it's Friday afternoon and I think I'l fix me a l'il drink...

:-)


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

Stan Horwitz wrote:

> 9/11/2001 is the most memorable day of my life. I am fortunate that I
> don't know of anyone who perished in the 9/11 attacks. About two weeks
> after 9/11, I went to that area via car and ferry and what I saw was
> horrific. I couldn't even get within three blocks of Ground Zero, but
> the area for a few blocks north of there was covered in fine white dust.
> The streets were all blocked of, and it was surreal.


Stan, last night the History Channel had a two - hour special (with NO
comercial interruptions) of raw and unedited footage that amateurs and news
organizations shot that day, everything from local un - aired Channel 7
footage of the NYPD preparing to go in to folks in apartments near Ground
Zero shooting from their windows. None of this had been shown before, it
was pretty powerful stuff, especially, the spread of the dust clouds down
the streets after the tower collapses. It was very "you are there" and
immediate, "cinema verite" you might say...it is well worth watching. One
of the best of the 9/11 docus...


--
Best
Greg

<sf> wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:13:21 -0400, Stan Horwitz >
> wrote:
>
> >A friend of mine who was in the Pentagon at that
> >time has an interesting story about that day.
>
> How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
> it?


Planes "fly low" and hit things ALL the time...have you ever been to an
airport...???


Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
> that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
> at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
> they collapsed)?


Unlike the relatively flimsy WTC the Pentagon is of very sturdy
construction, fortress - like in fact. That's yer answer...


--
Best
Greg

blake murphy wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:16:18 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:


>> Yes, you're quite right about the food. I had wanted to take David
>> there
>> just for the experience, as he had never been there. There was
>> nothing quite like the view.
>
> still, it seems a long way for the saudis to go just to destroy a
> mediocre restaurant.


Two words:

douglas adams

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Google is my Friend (GIMF)

"Bob Terwilliger" wrote:
>
> I doubt that cyber**** even has the OPTION of leaving the USA: Many
> countries require immunization records to prove you don't have some noxious
> disease before they'll allow you entry, and even if cyber**** managed to
> procure a shot record, many customs officers would deny entry based on the
> smell alone.

Hey, you're schtealing my schtick. So how many weeks did Quarantine
keep CyberSchmeck for fumigation?

none wrote:
> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
> fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US. That they
> would gleefully murder almost three thousand people of all nationalities
> and cultures simply because they happened to be in a large building in
> America - and for what?

Which barbarian civilization are you referring to? The attacks were not
sent forth from any nation. They were the product of a group of radicals
whose members, true to radical front form, espouse someone else's
arbitrary rhetoric and invest little of their own intellect into their
actions as members of that group.



> Some captured terrorists claimed it to be
> retaliation for Pres. Clinton's cruise-missile assault on terrorist
> training camps in Afghanistan and the Sudan earlier, which in turn were
> said to be in retaliation for several terrorist attacks on US
> Embassies... Sounds almost reasonable for a madman's excuse, until you
> remember that the World Trade Center was not a singularly "American"
> target. A lot of those who died there that morning were Islamic Arabs.
> That is the difference between a soldier and a terrorist. Whatever his
> cause, for good or evil, the difference is whether he fights against
> other soldiers, or he deliberately targets and kills innocent civilians.

The WTC was a singularly America target. It was an extreme monument to
American idealism under attack by a group targeting American idealism.
The attackers were not a nation's fighting force warring against another
fighting force.

That point was well established long ago, and still so many refuse to
get it. It's astonishing how many people think it is and has always been
about Iraq and Saddam Hussain.



> I made it through that day and the days after, like a robot, doing my
> job and getting by as best I could. It wasn't until I heard the first
> airplane take off from a small local airfield, and watched that little
> turbo-prop twin climbing like a homesick angel... That I finally fell to
> my knees and cried.
>
> "It's over." I thought, And I would give all that I am and all that I
> have to prevent it happening again.

I tend to be dismissive of those who went "on autopilot," "walked around
in a daze" or "a haze" or any other manner of bludgeoned existence in
the days following the attacks, unless of course they had friends and/or
family involved in it or experienced it personally. It was shocking and
certainly effecting when it happened, but it's extreme drama to insist
that the shock carried on as a personal matter for weeks on end when one
was not even a third-hand involved party. Most people as far removed as
that carried on immediately and recovered rapidly. Sometimes, someone
would mention a sudden feeling of guilt when they realized that they had
recovered so well they had forgotten all about it as they went about
their lives very normally.

So understand why I gag when I see "I finally fell to my knees and
cried" and "I would give all that I am and all that I have," especially
this late in the game.

ChattyCathy > fnord news:gaekvt$uk4$1
@registered.motzarella.org:

> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:16:18 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>
>>> Yes, you're quite right about the food. I had wanted to take David
>>> there
>>> just for the experience, as he had never been there. There was
>>> nothing quite like the view.
>>
>> still, it seems a long way for the saudis to go just to destroy a
>> mediocre restaurant.
>
>
> Two words:
>
> douglas adams
>

I guess we should be thankful we don't have Vogons to worry about

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Pennyaline > fnord
:

> It's astonishing how many people think it is and has always
> been about Iraq and Saddam Hussain.
>

I don't personally know anyone who believes this. I am amazed that
anyone is that dense.


Well, maybe more disturbed than amazed.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL