Boron Elgar wrote:

> You're an asshole for believing this rot and a bigger one for
> spreading it.

Sorry the truth has upset you so much. I don't lie. The people who had
the direct experiences did not lie and the relative in the news media
had no reason to lie.

Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
question the veracity of your opinions.

I also wonder why you are so agitated over my little statements. Are you
protecting terrorists or something like that?

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Saerah Gray wrote:
> "Gregory Morrow" > fnord
> m:
>
>
>> IIRC Boron is Jewish - she should take a gander at what is said about
>> Jews - or in fact *any* non - muzlims - at any mosque in her
>> area...what they spew would make a Julius Streicher orgasm in gleeful
>> delight.
>>
>>
>
> IIRC, so is Janet. As am I. The fact that there is much anti-Jewish
> rhetoric displayed in the Muslim community has little to do with whether
> or not people were actually dancing in the streets on 9/11.
>
> Being aware that a group of people may be prejudiced against me and mine
> does not give me the right to be a bigot.
>

I reported what eye witnesses had told me. I'm sure we all know of
things the government has "swept under the rug" over the years.

I don't think being Jewish has anything to do with this. I made my
comment as an American who was upset about people enjoying the freedoms
of our country who rejoiced in the death of their fellow Americans.

That is what upset me the most. IMHO one does not accept the hospitality
and benefits of living in our wonderful country, even with its flaws,
and rejoice when it's been attacked.

The fact that it was only one particular ethnic group that the eye
witnesses I know reported, probably speaks for itself.



--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from Janet Wilder > contains these words:
>
>
>> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab community
>> was celebrating by dancing in the streets. To this day, I cannot imagine
>> anyone living in this country rejoicing at such death and destruction.
>
> How did your mother know what it was she saw them celebrating? How
> could she tell it was not a wedding, or birth, or religious festival?
>
> Janet in Scotland.

My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends who
had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
being shouted in the streets.

I don't think it was a wedding. No one saw a bride and groom or anything
like that.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Janet Wilder > fnord
:

> Saerah Gray wrote:
>> "Gregory Morrow" > fnord
>> m:
>>
>>
>>> IIRC Boron is Jewish - she should take a gander at what is said
>>> about Jews - or in fact *any* non - muzlims - at any mosque in her
>>> area...what they spew would make a Julius Streicher orgasm in
>>> gleeful delight.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> IIRC, so is Janet. As am I. The fact that there is much anti-Jewish
>> rhetoric displayed in the Muslim community has little to do with
>> whether or not people were actually dancing in the streets on 9/11.
>>
>> Being aware that a group of people may be prejudiced against me and
>> mine does not give me the right to be a bigot.
>>
>
> I reported what eye witnesses had told me. I'm sure we all know of
> things the government has "swept under the rug" over the years.
>
> I don't think being Jewish has anything to do with this. I made my
> comment as an American who was upset about people enjoying the
> freedoms of our country who rejoiced in the death of their fellow
> Americans.
>
> That is what upset me the most. IMHO one does not accept the
> hospitality and benefits of living in our wonderful country, even with
> its flaws, and rejoice when it's been attacked.
>
> The fact that it was only one particular ethnic group that the eye
> witnesses I know reported, probably speaks for itself.

That comment shows how bigoted you are. Even *if* what you heard was
true, it's not justification for acting as if every person of Arabic
descent could not be a loyal and grateful resident/citizen.


If what you say is true, independent news sources would have reported
it. The government is shady, but not as all-powerful as some would have
us believe. I wasted a good half hour last night trying to find
conclusive evidence of Arabs dancing on 9/11 in Paterson (or anywhere
else in the US, for that matter). I found *none*.

--
Saerah (maybe I'm just bad at googling?)

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Saerah Gray wrote:

>
> That comment shows how bigoted you are. Even *if* what you heard was
> true, it's not justification for acting as if every person of Arabic
> descent could not be a loyal and grateful resident/citizen.
>
>
> If what you say is true, independent news sources would have reported
> it. The government is shady, but not as all-powerful as some would have
> us believe. I wasted a good half hour last night trying to find
> conclusive evidence of Arabs dancing on 9/11 in Paterson (or anywhere
> else in the US, for that matter). I found *none*.

Eye witness accounts and second hand accounts are not always accurate,
and religious affiliation often trumps national patriotism. I was
working in commercial vehicle enforcement at the time and we had planned
a major motor coach inspection initiative in Niagara Falls for Sept.12
in Niagara Falls. There were very few buses there that day. One of the
few drivers there that day was from NYC and told me about his brother in
law being the guy who plummeted down with some wreckage and survived. I
was touched. I had hear about him on the news. Then it turned out to be
a lie, just like the tale in the media about how the hijackers had all
slipped in the US the night before from Canada.

We all take for granted that all Muslims will side with their fellow
Muslims. We have to accept that most Jews will side with Israel, and
that a lot of Christians will side with their churches on issues over
the constitutional provisions.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:13:10 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:


>We all take for granted that all Muslims will side with their fellow
>Muslims. We have to accept that most Jews will side with Israel, and
>that a lot of Christians will side with their churches on issues over
>the constitutional provisions.
>

Pretty good there...a jaundiced view of three major religions in one
fell swoop.

Boron

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:10:33 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:


>
>My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends who
>had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
>particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
>being shouted in the streets.

What an interesting outing to undertake on 9-11.

I call bullshit again.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:30:33 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:13:10 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:
>
>
>>We all take for granted that all Muslims will side with their fellow
>>Muslims. We have to accept that most Jews will side with Israel, and
>>that a lot of Christians will side with their churches on issues over
>>the constitutional provisions.
>>
>
>Pretty good there...a jaundiced view of three major religions in one
>fell swoop.

Since no religion (major or otherwise) makes any sense I think he was
spot on.

Lou

Janet Wilder wrote:
> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
> question the veracity of your opinions.

But you weren't privy to firsthand information. Someone else told you
something about something. That's already secondhand information. If you
had seen it for yourself, you would then have been privy to firsthand
information.

Janet Wilder wrote:
> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends who
> had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
> particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
> being shouted in the streets.

I was in the streets of Salt Lake City and heard many references to the
WTC being shouted in the streets, too. I couldn't pinpoint if it was
Muslims doing the shouting, but Salt Lake DOES have a Muslim population.
It must have been them celebrating, right?

Janet Wilder > fnord news:48caf48a$0$12371
:

> Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> You're an asshole for believing this rot and a bigger one for
>> spreading it.
>
> Sorry the truth has upset you so much. I don't lie. The people who had
> the direct experiences did not lie and the relative in the news media
> had no reason to lie.
>

Then why is it that no independent news sources reported such a thing?

> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
> question the veracity of your opinions.
>
> I also wonder why you are so agitated over my little statements. Are
you
> protecting terrorists or something like that?
>

Because if you use *any* person's ethnicity or religion of origin as an
excuse to take away their rights, it hurts all of us. It's WRONG. Your
mother was mistaken, and your "relative in the news media" was *lying to
you*. Why the hell would your mother go on an "outing" in an Arab
neighborhood on 9/11? Was she actually colluding with the terrorists or
something?

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Pennyaline > fnord news:48cb15b9$0$89875
:

> Janet Wilder wrote:
>> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
>> question the veracity of your opinions.
>
> But you weren't privy to firsthand information. Someone else told you
> something about something. That's already secondhand information. If
you
> had seen it for yourself, you would then have been privy to firsthand
> information.
>

And I imagine, at this late date, that if someone had seen such a thing
besides her mother, that it would have been reported on. Someone would
have taken pictures or video.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Pennyaline wrote:
> Janet Wilder wrote:
>> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
>> question the veracity of your opinions.
>
> But you weren't privy to firsthand information. Someone else told you
> something about something. That's already secondhand information. If you
> had seen it for yourself, you would then have been privy to firsthand
> information.

Methinks that even if I had seen it myself you would have disputed it.

Bye

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Saerah Gray wrote:
> Pennyaline > fnord news:48cb15b9$0$89875
> :
>
>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
>>> question the veracity of your opinions.
>> But you weren't privy to firsthand information. Someone else told you
>> something about something. That's already secondhand information. If
> you
>> had seen it for yourself, you would then have been privy to firsthand
>> information.
>>
>
> And I imagine, at this late date, that if someone had seen such a thing
> besides her mother, that it would have been reported on. Someone would
> have taken pictures or video.
>
I think you missed reading the part where the media were told by the
government not to publish/air the stories.

Believe what you want. I don't want to waste any more time trying to
change fixed ideas.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

I was working on a crew building a house in the middle of nowhere, Tn.

First strike, we all assumed it was a Cessna.

Second strike was caught on camera.

We worked mindlessly for an hour or so, then we decided to call it a day.
We all wanted to go home and see what we were hearing on the radio.


There were 2 Mexican workers on our crew at the time. They didn't really
understand why we were going home early.
They knew the next day.

I couldn't get enough of the footage. It was as if I would watch it enough,
it would cease to be real.

It was a day that knocked a country to it's knees. It was a day that our
government took control of our lives, because we weren't responsible enough.


TFM®

Saerah Gray wrote:
> Janet Wilder > fnord news:48caf48a$0$12371
> :
>
>> Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>>> You're an asshole for believing this rot and a bigger one for
>>> spreading it.
>> Sorry the truth has upset you so much. I don't lie. The people who had
>> the direct experiences did not lie and the relative in the news media
>> had no reason to lie.
>>
>
> Then why is it that no independent news sources reported such a thing?

If you would have read my entire posts, you would have seen where the
media was banned by the government from reporting it. If the video tape
(and I was led to believe that there was video tape) of the people in
Paterson, NJ celebrating the killing of Americans had been aired,
thousands of Arab-Americans would have been placed in danger.

....but you and Boron only read what you want and react with a fixed
mindset so, I'm not going to bother debating this with either of you any
longer. If you want to think you "won" the debate, I don't really care.

I don't lie and the people who told me their first hand experiences
didn't lie either. They had no reason to lie, just as you have no reason
to call them or me a liar.


--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from Janet Wilder > contains these words:
>
>
>> The fact that it was only one particular ethnic group that the eye
>> witnesses I know reported, probably speaks for itself.
>
> You still haven't answered the question; how did your eye witness
> mother know what they were celebrating? How did she know it wasn't a
> birthday or marriage party having fun?
>
> Janet

I think I posted that they were shouting things about the WTC.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from Janet Wilder > contains these words:
>
>> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>> The message >
>>> from Janet Wilder > contains these words:
>>>
>>>
>>>> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab community
>>>> was celebrating by dancing in the streets. To this day, I cannot imagine
>>>> anyone living in this country rejoicing at such death and destruction.
>>> How did your mother know what it was she saw them celebrating? How
>>> could she tell it was not a wedding, or birth, or religious festival?
>>>
>>> Janet in Scotland.
>
>> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends who
>> had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
>> particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
>> being shouted in the streets.
>
> Hardly surprising at the time!! In other cultures (like the UK)
> it's the custom for newsvendors to shout the latest news on the street
> .
>
>> I don't think it was a wedding. No one saw a bride and groom or anything
>> like that.
>
> But you don't know, unless they asked or were told.. It could have
> been any kind of a harmless celebration such as a special birthday or
> baby born.
>
> Janet

Sorry if I offended you, but the truth is the truth to me and I really
don't care how you want to warp it. Those people were shouting and
cheering the destruction of American lives and an attack on American
soil. I know it to be a fact and I don't really care what little dances
you want to do to get around it.

Bye.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Boron Elgar wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:10:33 -0500, Janet Wilder
> > wrote:
>
>
>> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends who
>> had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
>> particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
>> being shouted in the streets.
>
> What an interesting outing to undertake on 9-11.
>
> I call bullshit again.

BIOYA

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

"Saerah Gray" > wrote in message
. 102...
> ChattyCathy > fnord news:gaekvt$uk4$1
> @registered.motzarella.org:
>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:16:18 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Yes, you're quite right about the food. I had wanted to take David
>>>> there
>>>> just for the experience, as he had never been there. There was
>>>> nothing quite like the view.
>>>
>>> still, it seems a long way for the saudis to go just to destroy a
>>> mediocre restaurant.
>>
>>
>> Two words:
>>
>> douglas adams
>>
>
> I guess we should be thankful we don't have Vogons to worry about


Best movie *ever*.

TFM® - I only read when I'm in jail. Thankfully I've been illiterate for a
number of years.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
...
> Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:10:33 -0500, Janet Wilder
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends who
>>> had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
>>> particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
>>> being shouted in the streets.
>>
>> What an interesting outing to undertake on 9-11.
>>
>> I call bullshit again.
>
> BIOYA
>

Ooo! Ooo! I know what that means! I know! oo! oo!

BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS.

I'm right, aren't I?

"Saerah Gray" > wrote in message
. 102...
> Pennyaline > fnord news:48cb15b9$0$89875
> :
>
>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
>>> question the veracity of your opinions.
>>
>> But you weren't privy to firsthand information. Someone else told you
>> something about something. That's already secondhand information. If
> you
>> had seen it for yourself, you would then have been privy to firsthand
>> information.
>>
>
> And I imagine, at this late date, that if someone had seen such a thing
> besides her mother, that it would have been reported on. Someone would
> have taken pictures or video.
>

Yes indeed.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:58:22 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> You're an asshole for believing this rot and a bigger one for
>> spreading it.
>
>Sorry the truth has upset you so much. I don't lie. The people who had
>the direct experiences did not lie and the relative in the news media
>had no reason to lie.

There is no truth there. The reports were false, stated as untrue by
the accused community, as well as government officials and officers of
the law.

Your mother and her friends did not make a trip into an Arabic
neighborhood on 9-11. It just did not happen.

Your media friend is an ill-informed idiot and as big a fool as you.
No one suppressed this publication of this story.
>
>Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
>question the veracity of your opinions.

You question the "veracity" of my *opinions*? The "truthfulness" of my
opinions? Better get yourself a dictionary if you're going to come
after me. You make yourself look even more foolish.
>
>I also wonder why you are so agitated over my little statements. Are you
>protecting terrorists or something like that?

You work for Dubya?

Yes, indeed. There is a terrorist cell living in my basement right
this very minute. The sole purpose of the organization is to eliminate
lying bigots. Better watch your ass, honey,

God, you're dumb.

Janet Wilder > fnord news:48cb2526$0$1526$c3e8da3
@news.astraweb.com:

> Saerah Gray wrote:
>> Janet Wilder > fnord news:48caf48a$0$12371
>> :
>>
>>> Boron Elgar wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're an asshole for believing this rot and a bigger one for
>>>> spreading it.
>>> Sorry the truth has upset you so much. I don't lie. The people who
had
>>> the direct experiences did not lie and the relative in the news
media
>>> had no reason to lie.
>>>
>>
>> Then why is it that no independent news sources reported such a
thing?
>
> If you would have read my entire posts, you would have seen where the
> media was banned by the government from reporting it. If the video
tape
> (and I was led to believe that there was video tape) of the people in
> Paterson, NJ celebrating the killing of Americans had been aired,
> thousands of Arab-Americans would have been placed in danger.
>

Then why did no *independent* news sources report it? You still have not
answered that question.

> ...but you and Boron only read what you want and react with a fixed
> mindset so, I'm not going to bother debating this with either of you
any
> longer. If you want to think you "won" the debate, I don't really
care.
>
> I don't lie and the people who told me their first hand experiences
> didn't lie either. They had no reason to lie, just as you have no
reason
> to call them or me a liar.
>

Yes, there is a reason. Because it's not the truth.

Can you explain how "the government" kept all news sources, both major
and independent from reporting on this, if what you say is actually
true?

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:21:37 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Saerah Gray wrote:
>> Pennyaline > fnord news:48cb15b9$0$89875
>> :
>>
>>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>>> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was, I
>>>> question the veracity of your opinions.
>>> But you weren't privy to firsthand information. Someone else told you
>>> something about something. That's already secondhand information. If
>> you
>>> had seen it for yourself, you would then have been privy to firsthand
>>> information.
>>>
>>
>> And I imagine, at this late date, that if someone had seen such a thing
>> besides her mother, that it would have been reported on. Someone would
>> have taken pictures or video.
>>
> I think you missed reading the part where the media were told by the
>government not to publish/air the stories.

Go on, sweetie...prove this. Let's see you give some believable
reference that talks about the media being told not to publish the
story about Paterson.
>
>Believe what you want. I don't want to waste any more time trying to
>change fixed ideas.

Bigot.

Boron

Janet Wilder > fnord news:48cb2426$0$12367
:

> Saerah Gray wrote:
>> Pennyaline > fnord news:48cb15b9$0$89875
>> :
>>
>>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>>> Since you were not privy to the same first hand information I was,
I
>>>> question the veracity of your opinions.
>>> But you weren't privy to firsthand information. Someone else told
you
>>> something about something. That's already secondhand information. If
>> you
>>> had seen it for yourself, you would then have been privy to
firsthand
>>> information.
>>>
>>
>> And I imagine, at this late date, that if someone had seen such a
thing
>> besides her mother, that it would have been reported on. Someone
would
>> have taken pictures or video.
>>
> I think you missed reading the part where the media were told by the
> government not to publish/air the stories.
>
> Believe what you want. I don't want to waste any more time trying to
> change fixed ideas.
>

You act as if "the media" is a few people running an outfit that
produces all the news we see. It doesn't work that way. If this had
happened, you can bet that *someone* would have reported on it.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Janet Wilder > fnord
:

> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>> The message >
>> from Janet Wilder > contains these words:
>>
>>> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>>> The message >
>>>> from Janet Wilder > contains these words:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> My mother lived in Paterson, NJ and she told me that the Arab
>>>>> community was celebrating by dancing in the streets. To this day,
>>>>> I cannot imagine anyone living in this country rejoicing at such
>>>>> death and destruction.
>>>> How did your mother know what it was she saw them celebrating? How
>>>> could she tell it was not a wedding, or birth, or religious
>>>> festival?
>>>>
>>>> Janet in Scotland.
>>
>>> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends
>>> who had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in
>>> a particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the
>>> WTC being shouted in the streets.
>>
>> Hardly surprising at the time!! In other cultures (like the UK)
>> it's the custom for newsvendors to shout the latest news on the
>> street .
>>
>>> I don't think it was a wedding. No one saw a bride and groom or
>>> anything like that.
>>
>> But you don't know, unless they asked or were told.. It could have
>> been any kind of a harmless celebration such as a special birthday or
>> baby born.
>>
>> Janet
>
> Sorry if I offended you, but the truth is the truth to me and I really
> don't care how you want to warp it. Those people were shouting and
> cheering the destruction of American lives and an attack on American
> soil. I know it to be a fact and I don't really care what little
> dances you want to do to get around it.
>
> Bye.
>

You don't "know it to be a fact" because you did not see it first hand.
You supposedly heard a story from your mother about it.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:29:55 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:10:33 -0500, Janet Wilder
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends who
>>> had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
>>> particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
>>> being shouted in the streets.
>>
>> What an interesting outing to undertake on 9-11.
>>
>> I call bullshit again.
>
>BIOYA


Darlin' you've been doing that for the past 2 days. That is why I am
ragging on you and your sorry bigotry.

All these people you came across - your mother, then some friend in
the media and then kids in a dorm - seem to offer you some celebratory
eye witnessing or tall tale and STILL you cling to this claptrap.

Truly, you really grabbed my imagination, pegged yourself, and set the
tone, though, with your intro:

************************************************** ************
....I had been watching the NYC Fox station on satellite when
the first plane hit. I thought it was a small plane accident.

I left the trailer to go use the pay phone and when I got back,....
************************************************** ************

Fox and a trailer - perfect together.

Boron

Boron Elgar > fnord
:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:29:55 -0500, Janet Wilder
> > wrote:
>
>>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:10:33 -0500, Janet Wilder
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of
>>>> friends who had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get
>>>> something in a particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many
>>>> references to the WTC being shouted in the streets.
>>>
>>> What an interesting outing to undertake on 9-11.
>>>
>>> I call bullshit again.
>>
>>BIOYA
>
>
> Darlin' you've been doing that for the past 2 days. That is why I am
> ragging on you and your sorry bigotry.
>
> All these people you came across - your mother, then some friend in
> the media and then kids in a dorm - seem to offer you some celebratory
> eye witnessing or tall tale and STILL you cling to this claptrap.
>
> Truly, you really grabbed my imagination, pegged yourself, and set the
> tone, though, with your intro:
>
> ************************************************** ************
> ...I had been watching the NYC Fox station on satellite when
> the first plane hit. I thought it was a small plane accident.
>
> I left the trailer to go use the pay phone and when I got back,....
> ************************************************** ************
>
> Fox and a trailer - perfect together.
>
> Boron
>

To her credit, I think she said she was on a camping trip.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

cybercat wrote:
> "none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote
>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before been
>> fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>
> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the Third
> World," do you?
>
>
This discussion has become distinctly unsavory.
So, in the interest of politeness...

I have friends and acquaintances from many places. My next door neighbor
Ali is from Nigeria, for instance. He came here because he likes it
better here. Nice guy, though his youngest toddler-age kid can be really
REALLY noisy (grin).
Cute kid, though. He keeps doing that "HI!" thing little kids do. He's
so proud of knowing a word in the English language, and he should be! I
know nothing at all of the language of Nigeria, and I'm over 50!
I won't hold it against him that he stole the knob off of the water tap
for my lawn sprinkler for a play-toy, just 'cause.

If someone from whatever you call a "third world country" told me of the
terrible oppression his country had suffered from the US, I would regard
him as I do a co-worker who believes the World Trade Center was blown up
by American conspirators, or the woman who told me she has seen UFOs and
went on to tell me how to tell whether your car's headlights are
reflecting from an ordinary animal's eyes, or those of a Sasquach. Or
perhaps the online discussion elsewhere accusing our military of
disguising explosives as food packets. Or even the work acquaintance who
confided to me the astounding story of cars running on water via the use
of "Brown's Gas". There are a large number of people out there who
believe in such foolishness, probably for the sheer entertainment value
of it.

Go ahead and believe whatever you want.

Me? I let some of my broccoli stay in the garden too long before
harvesting it, and now it has a lot more fiber than one would hope to
find in one's broccoli.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:28:26 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>sf wrote:
>
>> She me a convincing picture.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3xgayd
>
>Is THAT convincing enough?
>
HEH!



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

TFM® wrote:
> It was a day that knocked a country to it's knees. It was a day that
> our government took control of our lives, because we weren't responsible
> enough.

Not responsible enough or not thinking on our feet? The government took
control of our lives sometime afterward, after too many United States
citizens brainlessly succumbed to White House horseshit and Rudy
Giuliani changed his middle name to "9/11."

Saerah Gray wrote:
> none <""Mark\"@(none)"> fnord
> t:
>
>> cybercat wrote:
>>> "none" <""Mark\"@(none)"> wrote
>>>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>>>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before
>>>> been fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>>>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US.
>>> You don't have any friend raised in what we charmingly call "the
>>> Third World," do you?
>>>
>>>
>> Why would you ask such an utterly irrelevant question?
>
> Depending on the particular country said person hails from, she has a
> very valid point here.
>
Not really. If a culture is steeped in hatred, as is radical Islam,
having a friend or acquaintance from that culture recite to me the
propaganda he has heard and sincerely believed throughout his life,
would not cause me to accept his beliefs as factual.
Truth is not discovered through a contest of its popularity, but by
observation of actual events.
Is the United States populated by saints and angels? No.
Are we tyrants oppressing the world? Again, no.
We are people like any other, who enjoy an unusually well-written
Constitution, and we have an enemy who wishes us enslaved or dead. Hey,
that's life I guess.

Pennyaline wrote:
> none wrote:
>> I live in Washington State, and so when my clock radio woke me that
>> morning, it was an awakening to a changed world. I had never before
>> been fully aware of the true depth of the hatred that some barbarian
>> "civilizations" have oh-so-carefully cultivated toward the US. That
>> they would gleefully murder almost three thousand people of all
>> nationalities and cultures simply because they happened to be in a
>> large building in America - and for what?
>
> Which barbarian civilization are you referring to? The attacks were not
> sent forth from any nation. They were the product of a group of radicals
> whose members, true to radical front form, espouse someone else's
> arbitrary rhetoric and invest little of their own intellect into their
> actions as members of that group.
>
>
>
>> Some captured terrorists claimed it to be retaliation for Pres.
>> Clinton's cruise-missile assault on terrorist training camps in
>> Afghanistan and the Sudan earlier, which in turn were said to be in
>> retaliation for several terrorist attacks on US Embassies... Sounds
>> almost reasonable for a madman's excuse, until you remember that the
>> World Trade Center was not a singularly "American" target. A lot of
>> those who died there that morning were Islamic Arabs.
>> That is the difference between a soldier and a terrorist. Whatever his
>> cause, for good or evil, the difference is whether he fights against
>> other soldiers, or he deliberately targets and kills innocent civilians.
>
> The WTC was a singularly America target. It was an extreme monument to
> American idealism under attack by a group targeting American idealism.
> The attackers were not a nation's fighting force warring against another
> fighting force.
>
> That point was well established long ago, and still so many refuse to
> get it. It's astonishing how many people think it is and has always been
> about Iraq and Saddam Hussain.
>
>
>
>> I made it through that day and the days after, like a robot, doing my
>> job and getting by as best I could. It wasn't until I heard the first
>> airplane take off from a small local airfield, and watched that little
>> turbo-prop twin climbing like a homesick angel... That I finally fell
>> to my knees and cried.
>>
>> "It's over." I thought, And I would give all that I am and all that I
>> have to prevent it happening again.
>
> I tend to be dismissive of those who went "on autopilot," "walked around
> in a daze" or "a haze" or any other manner of bludgeoned existence in
> the days following the attacks, unless of course they had friends and/or
> family involved in it or experienced it personally. It was shocking and
> certainly effecting when it happened, but it's extreme drama to insist
> that the shock carried on as a personal matter for weeks on end when one
> was not even a third-hand involved party. Most people as far removed as
> that carried on immediately and recovered rapidly. Sometimes, someone
> would mention a sudden feeling of guilt when they realized that they had
> recovered so well they had forgotten all about it as they went about
> their lives very normally.
>
> So understand why I gag when I see "I finally fell to my knees and
> cried" and "I would give all that I am and all that I have," especially
> this late in the game.

I am truly sorry, but your depth of misunderstanding is beyond my
ability to attempt repair.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
...
> Saerah Gray wrote:
>> Janet Wilder > fnord news:48caf48a$0$12371
>> :
>>
>>> Boron Elgar wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're an asshole for believing this rot and a bigger one for
>>>> spreading it.
>>> Sorry the truth has upset you so much. I don't lie. The people who had
>>> the direct experiences did not lie and the relative in the news media
>>> had no reason to lie.
>>>
>>
>> Then why is it that no independent news sources reported such a thing?
>
> If you would have read my entire posts, you would have seen where the
> media was banned by the government from reporting it. If the video tape
> (and I was led to believe that there was video tape) of the people in
> Paterson, NJ celebrating the killing of Americans had been aired,
> thousands of Arab-Americans would have been placed in danger.
>
> ...but you and Boron only read what you want and react with a fixed
> mindset so, I'm not going to bother debating this with either of you any
> longer. If you want to think you "won" the debate, I don't really care.
>
> I don't lie and the people who told me their first hand experiences didn't
> lie either. They had no reason to lie, just as you have no reason to call
> them or me a liar.


Isn't it amazing how a keyboard can be used so effectively as a wedge
between potential friends?

TFM® - remaining neutral.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:29:55 -0500, Janet Wilder
> > wrote:
>
>>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:10:33 -0500, Janet Wilder
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> My mother, who, BTW passed away in 2003, was with a group of friends
>>>> who
>>>> had gone to an Arab neighborhood in Paterson to get something in a
>>>> particular shop, IIRC, said that they heard many references to the WTC
>>>> being shouted in the streets.
>>>
>>> What an interesting outing to undertake on 9-11.
>>>
>>> I call bullshit again.
>>
>>BIOYA
>
>
> Darlin' you've been doing that for the past 2 days. That is why I am
> ragging on you and your sorry bigotry.
>
> All these people you came across - your mother, then some friend in
> the media and then kids in a dorm - seem to offer you some celebratory
> eye witnessing or tall tale and STILL you cling to this claptrap.
>
> Truly, you really grabbed my imagination, pegged yourself, and set the
> tone, though, with your intro:
>
> ************************************************** ************
> ...I had been watching the NYC Fox station on satellite when
> the first plane hit. I thought it was a small plane accident.
>
> I left the trailer to go use the pay phone and when I got back,....
> ************************************************** ************
>
> Fox and a trailer - perfect together.
>
> Boron

Speaking of bigotry...
That rings of Sheldon.


TFM®

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:31:51 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>
><sf> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:13:21 -0400, Stan Horwitz >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >A friend of mine who was in the Pentagon at that
>> >time has an interesting story about that day.
>>
>> How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
>> it?
>
>
>Planes "fly low" and hit things ALL the time...have you ever been to an
>airport...???
>
>
> Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
>> that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
>> at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
>> they collapsed)?
>
>
>Unlike the relatively flimsy WTC the Pentagon is of very sturdy
>construction, fortress - like in fact. That's yer answer...

The hole looks like a tunnel. That plane had to be taxiing to hit it
at a 90° angle. Plus, there is no explanation why the hole is so
round and no airplane debris was found anywhere.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"sf" wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:31:51 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>><sf> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:13:21 -0400, Stan Horwitz >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >A friend of mine who was in the Pentagon at that
>>> >time has an interesting story about that day.
>>>
>>> How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
>>> it?
>>
>>
>>Planes "fly low" and hit things ALL the time...have you ever been to an
>>airport...???
>>
>>
>> Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
>>> that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
>>> at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
>>> they collapsed)?
>>
>>
>>Unlike the relatively flimsy WTC the Pentagon is of very sturdy
>>construction, fortress - like in fact. That's yer answer...
>
> The hole looks like a tunnel. That plane had to be taxiing to hit it
> at a 90° angle. Plus, there is no explanation why the hole is so
> round and no airplane debris was found anywhere.


Everyone already believes what they will believe for the rest of their
lives. Evidence is not enough to change anyone's mind.

TFM®

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:45:09 -0400, TFM®
> wrote:

>
>
>"sf" wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:31:51 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>><sf> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:13:21 -0400, Stan Horwitz >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >A friend of mine who was in the Pentagon at that
>>>> >time has an interesting story about that day.
>>>>
>>>> How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
>>>> it?
>>>
>>>
>>>Planes "fly low" and hit things ALL the time...have you ever been to an
>>>airport...???
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
>>>> that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
>>>> at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
>>>> they collapsed)?
>>>
>>>
>>>Unlike the relatively flimsy WTC the Pentagon is of very sturdy
>>>construction, fortress - like in fact. That's yer answer...
>>
>> The hole looks like a tunnel. That plane had to be taxiing to hit it
>> at a 90° angle. Plus, there is no explanation why the hole is so
>> round and no airplane debris was found anywhere.
>
>
>Everyone already believes what they will believe for the rest of their
>lives. Evidence is not enough to change anyone's mind.
>
>TFM®

I guess you're right... and I honestly don't care.

The way the country has been lead racing down the wrong path, I figure
they got what they voted for - twice. If they choose to elect it a
third time (and an even worse choice at that)... well, they and their
children will have to live with the consequences. I'll be dead in due
time and I won't care.

sf
glad not to be anywhere near 21


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Fri 12 Sep 2008 11:03:54p, told us...

> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:45:09 -0400, TFM®
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"sf" wrote in message ...
>>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:31:51 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><sf> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:13:21 -0400, Stan Horwitz >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >A friend of mine who was in the Pentagon at that
>>>>> >time has an interesting story about that day.
>>>>>
>>>>> How could an airplane hit the Pentagon so low and still actually hit
>>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Planes "fly low" and hit things ALL the time...have you ever been to an
>>>>airport...???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you tell us why there are no visible remains of the airplane
>>>>> that supposedly hit the pentagon? Why isn't the hole in the pentagon
>>>>> at least airplane shaped (the way it was on the world towers before
>>>>> they collapsed)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Unlike the relatively flimsy WTC the Pentagon is of very sturdy
>>>>construction, fortress - like in fact. That's yer answer...
>>>
>>> The hole looks like a tunnel. That plane had to be taxiing to hit it
>>> at a 90° angle. Plus, there is no explanation why the hole is so
>>> round and no airplane debris was found anywhere.
>>
>>
>>Everyone already believes what they will believe for the rest of their
>>lives. Evidence is not enough to change anyone's mind.
>>
>>TFM®
>
> I guess you're right... and I honestly don't care.
>
> The way the country has been lead racing down the wrong path, I figure
> they got what they voted for - twice. If they choose to elect it a
> third time (and an even worse choice at that)... well, they and their
> children will have to live with the consequences. I'll be dead in due
> time and I won't care.
>
> sf
> glad not to be anywhere near 21
>
>

You and me both! I'm just further along. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Friday, 09(IX)/12(XII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
8wks 3dys 32mins
*******************************************
Pi R squared. Nooo! Pie R round,
cornbread R square!
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