In article >,
"kilikini" > wrote:

> John Kane wrote:
> >
> > BTW Dave, check into just how easy it is to get classifed as Disabled
> > in Ontario or
> > Alberta. Rumour is that a first application is automatically
> > rejected. This can leave the truely disabled on welfare, not because
> > they are abusing the system but rather because the government is
> > abusing the system.
> >
> > John Kane Kingston.
>
> It took me 3 times to qualify for Disability. Here in the U.S. they
> automatically deny you the first time, too. If you don't fight it, I guess
> you really don't need it, huh? I fought it, reapplied and I got it - the
> third time. Of course that was after 2 surgeries and I had medical records
> about 100 pages long. LOL.
>
> kili

I'm just glad you finally won. A lot of people that really need it
can't seem to fight long enough to get it. They run out of money and
time.

<hugs!>
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
"Mike Pearce" > wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
> m...
> >
>
> > The poorest of the Katrina refugees are a a largely shifteless and
> > criminal
> > welfare underclass...go to any of the nabes in the cities where some
> > of them
> > settled (Houston...) and you'll see...NO one wants them, either as
> > neighbors
> > or co - workers because of their assorted ghetto pathologies.
> >
>
> Who would want to live near shiftless and criminal types? Those kind
> of folks can be found just about anywhere. New Orleans has no monopoly
> on scumbags.
>
> -Mike

ROFL!!!

Thanks for the morning chuckle!

I see you've never been there. I have.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
T > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > In article > ,
> > Saerah Gray > wrote:
> >
> > > Minimum wage doesn't pay the bills. I am barely paying the bills on 13
> > > an hour; which is twice the federal minimum wage.
> > >
> > > I am all for education, but without a *college* education, or a lot of
> > > on-the job training and promotions, (which takes a long time) it's
> > > *very* difficult to find a job that can support a family on one income.
> > > Even a family of two.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Saerah
> > >
> > > "Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
> > > - some hillbilly from FL
> >
> > Sometimes even having a college education is no guarantee of a good
> > wage... $14.00 per hour should be a living wage for my relatives, but
> > it's not. Not with today's economy. :-(
> >
>
> $80 an hour seems to cover it. When we negotiated I almost fell out of
> my chair when they accepted my per hour rate.
>
> Going from unemployment insurace to this sure is nice.

Congrats. My base pay is only $23.00 per hour. Fortunately I work night
shifts...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
T > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > In article >,
> > Dave Smith > wrote:
> >
> > > Omelet wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > John Kane > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Reform the education system, put a lot , and I mean a lot, of money
> > > >> into neo-natal cre and early childhood education, change some of the
> > > >> labour and welfare laws that usually work to make it better to stay on
> > > >> welfare, institute a decent health care system that covers the working
> > > >> poor.
> > > >>
> > > >> Try spending money on programs to rehabilitate prisonners, rather than
> > > >> warehousing them. Include real vocational training.
> > > >
> > > > Wouldn't that be nice... :-)
> > >
> > > It sounds good in theory, except that you're often dealing with people
> > > who dropped out because they were not interested in education.
> >
> > Motivate them.
> >
>
> There is no motivating some people. I've known some like that and no
> matter what you did, even physically kick them in the ass, you could not
> motivate them.
>
> There are just some out there who have a 70 IQ for a reason.
>
> What else do you propose we do with them?

Slave labor?

<ducking and running like hell!!!>
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:16:06 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>>
>>>>> How do you differentiate between use and abuse of the system?
>>>> I think that's the entire basis of this discussion babe. :-(
>>> maybe so; you assume most recipients are unworthy and i do not.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> Did I ever say that? Even ONCE???
>
> I don't recall you saying that. It is just a cheap attempt to make you
> look cheap and uncaring, and unwarranted attack your credibility. The
> fact is that there are people who are too lazy to work and who abuse the
> system that is meant to help those in need.

....and i don't favor letting even those people starve by denying them the
crumbs from my table.

blake

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:09:27 -0500, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:45:58 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
>>> In article 7>,
>>> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not insinuating anything. I'm *stating* that welfare *abusers*
>>>> (abusers for any reason) should have either severely limited or no
>>>> benefits
>>>> at all.
>>>
>>> Welfare ABUSERS are the problem and the issue.
>>>
>>> I'll say again, I have no problem with helping people that need help!
>>> It's those that go out of their way to earn a free living that are the
>>> entire problem!
>>
>> and what percentage of the awful, awful one percent of your taxes do they
>> absorb?
>>
>> christ, you begrudge these people the crumbs off your table. how
>> compassionate.
>>
>> blake
>
> You have no clu' Blake. A good 10% of my NET income right now goes out
> to both family members and a good friend that needs the money. I could
> do the work I pay her to do for me, but her PRIDE makes her want to work
> for what she gets.
>
> She never outright asked me for money. She asked if I had any work she
> could help me with.

but people not in your family or your circle of friends don't deserve
consideration.

blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:16:06 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > Omelet wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> How do you differentiate between use and abuse of the system?
> >>>> I think that's the entire basis of this discussion babe. :-(
> >>> maybe so; you assume most recipients are unworthy and i do not.
> >>>
> >>> your pal,
> >>> blake
> >>
> >> Did I ever say that? Even ONCE???
> >
> > I don't recall you saying that. It is just a cheap attempt to make you
> > look cheap and uncaring, and unwarranted attack your credibility. The
> > fact is that there are people who are too lazy to work and who abuse the
> > system that is meant to help those in need.
>
> ...and i don't favor letting even those people starve by denying them the
> crumbs from my table.
>
> blake

Neither do I....

unless it's a case of the grasshopper and the ant.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:09:27 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > blake murphy > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:45:58 -0500, Omelet wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article 7>,
> >>> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm not insinuating anything. I'm *stating* that welfare *abusers*
> >>>> (abusers for any reason) should have either severely limited or no
> >>>> benefits
> >>>> at all.
> >>>
> >>> Welfare ABUSERS are the problem and the issue.
> >>>
> >>> I'll say again, I have no problem with helping people that need help!
> >>> It's those that go out of their way to earn a free living that are the
> >>> entire problem!
> >>
> >> and what percentage of the awful, awful one percent of your taxes do they
> >> absorb?
> >>
> >> christ, you begrudge these people the crumbs off your table. how
> >> compassionate.
> >>
> >> blake
> >
> > You have no clu' Blake. A good 10% of my NET income right now goes out
> > to both family members and a good friend that needs the money. I could
> > do the work I pay her to do for me, but her PRIDE makes her want to work
> > for what she gets.
> >
> > She never outright asked me for money. She asked if I had any work she
> > could help me with.
>
> but people not in your family or your circle of friends don't deserve
> consideration.
>
> blake

If I give away ALL of my income Blake, what am _I_ supposed to live on?

I have bills and needs too.

And I'm no technophile.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:00:25 -0500, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:04:54 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
>>> In article > ,
>>> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Omelet > fnord
>>>> news >>>>
>>>>> In article > ,
>>>>> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, you won't define "refuse to work". Are you aware of how
>>>>>> expensive childcare is? If you're making a thousand dollars a month,
>>>>>> and half or more goes to childcare, what are you supposed to live on?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is why work at home programs would be the practical answer to
>>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> What kind of work do you suggest they do (for the government, right?) at
>>>> home?
>>>
>>> Sewing, clerical work, etc. Now with the internet, even some businesses
>>> have people doing computer work from home.
>>
>> yep, all you have to do is buy a computer and pay for internet access. no
>> problem there.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> <sigh>
>
> The employer generally pays for the tools, and the training...

where is this magic land where the employer takes an unemployed person and
gives them the computer and the internet access and the training to
possibly qualify for a job working at home for them? i'd really like to
know.

blake

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:07:37 -0500, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:29:54 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> "kilikini" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>> In article > ,
>>>>> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel very, very privileged to have low-cost health insurance
>>>>>> provided to me by my employer.
>>>>>
>>>>> So do I, and I still can't afford it. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The health care issue is a whole 'nuther topic. Regulation adds a
>>>>> considerable expense to it. Since I work in health care, I see it
>>>>> first hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> And by the way, no federally subsidized ER (like ours) can refuse
>>>>> basic and emergency health care to anyone. We care for plenty of
>>>>> homeless in our ER...
>>>>
>>>> What happens in regards to recurring medical treatment? Someone may
>>>> become
>>>> sick and initially go to the ER, but what if the situation is serious and
>>>> the individual needs lots of follow-up appointments?
>>>
>>> They keep coming back to the ER usually. We have a lot of "frequent
>>> flyers". I know some of the more compassionate MD's that even do
>>> volunteer work not only here, but third world countries too.
>>>
>>>> How does a person with
>>>> no insurance receive that? That was the situation I found myself in. I
>>>> initially got help for a private cancer agency, but when it came to
>>>> multiple
>>>> surgeries and the myriad of doctor's appointments, I was stuck. Luckily,
>>>> I
>>>> qualified for Medicaid. I wish it was available to everyone; it certainly
>>>> should be. All my tests are covered, all my follow-ups and all my
>>>> surgeries. If I had private insurance, most of the tests (partly due to
>>>> the
>>>> frequency of the tests) would probably not be covered.
>>>>
>>>> kili
>>>
>>> Heh! Tell me about it! That's what I'm running into right now. Insurance
>>> is not always a good thing. I'm supposed to see a cardiologist and get
>>> regular physical therapy, but cannot afford it even with insurance!
>>
>> why not go to the emergency room, since treatment there is so peachy?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians separate
> fee.

well, the hundred-dollar co-pay makes the e.r. an ideal place for poor
people to get treatment then. no need to insure them!

blake

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:21:11 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
>
>>>> Heh! Tell me about it! That's what I'm running into right now. Insurance
>>>> is not always a good thing. I'm supposed to see a cardiologist and get
>>>> regular physical therapy, but cannot afford it even with insurance!
>>> why not go to the emergency room, since treatment there is so peachy?
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians separate
>> fee.
>
> It is a shame that you don't have government health insurance like we
> have in Canada. Everyone is eligible regardless of pre-exisitng
> conditions. In Ontario we pay a yearly OHIP fee and employers pay a
> health tax per employee. It is also funded through other tax revenues.
> It costs me nothing to go to a doctor. It costs me nothing to go to
> emergency. It costs nothing for X rays or other tests. Prescriptions
> drugs are not covered, but there is supplemental health insurance
> available for that. It isn't a perfect system, but people don't face
> financial crisis because of medical care.

yet it's an article of faith among u.s. conservatives that 'socialized
medicine' is madness. go figure.

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:47:50 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>>
>>>> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians separate
>>>> fee.
>>> It is a shame that you don't have government health insurance like we
>>> have in Canada. Everyone is eligible regardless of pre-exisitng
>>> conditions.
>>
>> I suspect it's coming. My main concern with Socialized health care is
>> what it's going to cost us.
>>
>> Nothing is free. Only time will tell.
>
> Most of us know that it is not free. There is less spent per capita on
> health care in the US and Canadians live a little longer.
>

yes, god forbid money spent on medical treatment should actually go to
providers instead of passing through the hands of insurance companies who
take a little off the top for their trouble.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:30:30 -0700 (PDT), John Kane wrote:

> On Sep 16, 1:01*pm, Omelet > wrote:
>>
>> I suspect it's coming. *My main concern with Socialized health care is
>> what it's going to cost us.
>
> Well if you do it like most of the other OECD countries it should cost
> you about 50% or less than the current US health "system". Cost per
> captia in Canada $2,998, cost per capita USA $5,711.
>
> http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

stand by for tales of year-long waits for hip replacements and canadians
coming south for 'good' medical care...

paying more for worse medical care (and higher mortality rates) is a
god-given right according to opponents of 'socialized medicine.'

your pal,
blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> where is this magic land where the employer takes an unemployed person and
> gives them the computer and the internet access and the training to
> possibly qualify for a job working at home for them? i'd really like to
> know.
>
> blake

I personally know two people that were trained to be truck drivers by
their new employers...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:35:39 -0500, Omelet wrote:

> In article 7>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>>
>> Figuring out most drug combinations and dosages are often difficult.
>
> I wish you well. Ideally, we can find the cause and fix it from there,
> but I'd rather live.
>
> I ran a high heart rate for a couple of years before it got that bad.
> And we've been "playing" with the Thyroid levels for about as long. It
> got bad tho' when the pharmacy switched me to a generic instead of the
> name brand without telling me.
>
> It can make a difference.
>
> The tachycardia does cause High BP but I never checked that. At 100 BPM,
> it was 128 over 91. Borderline high thank the gods.
>
> Right now, Bystolic is keeping my heart rate low which keeps the BP down.
>
> Cause or effect?
>
> I can't afford the Cardiology consult right now.

but at least you're not suffering under the dreaded 'socialized medicine'
system.

blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> > Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians separate
> > fee.
>
> well, the hundred-dollar co-pay makes the e.r. an ideal place for poor
> people to get treatment then. no need to insure them!
>
> blake

Actually, it does. Emergency rooms in most areas are federally
subsidized to provide care for those that cannot afford it. I don't
qualify. I work there and the $100.00 co-pay is set by MY insurance.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:12:25 -0500, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:44:36 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
>>> In article > ,
>>> T > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What is your income tax rate?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, about 40% when you add up state and federal plus the various dips
>>>> for SSI, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I need to buy property so I get the interest and tax write offs.
>>>
>>> A 40% income tax rate would have me living in subsidized housing and
>>> eating top ramen.
>>>
>>> Mine is around 25% and that's bad enough. (That includes SSI tax).
>>
>> omgomg!!! jackbooted i.r.s. men are snatching the food from your mouth!
>> better stock up on canned goods and ammo.
>>
>> blake
>
> I'm glad you are rolling around in Caviar Blake. I'm eating chicken feet
> and rice.
>
> And can barely afford the freakin' gas for my commutes to work.

and the one percent of the twenty-five percent of your income (i seem to
remeber you saying that was your tax burden) is not materially affecting
that. that would come to one quarter cent on the dollar. think you can
spare it?

blake

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:42:36 -0400, cybercat wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote :
>>
>> well, there are soap operas, and she may be becoming the star of one now.
>>
>>
>
> She's sounding a bit like Ross Perot when he went paranoid, over this
> investigation of her dealings with her brother-in-law. It did not take
> long for the fruitcake factor to come front and center.

i tuned in 'saturday night live' for the first time in many years last
saturday, and tina fey had her impression of palin *down*. it was uncanny,
even the voice.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote
> but at least you're not suffering under the dreaded 'socialized medicine'
> system.
>

I've got you .... under my skin.

I've got you ... deep in the hearrrrrt of me .....

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:21:11 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > Omelet wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>> Heh! Tell me about it! That's what I'm running into right now. Insurance
> >>>> is not always a good thing. I'm supposed to see a cardiologist and get
> >>>> regular physical therapy, but cannot afford it even with insurance!
> >>> why not go to the emergency room, since treatment there is so peachy?
> >>>
> >>> your pal,
> >>> blake
> >>
> >> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians separate
> >> fee.
> >
> > It is a shame that you don't have government health insurance like we
> > have in Canada. Everyone is eligible regardless of pre-exisitng
> > conditions. In Ontario we pay a yearly OHIP fee and employers pay a
> > health tax per employee. It is also funded through other tax revenues.
> > It costs me nothing to go to a doctor. It costs me nothing to go to
> > emergency. It costs nothing for X rays or other tests. Prescriptions
> > drugs are not covered, but there is supplemental health insurance
> > available for that. It isn't a perfect system, but people don't face
> > financial crisis because of medical care.
>
> yet it's an article of faith among u.s. conservatives that 'socialized
> medicine' is madness. go figure.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I'm a conservative liberal. To me, socialized medicine is not a bad
thing IF it's administered properly! When it finally comes to pass,
there is no doubt it'll make my job even more "challenging", but I
understand the necessity/need of it.

But once again, there is the issue of the abusers. Those who go to the
ER for every cough, sniffle and scratch. :-(

That problem already exists. Socializing it will probably exacerbate it.

You think the wait and lines are long now? Since when did
governmentalizing anything improve it? <sigh>

I don't know what the answer is sometimes. I really don't. I'm open to
suggestion.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:47:50 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > Omelet wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians separate
> >>>> fee.
> >>> It is a shame that you don't have government health insurance like we
> >>> have in Canada. Everyone is eligible regardless of pre-exisitng
> >>> conditions.
> >>
> >> I suspect it's coming. My main concern with Socialized health care is
> >> what it's going to cost us.
> >>
> >> Nothing is free. Only time will tell.
> >
> > Most of us know that it is not free. There is less spent per capita on
> > health care in the US and Canadians live a little longer.
> >
>
> yes, god forbid money spent on medical treatment should actually go to
> providers instead of passing through the hands of insurance companies who
> take a little off the top for their trouble.
>
> your pal,
> blake

That's actually a valid point... but wait 'till the government takes the
place of the insurance companies babe. ;-)

Talk about graft.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:30:30 -0700 (PDT), John Kane wrote:
>
> > On Sep 16, 1:01*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> >>
> >> I suspect it's coming. *My main concern with Socialized health care is
> >> what it's going to cost us.
> >
> > Well if you do it like most of the other OECD countries it should cost
> > you about 50% or less than the current US health "system". Cost per
> > captia in Canada $2,998, cost per capita USA $5,711.
> >
> > http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
>
> stand by for tales of year-long waits for hip replacements and canadians
> coming south for 'good' medical care...
>
> paying more for worse medical care (and higher mortality rates) is a
> god-given right according to opponents of 'socialized medicine.'
>
> your pal,
> blake

Exactly.

The abusers cause issues for those that really need it.
That's what has screwed up our welfare system.

Which brings us back to the subject...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:35:39 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article 7>,
> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Figuring out most drug combinations and dosages are often difficult.
> >
> > I wish you well. Ideally, we can find the cause and fix it from there,
> > but I'd rather live.
> >
> > I ran a high heart rate for a couple of years before it got that bad.
> > And we've been "playing" with the Thyroid levels for about as long. It
> > got bad tho' when the pharmacy switched me to a generic instead of the
> > name brand without telling me.
> >
> > It can make a difference.
> >
> > The tachycardia does cause High BP but I never checked that. At 100 BPM,
> > it was 128 over 91. Borderline high thank the gods.
> >
> > Right now, Bystolic is keeping my heart rate low which keeps the BP down.
> >
> > Cause or effect?
> >
> > I can't afford the Cardiology consult right now.
>
> but at least you're not suffering under the dreaded 'socialized medicine'
> system.
>
> blake

Yet...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:12:25 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > blake murphy > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:44:36 -0500, Omelet wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article > ,
> >>> T > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> What is your income tax rate?
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh, about 40% when you add up state and federal plus the various dips
> >>>> for SSI, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> I need to buy property so I get the interest and tax write offs.
> >>>
> >>> A 40% income tax rate would have me living in subsidized housing and
> >>> eating top ramen.
> >>>
> >>> Mine is around 25% and that's bad enough. (That includes SSI tax).
> >>
> >> omgomg!!! jackbooted i.r.s. men are snatching the food from your mouth!
> >> better stock up on canned goods and ammo.
> >>
> >> blake
> >
> > I'm glad you are rolling around in Caviar Blake. I'm eating chicken feet
> > and rice.
> >
> > And can barely afford the freakin' gas for my commutes to work.
>
> and the one percent of the twenty-five percent of your income (i seem to
> remeber you saying that was your tax burden) is not materially affecting
> that. that would come to one quarter cent on the dollar. think you can
> spare it?
>
> blake

On top of all the other government added 1/4 percents... Perhaps.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

"blake murphy" > wrote
>
> i tuned in 'saturday night live' for the first time in many years last
> saturday, and tina fey had her impression of palin *down*. it was
> uncanny,
> even the voice.
>

I saw this! It was the only funny part of the show. The tv game show with
the creationist family answering the questions about science had promise,
but they botched it. I have not loved SNL since John Belushi died. I was
only watching it last week because Barack was supposed to be on. Then he
wasn't! I felt robbed. Robbed, I tell you.

cybercat wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote
> > but at least you're not suffering under the dreaded 'socialized
medicine'
> > system.
> >
>
> I've got you .... under my skin.


Scabies *is* curable, dear...

:-)


--
Best
Greg

"Omelet" wrote in message
news
> "Mike Pearce" > wrote:
>
>> Who would want to live near shiftless and criminal types? Those
>> kind
>> of folks can be found just about anywhere. New Orleans has no
>> monopoly
>> on scumbags.
>
> ROFL!!!
>
> Thanks for the morning chuckle!
>
> I see you've never been there. I have.

Do you think New Orleans does have a monopoly on scumbags?

How did you like New Orleans when you visited? Where did you eat?

-Mike

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:30:30 -0700 (PDT), John Kane wrote:
>
>> On Sep 16, 1:01 pm, Omelet > wrote:
>>>
>>> I suspect it's coming. My main concern with Socialized health care is
>>> what it's going to cost us.
>>
>> Well if you do it like most of the other OECD countries it should cost
>> you about 50% or less than the current US health "system". Cost per
>> captia in Canada $2,998, cost per capita USA $5,711.
>>
>> http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
>
> stand by for tales of year-long waits for hip replacements and canadians
> coming south for 'good' medical care...
>
> paying more for worse medical care (and higher mortality rates) is a
> god-given right according to opponents of 'socialized medicine.'

>
U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says
Research: 2 million babies die in first 24 hours each year worldwide
By Jeff Green
CNN


http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/paren...mothers.index/

Click on the link half way down and you'll see that Canada comes out ahead
of the USA.

Graham

"Mike Pearce" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Omelet" wrote in message
> news
>> "Mike Pearce" > wrote:
>>
>>> Who would want to live near shiftless and criminal types? Those kind
>>> of folks can be found just about anywhere. New Orleans has no monopoly
>>> on scumbags.
>>
>> ROFL!!!
>>
>> Thanks for the morning chuckle!
>>
>> I see you've never been there. I have.
>
> Do you think New Orleans does have a monopoly on scumbags?
>
> How did you like New Orleans when you visited? Where did you eat?
>
You're addressing a racist, Mike.

Graham > wrote:

>"blake murphy" > wrote in message

>> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:30:30 -0700 (PDT), John Kane wrote:

>>> Well if you do it like most of the other OECD countries it should cost
>>> you about 50% or less than the current US health "system". Cost per
>>> captia in Canada $2,998, cost per capita USA $5,711.

>>> http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

>> stand by for tales of year-long waits for hip replacements and canadians
>> coming south for 'good' medical care...

>> paying more for worse medical care (and higher mortality rates) is a
>> god-given right according to opponents of 'socialized medicine.'

>U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says
>Research: 2 million babies die in first 24 hours each year worldwide
>By Jeff Green
>CNN

I noticed the July issue of the AARP magazine (hardly a
left-communist publication) had an article concluding that in
the U.S., 1/3 or healthcare procedures made the patient worse
off, and another 1/4 were unnecessary.

"Just say no!".

Steve

Omelet wrote:

> I'm a conservative liberal. To me, socialized medicine is not a bad
> thing IF it's administered properly! When it finally comes to pass,
> there is no doubt it'll make my job even more "challenging", but I
> understand the necessity/need of it.


FWIW, I read an article a year or so ago that Canadian auto companies
had an edge on their American counterparts because between the
government run OHIP and supplemental health insurance it was much
cheaper to provide medical coverage to their workers.


> But once again, there is the issue of the abusers. Those who go to the
> ER for every cough, sniffle and scratch. :-(

We have walk in clinics for that. If I can't get an appointment with my
doctor and it's not serious enough to go to ER I can go to a walk in
clinic..... and it costs me nothing.



> That problem already exists. Socializing it will probably exacerbate it.
>
> You think the wait and lines are long now? Since when did
> governmentalizing anything improve it? <sigh>

Wait lists are an issue. It takes longer to get an MRI or CAT scan, but
if it is urgent people are bumped up the line. At least they can still
get the tests, unlike places where they are available only if you have
insurance or the money to pay for it.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Omelet wrote:
>
>> I'm a conservative liberal. To me, socialized medicine is not a bad
>> thing IF it's administered properly! When it finally comes to pass, there
>> is no doubt it'll make my job even more "challenging", but I understand
>> the necessity/need of it.
>
>
> FWIW, I read an article a year or so ago that Canadian auto companies had
> an edge on their American counterparts because between the government run
> OHIP and supplemental health insurance it was much cheaper to provide
> medical coverage to their workers.
>
>
>> But once again, there is the issue of the abusers. Those who go to the ER
>> for every cough, sniffle and scratch. :-(
>
> We have walk in clinics for that. If I can't get an appointment with my
> doctor and it's not serious enough to go to ER I can go to a walk in
> clinic..... and it costs me nothing.
>
>
>
>> That problem already exists. Socializing it will probably exacerbate it.
>>
>> You think the wait and lines are long now? Since when did
>> governmentalizing anything improve it? <sigh>
>
> Wait lists are an issue. It takes longer to get an MRI or CAT scan, but if
> it is urgent people are bumped up the line. At least they can still get
> the tests, unlike places where they are available only if you have
> insurance or the money to pay for it.
>
I remember American journo Diane Francis recounting that as her father had
had back trouble, he couldn't get insurance. Therefore, when he later
developed cancer, he couldn't afford the chemo and died much sooner than he
should have.

There was also an interview with a young Dr working in a hospital in a
large US city. He had a patient in ICU whose insurance ran out and the
insurer ordered him to send her home!!

How many tales do we read or hear of like this?

Graham

Graham wrote:

>> Wait lists are an issue. It takes longer to get an MRI or CAT scan, but if
>> it is urgent people are bumped up the line. At least they can still get
>> the tests, unlike places where they are available only if you have
>> insurance or the money to pay for it.
>>
> I remember American journo Diane Francis recounting that as her father had
> had back trouble, he couldn't get insurance. Therefore, when he later
> developed cancer, he couldn't afford the chemo and died much sooner than he
> should have.
>
> There was also an interview with a young Dr working in a hospital in a
> large US city. He had a patient in ICU whose insurance ran out and the
> insurer ordered him to send her home!!
>
> How many tales do we read or hear of like this?

Yep, we hear horror stories like that all the time from south of the
border. FWIW, my sister in law has just been diagnosed with cancer. My
brother suffers from depression and is on a disability pension. She had
had a numebr of low paying jobs. They could never afford medical
insurance. She went to the doctor a month ago about back pain and got an
MRI which picked up a spot on her liver and was then sent for a
biopsy. It is a cancerous tumor. Worse yet, it is a secondary cancer,
so she was referred to an oncologist and saw him this week. Next week
she goes for a whack of tests to find the primary cancer.

Her health situation really sucks, but it would be a lot worse if they
had to pay for all that. I will try to be optimistic about the outcome,
but it is not going to ruin them financially.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Graham wrote:
>
> Her health situation really sucks, but it would be a lot worse if they had
> to pay for all that. I will try to be optimistic about the outcome, but
> it is not going to ruin them financially.
>
How awful! It must be very worrying. Nothing can prepare you hearing that
from the doctor.
Best wishes
Graham

On Sep 17, 2:02*pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:30:30 -0700 (PDT), John Kane wrote:
> > On Sep 16, 1:01*pm, Omelet > wrote:
>
> >> I suspect it's coming. *My main concern with Socialized health care is
> >> what it's going to cost us.
>
> > Well if you do it like most of the other OECD countries it should cost
> > you about 50% or less than the current US health "system". * Cost per
> > captia in Canada $2,998, cost per capita USA $5,711.
>
> >http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
>
> stand by for tales of year-long waits for hip replacements and canadians
> coming south for 'good' medical care...
>
> paying more for worse medical care (and higher mortality rates) is a
> god-given right according to opponents of 'socialized medicine.'

Mind you, some of the stories about year long waits are true. The
difference is that anyone from billionaire to minimum wage slave gets
them, and with no deducatibles . For urgent problems treatment is
fast. For electives it can be slow.

Canadians don't go south for 'good' medical ca wealthy ones will
for quicker access to care.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

On Sep 17, 5:04*pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Graham > wrote:
> >"blake murphy" > wrote in message
> >> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:30:30 -0700 (PDT), John Kane wrote:
> >>> Well if you do it like most of the other OECD countries it should cost
> >>> you about 50% or less than the current US health "system". * Cost per
> >>> captia in Canada $2,998, cost per capita USA $5,711.
> >>>http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
> >> stand by for tales of year-long waits for hip replacements and canadians
> >> coming south for 'good' medical care...
> >> paying more for worse medical care (and higher mortality rates) is a
> >> god-given right according to opponents of 'socialized medicine.'
> >U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says
> >Research: 2 million babies die in first 24 hours each year worldwide
> >By Jeff Green
> >CNN
>
> I noticed the July issue of the AARP magazine (hardly a
> left-communist publication) had an article concluding that in
> the U.S., 1/3 or healthcare procedures made the patient worse
> off, and another 1/4 were unnecessary.


US doctors are apparently known for 'agressive treatment" of
problems However it is likely that a lot of treatments in the rest
of the world are similar. Medicine is still as much an art as a
science and not all doctors are a Van Gogh.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

On Sep 17, 2:21*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> *blake murphy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:30:30 -0700 (PDT), John Kane wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 16, 1:01*pm, Omelet > wrote:
>
> > >> I suspect it's coming. *My main concern with Socialized health care is
> > >> what it's going to cost us.
>
> > > Well if you do it like most of the other OECD countries it should cost
> > > you about 50% or less than the current US health "system". * Cost per
> > > captia in Canada $2,998, cost per capita USA $5,711.
>
> > >http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
>
> > stand by for tales of year-long waits for hip replacements and canadians
> > coming south for 'good' medical care...
>
> > paying more for worse medical care (and higher mortality rates) is a
> > god-given right according to opponents of 'socialized medicine.'
>
> > your pal,
> > blake
>
> Exactly.
>
> The abusers cause issues for those that really need it.
> That's what has screwed up our welfare system.
>
> Which brings us back to the subject...

What abusers? The suspicion is that the Canadian system actually
saves health costs as aliments get treated earlier and at a less
serious stage than in the USA. I don't remember ever seeing a study
on this, though, just some anecdotes.

I think the Cuban systems has something going for it. Your family
doctor is supposed to see you for a routine checkup twice a year.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

On Sep 17, 2:19*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> *blake murphy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:21:11 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > > Omelet wrote:
>
> > >>>> Heh! Tell me about it! That's what I'm running into right now. Insurance
> > >>>> is not always a good thing. *I'm supposed to see a cardiologist and get
> > >>>> regular physical therapy, but cannot afford it even with insurance! *
> > >>> why not go to the emergency room, since treatment there is so peachy?
>
> > >>> your pal,
> > >>> blake
>
> > >> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians separate
> > >> fee.
>
> > > It is a shame that you don't have government health insurance like we
> > > have in Canada. Everyone is eligible regardless of pre-exisitng
> > > conditions. In Ontario we pay a yearly OHIP fee and employers pay a
> > > health tax per employee. It is also funded through other tax revenues..
> > > It costs me nothing to go to a doctor. It costs me nothing to go to
> > > emergency. It costs nothing for X rays or other tests. Prescriptions
> > > drugs are not covered, but there is supplemental health insurance
> > > available for that. It isn't a perfect system, but people don't face
> > > financial crisis because of medical care.
>
> > yet it's an article of faith among u.s. conservatives that 'socialized
> > medicine' is madness. *go figure.
>
> > your pal,
> > blake
>
> I'm a conservative liberal. *To me, socialized medicine is not a bad
> thing IF it's administered properly! When it finally comes to pass,
> there is no doubt it'll make my job even more "challenging", but I
> understand the necessity/need of it.


I'm not exactly use about your job but "one source payments" may
actually make your job redundent if I understood what you mentioned in
an earlier post in this thread. There is no question of who is
billed for what. In my case if I go to the doctor, I show them my
Ontario Hospital Insurance Program card, and that's all the
administration for my visit. [1]. Hospital visits from the patient's
point of view are the same.

I. I'm sure I'm exagerating a bit but there is no need to work out
what insurance company is paying what, if a deductable amount is owed
and so on.

On Sep 16, 6:29*pm, "kilikini" > wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> > On Tue 16 Sep 2008 11:00:20a, Omelet told us...
>
> >> In article 7>,
> >> *Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> >>>>> why not go to the emergency room, since treatment there is so
> >>>>> peachy?
>
> >>>>> your pal,
> >>>>> blake
>
> >>>> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians
> >>>> separate fee.
>
> >>> That was exactly my plight recently when my b/p suddenly went out of
> >>> control. When I called the cardiologist's office they suggested
> >>> that I go the the ER. *I told them I could afford their $30 co-pay
> >>> but not the ER $100 co-pay. *I got into their office in a couple of
> >>> hours.
>
> >>> --
> >>> * * * * * * *Wayne Boatwright
>
> >> Good doc. ;-)
>
> >> I'm finally on Beta Blockers when mine hit 142 one night. *I went to
> >> work, told my co-worker what was happening and took my first Beta
> >> Blocker, then waited. *Took 3 hours to come down to 100.
>
> >> Now resting is running around 82.
>
> >> It's scary... I think mine was due to an OD of Thyroid Armour generic
> >> tho'. *I've cut the dose and it has not happened since.
> >> Figuring out a proper thyroid med dose can be iffy, and takes weeks.
>
> > Yes, it's scary. *I woke up last Wednesday feeling rather dizzy.
> > Took my b/p and it was 210/105. *I was alsready on 2 b/p meds, so
> > took my usual morning pill along with the one I take at night. *It
> > came down to normal range, so thought it was a fluke. *The next
> > morning it was 195/100. *That's when I called the cardiologist. *He
> > put me on a third medication (each works differently in lowering the
> > presure), and yesterday I went for a kidney ultrasound to rule out
> > any narrowing or blockage of the renal arteries. *That was clear. *I
> > go back on Friday for a followup.
>
> > Figuring out most drug combinations and dosages are often difficult.
>
> My b/p is usually about 117/72 or so. *When I was in the hospital a few
> weeks ago I saw it go as low as 86/64. *I called the nurse in because I was
> like, WHOA! *Am I still alive? *(I went in literally half-dead, I'm not
> kidding. *They had to give me 6 units of blood because I was internally
> bleeding and hemorrhaging.) *The nurse laughed at me and she said I have a
> naturally low, resting b/p. *She said it was good, but she wouldn't want it
> to get any lower. *She told me to watch it and if it gets any lower, call
> her back in. *Luckily, I had to get up to pee shortly after and I was back
> up to normal. *LOL.
>
> kili-

I've heard of professional cyclists ( Tour de France types) with a
resting bp in the low 40's. Apparently it can cause a bit of alarm
whn the cyclist arrives in the hospital.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

John Kane wrote:

On Sep 17, 2:19 pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:21:11 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > > Omelet wrote:
>
> > >>>> Heh! Tell me about it! That's what I'm running into right now.
Insurance
> > >>>> is not always a good thing. I'm supposed to see a cardiologist and
get
> > >>>> regular physical therapy, but cannot afford it even with insurance!
> > >>> why not go to the emergency room, since treatment there is so
peachy?
>
> > >>> your pal,
> > >>> blake
>
> > >> Because the co-pay is $100.00, not to mention the ER physicians
separate
> > >> fee.
>
> > > It is a shame that you don't have government health insurance like we
> > > have in Canada. Everyone is eligible regardless of pre-exisitng
> > > conditions. In Ontario we pay a yearly OHIP fee and employers pay a
> > > health tax per employee. It is also funded through other tax revenues.
> > > It costs me nothing to go to a doctor. It costs me nothing to go to
> > > emergency. It costs nothing for X rays or other tests. Prescriptions
> > > drugs are not covered, but there is supplemental health insurance
> > > available for that. It isn't a perfect system, but people don't face
> > > financial crisis because of medical care.
>
> > yet it's an article of faith among u.s. conservatives that 'socialized
> > medicine' is madness. go figure.
>
> > your pal,
> > blake
>
> I'm a conservative liberal. To me, socialized medicine is not a bad
> thing IF it's administered properly! When it finally comes to pass,
> there is no doubt it'll make my job even more "challenging", but I
> understand the necessity/need of it.


I'm not exactly use about your job but "one source payments" may
actually make your job redundent if I understood what you mentioned in
an earlier post in this thread. There is no question of who is
billed for what. In my case if I go to the doctor, I show them my
Ontario Hospital Insurance Program card, and that's all the
administration for my visit. [1]. Hospital visits from the patient's
point of view are the same.

I. I'm sure I'm exagerating a bit but there is no need to work out
what insurance company is paying what, if a deductable amount is owed
and so on.
---------------------

GM replies:

Here in the states a HUGE amount of the cost of health care is a result of
the overhead in having to deal with hundreds of insurance companies, large
numbers of employees are needed for this Kafka - like bureaucracy...

Some doctors will negotiate a discount if you pay in cash, it saves them the
cost of having to bill an insurance provider, plus which that cash goes
right into the bank...

Decades ago "health insurance" was often simply "hospitalisation insurance",
folks had it to cover the eventuality of major hospitalisation costs.
Doctor visits and prescriptions were often paid out - of - pocket. Costs
for these was reasonable, an average working stiff could afford them. Now
with the morass of various insurance plans, plus increasingly
exotic/expensive/complex medical treatments and nostrums costs have of
course risen to the point where working folks who make a decent living need
increasingly expensive insurance to cover even routine medical care...

And as far as "abuse" goes, it's not just the poor who engage in this.
Affluent people with good health insurance will often get expensive
procedures (MRI's, etc...) and treatments for the most routine and even
silly things...this drives up the cost for everybody.


--
Best
Greg