In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> How do you differentiate between use and abuse of the system?

I think that's the entire basis of this discussion babe. :-(
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> I feel very, very privileged to have low-cost health insurance provided
> to me by my employer.

So do I, and I still can't afford it. ;-)

The health care issue is a whole 'nuther topic. Regulation adds a
considerable expense to it. Since I work in health care, I see it first
hand.

And by the way, no federally subsidized ER (like ours) can refuse basic
and emergency health care to anyone. We care for plenty of homeless in
our ER...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> Of course, you won't define "refuse to work". Are you aware of how
> expensive childcare is? If you're making a thousand dollars a month, and
> half or more goes to childcare, what are you supposed to live on?

That is why work at home programs would be the practical answer to that.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:

> wrote:
> >Yet, there are a lot of women of that generation who are still on
> >welfare, as are their children. Meanwhile, the rest of us went to
> >school, got jobs, found places to live and then had children. What
> >suckers we were. We could have stayed home and let others support us.
> >Instead, we paid higher taxes to look after them and their kids as well
> >as ourselves.
>
> You make it sound like life below the poverty line is a sumptuous
> picnic. Have you ever asked these scores of welfare recipients you know
> to provide you detailed budgets so that you see what their lives are
> really like? Have you ever been to a food bank or gone to an electric or
> phone company in tears because service got cut off? Have you ever had to
> boil water to take a hot shower because the landlord turned off the hot
> water heater? Have you ever seen your children covered in rat bites? I
> suspect not, which means you know nothing about what life on welfare
> actually is. As for your precious tax dollars, I don't see you
> complaining when your taxes are used to fund wars, pay crooked
> representatives or selectively patronize certain art forms over others.
> Yet, when 1% of your taxes go toward the poor, you rant and rave on here
> as though you were being ripped off.
>
> Orlando

Good rant and perspective. Well done.

The cost of our trying to police the world could help a lot of people.
But the cost of Bush's war is a whole 'nuther subject/rant.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

Wayne Boatwright > fnord
5.247:

> On Sun 14 Sep 2008 09:19:40p, Saerah Gray told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright > fnord
>> 5.247:
>>
>>> On Sun 14 Sep 2008 08:56:25p, Saerah Gray told us...
>>>
>>> Saerah, I refuse to discuss this further. We are at an impass.
>>>
>>> Let's get back to food.
>>>
>>> Tonight was burgers grilled with Worcestershire Sauce, granulated
>>> garlic, and cracked black pepper, topped with semi-melted blue
>>> cheese, onion slices, and lettuce. Served with fresh-cut french
>>> fries and sliced tomatoes. Coca Cola cake for dessert.
>>>
>>
>> I made a chicken stir-fry thing with broccoli and mushrooms and an
>> orange-ginger sauce.
>>
>> I also made a chicken pot pie for tomorrow.
>
> Both sound delicious! I'm particularly fond of pot pies!
>

Me too. Especially the leftovers

>> Coca-cola cake sounds interesting
>
> It's rather sweet and rich, but overall a nice cake. It was popular
> in the South as early as the mid-1950s.
>

<snip recipe)

Looks yummy, thanks!
--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Omelet > fnord newsmpomelet-C1DBB6.02224115092008
@news.giganews.com:

> In article > ,
> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>
>> > Don't have babies you cannot support. I know that sounds ruthless,
but
>> > people need to grow the hell up.
>> >
>>
>> Sometimes not being able to support a child happens after that child
is
>> born. A minimum wage job is barely enough to support one adult, let
>> alone an adult and a child. What do you propose for people who are
laid
>> off from their jobs?
>>
>> Unemployment is at 6% right now. Are you proposing that 6% of the
>> population should starve?
>
> No babe I'm not. Support them but also help educate them so they can
> achieve a better paying job. Just throwing money at the problem won't
> fix it.
>
> I feel that _employing_ them is a better answer. Have them do
something
> for the money they get from the govt.

Minimum wage doesn't pay the bills. I am barely paying the bills on 13
an hour; which is twice the federal minimum wage.

I am all for education, but without a *college* education, or a lot of
on-the job training and promotions, (which takes a long time) it's
*very* difficult to find a job that can support a family on one income.
Even a family of two.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Omelet > fnord
news
> In article > ,
> T > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> says...
>> > In article 7>,
>> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > In other words...... your claim that most welfare recipients
>> > > > are actually single white males is absolutely false.
>> > > >
>> > > > http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/myths.html
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Whatever... Maybe it's time we imposed penalties on adult
>> > > welfare recipients and limited the number of children a welfare
>> > > recipient could have to 1, also limiting the benefits they could
>> > > receive. What you can't afford to have, you shouldn't have.
>> > > It's no wonder there are so many children on the welfare rolls.
>> > > One of the things that irritates me most is
>> > > seeing an indigent family or single mother marching into the
>> > > welfare office
>> > > with 8 kids in tow, because most of these people are unemployed
>> > > by choice or lack of even the most rudimentary skills, and have
>> > > no desire to work. With our present system they know they don't
>> > > have to, yet they keep popping
>> > > out kids like it ws a hobby, and they know they'll receive
>> > > additional benefits for each child they have.
>> > >
>> > > There are some who are making every effort to pull themselves up
>> > > by their bootstraps and to work or actively seek employment.
>> > > Unfortunately, they seem to be in the vast minority.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Wayne Boatwright
>> >
>> > The welfare system rewards sloth, and fecundity.
>> >
>> > It needs a serious overhaul.
>> >
>>
>> So tell me since you're the expert, what reforms would you make to
>> the welfare system?
>
> Government work programs. I already stated that.
>
> Give them the welfare they need, but make them work for it.
> It really is that simple...
>
> I believe in helping people, just not in giving them a totally free
> ride. I work hard for the money I make.

So will the government pay for child care under your program, too?

An overhaul of the system is needed, certainly. What kind of jobs are we
going to give these people so that they can get off welfare and make a
living that is enough to support their family?

Except for the three months I took off for maternity leave, and the few
months when I was unemployed a few years ago,(and it's not that I
"wouldn't" work; there were retail and fast-food jobs available, but
most of the places I applied at could not give me a set schedule, which
I needed because I could not afford childcare), I have worked full-time
my entire adult life. Until I was able to get my current job, I had
never made enough money where I could have supported myself and my
daughter on my paycheck alone. Does that make me lazy?

It's more complicated than "have them work for the money". Basically,
you would have these people work for *less* than minimum wage. And
that's not a solution.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Omelet > fnord
news
> In article 7>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> I'm not insinuating anything. I'm *stating* that welfare *abusers*
>> (abusers for any reason) should have either severely limited or no
>> benefits at all.
>
> Welfare ABUSERS are the problem and the issue.
>
> I'll say again, I have no problem with helping people that need help!
> It's those that go out of their way to earn a free living that are the
> entire problem!

You act as if these people get enough money to live comfortably on. That
is not the case.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Omelet > fnord newsmpomelet-D5E9A1.02470215092008
@news.giganews.com:

> In article > ,
> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>
>> How do you differentiate between use and abuse of the system?
>
> I think that's the entire basis of this discussion babe. :-(

My point is, it is hard to differentiate someone who can't find a job
that will pay the bills *and* childcare, and someone who "won't" get a
job.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Omelet > fnord
news
> In article > ,
> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>
>> Of course, you won't define "refuse to work". Are you aware of how
>> expensive childcare is? If you're making a thousand dollars a month,
>> and half or more goes to childcare, what are you supposed to live on?
>
> That is why work at home programs would be the practical answer to
> that.

What kind of work do you suggest they do (for the government, right?) at
home?

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Dave Smith > wrote in
:

> Michel Boucher wrote:
>
>>> *Some* people turn to welfare as a last resort. Meanwhile, there are
>>> lots of people out there who have no problem getting pregnant and
>>> unable to support the children and living on welfare. Then they
>>> demand day care and special education and training programs to get
>>> themselves back into the work force.
>>
>> If they're being asked to go into the work force, they should receive
>> support. All the single mothers I knew who were on welfare in the
>> 80's now have jobs and own houses because as tight-assed as the
>> system was, it also provided support. Obviously someone then had no
>> idea what they were doing, eh?
>
> Yet, there are a lot of women of that generation who are still on
> welfare, as are their children. Meanwhile, the rest of us went to
> school, got jobs, found places to live and then had children. What
> suckers we were. We could have stayed home and let others support us.
> Instead, we paid higher taxes to look after them and their kids as
> well as ourselves.

Your...argument, for want of a better word...merely sounds like sour
grapes.

Being on welfare is not a picnic. I was a recipient of basic income at one
time and having to live on what I got was no help in getting employment, in
fact it was a hindrance.

Employers, being the sharp pinheads they are, don't want to hire a welfare
recipient because precisely of the same mentality which you exhibit here.
Put them to work, yes, but NIMBY.

So until this attitude of (ugly) capitalist entitlement ceases, it is
unlikely that welfare recipients will be fully empowered to find their way,
and, honestly, I believe not everyone should be made to work. But that's
another debate. Me, I have 275 calendare days to go until I retire and yet
I have no animosity towards those whose basic need exceeds their ability.
Why is that, do you think?

Saerah Gray wrote:
>
> The thing is, where do you draw the line? If you have a small child,
> and are on welfare, and cannot support yourself on the minimum wage
> jobs available to you, and certainly would not be able to afford
> childcare even if you could afford shelter and food and clothing,
> what the hell are you supposed to do?

Personally, I think the government should provide free child care in cases
like this. Ultimately, it would probably be a cheaper solution than
welfare. There would be no excuse for parents to stay at home unless they
had a disability preventing them from working. It would have to be a
heavily monitored program, but this would mean employment of child care
workers, pre-school teachers, social workers, psychologists - most of, if
not all, would have to have a college degree. Folks going to school would
help the economy. Providing jobs would stimulate the economy. Facilities
would have to be built, giving jobs back to unemployed construction workers.

I don't know. It's something I've been thinking about for a few years. I
know so many single moms who had to stay at home and go on welfare because
they didn't have family around to watch the children and they couldn't
afford the $400 a week for child care. So, they got HUD housing, food
stamps, welfare and free medical and were able to sustain themselves.

Anyway, I'll continue lurking in this thread now. :~)

kili

On Mon 15 Sep 2008 05:49:56a, kilikini told us...

> Saerah Gray wrote:
>>
>> The thing is, where do you draw the line? If you have a small child,
>> and are on welfare, and cannot support yourself on the minimum wage
>> jobs available to you, and certainly would not be able to afford
>> childcare even if you could afford shelter and food and clothing,
>> what the hell are you supposed to do?
>
> Personally, I think the government should provide free child care in
> cases like this. Ultimately, it would probably be a cheaper solution
> than welfare. There would be no excuse for parents to stay at home
> unless they had a disability preventing them from working. It would
> have to be a heavily monitored program, but this would mean employment
> of child care workers, pre-school teachers, social workers,
> psychologists - most of, if not all, would have to have a college
> degree. Folks going to school would help the economy. Providing jobs
> would stimulate the economy. Facilities would have to be built, giving
> jobs back to unemployed construction workers.

Well thought out, Kili!

> I don't know. It's something I've been thinking about for a few years.
> I know so many single moms who had to stay at home and go on welfare
> because they didn't have family around to watch the children and they
> couldn't afford the $400 a week for child care. So, they got HUD
> housing, food stamps, welfare and free medical and were able to sustain
> themselves.
>
> Anyway, I'll continue lurking in this thread now. :~)
>
> kili
>
>
>



--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 09(IX)/15(XV)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
8wks 18hrs 9mins
*******************************************
Cats must knock over the stacks of CDs.
*******************************************

"kilikini" > fnord
:

> Saerah Gray wrote:
>>
>> The thing is, where do you draw the line? If you have a small child,
>> and are on welfare, and cannot support yourself on the minimum wage
>> jobs available to you, and certainly would not be able to afford
>> childcare even if you could afford shelter and food and clothing,
>> what the hell are you supposed to do?
>
> Personally, I think the government should provide free child care in
> cases like this. Ultimately, it would probably be a cheaper solution
> than welfare. There would be no excuse for parents to stay at home
> unless they had a disability preventing them from working. It would
> have to be a heavily monitored program, but this would mean employment
> of child care workers, pre-school teachers, social workers,
> psychologists - most of, if not all, would have to have a college
> degree. Folks going to school would help the economy. Providing jobs
> would stimulate the economy. Facilities would have to be built,
> giving jobs back to unemployed construction workers.
>
> I don't know. It's something I've been thinking about for a few
> years. I know so many single moms who had to stay at home and go on
> welfare because they didn't have family around to watch the children
> and they couldn't afford the $400 a week for child care. So, they got
> HUD housing, food stamps, welfare and free medical and were able to
> sustain themselves.
>
> Anyway, I'll continue lurking in this thread now. :~)
>

Many states do offer subsidized childcare. The problem is, once you are
making a certain amount above the poverty level, you no longer qualify.
When my ex-husband and I were married, we had to work opposite shifts
because we could not afford childcare, and made too much money to
qualify for the subsidized programs. I don't qualify now. When Ellie is
out of school, I spend about 500 a month on childcare. That's a third of
my take-home pay. If she were not school aged, I wouldn't be able to
make ends meet at all, and would still be living with my mother.

Another problem is that many men do not pay child support for their
children, leaving the burden on the mother, and all too often, the
state.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> Food stamps buy food
>>
>> Not always. They're often illegally exchanged for cash to buy
>> tobacco, alcohol, drugs and junk food. Also, given the high
>> surpluses most farms endure, why is produce so expensive and why do
>> few food banks offer plentiful produce to people whose diets so
>> desperately need it?
>>
>> Orlando
>
> Because they are perishable. The food banks around here mostly pass
> out dry and canned goods. Fresh food is very rare.

Our food bank *only* passes out fresh food! They set up an excellent
program with the grocery stores in this area. The food bank has a truck and
they go around to all the major grocery stores, every day, and pick up
produce, bakery items, dairy items, and meat that's within a day or two of
turning and can't be sold. The food bank is open from 11:30-12:30 every day
and at least 50 people a day get a HUGE box of fresh food. You're allowed
to go once a week and the food lasts a full week; that's how much you get.
Just about everything can be frozen except for produce, of course, so it
doesn't go bad. It's a wonderful program and I wish more food banks would
consider working like this instead of all of this food going to waste in a
dumpster.

kili

"kilikini" > wrote

> I don't know. It's something I've been thinking about for a few years. I
> know so many single moms who had to stay at home and go on welfare because
> they didn't have family around to watch the children and they couldn't
> afford the $400 a week for child care. So, they got HUD housing, food
> stamps, welfare and free medical and were able to sustain themselves.

That's what I was thinking of, and it's another thing addressed
in my state's reforms, they will have no trouble finding day care
help ... all those welfare recipients looking for work, how about
a job at a state run day care facility as a day care worker?

Talk about a built in work force, that would employ a few people.

One thing not mentioned, if you don't have dependents, it's not
easy to get benefits. If you can, I don't know. You lose your
job, you're SOL. I imagine that varies by state, too.

nancy

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> wrote:
>> Food stamps buy food
>
> Not always. They're often illegally exchanged for cash to buy tobacco,
> alcohol, drugs and junk food. Also, given the high surpluses most
> farms endure, why is produce so expensive and why do few food banks
> offer plentiful produce to people whose diets so desperately need it?
>
> Orlando

The actual paper food stamps have been long gone for years, as I recall, and
now there's a credit card called an EBT card (I don't know what EBT means).
AFAIK, you're asked for an I.D. when you use the card to ensure that the
person buying the food is the person the card has been issued to.

kili

On Mon 15 Sep 2008 06:00:07a, Nancy Young told us...

> One thing not mentioned, if you don't have dependents, it's not
> easy to get benefits. If you can, I don't know. You lose your
> job, you're SOL. I imagine that varies by state, too.

That's very true in Arizona. BTDT.

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 09(IX)/15(XV)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
8wks 17hrs 51mins
*******************************************
'It's a running gag.' - Dot
*******************************************

On Mon 15 Sep 2008 06:02:22a, kilikini told us...

> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Food stamps buy food
>>
>> Not always. They're often illegally exchanged for cash to buy tobacco,
>> alcohol, drugs and junk food. Also, given the high surpluses most
>> farms endure, why is produce so expensive and why do few food banks
>> offer plentiful produce to people whose diets so desperately need it?
>>
>> Orlando
>
> The actual paper food stamps have been long gone for years, as I recall,
> and now there's a credit card called an EBT card (I don't know what EBT
> means). AFAIK, you're asked for an I.D. when you use the card to ensure
> that the person buying the food is the person the card has been issued
> to.
>
> kili

They have the cards here in AZ, but I've never seen them ask for an ID.


--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 09(IX)/15(XV)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
8wks 17hrs 50mins
*******************************************
Get all the catnip you can.
*******************************************

On Sep 15, 4:08�am, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> �Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > >Yet, there are a lot of women of that generation who are still on
> > >welfare, as are their children. Meanwhile, the rest of us went to
> > >school, got jobs, found places to live and then had children. �What
> > >suckers we were. We could have stayed home and let others support us.
> > >Instead, we paid higher taxes to look after them and their kids as well
> > >as ourselves.
>
> > You make it sound like life below the poverty line is a sumptuous
> > picnic. Have you ever asked these scores of welfare recipients you know
> > to provide you detailed budgets so that you see what their lives are
> > really like? Have you ever been to a food bank or gone to an electric or
> > phone company in tears because service got cut off? Have you ever had to
> > boil water to take a hot shower because the landlord turned off the hot
> > water heater? Have you ever seen your children covered in rat bites? I
> > suspect not, which means you know nothing about what life on welfare
> > actually is. As for your precious tax dollars, I don't see you
> > complaining when your taxes are used to fund wars, pay crooked
> > representatives or selectively patronize certain art forms over others.
> > Yet, when 1% of your taxes go toward the poor, you rant and rave on here
> > as though you were being ripped off.
>
> > Orlando
>
> Good rant and perspective.

I'll agree it's a rant... but there's no true perspective... where's
the perspective about no account parasite *******s who refuse to work.

> the cost of Bush's war is a whole 'nuther subject/rant.

It's not Bush's war, it's a war Bush inherited from Bubba. In typical
Dem style Bubba didn't do a lick of work, in typical Dem style he
advocated living off the fat of the land, giving nothing back, and
thinking in typical Dem style that work means ****ing around 24/7.

"kilikini" > wrote in message
...
> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Food stamps buy food
>>
>> Not always. They're often illegally exchanged for cash to buy tobacco,
>> alcohol, drugs and junk food. Also, given the high surpluses most
>> farms endure, why is produce so expensive and why do few food banks
>> offer plentiful produce to people whose diets so desperately need it?
>>
>> Orlando
>
> The actual paper food stamps have been long gone for years, as I recall,
> and now there's a credit card called an EBT card (I don't know what EBT
> means). AFAIK, you're asked for an I.D. when you use the card to ensure
> that the person buying the food is the person the card has been issued to.
>
> kili
>
>
I worked as a cashier at our local grocery store. We didn't ask for ID
because there where some people who shopped for those who where on food
stamps and unable to shop for themselves.
*~*

cybercat wrote:
> "Cheryl" > wrote in message
> news
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Another thing that sounds good in theory. You will probably find
>>> that most people that end up strung out on drugs got into them
>>> because they already had too much spare time on their hands. Most
>>> people who are gainfully employed and have other activities on the
>>> side don't have time for getting wasted.
>>>
>>
>> Dave, I'm not trying to isolate your post from the rest of some of
>> what is disgusting me, but I couldn't stay silent anymore. We are
>> the fortunate ones. We may not be rich, but we don't have to steal
>> or sell drugs or resort to crime to survive. Maybe some of us did
>> at one time but have pulled out of it now. Maybe that's why we're
>> angry at those still taking. I prefer to think of it as a loan. No,
>> they might not pay it back. The ones who abuse the system are the
>> ones you think of when the word "welfare" comes up. Not everyone is
>> abusing it. Some are stuck in unfortunate circumstances beyond
>> their control. Some can't get health care through a legitimate job
>> and have kids to think of. Ugh... I'm done. I just got sad reading some
>> of the posts in this
>> thread where most of you posting think people who are poor are that
>> way by choice. And that we're not supposed to help them. We ARE
>> supposed to help them. " ... there but for the grace of God go I
>> ..."
>
> There you go. The response of a human being. Way to go!

I'm reading all this and I'm feeling a little sad and ashamed at what some
folks are saying because I'm on disability. I don't get much a month, but
if I don't receive my monthly disability allowance, I don't get Medicaid -
that's the rule. I can tell Social Security that I don't want their money,
but if I don't take it I can't receive Medicaid. It's kind of silly.

Medicaid is *state*-funded free health care, not *federally*- funded free
health care. It takes a lot of phone calls, paperwork, leg work and time to
finally qualify for it. You've got to get all your doctor records together,
take a psychiatric evaluation, get all your financial statements in order,
taxes, gosh. It was a full-time job to become eligible. I guess they make
it that difficult to weed out the lazy folks and the ones who are out to
abuse the system.

Well, do to the diagnosis of cancer and the radical surgeries I went through
to remove the aggressive tumor, and a more recent emergency surgery a few
weeks ago, I can say thank you to Medicaid because I am still here,
breathing. If I had not qualified for Medicaid, I would definitely have
died by now. I came really close.

So, I don't feel that my receiving medical help is abusing the system. I'm
grateful, very grateful for the help. Besides, I want to stay around for a
few more years at least, to continue to irk my husband. :~)

kili

"*~*" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> "kilikini" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> Food stamps buy food
>>>
>>> Not always. They're often illegally exchanged for cash to buy tobacco,
>>> alcohol, drugs and junk food. Also, given the high surpluses most
>>> farms endure, why is produce so expensive and why do few food banks
>>> offer plentiful produce to people whose diets so desperately need it?
>>>
>>> Orlando
>>
>> The actual paper food stamps have been long gone for years, as I recall,
>> and now there's a credit card called an EBT card (I don't know what EBT
>> means). AFAIK, you're asked for an I.D. when you use the card to ensure
>> that the person buying the food is the person the card has been issued
>> to.
>>
>> kili
>>
>>
> I worked as a cashier at our local grocery store. We didn't ask for ID
> because there where some people who shopped for those who where on food
> stamps and unable to shop for themselves.
> *~*


Good for you.

"Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote

>Only the cruelest, most heartless people in the world would
> punish children for merely being born under adverse circumstances by
> depriving them of the care and education middle and upper class people
> can afford to purchase.
>

Orlando, you're talking to a bunch of mouth-breathing, chest-thumping,
pot-bellied, gun-toting, racist pigs here, for the most part. This thread
has changed the way I think about many of those I used to like or at least
tolerate in this group, and has plumped up my kill file quite nicely.

In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> Minimum wage doesn't pay the bills. I am barely paying the bills on 13
> an hour; which is twice the federal minimum wage.
>
> I am all for education, but without a *college* education, or a lot of
> on-the job training and promotions, (which takes a long time) it's
> *very* difficult to find a job that can support a family on one income.
> Even a family of two.
>
> --
> Saerah
>
> "Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
> - some hillbilly from FL

Sometimes even having a college education is no guarantee of a good
wage... $14.00 per hour should be a living wage for my relatives, but
it's not. Not with today's economy. :-(
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> Omelet > fnord
> news >
> > In article > ,
> > T > wrote:
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> says...
> >> > In article 7>,
> >> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > > In other words...... your claim that most welfare recipients
> >> > > > are actually single white males is absolutely false.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/myths.html
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Whatever... Maybe it's time we imposed penalties on adult
> >> > > welfare recipients and limited the number of children a welfare
> >> > > recipient could have to 1, also limiting the benefits they could
> >> > > receive. What you can't afford to have, you shouldn't have.
> >> > > It's no wonder there are so many children on the welfare rolls.
> >> > > One of the things that irritates me most is
> >> > > seeing an indigent family or single mother marching into the
> >> > > welfare office
> >> > > with 8 kids in tow, because most of these people are unemployed
> >> > > by choice or lack of even the most rudimentary skills, and have
> >> > > no desire to work. With our present system they know they don't
> >> > > have to, yet they keep popping
> >> > > out kids like it ws a hobby, and they know they'll receive
> >> > > additional benefits for each child they have.
> >> > >
> >> > > There are some who are making every effort to pull themselves up
> >> > > by their bootstraps and to work or actively seek employment.
> >> > > Unfortunately, they seem to be in the vast minority.
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Wayne Boatwright
> >> >
> >> > The welfare system rewards sloth, and fecundity.
> >> >
> >> > It needs a serious overhaul.
> >> >
> >>
> >> So tell me since you're the expert, what reforms would you make to
> >> the welfare system?
> >
> > Government work programs. I already stated that.
> >
> > Give them the welfare they need, but make them work for it.
> > It really is that simple...
> >
> > I believe in helping people, just not in giving them a totally free
> > ride. I work hard for the money I make.
>
> So will the government pay for child care under your program, too?

_Home_ work is my idea.
That way they can stay home with the kids.

>
> An overhaul of the system is needed, certainly. What kind of jobs are we
> going to give these people so that they can get off welfare and make a
> living that is enough to support their family?
>
> Except for the three months I took off for maternity leave, and the few
> months when I was unemployed a few years ago,(and it's not that I
> "wouldn't" work; there were retail and fast-food jobs available, but
> most of the places I applied at could not give me a set schedule, which
> I needed because I could not afford childcare), I have worked full-time
> my entire adult life. Until I was able to get my current job, I had
> never made enough money where I could have supported myself and my
> daughter on my paycheck alone. Does that make me lazy?

Of course not. :-) You are not the kind of person I had an issue with.
There are some people that don't _want_ to get off of welfare and some
are generational.

I'm not against helping people in need! How many times do I have to say
that? I have a problem with deliberate freeloaders! There are those
that even feel that welfare recipients should be drug screened...

>
> It's more complicated than "have them work for the money". Basically,
> you would have these people work for *less* than minimum wage. And
> that's not a solution.

Did I ever mention an amount? Is welfare less than minimum wage?
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> Omelet > fnord
> news >
> > In article > ,
> > Saerah Gray > wrote:
> >
> >> Of course, you won't define "refuse to work". Are you aware of how
> >> expensive childcare is? If you're making a thousand dollars a month,
> >> and half or more goes to childcare, what are you supposed to live on?
> >
> > That is why work at home programs would be the practical answer to
> > that.
>
> What kind of work do you suggest they do (for the government, right?) at
> home?

Sewing, clerical work, etc. Now with the internet, even some businesses
have people doing computer work from home.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
"kilikini" > wrote:

> Saerah Gray wrote:
> >
> > The thing is, where do you draw the line? If you have a small child,
> > and are on welfare, and cannot support yourself on the minimum wage
> > jobs available to you, and certainly would not be able to afford
> > childcare even if you could afford shelter and food and clothing,
> > what the hell are you supposed to do?
>
> Personally, I think the government should provide free child care in cases
> like this. Ultimately, it would probably be a cheaper solution than
> welfare. There would be no excuse for parents to stay at home unless they
> had a disability preventing them from working. It would have to be a
> heavily monitored program, but this would mean employment of child care
> workers, pre-school teachers, social workers, psychologists - most of, if
> not all, would have to have a college degree. Folks going to school would
> help the economy. Providing jobs would stimulate the economy. Facilities
> would have to be built, giving jobs back to unemployed construction workers.
>
> I don't know. It's something I've been thinking about for a few years. I
> know so many single moms who had to stay at home and go on welfare because
> they didn't have family around to watch the children and they couldn't
> afford the $400 a week for child care. So, they got HUD housing, food
> stamps, welfare and free medical and were able to sustain themselves.
>
> Anyway, I'll continue lurking in this thread now. :~)
>
> kili

All good thoughts kili. ;-) We already pay taxes for a school system
that babysits kids over 5. <g>
Why not younger?
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
"kilikini" > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>> Food stamps buy food
> >>
> >> Not always. They're often illegally exchanged for cash to buy
> >> tobacco, alcohol, drugs and junk food. Also, given the high
> >> surpluses most farms endure, why is produce so expensive and why do
> >> few food banks offer plentiful produce to people whose diets so
> >> desperately need it?
> >>
> >> Orlando
> >
> > Because they are perishable. The food banks around here mostly pass
> > out dry and canned goods. Fresh food is very rare.
>
> Our food bank *only* passes out fresh food! They set up an excellent
> program with the grocery stores in this area. The food bank has a truck and
> they go around to all the major grocery stores, every day, and pick up
> produce, bakery items, dairy items, and meat that's within a day or two of
> turning and can't be sold. The food bank is open from 11:30-12:30 every day
> and at least 50 people a day get a HUGE box of fresh food. You're allowed
> to go once a week and the food lasts a full week; that's how much you get.
> Just about everything can be frozen except for produce, of course, so it
> doesn't go bad. It's a wonderful program and I wish more food banks would
> consider working like this instead of all of this food going to waste in a
> dumpster.
>
> kili

I just found out I was wrong a few minutes ago. I talked to Lynn' who
goes to the food bank regularly and is trying to get my relatives to go
too. She says you get one or two meats, 2 fresh breads, fruits and
vegetables, canned and dry goods. They have set amounts for your family
size.

She gets what she can and what she cannot use, she shares with others.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "kilikini" > wrote
>
> > I don't know. It's something I've been thinking about for a few years. I
> > know so many single moms who had to stay at home and go on welfare because
> > they didn't have family around to watch the children and they couldn't
> > afford the $400 a week for child care. So, they got HUD housing, food
> > stamps, welfare and free medical and were able to sustain themselves.
>
> That's what I was thinking of, and it's another thing addressed
> in my state's reforms, they will have no trouble finding day care
> help ... all those welfare recipients looking for work, how about
> a job at a state run day care facility as a day care worker?
>
> Talk about a built in work force, that would employ a few people.

Indeed. :-)

>
> One thing not mentioned, if you don't have dependents, it's not
> easy to get benefits. If you can, I don't know. You lose your
> job, you're SOL. I imagine that varies by state, too.
>
> nancy
>
>
That's why we have homeless people. :-(
Not everybody that really NEEDS welfare can get it!
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

Omelet wrote:
> In article > ,
> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>
>> I feel very, very privileged to have low-cost health insurance
>> provided to me by my employer.
>
> So do I, and I still can't afford it. ;-)
>
> The health care issue is a whole 'nuther topic. Regulation adds a
> considerable expense to it. Since I work in health care, I see it
> first hand.
>
> And by the way, no federally subsidized ER (like ours) can refuse
> basic and emergency health care to anyone. We care for plenty of
> homeless in our ER...

What happens in regards to recurring medical treatment? Someone may become
sick and initially go to the ER, but what if the situation is serious and
the individual needs lots of follow-up appointments? How does a person with
no insurance receive that? That was the situation I found myself in. I
initially got help for a private cancer agency, but when it came to multiple
surgeries and the myriad of doctor's appointments, I was stuck. Luckily, I
qualified for Medicaid. I wish it was available to everyone; it certainly
should be. All my tests are covered, all my follow-ups and all my
surgeries. If I had private insurance, most of the tests (partly due to the
frequency of the tests) would probably not be covered.

kili

In article
>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> It's not Bush's war, it's a war Bush inherited from Bubba. In typical
> Dem style Bubba didn't do a lick of work, in typical Dem style he
> advocated living off the fat of the land, giving nothing back, and
> thinking in typical Dem style that work means ****ing around 24/7.

Bush is a Republican...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> One thing not mentioned, if you don't have dependents, it's not
> easy to get benefits. If you can, I don't know. You lose your
> job, you're SOL. I imagine that varies by state, too.
>
> nancy

That's one of the reasons I had so many problems getting Medicaid. I'm
married, no children, and I'm white. Without dependents, it's a much harder
struggle to receive anything; you get scrutinized so much more.

kili

In article >,
"kilikini" > wrote:

> So, I don't feel that my receiving medical help is abusing the system. I'm
> grateful, very grateful for the help. Besides, I want to stay around for a
> few more years at least, to continue to irk my husband. :~)
>
> kili

You are not abusing the system babe. :-)
Even with health insurance thru my employer, I still can't really afford
health care due to the high deductibles and co-pays!

Health care is another really tough subject for everyone sheerly due to
it's high cost.

I'm glad you were able to qualify. <hugs>

Health care due to my current issues are driving my budget into the
ground...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote:

> "Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote
>
> >Only the cruelest, most heartless people in the world would
> > punish children for merely being born under adverse circumstances by
> > depriving them of the care and education middle and upper class people
> > can afford to purchase.
> >
>
> Orlando, you're talking to a bunch of mouth-breathing, chest-thumping,
> pot-bellied, gun-toting, racist pigs here, for the most part. This thread
> has changed the way I think about many of those I used to like or at least
> tolerate in this group, and has plumped up my kill file quite nicely.

Closed mine, open killfile. How typical, and how sad...

I, for one, am always open for an education so appreciate seeing and
hearing others viewpoints. Sometimes it makes me reconsider my position.

sf has sent me some really good stuff by e-mail that gave me a lot to
think about because she knows I keep an open mind.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
"kilikini" > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article > ,
> > Saerah Gray > wrote:
> >
> >> I feel very, very privileged to have low-cost health insurance
> >> provided to me by my employer.
> >
> > So do I, and I still can't afford it. ;-)
> >
> > The health care issue is a whole 'nuther topic. Regulation adds a
> > considerable expense to it. Since I work in health care, I see it
> > first hand.
> >
> > And by the way, no federally subsidized ER (like ours) can refuse
> > basic and emergency health care to anyone. We care for plenty of
> > homeless in our ER...
>
> What happens in regards to recurring medical treatment? Someone may become
> sick and initially go to the ER, but what if the situation is serious and
> the individual needs lots of follow-up appointments?

They keep coming back to the ER usually. We have a lot of "frequent
flyers". I know some of the more compassionate MD's that even do
volunteer work not only here, but third world countries too.

> How does a person with
> no insurance receive that? That was the situation I found myself in. I
> initially got help for a private cancer agency, but when it came to multiple
> surgeries and the myriad of doctor's appointments, I was stuck. Luckily, I
> qualified for Medicaid. I wish it was available to everyone; it certainly
> should be. All my tests are covered, all my follow-ups and all my
> surgeries. If I had private insurance, most of the tests (partly due to the
> frequency of the tests) would probably not be covered.
>
> kili

Heh! Tell me about it! That's what I'm running into right now. Insurance
is not always a good thing. I'm supposed to see a cardiologist and get
regular physical therapy, but cannot afford it even with insurance!
Fortunately, I can do my own therapy routines and our local city
activity center has a swimming pool and a weight room with machines...

and for city residents it's only $80.00 per YEAR! :-)
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

"kilikini" > wrote in message
...
> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> One thing not mentioned, if you don't have dependents, it's not
>> easy to get benefits. If you can, I don't know. You lose your
>> job, you're SOL. I imagine that varies by state, too.
>>
>> nancy
>
> That's one of the reasons I had so many problems getting Medicaid. I'm
> married, no children, and I'm white. Without dependents, it's a much
> harder struggle to receive anything; you get scrutinized so much more.
>

So you are saying that they descriminate against WHITE people, kili??

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "kilikini" > wrote:
>>
>> Our food bank *only* passes out fresh food! They set up an excellent
>> program with the grocery stores in this area. The food bank has a
>> truck and they go around to all the major grocery stores, every day,
>> and pick up produce, bakery items, dairy items, and meat that's
>> within a day or two of turning and can't be sold. The food bank is
>> open from 11:30-12:30 every day and at least 50 people a day get a
>> HUGE box of fresh food. You're allowed to go once a week and the
>> food lasts a full week; that's how much you get. Just about
>> everything can be frozen except for produce, of course, so it
>> doesn't go bad. It's a wonderful program and I wish more food banks
>> would consider working like this instead of all of this food going
>> to waste in a dumpster.
>>
>> kili
>
> I just found out I was wrong a few minutes ago. I talked to Lynn' who
> goes to the food bank regularly and is trying to get my relatives to
> go too. She says you get one or two meats, 2 fresh breads, fruits and
> vegetables, canned and dry goods. They have set amounts for your
> family size.
>
> She gets what she can and what she cannot use, she shares with others.

Ours offers about 5 - 6 different kinds of meat in the box, about 6
different kinds of produce (fruits & veggies), 4 - 5 loaves of healthy,
deli, artisan-style bread, a couple of pies or cakes for a dessert and
various dairy items, like milk, cheese and yogurt. That's just for a family
of 2.

You should look into taking your family. All the volunteers are wonderful
people.

kili

"kilikini" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat wrote:
>> "Cheryl" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Another thing that sounds good in theory. You will probably find
>>>> that most people that end up strung out on drugs got into them
>>>> because they already had too much spare time on their hands. Most
>>>> people who are gainfully employed and have other activities on the
>>>> side don't have time for getting wasted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Dave, I'm not trying to isolate your post from the rest of some of
>>> what is disgusting me, but I couldn't stay silent anymore. We are
>>> the fortunate ones. We may not be rich, but we don't have to steal
>>> or sell drugs or resort to crime to survive. Maybe some of us did
>>> at one time but have pulled out of it now. Maybe that's why we're
>>> angry at those still taking. I prefer to think of it as a loan. No,
>>> they might not pay it back. The ones who abuse the system are the
>>> ones you think of when the word "welfare" comes up. Not everyone is
>>> abusing it. Some are stuck in unfortunate circumstances beyond
>>> their control. Some can't get health care through a legitimate job
>>> and have kids to think of. Ugh... I'm done. I just got sad reading some
>>> of the posts in this
>>> thread where most of you posting think people who are poor are that
>>> way by choice. And that we're not supposed to help them. We ARE
>>> supposed to help them. " ... there but for the grace of God go I
>>> ..."
>>
>> There you go. The response of a human being. Way to go!
>
> I'm reading all this and I'm feeling a little sad and ashamed at what some
> folks are saying because I'm on disability. I don't get much a month, but
> if I don't receive my monthly disability allowance, I don't get Medicaid -
> that's the rule. I can tell Social Security that I don't want their
> money, but if I don't take it I can't receive Medicaid. It's kind of
> silly.

Kili, do not let these bitches bother you. All this petty, mean-spirited,
unkind and ungenerous crap will come back on each and every one of them.
I've never taken any kind of help because I've never needed it, thank God.
No catastrophic illnesses, accidents, etc. I could be as arrogant and
unfeeling as all these *other* assholes (hahaha!) but for some reason I am
not. I've never had anything handed to me, had to work hard for everything
and am still working hard, and yet I begrudge the poor not one cent of my
tax money. I begrudge the ****ing Pentagon a whole bunch, but not the poor,
the addicted, the mentally ill, the old, and the very young.


[snips]

>I can say thank you to Medicaid because I am still here, breathing.

That is what it is there for.

>If I had not qualified for Medicaid, I would definitely have died by now.
>I came really close.
>
> So, I don't feel that my receiving medical help is abusing the system.
> I'm grateful, very grateful for the help. Besides, I want to stay around
> for a few more years at least, to continue to irk my husband. :~)
>

Oh yessss, let's hear it for that. Look him in the eye and say, "I have not
borne any children." (The unspoken part is, "so why am I picking up somebody
else's underwear?)

Michael "Dog3" wrote:
> "kilikini" >
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
>> Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> Food stamps buy food
>>>
>>> Not always. They're often illegally exchanged for cash to buy
>>> tobacco, alcohol, drugs and junk food. Also, given the high
>>> surpluses most farms endure, why is produce so expensive and why do
>>> few food banks offer plentiful produce to people whose diets so
>>> desperately need it?
>>>
>>> Orlando
>>
>> The actual paper food stamps have been long gone for years, as I
>> recall, and now there's a credit card called an EBT card (I don't
>> know what EBT means). AFAIK, you're asked for an I.D. when you use
>> the card to ensure that the person buying the food is the person the
>> card has been issued to.
>
> <raising hand> EBT stands for electronic benefits transfer. I know
> this because I helped a really, REALLY, old lady swipe the card at
> the express lane check out a few months ago. She had real bad
> arthritis and the cashier was being completely indifferent to her
> (pretty damned rude IMO). It has a pin number like your debit or
> credit card IIRC. I looked up EBT when I got home and found out it
> was sort of like a debit card but loaded with food stamp money. I
> presume the card is filled at a certain time every month with
> whatever allotment the person qualifies for.
>
> Michael

Ah, thank you, so now I know! :~)

kili