I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
orchard business in NY would be appalled.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Cindy wrote on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:51:30 -0700:

> Cindy

If you have a good fall day you might consider a trip to Thurmont, MD.
George Bush hangs out there at Camp David which is sometimes not marked
on the maps. It's a pretty area with state parks and there are a lot of
places selling cider, in the sense of unfermented apple juice.

My British upbringing makes me reserve the name for the fermented
version! The bottled cider, some imported, at the liquor stores can be
quite good and would not be totally a waste in cooking.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Cindy Fuller wrote:
> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
> orchard business in NY would be appalled.

I would certainly agree that Delicious is a misnomer for that particular
type of apple. I never did like them as much as other types, and they
are useless for cooking. As for cider, it is usually made with apples
that are a little more tart, and usually from apples that have fallen on
the ground. Apple farmers I know gather the fallen apples for pressing.
The local apple harvest is just starting, and I have not seen any fresh
local cider yet.

On Fri 26 Sep 2008 09:51:30a, Cindy Fuller told us...

> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
> orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>
> Cindy
>

We were always able to get good cider in various forms back in Ohio. Good
cider is hard to find here in AZ, but occasionally I do find it.

Years ago, delicious apples used to be, well, "delicious". I think they
have bred the flavor out of them in an attempt to extend transportation and
shelf life.

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Friday, 09(IX)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
6wks 3dys 13hrs 18mins
*******************************************
Oxymoron: Standard deviation.
*******************************************

Cindy Fuller wrote:

> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
> orchard business in NY would be appalled.

It's still very early Fall. I live in NorCal and the apple harvest is
just starting to get underway. Bob and I enjoy going here when the Fall
colors finally start coming on:

http://www.applehill.com/index.htm

Apple Hill is beautiful drive that is fairly close to where we live. We
always load up on fresh, unpasteurized ciders, juices and fruit. Plus,
there are some wonderful vineyards up there and we do wine tastings and
bring home some delicious wines and ports. Many lovely parks and ponds
to picnic at, too. It's almost time for the drive!

Are any of your farmers markets carrying fresh apple products yet? I've
been seeing apples at our markets, but I don't know where they are being
brought in from. I suppose I could ask when I got to my favorite FM
tomorrow.

Hope you find your apples and cider soon!

--Lin

Cindy Fuller wrote:
> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
> orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>
> Cindy
>

It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA. In a
typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple cider must
be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I have noticed
that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the pasteurized cider.

George said...

> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
>> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
>> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
>> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
>> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
>> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
>> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
>> orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>
> It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA. In a
> typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple cider must
> be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I have noticed
> that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the pasteurized cider.


heh! Hey!! HEY!!!

I didn't get any apple cider this year but last year's cider was delicious
murky brown. Don't recall if it was pasteurized. From Linvilla Orchards,
Media, PA.

I could, if I wasn't diabetic, drink that stuff all day, instead of water!

Upsidedown even!!! Probably.

Andy

George wrote:
> Cindy Fuller wrote:

>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall.
>> WRONG!!!

> It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA.
> In a typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple
> cider must be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I
> have noticed that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the
> pasteurized cider.

Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized, there
was a case where children died/became very sick because some
natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
or whatever.

I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as
I do live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.

nancy

Nancy Young said...

> George wrote:
>> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>
>>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall.
>>> WRONG!!!
>
>> It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA.
>> In a typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple
>> cider must be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I
>> have noticed that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the
>> pasteurized cider.
>
> Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized, there
> was a case where children died/became very sick because some
> natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
> ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
> or whatever.
>
> I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as
> I do live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.
>
> nancy


You can get rare burgers over there? Let's lunch?

Andy

Andy wrote:
> Nancy Young said...

>> Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized,
>> there was a case where children died/became very sick because some
>> natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
>> ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
>> or whatever.
>>
>> I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as
>> I do live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.

> You can get rare burgers over there? Let's lunch?

What, you can't get them over there? Here, once they stopped
laughing, people picked themselves back up off the floor and
ordered their eggs or burgers however they liked. And got them.

nancy

Nancy Young said...

> Andy wrote:
>> Nancy Young said...
>
>>> Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized,
>>> there was a case where children died/became very sick because some
>>> natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
>>> ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
>>> or whatever.
>>>
>>> I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as
>>> I do live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.
>
>> You can get rare burgers over there? Let's lunch?
>
> What, you can't get them over there? Here, once they stopped
> laughing, people picked themselves back up off the floor and
> ordered their eggs or burgers however they liked. And got them.
>
> nancy


nancy,

Nope.

Some Blue state law in effect over here I think, dammit!

TGIF.

Best,

Andy

On Sep 26, 12:11*pm, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> *Cindy *wrote *on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:51:30 -0700:
>
> > Cindy
>
> If you have a good fall day you might consider a trip to Thurmont, MD.
> George Bush hangs out there at Camp David which is sometimes not marked
> on the maps. It's a pretty area with state parks and there are a lot of
> places selling cider, in the sense of unfermented apple juice.
>
> My British upbringing makes me reserve the name for the fermented
> version! The bottled cider, some imported, at the liquor stores can be
> quite good and would not be totally a waste in cooking.
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

I think she meant Washington State, not D.C., no?

N.

"Cindy Fuller" > wrote in message
...
>I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
> orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>
> Cindy

You might want to try hard cider from the booze shop. Magner's (Irish) is
fine as a drink and I imagine would be suitable for cooking.

Felice

Nancy2 wrote on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:19:43 -0700 (PDT):

> On Sep 26, 12:11 pm, "James Silverton" >
> wrote:
>> Cindy wrote on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:51:30 -0700:
>>
> >> Cindy
>>
>> If you have a good fall day you might consider a trip to
>> Thurmont, MD. George Bush hangs out there at Camp David which
>> is sometimes not marked on the maps. It's a pretty area with
>> state parks and there are a lot of places selling cider, in
>> the sense of unfermented apple juice.
>>
>> My British upbringing makes me reserve the name for the
>> fermented version! The bottled cider, some imported, at the
>> liquor stores can be quite good and would not be totally a
>> waste in cooking.
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>>
>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

> I think she meant Washington State, not D.C., no?

Sorry, I think you are right but perhaps a trip the apple orhards might
still help as might cider from the liquor store.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Cindy Fuller wrote:
>
> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
> orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>
> Cindy
>
> --
> C.J. Fuller
>
> Delete the obvious to email me

Very strange. Here in TX, which is not as far as I know a big apple
producer, I see apple cider available in most every grocery store, in
prominence around fall and even in limited supply outside of fall. I saw
it at Central Market a day or two ago, and I'm sure I'll find it when I
hit the local Albertson's in an hour or two.

On Sep 26, 12:46*pm, "Felice" > wrote:
>
> You might want to try hard cider from the booze shop. Magner's (Irish) is
> fine as a drink and I imagine would be suitable for cooking.
>
If I happen to find this Magner's Irish cider what would you think I
might cook with it? Pork chops with a lot of onion, maybe? -aem

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:51:30 -0700, Cindy Fuller
> wrote:

>I live in Washington, apple capital of the US.

Personally, I wouldn't be looking for cider for six more weeks. But,
is wasn't a great year for tomatoes either.

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Andy wrote:
> > Nancy Young said...
>
> >> Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized,
> >> there was a case where children died/became very sick because some
> >> natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
> >> ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
> >> or whatever.
> >>
> >> I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as
> >> I do live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.
>
> > You can get rare burgers over there? Let's lunch?
>
> What, you can't get them over there? Here, once they stopped
> laughing, people picked themselves back up off the floor and
> ordered their eggs or burgers however they liked. And got them.
>
> nancy

That's what happens out here as well No rare burgers allowed, yet my
friends had no trouble getting them. The duty manager came out and
briefly explained the 'dangers' of rare burgers, the friends nodded and
the rare burgers were brought to the table a few minutes later.

Arri London wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:

>> What, you can't get them over there? Here, once they stopped
>> laughing, people picked themselves back up off the floor and
>> ordered their eggs or burgers however they liked. And got them.

> That's what happens out here as well No rare burgers allowed, yet
> my friends had no trouble getting them. The duty manager came out and
> briefly explained the 'dangers' of rare burgers, the friends nodded
> and the rare burgers were brought to the table a few minutes later.

Every once in a while legislators get too big for their britches
and wildly overestimate how much they can control people's
lives.

nancy

Dave Smith wrote:
> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall.
>> WRONG!!! Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at
>> the local grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried
>> that was remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The
>> chops came out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all
>> the orchard owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples
>> (which, in my opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and
>> friends in the orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>
> I would certainly agree that Delicious is a misnomer for that particular
> type of apple. I never did like them as much as other types, and they
> are useless for cooking. As for cider, it is usually made with apples
> that are a little more tart, and usually from apples that have fallen on
> the ground. Apple farmers I know gather the fallen apples for pressing.
> The local apple harvest is just starting, and I have not seen any fresh
> local cider yet.


Fresh cider is tastier/tangy-er after cold or frosty nights.
FWIW, Brussels sprouts from the garden are also noticeably sweeter after
a frost.

gloria p

Lin replied to Cindy:

>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that real
>> sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!! Last
>> night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local grocery to
>> get some cider. The only item the store carried that was remotely close
>> to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came out fine, but it
>> is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard owners here who
>> insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my opinion, are
>> seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the orchard business
>> in NY would be appalled.
<snip>
> http://www.applehill.com/index.htm
>
> Apple Hill is beautiful drive that is fairly close to where we live. We
> always load up on fresh, unpasteurized ciders, juices and fruit. Plus,
> there are some wonderful vineyards up there and we do wine tastings and
> bring home some delicious wines and ports. Many lovely parks and ponds to
> picnic at, too. It's almost time for the drive!

Charming as Apple Hill is, I'd gladly trade it for Pike Place Market. Come
to think of it, Cindy, Pike Place Market is where I'd go looking for fresh
Washington cider, not a run-of-the-mill grocery store. Failing that, I'd try
to find a farmstand which sold it.



Lin also wrote:

> It's still very early Fall.

Ain't THAT the truth!

Bob, looking at the 95-degree forecast for Saturday

Nancy Young wrote:
> George wrote:
>> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>
>>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
>
>> It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA.
>> In a typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple
>> cider must be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I
>> have noticed that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the
>> pasteurized cider.
>
> Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized, there
> was a case where children died/became very sick because some
> natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
> ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
> or whatever.
> I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as I do
> live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.
>
> nancy

I remember the case. They had let cows graze in the orchard and were
picking up and using apples that had dropped.

I get unpasteurized cider from an evil family farm that is near my
friend's house. The orchard is the kids' college fund. They won't sell
unpasteurized to you if they don't know you. They practice safe picking
methods.

Andy wrote:
> George said...
>
>> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall. WRONG!!!
>>> Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local
>>> grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
>>> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The chops came
>>> out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's all the orchard
>>> owners here who insist on growing red delicious apples (which, in my
>>> opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
>>> orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>> It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA. In a
>> typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple cider must
>> be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I have noticed
>> that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the pasteurized cider.
>
>
> heh! Hey!! HEY!!!
>
> I didn't get any apple cider this year but last year's cider was delicious
> murky brown. Don't recall if it was pasteurized. From Linvilla Orchards,
> Media, PA.
>
It can still be murky brown but the heating from the pasteurization
drives off a lot of the aromatics that give it a complex taste. Do a
sample test of pressed cider vs pressed and cooked cider and you will
notice quite a difference.


> I could, if I wasn't diabetic, drink that stuff all day, instead of water!
>
> Upsidedown even!!! Probably.
>
> Andy

George said...

> Andy wrote:
>> George said...
>>
>>> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>>>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>>>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall.
>>>> WRONG!!! Last night I wanted to braise pork chops, so I stopped at
>>>> the local grocery to get some cider. The only item the store carried
>>>> that was remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice. The
>>>> chops came out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me. Perhaps it's
>>>> all the orchard owners here who insist on growing red delicious
>>>> apples (which, in my opinion, are seriously overrated). My relatives
>>>> and friends in the orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>> It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA. In
>>> a typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple cider
>>> must be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I have
>>> noticed that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the
>>> pasteurized cider.
>>
>>
>> heh! Hey!! HEY!!!
>>
>> I didn't get any apple cider this year but last year's cider was
>> delicious murky brown. Don't recall if it was pasteurized. From
>> Linvilla Orchards, Media, PA.
>>
> It can still be murky brown but the heating from the pasteurization
> drives off a lot of the aromatics that give it a complex taste. Do a
> sample test of pressed cider vs pressed and cooked cider and you will
> notice quite a difference.


George,

I'd love to taste the difference. I'll ask the farm hands how they prepare
it.

Probably needs to be day-fresh to do without pasteurization?

Best,

Andy

"Nancy Young" > fnord newsQ9Dk.2$aS.0
@fe089.usenetserver.com:

> George wrote:
>> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>
>>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would think that
>>> real sweet apple cider would be readily available in the fall.
>>> WRONG!!!
>
>> It might even be for the same reason we can't buy real cider in PA.
>> In a typical overreaction the state gov't required that all apple
>> cider must be pasteurized. That really kills a lot of the flavor. I
>> have noticed that most stores don't even seem to bother selling the
>> pasteurized cider.
>
> Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized,
there
> was a case where children died/became very sick because some
> natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
> ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
> or whatever.
>
> I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as
> I do live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.
>
> nancy
>

We can't buy raw milk here in Michigan, and I've gotten hassles about
trying to order things rare at certain restaurants, but I can get
unpasteurized cider at a mill near my home. (Franklin Cider Mill)

I think I'm going to MacGyver some hard cider this year (think unwashed
organic apple from a u-pick for the yeast, and a baloon with holes for
the airlock. ) A friend of mine did this a few years ago and it was
awesome.

But I most certainly would not try to freeze it to make apple jack. that
would be most illegal

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

Dave Smith > wrote in
m:

> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>> I live in Washington, apple capital of the US. One would
>> think that real sweet apple cider would be readily
>> available in the fall. WRONG!!! Last night I wanted to
>> braise pork chops, so I stopped at the local grocery to
>> get some cider. The only item the store carried that was
>> remotely close to cider was "Simply Apple" apple juice.
>> The chops came out fine, but it is a befuddlement to me.
>> Perhaps it's all the orchard owners here who insist on
>> growing red delicious apples (which, in my opinion, are
>> seriously overrated). My relatives and friends in the
>> orchard business in NY would be appalled.
>
> I would certainly agree that Delicious is a misnomer for
> that particular type of apple. I never did like them as
> much as other types, and they are useless for cooking. As
> for cider, it is usually made with apples that are a little
> more tart, and usually from apples that have fallen on the
> ground. Apple farmers I know gather the fallen apples for
> pressing. The local apple harvest is just starting, and I
> have not seen any fresh local cider yet.

uh, no. it is illegal to use 'drops' (fallen apples) for cider
in the US. it has been illegal for at least 4 years now. once
the apples fall, the orchard is not allowed to use them for
any purpose, except maybe animal feed (i get huge bags of
drops free from a local orchard because he can't sell them. he
thinks i feed them to my goats...)
the theory is that drops may have salmonella from bird
droppings. anyone with half a brain would realize they aren't
any more likely to have droppings on them than the apples
still on the trees, *and* regulations already require apples
to be pressed be washed in a bleach solution, but, government
loves to regulate, so no drops allowed for human consumption.
there *is* one bright spot in my state however. there is a
gentleman who makes apple vodka, & *he* has special
dispensation to use drops, as alcohol kills salmonella.
unfortunately he has limited production capacity, so many
orchards are going belly-up from the huge waste of the fallen
apples...


lee <i use the drops for cider. i use it both fresh &
fermented. i don't care what the law says. i'm resposible for
my own health>
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

George > wrote in
:

> It can still be murky brown but the heating from the
> pasteurization drives off a lot of the aromatics that give
> it a complex taste. Do a sample test of pressed cider vs
> pressed and cooked cider and you will notice quite a
> difference.

orchards here (NH) can still sell unpasturized cider but it
has to have a *huge* health warning on the label.
supermarkets don't want unpasturized cider anyway, because it
isn't shelf stable long enough for them. some silly people
don't like fizzy cider
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

Saerah Gray > wrote in
50:

> I think I'm going to MacGyver some hard cider this year
> (think unwashed organic apple from a u-pick for the yeast,
> and a baloon with holes for the airlock. ) A friend of mine
> did this a few years ago and it was awesome.

why not do it right? a little champagne yeast (beer yeast in a
pinch) & a carboy with an airlock. it's not rocket science,
but you do get better results with better inputs, ya know?

> But I most certainly would not try to freeze it to make
> apple jack. that would be most illegal

but if you're not washing the apples, it'd be a lot safer.
lee



--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

enigma wrote:
>
>
> uh, no. it is illegal to use 'drops' (fallen apples) for cider
> in the US. it has been illegal for at least 4 years now. once
> the apples fall, the orchard is not allowed to use them for
> any purpose, except maybe animal feed (i get huge bags of
> drops free from a local orchard because he can't sell them. he
> thinks i feed them to my goats...)


That's a damned shame. The dropped apples are a significant portion of
the orchard production. Even 5% could mean the difference between profit
and loss. However, I may be behind the times on that. It has been
almost 10 years since I had an orchard next to me and even longer before
that a friend of mine was using the drops for cider. I did a bit of
research and it appears that there are a number of contamination issues
with the dropped apples.



> the theory is that drops may have salmonella from bird
> droppings. anyone with half a brain would realize they aren't
> any more likely to have droppings on them than the apples
> still on the trees, *and* regulations already require apples
> to be pressed be washed in a bleach solution, but, government
> loves to regulate, so no drops allowed for human consumption.
> there *is* one bright spot in my state however.

There are some interesting theories around. There is a large wild life
park a few miles from my house and I can understand dogs requiring
leashes so they don't chase the animals, but the stoop and scoop laws
apply. The park is home to hundreds of deer, raccoons, squirrels,
turkeys and other wild animals and there are horse riding trails through
it. They are all crapping to their hearts content so I fail to see how
a little dog crap is going to upset the balance.

There was one article about contaminated apples I came across that
indicated one farm had a problem with e-coli contamination. They were
washing their apples with water from their well. There was a cattle farm
across the road and the bacteria had contaminated their well.


> gentleman who makes apple vodka, & *he* has special
> dispensation to use drops, as alcohol kills salmonella.
> unfortunately he has limited production capacity, so many
> orchards are going belly-up from the huge waste of the fallen
> apples...
>
>
> lee <i use the drops for cider. i use it both fresh &
> fermented. i don't care what the law says. i'm resposible for
> my own health>

If the alcohol in vodka kills the bacteria would the alcohol is hard
cider not do the same? Obviously there is more alcohol in vodka and it
gets boiled in the distillation process, but cider still has significant
alcohol content.

enigma > fnord news:Xns9B2672E2E2550enigmaempirenet@
199.125.85.9:

> Saerah Gray > wrote in
> 50:
>
>> I think I'm going to MacGyver some hard cider this year
>> (think unwashed organic apple from a u-pick for the yeast,
>> and a baloon with holes for the airlock. ) A friend of mine
>> did this a few years ago and it was awesome.
>
> why not do it right? a little champagne yeast (beer yeast in a
> pinch) & a carboy with an airlock. it's not rocket science,
> but you do get better results with better inputs, ya know?
>

Yeah, but I don't have any of those things. Frankly, I would probably
just drink the cider; it doesn't last long around here

>> But I most certainly would not try to freeze it to make
>> apple jack. that would be most illegal
>
> but if you're not washing the apples, it'd be a lot safer.
> lee
>

Washing the apple would remove wild yeast, no?

Of course, I would never distill my own liquor. No siree Bob.



--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:

> Cindy wrote on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:51:30 -0700:
>
> > Cindy
>
> If you have a good fall day you might consider a trip to Thurmont, MD.
> George Bush hangs out there at Camp David which is sometimes not marked
> on the maps. It's a pretty area with state parks and there are a lot of
> places selling cider, in the sense of unfermented apple juice.
>
> My British upbringing makes me reserve the name for the fermented
> version! The bottled cider, some imported, at the liquor stores can be
> quite good and would not be totally a waste in cooking.

Maryland is a touch out of the way for me, since I live in Seattle.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Dave Smith > wrote:

> I would certainly agree that Delicious is a misnomer for that particular
> type of apple. I never did like them as much as other types, and they
> are useless for cooking. As for cider, it is usually made with apples
> that are a little more tart, and usually from apples that have fallen on
> the ground. Apple farmers I know gather the fallen apples for pressing.
> The local apple harvest is just starting, and I have not seen any fresh
> local cider yet.

Sounds like a good recipe for e-coli juice. Trustworthy
manufacturers who aren't trying to skimp don't use fallen apples.

-sw

enigma > wrote:

> uh, no. it is illegal to use 'drops' (fallen apples) for cider
> in the US.

The USDA does not have any laws prohibiting the use of drops for
apple juice production - pasteurized or not.

-sw

George wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:

>>
>> Usually I find it by the produce section. As far as pasteurized, there
>> was a case where children died/became very sick because some
>> natural cider company wound up using apples that had fallen to the
>> ground, therefore picking up salmonella poisoning from deer droppings
>> or whatever.
>> I have no idea if I'm able to buy unpasteurized, I'm assuming no as I
>> do live in the no-runny-eggs rare-burgers state.
>>
>> nancy
>
> I remember the case. They had let cows graze in the orchard and were
> picking up and using apples that had dropped.
>


It was Odwalla. I miss New England's self-pick o9rchards and fresh cider.

If I were cooking a recipe that called for cider and couldn't find any,
I think I would buy some good quality apple juice (Martinelli?) and
simmer it till it concentrated to half the original volume. If that was
too sweet, a dash of cider vinegar might help.

gloria p

George > wrote:

> I remember the case. They had let cows graze in the orchard and were
> picking up and using apples that had dropped.

It was Odwalla. They used manure to fertilize the orchard.

> They won't sell unpasteurized to you if they don't
> know you. They practice safe picking methods.

That's a stupid criteria. Are people they know less likely to get
sick from unpasteurized juice? Do they only want their friends to
get sick?

-sw

Saerah Gray > wrote:

> I think I'm going to MacGyver some hard cider this year (think unwashed
> organic apple from a u-pick for the yeast, and a baloon with holes for
> the airlock. ) A friend of mine did this a few years ago and it was
> awesome.

I never thought about using a balloon. Maybe that would work for my
kimchi, too ;-) That way I could enjoy the smell of it all day long
and tell when it's ready without having to open it.

How do you get a clean hole that won't rip under pressure?

-sw

"Pete C." > wrote:

> Very strange. Here in TX, which is not as far as I know a big apple
> producer, I see apple cider available in most every grocery store, in
> prominence around fall and even in limited supply outside of fall. I saw
> it at Central Market a day or two ago, and I'm sure I'll find it when I
> hit the local Albertson's in an hour or two.

The stuff I see at the HEB's, most are pasteurized - at least last
year they were. Central Market has good juices. I really like
their apple, ginger, lemon stuff. All their juice are
unpasteurized.

-sw

Sqwertz > fnord news:270908.171742rfc1191.319
@sqwertz.com:

> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>
>> I think I'm going to MacGyver some hard cider this year (think
unwashed
>> organic apple from a u-pick for the yeast, and a baloon with holes
for
>> the airlock. ) A friend of mine did this a few years ago and it was
>> awesome.
>
> I never thought about using a balloon. Maybe that would work for my
> kimchi, too ;-) That way I could enjoy the smell of it all day long
> and tell when it's ready without having to open it.
>
> How do you get a clean hole that won't rip under pressure?
>
> -sw
>

My friend used a safety pin. We aren't friends any more, so I can't ask
her; I was thinking of just winging it if I did... or google when the
time comes

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

On Sat 27 Sep 2008 03:24:19p, Saerah Gray told us...

> Sqwertz > fnord news:270908.171742rfc1191.319
> @sqwertz.com:
>
>> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>>
>>> I think I'm going to MacGyver some hard cider this year (think
> unwashed
>>> organic apple from a u-pick for the yeast, and a baloon with holes
> for
>>> the airlock. ) A friend of mine did this a few years ago and it was
>>> awesome.
>>
>> I never thought about using a balloon. Maybe that would work for my
>> kimchi, too ;-) That way I could enjoy the smell of it all day long
>> and tell when it's ready without having to open it.
>>
>> How do you get a clean hole that won't rip under pressure?
>>
>> -sw
>>
>
> My friend used a safety pin. We aren't friends any more, so I can't ask
> her; I was thinking of just winging it if I did... or google when the
> time comes
>

Why, did she prick you with her safety pin?

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Saturday, 09(IX)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
6wks 2dys 8hrs 35mins
*******************************************
The Hemingways are much rarer than the
Prousts; rather than big-game hunters,
writers are more often slightly

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote:
>
> > Very strange. Here in TX, which is not as far as I know a big apple
> > producer, I see apple cider available in most every grocery store, in
> > prominence around fall and even in limited supply outside of fall. I saw
> > it at Central Market a day or two ago, and I'm sure I'll find it when I
> > hit the local Albertson's in an hour or two.
>
> The stuff I see at the HEB's, most are pasteurized - at least last
> year they were. Central Market has good juices. I really like
> their apple, ginger, lemon stuff. All their juice are
> unpasteurized.
>
> -sw

I think the pasteurized is the norm these days, with all the
contamination scares and liability issues. If I recall, back when I was
in CT it became illegal to sell unpasteurized cider shortly after a
contamination problem that sickened quite a few folks.