I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the other
thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater acidity make
it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing a few whole
garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for salad dressing.
I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the vinegar was used, it
could be topped off, or for a special treat, eat the garlic.


--Lia

On Fri 17 Oct 2008 06:57:51a, Julia Altshuler told us...

> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the other
> thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater acidity make
> it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing a few whole
> garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for salad dressing.
> I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the vinegar was used, it
> could be topped off, or for a special treat, eat the garlic.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly safe. Raw,
in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can also be blanched, put in
vinegar, and canned in a BWB.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Friday, 10(X)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 3dys 16hrs 50mins
*******************************************
'Something tells me we're not in
Northern Wisconsin anymore...' -Yakko

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 06:57:51a, Julia Altshuler told us...
>
>> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the
>> other thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater
>> acidity make it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing
>> a few whole garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for
>> salad dressing. I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the
>> vinegar was used, it could be topped off, or for a special treat,
>> eat the garlic.
>>
>>
>> --Lia
>>
>>
>
> Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly safe.
> Raw, in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can also be
> blanched, put in vinegar, and canned in a BWB.

You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)

kili

kilikini wrote:
>
> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)


That's a controversial topic in our house. I'd say it turns blue. Jim
says it turns green. We argue about that all the time.


At one point I researched what the chemical reaction is that makes the
garlic blue. I do remember that it was safe. I don't remember the rest.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> kilikini wrote:
>>
>> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
>
>
> That's a controversial topic in our house. I'd say it turns blue. Jim
> says it turns green. We argue about that all the time.
>
>
> At one point I researched what the chemical reaction is that makes the
> garlic blue. I do remember that it was safe. I don't remember the
> rest.
>
> --Lia

Your knowledge on the color change is as good as mine is. LOL. I know it's
safe too, but it sure is ugly!

kili

On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 06:57:51a, Julia Altshuler told us...
>>
>>> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the
>>> other thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater
>>> acidity make it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing
>>> a few whole garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for
>>> salad dressing. I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the
>>> vinegar was used, it could be topped off, or for a special treat,
>>> eat the garlic.
>>>
>>>
>>> --Lia
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly safe.
>> Raw, in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can also be
>> blanched, put in vinegar, and canned in a BWB.
>
> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
>
> kili
>
>
>

People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Friday, 10(X)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 3dys 14hrs 50mins
*******************************************
A cynic's work is never done.
*******************************************

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?


Jim and I argue over whether garlic turns blue OR green in vinegar. If
your garlic turns neither blue NOR green in acid, we can add to our
argument. I'm always saying that the turquoise jacket is blue. He says
it's green. You'd say it was neither. Welcome to my world.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the other
> thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater acidity make
> it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing a few whole
> garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for salad dressing.
> I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the vinegar was used, it
> could be topped off, or for a special treat, eat the garlic.

What makes garlic-infused oils unsafe is that the oil
cuts off access to the air, which allows anaerobic
bacteria that cause botulism to thrive. Oxygen from
the air has no problem passing through vinegar, so
this can't happen in garlic-infused vinegar.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 06:57:51a, Julia Altshuler told us...
>>>
>>>> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the
>>>> other thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater
>>>> acidity make it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing
>>>> a few whole garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for
>>>> salad dressing. I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the
>>>> vinegar was used, it could be topped off, or for a special treat,
>>>> eat the garlic.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly safe.
>>> Raw, in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can also be
>>> blanched, put in vinegar, and canned in a BWB.
>>
>> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
>>
>> kili
>>
>
> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?

Why has it never happened to you? That is weird!

kili

kilikini wrote:
>
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> > On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...
> >
> >> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly safe.
> >>> Raw, in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can also be
> >>> blanched, put in vinegar, and canned in a BWB.
> >>
> >> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
> >
> > People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?
>
> Why has it never happened to you? That is weird!

Now that I think about it, I've never seen that
happen either, and I've put lots of raw garlic
in vinegar when making pickled mushrooms and
pickled squid, so I should have seen it happen.
But that stuff usually gets eaten within a week.
Over what time span does this greening occur?

Mark Thorson wrote:
> kilikini wrote:
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly safe.
>>>>> Raw, in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can also be
>>>>> blanched, put in vinegar, and canned in a BWB.
>>>> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
>>> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?
>> Why has it never happened to you? That is weird!
>
> Now that I think about it, I've never seen that
> happen either, and I've put lots of raw garlic
> in vinegar when making pickled mushrooms and
> pickled squid, so I should have seen it happen.
> But that stuff usually gets eaten within a week.
> Over what time span does this greening occur?
Original thoughts and ideas:

Garlic is known to contain sulfur compounds which can react with minute
traces of copper to form copper sulfate, a blue or blue-green compound.
The amount of copper needed for this reaction is very small and is
frequently found in normal water supplies. Raw garlic contains an enzyme
that if not inactivated by heating reacts with sulfur (in the garlic)
and copper (from water or utensils) to form blue copper sulfate. The
garlic is still safe to eat.

*

If fresh garlic is picked before it is fully mature and hasn't
been properly dried, it can turn and iridescent blue or green color when
in the presence of an acid. It may be caused by an allinin derivative.
*

A reaction between garlic's natural sulfur content and any copper
in your water supply, or in the cooking utensils your are using (such as
cast iron, tin, or aluminum) can sometimes change the color of garlic.
*

The other sources of copper might be butter, lemon juice, or vinegar.
*

Garlic will also turn green (develop chlorophyll) if exposed to
an temperature change or is exposed to sunlight. Some people say it can
be stored for 32 days at or above 70 - 80° F to prevent greening (but
I'm not yet sure that is true).
*

Are you using table salt instead of kosher or canning salt? That
can cause the garlic to turn blue or green. Table salt contains iodine,
which discolors whatever you're pickling. Use kosher or pickling salt.

*

Different varieties or growing conditions can actually produce
garlic with an excess natural bluish/green pigmentation (anthocyanins*)
made more visible after pickling.

* Any of various water-soluble pigments that impart to flowers
and other plant parts colors ranging from violet and blue to most shades
of red. This pigment is produced after chlorophyll is destroyed due to
environmental changes. This is a variable phenomenon that is more
pronounced for immature garlic but can differ among cloves within a
single head of garlic. If you grow your own garlic, be sure to mature it
at room temperature for a couple of weeks before using it.

Don't worry, greenish-blue color changes aren't harmful and your garlic
is still safe to eat. (unless you see other signs of spoilage).

George Shirley wrote:
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>> kilikini wrote:
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...
>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>> Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly
>>>>>> safe. Raw, in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can
>>>>>> also be blanched, put in vinegar, and canned in a BWB.
>>>>> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
>>>> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?
>>> Why has it never happened to you? That is weird!
>>
>> Now that I think about it, I've never seen that
>> happen either, and I've put lots of raw garlic
>> in vinegar when making pickled mushrooms and
>> pickled squid, so I should have seen it happen.
>> But that stuff usually gets eaten within a week.
>> Over what time span does this greening occur?
> Original thoughts and ideas:
>
> Garlic is known to contain sulfur compounds which can react with
> minute traces of copper to form copper sulfate, a blue or blue-green
> compound. The amount of copper needed for this reaction is very small
> and is frequently found in normal water supplies. Raw garlic contains
> an enzyme that if not inactivated by heating reacts with sulfur (in
> the garlic) and copper (from water or utensils) to form blue copper
> sulfate. The
> garlic is still safe to eat.
>
> *
>
> If fresh garlic is picked before it is fully mature and hasn't
> been properly dried, it can turn and iridescent blue or green color
> when in the presence of an acid. It may be caused by an allinin
> derivative. *
>
> A reaction between garlic's natural sulfur content and any
> copper in your water supply, or in the cooking utensils your are using
> (such
> as cast iron, tin, or aluminum) can sometimes change the color of
> garlic. *
>
> The other sources of copper might be butter, lemon juice, or
> vinegar. *
>
> Garlic will also turn green (develop chlorophyll) if exposed to
> an temperature change or is exposed to sunlight. Some people say it
> can be stored for 32 days at or above 70 - 80° F to prevent greening (but
> I'm not yet sure that is true).
> *
>
> Are you using table salt instead of kosher or canning salt? That
> can cause the garlic to turn blue or green. Table salt contains
> iodine, which discolors whatever you're pickling. Use kosher or
> pickling salt.
> *
>
> Different varieties or growing conditions can actually produce
> garlic with an excess natural bluish/green pigmentation
> (anthocyanins*) made more visible after pickling.
>
> * Any of various water-soluble pigments that impart to flowers
> and other plant parts colors ranging from violet and blue to most
> shades of red. This pigment is produced after chlorophyll is
> destroyed due to environmental changes. This is a variable phenomenon
> that is more pronounced for immature garlic but can differ among
> cloves within a single head of garlic. If you grow your own garlic, be
> sure to mature
> it at room temperature for a couple of weeks before using it.
>
> Don't worry, greenish-blue color changes aren't harmful and your
> garlic is still safe to eat. (unless you see other signs of spoilage).

Wow, thanks, George, that was really informative! (And I mean that
honestly.)

kili

Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> At one point I researched what the chemical reaction is that makes the
> garlic blue. I do remember that it was safe. I don't remember the rest.

See
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/f1dabc3d700da22c>.

Victor

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> Julia Altshuler wrote:
> >
> > I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the other
> > thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater acidity make
> > it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing a few whole
> > garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for salad dressing.
> > I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the vinegar was used, it
> > could be topped off, or for a special treat, eat the garlic.
>
> What makes garlic-infused oils unsafe is that the oil
> cuts off access to the air, which allows anaerobic
> bacteria that cause botulism to thrive. Oxygen from
> the air has no problem passing through vinegar, so
> this can't happen in garlic-infused vinegar.

Mark, Acetic acid is a preservative. Vinegar has a much lower Ph than
oil...
--
Peace! Om

"He who has the gold makes the rules"
--Om

"He who has the guns can get the gold."
-- Steve Rothstein

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:33:36 -0700, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>
>> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the other
>> thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater acidity make
>> it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing a few whole
>> garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for salad dressing.
>> I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the vinegar was used, it
>> could be topped off, or for a special treat, eat the garlic.
>
>What makes garlic-infused oils unsafe is that the oil
>cuts off access to the air, which allows anaerobic
>bacteria that cause botulism to thrive. Oxygen from
>the air has no problem passing through vinegar, so
>this can't happen in garlic-infused vinegar.

The other factor is acidity. The pH of vinegar (or even a tested
water/vinegar mix) will also cause the spores to stay dormant
regardless of the presence of oxygen. The guidelines say a pH 4.6 or
lower will do it. If you accept Wikipedia as a trusted source,
vinegar runs between pH 2.4 and 3.4 depending on the kind of vinegar.

- Mark

On Fri 17 Oct 2008 09:59:56a, Julia Altshuler told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?
>
>
> Jim and I argue over whether garlic turns blue OR green in vinegar. If
> your garlic turns neither blue NOR green in acid, we can add to our
> argument. I'm always saying that the turquoise jacket is blue. He says
> it's green. You'd say it was neither. Welcome to my world.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

lol!

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Friday, 10(X)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
3wks 3dys 8hrs 13mins
*******************************************
Upgrade: take old bugs out, put new
ones in.

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> > What makes garlic-infused oils unsafe is that the oil
> > cuts off access to the air, which allows anaerobic
> > bacteria that cause botulism to thrive. Oxygen from
> > the air has no problem passing through vinegar, so
> > this can't happen in garlic-infused vinegar.
>
> Mark, Acetic acid is a preservative. Vinegar has a much lower
> Ph than oil...

That's irrelevant to the botulism question. If you
put garlic in plain water with access to the air,
there would be no botulism risk.

In article >,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...

> > You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)

> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?

You could always add green food coloring.

:-)

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

kilikini wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>> kilikini wrote:
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>> Essentially, you have made garlic pickles, which are perfectly
>>>>>>> safe. Raw, in vinegar, stored in the fridge is fine. They can
>>>>>>> also be blanched, put in vinegar, and canned in a BWB.
>>>>>> You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
>>>>> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?
>>>> Why has it never happened to you? That is weird!
>>> Now that I think about it, I've never seen that
>>> happen either, and I've put lots of raw garlic
>>> in vinegar when making pickled mushrooms and
>>> pickled squid, so I should have seen it happen.
>>> But that stuff usually gets eaten within a week.
>>> Over what time span does this greening occur?
>> Original thoughts and ideas:
>>
>> Garlic is known to contain sulfur compounds which can react with
>> minute traces of copper to form copper sulfate, a blue or blue-green
>> compound. The amount of copper needed for this reaction is very small
>> and is frequently found in normal water supplies. Raw garlic contains
>> an enzyme that if not inactivated by heating reacts with sulfur (in
>> the garlic) and copper (from water or utensils) to form blue copper
>> sulfate. The
>> garlic is still safe to eat.
>>
>> *
>>
>> If fresh garlic is picked before it is fully mature and hasn't
>> been properly dried, it can turn and iridescent blue or green color
>> when in the presence of an acid. It may be caused by an allinin
>> derivative. *
>>
>> A reaction between garlic's natural sulfur content and any
>> copper in your water supply, or in the cooking utensils your are using
>> (such
>> as cast iron, tin, or aluminum) can sometimes change the color of
>> garlic. *
>>
>> The other sources of copper might be butter, lemon juice, or
>> vinegar. *
>>
>> Garlic will also turn green (develop chlorophyll) if exposed to
>> an temperature change or is exposed to sunlight. Some people say it
>> can be stored for 32 days at or above 70 - 80° F to prevent greening (but
>> I'm not yet sure that is true).
>> *
>>
>> Are you using table salt instead of kosher or canning salt? That
>> can cause the garlic to turn blue or green. Table salt contains
>> iodine, which discolors whatever you're pickling. Use kosher or
>> pickling salt.
>> *
>>
>> Different varieties or growing conditions can actually produce
>> garlic with an excess natural bluish/green pigmentation
>> (anthocyanins*) made more visible after pickling.
>>
>> * Any of various water-soluble pigments that impart to flowers
>> and other plant parts colors ranging from violet and blue to most
>> shades of red. This pigment is produced after chlorophyll is
>> destroyed due to environmental changes. This is a variable phenomenon
>> that is more pronounced for immature garlic but can differ among
>> cloves within a single head of garlic. If you grow your own garlic, be
>> sure to mature
>> it at room temperature for a couple of weeks before using it.
>>
>> Don't worry, greenish-blue color changes aren't harmful and your
>> garlic is still safe to eat. (unless you see other signs of spoilage).
>
> Wow, thanks, George, that was really informative! (And I mean that
> honestly.)
>
> kili
>
>
Google is your friend Kili.

In article >,
Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >
> > People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?
>
>
> Jim and I argue over whether garlic turns blue OR green in vinegar. If
> your garlic turns neither blue NOR green in acid, we can add to our
> argument. I'm always saying that the turquoise jacket is blue. He says
> it's green. You'd say it was neither. Welcome to my world.

I shared an office with a woman at work for five years. Her husband was
really stupid. His parents told him that all the time. Not good for
his self-esteem. It was especially bad in high school. Just over and
over again, they reminded him of just how stupid he was. He was a
straight A student. But he was really stupid. They knew it because he
never learned his colors.

I told my wife this story. It took her about half a second to say, "he
must have been color blind". Yeah, so who was stupid? His wife had to
pick out his clothes for him. If he did it himself, she sometimes had
to march him back into the bedroom and she would pick out new clothes.

Have you both been checked for color blindness? I would suggest doing
it. I don't know how, but I bet Google does. You just look at patterns
of dots. If you see a number in there, then you are OK for that color.
If you just see dots, then that means you can't tell the dots that make
up the number from the ones in the background. You have to look at
several of these to check all the colors. If you find a problem, then
you can just live with it (but know what is going on) or see an eye
doctor. I have no idea whether every eye doctor does this, or you need
to see somebody special. You could ask when you make the appointment.
Most male color blindness is genetic. I don't believe anything can be
done, but I really don't know.

I went to a science museum long ago. They had some charts up. I was
color blind for one color in one eye. I already knew I had a problem in
that eye, and that I would be having surgery, which would correct the
color problem as well as the blurry image and the dimness. Sure enough,
all three problems were corrected after the surgery. I developed the
same problems in the other eye five years later and had the same
surgery. I hope I'm done with eye surgery, but I don't know.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Dan Abel" wrote

> Have you both been checked for color blindness? I would suggest doing
> it. I don't know how, but I bet Google does. You just look at patterns
> of dots. If you see a number in there, then you are OK for that color.
> If you just see dots, then that means you can't tell the dots that make
> up the number from the ones in the background. You have to look at

Some of us have such good color vision, we can see several numbers and have
to pick which we think they were aiming at. (normally 1 is predominant).

> several of these to check all the colors. If you find a problem, then
> you can just live with it (but know what is going on) or see an eye
> doctor. I have no idea whether every eye doctor does this, or you need
> to see somebody special.

Whyt bother? It's genetic and they cant fix it.

> Most male color blindness is genetic. I don't believe anything can be
> done, but I really don't know.

Color blindness is genetic. As it's carried only on the leg of the missing
Y (vs X), males show it more often. Basically guys get only 1 gene for this
and if it's defective, thats it. It's recessive so women only have it if
both genes are bad (having 2 X's).

> color problem as well as the blurry image and the dimness. Sure enough,
> all three problems were corrected after the surgery. I developed the
> same problems in the other eye five years later and had the same
> surgery. I hope I'm done with eye surgery, but I don't know.

Dunno about this one. Must have been something else. The real thing, is
not correctable.

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Mark Thorson > wrote:
> > >
> > > What makes garlic-infused oils unsafe is that the oil
> > > cuts off access to the air, which allows anaerobic
> > > bacteria that cause botulism to thrive. Oxygen from
> > > the air has no problem passing through vinegar, so
> > > this can't happen in garlic-infused vinegar.
> >
> > Mark, Acetic acid is a preservative. Vinegar has a much lower
> > Ph than oil...
>
> That's irrelevant to the botulism question. If you
> put garlic in plain water with access to the air,
> there would be no botulism risk.

Try leaving fresh garlic in water at room temp and see what happens to
it. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"He who has the gold makes the rules"
--Om

"He who has the guns can get the gold."
-- Steve Rothstein

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> > Omelet wrote:
> > >
> > > In article >,
> > > Mark Thorson > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What makes garlic-infused oils unsafe is that the oil
> > > > cuts off access to the air, which allows anaerobic
> > > > bacteria that cause botulism to thrive. Oxygen from
> > > > the air has no problem passing through vinegar, so
> > > > this can't happen in garlic-infused vinegar.
> > >
> > > Mark, Acetic acid is a preservative. Vinegar has a much lower
> > > Ph than oil...
> >
> > That's irrelevant to the botulism question. If you
> > put garlic in plain water with access to the air,
> > there would be no botulism risk.
>
> Try leaving fresh garlic in water at room temp and see what
> happens to it. <g>

I'm not saying it won't grow yeast, mold, etc.

But it won't grow the bacterium which causes botulism.

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> "Dan Abel" wrote

> Whyt bother? It's genetic and they cant fix it.
>
> > Most male color blindness is genetic. I don't believe anything can be
> > done, but I really don't know.
>
> Color blindness is genetic. As it's carried only on the leg of the missing
> Y (vs X), males show it more often. Basically guys get only 1 gene for this
> and if it's defective, thats it. It's recessive so women only have it if
> both genes are bad (having 2 X's).
>
> > color problem as well as the blurry image and the dimness. Sure enough,
> > all three problems were corrected after the surgery. I developed the
> > same problems in the other eye five years later and had the same
> > surgery. I hope I'm done with eye surgery, but I don't know.
>
> Dunno about this one. Must have been something else. The real thing, is
> not correctable.

Must have been something else? How can you say that? What do you mean?
Are you saying I wasn't color blind? That it wasn't "the real thing"?
I was color blind in one eye for one color. It's true that it wasn't a
problem with my retina. It was a problem with the crystalline lens in
my eye. It is often an effect of cataract. Lots of people get
cataract. They do a million cataract surgeries a year in the US.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Fri 17 Oct 2008 05:04:29p, Dan Abel told us...

> In article >,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> On Fri 17 Oct 2008 07:21:22a, kilikini told us...
>
>> > You forgot to mention that the garlic turns green. :~)
>
>> People keep saying that, but it never has for me. Odd, huh?
>
> You could always add green food coloring.
>
>:-)
>

Maybe for Christmas. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Friday, 10(X)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
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Countdown till Veteran's Day
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Terraform Mars? Why not terraform the
Earth?

Julia Altshuler > wrote in
:

> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the other
> thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater acidity make
> it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing a few whole
> garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for salad dressing.
> I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the vinegar was used, it
> could be topped off, or for a special treat, eat the garlic.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>



http://www.foodscience.afisc.csiro.au/oilvine.htm



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

PeterLucas wrote:
> Julia Altshuler > wrote in
> :
>
>> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the
>> other thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater
>> acidity make it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing
>> a few whole garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for
>> salad dressing. I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the
>> vinegar was used, it could be topped off, or for a special treat,
>> eat the garlic.

Oh yes I keep a lot of herbs and things in vinegar. It looks pretty too.
I pick (for example) a few sprigs of rosemary, stick them in a jar and pour
hot vinegar over them. After a month or two, when the rosemary is looking a
bit wimpy, I take it out and replace it with fresh sprigs.

"Ophelia" > wrote in
:

> PeterLucas wrote:
>> Julia Altshuler > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the
>>> other thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater
>>> acidity make it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing
>>> a few whole garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for
>>> salad dressing. I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the
>>> vinegar was used, it could be topped off, or for a special treat,
>>> eat the garlic.
>
> Oh yes I keep a lot of herbs and things in vinegar. It looks
> pretty too. I pick (for example) a few sprigs of rosemary, stick them
> in a jar and pour hot vinegar over them. After a month or two, when
> the rosemary is looking a bit wimpy, I take it out and replace it with
> fresh sprigs.
>
>
>


I've been doing my own flavoured vinegar for a long time. Garlic, a
couple of chillis and any fresh herbs I have laying around. Whack them
all in a bottle and pour over cold vinegar and leave it in the cupboard
for a month or so.

Lovely over fish and chips.



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

Dan Abel wrote:
>
> Have you both been checked for color blindness?


I got interested in color perception and color blindness from a
different angle. The topic comes up frequently in art and art quilting
groups. I learned that cataracts can affect color perception, but the
term "color blindness" generally refers to the inherited sort. I
learned that red/green color blindness is the most common, but there are
lots of other sorts including blue/green. There's also a rare type in
which no color is perceived. Oliver Sacks wrote about it.


But I'm not sure any of that is relevant to Jim's and my argument. Take
an ordinary color wheel. First fill in red, blue, and yellow equal
distances around the wheel. Now fill in purple, green, and orange in
their appropriate places between the red, blue and yellow. Now let's
say there are 12 spaces between the green and blue for varying shades of
blue-green, and green-blue. For the sake of this experiment, take the
12 colors between the blue and the green, put them on cards and shuffle
the cards. Show the cards to me and Jim, and tell us that we must say
that each card is either green or blue. We're not allowed to use terms
like turquoise or teal. In my world, most of the cards would be blue.
In his world, most of the cards would be green.


I don't think that means that either of us has green/blue
colorblindness. I think it means that we have different names for the
same thing. On the other hand, the next time either of us needs a
prescription for new glasses, I might ask the doctor to bring out the
color blindness test, the one you referred to with the number hidden in
the spots.


--Lia

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:05:07 -0700, Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> "cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> "Dan Abel" wrote
>
>> Whyt bother? It's genetic and they cant fix it.
>>
>>> Most male color blindness is genetic. I don't believe anything can be
>>> done, but I really don't know.
>>
>> Color blindness is genetic. As it's carried only on the leg of the missing
>> Y (vs X), males show it more often. Basically guys get only 1 gene for this
>> and if it's defective, thats it. It's recessive so women only have it if
>> both genes are bad (having 2 X's).
>>
>>> color problem as well as the blurry image and the dimness. Sure enough,
>>> all three problems were corrected after the surgery. I developed the
>>> same problems in the other eye five years later and had the same
>>> surgery. I hope I'm done with eye surgery, but I don't know.
>>
>> Dunno about this one. Must have been something else. The real thing, is
>> not correctable.
>
> Must have been something else? How can you say that? What do you mean?
> Are you saying I wasn't color blind? That it wasn't "the real thing"?
> I was color blind in one eye for one color. It's true that it wasn't a
> problem with my retina. It was a problem with the crystalline lens in
> my eye. It is often an effect of cataract. Lots of people get
> cataract. They do a million cataract surgeries a year in the US.

it's interesting, i had never heard of a surgical correction for color
blindness. i suppose it must have causes other than genetics.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:29:56 -0400, Mark A.Meggs wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:33:36 -0700, Mark Thorson >
> wrote:
>
>>Julia Altshuler wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been reading about the dangers of garlic in olive oil in the other
>>> thread. What about garlic in vinegar? Would the greater acidity make
>>> it safe? It's been years, but I used to love throwing a few whole
>>> garlic cloves into a bottle of vinegar and using it for salad dressing.
>>> I did keep it in the refrigerator. When the vinegar was used, it
>>> could be topped off, or for a special treat, eat the garlic.
>>
>>What makes garlic-infused oils unsafe is that the oil
>>cuts off access to the air, which allows anaerobic
>>bacteria that cause botulism to thrive. Oxygen from
>>the air has no problem passing through vinegar, so
>>this can't happen in garlic-infused vinegar.
>
> The other factor is acidity. The pH of vinegar (or even a tested
> water/vinegar mix) will also cause the spores to stay dormant
> regardless of the presence of oxygen. The guidelines say a pH 4.6 or
> lower will do it. If you accept Wikipedia as a trusted source,
> vinegar runs between pH 2.4 and 3.4 depending on the kind of vinegar.
>
> - Mark

i think mark is correct, that acidity has nothing to do with it. anaerobes
cannot grow in the presence of oxygen.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy"
ha scritto nel messaggio
Mark A.Meggs wrote:
>> The other factor is acidity. The pH of vinegar (or even a tested
>> water/vinegar mix) will also cause the spores to stay dormant
>> regardless of the presence of oxygen. The guidelines say a pH 4.6 or>>
>> lower will do it. If you accept Wikipedia as a trusted source,
>> vinegar runs between pH 2.4 and 3.4 depending on the kind of vinegar.
>>
>> - Mark
>
> i think mark is correct, that acidity has nothing to do with it.
> anaerobes
> cannot grow in the presence of oxygen.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Properly acidified, garlic, peppers and other problematic items can safely
be preserved under oil. There are shelves of such products.

In article >,
Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:
> >
> > Have you both been checked for color blindness?

> same thing. On the other hand, the next time either of us needs a
> prescription for new glasses, I might ask the doctor to bring out the
> color blindness test, the one you referred to with the number hidden in
> the spots.

If you Google for "color blindess", some of these tests are online, or
you can buy the tests. I didn't look at any of these since they don't
apply to me anymore.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:51:50 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>Properly acidified, garlic, peppers and other problematic items can safely
>be preserved under oil. There are shelves of such products.
>
How do we do that at home?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

"sf" > ha scritto nel messaggio
+0200, "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>>Properly acidified, garlic, peppers and other problematic items can safely
>>be preserved under oil. There are shelves of such products.
>>
> How do we do that at home?
>
Italian culinary magazines will tell you how, but the USDA attitude seems to
be it is still chancy if you are not exacr, so they don't even approach the
subject. In general, the items are simmered in (spiced) vinegars for a
ceryain periiod, then drained and packed tightly in sterile jars covered
with oil. Like marinated artichoke hearts.

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:51:50 +0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>
>> Properly acidified, garlic, peppers and other problematic items can safely
>> be preserved under oil. There are shelves of such products.
>>
> How do we do that at home?
>
>
Buy several million dollars worth of specialty equipment.

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:05:07 -0700, Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "cshenk" > wrote:

> >> Dunno about this one. Must have been something else. The real thing, is
> >> not correctable.
> >
> > Must have been something else? How can you say that? What do you mean?
> > Are you saying I wasn't color blind? That it wasn't "the real thing"?
> > I was color blind in one eye for one color. It's true that it wasn't a
> > problem with my retina. It was a problem with the crystalline lens in
> > my eye. It is often an effect of cataract. Lots of people get
> > cataract. They do a million cataract surgeries a year in the US.
>
> it's interesting, i had never heard of a surgical correction for color
> blindness. i suppose it must have causes other than genetics.

To put it simply, it was not directly related to genetics. The
explanation is above, but I don't expect that it made much sense.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Julia Altshuler > wrote in
:

> Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>> Have you both been checked for color blindness?
>
>
> I got interested in color perception and color blindness from a
> different angle. The topic comes up frequently in art and art quilting
> groups. I learned that cataracts can affect color perception, but the
> term "color blindness" generally refers to the inherited sort. I
> learned that red/green color blindness is the most common, but there are
> lots of other sorts including blue/green. There's also a rare type in
> which no color is perceived. Oliver Sacks wrote about it.
>
>
> But I'm not sure any of that is relevant to Jim's and my argument. Take
> an ordinary color wheel. First fill in red, blue, and yellow equal
> distances around the wheel. Now fill in purple, green, and orange in
> their appropriate places between the red, blue and yellow. Now let's
> say there are 12 spaces between the green and blue for varying shades of
> blue-green, and green-blue. For the sake of this experiment, take the
> 12 colors between the blue and the green, put them on cards and shuffle
> the cards. Show the cards to me and Jim, and tell us that we must say
> that each card is either green or blue. We're not allowed to use terms
> like turquoise or teal. In my world, most of the cards would be blue.
> In his world, most of the cards would be green.
>
>
> I don't think that means that either of us has green/blue
> colorblindness. I think it means that we have different names for the
> same thing. On the other hand, the next time either of us needs a
> prescription for new glasses, I might ask the doctor to bring out the
> color blindness test, the one you referred to with the number hidden in
> the spots.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

This is a gender thing...real manly men say things like that's blue...But
women say stuff like ocean blue, sky blue, aquamarine blue, dark blue,
robin's egg blue and the list is endless.

According to a computer there are 256,000 plus shades of any color.

In fact they can use satilites to determine when wheat fields will ripen
due to the colour, this is also used to determine whether it is a good or
bad crop year.

--

The beet goes on -Alan

On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:38:06 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:51:50 +0200, "Giusi" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Properly acidified, garlic, peppers and other problematic items can safely
>>> be preserved under oil. There are shelves of such products.
>>>
>> How do we do that at home?
>>
>>
>Buy several million dollars worth of specialty equipment.

I was afraid of that, but it would be nice to make my own garlic
infused OO w/o ruining perfectly good OO. I found the garlic started
decomposing immediately and clouded the OO literally overnight. I
tried that exactly once.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

sf wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:38:06 -0500, George Shirley
> > wrote:
>
>
>>sf wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:51:50 +0200, "Giusi" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Properly acidified, garlic, peppers and other problematic items can safely
>>>>be preserved under oil. There are shelves of such products.
>>>>
>>>
>>>How do we do that at home?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Buy several million dollars worth of specialty equipment.
>
>
> I was afraid of that, but it would be nice to make my own garlic
> infused OO w/o ruining perfectly good OO. I found the garlic started
> decomposing immediately and clouded the OO literally overnight. I
> tried that exactly once.
>
>

Old garlic? You don't keep it in the refrigerator do you? I have found
that alone will turn oo cloudy. I make up small quantities of garlic
butter with no problem, and have kept crushed garlic in oil in the past
in a small jar in a cool dark place but not in the fridge without
problem but as i add garlic to just about every thing i didn't find
much use for a garlic infused oil.

I put crushed garlic in my vinaigrette & rub my wooden salad bowels with it.

Im trying to think of a use for uncooked OO that would benefit from an
infusion of garlic ..... i suppose scrambled eggs? ... i make a cheddar
cheese bread but add crushed garlic & oregano to it rather than garlic
to any oil. Same with corn bread, i add crushed garlic to batter rather
than the oil.
--
JL