Christine Dabney wrote:

> Hey, just try it one time...LOL
>
> Do a comparison, the next time you want to brine something. Yes,
> regular brining produces a result you like. This might produce
> something even better..but ya never know til ya try it.

If I go ahead and get a fresh bird after Thanksgiving, I'd be willing to
give it a go.

Have you tried the dry brine with pork or beef?

--Lin

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>> > You folks that are rejecting a new (actually old) type of brining..try
>> > it before you condemn it. You might find you actually like it.
>> >
>>
>> I don't see anyone condemning it. It's bound to be good. It's just that
>> if
>> you have a known quantity and you plan to cook for others, it is a bit
>> intimidating to try something completely new for a dinner party. I
>> prefer
>> to experiment first then make it for others.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Considering the fact that most grocery store turkeys available nowadays
> are pre-brined from the store, I've never seen the point in doing it.
> Doesn't it make it too salty?


I always buy fresh birds. Many frozen turkeys are injected with basting
fluid.

Paul

cybercat wrote:

> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Heya folks,
> > And I am a big proponent of pre-salting
> > vs. brining, so I am teaching her to do that as well. Even Harold
> > McGee is against brining these days. I am sending Meghan this post
> > about pre-salting:
> > http://www.atlantacuisine.com/cgi-bi...m=1163714672/5
> > It is part of a thread, but the first post has the info about the
> > technique.
> >
>
> It's unbelievable how people overcomplicate simple tasks. Excellent cooks
> have been browning turkeys at 450 F for the first 15 minutes then covering
> and roasting at 350 F for 20 minutes a pound for generations. It's nothing
> new to cover a roasting bird. It does not need to be called "steaming."
And
> brining is absurd. It is unnecessary as long as one seasons the cavity and
> the skin, and places quartered onions and rosemary or sage inside the
> cavity.


The cybertwot never misses an opportunity to be a bitch...

:-)


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "James Silverton" > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:10 -0600:
>>
>> >> I would be interested in hearing about your results. That
>> >> is..if you can let yourself be objective in this. I can see
>> >> (at least from my perspective) that it is hard to give up
>> >> a tried and true result, to try something new and be
>> >> objective about the results. At least for me (sometimes) I
>> >> still want to stick with the old methods...even when the new
>> >> technique/method seems to produce a better result. I think
>> >> it might be familiarity with the older method, and the
>> >> reluctance to embrace something new....at least in my case.
>> >>
>> >> I can probably think of dozens of times where this comes into
>> >> play..even when I am confronted with superior results from
>> >> the new-to-me method. I do this with piecrust, I know. And
>> >> stuffing...
>> >>
>> >> We get so set in our ways, sometimes..LOL.
>> >>
>> >> Christine
>>
>> > Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and
>> > chickens? I've never actually done it at all but am getting a
>> > lot more curious about trying it. With nearly all the meat
>> > from the grocery store already having saline injections added,
>> > I'm wondering if there is still a good reason to do it?
>>
>> Brining does work, even simple salted water with some sugar but variants
>> like adding apple juice can produce a browner result. I like to brine
>> turkey breast.
>
> But what about whole turkeys?
> I actually have the 'frige space to do it.


I use a clean 5 gallon bucket (you get them at any hardware store and they
are food grade plastic) and plenty of ice mixed in with the brine solution.
I just remove the lower rack in the fridge and the bucket fits in nicely. I
brine for 24 hours if it is a big bird, 12 if it is smaller, say under 18
pounds. Youtube has AL's, Romancing the Bird episode. He shows how it's
done. Couldn't be easier.

Paul

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:28:04 -0800, Lin >
wrote:

>Christine Dabney wrote:
>
>> Hey, just try it one time...LOL
>>
>> Do a comparison, the next time you want to brine something. Yes,
>> regular brining produces a result you like. This might produce
>> something even better..but ya never know til ya try it.
>
>If I go ahead and get a fresh bird after Thanksgiving, I'd be willing to
>give it a go.
>
>Have you tried the dry brine with pork or beef?
>
>--Lin

I do with steaks. Just salt it about half an hour before grilling,
then rinse it off, pat dry, and procede with what ever seasonings you
usually use.

koko
There is no love more sincere than the love of food
George Bernard Shaw
www.kokoscorner.typepad.com
updated 11/15

Christine wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:56:30 -0700:

>>> Even Harold McGee doesn't brine anymore....
>>
>> Yeah, he braises the turkey instead. I fired him from
>> Thanksgiving when I read that column.
>>
> Before he braised his turkey, he was rejecting brining. He
> says it imparts the flavor of the brine, and is not really the
> turkey's flavor. And it changes the texture to being rather
> spongy.

> I personally want the turkey to taste of turkey. And I don't
> want a spongy turkey.

> You folks that are rejecting a new (actually old) type of
> brining..try it before you condemn it. You might find you
> actually like it.

Rejection without trying is a common human failing unfortunately. It was
apparent in "simmering" thread among others.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:15:15 -0600, Lou Decruss >
wrote:


>I remember you posted a link to the video last year. Do you have it
>handy as I seem to have lost it.
>
>TIA.
>
>Lou


There are two of them this year, Lou. One is from the New York Times
and the other is from Russ Parsons of the LA Times. I think both
suggest the same thing, though. I will post the links to both. Take
your pic.

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2007/...-a-turkey.html

and
http://www.latimes.com/features/food/
The video of Russ Parsons carving the turkey is on the right side of
the page...you have to click on the video.

Christine

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:49:47 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:


>Considering the fact that most grocery store turkeys available nowadays
>are pre-brined from the store, I've never seen the point in doing it.
>Doesn't it make it too salty?

I don't get the ones that are pre-brined. I tend to get a fresh
turkey, that isn't enhanced.

Christine

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:10 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:


>Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and chickens? I've
>never actually done it at all but am getting a lot more curious about
>trying it. With nearly all the meat from the grocery store already
>having saline injections added, I'm wondering if there is still a good
>reason to do it?

I just posted my methods of dry brining. That is what we have been
discussing.

Plus, I don't buy the enhanced birds. I buy fresh, natural turkeys,
that don't have anything added.

Christine

On Nov 19, 1:52*pm, Kathleen > wrote:

> I've done it and was less than impressed. *I felt that the end result of
> an extra day's work and hassle yielded a result remarkably close to that
> of a "pre-basted" supermarket turkey.

You're right. I just cut to the chase and buy a pre-basted turkey.
Honeysuckle White, preferably. I don't find anything objectionable
in the ingredients list. Ok, I'd be marginally happier if sodium
phosphate weren't there, but a can of Coke probably has more.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:28:04 -0800, Lin >
wrote:

>Christine Dabney wrote:
>
>> Hey, just try it one time...LOL
>>
>> Do a comparison, the next time you want to brine something. Yes,
>> regular brining produces a result you like. This might produce
>> something even better..but ya never know til ya try it.
>
>If I go ahead and get a fresh bird after Thanksgiving, I'd be willing to
>give it a go.
>
>Have you tried the dry brine with pork or beef?
>
>--Lin

Yes, I have. The results are fantastic. Better with beef, though.

Christine

Christine wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:17:31 -0700:

>> Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and
>> chickens? I've never actually done it at all but am getting
>> a lot more curious about trying it. With nearly all the meat
>> from the grocery store already having saline injections
>> added, I'm wondering if there is still a good reason to do
>> it?

> I just posted my methods of dry brining. That is what we have
> been discussing.

> Plus, I don't buy the enhanced birds. I buy fresh, natural
> turkeys, that don't have anything added.

Here's a recipe, ex Washington Post. Note the warning about Kosher and
enhanced birds. As I have argued previously, I would ignore the
prescription for Kosher salt.

High temperature turkey breast.





One (6- to 8-pound) bone-in turkey breast, brined if desired (see
"Brining Works" box, below left) 6 to 8 servings



A turkey breast is ideal for a small group or to supplement a full bird.
It takes only about 90 minutes to roast, depending on your oven. And you
don't have to worry about keeping it moist while waiting for the rest of
the turkey to finish roasting.



MAKE AHEAD: Remove from refrigerator about 30 minutes ahead.





4 tablespoons ( 1/2 stick) unsalted butter, softened





Salt



Freshly ground black pepper



1/2 cup water



Adjust an oven rack to the middle position and preheat the oven to 425
degrees. Lightly grease a V-rack with nonstick spray oil and set it
inside a roasting pan.



Pat the turkey breast dry with paper towels. Loosen the skin by running
your hand just under the skin and use your fingertips to spread 3
tablespoons of the butter under the skin. Place the turkey breast in the
rack. Melt the remaining 1 tablespoon butter and brush it over the
breast. Season with salt and pepper to taste. Pour the water into the
roasting pan. Roast for 30 minutes.



Reduce the temperature to 325 degrees and roast for about 1 more hour or
until a meat thermometer inserted into the thickest part of the breast
registers 160 to 165 degrees. (The temperature continues to rise after
the turkey is removed from the oven.) Transfer to a carving board and
let it rest at least 15 minutes before carving.



Brining Works, but Is It Worth It?





We agree, but we're not convinced it's always worth the time and effort.
If you do go that route, add some sugar to the solution (which
incidentally will help the skin brown). For a 12- to 14-pound turkey,
dissolve 1 1/2 cups kosher salt (do not substitute regular salt) and 1
cup of sugar in 1 1/2 gallons of water. Put the turkey and the solution
into a stockpot, brining bag or a clean plastic bucket (a 12-pound
turkey will need a container of at least 3 gallons) and refrigerate for
10 to 12 hours or overnight. Before roasting, rinse the turkey in cold
water and pat it dry with paper towels.



Do not brine a kosher or self-basting turkey. Both varieties have
already been salted.




--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:57:20 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:


>I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?

If you don't get an enhanced bird, then it might be. Try it...

I personally like the dry brining method..it is easier, and I like the
quality better.
http://www.latimes.com/features/food...,3587406.story

http://www.latimes.com/features/food...,4842837.story

Christine

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news
>> > In article >,
>> > "James Silverton" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Omelet wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:10 -0600:
>> >>
>> >> >> I would be interested in hearing about your results. That
>> >> >> is..if you can let yourself be objective in this. I can see
>> >> >> (at least from my perspective) that it is hard to give up
>> >> >> a tried and true result, to try something new and be
>> >> >> objective about the results. At least for me (sometimes) I
>> >> >> still want to stick with the old methods...even when the new
>> >> >> technique/method seems to produce a better result. I think
>> >> >> it might be familiarity with the older method, and the
>> >> >> reluctance to embrace something new....at least in my case.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I can probably think of dozens of times where this comes into
>> >> >> play..even when I am confronted with superior results from
>> >> >> the new-to-me method. I do this with piecrust, I know. And
>> >> >> stuffing...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We get so set in our ways, sometimes..LOL.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Christine
>> >>
>> >> > Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and
>> >> > chickens? I've never actually done it at all but am getting a
>> >> > lot more curious about trying it. With nearly all the meat
>> >> > from the grocery store already having saline injections added,
>> >> > I'm wondering if there is still a good reason to do it?
>> >>
>> >> Brining does work, even simple salted water with some sugar but
>> >> variants
>> >> like adding apple juice can produce a browner result. I like to brine
>> >> turkey breast.
>> >
>> > But what about whole turkeys?
>> > I actually have the 'frige space to do it.
>>
>>
>> I use a clean 5 gallon bucket (you get them at any hardware store and
>> they
>> are food grade plastic) and plenty of ice mixed in with the brine
>> solution.
>> I just remove the lower rack in the fridge and the bucket fits in nicely.
>> I
>> brine for 24 hours if it is a big bird, 12 if it is smaller, say under 18
>> pounds. Youtube has AL's, Romancing the Bird episode. He shows how it's
>> done. Couldn't be easier.
>>
>> Paul
>
> I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?

Yes, very much so. The difference is quite profound. Plus you flash cook
the bird for 30 minutes at 500 to sear and crisp the skin then lower the
temp for the remainder. Helps to seal in all the lovely juices you've added
via the brine. Really it is no work. But a half gallon of quality
vegetable stock can sure add to the price of the meal. You really don't
even need to refrigerate it because all that salt inhibits bacterial growth.

Paul

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:58:27 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Christine Dabney > wrote:

>> I don't get the ones that are pre-brined. I tend to get a fresh
>> turkey, that isn't enhanced.
>>
>> Christine
>
>Those are not always available, but it's a good point.

They are available most everywhere now, but you do pay more for them.
They will never be the price of the frozen turkeys that are rock
bottom prices. And the quality is definitely better.

If I am going to be serving a holiday dinner, I prefer to invest in a
better quality bird.

Christine

In article >,
Christine Dabney > wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:57:20 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
>
> >I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?
>
> If you don't get an enhanced bird, then it might be. Try it...
>
> I personally like the dry brining method..it is easier, and I like the
> quality better.
> http://www.latimes.com/features/food...,1,3587406.sto
> ry
>
> http://www.latimes.com/features/food...,4842837.story
>
> Christine

Danke.
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> >> news > >> > In article >,
> >> > "James Silverton" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Omelet wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:10 -0600:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> I would be interested in hearing about your results. That
> >> >> >> is..if you can let yourself be objective in this. I can see
> >> >> >> (at least from my perspective) that it is hard to give up
> >> >> >> a tried and true result, to try something new and be
> >> >> >> objective about the results. At least for me (sometimes) I
> >> >> >> still want to stick with the old methods...even when the new
> >> >> >> technique/method seems to produce a better result. I think
> >> >> >> it might be familiarity with the older method, and the
> >> >> >> reluctance to embrace something new....at least in my case.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I can probably think of dozens of times where this comes into
> >> >> >> play..even when I am confronted with superior results from
> >> >> >> the new-to-me method. I do this with piecrust, I know. And
> >> >> >> stuffing...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> We get so set in our ways, sometimes..LOL.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Christine
> >> >>
> >> >> > Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and
> >> >> > chickens? I've never actually done it at all but am getting a
> >> >> > lot more curious about trying it. With nearly all the meat
> >> >> > from the grocery store already having saline injections added,
> >> >> > I'm wondering if there is still a good reason to do it?
> >> >>
> >> >> Brining does work, even simple salted water with some sugar but
> >> >> variants
> >> >> like adding apple juice can produce a browner result. I like to brine
> >> >> turkey breast.
> >> >
> >> > But what about whole turkeys?
> >> > I actually have the 'frige space to do it.
> >>
> >>
> >> I use a clean 5 gallon bucket (you get them at any hardware store and
> >> they
> >> are food grade plastic) and plenty of ice mixed in with the brine
> >> solution.
> >> I just remove the lower rack in the fridge and the bucket fits in nicely.
> >> I
> >> brine for 24 hours if it is a big bird, 12 if it is smaller, say under 18
> >> pounds. Youtube has AL's, Romancing the Bird episode. He shows how it's
> >> done. Couldn't be easier.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >
> > I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?
>
> Yes, very much so. The difference is quite profound. Plus you flash cook
> the bird for 30 minutes at 500 to sear and crisp the skin then lower the
> temp for the remainder. Helps to seal in all the lovely juices you've added
> via the brine. Really it is no work. But a half gallon of quality
> vegetable stock can sure add to the price of the meal. You really don't
> even need to refrigerate it because all that salt inhibits bacterial growth.
>
> Paul

I'll have to check Fiesta in Austin.

There are NO untreated birds available locally.
Unless I want to kill my own.
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

Paul wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:02:31 -0800:


> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
>> In article >,
>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>>> news >> >> In article >,
>> >> "James Silverton" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Omelet wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:10 -0600:
>> >>>
>> >> >>> I would be interested in hearing about your results. That
>> >> >>> is..if you can let yourself be objective in this.
>> >> >>> I can see (at least from my perspective) that it is
>> >> >>> hard to give up a tried and true result, to try
>> >> >>> something new and be objective about the results. At least
>> >> >>> for me (sometimes) I still want to stick with
>> >> >>> the old methods...even when the new technique/method
>> >> >>> seems to produce a better result. I think it might be
>> >> >>> familiarity with the older method, and the reluctance to
>> >> >>> embrace something new....at least in my case.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I can probably think of dozens of times where this
>> >> >>> comes into play..even when I am confronted with
>> >> >>> superior results from the new-to-me method. I do this
>> >> >>> with piecrust, I know. And stuffing...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> We get so set in our ways, sometimes..LOL.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Christine
>> >>>
>> >> >> Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and
>> >> >> chickens? I've never actually done it at all but am
>> >> >> getting a lot more curious about trying it. With
>> >> >> nearly all the meat from the grocery store already
>> >> >> having saline injections added, I'm wondering if there is still
>> >> >> a good reason to do it?
>> >>>
>> >>> Brining does work, even simple salted water with some
>> >>> sugar but variants like adding apple juice can produce a browner
>> >>> result. I like to brine turkey breast.
>> >>
>> >> But what about whole turkeys?
>> >> I actually have the 'frige space to do it.
>>>
>>> I use a clean 5 gallon bucket (you get them at any hardware store
>>> and they are food grade plastic) and plenty of ice
>>> mixed in with the brine solution. I just remove the lower
>>> rack in the fridge and the bucket fits in nicely. I brine
>>> for 24 hours if it is a big bird, 12 if it is smaller, say
>>> under 18 pounds. Youtube has AL's, Romancing the Bird
>>> episode. He shows how it's done. Couldn't be easier.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?

> Yes, very much so. The difference is quite profound. Plus
> you flash cook the bird for 30 minutes at 500 to sear and
> crisp the skin then lower the temp for the remainder. Helps
> to seal in all the lovely juices you've added via the brine. Really
> it is no work. But a half gallon of quality vegetable stock can sure
> add to the price of the meal. You really don't
> even need to refrigerate it because all that salt inhibits
> bacterial growth.

I've tried the Washington Post for high temperature brined turkey breast
recipe that I gave and I thought it was very good in taste and texture,

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:15:17 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:15:15 -0600, Lou Decruss >
>wrote:
>
>
>>I remember you posted a link to the video last year. Do you have it
>>handy as I seem to have lost it.
>>
>>TIA.
>>
>>Lou
>
>
>There are two of them this year, Lou. One is from the New York Times
>and the other is from Russ Parsons of the LA Times. I think both
>suggest the same thing, though. I will post the links to both. Take
>your pic.
>
>http://video.nytimes.com/video/2007/...-a-turkey.html
>
>and
>http://www.latimes.com/features/food/
>The video of Russ Parsons carving the turkey is on the right side of
>the page...you have to click on the video.
>
>Christine

Thanks for posting these again Christine. I'll probably get talked
into making one and carving them isn't my strong point.

Lou

On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:35:46 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
>to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....


I had an epiphany when OM said *not* stuffing the bird meant breast
meat stayed moist. That explains why my bird is cooks evenly when I
do it on the Weber. I HAVE to put some stuffing in the bird this year
(to soak up the yummy juices), but I won't fill the cavity. Most of
my dressing will be done in a casserole dish and everything will be
mixed together at the end.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:20:08 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>Yes you can. Try this method. It is still a brining method, but just
>dry brining. Instead of the bird absorbing the salty water, it absorbs
>it's own salted juices.

So, are we supposed to go out and buy some farm bird?

Hey, does this work with chicken?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:52:58 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>I was also going to suggest that you took a chance a few years ago
>and tried brining. Now you don't want to go back. Now might be the
>time to take another chance on a new-to-you technique. Ya never
>know, you might like the result a lot.

I tried brining a few years ago and as another poster already stated,
I was underwhelmed.

I'm going to buy a regular turkey and decrease the stuffing... I
should do it unstuffed, but I just can't this time. Om's statement
put me on the road about stuffing. I don't think brining is a factor.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:

> >> I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?
>
> > Yes, very much so. The difference is quite profound. Plus
> > you flash cook the bird for 30 minutes at 500 to sear and
> > crisp the skin then lower the temp for the remainder. Helps
> > to seal in all the lovely juices you've added via the brine. Really
> > it is no work. But a half gallon of quality vegetable stock can sure
> > add to the price of the meal. You really don't
> > even need to refrigerate it because all that salt inhibits
> > bacterial growth.
>
> I've tried the Washington Post for high temperature brined turkey breast
> recipe that I gave and I thought it was very good in taste and texture,
>
> --
>
> James Silverton

Hm. I may have to give that a try this year. My BIL did a brined
turkey last year and stunk up the apt. with the "hot" phase, but the
results seemed to be worth it.

Since I'm still sans oven, I'll be using the 16 qt. roaster. I guess I
could put it on the front porch. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:35:46 -0700, Christine Dabney
> > wrote:
>
> >You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
> >to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
>
>
> I had an epiphany when OM said *not* stuffing the bird meant breast
> meat stayed moist. That explains why my bird is cooks evenly when I
> do it on the Weber. I HAVE to put some stuffing in the bird this year
> (to soak up the yummy juices), but I won't fill the cavity. Most of
> my dressing will be done in a casserole dish and everything will be
> mixed together at the end.

I use the drippings for the gravy. :-)

Cheers!

Overcooked breast meat is just nasty to me, but Ymmv as always!
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:52:58 -0700, Christine Dabney
> > wrote:
>
> >I was also going to suggest that you took a chance a few years ago
> >and tried brining. Now you don't want to go back. Now might be the
> >time to take another chance on a new-to-you technique. Ya never
> >know, you might like the result a lot.
>
> I tried brining a few years ago and as another poster already stated,
> I was underwhelmed.
>
> I'm going to buy a regular turkey and decrease the stuffing... I
> should do it unstuffed, but I just can't this time. Om's statement
> put me on the road about stuffing. I don't think brining is a factor.

Well, mom taught me that it's a matter of cooking time. If the bird is
stuffed, it has to be cooked longer.

It tends to dry the meat out ime.

I've stuck to the rule (with large birds 12 lbs. or more) of 15 minutes
per lb. rather than the longer cooking that is recommended. One can
always add time if needed but once it's overdone, there is no undoing it.
Mom tended to go for the 20 lb. birds.

We like leftovers. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:25:27 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:20:08 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:
>
>>Yes you can. Try this method. It is still a brining method, but just
>>dry brining. Instead of the bird absorbing the salty water, it absorbs
>>it's own salted juices.
>
>So, are we supposed to go out and buy some farm bird?
>
>Hey, does this work with chicken?

Yes, it works with a lot of meats and poultry. Just none that are
already enhanced.

Christine

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:36:36 -0700, Christine Dabney
> wrote:
<snip>
>And no, all the salt does not stay in the wet brine. There are a lot
>of reports that you can not make gravy well with a brined bird, cause
>of the saltiness..

Hi Christine,

I brine, and rinse the bird thoroughly---VERY thoroughly---inside and
out, letting it drain after each rinse. Roast. Use drippings for
gravy. I don't need to salt the gravy...but it's not overly salty.

Some people may not have been successful with gravy from a brined
bird. But at least one person has been... :-)

Best -- Terry

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:57:20 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>> I use a clean 5 gallon bucket (you get them at any hardware store and they
>> are food grade plastic) and plenty of ice mixed in with the brine solution.
>> I just remove the lower rack in the fridge and the bucket fits in nicely. I
>> brine for 24 hours if it is a big bird, 12 if it is smaller, say under 18
>> pounds. Youtube has AL's, Romancing the Bird episode. He shows how it's
>> done. Couldn't be easier.
>>
>> Paul
>
>I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?

Hi Om,

I've found brining to be worthwhile for a frozen bird. Rinse the hell
out of the bird after brining.

This year the bird will be too big to go into a 5 gallon pail, so I'll
just use the cooler I bought this summer. Lotsa ice, add salt, drop
the bird in there, snap the lid closed, leave it in the garage
overnight.

Two years ago we had the neighbors over for Thanksgiving dinner. Last
year they invited us and about a dozen others...and asked if *we*
would make the turkey (they'd buy it but would Terry pleeeeeaze roast
it?? Great compliment, and happy to oblige!) This year we're over
there again, with about 18 people and I'm doing the turkey again.

Best -- Terry

In article >,
Terry > wrote:


> This year the bird will be too big to go into a 5 gallon pail, so I'll
> just use the cooler I bought this summer. Lotsa ice, add salt, drop
> the bird in there, snap the lid closed, leave it in the garage
> overnight.

We tried something like this a few years ago. Read about it in the
paper, for those who don't have room in their fridge (that's us). Get
two food safe garbage bags, one inside the other. Put bags in cooler
and insert turkey. Add brine (ours had a bunch of ingredients) and tie
tightly. Put a ten pound bag of ice *next* to the bag. The ice keeps
it cool but doesn't dilute the brine. The bag keeps the brine close to
the turkey, so you don't need as much.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:30:10 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:35:46 -0700, Christine Dabney
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
>> >to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
>>
>>
>> I had an epiphany when OM said *not* stuffing the bird meant breast
>> meat stayed moist. That explains why my bird is cooks evenly when I
>> do it on the Weber. I HAVE to put some stuffing in the bird this year
>> (to soak up the yummy juices), but I won't fill the cavity. Most of
>> my dressing will be done in a casserole dish and everything will be
>> mixed together at the end.
>
>I use the drippings for the gravy. :-)
>
Drippings are drippings.... I'm talking about the liquid that gathers
in the cavity, which makes dressing so much yummier than any dressing
only seasoned with stock.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:27:57 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>Since I'm still sans oven, I'll be using the 16 qt. roaster. I guess I
>could put it on the front porch. <g>

Probably the BEST turkey I've ever eaten was made in a roaster with
mole. I still think about it from time to time. YUM!


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:58:13 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> Terry > wrote:
>
>
>> This year the bird will be too big to go into a 5 gallon pail, so I'll
>> just use the cooler I bought this summer. Lotsa ice, add salt, drop
>> the bird in there, snap the lid closed, leave it in the garage
>> overnight.
>
>We tried something like this a few years ago. Read about it in the
>paper, for those who don't have room in their fridge (that's us). Get
>two food safe garbage bags, one inside the other. Put bags in cooler
>and insert turkey. Add brine (ours had a bunch of ingredients) and tie
>tightly. Put a ten pound bag of ice *next* to the bag. The ice keeps
>it cool but doesn't dilute the brine. The bag keeps the brine close to
>the turkey, so you don't need as much.

Where would you get a "food safe" garbage bag?

Lou

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:36:12 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:27:57 -0600, Omelet >
>wrote:
>
>>Since I'm still sans oven, I'll be using the 16 qt. roaster. I guess I
>>could put it on the front porch. <g>
>
>Probably the BEST turkey I've ever eaten was made in a roaster with
>mole. I still think about it from time to time. YUM!

Next year?


Christine

In article >,
Terry > wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:57:20 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >> I use a clean 5 gallon bucket (you get them at any hardware store and they
> >> are food grade plastic) and plenty of ice mixed in with the brine
> >> solution.
> >> I just remove the lower rack in the fridge and the bucket fits in nicely.
> >> I
> >> brine for 24 hours if it is a big bird, 12 if it is smaller, say under 18
> >> pounds. Youtube has AL's, Romancing the Bird episode. He shows how it's
> >> done. Couldn't be easier.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >
> >I'm sure it's easy. The point is is it worth it?
>
> Hi Om,
>
> I've found brining to be worthwhile for a frozen bird. Rinse the hell
> out of the bird after brining.
>
> This year the bird will be too big to go into a 5 gallon pail, so I'll
> just use the cooler I bought this summer. Lotsa ice, add salt, drop
> the bird in there, snap the lid closed, leave it in the garage
> overnight.
>
> Two years ago we had the neighbors over for Thanksgiving dinner. Last
> year they invited us and about a dozen others...and asked if *we*
> would make the turkey (they'd buy it but would Terry pleeeeeaze roast
> it?? Great compliment, and happy to oblige!) This year we're over
> there again, with about 18 people and I'm doing the turkey again.
>
> Best -- Terry

Very cool.

I was just discussing this with my sister a couple of hours ago. They
plan to do the cooking and will brine the turkey, but she asked me to
pick up some of the turkey necks for her I spotted yesterday so she can
do like I do and make the stock for the gravy the day before.

She says that she does not plan to use brined turkey drippings for gravy
due to the brining.

Some I guess are more sensitive to the oversalting... but I've
personally never brined so have not tried it.

I always make my gravy base the day or so before so I can use
refrigeration for defatting, then use the separator to add the drippings.

On the other hand, I'm always up for an education. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:30:10 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > sf > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:35:46 -0700, Christine Dabney
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
> >> >to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
> >>
> >>
> >> I had an epiphany when OM said *not* stuffing the bird meant breast
> >> meat stayed moist. That explains why my bird is cooks evenly when I
> >> do it on the Weber. I HAVE to put some stuffing in the bird this year
> >> (to soak up the yummy juices), but I won't fill the cavity. Most of
> >> my dressing will be done in a casserole dish and everything will be
> >> mixed together at the end.
> >
> >I use the drippings for the gravy. :-)
> >
> Drippings are drippings.... I'm talking about the liquid that gathers
> in the cavity, which makes dressing so much yummier than any dressing
> only seasoned with stock.

You can always stir that into the cooked dressing afterwards...
10 or 15 minutes rest will let it soak in.
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:27:57 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >Since I'm still sans oven, I'll be using the 16 qt. roaster. I guess I
> >could put it on the front porch. <g>
>
> Probably the BEST turkey I've ever eaten was made in a roaster with
> mole. I still think about it from time to time. YUM!

Mole... Interesting idea!
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:51:17 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>I was just discussing this with my sister a couple of hours ago. They
>plan to do the cooking and will brine the turkey, but she asked me to
>pick up some of the turkey necks for her I spotted yesterday so she can
>do like I do and make the stock for the gravy the day before.
>
>She says that she does not plan to use brined turkey drippings for gravy
>due to the brining.
>
>Some I guess are more sensitive to the oversalting... but I've
>personally never brined so have not tried it.
>
>I always make my gravy base the day or so before so I can use
>refrigeration for defatting, then use the separator to add the drippings.

I just got some turkey parts this morning. Couldn't get turkey necks,
but got some drumsticks and turkey wings. Maybe those will make a
good broth? If I see some necks tonight, when I am out and about, I
might get a few of those. Got to make a double batch for turkey gravy
for myself on Sunday, and for Thursday.

Christine

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:53:29 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> sf > wrote:

>>
>> Probably the BEST turkey I've ever eaten was made in a roaster with
>> mole. I still think about it from time to time. YUM!
>
>Mole... Interesting idea!

Oh, it is a classic combo, Om. You should try it!!

Christine

In article >,
Christine Dabney > wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:51:17 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >I was just discussing this with my sister a couple of hours ago. They
> >plan to do the cooking and will brine the turkey, but she asked me to
> >pick up some of the turkey necks for her I spotted yesterday so she can
> >do like I do and make the stock for the gravy the day before.
> >
> >She says that she does not plan to use brined turkey drippings for gravy
> >due to the brining.
> >
> >Some I guess are more sensitive to the oversalting... but I've
> >personally never brined so have not tried it.
> >
> >I always make my gravy base the day or so before so I can use
> >refrigeration for defatting, then use the separator to add the drippings.
>
> I just got some turkey parts this morning. Couldn't get turkey necks,
> but got some drumsticks and turkey wings. Maybe those will make a
> good broth? If I see some necks tonight, when I am out and about, I
> might get a few of those. Got to make a double batch for turkey gravy
> for myself on Sunday, and for Thursday.
>
> Christine

Well, necks are my favorite (along with giblets for stock) but I don't
see any reason why wings or drums would not work. I'd tend to use wings
as chicken wings have made good stock in the past for me.

I nearly always end up with extra gravy!
--
Peace! Om

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
Lou Decruss > wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:58:13 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Terry > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> This year the bird will be too big to go into a 5 gallon pail, so I'll
> >> just use the cooler I bought this summer. Lotsa ice, add salt, drop
> >> the bird in there, snap the lid closed, leave it in the garage
> >> overnight.
> >
> >We tried something like this a few years ago. Read about it in the
> >paper, for those who don't have room in their fridge (that's us). Get
> >two food safe garbage bags, one inside the other. Put bags in cooler
> >and insert turkey. Add brine (ours had a bunch of ingredients) and tie
> >tightly. Put a ten pound bag of ice *next* to the bag. The ice keeps
> >it cool but doesn't dilute the brine. The bag keeps the brine close to
> >the turkey, so you don't need as much.
>
> Where would you get a "food safe" garbage bag?

Good question. To make it short and sweet, I did a Google and none of
the sites recommended using garbage bags for food storage.

I did look up the recipe:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../FDGLVMG63C1.D
TL&hw=turkey+brining&sn=007&sc=350

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA