>> >>
>> >
>> > Yeah, they kept telling me how "demented" my mother was when she was in
>> > the hospital. She wasn't demented before they got their hands on her.
>> > She wasn't demented when she got home, either. They sent scripts for
>> > THIRTY medications home with her. WTF?!
>> >
>> > Jill
>> My Mom was in ICU for almost three weeks before she died and was
>> convinced they were all trying to kill her. There were other behaviours
>> out
>> of the norm too. There wasn't much we could do to but try to calm her
>> and
>> reassure her they were trying to help her. At first she didn't recognise
>> me
>> and kept asking why I was there. At the end she had a lucid moment and
>> the
>> last thing I said to her was "I love you, Mom". I hope she really heard
>> it.....Sharon in Canada
>
> Geezus Sharon. I feel for ya. Losing a parent is bad enough without
> that crap. My mom was on a ventilator for the last week of her life.
> I'm not convinced she understood anything...
> --
> Peace! Om
>
Thanks, Om. I'd never heard of ICU psychosis (SP?) It explains a
lot. They just said it was the morphine. But she was on a bunch of other
drugs too. It was a blessing when she passed. ....Sharon in Canada

In article >, "biig" >
wrote:

> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, they kept telling me how "demented" my mother was when she was in
> >> > the hospital. She wasn't demented before they got their hands on her.
> >> > She wasn't demented when she got home, either. They sent scripts for
> >> > THIRTY medications home with her. WTF?!
> >> >
> >> > Jill
> >> My Mom was in ICU for almost three weeks before she died and was
> >> convinced they were all trying to kill her. There were other behaviours
> >> out
> >> of the norm too. There wasn't much we could do to but try to calm her
> >> and
> >> reassure her they were trying to help her. At first she didn't recognise
> >> me
> >> and kept asking why I was there. At the end she had a lucid moment and
> >> the
> >> last thing I said to her was "I love you, Mom". I hope she really heard
> >> it.....Sharon in Canada
> >
> > Geezus Sharon. I feel for ya. Losing a parent is bad enough without
> > that crap. My mom was on a ventilator for the last week of her life.
> > I'm not convinced she understood anything...
> >
> Thanks, Om. I'd never heard of ICU psychosis (SP?) It explains a
> lot. They just said it was the morphine. But she was on a bunch of other
> drugs too. It was a blessing when she passed. ....Sharon in Canada

<HUGS!!!>
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> "PeterL" > wrote in message
> .25...
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>>> news >>>> In article >,
>>>> "Cheryl" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not sure how to take that, but I'm glad she's in good spirits!
>>>>
>>>> Hospital psychosis sucks. I went thru that with my Aunt.
>>>>
>>>> It's all the crap they pump into your veins imho.
>>>> --
>>>> Peace! Om
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, they kept telling me how "demented" my mother was when she was
>>> in the hospital. She wasn't demented before they got their hands on
>>> her. She wasn't demented when she got home, either. They sent
>>> scripts for THIRTY medications home with her. WTF?!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark!!!! She would have rattled when
>> she walked!!!
>>
>> *30* meds??? That's obscene!!
>>
>>
>> Most of those would have been.... "Oh, you have to take *this one* to
>> counteract the effects of that one, and then you have to take this one
>> to counteract the effects of *that one*....... etc, etc!!"
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Lucas
>> Brisbane
>> Australia
>>
>
> It was ridiculous. Her gerontologist had reduced her prescriptions from
> nine down to three based on lab work, then in the hospital they ramped her
> back up to nine and handed me prescriptions for thirty by the time they
> sent her home. It's no wonder she was seeing my dead father walking
> around the halls of the hospital and was getting combative with the
> hospital staff. The day she did come home they didn't give her meds. Her
> doctor came to the house and ticked off all the reasons why she didn't
> need this, this, this, that, nor that, nor... basically got her back down
> to three plus a low dose (baby) aspirin. Not only was she no longer
> "demented" she could also eat spinach and broccoli, which, with the
> coumadin they had put her back on in the hospital she wasn't supposed to
> eat. It was one of the few things I could get her to eat in the end. I
> wasn't about to give her a drug that would limit her food intake even
> more.
>
> I miss her. She was a very sweet woman.
>
> Jill

Who prescribed all these excess pills? It would not have been "the
hospital." Anything in a hospital--even an aspirin--would need a doctor's
prescription, at least in my experience. I went through many of the same
problems as you did with regard to too many prescriptions for my mother,
some of which caused horrendous side-effects or were contraindicated.
Still, I needed to work back through each physician to determine the source.
As I said, it's not really "the hospital." I do agree, though, that the
multiplicity of physicians, nurses, aides, technicians, etc. somehow seems
to result in far too much medication for many patients, especially the
elderly.

MaryL

MaryL wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote

>> It was ridiculous. Her gerontologist had reduced her prescriptions
>> from nine down to three based on lab work, then in the hospital they
>> ramped her back up to nine and handed me prescriptions for thirty by
>> the time they sent her home.

> hospital." Anything in a hospital--even an aspirin--would need a
> doctor's prescription, at least in my experience. I went through
> many of the same problems as you did with regard to too many
> prescriptions for my mother, some of which caused horrendous
> side-effects or were contraindicated. Still, I needed to work back
> through each physician to determine the source. As I said, it's not
> really "the hospital." I do agree, though, that the multiplicity of
> physicians, nurses, aides, technicians, etc. somehow seems to result
> in far too much medication for many patients, especially the elderly.

I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. Who is looking
out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
her being on thirty medications. Here you go, just give her these.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
> a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. Who is looking
> out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
> her being on thirty medications. Here you go, just give her these.
>
> nancy
>
I'm curious as to which medicines were really prescribed? 30 meds is
VERY unusual in my experience. Renal or transplant patients might be the
most dependent on routine meds, but 30 different drugs would still be
pushing it....?

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:12:02 -0600, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>cybercat is *exactly* right, it's best to killfile not only Lucas in his
>many permutations but also those who continually respond to him
>sympathetically, e.g. the latest is Damsel. Om and Wayne went into my
>killfile a whiles back because of their endless useless "me too" responses
>to Mucus...

But, but, but ... I like you, too, Greg. Wonder how many killfiles
I'll be added to for that transgression.

>A person must be *mighty* desperate for "company" by having to engage in a
>Usenet lovefest with the likes of a Peterbreath Lucas...Mucus is playing Om,
>Damsel, Wayne and some others here for utter fools, it's amazing that they
>don't realize that.

I've been away for some time. Peter and I exchanged friendly
correspondence a couple years ago. Has he changed since then? I'm
seeing a lot of hatred directed toward him, but don't really know why.

Feel free to write to me off-list, if you'd like. I've lost all of my
e-mail addresses, or I'd have asked you about this stuff privately.

Carol

Goomba wrote:
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
> > a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. Who is looking
> > out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
> > her being on thirty medications. Here you go, just give her these.
> >
> > nancy
> >
> I'm curious as to which medicines were really prescribed? 30 meds is
> VERY unusual in my experience. Renal or transplant patients might be the
> most dependent on routine meds, but 30 different drugs would still be
> pushing it....?

Not necessarily, for geriatric patients who are seeing multiple
prescribers. A former neighbour of ours (who died at age 87) was taking
about that many different Rxs. Every time she went in she wanted a
prescription for some illness. Sometimes real but often imagined,
usually something she had recently read about in some 'health'
newsletter. In these days of high medical liability settlements, it's
often 'safer' to just prescribe rather than deny the patient's wishes.
The woman's daughter didn't give a s*** in any case. Each of her doctors
just gave her a scrip and she got them filled at different pharmacies.

The pills are probably what killed her; she wasn't really very ill other
than that.

In article >,
Goomba > wrote:

> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
> > a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. Who is looking
> > out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
> > her being on thirty medications. Here you go, just give her these.
> >
> > nancy
> >
> I'm curious as to which medicines were really prescribed? 30 meds is
> VERY unusual in my experience. Renal or transplant patients might be the
> most dependent on routine meds, but 30 different drugs would still be
> pushing it....?

Nice pun. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Goomba wrote:
>>
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> > I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
>> > a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. Who is looking
>> > out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
>> > her being on thirty medications. Here you go, just give her these.
>> >
>> > nancy
>> >
>> I'm curious as to which medicines were really prescribed? 30 meds is
>> VERY unusual in my experience. Renal or transplant patients might be the
>> most dependent on routine meds, but 30 different drugs would still be
>> pushing it....?
>
> Not necessarily, for geriatric patients who are seeing multiple
> prescribers. A former neighbour of ours (who died at age 87) was taking
> about that many different Rxs. Every time she went in she wanted a
> prescription for some illness. Sometimes real but often imagined,
> usually something she had recently read about in some 'health'
> newsletter. In these days of high medical liability settlements, it's
> often 'safer' to just prescribe rather than deny the patient's wishes.
> The woman's daughter didn't give a s*** in any case. Each of her doctors
> just gave her a scrip and she got them filled at different pharmacies.
>
> The pills are probably what killed her; she wasn't really very ill other
> than that.
>

Funny, the 30 different orders for the meds doesn't bother me. However, the
pharmacist and the nurses writing them up and dispensing them all should
have questioned it. Where I worked it was expected of the nurses. We would
have been disciplined or terminated for allowing drug interactions to occur.

Debbie

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:03:17 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>I know you also use linux, Cathy. Which browser? I use Seamonkey (mozilla)
>and discovered I needed to allow cookies to get other pages like guest book
>and photos. Make sure you turn off NoScript, also.

I allow all cookies until I close the session. I got too tired of
allowing separate cases when all I wanted to do was "get there". NS
can be a pain in the *ss too, but I've started temporarily allowing
all of the page. So far, no problems.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Dec 11, 1:28*pm, "Debbie" > wrote:
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Goomba wrote:
>
> >> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >> > I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
> >> > a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. *Who is looking
> >> > out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
> >> > her being on thirty medications. *Here you go, just give her these..
>
> >> > nancy
>
> >> I'm curious as to which medicines were really prescribed? 30 meds is
> >> VERY unusual in my experience. Renal or transplant patients might be the
> >> most *dependent on routine meds, but 30 different drugs would still be
> >> pushing it....?
>
> > Not necessarily, for geriatric patients who are seeing multiple
> > prescribers. A former neighbour of ours (who died at age 87) was taking
> > about that many different Rxs. Every time she went in she wanted a
> > prescription for some illness. Sometimes real but often imagined,
> > usually something she had recently read about in some 'health'
> > newsletter. In these days of high medical liability settlements, it's
> > often 'safer' to just prescribe rather than deny the patient's wishes.
> > The woman's daughter didn't give a s*** in any case. Each of her doctors
> > just gave her a scrip and she got them filled at different pharmacies.
>
> > The pills are probably what killed her; she wasn't really very ill other
> > than that.
>
> Funny, the 30 different orders for the meds doesn't bother me. *However, the
> pharmacist and the nurses writing them up and dispensing them all should
> have questioned it. *Where I worked it was expected of the nurses. *We would
> have been disciplined or terminated for allowing drug interactions to occur.
>
> Debbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Here in hospitals registered nurses need to be aware of medicine
contradictions, this is, to be sure interactions do not occur. If I
thought there were contradictions I would not administer the medicines
and check with patients doctor. And then, if I thought doctor was
wrong I would not administer contradictory medicines. Then of course,
pharmacist need to be aware of contradictions too.

Kind Regards
Paul

notbob wrote:

> On 2008-12-10, ChattyCathy > wrote:
>
>> Hmmm. I can get to the journal page, and the Guestbook, but for some
>> reason the link to the photos page doesn't work at the moment. Odd.
>
> I know you also use linux, Cathy. Which browser? I use Seamonkey
> (mozilla) and discovered I needed to allow cookies to get other pages
> like guest book
> and photos. Make sure you turn off NoScript, also.
>
> nb

Still using Firefox, nb. But it's one of those "sometimes it works, and
sometimes it doesn't" things - and yes I have allowed cookies and have
switched off NS for those pages... Finally got to see them without
changing anything. Dunno, server fart, maybe?
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Damsel in dis Dress > wrote in
:


>
> But, but, but ... I like you, too, Greg. Wonder how many killfiles
> I'll be added to for that transgression.


It's your call who you talk to.

I've had that moron morrow killfiled for a loooooooong time.

It seems to be ****ed off at me because I won't talk to it.

It needs to grow up, and move on.



>
>>A person must be *mighty* desperate for "company" by having to engage
>>in a Usenet lovefest with the likes of a Peterbreath Lucas...Mucus is
>>playing Om, Damsel, Wayne and some others here for utter fools, it's
>>amazing that they don't realize that.
>
> I've been away for some time. Peter and I exchanged friendly
> correspondence a couple years ago. Has he changed since then?



You could have just asked me. I *am* right here, you know.




*OR*...... even just done a quick Google check on my posts for the last
6 months, and those of that moron morrow, and it's little mates.


> I'm
> seeing a lot of hatred directed toward him, but don't really know why.


To start with, I don't 'talk' with moron morrow, or 3dogs.

They got their titties all in a tangle over it, and have a mutual 'bitch
fest' over me. Then the stalkers and forgers from ozdebate decided to
come on in and join the 'fun'. So now moron and 3dogs have "mutual"
friends that they can all 'gang up' with and act like immature little
schoolkids. It suits them, because that's what all cowards do.

Because we all know...... cowards are sooooooooooooooooooo much tuffer
and smarter when they're in a gang.


As for cyber****, I've had that cowardly venemous bitch killfiled for
years. Her one saving grace is that she never does what moron does, and
changes ID's every 5mins to escape peoples killfiles.


Moron morrow spends 99.99% of it's time in the ng slagging off at
someone, or other.

It's a grub, and a snake in the grass.


I've pointed out the stalkers from ozdebate in the past.
That grub 'hey-zues' is one of them.

It just had it's aioe.org account cancelled because of it's posts where
it was forging me...... in this ng.


I *have* warned you about it.


>
> Feel free to write to me off-list, if you'd like.


It'd be interesting to see morons side of the story :-)


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS! Das computermachine ist nicht fuer
gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk,
blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fuer gewerken
bei das dumpkopfen. Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das cotten-
pickenen hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das
blinkenlichten

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
. ..
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "PeterL" > wrote in message
>> .25...
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>>>> news >>>>> In article >,
>>>>> "Cheryl" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure how to take that, but I'm glad she's in good spirits!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hospital psychosis sucks. I went thru that with my Aunt.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's all the crap they pump into your veins imho.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peace! Om
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, they kept telling me how "demented" my mother was when she was
>>>> in the hospital. She wasn't demented before they got their hands on
>>>> her. She wasn't demented when she got home, either. They sent
>>>> scripts for THIRTY medications home with her. WTF?!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark!!!! She would have rattled when
>>> she walked!!!
>>>
>>> *30* meds??? That's obscene!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of those would have been.... "Oh, you have to take *this one* to
>>> counteract the effects of that one, and then you have to take this one
>>> to counteract the effects of *that one*....... etc, etc!!"
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter Lucas
>>> Brisbane
>>> Australia
>>>
>>
>> It was ridiculous. Her gerontologist had reduced her prescriptions from
>> nine down to three based on lab work, then in the hospital they ramped
>> her back up to nine and handed me prescriptions for thirty by the time
>> they sent her home. It's no wonder she was seeing my dead father walking
>> around the halls of the hospital and was getting combative with the
>> hospital staff. The day she did come home they didn't give her meds. Her
>> doctor came to the house and ticked off all the reasons why she didn't
>> need this, this, this, that, nor that, nor... basically got her back down
>> to three plus a low dose (baby) aspirin. Not only was she no longer
>> "demented" she could also eat spinach and broccoli, which, with the
>> coumadin they had put her back on in the hospital she wasn't supposed to
>> eat. It was one of the few things I could get her to eat in the end. I
>> wasn't about to give her a drug that would limit her food intake even
>> more.
>>
>> I miss her. She was a very sweet woman.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Who prescribed all these excess pills? It would not have been "the
> hospital."

> Anything in a hospital--even an aspirin--would need a doctor's
> prescription, at least in my experience. I went through many of the same
> problems as you did with regard to too many prescriptions for my mother,
> some of which caused horrendous side-effects or were contraindicated.
> Still, I needed to work back through each physician to determine the
> source. As I said, it's not really "the hospital." I do agree, though,
> that the multiplicity of physicians, nurses, aides, technicians, etc.
> somehow seems to result in far too much medication for many patients,
> especially the elderly.
>
> MaryL
>

She was being seen by four different doctors while she was in there.
Including one I expressly told them I didn't want to see her. Then they
lost my Healthcare Power of Attorney papers (and they never made it into her
"chart") so they started ignoring her (and my) wishes and pushing more pills
on her.

This hospital has physicians they call "hospitalers". They don't have
private practices outside of the hospital, so yes, they are "the hospital".
They are just doctors who work there who drop by because they are assigned
to do so.

I took her three medications with me to the hospital when she was admitted
for tests. They completely ignored them. They immediately slapped her back
on the nine medications her former doctors had her on, then upped it to 14,
18, 30. It was ridiculous.

I'm sorry to say this but your mother's experience wasn't the same as my
mother's. My mother wasn't suffering from dementia until these people got
their hands on her. I met with three of the doctors, a physical therapist,
a nursing coordinator and a social worker just trying to get her back home.
They lost her false teeth, for goodness sakes. I'm just glad she made it
back home so she could die in the comfort of her own bed.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "PeterL" > wrote in message
>>> .25...
>>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>>>>> news >>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>> "Cheryl" > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure how to take that, but I'm glad she's in good spirits!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hospital psychosis sucks. I went thru that with my Aunt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's all the crap they pump into your veins imho.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Peace! Om
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, they kept telling me how "demented" my mother was when she was
>>>>> in the hospital. She wasn't demented before they got their hands on
>>>>> her. She wasn't demented when she got home, either. They sent
>>>>> scripts for THIRTY medications home with her. WTF?!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark!!!! She would have rattled when
>>>> she walked!!!
>>>>
>>>> *30* meds??? That's obscene!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most of those would have been.... "Oh, you have to take *this one* to
>>>> counteract the effects of that one, and then you have to take this one
>>>> to counteract the effects of *that one*....... etc, etc!!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter Lucas
>>>> Brisbane
>>>> Australia
>>>>
>>>
>>> It was ridiculous. Her gerontologist had reduced her prescriptions from
>>> nine down to three based on lab work, then in the hospital they ramped
>>> her back up to nine and handed me prescriptions for thirty by the time
>>> they sent her home. It's no wonder she was seeing my dead father
>>> walking around the halls of the hospital and was getting combative with
>>> the hospital staff. The day she did come home they didn't give her meds.
>>> Her doctor came to the house and ticked off all the reasons why she
>>> didn't need this, this, this, that, nor that, nor... basically got her
>>> back down to three plus a low dose (baby) aspirin. Not only was she no
>>> longer "demented" she could also eat spinach and broccoli, which, with
>>> the coumadin they had put her back on in the hospital she wasn't
>>> supposed to eat. It was one of the few things I could get her to eat in
>>> the end. I wasn't about to give her a drug that would limit her food
>>> intake even more.
>>>
>>> I miss her. She was a very sweet woman.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> Who prescribed all these excess pills? It would not have been "the
>> hospital."
>
>> Anything in a hospital--even an aspirin--would need a doctor's
>> prescription, at least in my experience. I went through many of the same
>> problems as you did with regard to too many prescriptions for my mother,
>> some of which caused horrendous side-effects or were contraindicated.
>> Still, I needed to work back through each physician to determine the
>> source. As I said, it's not really "the hospital." I do agree, though,
>> that the multiplicity of physicians, nurses, aides, technicians, etc.
>> somehow seems to result in far too much medication for many patients,
>> especially the elderly.
>>
>> MaryL
>>
>
> She was being seen by four different doctors while she was in there.
> Including one I expressly told them I didn't want to see her. Then they
> lost my Healthcare Power of Attorney papers (and they never made it into
> her "chart") so they started ignoring her (and my) wishes and pushing more
> pills on her.
>
> This hospital has physicians they call "hospitalers". They don't have
> private practices outside of the hospital, so yes, they are "the
> hospital". They are just doctors who work there who drop by because they
> are assigned to do so.
>
> I took her three medications with me to the hospital when she was admitted
> for tests. They completely ignored them. They immediately slapped her
> back on the nine medications her former doctors had her on, then upped it
> to 14, 18, 30. It was ridiculous.
>
> I'm sorry to say this but your mother's experience wasn't the same as my
> mother's. My mother wasn't suffering from dementia until these people got
> their hands on her. I met with three of the doctors, a physical
> therapist, a nursing coordinator and a social worker just trying to get
> her back home. They lost her false teeth, for goodness sakes. I'm just
> glad she made it back home so she could die in the comfort of her own bed.
>
> Jill

It really can be very difficult to get optimum care for our parents. They
are often not in condition to make decisions, and there is a great tendency
to overmedicate (IMO).

Your description reminded me of something that really angered and annoyed me
at the time, but now I can laugh about it. This was in the nursing home,
not the hospital. My mother had been in the nursing home for three or four
years at that time, so they certainly should have known her well. I kept
emphasizing that her teeth needed to be brushed, and it was ignored over and
over again. I made repeated visits to the director of nurses. Conditions
would get better for awhile, then revert again. I was very concerned
because she was 89 or 90 years old at that time and still had all of her own
teeth. I didn't want her to start getting cavities or gum problems at that
age. One time when I started to emphasize this point with an aide, she
said, "Why doesn't she just put her teeth on her nightstand and we'll put
them in water in the morning." I pointed out that that would be a mite
difficult since she had her own teeth!!

MaryL

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
>
> She was being seen by four different doctors while she was in there.
> Including one I expressly told them I didn't want to see her.
> Jill

One thing that was very different for my mother than what you described is
that I had total control over what doctors she saw. Her own physician was
always the admitting physician, and he consulted me with regard to
specialists. The exception, of course, was ER doctors when she was admitted
in emergencies. Even then, the nursing home would call me and I would drive
immediately to the hospital and sit with her, both to give her the comfort
of knowing I was there and to make sure I could ask questions. I made sure
I was at the hospital before 6:00 a.m. every day when she was in the
hospital just so I could talk to each doctor. I never knew for sure what
time they would make their rounds, but it was often very early. I think I
mentioned earlier that I had many copies of her Power of Attorney, DNR
orders, etc., and I always had copies with me. I even kept some in the car
so I could quickly grab them when needed. (That's not a criticism...just a
commentary of how I did it, and it was partly based on being told when she
signed the DNR order that a copy must be with her *at all times* or
paramedics would be required to resuscitate.)

MaryL

Debbie wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Goomba wrote:
> >>
> >> Nancy Young wrote:
> >>
> >> > I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
> >> > a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. Who is looking
> >> > out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
> >> > her being on thirty medications. Here you go, just give her these.
> >> >
> >> > nancy
> >> >
> >> I'm curious as to which medicines were really prescribed? 30 meds is
> >> VERY unusual in my experience. Renal or transplant patients might be the
> >> most dependent on routine meds, but 30 different drugs would still be
> >> pushing it....?
> >
> > Not necessarily, for geriatric patients who are seeing multiple
> > prescribers. A former neighbour of ours (who died at age 87) was taking
> > about that many different Rxs. Every time she went in she wanted a
> > prescription for some illness. Sometimes real but often imagined,
> > usually something she had recently read about in some 'health'
> > newsletter. In these days of high medical liability settlements, it's
> > often 'safer' to just prescribe rather than deny the patient's wishes.
> > The woman's daughter didn't give a s*** in any case. Each of her doctors
> > just gave her a scrip and she got them filled at different pharmacies.
> >
> > The pills are probably what killed her; she wasn't really very ill other
> > than that.
> >
>
> Funny, the 30 different orders for the meds doesn't bother me. However, the
> pharmacist and the nurses writing them up and dispensing them all should
> have questioned it. Where I worked it was expected of the nurses. We would
> have been disciplined or terminated for allowing drug interactions to occur.
>
> Debbie

In hospital is different than outpatient, although bad drug interactions
still slip through. But going to different pharmacies, which aren't
always networked, is an easy way to end up with drug interactions. Plus
in this case, the prescribers apparently just didn't care. She had an
infinitely renewable prescription for high-dose Valium...completely
inappropriate for someone that age taking other meds.

On Dec 11, 1:02*am, PeterL > wrote:
> Omelet > wrote in newsmpomelet-
> :
>
>
>
>
>
> > When it comes to meds, I trust my Pharmacist MORE than I trust the
> > doctor. After all, that's his speciality. :-) *He's actually very
> good,
> > and he'll talk to me.
>
> I'm on good terms with my Pharmacist, and even better terms with my GP.
>
> They *know* me, and don't phuk me around.
>
> I'm not on the Specialists Christmas lists......... but that can only be
> a good thing :-)
>
> They seem to have a problem with some "unqualified" cretin questioning
> *their* findings.......... especially when said 'cretin' is the
> patient!!
>
> I have a distinct advantage over most other people though, in that I can
> pick and choose specialists and hospitals at will.

You self-important prick. Just because Ruth Grealy works hard and pays
for *your* private health insurance, you are looking down on others
who cannot afford private health insurance!
There is you bragging that you are a double income no kids couple when
you are on disability pension and Ruth works as a debt collector and
who supplies you with other peoples private details.

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> flitterbit > wrote:
>
>>>> They fortunately agreed to stop administering the drug, all delusions
>>>> stopped, and stepdad's still alive and kicking four years later.
>>> I am so glad for you that you did that... :-)
>> >
>> >
>> We're just fortunate that someone left the medication text out in the
>> open, that we saw it, and were allowed to read it
>
> I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
> It's "enlightening".
>
I can imagine

Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> flitterbit > wrote:
>
>
>>>>They fortunately agreed to stop administering the drug, all delusions
>>>>stopped, and stepdad's still alive and kicking four years later.
>>>
>>>I am so glad for you that you did that... :-)
>>
>> >
>> >
>>We're just fortunate that someone left the medication text out in the
>>open, that we saw it, and were allowed to read it
>
>
> I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
> It's "enlightening".

Many moons ago I took a bad fall while waterskiing and wound up needing
surgical repair of a hernia. I'd had a pre-op hypo, which was pretty
much like 6 margaritas all at once, and as the attendant was taking me
down to the OR I sat up indian-style on the gurney, grabbed my chart off
of the end of it and began flipping through it. The attendant was
alarmed and told me I wasn't supposed to be reading that, and to give it
back. I remember telling him something like, if he wanted it back he
could try to take it, but I *might* scream. Poor guy. I'm quite sure
they didn't pay him enough for that kind of nonsense.

The last thing I remember is the surgeon and the OR nurse (both short
people), trying to drag me onto the table with arms and legs flopping
everywhere, as I was too far gone to be of much help, and hearing the
doctor demanding, "Who gave her that goddamned shot, she's too big for
this kind of crap".

I gave the surgeon a major ration of shit about that comment the next
day, and he was really embarrassed that I'd not only heard but
remembered it. I remembered it because it ****ed me off. I was 5'11"
and 155 pounds at the time, hardly into the realm of "heap big woman".

In article >,
flitterbit > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > flitterbit > wrote:
> >
> >>>> They fortunately agreed to stop administering the drug, all delusions
> >>>> stopped, and stepdad's still alive and kicking four years later.
> >>> I am so glad for you that you did that... :-)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> We're just fortunate that someone left the medication text out in the
> >> open, that we saw it, and were allowed to read it
> >
> > I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
> > It's "enlightening".
> >
> I can imagine

They do write some rather odd things sometimes. <g>
I sometimes find it to be rather annoying!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

> Many moons ago I took a bad fall while waterskiing and wound up needing
> surgical repair of a hernia. I'd had a pre-op hypo, which was pretty
> much like 6 margaritas all at once, and as the attendant was taking me
> down to the OR I sat up indian-style on the gurney, grabbed my chart off
> of the end of it and began flipping through it. The attendant was
> alarmed and told me I wasn't supposed to be reading that, and to give it
> back. I remember telling him something like, if he wanted it back he
> could try to take it, but I *might* scream. Poor guy. I'm quite sure
> they didn't pay him enough for that kind of nonsense.
>
> The last thing I remember is the surgeon and the OR nurse (both short
> people), trying to drag me onto the table with arms and legs flopping
> everywhere, as I was too far gone to be of much help, and hearing the
> doctor demanding, "Who gave her that goddamned shot, she's too big for
> this kind of crap".
>
> I gave the surgeon a major ration of shit about that comment the next
> day, and he was really embarrassed that I'd not only heard but
> remembered it. I remembered it because it ****ed me off. I was 5'11"
> and 155 pounds at the time, hardly into the realm of "heap big woman".

Oops. ;-) I'd have been ****ed too.

IMHO I have the RIGHT to read my own medical records!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

"flitterbit" > wrote in message
...


>> I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
>> It's "enlightening".
> >
> I can imagine

Last time I looked mine had a big red sticker like vets use. It said
"BITES."

cybercat wrote:

> "flitterbit" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> >> I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
> >> It's "enlightening".
> > >
> > I can imagine
>
> Last time I looked mine had a big red sticker like vets use. It said
> "BITES."


As in flea "BITES"...???


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message
m...
>
>
>
> cybercat wrote:
>
>> "flitterbit" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>> >> I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
>> >> It's "enlightening".
>> > >
>> > I can imagine
>>
>> Last time I looked mine had a big red sticker like vets use. It said
>> "BITES."
>
>
> As in flea "BITES"...???
>

No as in I bite if they hurt me.

There you go, Greg, a major victory. I actually read and responded to one of
your posts. It's a slow day, what can I say.

"Kathleen" > wrote
> I gave the surgeon a major ration of shit about that comment the next day,
> and he was really embarrassed that I'd not only heard but remembered it.
> I remembered it because it ****ed me off. I was 5'11" and 155 pounds at
> the time, hardly into the realm of "heap big woman".
>

To a little man, every woman is big, grasshopper.

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote
>
> Be careful or I'll start getting all sexually aroused...vroooooooom...!!!
>

Little Greggie doesn't go for my type.

cybercat wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message
> m...
> >
> >
> >
> > cybercat wrote:
> >
> >> "flitterbit" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>
> >> >> I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
> >> >> It's "enlightening".
> >> > >
> >> > I can imagine
> >>
> >> Last time I looked mine had a big red sticker like vets use. It said
> >> "BITES."
> >
> >
> > As in flea "BITES"...???
> >
>
> No as in I bite if they hurt me.
>
> There you go, Greg, a major victory. I actually read and responded to one
of
> your posts. It's a slow day, what can I say.


Be careful or I'll start getting all sexually aroused...vroooooooom...!!!

;-p


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:55:03 +0000 (UTC), PeterL >
wrote:

>Damsel in dis Dress > wrote in
:
>
>> But, but, but ... I like you, too, Greg. Wonder how many killfiles
>> I'll be added to for that transgression.
>
>It's your call who you talk to.

Thank you. I guess not everyone is that open-minded.

>>>A person must be *mighty* desperate for "company" by having to engage
>>>in a Usenet lovefest with the likes of a Peterbreath Lucas...Mucus is
>>>playing Om, Damsel, Wayne and some others here for utter fools, it's
>>>amazing that they don't realize that.
>>
>> I've been away for some time. Peter and I exchanged friendly
>> correspondence a couple years ago. Has he changed since then?
>
>You could have just asked me. I *am* right here, you know.

I just wanted to know what Greg's perceptions were. I haven't noticed
a difference in you at all. (Do I have your e-mail address?)

>*OR*...... even just done a quick Google check on my posts for the last
>6 months, and those of that moron morrow, and it's little mates.

To be honest, I'm just too tired from all that's going on here to play
detective right now.

>> I'm
>> seeing a lot of hatred directed toward him, but don't really know why.
>
>To start with, I don't 'talk' with moron morrow, or 3dogs.
>
>They got their titties all in a tangle over it, and have a mutual 'bitch
>fest' over me. Then the stalkers and forgers from ozdebate decided to
>come on in and join the 'fun'. So now moron and 3dogs have "mutual"
>friends that they can all 'gang up' with and act like immature little
>schoolkids. It suits them, because that's what all cowards do.
>
>Because we all know...... cowards are sooooooooooooooooooo much tuffer
>and smarter when they're in a gang.

*sigh*

>I've pointed out the stalkers from ozdebate in the past.
>That grub 'hey-zues' is one of them.
>
>It just had it's aioe.org account cancelled because of it's posts where
>it was forging me...... in this ng.
>
>I *have* warned you about it.

Yes, you have. I've got several of your playmates killfiled. I don't
need the drama.

>It'd be interesting to see morons side of the story :-)

Greg has not contacted me to share his thoughts.

I'm gonna stay neutral as long as I possibly can. Well see how it all
shakes out. You haven't done anything within my line of vision that
would warrant ending our friendship. If other people don't like that,
it's their issue.

Doc, the "utter fool"

In article >,
Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:

> I'm gonna stay neutral as long as I possibly can. Well see how it all
> shakes out. You haven't done anything within my line of vision that
> would warrant ending our friendship. If other people don't like that,
> it's their issue.

I've actually found the ones that are worth it keep an open mind. :-)
They are mature enough to not end a friendship just because you like
someone that they don't...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:09:09 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
>
>> I'm gonna stay neutral as long as I possibly can. Well see how it all
>> shakes out. You haven't done anything within my line of vision that
>> would warrant ending our friendship. If other people don't like that,
>> it's their issue.
>
>I've actually found the ones that are worth it keep an open mind. :-)
>They are mature enough to not end a friendship just because you like
>someone that they don't...

I sorta remember that stuff from junior high .....

Carol

In article >,
Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:09:09 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
> >
> >> I'm gonna stay neutral as long as I possibly can. Well see how it all
> >> shakes out. You haven't done anything within my line of vision that
> >> would warrant ending our friendship. If other people don't like that,
> >> it's their issue.
> >
> >I've actually found the ones that are worth it keep an open mind. :-)
> >They are mature enough to not end a friendship just because you like
> >someone that they don't...
>
> I sorta remember that stuff from junior high .....
>
> Carol

<snicker> Good one!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Damsel in dis Dress > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:55:03 +0000 (UTC), PeterL >
> wrote:
>
>>Damsel in dis Dress > wrote in
m:
>>
>>> But, but, but ... I like you, too, Greg. Wonder how many killfiles
>>> I'll be added to for that transgression.
>>
>>It's your call who you talk to.
>
> Thank you. I guess not everyone is that open-minded.


I'm rather selective in who I talk to. Life's too damn short to waste
time running around in circles with morons.



>>
>>You could have just asked me. I *am* right here, you know.
>
> I just wanted to know what Greg's perceptions were. I haven't noticed
> a difference in you at all. (Do I have your e-mail address?)


You have now.



>>To start with, I don't 'talk' with moron morrow, or 3dogs.
>>
>>They got their titties all in a tangle over it, and have a mutual
'bitch
>>fest' over me. Then the stalkers and forgers from ozdebate decided to
>>come on in and join the 'fun'. So now moron and 3dogs have "mutual"
>>friends that they can all 'gang up' with and act like immature little
>>schoolkids. It suits them, because that's what all cowards do.
>>
>>Because we all know...... cowards are sooooooooooooooooooo much tuffer
>>and smarter when they're in a gang.
>
> *sigh*



Hey!!, it's the truth. Think back to your school days........ did any of
the schoolyard bullies ever do their bullying on their own??

Nope. They had a loyal little band of like minded mutts behind them.



>
>>I've pointed out the stalkers from ozdebate in the past.
>>That grub 'hey-zues' is one of them.
>>
>>It just had it's aioe.org account cancelled because of it's posts
where
>>it was forging me...... in this ng.
>>
>>I *have* warned you about it.
>
> Yes, you have. I've got several of your playmates killfiled. I don't
> need the drama.



Likewise.

All their stalking, and abusing (especially the abuse directed at my
partner, Ruth) is their impotent way of trying to get a rise out of me.

I learnt a looooooooooooooooong time ago to let the pathetic little
creatures self destruct, and not play their little games.


>
> Doc, the "utter fool"


You've been away for awhile, it just takes a bit to get up to speed on
things :-)


BTW, good luck with the move.

Doing it in snow season would be a real PITA :-/

--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS! Das computermachine ist nicht fuer
gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk,
blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fuer gewerken
bei das dumpkopfen. Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das cotten-
pickenen hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das
blinkenlichten

cybercat wrote:
> "flitterbit" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>> I often like to read my own charts at the doc's office. <g>
>>> It's "enlightening".
>>>
>> I can imagine
>
> Last time I looked mine had a big red sticker like vets use. It said
> "BITES."
>
>
LOL! One of our previous cats was a little on the temperamental side;
his file said, "FRACTIOUS!!!!"

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:55:03 +0000, PeterL wrote:

> Damsel in dis Dress > wrote in
> :
>
>> But, but, but ... I like you, too, Greg. Wonder how many killfiles
>> I'll be added to for that transgression.
>
>
> It's your call who you talk to.
>
> I've had that moron morrow killfiled for a loooooooong time.
>
> It seems to be ****ed off at me because I won't talk to it.
>
> It needs to grow up, and move on.
>
>
>>>A person must be *mighty* desperate for "company" by having to engage
>>>in a Usenet lovefest with the likes of a Peterbreath Lucas...Mucus is
>>>playing Om, Damsel, Wayne and some others here for utter fools, it's
>>>amazing that they don't realize that.
>>
>> I've been away for some time. Peter and I exchanged friendly
>> correspondence a couple years ago. Has he changed since then?
>
> You could have just asked me. I *am* right here, you know.
>
> *OR*...... even just done a quick Google check on my posts for the last
> 6 months, and those of that moron morrow, and it's little mates.

LOL at "6 months". A transparently deceptive ploy on your part peter.
Or is it a mere coincidence that it has only been in the past "6 months"
that you've been trying so hard to curtail your psychotic side on Usenet.
I assume this is at the instigation of another person close to you
(kudos to them for the effort btw).

No... little point checking for PL/Skyskum posts of 6 months or less. Any
time prior is good though - particularly on the .aus groups as well as
alt.ozdebate.

<snip>

"flitterbit" > wrote
>>
> LOL! One of our previous cats was a little on the temperamental side; his
> file said, "FRACTIOUS!!!!"

I think that's what mine said until the Unfortunate Incident. Do you have
any idea how they figure out if you have a broken tailbone without an x-ray?
I sure didn't.

"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "flitterbit" > wrote
>>>
>> LOL! One of our previous cats was a little on the temperamental side;
>> his file said, "FRACTIOUS!!!!"
>
> I think that's what mine said until the Unfortunate Incident. Do you have
> any idea how they figure out if you have a broken tailbone without an
> x-ray? I sure didn't.
>

How do you know? One year we had a really bad ice storm and everything was
coated. The walkway I had to use to get to my basement apartment was
downhill and I slipped and the base of my spine has never been the same.
That was at least 15 years ago.

In article >,
"Cheryl" > wrote:

> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "flitterbit" > wrote
> >>>
> >> LOL! One of our previous cats was a little on the temperamental side;
> >> his file said, "FRACTIOUS!!!!"
> >
> > I think that's what mine said until the Unfortunate Incident. Do you have
> > any idea how they figure out if you have a broken tailbone without an
> > x-ray? I sure didn't.
> >
>
> How do you know? One year we had a really bad ice storm and everything was
> coated. The walkway I had to use to get to my basement apartment was
> downhill and I slipped and the base of my spine has never been the same.
> That was at least 15 years ago.

Have you tried a good Chiropractor?
That's worked in the past for me, and it working now.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

"Cheryl" > wrote:
>
> How do you know? One year we had a really bad ice storm and everything
> was coated. The walkway I had to use to get to my basement apartment was
> downhill and I slipped and the base of my spine has never been the same.
> That was at least 15 years ago.

That really hurts, I've fallen on ice that way years ago, with my arms full
of paper grocery bags.
I fell down a flight of steps while sleepwalking (after I quit smoking),
head over heels, bounced off of a step right between L3 and L4 vertebrae
(this is where the step-shaped bruise was) and then landed on my ass on the
slate floor. I knew something was broken when I realized there were tears
running down my face from the pain--really odd as I wasn't upset. I guess it
is some sort of physical response to pain.

There's nothing they can do but give you pain pills and a donut to sit on.
You can't set the coccyx. The worst thing was, I developed sciatica, had
it pretty bad for maybe five years before it went away.

As for how they check, it's the same thing they do during the least pleasant
of all the unpleasant things they do during the dreaded Glove Exam.

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Goomba wrote:
>>
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> > I have the think "the hospital" gets something out of every time
>> > a doctor stops to visit and writes a prescription. Who is looking
>> > out for these helpless people, where no one thought anything of
>> > her being on thirty medications. Here you go, just give her these.
>> >
>> > nancy
>> >
>> I'm curious as to which medicines were really prescribed? 30 meds is
>> VERY unusual in my experience. Renal or transplant patients might be the
>> most dependent on routine meds, but 30 different drugs would still be
>> pushing it....?
>
> Not necessarily, for geriatric patients who are seeing multiple
> prescribers. A former neighbour of ours (who died at age 87) was taking
> about that many different Rxs. Every time she went in she wanted a
> prescription for some illness. Sometimes real but often imagined,
> usually something she had recently read about in some 'health'
> newsletter. In these days of high medical liability settlements, it's
> often 'safer' to just prescribe rather than deny the patient's wishes.
> The woman's daughter didn't give a s*** in any case. Each of her doctors
> just gave her a scrip and she got them filled at different pharmacies.
>
> The pills are probably what killed her; she wasn't really very ill other
> than that.


I concur. I never got those prescriptions filled but there were four
different doctors seeing her at the hospital before she was sent to the
PT/rehab unit. When she finally did come home the scripts were all issued
under one doctor's name (and it certainly wasn't the gerontologist who had
her down to three prescriptions). I only met this doctor one time. It was
before my mother broke her hip while under hospital care. Well before she
wound up on all those medications. He looked a little like a young Desi
Arnaz and my mother commented on how handsome he was. She also pointed out,
"Jill, he's not wearing a wedding ring." Mom, stop that! LOL

Jill