An excellent article in the NYT food section about the old Cochin area
of India and how pepper and other spices are grown, harvested and
prepared for market. Have never traveled in that part of India but
bet it would be really interesting and not a "over touristed" area
either. For those who have a NYT subscription-it is free and their
food section is wunderbar.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/29/di...=all&position=

This is the fifth time I have tried to send this post-hope they all do
not show up-one will do just fine.

butch burton wrote:

> An excellent article in the NYT food section about the old Cochin area
> of India and how pepper and other spices are grown, harvested and
> prepared for market. Have never traveled in that part of India but
> bet it would be really interesting and not a "over touristed" area
> either. For those who have a NYT subscription-it is free and their
> food section is wunderbar.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/29/di...=all&position=
>
> This is the fifth time I have tried to send this post-hope they all do
> not show up-one will do just fine.


We received the first around 9:00 a.m this morning (EST)...

~john!

--
What was it like to see - the face of your own stability - suddenly look
away...

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:55:46 -0600, BubbaBob
> wrote:

[...]
>
>I wasn't aware before reading this excellent article that Viet Nam
>was now the world's leading pepper exporter. I've noticed that most
>peppercorns are smaller the last few years and decidedly inferior in
>flavor to the good tellicherry and malabar pepper that used to be the
>mainstays of the trade. Apparently Vietnamese peppercorns are to real
>peppercorns as Vietnamese coffee beans are to real coffee: A third
>rate substitute foisted on us by the World Bank and a greedy food
>industry.

I suppose that overproduction can screw up most anything. However,
coffee was grown in the highlands of VietNam for decades before there
was a World Bank. Almost all of it was exported to France, where it
was appreciated. Haven't tasted any Vietnamese peppercorns yet, but
I can't see any particular reason why they could not compete with
other SEA growers.

B.Server > wrote in message >. ..
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:55:46 -0600, BubbaBob
> > wrote:
>
> [...]
> >
> >I wasn't aware before reading this excellent article that Viet Nam
> >was now the world's leading pepper exporter. I've noticed that most
> >peppercorns are smaller the last few years and decidedly inferior in
> >flavor to the good tellicherry and malabar pepper that used to be the
> >mainstays of the trade. Apparently Vietnamese peppercorns are to real
> >peppercorns as Vietnamese coffee beans are to real coffee: A third
> >rate substitute foisted on us by the World Bank and a greedy food
> >industry.
>
Did not know Vietnam was now producing volumes of peppercorns. Am
very familiar with what the World Bank did in getting Vietnam involved
in coffee production. With the assistance of some of the big 4 canned
producers they planted vast plantations of robusta coffee for the
yield. This stuff yields such a gross product, the big 4 have
developed a process of treating it with live steam to remove the burnt
truck tire flavor. Now the big deal is to add flavoring. What the
big 4 wanted was a commodity which they controlled and to reduce the
world coffee prices to rock bottom levels and now they have it. The
world coffee price has tanked including the high quality arabica
varietals to the point people are starving. The quality arabica
plantations produce only a fraction of what a robusta plantation will
produce. The prices are so low even the Vietnamese high volume
robusta producers are not happy with their returns.

The big 4 also collect the chaff that is a by product of roasting,
press it into pellets and grind it back into the canned stuff they
call coffee. Was a move to try and legislate that practice out of
existence and the big 4 lobby gang killed that effort. A story of
wanton greed.

> I suppose that overproduction can screw up most anything. However,
> coffee was grown in the highlands of VietNam for decades before there
> was a World Bank. Almost all of it was exported to France, where it
> was appreciated. Haven't tasted any Vietnamese peppercorns yet, but
> I can't see any particular reason why they could not compete with
> other SEA growers.

Glad the last pound of peppercorns I ordered from Pendery's was
sourced in Tellicherry.

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:36:36 -0600, BubbaBob
> wrote:

>B.Server > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I suppose that overproduction can screw up most anything.
>> However, coffee was grown in the highlands of VietNam for
>> decades before there was a World Bank. Almost all of it was
>> exported to France, where it was appreciated. Haven't tasted
>> any Vietnamese peppercorns yet, but I can't see any particular
>> reason why they could not compete with other SEA growers.
>>
>
>Vietnamese coffee production has increased 10,000% (yes, you read
>that right) since the World Bank, Nescafe and a few other major
>players made massive investments in it. 99% of it is the worst swill
>ever sold as cofee in the history of coffee cultivation. There is a
>very small amount of Arabica being experimentally grown but the rest
>is all a particularly poor strain of robusta with a very short
>maturation period. Most of this is grown on land stolen from the
>Montagnard tribes, who are now left without any means of subsistence
>whatever.
>

Some of those "experiments" have been going on for nearly 100 years
according to a local Vietnamese family who import from their family.
Their holdings were broken up in the 1950s-60s after being worked
since 1900 or so. Since 1985 they have gradually been brought back
into production and their markets expanded from France, where 99%
formerly went, to the US and other Asian countries. That is not to
say that everything you mention about the World Bank is not correct.
It is just that there are other Vietnamese coffee growers.


>Most of the pepper you've had in the last 5 years is Vietnamese and
>it's markedly inferior in flavor to what used to be the standards of
>the trade: Malabar and Tellicherry.

So you are saying that the peppercorns that Penzey's, World Spice, and
the like sell as Malabar, Sumatra, or "Indian" are really Vietnamese?
Most disappointing if true, but I tend to doubt it.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:09:07 -0600, BubbaBob
> wrote:

> B.Server > wrote:
>
> >>Most of the pepper you've had in the last 5 years is Vietnamese
> >>and it's markedly inferior in flavor to what used to be the
> >>standards of the trade: Malabar and Tellicherry.
> >
> > So you are saying that the peppercorns that Penzey's, World
> > Spice, and the like sell as Malabar, Sumatra, or "Indian" are
> > really Vietnamese? Most disappointing if true, but I tend to
> > doubt it.
> >
>
> I have no idea of how you got that from what I actually posted. I'm
> referring to the 90% of the pepper trade in the U.S. that has no
> origin stated.

Don't let it bother you.

That's just blather from a "Penzey's" shill.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:09:07 -0600, BubbaBob
> wrote:

>B.Server > wrote:
>
>>>Most of the pepper you've had in the last 5 years is Vietnamese
>>>and it's markedly inferior in flavor to what used to be the
>>>standards of the trade: Malabar and Tellicherry.
>>
>> So you are saying that the peppercorns that Penzey's, World
>> Spice, and the like sell as Malabar, Sumatra, or "Indian" are
>> really Vietnamese? Most disappointing if true, but I tend to
>> doubt it.
>>
>
>I have no idea of how you got that from what I actually posted. I'm
>referring to the 90% of the pepper trade in the U.S. that has no
>origin stated.

Read your post. "Most of the pepper you've had in the last 5
years..."

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:45:31 GMT, sf > wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:09:07 -0600, BubbaBob
> wrote:
>
>> B.Server > wrote:
>>
>> >>Most of the pepper you've had in the last 5 years is Vietnamese
>> >>and it's markedly inferior in flavor to what used to be the
>> >>standards of the trade: Malabar and Tellicherry.
>> >
>> > So you are saying that the peppercorns that Penzey's, World
>> > Spice, and the like sell as Malabar, Sumatra, or "Indian" are
>> > really Vietnamese? Most disappointing if true, but I tend to
>> > doubt it.
>> >
>>
>> I have no idea of how you got that from what I actually posted. I'm
>> referring to the 90% of the pepper trade in the U.S. that has no
>> origin stated.
>
>Don't let it bother you.
>
>That's just blather from a "Penzey's" shill.

Read my post. "Penzey's, World Spice, and the like". If you are
determined to be completely mindless, at least suggest that I am a
shill for unrelated businesses 1300 miles apart. Or just can the
crap. Your choice.

In article > ,
BubbaBob > wrote:

> B.Server > wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >>I have no idea of how you got that from what I actually posted.
> >>I'm referring to the 90% of the pepper trade in the U.S. that
> >>has no origin stated.
> >
> > Read your post. "Most of the pepper you've had in the last 5
> > years..."
> >
>
> I wasn't directing the statement specifically at you, for god's sake.
> It's a general statement, aimed at the entire pepper-using population
> of the planet. Since most of the pepper marketed worldwide in the
> last 5 years is Vietnamese, I stand by my statement.

Are you terminally dense? You posted your comment to a group in
which you may assume that most do _not_ buy "generic" pepper.

That being so, writing "Most of the pepper _you've_ had in the
last 5 years" is Vietnamese is simply moronic. Subpar pepper may
have been inflicted on me in restaurants, or (more likely) in the
cost-drive pretense of a cafeteria at work. But I assure you that
_most_ of the pepper I've had in the last 5 years comes from a
few well-regarded traditional pepper-growing regions. That's how
I _buy_ the stuff, after all.

If you wish to do a chicken-little alarmist dance about the
general quality of pepper currently imported into the US, fine --
but you should attempt, in that case, to say what you mean instead
of making yourself look like an idiot.

In article > ,
BubbaBob > wrote:

> Michael Siemon > wrote:
>
> > Are you terminally dense? You posted your comment to a group in
> > which you may assume that most do _not_ buy "generic" pepper.
> >
>
> You have a highly inflated view of the tastes of the posters to this
> newsgroup. Hell, most of them can't even boil water without scorching
> it.

How nice for you, with your unfounded notion of superiority
to the group -- why do you bother posting to those whom you
hold in such contempt? Need their fawning on your dribble?
(and imagine that, in lieu of any justification...?)

Blecch. Learn to write in a manner that does not self-destruct,
or enjoy your status as an incompetent (and presumably arrested)
adolescent.