Hello again...

I'm new to all this cooking stuff, just so you know. As a teenager my
mom used to always try to pull me into the kitchen to teach me stuff,
and i'd always be 'too busy' with stuff at the time....

....she *tried*. I give her all the credit for that. But now, I have
to learn it all on my own. But here's some questions:


1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read in many
cases. HOWEVER.... does this apply only to wooden-handled knives? I
have a set of knives that are all one-piece stainless steel. No wood
anywhere. Are these ok to dishwash?

2) "Never put copper bottom pans in the dishwasher" is something I've
read many times as well. I have an old set of Revere pans with copper
bottoms. What happens when you dishwash them? Does it just discolor
the copper? Can I buff it back out again someday? Mine are all
pretty tarnished anyways (I got them second hand).

3) Can i use one of those old-style oven-going thermometers in the
slow cooker too? My thoughts on this are that it would be great to be
able to use the slow cooker as a miniature oven in the summertime. I
could roast things in it on HI while putting less heat into the place
as compared to using a conventional oven. Once things hit 160F in the
center they're pretty much done and ready to eat, right?

Thanks.

"phaeton" > wrote in message
>
> 1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read in many
> cases. HOWEVER.... does this apply only to wooden-handled knives? I
> have a set of knives that are all one-piece stainless steel. No wood
> anywhere. Are these ok to dishwash?

Dishwashers use very caustic cleaners and combined with the force of hte
water and things bouncing around, good knives can be damaged on the edge.
You can put in your butter knives, just not the good chef's knive and the
like.
>
> 2) "Never put copper bottom pans in the dishwasher" is something I've
> read many times as well. I have an old set of Revere pans with copper
> bottoms. What happens when you dishwash them? Does it just discolor
> the copper? Can I buff it back out again someday? Mine are all
> pretty tarnished anyways (I got them second hand).

My good copper never goes in the DW. Again, the caustic detergent is not so
good for them but I'd put Revereware in. It may discolor but who cares?.
Maybe someone that has done it can give a better answer.


>
> 3) Can i use one of those old-style oven-going thermometers in the
> slow cooker too? My thoughts on this are that it would be great to be
> able to use the slow cooker as a miniature oven in the summertime. I
> could roast things in it on HI while putting less heat into the place
> as compared to using a conventional oven. Once things hit 160F in the
> center they're pretty much done and ready to eat, right?

You can use the thermometer, but 160 is not a magic number. Some things
will be overdone, others still need time. I don't think the pot will get
hot enough to "bake" anything. They are designed to work with liquid as
liquid transfers heat much better than air.

What do you plan to roast? With the lid on, you wont' get crispy skin on
chicken, you won't get any browning, with the lid off, you won't get any
heat.

Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>Dishwashers use very caustic cleaners and combined with the force of hte
>water and things bouncing around, good knives can be damaged on the edge.
>You can put in your butter knives, just not the good chef's knive and the
>like.

Restaurants have lots of dishwashing machines and lots of good
chef's knives.

How do they wash them?

(I'm wondering if the answer is "they don't"...)

S.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:13:21 -0800 (PST), phaeton
> shouted from the highest rooftop:

>Hello again...
>
>I'm new to all this cooking stuff, just so you know. As a teenager my
>mom used to always try to pull me into the kitchen to teach me stuff,
>and i'd always be 'too busy' with stuff at the time....
>
>...she *tried*. I give her all the credit for that. But now, I have
>to learn it all on my own. But here's some questions:
>
>
>1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read in many
>cases. HOWEVER.... does this apply only to wooden-handled knives? I
>have a set of knives that are all one-piece stainless steel. No wood
>anywhere. Are these ok to dishwash?

Short answer. Yes. But not anything (knives included) with wooden,
bone, or acetate handles (which may crack in the heat). But silver,
silver plate and stainless seem to benefit from being washed in a
dishwasher.

BTW - I wipe my steel Sabatier knives clean with a damp cloth and dry
ASAP after using and wash all my S/S Sabatier and Zanger knives by
hand, whether they have wooden or acetate handles. Imagine my horror
when I discovered my wife's cousin cutting oranges on a plate instead
of a cutting board with one of them!!! It also left slice marks on the
porcelin plate. Duhhhh.

>2) "Never put copper bottom pans in the dishwasher" is something I've
>read many times as well. I have an old set of Revere pans with copper
>bottoms. What happens when you dishwash them? Does it just discolor
>the copper? Can I buff it back out again someday? Mine are all
>pretty tarnished anyways (I got them second hand).

We have a set of S/S copper bottomed saucepans we've been putting in
the dishwasher for well over 30 years without any ill effects. Then we
don't worry about the copper not being shiinny and bright.

>3) Can i use one of those old-style oven-going thermometers in the
>slow cooker too? My thoughts on this are that it would be great to be
>able to use the slow cooker as a miniature oven in the summertime. I
>could roast things in it on HI while putting less heat into the place
>as compared to using a conventional oven. Once things hit 160F in the
>center they're pretty much done and ready to eat, right?

You've lost me on that one. Sorry ...

>Thanks.

--

una cerveza mas por favor ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:13:21 -0800 (PST), phaeton
> wrote:

>Hello again...
>
>I'm new to all this cooking stuff, just so you know. As a teenager my
>mom used to always try to pull me into the kitchen to teach me stuff,
>and i'd always be 'too busy' with stuff at the time....
>
>...she *tried*. I give her all the credit for that. But now, I have
>to learn it all on my own. But here's some questions:
>
>
>1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read in many
>cases. HOWEVER.... does this apply only to wooden-handled knives? I
>have a set of knives that are all one-piece stainless steel. No wood
>anywhere. Are these ok to dishwash?

I guess it applies to handles on cheap knives, but on better knives
they're really talking about blades not staying sharp.
>
>2) "Never put copper bottom pans in the dishwasher" is something I've
>read many times as well. I have an old set of Revere pans with copper
>bottoms. What happens when you dishwash them? Does it just discolor
>the copper? Can I buff it back out again someday? Mine are all
>pretty tarnished anyways (I got them second hand).

I have no idea. I don't put pots & pans in the dishwasher because I
don't have the room. I would think a DW would take any tarnish off...
but if they're only coated with copper, I guess it could wear off
faster.
>
>3) Can i use one of those old-style oven-going thermometers in the
>slow cooker too? My thoughts on this are that it would be great to be
>able to use the slow cooker as a miniature oven in the summertime. I
>could roast things in it on HI while putting less heat into the place
>as compared to using a conventional oven.
>
Never thought about it. I guess so. Why not just spend $6 on an
instant read thermometer?

>Once things hit 160F in the center they're pretty much done and ready
>to eat, right?

It seems to me that if you think you'll need a thermometer, you're
probably not going to cook whatever meat it is long enough to make it
tender.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

phaeton wrote:
> Hello again...
>
> I'm new to all this cooking stuff, just so you know. As a teenager my
> mom used to always try to pull me into the kitchen to teach me stuff,
> and i'd always be 'too busy' with stuff at the time....
>
> ...she *tried*. I give her all the credit for that. But now, I have
> to learn it all on my own. But here's some questions:
>
>
> 1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read in many
> cases. HOWEVER.... does this apply only to wooden-handled knives? I
> have a set of knives that are all one-piece stainless steel. No wood
> anywhere. Are these ok to dishwash?

Probably, if they are one piece stainless. Wood handles get the finish
worn off and then the wood swells and warps. Real silver knives have a
stainless blade that is glued into the handle and the heat loosens the
glue joint in time. My stainless knives have been fine.

>
> 2) "Never put copper bottom pans in the dishwasher" is something I've
> read many times as well. I have an old set of Revere pans with copper
> bottoms. What happens when you dishwash them? Does it just discolor
> the copper? Can I buff it back out again someday? Mine are all
> pretty tarnished anyways (I got them second hand).

I don't know the answer to this one. You can get the finish back on
your tarnished pans either with a mixture of vinegar and salt, or even
better, a cleanser made for copper.

> 3) Can i use one of those old-style oven-going thermometers in the
> slow cooker too? My thoughts on this are that it would be great to be
> able to use the slow cooker as a miniature oven in the summertime. I
> could roast things in it on HI while putting less heat into the place
> as compared to using a conventional oven. Once things hit 160F in the
> center they're pretty much done and ready to eat, right?

I don't think so. Even the "High" setting on the slow-cooker isn't
really that hot. Slow cookers are made for simmering or braising.
My first attic apartment right out of college was equipped with only a
two burner hotplate and one of those turkey roaster ovens. It worked
quote well as a regular oven and even provided enough heat to bake cakes.

I look forward to seeing other people's replies.

gloria p

(Steve Pope) wrote in news:gj6vdl$620$1
@blue.rahul.net:

>
> Restaurants have lots of dishwashing machines and lots of good
> chef's knives.
>
> How do they wash them?
>


Number one rule in a dishroom is to never bring chef's knives in there.
It's to protect the dishwashers from accidentally cutting themselves when
they didn't know there were sharp knives in the sink, wash basin, etc.
This does not mean that it never happens.

> (I'm wondering if the answer is "they don't"...)

Most professional cooks/chefs handwash their own knives.Another reason
for not bringing it to the dishwasher is that if you wash your own
knives, then you're guaranteed to get your knife back after cleaning.
Throwing it in a bin for the dishwasher to wash does not guarantee that
you will see that knife again or in a timely manner.

In article >,
Janet Baraclough > wrote:

> The message >
> from (Steve Pope) contains these words:
>
>
> > Restaurants have lots of dishwashing machines and lots of good
> > chef's knives.
>
> > How do they wash them?
>
> Every professional chef I ever met had his own knife set (which did
> not belong to the restaurant) which never went near a dishwasher and
> which no other kitchen staff were allowed to use.
> They were individually hand washed, often by their owner. Sometimes by
> someone else trusted to do it properly (never letting go of the handle
> in the washing sink). In large kitchens chefs usually take their
> cleaned knife set away with them when they go off-duty or lock it into
> their locker.
>
> Janet

I would not blame them...
I cannot believe the way some people abuse knives!

Mine get a quick wash with hot soapy water as soon as I'm done with
them, get hand dried then put away.

Don't abuse your knives and they won't abuse _you_. <g>
A sharp knife is a safe knife.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

You can do anything you want with cheap knives. They wont hold a keen
edge, anyway. But if you have a GOOD knife, it is a fine tool and
deserves hand washing.
My French knife has never seen the inside of the dishwasher and never
will. Nor has it ever been submerged in the sink. I wash it after each
use under running hot water with some dish detergent rubbed on by hand.
I keep my steel handy and give the blade a few strokes before each use.
The knife I paid 100 bucks for ten years ago is as sharp today as it was
then.

I dont own any copper, sad to say...but IF I were so furtunate, you can
bet I would treat them with the respect they deserve.

The detergent we use in dishwashers is mighty strong stuff---made to eat
theu dried on food...and WAY corrosive. See what happens to clear
plastic glasses? How they get all...cloudy and scratched-looking?
That's the corrosive nature of the detergent. Eventually it will
destroy the finish of even the most expensive non-stick pots. I have a
good, albeit old set of good cookwarwe that I KEEP in shape by NOT
putting it in the dishwasher. Any piece can still cook an egg without
sticking.

Please do your copperware a favor! Get some copper cleaner and restore
their beauty! Then, please wash them by hand!

I dont know about "roasting" in a slow cooker...? I mean, to the best
of my knowledge, you MUST add liquid, so your product will be "braised",
rather than "roasted" (dry).

I guess checking the temp is important if, say, you are slow cooking a
roast you want to serve medium or medium rare....but I've never used my
slow cooker for that. Ive used it for "pot" roast and pork butt....and
I can tell it's done when it begins to be easy to shred, the "fall
apart" test, LOL.

For a beginning cook, I strongly suggest watching all the Food network
you can. I've only learned to cook over the last six years and learned
just about everything I know from watching the TV cooks. Well, that and
practice!

Lass

"How do restaurants wash their Chef's knives?"

BY HAND.

Ive worked in quite a few professional kitchens and believe me, IF you
want to see a Chef go into a killing RAGE, just TOUCH his knife.

A common "saying" in a restaurant Kitchen is, "Keep your hands off my
Johnson...and keep your hands off my knife." Another is, "You can
borrow my WIFE...but not my KNIFE."


Very often, a Chef will not even LET someone else wash his knives. This
may sound silly but really, a Chef is only nas good as the knife he uses
They get REAL protective of them.

Lass


Three silly questions about kitchen equipment

Group: rec.food.cooking Date: Sun, Dec 28, 2008, 4:30am (EST+5) From:
(Steve*Pope)
Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
Dishwashers use very caustic cleaners and combined with the force of hte
water and things bouncing around, good knives can be damaged on the
edge. You can put in your butter knives, just not the good chef's knive
and the like.
Restaurants have lots of dishwashing machines and lots of good chef's
knives.
How do they wash them?
(I'm wondering if the answer is "they don't"...)
S.

On Dec 27, 8:13*pm, phaeton > wrote:
> ....
> 1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read in many
> cases. *HOWEVER.... does this apply only to wooden-handled knives? *I
> have a set of knives that are all one-piece stainless steel. *No wood
> anywhere. *Are these ok to dishwash?

No. The basic rule, to be practiced 99.44 percent of the time, is:
Use the knife, immediately rinse or wash it, dry it, and put it away.
This takes only seconds and solves many problems. Put another way:
the knife doesn't leave your hand. You take it out of its rack, use
it, rinse it or wipe with soapy water and then rinse it, dry it, put
it away. Every time. The only places it should ever be is in the
rack or in your hand. Not only does this keep it away from caustic
chemicals and having its edge banged up, it also means no accidents.
-aem

In article >,
(Lass Chance_2) wrote:

> "How do restaurants wash their Chef's knives?"
>
> BY HAND.
>
> Ive worked in quite a few professional kitchens and believe me, IF you
> want to see a Chef go into a killing RAGE, just TOUCH his knife.
>
> A common "saying" in a restaurant Kitchen is, "Keep your hands off my
> Johnson...and keep your hands off my knife." Another is, "You can
> borrow my WIFE...but not my KNIFE."
>
>
> Very often, a Chef will not even LET someone else wash his knives. This
> may sound silly but really, a Chef is only nas good as the knife he uses
> They get REAL protective of them.
>
> Lass

Any tools of the trades. :-)

Other craftsmen are just as protective of their tools, especially
electricians.

People just love to steal tools, and abuse knives.

I hide my most often used/favorite ones. I keep them in the drawer next
to the stove that dad never gets in to instead of the main knife drawer.

Dad has this "thing" about sharpening knives against each other! Blade
to blade. Dulls the hell out of them and I have to start from scratch to
re-hone them. :-(

I don't know where the hell he got that from!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

> I dont own any copper, sad to say...but IF I were so furtunate, you can
> bet I would treat them with the respect they deserve.

They're apparently "just Revere", and my knives are "just" Chicago
Cutlery. I dunno... -I- like them. :-)

>
> The detergent we use in dishwashers is mighty strong stuff---made to eat
> theu dried on food...and WAY corrosive. *See what happens to clear
> plastic glasses? *How they get all...cloudy and scratched-looking?

Is there any less corrosive detergent available, perchance? I never
let food get dried onto anything. When I see other people not
scraping/rinsing off their plates after a meal it annoys me.

> For a beginning cook, I strongly suggest watching all the Food network
> you can. *

I'm constantly debating as to whether or not I should get cable.
Thing is, most TV doesn't appeal to me, but The History Channel is my
vice. I've watched the Food Network a number of times, and while it
is at least entertaining, I find that the stuff they make there is a
few levels up from me in skill, or they make a lot of things that I
probably wouldn't. As far as just getting the extreme basics down,
I've done quite well (at least I think) with an old 1960s copy of The
Joy Of Cooking and a brand new Better Homes n Gardens cookbook. Got
them both at a used book store, paid about $20 total. I find a main
course that sounds good, one or more sides, plan it out, make a
grocery list, get the stuff, set aside the time, follow the steps, and
it works. I know this is obvious to everyone else, but I'm learning a
lot of stuff for every-day meal construction and enjoying it every
step. All my friends think i'm kinda 'fruity' or 'effeminate', but to
heck with them. They can live off frozen pizza and ramen the rest of
their lives. I won't.

phaeton wrote:
>
> 1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read in many
> cases. �HOWEVER.... does this apply only to wooden-handled knives? �I
> have a set of knives that are all one-piece stainless steel. �No wood
> anywhere. �Are these ok to dishwash?

Stainless steel is an alloy of various metals (ordinary iron being a
main ingredient), there are many grades, food grade stainless is not
really very impervious, in fact it is one of the least impervious to
acids and bases... were it designed more impervious (say like marine
grade) it couldn't be honed to a sharp enough edge for kitchen work,
as being so thin it would be too brittle and bits would easily chip
off. Auto dishwasher compounds are quite caustic and will pit the
very thin business portion of a sharp knife... the sharper the knife
the more it will become damaged. Dishwashing compounds need to be
caustic otherwise the machine could not clean dishes in so limited
amount of time, the dishwashing machine has no means to abrade the
schmutz away like one can when washing by hand with some sort of
scrubbie.

Professional cooks typically own their knives, they hand wash them
themselves... and they don't wash their knives very often or they'd
not have time to cook, during their shift they wipe their knives with
a rag not necessarily a very clean rag either. They wash their knives
at the end of their shift, there is no soap permitted in the food prep
areas of any commercial kitchen, no glassware either, when you see
cooks sipping wine from stemware on foodtv that's fake, when they use
clear glass mixing bowls so you can see inside, that's fake too.

Meat cutters at the stupidmarket typically use a knife service that
owns the knives, they are cleaned after hours, usually in the wee
morning hours when a privately contracted cleaning crew comes in to
steam clean every square inch including all machinery and cutlery.
New health codes no longer permit commercial establishments to use
wooden handles and wooden work surfaces. Don't ever place any sharps
into a sink or dishwasher... never ever hand someone a sharp tool...
place it down on a surface so they can pick it up themselves... and
never ever accept a knife being handed to you, make them place it down
and then pick it up yourself.

> 2) "Never put copper bottom pans in the dishwasher" �is something I've
> read many times as well. �I have an old set of Revere pans with copper
> bottoms. �What happens when you dishwash them? �Does it just discolor
> the copper? �Can I buff it back out again someday? �Mine are all
> pretty tarnished anyways (I got them second hand).

Dishwashing compounds will pit copper and aluminum... even stainless
steel will eventually become pitted... with stainless you just won't
so readily notice. First a microscopic hole occurs that fills with
the caustic material, over time and with subsequent washings the
cavity will enlarge below the surface where you can't see, exactly how
caries occur in teeth. Eventually there will be a hole eaten all the
way through... keep in mind many of such errosions are occuring
simultaneously, often they join and create a latticework of tunnels,
like your expensive stainless cookware is infested with termites...
the worst part of which is that they harbor a great deal of schmutz
that will become part of your stew. Your expensive designer pots will
look all shiney but if you wash them by machine, after a few months
they will become scrap metal. I wash all my pots by hand... pots
don't fit into dishwashers very well anyway, so they interfere with
washing the smaller items sitting above... it's a false economy to
machine wash pots... restaurants wash all pots by hand.

> 3) Can i use one of those old-style oven-going thermometers in the
> slow cooker too? �

Sure you can, but for what purpose.... slow cookers have preset
temperatures, usually hi & lo. Slow cookers only work with liquids.
I can see using a insta read thermometer to check the temperature of a
new slow cooker just out of curiosity, you can't change it. There do
exist table top roasters that work with relatively dry heat, and allow
infinite temperature settings.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:30:36 -0700, Gloria P >
wrote:

>Wood handles get the finish worn off and then the wood swells and warps.

I have to comment that they must be *really* cheap. I have a serrated
(old fashioned scalloped "sawtooth" design) that I paid maybe $3 for
at the grocery store. It's fairly well made because the tine goes all
the way up the handle and it's riveted.... but the hand is wooden. I
have no qualms throwing it into the dishwasher, ever. I've been
trying to think how long I've had it. I got it long before I was
married and I've been married for 36 years, so it's *old*. The handle
is still going strong and I use it whenever I need a knife like
that.... let's say for cutting crusty bread.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:52 -0800 (PST), phaeton
> wrote:

>They're apparently "just Revere",

If they're my mother's Revere - they're thin. I don't like them.
Newer Revere has thicker bottoms, but I still don't see why there
would be a problem throwing them in the dishwasher.

>and my knives are "just" Chicago Cutlery. I dunno... -I- like them. :-)

Isn't Chicago Cutlery a decent brand? I thought it was. Treat them
the way they *should* be treated and they'll last you a lifetime.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Dec 27, 9:58*pm, Alan Ladd > wrote:
> (Steve Pope) wrote in news:gj6vdl$620$1
> @blue.rahul.net:
>
>
>
> > Restaurants have lots of dishwashing machines and lots of good
> > chef's knives.
>
> > How do they wash them?
>
> Number one rule in a dishroom is to never bring chef's knives in there.
> It's to protect the dishwashers from accidentally cutting themselves when
> they didn't know there were sharp knives in the sink, wash basin, etc.
> This does not mean that it never happens.
>
> > (I'm wondering if the answer is "they don't"...)
>
> Most professional cooks/chefs handwash their own knives.Another reason
> for not bringing it to the dishwasher is that if you wash your own
> knives, then you're guaranteed to get your knife back after cleaning.
> Throwing it in a bin for the dishwasher to wash does not guarantee that
> you will see that knife again or in a timely manner.

You are right on with your answer!

Steve Pope > wrote:

> Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>Dishwashers use very caustic cleaners and combined with the force of hte
>>water and things bouncing around, good knives can be damaged on the edge.
>>You can put in your butter knives, just not the good chef's knive and the
>>like.
>
> Restaurants have lots of dishwashing machines and lots of good
> chef's knives.
>
> How do they wash them?

Each chef brings his own knives to/from work and washes them by
hand.

-sw

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:16:26 -0800, sf wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:52 -0800 (PST), phaeton
> > wrote:
>
>>They're apparently "just Revere",
>
> If they're my mother's Revere - they're thin. I don't like them.
> Newer Revere has thicker bottoms, but I still don't see why there
> would be a problem throwing them in the dishwasher.
>
>>and my knives are "just" Chicago Cutlery. I dunno... -I- like them. :-)
>
> Isn't Chicago Cutlery a decent brand? I thought it was. Treat them
> the way they *should* be treated and they'll last you a lifetime.

i have one of their boning knives that i like and use quite a lot. carbon
steel, so i can sharpen it myself.

your pal,
blake

Yes, it IS all craft6smen and their Tools.
My dad was a carpenter and cabinet builder. He used to spray paint his
tools HOT PINK....because "nobody steals pink tools."

Lass


Three silly questions about kitchen equipment

Group: rec.food.cooking Date: Sun, Dec 28, 2008, 10:38am (EST-1) From:
(Omelet)
In article >,
(Lass Chance_2) wrote:
"How do restaurants wash their Chef's knives?"
BY HAND.
Ive worked in quite a few professional kitchens and believe me, IF you
want to see a Chef go into a killing RAGE, just TOUCH his knife.
A common "saying" in a restaurant Kitchen is, "Keep your hands off my
Johnson...and keep your hands off my knife." Another is, "You can borrow
my WIFE...but not my KNIFE."
Very often, a Chef will not even LET someone else wash his knives. This
may sound silly but really, a Chef is only nas good as the knife he uses
They get REAL protective of them.
Lass
Any tools of the trades. :-)
Other craftsmen are just as protective of their tools, especially
electricians.
People just love to steal tools, and abuse knives.
I hide my most often used/favorite ones. I keep them in the drawer next
to the stove that dad never gets in to instead of the main knife drawer.
Dad has this "thing" about sharpening knives against each other! Blade
to blade. Dulls the hell out of them and I have to start from scratch to
re-hone them. :-(
I don't know where the hell he got that from!
--
Peace! Om
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them
humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:21:58 -0800 (PST), merryb >
wrote:

>On Dec 27, 9:58*pm, Alan Ladd > wrote:
>> (Steve Pope) wrote in news:gj6vdl$620$1
>> @blue.rahul.net:
>>
>You are right on with your answer!

Havng said all that, small operations often do wash their knives in
the clipper or DW, to sanitize as well as clean. Commercial grade
knives (dexter-russel and mundial) are designed to go into that
clipper. Their handles are DW-safe and, if they lose a bit of edge,
well, that's what sharpening steels are for.

OTOH: When did you last see a sushi chef put any of his blades
into a DW? Not bloody likely, I'd say.

My rule: Generally my good knives (Wusthof, Forschner, Henkel)
go into the DW NEVER. With one exception: I have a polymer-
handled tomato knife (sawtooth edge) by Henkel that gets washed
on a reg basis in the DW. Doesn't seem to bother it. Wife puts her
Kitchenaid small santoku in (I can't stop her!) and I find myself
sharpening said blade 3 times as much as I do my own Henkel.
We also put Henkel (I think they're Henkel...) paring sets in
the DW, partially because the "sheeps-foot" parer is so easy
to sharpen. The birds-beak parer, OTOH, is a b***h to
sharpen.

Oh, Well. HTH

Alexc

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:16:53 -0800, sf > wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:13:21 -0800 (PST), phaeton
> wrote:
>
>>3) Can i use one of those old-style oven-going thermometers in the
>>slow cooker too? My thoughts on this are that it would be great to be
>>able to use the slow cooker as a miniature oven in the summertime. I
>>could roast things in it on HI while putting less heat into the place
>>as compared to using a conventional oven.
>>
>Never thought about it. I guess so. Why not just spend $6 on an
>instant read thermometer?
>
Probably because removing the lid allows heat loss and screws up your
timing. Having said that, I have 3 crock-pots of varying mfr, one of
which is a 3 qt rival w/plastic lid. I hit a thrift store and bought a
spare lid for $1.00, drilled a small hole in it and run my #1
electronic thermometer probe through it if I need to. Also, if
you drill the hole *just* big enough for the steel probe part
of your instant read thermometer, you can actually monitor the
progress of your slow cooker. Don't try drilling the glass lids...

You *could* put a smalll bain-marie in the CP, with some
sort of flat cover and put your oven thermometer on top of that
I guess, though moisture wouldl probably rust it up before long.


Alex

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:46:59 -0500, (Lass
Chance_2) wrote:

>
>I dont know about "roasting" in a slow cooker...? I mean, to the best
>of my knowledge, you MUST add liquid, so your product will be "braised",
>rather than "roasted" (dry).
>

Well, you can (but I can't think of why anyone would
actually want to...). This is another good reason for
checking out a good tome on slow cookers. Say,
Ethel Lang Graham's book. Seems SC's run about
165 degrees on Lo and about 195 on Hi. This is
barely enough for a chuck roast in a brown-in bag,
IMHO. Your better off saving your spare change and
getting a refurb'ed Convection oven, maybe one of
those glass turbo-type table-top things. They will
easily get up to roasting temps and, with the glass
ones, you can monitor the progress of your dish
with ease. They do get hot, tho, so treat with
respect. Placing/reading the thermometer is easy.

FYI: In order of frequency of use in our kitchen:

1: Built-in Jenn-Aire, gas.
2: Refurb'ed Farberware Conv. Oven, elec.
3. Used Perfection-Aire Turbo-Convection
oven (Galloping Gourmet, bought at thrift shop).

Alex

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:55:40 GMT, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:16:26 -0800, sf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:52 -0800 (PST), phaeton
>> > wrote:
>>



>> Isn't Chicago Cutlery a decent brand? I thought it was. Treat them
>> the way they *should* be treated and they'll last you a lifetime.
>
>i have one of their boning knives that i like and use quite a lot. carbon
>steel, so i can sharpen it myself.
>
My meat saber is a CC. Good knife. My best, thhough?
1: 7" chef's. Sabatier, Elephant, black steel
2. 7" slicer, ditto.
3. 7" FLex. boner/fillet, brand unknown. Bought the blade
(440 stainless, Cryo-tempered minus 305 degrees) at
a custom knife shop. Cost 17-18 USD. Bone handle.
Never even *hears* the word "dishwasher". <G>

Alex

Man...you must really HATE bwashing dishes by hand!

I dont know if there is a "less corrosive" DW detergent...Frankly, I
think you mighh just need to accept the fact of hand washing pots, pans
and good knives.

You got a couple of the very best cook books, there, for a new cook.
Good for you!

If you dont have cable, I guess that's OUT. You will do fine as you are
doing, pick a recipe, follow it and enjoy the results. With practice,
techniques will become second nature.

I LOVE to braise meat. You cant mess it up! Take anything...chicken
parts, a pork butt, a beef roast...brown it on all sides in a VERY hot
skillet with a TBS. or two of oil....then add two cups of broth and a
cup of red or white wine....salt and pepper,, garlic, whatever herbs you
like...and into the oven at 300 for a couple of hours.(If you have a
heavy Dutch oven with a lid, that is perfect for both the browning AND
the oven finishing.) Adding onions, carrots, whatever, only adds to the
flavor!

You almost CANT over cook with this method...take the meat out when it
falls apart! Do this with a chicken, add mushrooms, use red wine...and
youve got Coq au Vin! Do it with a pork butt, then shred the meat and
add BBQ sauce...and you've got authentic Southern pulled pork.(no wine
for that one, just water or stock) For this, toss in a palm full of
whole black peppercorns and a LOT of garlic powder. The pork is done
when it shreds easily.

Do it with a veal shank or a lamb shank...add a splash of red wine
vinegar at the end if you like....do it with a less-expensive beef
roast, add new potatoes, carrots and onions after the first hour in the
oven and you've got a classic pot roast.

Learn to make GOOD rice---all these braised meats go great with rice!
(or cous-cous)

People have all sorts of problems making rice...and I dont know why!
There's nothing easier and I will tell you exactly how to mae perfect
rice every time.

Get Basmati or Uncle Ben's. This is CRITICAL.
Put two cups of water in a heavy-ish sauce pan that has a tight lid. add
a good pinch (1/2 tsp or so) of salt. Bring to a boil.

Add the rice. Cover and reduce heat to a light simmer. DO NOT REMOVE
THE LID, EVER!

Set a timer. The timing is CRUCIAL. Basmati takes exactly 18 minutes.
Uncle Ben's takes 20.

At the exact time, turn off the heat but dont raise the lid. Just let
the rice continue to steam inside the pot until you are ready to serve.
When you remove the lid, fluff the rice with a fork.

This is a no-fail method, used by many generations of my family, a LONG
line of rice cooks.

ALL veggies are GREAT when roasted. Take a mix of whatever vegs YOU
like, cut into same size chunks, toss in olive oil, salt and
pepper...spread out on a baking sheet and roast for 30045 minutes, at
425, turning once.

With just this info, alone, you are empowered to make MANY great braised
dishes. Add a nice salad and a baguete and anybody will be impressed.
Plus, the braising liquid is a perfect sauce, just as is, to serve on
the rice.... OR remove the meat, then use a strainer to remove the
carrots, onions, whatever, for a "finer" sauce. Consider adding a Tbs.
of grainy mustard to the sauce before serving...or a splash of
cream...or both.

The beauty part is, this is a "one pot" meal. For a person who lives
alone, it can be several days of dinners....

I made the braised chicken last night with all thighs, skin removed. I
was out of wine, so I used a little extra chicken broth and finished the
dish at the end with a splash of sherry vinegar. Outstanding!

Oh, one more thing...the first step, the browning, should not be
hurried! You want a DARK brown sear on all sides. This produces a
depth of flavor that will carry thru.

Lass

Lass Chance_2 wrote:
> Man...you must really HATE bwashing dishes by hand!
>
> I dont know if there is a "less corrosive" DW detergent...Frankly, I
> think you mighh just need to accept the fact of hand washing pots, pans
> and good knives.
>
While I would never put my good knives in the DW, my pots and pans
routinely go there. The DW leaves them shining and clean, not abused in
any way. My few Revere copper bottomed pots/pans actually look better
for it as I long ago gave up worrying about a little discoloration to
the copper bottoms.

blake murphy wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:16:26 -0800, sf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:52 -0800 (PST), phaeton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> They're apparently "just Revere",
>> If they're my mother's Revere - they're thin. I don't like them.
>> Newer Revere has thicker bottoms, but I still don't see why there
>> would be a problem throwing them in the dishwasher.
>>
>>> and my knives are "just" Chicago Cutlery. I dunno... -I- like them. :-)
>> Isn't Chicago Cutlery a decent brand? I thought it was. Treat them
>> the way they *should* be treated and they'll last you a lifetime.
>
> i have one of their boning knives that i like and use quite a lot. carbon
> steel, so i can sharpen it myself.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>
>
That's why we bought Chicago Cutlery knives 25+ years ago; they're still
going strong, and we can sharpen them ourselves whenever necessary.

Chemiker wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:55:40 GMT, blake murphy
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:16:26 -0800, sf wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:52 -0800 (PST), phaeton
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>
>
>
>>> Isn't Chicago Cutlery a decent brand? I thought it was. Treat them
>>> the way they *should* be treated and they'll last you a lifetime.
>> i have one of their boning knives that i like and use quite a lot. carbon
>> steel, so i can sharpen it myself.
>>
> My meat saber is a CC. Good knife. My best, thhough?
> 1: 7" chef's. Sabatier, Elephant, black steel
> 2. 7" slicer, ditto.
> 3. 7" FLex. boner/fillet, brand unknown. Bought the blade
> (440 stainless, Cryo-tempered minus 305 degrees) at
> a custom knife shop. Cost 17-18 USD. Bone handle.
> Never even *hears* the word "dishwasher". <G>
>
> Alex
>
>
Lee Valley Tools sometimes (usually? I haven't checked in a while) has
Sabatier knives in their catalogue; they look beautiful and I know they
have a good reputation, but the knives I have don't need replacing.
When/if they do, I'll probably look at Sabatier; Chicago Cutlery isn't
as easy to find around here as it was when we first bought ours.

In article >,
flitterbit > wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
> > On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:16:26 -0800, sf wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:52 -0800 (PST), phaeton
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> They're apparently "just Revere",
> >> If they're my mother's Revere - they're thin. I don't like them.
> >> Newer Revere has thicker bottoms, but I still don't see why there
> >> would be a problem throwing them in the dishwasher.
> >>
> >>> and my knives are "just" Chicago Cutlery. I dunno... -I- like them. :-)
> >> Isn't Chicago Cutlery a decent brand? I thought it was. Treat them
> >> the way they *should* be treated and they'll last you a lifetime.
> >
> > i have one of their boning knives that i like and use quite a lot. carbon
> > steel, so i can sharpen it myself.
> >
> > your pal,
> > blake
> >
> >
> That's why we bought Chicago Cutlery knives 25+ years ago; they're still
> going strong, and we can sharpen them ourselves whenever necessary.

Geez. I have "heirloom" knives that are over 40 years old and still
going strong. They have always been hand washed and will always be hand
washed!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> flitterbit > wrote:
>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:16:26 -0800, sf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:43:52 -0800 (PST), phaeton
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They're apparently "just Revere",
>>>> If they're my mother's Revere - they're thin. I don't like them.
>>>> Newer Revere has thicker bottoms, but I still don't see why there
>>>> would be a problem throwing them in the dishwasher.
>>>>
>>>>> and my knives are "just" Chicago Cutlery. I dunno... -I- like them. :-)
>>>> Isn't Chicago Cutlery a decent brand? I thought it was. Treat them
>>>> the way they *should* be treated and they'll last you a lifetime.
>>> i have one of their boning knives that i like and use quite a lot. carbon
>>> steel, so i can sharpen it myself.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>> >
>> >
>> That's why we bought Chicago Cutlery knives 25+ years ago; they're still
>> going strong, and we can sharpen them ourselves whenever necessary.
>
> Geez. I have "heirloom" knives that are over 40 years old and still
> going strong. They have always been hand washed and will always be hand
> washed!
>
>
Well, I'm not quite old enough -- yet -- to have bought knives 40+ years
ago, but that day will come ;D I hand-wash knives, too; it's not that
big a deal, and it prolongs the life of the knife.

Well thanks everyone.

I will handwash my knives and pans from now on. I didn't realize it
was such a big deal, and I don't necessarily mind it so much. I
presume that my Sango Nova Black Stoneware plates/bowls/mugs and glass
tumblers are fine in the dishwasher though?


Cookbooks: I actually did a bit of research into cookbooks and
searched around for the two I have (I'm geeky by nature, so I can't
really help this). I'm aware that the ultimate copy of "Joy of
Cooking" is the 1975 release, but the 1964 edition I have is the
closest I have found. It's actually in pretty good shape, and I
couldn't believe it was $4.95. The Better Homes And Gardens Cookbook
actually gets more use, and it looks like it had never even been
opened when I bought it ($15 used). I had a BHG cookbook with the 3-
ring type binder about 15 years ago. It was probably from the early
1970s. My mom gave it to me when I moved out, and a roommate's mother
took it when she helped her son move back home.

I can't tell if I enjoy the cooking or the eating more. Up until I
was about 30 I used to think the whole hunger/eating thing was an
annoyance. Now I plan meals ahead, sometimes weeks in advance. It's
funny. Rolling through the cookbooks like I'm doing is a very
rewarding experience. I learn something every time, and that's a fun
journey.

Of course, I'm probably preaching those things to the choir in this
ng ;-)

Thanks everyone!

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:20:15 -0500, (Lass
Chance_2) fired up random neurons and synapses to opine:

>Yes, it IS all craft6smen and their Tools.
>My dad was a carpenter and cabinet builder. He used to spray paint his
>tools HOT PINK....because "nobody steals pink tools."

Which reminds me...the DH and his law partner have a standing bet vis
a vis the USC/UCLA annual football slaughter (wherein USC slaughters
UCLA). The DH is a UCLA grad and his partner is a USC grad. He is a
bankruptcy lawyer and his partner is a US Bankruptcy Trustee. Part of
her job is to administer debtor estates and in this particular
instance, the debtor estate included a construction site. As a joke,
some of the crew got together and presented her with a pink hard hat,
which she accepted with a smile, but through clenched teeth (pro'lly
had something to do with being called "little lady" repeatedly). The
bet that year was that the DH had to wear the pink hard hat to a
professional black tie Christmas dinner if UCLA lost. UCLA lost.
Spectacularly. Well, the DH is not one to do things by half measures,
so he showed up at the black tie dinner in the pink hard hat plus pink
cummerbund and pink bow tie.

In for a penny, in for a pound :-)

OB: Having a few folks over for New Year's football festivities and
going with All 'Murican junk food: chili with tortilla chips,
guacamole with ditto, buffalo wings, vegetable dip with crudites, mini
pizzas and popcorn.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:29:06 -0500, Goomba >
fired up random neurons and synapses to opine:

>While I would never put my good knives in the DW, my pots and pans
>routinely go there. The DW leaves them shining and clean, not abused in
>any way. My few Revere copper bottomed pots/pans actually look better
>for it as I long ago gave up worrying about a little discoloration to
>the copper bottoms.

Goomba, the only time I ever put my Calphalon through the DW, I wound
up with a really disgustingly discolored frying pan. It was so nasty,
I hauled it back to the store, which promptly replaced it (Calphalon,
I've since learned, is really good about this with no questions asked
- including the guy who used it over a campfire, but that's another
story).

I don't put *anything* through the DW that doesn't look like it could
go a few rounds with a Brillo pad.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

--

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "meatloaf" with "cox"

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:

> Goomba, the only time I ever put my Calphalon through the DW, I wound
> up with a really disgustingly discolored frying pan. It was so nasty,
> I hauled it back to the store, which promptly replaced it (Calphalon,
> I've since learned, is really good about this with no questions asked
> - including the guy who used it over a campfire, but that's another
> story).
>
> I don't put *anything* through the DW that doesn't look like it could
> go a few rounds with a Brillo pad.

Ah, alas I am not burdened with cookware that can't take it, LOL. Most
of my pots and pans were purchased in Europe years ago (WMF,stainless?
with the heavy solid disk type bottoms for contact with the burners) and
still shines like new. My even older Revereware does the same. I don't
own any Calphalon. I don't own any Brillo pads either but a little comet
never hurt them either.

"phaeton" > wrote in message
...
> Well thanks everyone.
>
> I will handwash my knives and pans from now on. I didn't realize it
> was such a big deal, and I don't necessarily mind it so much. I
> presume that my Sango Nova Black Stoneware plates/bowls/mugs and glass
> tumblers are fine in the dishwasher though?
>
>

Short of dropping them, any heavy stoneware is pretty much
indestructible-they'll last forever.

On Dec 27, 11:13*pm, phaeton > wrote:


> 1) "Never put knives in the dishwasher" is something I've read

In my case, my knives are in such constant use that I can't AFFORD the
time they'd have to wait for the next dw running ( about once a week).
My bread slicer gets used prob. 5 times a day.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:22:21 -0600, Chemiker wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:21:58 -0800 (PST), merryb >
> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 27, 9:58*pm, Alan Ladd > wrote:
>>> (Steve Pope) wrote in news:gj6vdl$620$1
>>> @blue.rahul.net:
>>>
>>You are right on with your answer!
>
> Havng said all that, small operations often do wash their knives in
> the clipper or DW, to sanitize as well as clean. Commercial grade
> knives (dexter-russel and mundial) are designed to go into that
> clipper. Their handles are DW-safe and, if they lose a bit of edge,
> well, that's what sharpening steels are for.
>
> OTOH: When did you last see a sushi chef put any of his blades
> into a DW? Not bloody likely, I'd say.
>
> My rule: Generally my good knives (Wusthof, Forschner, Henkel)
> go into the DW NEVER. With one exception: I have a polymer-
> handled tomato knife (sawtooth edge) by Henkel that gets washed
> on a reg basis in the DW. Doesn't seem to bother it. Wife puts her
> Kitchenaid small santoku in (I can't stop her!) and I find myself
> sharpening said blade 3 times as much as I do my own Henkel.
> We also put Henkel (I think they're Henkel...) paring sets in
> the DW, partially because the "sheeps-foot" parer is so easy
> to sharpen. The birds-beak parer, OTOH, is a b***h to
> sharpen.
>

i guess i don't understand why you'd put good knives in the dishwasher in
the first place. hand-washing takes, what, thirty seconds?

your pal,
blake

flitterbit wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>
>> i have one of their boning knives that i like and use quite a lot.
>> carbon
>> steel, so i can sharpen it myself.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
> >
> >
> That's why we bought Chicago Cutlery knives 25+ years ago; they're still
> going strong, and we can sharpen them ourselves whenever necessary.

My knives are Chicago Cutlery and Henckels. Over the years, one of my
Henckels has been sharpened until there is not much left.

Becca

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:59:49 -0800 (PST), phaeton wrote:

> Well thanks everyone.
>
> I will handwash my knives and pans from now on. I didn't realize it
> was such a big deal, and I don't necessarily mind it so much. I
> presume that my Sango Nova Black Stoneware plates/bowls/mugs and glass
> tumblers are fine in the dishwasher though?
>
> Cookbooks: I actually did a bit of research into cookbooks and
> searched around for the two I have (I'm geeky by nature, so I can't
> really help this). I'm aware that the ultimate copy of "Joy of
> Cooking" is the 1975 release, but the 1964 edition I have is the
> closest I have found. It's actually in pretty good shape, and I
> couldn't believe it was $4.95. The Better Homes And Gardens Cookbook
> actually gets more use, and it looks like it had never even been
> opened when I bought it ($15 used). I had a BHG cookbook with the 3-
> ring type binder about 15 years ago. It was probably from the early
> 1970s. My mom gave it to me when I moved out, and a roommate's mother
> took it when she helped her son move back home.
>
> I can't tell if I enjoy the cooking or the eating more. Up until I
> was about 30 I used to think the whole hunger/eating thing was an
> annoyance. Now I plan meals ahead, sometimes weeks in advance. It's
> funny. Rolling through the cookbooks like I'm doing is a very
> rewarding experience. I learn something every time, and that's a fun
> journey.
>
> Of course, I'm probably preaching those things to the choir in this
> ng ;-)
>
> Thanks everyone!

i wouldn't be worried about preaching to the choir here. everyone needs
their faith renewed from time to time.

i'm glad you're having a good time with it.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:59:49 -0800 (PST), phaeton wrote:

> Well thanks everyone.
>
> I will handwash my knives and pans from now on. I didn't realize it
> was such a big deal, and I don't necessarily mind it so much. I
> presume that my Sango Nova Black Stoneware plates/bowls/mugs and glass
> tumblers are fine in the dishwasher though?
>

any kinds of plates or mugs (execpt for gold-rimmed) should be fine. your
glassware, depending on the hardness of the water and harshness of the
detergent may etch after a long time, but glasses are pretty cheap. don't
put crystal or thin stemware in there.

your pal,
blake