Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> Having lost both my parents
>
>> I should add that I am talking about aged parents.
>
> My mother died when I was 22. She wasn't that old, but I had moved out
> long ago, at 18 to go to college, and a few months before she died for
> good. I was married. I think it was much harder for my brother. He
> was still in high school and still living at home when she died. He was
> no where close to marriage and a family of his own.
>
>
>> I just can't imagine what it would be
>> like to lose a child.
>
> It ain't a pretty picture.
>
> sf mentioned something that I think is important. It depends on the
> circumstances. I think both of you (Lou and Dave) have children. It's
> a lot different when your parents die and you have children. You can
> see that things are continuing. It's that old cycle of life, you are
> born and you die. But your children live on. For those whose parents
> die when they have no children and aren't likely to have children, I
> think it is a lot harder.

There is no doubt that people react differently, and there is no single
better way to deal with a loss. I mentioned life experience. If you lose
parents when you are young you have not yet gained acquired, and the
loss hits you harder. By the time my parents died I had already been
through the loss of several close friends, grandparents, aunts and
uncles. I not only spent a lot of time in the hospital with my parents
before their deaths, I was there alone with each of them when they died.
To be perfectly honest, knowing that they were seriously ill and
slipping away, the end of their suffering was something of a relief for me.

I have some good friends who lost their both there parents within a few
months when they were young. She was only only 8 sand her brother was 5.
If I gather correctly, the father was so distraught over his wife's
death that he committed suicide. When my best friend dies at16, his
mother died 6 months later "of a broken heart" .... suicide.

I was surprised at how calm and collected I was at my father's memorial
service. My brothers seemed surprisingly relaxed too. However, 6 months
later we took his ashes over to Denmark to be buried alongside the
graves if his war time air crew who were all killed when their place was
shot down and Dad was the only survivor. The interment service there was
very emotional for all of us. We cried like babies.

I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
> expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
> reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
> put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
> money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
> answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.
>
>
I always look at those mounded packets of flowers and wonder why the
people didn't bother to unwrap the plastic film before laying 'em on to
the pile......? What a waste of flowers that can't be seen from all the
packaging.

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:36:27 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>And I think the word "destroyed" is very subjective. My mother died in
>1998. The first several years were certainly very difficult for me. Even
>now I have my moments. Many of us carry "false" guilt about things over
>which we had no control, but it makes it no less hurtful regarding their
>loss.

I have absolutely no guilt when I think of Mom. I just feel the loss
of someone who loved me with no reservations (this was a woman who
valued her own privacy and gave her children "their space").


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Sat 03 Jan 2009 11:47:27p, sf told us...

> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:36:27 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>And I think the word "destroyed" is very subjective. My mother died in
>>1998. The first several years were certainly very difficult for me.
Even
>>now I have my moments. Many of us carry "false" guilt about things over
>>which we had no control, but it makes it no less hurtful regarding their
>>loss.
>
> I have absolutely no guilt when I think of Mom. I just feel the loss
> of someone who loved me with no reservations (this was a woman who
> valued her own privacy and gave her children "their space").
>
>

Well, some do and some don't. I'd venture to say that probably more do
than don't.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Saturday, 01(I)/03(III)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
2wks 1dys 10mins
************************************************** **********************
After all, we only go around once. There's really no time to be afraid.
************************************************** **********************

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:11:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
>expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
>reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
>put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
>money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
>answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.
>

Yeah, and making a special trip is really creepy.

The only one I could remotely connect with was Princess Diana. She
grew up in front of us. We watched her grow into a woman with a
mission as we watched her marriage fail. She represented the common
person, so to speak - so I can see why she had such a huge memorial.
OTOH, I have no idea why Elvis or whatever Hollywood celebrity du jour
is memorialized.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:24:56 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Nut losing friends suddenly has always been hard
>on me. I lost my best friend in a motorcycle accident when I was 15 and
>I wasn't able to talk about it for years. I finally made it down to
>visit his grave 40 years later. My wife's friend died suddenly at the
>age of 58. They had been friends since they were 3.

I lived next door to one set of grandparents when I was little. I
remember one day asking why my grandfather was sad and Mom told me he
hated to open the mail because he didn't want to hear someone else had
died.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:59:48 -0600, Lou Decruss
> > wrote:
>
> >Well said. I typed up a response to OM and it sounded snarky so I
> >didn't send it. I have a very good relationship with all my family.
>
> I think you have to put it into perspective. Both of my husband's
> parents died within 3 years, by the time he was 22. He was pretty
> hard hit by his mom's death - when he was 19. He was amazed his
> brothers and sisters didn't take it like he did but then he realized
> they had their own families to ease them through the grief and he
> didn't. When you lose a parent, it's good to have a spouse and
> children to provide an outward focus. I know having my own family
> helped me with my mom's death.
>
> >I've been through a few pretty big losses and 3 years of being
> >"destroyed" isn't normal.
>
> Shoot. I had a *dog* whose name I couldn't mention for 5 years after
> her death without getting all misty eyed. If I got that way over an
> animal, you can just imagine how I am about people.

Thanks for understanding Barb. :-)
That means a lot to me.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Lou Decruss wrote:
>
> > You're supposed to move on and get your own life when you can support
> > yourself. Most people gather friends and wisdom over time and aren't
> > so dependent on their parents that they are "destroyed" for 3 years.
> > My parents are both alive but older. When they die they can be PROUD
> > that I'm not financially or emotionally dependent on either of them.
>
> Having lost both my parents and a few friends, I have to say that losing
> friends was worse. My father was 77 when he died and he had had cancer
> for 5 years, so I had time to accept it. My mother was 83 when she died
> and had so many health problems that it was a wonder that she had lived
> as long as she had. Don't get me wrong. I miss them, nut they had lived
> good full lives and I think that I did well enough in life that they
> should be proud of me. Nut losing friends suddenly has always been hard
> on me. I lost my best friend in a motorcycle accident when I was 15 and
> I wasn't able to talk about it for years. I finally made it down to
> visit his grave 40 years later. My wife's friend died suddenly at the
> age of 58. They had been friends since they were 3.
>
> I should add that I am talking about aged parents. When our parents die
> when we are in our 40s and 50s we should have gathered enough life
> experience to realize that it is part of the cycle of life and that
> sometimes death is inevitable. I just can't imagine what it would be
> like to lose a child.

My parents lost 2 children. I saw what it did to them...

I still have dad, but I think one of the reasons mom's death was so hard
for me is that she was only 68.

If she'd lived into her 80's, it would have been easier to accept.

Everybody deals with death differently. It's not fair to judge. It's
really not!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
Becca > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> > Shoot. I had a *dog* whose name I couldn't mention for 5 years after
> > her death without getting all misty eyed. If I got that way over an
> > animal, you can just imagine how I am about people.
>
>
> Same here. Annie, my cat, was 17 when she died and I had her cremated.
> They called me 2 days later to tell me her ashes were ready. That hit
> me hard. It took 3 weeks before my step-father was ready. It happened so
> fast.
>
> Animals are dependent upon us, and we look at them as if they are
> children. It took me a few years before I could look at her photographs.
> I would dress Annie in costume for holidays; Valentine's Day, Cinco de
> Mayo, 4th of July, etc. The only thing she did not like, was her
> baseball cap from the Atlanta Braves. She was a helluva cat.
>
> Becca

I swear some cats are nearly people. :-)
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article 0>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> On Sat 03 Jan 2009 03:58:00p, sf told us...
>
> > On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:59:48 -0600, Lou Decruss
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>Well said. I typed up a response to OM and it sounded snarky so I
> >>didn't send it. I have a very good relationship with all my family.
> >
> > I think you have to put it into perspective. Both of my husband's
> > parents died within 3 years, by the time he was 22. He was pretty
> > hard hit by his mom's death - when he was 19. He was amazed his
> > brothers and sisters didn't take it like he did but then he realized
> > they had their own families to ease them through the grief and he
> > didn't. When you lose a parent, it's good to have a spouse and
> > children to provide an outward focus. I know having my own family
> > helped me with my mom's death.
> >
> >>I've been through a few pretty big losses and 3 years of being
> >>"destroyed" isn't normal.
> >
> > Shoot. I had a *dog* whose name I couldn't mention for 5 years after
> > her death without getting all misty eyed. If I got that way over an
> > animal, you can just imagine how I am about people.
> >
> >
>
> And I think the word "destroyed" is very subjective. My mother died in
> 1998. The first several years were certainly very difficult for me. Even
> now I have my moments. Many of us carry "false" guilt about things over
> which we had no control, but it makes it no less hurtful regarding their
> loss.

I still cry all thru the movie "Ghost". I watch it alone...
Dealing with the death of loved ones is very much a personal thing.

For ANYONE to judge another by their reactions to that is very narrow
minded IMHO.

YMMV of course. <sigh>

Let's just say I'm not going to lose my compassion for Jill. I have too
much empathy for that.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article
>,
Dan Abel > wrote:

> In article > ,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > Lou Decruss wrote:
> >
> > > You're supposed to move on and get your own life when you can support
> > > yourself. Most people gather friends and wisdom over time and aren't
> > > so dependent on their parents that they are "destroyed" for 3 years.
> > > My parents are both alive but older. When they die they can be PROUD
> > > that I'm not financially or emotionally dependent on either of them.
> >
> > Having lost both my parents
>
> > I should add that I am talking about aged parents.
>
> My mother died when I was 22. She wasn't that old, but I had moved out
> long ago, at 18 to go to college, and a few months before she died for
> good. I was married. I think it was much harder for my brother. He
> was still in high school and still living at home when she died. He was
> no where close to marriage and a family of his own.
>
>
> > I just can't imagine what it would be
> > like to lose a child.
>
> It ain't a pretty picture.
>
> sf mentioned something that I think is important. It depends on the
> circumstances. I think both of you (Lou and Dave) have children. It's
> a lot different when your parents die and you have children. You can
> see that things are continuing. It's that old cycle of life, you are
> born and you die. But your children live on. For those whose parents
> die when they have no children and aren't likely to have children, I
> think it is a lot harder.

I have no children, no husband. I live vicariously thru my sister.
I have two beloved nephews and that helps. :-) I'm so very glad that
they moved back here into town from Arizona...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> I have some good friends who lost their both there parents within a few
> months when they were young. She was only only 8 sand her brother was 5.
> If I gather correctly, the father was so distraught over his wife's
> death that he committed suicide. When my best friend dies at16, his
> mother died 6 months later "of a broken heart" .... suicide.

I have a good friend who's father died of a sudden heart attack a few
years back.

About one year later, her mother committed suicide... with her there
visiting her. Talk about a selfish act! She blew her brains out in her
bedroom with her daughter there to hear it, and clean up the mess. :-(

I can only imagine what it did to her...

I'm glad that she is now married with kids, but she was not at the time.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
> expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
> reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
> put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
> money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
> answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.

Many people mourned John Lennon...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:36:27 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
> >And I think the word "destroyed" is very subjective. My mother died in
> >1998. The first several years were certainly very difficult for me. Even
> >now I have my moments. Many of us carry "false" guilt about things over
> >which we had no control, but it makes it no less hurtful regarding their
> >loss.
>
> I have absolutely no guilt when I think of Mom. I just feel the loss
> of someone who loved me with no reservations (this was a woman who
> valued her own privacy and gave her children "their space").

My mom was rather bohemian. That led to some rather "interesting"
discussions. :-)

I miss that kind of open conversation more than just about anything else!

She was my best friend in the whole world. I have very few regrets.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

sf wrote:

> I lived next door to one set of grandparents when I was little. I
> remember one day asking why my grandfather was sad and Mom told me he
> hated to open the mail because he didn't want to hear someone else had
> died.

My father in law died just short of his 95th birthday. He was a real
character, a very outgoing man who had friends all over the world. He
had travelled a lot on business and kept up correspondence with people
around the globe. By the time he was in his 90s most of his friends
were dead, even those who were 10-20 years younger. He spent a lot of
time attending funerals. In fact, he postponed MiL's funeral because he
already had two others to go to, so it ended up being held on my birthday.

On Sat 03 Jan 2009 05:23:34p, Dan Abel told us...

> In article > ,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> Lou Decruss wrote:
>>
>> > You're supposed to move on and get your own life when you can support
>> > yourself. Most people gather friends and wisdom over time and aren't
>> > so dependent on their parents that they are "destroyed" for 3 years.
>> > My parents are both alive but older. When they die they can be PROUD
>> > that I'm not financially or emotionally dependent on either of them.
>>
>> Having lost both my parents
>
>> I should add that I am talking about aged parents.
>
> My mother died when I was 22. She wasn't that old, but I had moved out
> long ago, at 18 to go to college, and a few months before she died for
> good. I was married. I think it was much harder for my brother. He
> was still in high school and still living at home when she died. He was
> no where close to marriage and a family of his own.
>
>
>> I just can't imagine what it would be
>> like to lose a child.
>
> It ain't a pretty picture.
>
> sf mentioned something that I think is important. It depends on the
> circumstances. I think both of you (Lou and Dave) have children. It's
> a lot different when your parents die and you have children. You can
> see that things are continuing. It's that old cycle of life, you are
> born and you die. But your children live on. For those whose parents
> die when they have no children and aren't likely to have children, I
> think it is a lot harder.
>

I don't think anyone can measure the impact that someone else's loss has on
that person. Both of my parents lived into their 80s, but neither death
was expected. I'm an only child, and I was very close to both of them. I
have no other relatives that I'm close to, either physically or
emotionally. I also have no children. My partner, David, was very
sympathetic and empathetic, as he had already lost both parents. However,
he had 5 siblings, had been married, and had 3 children of his own.
Dynamics are different in every family and every relationship.

I have a very dear friend whose mother is 90 and not in good health, and
whose husband is battling terminal cancer. My friend is an only child,
although she herself does have a child and three grandchildren. We have
discussed impending loss and I believe she will react much as I did when my
parents died. We are emotionally very similar.

Loss of loved ones is something that no one else should sit in judgement
of, least of all people they only know through an electronic medium.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Sunday, 01(I)/04(IV)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
2wks 17hrs 9mins
************************************************** **********************
When life gives you a lemon, say 'Lemons? I like lemons. What else
have you got?'
************************************************** **********************

sf wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:11:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
>>expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
>>reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
>>put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
>>money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
>>answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.
>>
>
>
> Yeah, and making a special trip is really creepy.
>
> The only one I could remotely connect with was Princess Diana. She
> grew up in front of us. We watched her grow into a woman with a
> mission as we watched her marriage fail. She represented the common
> person, so to speak - so I can see why she had such a huge memorial.
> OTOH, I have no idea why Elvis or whatever Hollywood celebrity du jour
> is memorialized.
>
>

What I remember most about Diana was her courage. She wouldn't tolerate
staying in a dead, loveless marriage, not even to be the Queen of
England (literally).

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> > I lived next door to one set of grandparents when I was little. I
> > remember one day asking why my grandfather was sad and Mom told me he
> > hated to open the mail because he didn't want to hear someone else had
> > died.
>
> My father in law died just short of his 95th birthday. He was a real
> character, a very outgoing man who had friends all over the world. He
> had travelled a lot on business and kept up correspondence with people
> around the globe. By the time he was in his 90s most of his friends
> were dead, even those who were 10-20 years younger. He spent a lot of
> time attending funerals. In fact, he postponed MiL's funeral because he
> already had two others to go to, so it ended up being held on my birthday.

You may enjoy the movie "Second Hand Lions". :-)
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article 0>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Loss of loved ones is something that no one else should sit in judgement
> of, least of all people they only know through an electronic medium.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright

Well said.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:25:24 -0500, Goomba >
wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:
> I have a very good relationship with all my family.
>> I've been through a few pretty big losses and 3 years of being
>> "destroyed" isn't normal.
>>
>> Lou
>
>No, it isn't normal. And normal, mentally healthy adult children all
>recognize that their parents aren't immortal and they'll someday have to
>deal with the issues surrounding their passing.

Exactly! I divorced almost 30 years ago and had gone to marriage
counseling prior. My insurance was paying for most of it so I kept
going for about 2 years. I'm also a book whore so I read close to 100
books on mental health, relationships, family, addictions, birth
order, and whatever else I could get my hands on. I haven't read
anything like that since but one thing I walked away with after of a
year of hitting the books was the importance of leaving the nest in a
healthy manner. Although parents may have a role in our transition to
adulthood it's OUR responsibility to find our own emotional way in the
world. Things may be different in other cultures and even here they
were different 100 years ago but it's just not how it is now.

I can spot someone who hasn't made a healthy break from their parents
when they refer to them as "mom" or "dad." It's annoying as hell.
It's MY mom or MY dad unless I am talking to one of my siblings.
Others have mentioned childless people may handle their parents
passing differently and that my be true. I'm friends with one of my
high school teachers. He and his wife were never able to have
children. His wife refers to HER mother as mom. I have no scientific
backup for my comments as it's just an observation I've witnessed many
times.

>Of course an unexpected death is a little different blow.

This is very true. My comments may make me appear to be a cold
hard-ass but I've suffered pain just like anyone else. I've carried
the casket of a 16 yr. old that died in a plane crash. A family I am
very close to had a 6 year old die by a hit and run driver with his 10
year old brother watching. One of my best buddies died of brain
cancer a few years ago at 43. A BIL committed suicide at 40 just 2
years ago. Although all these events were painful and most likely
changed all of us who knew the people, everyone has moved on and it
didn't take anywhere near 3 years.

Lou

On Sun 04 Jan 2009 07:43:40a, Omelet told us...

> In article 0>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> Loss of loved ones is something that no one else should sit in judgement
>> of, least of all people they only know through an electronic medium.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright
>
> Well said.

Thanks, Om. I think we're on the same wavelength here.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Sunday, 01(I)/04(IV)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
2wks 15hrs 58mins
************************************************** **********************
Floggings will continue until morale improves.
************************************************** **********************

In article >,
Lou Decruss > wrote:

> This is very true. My comments may make me appear to be a cold
> hard-ass but I've suffered pain just like anyone else. I've carried
> the casket of a 16 yr. old that died in a plane crash. A family I am
> very close to had a 6 year old die by a hit and run driver with his 10
> year old brother watching. One of my best buddies died of brain
> cancer a few years ago at 43. A BIL committed suicide at 40 just 2
> years ago. Although all these events were painful and most likely
> changed all of us who knew the people, everyone has moved on and it
> didn't take anywhere near 3 years.
>
> Lou

You have no right whatsoever to judge how people deal with the death of
loved ones...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article 0>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> On Sun 04 Jan 2009 07:43:40a, Omelet told us...
>
> > In article 0>,
> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >
> >> Loss of loved ones is something that no one else should sit in judgement
> >> of, least of all people they only know through an electronic medium.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wayne Boatwright
> >
> > Well said.
>
> Thanks, Om. I think we're on the same wavelength here.

Hugs!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:


> I've always wondered why grieving people make a monument out of a tree or
> other type of spot on a street where a loved one died in a car accident.
> I will never forget the monument to a young woman that died on a winding
> road along the River Des Peres. Her alcohol level was more than twice the
> legal limit. She was very drunk, speeding and lost control of her car.
> She hit a tree and died. People kept putting flowers around that tree
> for months. I understand grief. I feel grief. I don't understand dragging
> it out for months on end.

It's not months, Michael, it's years. I've been camping at the same
place every summer for four years now. When I go out walking on the
road, I see the little collections of crosses and plastic flowers.
Sometimes the plow pushes them over the side. I can see the ones down
the hill, and the new ones by the side of the road.

I see them in other places around where I live, out in the country.
White crosses and plastic flowers. Sometimes I stop. The names are
often Spanish, and sometimes there is a date. Sometimes the white paint
is fresh.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:29:04 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Lou Decruss > wrote:
>
>> This is very true. My comments may make me appear to be a cold
>> hard-ass but I've suffered pain just like anyone else. I've carried
>> the casket of a 16 yr. old that died in a plane crash. A family I am
>> very close to had a 6 year old die by a hit and run driver with his 10
>> year old brother watching. One of my best buddies died of brain
>> cancer a few years ago at 43. A BIL committed suicide at 40 just 2
>> years ago. Although all these events were painful and most likely
>> changed all of us who knew the people, everyone has moved on and it
>> didn't take anywhere near 3 years.
>>
>> Lou
>
>You have no right whatsoever to judge how people deal with the death of
>loved ones...

Judgement is nothing more than thought. I have that right. I'm sorry
this bothers you so much.

Lou

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:44:53 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
>>>Lou, some of us do care. Please don't tease, tell us what you wore. Was it
>>>the shirt with the sequins?
>>
>> Underwear, a long wool coat, and a Stetson hat.
>>
>> Lou
>
>Damn, hope you have photos!
>

The cops took some but I didn't get a copy.

Lou

In article >,
Omelet > wrote:


> I have no children, no husband. I live vicariously thru my sister.
> I have two beloved nephews and that helps. :-) I'm so very glad that
> they moved back here into town from Arizona...

You've already mentioned it, but I suspect it will be very hard when you
lose your father. I don't know how his health is, but barring accidents
and such, generally parents pass on before their children.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
Lou Decruss > wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:29:04 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Lou Decruss > wrote:
> >
> >> This is very true. My comments may make me appear to be a cold
> >> hard-ass but I've suffered pain just like anyone else. I've carried
> >> the casket of a 16 yr. old that died in a plane crash. A family I am
> >> very close to had a 6 year old die by a hit and run driver with his 10
> >> year old brother watching. One of my best buddies died of brain
> >> cancer a few years ago at 43. A BIL committed suicide at 40 just 2
> >> years ago. Although all these events were painful and most likely
> >> changed all of us who knew the people, everyone has moved on and it
> >> didn't take anywhere near 3 years.
> >>
> >> Lou
> >
> >You have no right whatsoever to judge how people deal with the death of
> >loved ones...
>
> Judgement is nothing more than thought. I have that right. I'm sorry
> this bothers you so much.
>
> Lou

I'm sorry that my sorrow bothers YOU so much that you had to take it
personally...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article
>,
Dan Abel > wrote:

> In article >,
> Omelet > wrote:
>
>
> > I have no children, no husband. I live vicariously thru my sister.
> > I have two beloved nephews and that helps. :-) I'm so very glad that
> > they moved back here into town from Arizona...
>
> You've already mentioned it, but I suspect it will be very hard when you
> lose your father. I don't know how his health is, but barring accidents
> and such, generally parents pass on before their children.

I know that. I'm more ready for him (even tho' his health appears good
at the moment) than I was for mom. If she'd lived into her 80's, it
would have been easier to deal with.

Life often seems unfair.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:58:59 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>I have a good friend who's father died of a sudden heart attack a few
>years back.
>
>About one year later, her mother committed suicide... with her there
>visiting her. Talk about a selfish act! She blew her brains out in her
>bedroom with her daughter there to hear it, and clean up the mess. :-(

Wow, that's horrible! People who are that depressed seldom think
about the consequences of their actions.
>
>I can only imagine what it did to her...
>
>I'm glad that she is now married with kids, but she was not at the time.



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:57:36 -0800, sf wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:11:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
>>expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
>>reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
>>put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
>>money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
>>answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.
>>
>
> Yeah, and making a special trip is really creepy.
>
> The only one I could remotely connect with was Princess Diana. She
> grew up in front of us. We watched her grow into a woman with a
> mission as we watched her marriage fail. She represented the common
> person, so to speak - so I can see why she had such a huge memorial.
> OTOH, I have no idea why Elvis or whatever Hollywood celebrity du jour
> is memorialized.

i would argue the opposite. elvis had enormous influence on many artists
musically, and it a lot of ways changed the culture, while you could
substitute a porcelain doll for diana and few would know the difference.
what did she actually *do*, besides marrying really well?

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:57:36 -0800, sf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:11:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
>>> expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
>>> reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
>>> put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
>>> money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
>>> answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.
>>>
>> Yeah, and making a special trip is really creepy.
>>
>> The only one I could remotely connect with was Princess Diana. She
>> grew up in front of us. We watched her grow into a woman with a
>> mission as we watched her marriage fail. She represented the common
>> person, so to speak - so I can see why she had such a huge memorial.
>> OTOH, I have no idea why Elvis or whatever Hollywood celebrity du jour
>> is memorialized.
>
> i would argue the opposite. elvis had enormous influence on many artists
> musically, and it a lot of ways changed the culture, while you could
> substitute a porcelain doll for diana and few would know the difference.
> what did she actually *do*, besides marrying really well?
>
> your pal,
> blake

She was hugely into charitable works...

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:14:04 -0600, Kathleen wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:11:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
>>>expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
>>>reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
>>>put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
>>>money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
>>>answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, and making a special trip is really creepy.
>>
>> The only one I could remotely connect with was Princess Diana. She
>> grew up in front of us. We watched her grow into a woman with a
>> mission as we watched her marriage fail. She represented the common
>> person, so to speak - so I can see why she had such a huge memorial.
>> OTOH, I have no idea why Elvis or whatever Hollywood celebrity du jour
>> is memorialized.
>>
>
> What I remember most about Diana was her courage. She wouldn't tolerate
> staying in a dead, loveless marriage, not even to be the Queen of
> England (literally).

i don't think she missed too many meals by being 'courageous' in that way.
it's not like she was out on the street.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:03:29 -0600, Lou Decruss wrote:

> On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:04:10 GMT, blake murphy
> > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:43:38 -0600, Lou Decruss wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:45:59 -0800 (PST), Sheldon >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Lou Decruss wrote:
>>>>> "jmcquown" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >I was going to get a small standing rib roast. ?All of the talk about them
>>>>> >set off a craving! ?But I got tied up with other stuff and forgot to buy one
>>>>> >when I was in town last week. ?So I'll just thaw the leftover half of the
>>>>> >cornish game hen from 12/25. ?I do have some nice cheese and crackers to
>>>>> >snack on, too. ?Not a very exciting meal, but it will do
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like you've got a big group of friends to hang with. ?
>>>>
>>>>Quality is better than quantity... I'm positive Jill's cat Persia is
>>>>far better company than the likes of you, and infinitely better
>>>>looking... and I've no doubt cleaner and smells sweeter.
>>>
>>> OK. So you're all up on feline companionship. Know much about
>>> humans?
>>>
>>> Lou
>>
>>cats tell lousy jokes. they all seem to be mouse-related.
>
> (shrug) I dunno. The best pussy jokes I've ever heard were told by a
> cat.
>
> Lou

<snort>

o.k., here's one for you:

a man's in bed with a woman, and he says to her 'you got a nice tight
pussy, but you ain't got no tits.'

she says 'get off my back.'

your pal,
blake

In article >,
Lou Decruss > wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:25:24 -0500, Goomba >
> wrote:
>
> >Lou Decruss wrote:

> >> I've been through a few pretty big losses and 3 years of being
> >> "destroyed" isn't normal.

> >No, it isn't normal. And normal, mentally healthy adult children all
> >recognize that their parents aren't immortal and they'll someday have to
> >deal with the issues surrounding their passing.

"Normal" isn't a really good word here. I've posted before, and will
again now, that the average grief period is 18 months. That's an
average. That means that some people get over it sooner and some later.
What exactly that means depends on the individual and the circumstances.

> Exactly!

Very few people are ready to accept the death of somebody close to them.
My mother's kidneys were failing, which caused her liver to fail. This
went on for years. During the last year, she was in and out of the
hospital. My father was devastated when she died.

> I can spot someone who hasn't made a healthy break from their parents
> when they refer to them as "mom" or "dad." It's annoying as hell.

I've never noticed. I'd be tempted to call you on it, as a regional
peculiarity, but I have my own.

> It's MY mom or MY dad unless I am talking to one of my siblings.

I've always considered them synonymous.

My pet peeve is "baby". "Baby" is a little tiny thing, not an adult.
Besides which, adults who are called "baby" are always female. Since
our youngest child was our only daughter, I was worried. I made it
really clear that her name was not "baby".

> years ago. Although all these events were painful and most likely
> changed all of us who knew the people, everyone has moved on and it
> didn't take anywhere near 3 years.

I suffered a permanent personality change when our son died. It was 27
years ago. It's not a big deal, I just have a little different sense of
humor. I still have a sense of humor, but some things just aren't funny
any more. I'll hear a joke, and it just leaves me cold.

ObDirtyDancing: This was a movie, and Lou saw it on stage recently.
The main character, who was an attractive young lady, was named "Baby".

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:27:15 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>It's not months, Michael, it's years. I've been camping at the same
>place every summer for four years now. When I go out walking on the
>road, I see the little collections of crosses and plastic flowers.
>Sometimes the plow pushes them over the side. I can see the ones down
>the hill, and the new ones by the side of the road.
>
>I see them in other places around where I live, out in the country.
>White crosses and plastic flowers. Sometimes I stop. The names are
>often Spanish, and sometimes there is a date. Sometimes the white paint
>is fresh.

It's probably a cultural thing. IMO, at the very least they are good
warnings to other drivers that we are all mortal and please drive
safely.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> "Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:
>
>
>> I've always wondered why grieving people make a monument out of a tree or
>> other type of spot on a street where a loved one died in a car accident.
>> I will never forget the monument to a young woman that died on a winding
>> road along the River Des Peres. Her alcohol level was more than twice the
>> legal limit. She was very drunk, speeding and lost control of her car.
>> She hit a tree and died. People kept putting flowers around that tree
>> for months. I understand grief. I feel grief. I don't understand dragging
>> it out for months on end.
>
> It's not months, Michael, it's years. I've been camping at the same
> place every summer for four years now. When I go out walking on the
> road, I see the little collections of crosses and plastic flowers.
> Sometimes the plow pushes them over the side. I can see the ones down
> the hill, and the new ones by the side of the road.
>
> I see them in other places around where I live, out in the country.
> White crosses and plastic flowers. Sometimes I stop. The names are
> often Spanish, and sometimes there is a date. Sometimes the white paint
> is fresh.


That has become a controversial issue around here lately. I have to
confess that I am not terribly sympathetic to it. As in the case Michael
mentioned, many of them are drunk and driving carelessly. Almost without
exception, those killed were the drunks and speeders and not the
innocent victims of the carelessness of others. IMO they are monuments
to stupidity. Under the circumstances, the families should be a little
more discreet.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:54:58 GMT, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:57:36 -0800, sf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:11:26 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I can understand grieving when a family member or close friend is lost,
>>>expecially when it is sudden and young. What I don't understand is the
>>>reaction of some people when a celebrity dies. People come from all over and
>>>put flowers on a pile with other flowers people brought. Seems like that
>>>money (and time) could be put to better use. Maybe a shrink has some
>>>answers, but I think it is people making up for their own shortcomings.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, and making a special trip is really creepy.
>>
>> The only one I could remotely connect with was Princess Diana. She
>> grew up in front of us. We watched her grow into a woman with a
>> mission as we watched her marriage fail. She represented the common
>> person, so to speak - so I can see why she had such a huge memorial.
>> OTOH, I have no idea why Elvis or whatever Hollywood celebrity du jour
>> is memorialized.
>
>i would argue the opposite. elvis had enormous influence on many artists
>musically, and it a lot of ways changed the culture, while you could
>substitute a porcelain doll for diana and few would know the difference.

Apparently others felt differently.

>what did she actually *do*, besides marrying really well?
>
Wasn't she the one who made all sorts of trips to third world
countries trying to bring the world's attention to their problems?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:18:36 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>ObDirtyDancing: This was a movie, and Lou saw it on stage recently.
>The main character, who was an attractive young lady, was named "Baby".

Again, cultural.... I know a 40+ year old woman who is still called
Baby by family and family friends.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West