Ever since I discovered the coveted nuoc mau, AKA "caramel sauce",
or what I call burnt sugar sauce, I've been on a nuoc mau binge.
Today was Thit Kho - pork belly ribs cooked in caramel sauce with
spices.

The making of nuoc mau is simple once you get the hang of it, the
making of which is beyond the scope of this particular post. It's
simply burnt sugar cooked until it starts smoking and looks like
this:

http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12..._6378_3812.jpg

It's really nasty tasting stuff on it's own. It bears no relation
what we normally consider "caramel".

I used pork short ribs for this dish, trimmed of skin and the top
layer of fat. These are also known as pork "karubi ribs", I
believe. Traditional thit kho would still have skin on and be
boneless. This was a good compromise between fat, lean, and flavor.

http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12...6378_17484.jpg

These are browned over high heat, then I add 3-4 cups of weak
chicken or beef broth for those 5lbs of ribs (in this case,
reconstituted Minor's soup base), 3 tablespoons the nuoc mau above,
2 star anise, 2 tablespoons nouc mam (bottled fish sauce), one
onion, a few cloves of garlic, and about 2 inches of smashed ginger.
Lemongrass can be used as well. This then simmered for about 2
hours until pork is fork-tender.

http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12...6378_70305.jpg

6 hard-boiled eggs were added after that shot.

Skim off most of the fat (make sure to leave some) and then serve in
bowls with lots of broth, cilantro, chiles, bean sprouts, mint,
chopped peanuts, whatever floats your boat. I was out of most of
that so I just served it over jasmine rice with chiles and green
onions. And I spooned a bunch of sauce/broth over this after the
picture was taken.

http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12..._6378_7605.jpg

Kho is a super rich dish full of flavor. These were no exception.
The pork is done perfectly and they don't taste fatty at all. I
can't get enough of it. It gets even better after it sits in the
fridge for 2 days. I've never had it in the restaurants, but I
can't imagine it can get any better than this.

-sw

On Jan 3, 3:18*pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> Ever since I discovered the coveted nuoc mau, AKA "caramel sauce",
> or what I call burnt sugar sauce, I've been on a nuoc mau binge.
> Today was Thit Kho - pork belly ribs cooked in caramel sauce with
> spices.
>
> The making of nuoc mau is simple once you get the hang of it, the
> making of which is beyond the scope of this particular post. *It's
> simply burnt sugar cooked until it starts smoking and looks like
> this:
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12..._6378_3812.jpg
>
> It's really nasty tasting stuff on it's own. *It bears no relation
> what we normally consider "caramel".
>
> I used pork short ribs for this dish, trimmed of skin and the top
> layer of fat. *These are also known as pork "karubi ribs", I
> believe. *Traditional thit kho would still have skin on and be
> boneless. *This was a good compromise between fat, lean, and flavor.
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12...156_6378_17484...
>
> These are browned over high heat, then I add 3-4 cups of weak
> chicken or beef broth for those 5lbs of ribs (in this case,
> reconstituted Minor's soup base), 3 tablespoons the nuoc mau above,
> 2 star anise, 2 tablespoons nouc mam (bottled fish sauce), one
> onion, a few cloves of garlic, and about 2 inches of smashed ginger.
> Lemongrass can be used as well. *This then simmered for about 2
> hours until pork is fork-tender.
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12...156_6378_70305...
>
> 6 hard-boiled eggs were added after that shot.
>
> Skim off most of the fat (make sure to leave some) and then serve in
> bowls with lots of broth, cilantro, chiles, bean sprouts, mint,
> chopped peanuts, whatever floats your boat. *I was out of most of
> that so I just served it over jasmine rice with chiles and green
> onions. *And I spooned a bunch of sauce/broth over this after the
> picture was taken.
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12..._6378_7605.jpg
>
> Kho is a super rich dish full of flavor. These were no exception.
> The pork is done perfectly and they don't taste fatty at all. *I
> can't get enough of it. *It gets even better after it sits in the
> fridge for 2 days. *I've never had it in the restaurants, but I
> can't imagine it can get any better than this.
>
> -sw
================================================
Um, could you sort that out for me? nuoc mam is what i know as fish
sauce. What are nuoc mau and nouc mam? And I always use "Brown Sauce"
or "Bead Molasses" for "caramel color".
Thanks very much,
Lynn in Fargo

Lynn from Fargo wrote:
>
> On Jan 3, 3:18 pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> > Ever since I discovered the coveted nuoc mau, AKA "caramel sauce",
> > or what I call burnt sugar sauce, I've been on a nuoc mau binge.
> > Today was Thit Kho - pork belly ribs cooked in caramel sauce with
> > spices.
> >
> > The making of nuoc mau is simple once you get the hang of it, the
> > making of which is beyond the scope of this particular post. It's
> > simply burnt sugar cooked until it starts smoking and looks like
> > this:
> >
> > http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12..._6378_3812.jpg
> >


<snip>

> > -sw
> ================================================


> Um, could you sort that out for me? nuoc mam is what i know as fish
> sauce. What are nuoc mau and nouc mam? And I always use "Brown Sauce"
> or "Bead Molasses" for "caramel color".
> Thanks very much,
> Lynn in Fargo

Nuoc mam is indeed the fish sauce, nuoc mau is nearly-burnt sugar plus
water.

Here is a method for making nuoc mau:


Makes 1 cup.

1 cup sugar
1/4 cup plus 1/2 cup water

Fill the sink with enough water to come halfway up the side of a
1-quart, heavy-bottomed
saucepan. Place the sugar and 1/4 cup of the water into the saucepan and
cook over
medium-low heat. Stir until the sugar dissolves, about 2 to 3 minutes.

As the sugar melts, the mixture will go from opaque to clear. Small
bubbles will form at the
edge and gradually grow larger, moving toward the center of the pan.
Eventually, bubbles will cover the entire surface. After about 15
minutes, the sugar will begin to caramelize and turn in color. You'll
see a progression from champagne yellow to light tea to dark tea.

When smoke starts rising, remove the saucepan from the heat and slowly
swirl it around.
Watch the sugar closely as it will turn darker by the second; a reddish
cast will set in (think the color of a big and bold red wine) as the
bubbles become a lovely burnt orange. Pay attention to the color of the
caramel underneath the bubbles. When the caramel color is that of black
coffee or molasses, place the pan in the sink to stop the cooking
process. The hot pan bottom will sizzle upon contact and the bubble
action will subside.

Add the remaining 1/2 cup of water (there may be a small dramatic
reaction) and place the
saucepan back on the stove over medium heat, stirring until the caramel
has dissolved into the water. The result will be slightly viscous;
flavor-wise, it will be bittersweet. Pour the caramel sauce into a small
glass jar and let it cool; it will thicken further. Store indefinitely
in your kitchen cupboard.


Recipe from Into the Vietnamese Kitchen: Treasured Foodways, Modern
Flavors (Ten Speed
Press, 2006).

Arri London wrote:


> Nuoc mam is indeed the fish sauce, nuoc mau is nearly-burnt sugar plus
> water.
>
> Here is a method for making nuoc mau:
>
>
> Makes 1 cup.
>
> 1 cup sugar
> 1/4 cup plus 1/2 cup water
>
> Fill the sink with enough water to come halfway up the side of a
> 1-quart, heavy-bottomed
> saucepan. Place the sugar and 1/4 cup of the water into the saucepan and
> cook over
> medium-low heat. Stir until the sugar dissolves, about 2 to 3 minutes.
>
> As the sugar melts, the mixture will go from opaque to clear. Small
> bubbles will form at the
> edge and gradually grow larger, moving toward the center of the pan.
> Eventually, bubbles will cover the entire surface. After about 15
> minutes, the sugar will begin to caramelize and turn in color. You'll
> see a progression from champagne yellow to light tea to dark tea.
>
> When smoke starts rising, remove the saucepan from the heat and slowly
> swirl it around.
> Watch the sugar closely as it will turn darker by the second; a reddish
> cast will set in (think the color of a big and bold red wine) as the
> bubbles become a lovely burnt orange. Pay attention to the color of the
> caramel underneath the bubbles. When the caramel color is that of black
> coffee or molasses, place the pan in the sink to stop the cooking
> process. The hot pan bottom will sizzle upon contact and the bubble
> action will subside.
>
> Add the remaining 1/2 cup of water (there may be a small dramatic
> reaction) and place the
> saucepan back on the stove over medium heat, stirring until the caramel
> has dissolved into the water. The result will be slightly viscous;
> flavor-wise, it will be bittersweet. Pour the caramel sauce into a small
> glass jar and let it cool; it will thicken further. Store indefinitely
> in your kitchen cupboard.
>
>
> Recipe from Into the Vietnamese Kitchen: Treasured Foodways, Modern
> Flavors (Ten Speed
> Press, 2006).

The first time I made this, I used 1 cup of sugar and 1/4 water. When
it came time to add the cold water, I only added 1/4 cup instead of 1/2
cup. I glanced at the recipe and realized what I did, and I quickly
stirred in the other 1/4 cup water. It turned out fine, in spite of me.

My husband used it tonight when he cooked beef & broccoli. He did not
overcook the broccoli this time, and I appreciated that.

Becca

Lynn from Fargo > wrote:

> Um, could you sort that out for me? nuoc mam is what i know as fish
> sauce. What are nuoc mau and nouc mam? And I always use "Brown Sauce"
> or "Bead Molasses" for "caramel color".

Uh, nouc mau is obvioucly. For nuoc mau, see:
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/06/food/fo-kho6

And no, it's not just for color.

-sw

Becca > wrote:

> My husband used it tonight when he cooked beef & broccoli. He did not
> overcook the broccoli this time, and I appreciated that.

I've been experimenting using small amounts of this in stir-fries in
place of proper wok hey which I can't duplicate very well. The
stuff tastes like hell on it's own, but mixed with other ingredients
adds great flavor.

And of course, use it with nuoc cham on grilled pork chops, sliced
pork or beef as a banh mi filling, or even just some sauteed shrimp.
Simply delicious.

-sw

Becca > wrote:

> My husband used it tonight when he cooked beef & broccoli. He did not
> overcook the broccoli this time, and I appreciated that.

I've been experimenting using small amounts of this in stir-fries in
place of proper wok hey which I can't duplicate very well. The
stuff tastes like hell on it's own, but mixed with other ingredients
adds great flavor.

And of course, use it with nuoc cham on grilled pork chops, sliced
pork or beef as a banh mi filling, or even just some sauteed shrimp.
Simply delicious.

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote:

> Uh, nouc mau is obvioucly. For nuoc mau, see:
> http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/06/food/fo-kho6

WTF was that? Damn keyboard. Lets try this again:

Nouc mam was obviously a mis-spelling. Nuoc mau is caramel sauce.

There. That felt better.

-sw

That;s the last time I'll link to my pictures on eGullet. Here's
the tinypic (or in this case - largerpic) references for better
clarity:

http://i37.tinypic.com/npjn1w.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/a2ayr6.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2yxixw3.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2rh2qo9.jpg

-sw

That;s the last time I'll link to my pictures on eGullet. Here's
the tinypic (or in this case - largerpic) references for better
clarity:

http://i37.tinypic.com/npjn1w.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/a2ayr6.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2yxixw3.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2rh2qo9.jpg

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> Ever since I discovered the coveted nuoc mau, AKA "caramel sauce",
> or what I call burnt sugar sauce, I've been on a nuoc mau binge.
> Today was Thit Kho - pork belly ribs cooked in caramel sauce with
> spices.
>
> The making of nuoc mau is simple once you get the hang of it, the
> making of which is beyond the scope of this particular post. It's
> simply burnt sugar cooked until it starts smoking and looks like
> this:
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12..._6378_3812.jpg
>
> It's really nasty tasting stuff on it's own. It bears no relation
> what we normally consider "caramel".
>
> I used pork short ribs for this dish, trimmed of skin and the top
> layer of fat. These are also known as pork "karubi ribs", I
> believe. Traditional thit kho would still have skin on and be
> boneless. This was a good compromise between fat, lean, and flavor.
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12...6378_17484.jpg
>
> These are browned over high heat, then I add 3-4 cups of weak
> chicken or beef broth for those 5lbs of ribs (in this case,
> reconstituted Minor's soup base), 3 tablespoons the nuoc mau above,
> 2 star anise, 2 tablespoons nouc mam (bottled fish sauce), one
> onion, a few cloves of garlic, and about 2 inches of smashed ginger.
> Lemongrass can be used as well. This then simmered for about 2
> hours until pork is fork-tender.
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12...6378_70305.jpg
>
> 6 hard-boiled eggs were added after that shot.
>
> Skim off most of the fat (make sure to leave some) and then serve in
> bowls with lots of broth, cilantro, chiles, bean sprouts, mint,
> chopped peanuts, whatever floats your boat. I was out of most of
> that so I just served it over jasmine rice with chiles and green
> onions. And I spooned a bunch of sauce/broth over this after the
> picture was taken.
>
> http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/12..._6378_7605.jpg
>
> Kho is a super rich dish full of flavor. These were no exception.
> The pork is done perfectly and they don't taste fatty at all. I
> can't get enough of it. It gets even better after it sits in the
> fridge for 2 days. I've never had it in the restaurants, but I
> can't imagine it can get any better than this.
>
> -sw

Yum, yum! But I am trying to LC--and this category of Vietnamese
cooking wouldn't lend itself to that, alas.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." > wrote:

> Yum, yum! But I am trying to LC--and this category of Vietnamese
> cooking wouldn't lend itself to that, alas.

The kho itself can be made fairly LC by just omitting the kecap
manis. What's left is only aboiut 1.5 TB of burnt sugar per quart
of broth and 5lbs of meat. Kho is usually just eaten on it's own
with a Vietnamese table salad (bean sprouts, cilantro, mint, basil,
lettuce, peppers, herbs) at it's disposal.

I'm not sure what effect burning the sugar has on its carb content.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> Yum, yum! But I am trying to LC--and this category of Vietnamese
>> cooking wouldn't lend itself to that, alas.
>
> The kho itself can be made fairly LC by just omitting the kecap
> manis. What's left is only aboiut 1.5 TB of burnt sugar per quart
> of broth and 5lbs of meat. Kho is usually just eaten on it's own
> with a Vietnamese table salad (bean sprouts, cilantro, mint, basil,
> lettuce, peppers, herbs) at it's disposal.
>
> I'm not sure what effect burning the sugar has on its carb content.
>
> -sw

That is an interesting question, which I have no answer to. Good
point re the amount per qt. Also, I have seen and undoubtedly can
find recipes for ketjap manis, so that could be made LC.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." > wrote:

> That is an interesting question, which I have no answer to. Good
> point re the amount per qt. Also, I have seen and undoubtedly can
> find recipes for ketjap manis, so that could be made LC.

Kecap Manis is by definition, sweet soy sauce. It does come in
several degrees of sweetness (medium and regular - not sure which is
sweeter). Just use regular soy sauce instead of kecap manis.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> That is an interesting question, which I have no answer to. Good
>> point re the amount per qt. Also, I have seen and undoubtedly can
>> find recipes for ketjap manis, so that could be made LC.
>
> Kecap Manis is by definition, sweet soy sauce. It does come in
> several degrees of sweetness (medium and regular - not sure which is
> sweeter). Just use regular soy sauce instead of kecap manis.
>
> -sw
That would be very different. IIRC, the recipes called for more
than soy sauce and sweetener. Not a problem though.

--
Jean B.

"Jean B." > wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
>> "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>> That is an interesting question, which I have no answer to. Good
>>> point re the amount per qt. Also, I have seen and undoubtedly can
>>> find recipes for ketjap manis, so that could be made LC.
>>
>> Kecap Manis is by definition, sweet soy sauce. It does come in
>> several degrees of sweetness (medium and regular - not sure which is
>> sweeter). Just use regular soy sauce instead of kecap manis.
>>
> That would be very different. IIRC, the recipes called for more
> than soy sauce and sweetener. Not a problem though.

I did list all the other ingredients. None of which had any
significant carbs considering the ratios of other ingredients. It's
very low carb as is.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> "Jean B." > wrote:
>
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>> "Jean B." > wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is an interesting question, which I have no answer to. Good
>>>> point re the amount per qt. Also, I have seen and undoubtedly can
>>>> find recipes for ketjap manis, so that could be made LC.
>>> Kecap Manis is by definition, sweet soy sauce. It does come in
>>> several degrees of sweetness (medium and regular - not sure which is
>>> sweeter). Just use regular soy sauce instead of kecap manis.
>>>
>> That would be very different. IIRC, the recipes called for more
>> than soy sauce and sweetener. Not a problem though.
>
> I did list all the other ingredients. None of which had any
> significant carbs considering the ratios of other ingredients. It's
> very low carb as is.
>
> -sw

Oh, sorry, I was just speaking of the KM. You are right.

--
Jean B.

Sqwertz wrote:

> I've been experimenting using small amounts of this in stir-fries in
> place of proper wok hey which I can't duplicate very well. The
> stuff tastes like hell on it's own, but mixed with other ingredients
> adds great flavor.
>
> And of course, use it with nuoc cham on grilled pork chops, sliced
> pork or beef as a banh mi filling, or even just some sauteed shrimp.
> Simply delicious.
>
> -sw

Never used it on shrimp, I bet it tastes pretty good. I can't wait to
try it. We are using it on country style ribs, tonight.

Becca

Sqwertz wrote:
> Becca > wrote:
>
>> My husband used it tonight when he cooked beef & broccoli. He did not
>> overcook the broccoli this time, and I appreciated that.
>
> I've been experimenting using small amounts of this in stir-fries in
> place of proper wok hey which I can't duplicate very well. The
> stuff tastes like hell on it's own, but mixed with other ingredients
> adds great flavor.
>
> And of course, use it with nuoc cham on grilled pork chops, sliced
> pork or beef as a banh mi filling, or even just some sauteed shrimp.
> Simply delicious.
>
> -sw

My husband makes good stir fries, but Vietnamese cooking was new to him.
I told him about the nuoc mau before I showed him the jar, because I did
not want him to taste it first. If most people tasted a spoon full of
salt or sriracha sauce for the first time, they might not care for it,
just by itself. Used right, it tastes great.

Becca

Becca > wrote:

> Never used it on shrimp, I bet it tastes pretty good. I can't wait to
> try it. We are using it on country style ribs, tonight.

Nuoc Mau + Nuoc Cham shrimp marinated for 20 minutes is
scrumpdillicious.

-Ned Flanders

Becca > wrote:

> My husband makes good stir fries, but Vietnamese cooking was new to him.
> I told him about the nuoc mau before I showed him the jar, because I did
> not want him to taste it first. If most people tasted a spoon full of
> salt or sriracha sauce for the first time, they might not care for it,
> just by itself. Used right, it tastes great.

Nuoc Mau/Nuoc Hang taste nasty on their own - There's no arguing
that. But Nuoc Cham and Nuoc Mam are even harder for people to
accept because of their taste AND smell.

And then we have shrimp paste, which de-feets all known
sensibilities. They literally smell like da feet.

But together in the right quantities and when cooked properly are
simply heaven on the taste buds.

Unfortunately my cow-orkers don't share my love of Asian foods.
Especially when I heat them up in the microwave. I miss living in
San Jose with non-Texans.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> Becca > wrote:
>
>> Never used it on shrimp, I bet it tastes pretty good. I can't wait to
>> try it. We are using it on country style ribs, tonight.
>
> Nuoc Mau + Nuoc Cham shrimp marinated for 20 minutes is
> scrumpdillicious.
>
> -Ned Flanders

LOL I will make a note of that.

Becca

Sqwertz wrote:

> Nuoc Mau/Nuoc Hang taste nasty on their own - There's no arguing
> that. But Nuoc Cham and Nuoc Mam are even harder for people to
> accept because of their taste AND smell.
>
> And then we have shrimp paste, which de-feets all known
> sensibilities. They literally smell like da feet.
>
> But together in the right quantities and when cooked properly are
> simply heaven on the taste buds.
>
> Unfortunately my cow-orkers don't share my love of Asian foods.
> Especially when I heat them up in the microwave. I miss living in
> San Jose with non-Texans.
>
> -sw

Food was a festival where I worked. There was one lady from Vietnam and
two from Cambodia, one lady was from Mexico city and one from Iraq. Our
receptionist was from Scotland, she and I were the only two people you
could understand on the phone, from what we heard.

Becca

Sqwertz wrote:
> Becca > wrote:
>
>> My husband makes good stir fries, but Vietnamese cooking was new to him.
>> I told him about the nuoc mau before I showed him the jar, because I did
>> not want him to taste it first. If most people tasted a spoon full of
>> salt or sriracha sauce for the first time, they might not care for it,
>> just by itself. Used right, it tastes great.
>
> Nuoc Mau/Nuoc Hang taste nasty on their own - There's no arguing
> that. But Nuoc Cham and Nuoc Mam are even harder for people to
> accept because of their taste AND smell.
>
> And then we have shrimp paste, which de-feets all known
> sensibilities. They literally smell like da feet.
>
> But together in the right quantities and when cooked properly are
> simply heaven on the taste buds.
>
> Unfortunately my cow-orkers don't share my love of Asian foods.
> Especially when I heat them up in the microwave. I miss living in
> San Jose with non-Texans.
>
> -sw

Shrimp paste! Swoon. But it is an acquired taste. The first
time one encounters it, there is/can be a hurdle.

--
Jean B.

Yeff > wrote:

> The weirdest
> one I remember was the guy who had sliced hot-dogs in his kimchi soup.
> Even the people who'd never been to Korea objected.

Instead of objecting they ought to have considered budae jjiggae.

Victor