In article >,
lid says...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> > "James Silverton" > wrote in
> >> > news:zER8l.4060 :
> >
> >> >> I got caught by one of those damned mobile speed cameras. I
> >> >> could have sworn the limit was 45, which is what I was
> >> >> doing, but I checked and there is a new sign near the fire
> >> >> station saying 35! I think I missed it because I was busy
> >> >> reading the dumb messages the firemen display; this time a
> >> >> warning not to leave cooking unattended. How about crock
> >> >> pots? It cost me $40 but no points or reporting to my
> >> >> insurance company.
> >
> > Don't know about the speeding cameras, but they're into the red
> > light cameras north of here. Big signs warning you, and they
> > say US$270 *minimum* fine. You can get it wiped, depending on
> > your record, so it's no points and no insurance notification.
> > That's *another* US$40, plus a one day class, plus the fee for
> > the class (mine was US$28).
> >
> >> No kidding. Last month I got a *parking* ticket that was $45.
> >> And that wasn't for illegal handicapped parking or antying like
> >> that -- I just ran my meter out.
> >
> > My daughter has no parking space, so she has to park on the
> > street. Once a month, they sweep the streets. No parking on
> > the street in the neighborhood. She's gotten two tickets. I
> > think they're US$50.
>
> Sweeping is weekly here. In my case, every Thursday from 10 AM to
> noon is the no-parking window. And it's by street side, so you
> can generally move to the other side...if you get there first. I
> haven't got a ticket for that in so long that I don't know how
> much they cost.
>
>
>

Street sweeping in my area is done at night. As it currently exists
there's an ordinance that says any car parked on the street in a
residential neighborhood after 1AM is considered overtime parking and
will be ticketed.

There's a big move to implement resident permit parking. This makes
sense since much of Providence was built between sometime in the late
1700's to the early 1900's. They didn't have cars so no driveways.

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:


> It ****ed me off that various levels of government are expected to
> provide funding to the city to try to attract people downtown when the
> city is aggressively enforcing meter violations. That just ****es people
> off and they end up going to the malls instead. If you want to attract
> people to downtown areas to attract business you can't turn around and
> penalize them over piddly amounts for parking. One of the smaller local
> cities smartened up and revitalized downtown by tearing out the parking
> meters.

That happened in my city (Petaluma, California). They not only took out
all the parking meters, but built a *free* parking garage. I believe
that the downtown merchants agreed to help pay for this. Now the only
problem is employees parking on the street for the whole day. Of
course, they didn't park in front of where they worked, because then the
boss would get mad, but they would park next door, or around the corner.
So it's two hour parking downtown, and you can't just move your car a
few feet every two hours. It's two hours per *block*. The top of the
free parking garage always has space, and is good for eight hours. It
has an elevator.

> As for handicapped parking, it should only be valid for those drivers
> who have a mobility problem. If there is an able bodied person they
> should drop the disabled person off at the door and then park out in the
> lot with everyone else. Use of a disabled parking permit by someone
> other than the named permit holder should result in confiscation of the
> permit.

I hope you don't mind taking over the transportation duties for my
father. He has senile dementia. If you leave him for two minutes, he's
gone. He doesn't know how he got there, what he's doing there, where
he's going, where he lives or the phone number there. The phone number
and address are on a bracelet on his wrist, but he doesn't remember that.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Wed 07 Jan 2009 06:01:11p, T told us...

> In article >,
> lid says...
>> Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> > "James Silverton" > wrote in
>> >> > news:zER8l.4060 :
>> >
>> >> >> I got caught by one of those damned mobile speed cameras. I
>> >> >> could have sworn the limit was 45, which is what I was
>> >> >> doing, but I checked and there is a new sign near the fire
>> >> >> station saying 35! I think I missed it because I was busy
>> >> >> reading the dumb messages the firemen display; this time a
>> >> >> warning not to leave cooking unattended. How about crock
>> >> >> pots? It cost me $40 but no points or reporting to my
>> >> >> insurance company.
>> >
>> > Don't know about the speeding cameras, but they're into the red
>> > light cameras north of here. Big signs warning you, and they
>> > say US$270 *minimum* fine. You can get it wiped, depending on
>> > your record, so it's no points and no insurance notification.
>> > That's *another* US$40, plus a one day class, plus the fee for
>> > the class (mine was US$28).
>> >
>> >> No kidding. Last month I got a *parking* ticket that was $45.
>> >> And that wasn't for illegal handicapped parking or antying like
>> >> that -- I just ran my meter out.
>> >
>> > My daughter has no parking space, so she has to park on the
>> > street. Once a month, they sweep the streets. No parking on
>> > the street in the neighborhood. She's gotten two tickets. I
>> > think they're US$50.
>>
>> Sweeping is weekly here. In my case, every Thursday from 10 AM to
>> noon is the no-parking window. And it's by street side, so you
>> can generally move to the other side...if you get there first. I
>> haven't got a ticket for that in so long that I don't know how
>> much they cost.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Street sweeping in my area is done at night. As it currently exists
> there's an ordinance that says any car parked on the street in a
> residential neighborhood after 1AM is considered overtime parking and
> will be ticketed.
>
> There's a big move to implement resident permit parking. This makes
> sense since much of Providence was built between sometime in the late
> 1700's to the early 1900's. They didn't have cars so no driveways.
>
>

Where did they put the carriages and how did they geet to them?

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Wednesday, 01(I)/07(VII)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
1wks 4dys 5hrs 48mins
************************************************** **********************
You never get a second chance to make the first impression.
************************************************** **********************

In article > ,
says...
> Becca wrote:
>
> > There is a cop in Arkadelphia, AR and we were stopped for speeding. We
> > had two choices; pay an $80 traffic ticket or a citation for $150. If
> > we paid the ticket, it would be reported to the state (and to the
> > insurance company). If we paid the citation, nobody would know. We paid
> > the citation.
> >
> > We go to a friend's BBQ in Hot Springs every year, and this cop is
> > always there in the same spot. The speed limit drops from 70 to 55 and
> > we were too busy gabbing to notice. It was our fault 100%. Safety
> > first, they say.
>
>
> FWIW, around here, when I was working in commercial vehicle enforcement,
> we got none of the fine revenues we generated. We could not even use
> them to justify our programs. One of the problems we had was that too
> many trucking operations considered fines to be a cost of doing business.
>
> The single biggest problem we had was brake adjustment, which is easy
> enough to detect and easy to fix. When I first started, we used to just
> put trucks out of service and the drivers had to adjust them before
> preceding, or have road service come out and do it for them. That would
> tie them up for a while. When the out of service rate stayed high our
> management pushed us to lay charges, which involved a $90 fine. Fact was
> that the regulations for adjustment really weren't adequate, so they
> wrote a new regulation to spell out adjustment limits and the fine was
> $180. The OOS rate did not drop. After a year they boosted the fine,
> and with the victim funs surcharge it was almost $500. Within a few
> months the OOS rate plummeted.
>
> There are a lot of people who complain that fines are just revenue
> generators, but from what I have seen, people are willing to pay fines
> if they aren't too expensive. When the fines become really expensive,
> people start to pay attention and comply.
>
>
> BTW.... we also had a problem with insurance. For years, the maximum
> fine for driving without insurance was only $500. For most people, it
> was cheaper to pay the fine than to pay for insurance. I knew of one
> case where a guy had three convictions within 6 months and got reduced
> fines for each of them, totalling only $450. Then they boosted the
> minimum to $5,000 for a first offence, and $10,000 for a second offence,
> and those were minimums. They could go a lot higher. It is no longer
> cheaper to pay the fine that to buy insurance.
>
> Then there is our new speed laws. If you get caught driving more than 50
> kph (30 mph) over the limit, the fine is $2,000. Your driver licence is
> automatically suspended and your vehicle is impounded. Thousand of
> people were caught within the first few months, but they eventually
> clued in. I don't see too many people speeding like that any more.

That is what you call draconian enforcement. In the U.S. that would
NEVER stand.

In article >,
says...
>
> >>> No kidding. Last month I got a *parking* ticket that was $45.
> >>> And that wasn't for illegal handicapped parking or antying like
> >>> that -- I just ran my meter out.
> >>
>
> Buy a watch and pay attention to the meter time.
>
> If you were in a handicapped spot chances are it would have been $200+
>
>
>

That's the other thing about parking tickets. In RI there are various
plate types. 01 is a regular passenger plate, while amateur radio plates
are type 18's.

The other thing is that on RI license plates I's look like 1's and vice
versa.

I'll never forget it. One day I catch a ride in my friend KA1RCI's car
and I notice a pile of tickets in the glove compartment.

Stupid meter molly kept writing KAIRCI instead of KA1RCI. Good luck with
all that.

In article >,
says...
> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> > On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:04:51 -0600, Janet Wilder
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> So sorry to hear that, Carol. Send him my best wishes. Dilaudid is good
> >> stuff. Fentanyl never did anything for me.
> >
> > The Dilaudid had him reaching for things that weren't there, and
> > telling me the most extraordinary stories. No wonder Christy saw
> > hundreds of cats standing on lemon drops!
> >
> > BTW, thank you to everyone who has sent your good wishes. The Patient
> > finally woke up, just as I was typing this message, and he seems to
> > have his wits about him again.
> >
> > I'm gonna keep this little adventure off the NG after this post, and
> > will e-mail those who have expressed concern, or who are already in my
> > address book. If you want Crash updates, please drop me a note, and
> > I'll add you to the list.
> >
> > Carol
> >
>
>
> Carol -
>
> You might want to invest in a pair of these for the icy days:
>
> http://www.cabelas.com/hprod-1/0003364.shtml
>
> I have a pair of these (the middle ones), and use them on a dedicated
> pair of mocs like the ones shown in the middle.
>
> I have a retarded Terrier mix that at seven years old, still has the
> brain of a puppy, and can't be trusted to walk on our property (10
> acres) when time to go outside without taking off in a straight line for
> the road, and he runs like a gray hound. So, I'm forced to walk him on a
> leash twice a day rain or shine. On the days where there is ice on the
> ground surface, or we've had an "ice rain", I wear these.
>
> I know they work as I've busted my butt a number of times prior to
> buying them.
>
> Bob
>
>

I've used Yaktrax. Hey, if they're good enough for USPS they're good
enough for me.

http://www.yaktrax.com/

T wrote:
>
>
>> BTW.... we also had a problem with insurance. For years, the maximum
>> fine for driving without insurance was only $500. For most people, it
>> was cheaper to pay the fine than to pay for insurance. I knew of one
>> case where a guy had three convictions within 6 months and got reduced
>> fines for each of them, totalling only $450. Then they boosted the
>> minimum to $5,000 for a first offence, and $10,000 for a second offence,
>> and those were minimums. They could go a lot higher. It is no longer
>> cheaper to pay the fine that to buy insurance.
>>
>> Then there is our new speed laws. If you get caught driving more than 50
>> kph (30 mph) over the limit, the fine is $2,000. Your driver licence is
>> automatically suspended and your vehicle is impounded. Thousand of
>> people were caught within the first few months, but they eventually
>> clued in. I don't see too many people speeding like that any more.
>
> That is what you call draconian enforcement. In the U.S. that would
> NEVER stand.

Isn't the US the land where people have had their property seized
because someone was growing pot on it? They get their cars back.

>

On Wed 07 Jan 2009 12:47:48p, Dave Smith told us...

> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> A few towns near here that have metered parking in municipal parking
>> lots now have meters where you can also swipe a credit/debit card.
>
> I hate the new machines where you put put money into a central meter and
> get a ticket to stick on in the front window of your car. If you find
> that you are going to be longer than expected you have to go back and
> put in enough money to validate it until that new time, and you get no
> credit for the time you have left on the old one. In one city near year,
> there are a number of municipal lots scattered around town. They all
> charge the same rates, but they are valid only for the lot where you got
> it. There is no reason I can think of that, should you have business
> elsewhere, and time remaining on your ticket, that you should not be
> able to use it in another municipal lot.
>
>
> I once caught a parking enforcement guy about to stick a parking ticket
> on my car. There was still two minutes left on the meter. That prick
> was going to give me a ticket before the meter ran out. I confronted
> him about it and he whined that it was almost out. There is a difference
> between being expired and almost expired.
>
> It ****ed me off that various levels of government are expected to
> provide funding to the city to try to attract people downtown when the
> city is aggressively enforcing meter violations. That just ****es people
> off and they end up going to the malls instead. If you want to attract
> people to downtown areas to attract business you can't turn around and
> penalize them over piddly amounts for parking. One of the smaller local
> cities smartened up and revitalized downtown by tearing out the parking
> meters.
>
>
> As for handicapped parking, it should only be valid for those drivers
> who have a mobility problem. If there is an able bodied person they
> should drop the disabled person off at the door and then park out in the
> lot with everyone else. Use of a disabled parking permit by someone
> other than the named permit holder should result in confiscation of the
> permit.

It really depends on what you define as a "mobility" problem. It should
include, probably among others, those with serious heart conditions,
serious breathing difficulties, people seriously weakened by chemotherapy,
etc. Many of those people do not "appear" to have a mobility problem, but
if fact they do. If they had to walk from a distant parking space, they
might not make it, or it may worsen their condition. Some of those same
people require assistance in walking any distance at all, which would
require that an able-bodied person accompany them. As you seem to have
defined it, I think you're being overly harsh.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Wednesday, 01(I)/07(VII)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
1wks 4dys 5hrs 42mins
************************************************** **********************
Bill Clinton thinks that Cheerios are donut seeds.
************************************************** **********************

In article >,
ChattyCathy > wrote:


> Similar tricks happen here too. Best one I've seen is at some of our
> traffic lights... We sometimes also have those flashing 'yield' arrows
> for left turns at the intersection - I know, we drive on the wrong side
> of the road here, but bear with me. This means that even if the traffic
> lights are red, you don't have to stop and wait for green when doing a
> left turn, but may proceed if it's safe to do so. i.e. when the
> intersection is clear of other traffic.
>
> Anyway, I've noticed several of these 'arrows' have been removed from
> some of the traffic lights over the years (with no warning
> whatsoever) - which means one has to stop, no matter what. So... folks
> who have been used to the 'yield arrows' being there for years and
> years, often don't notice they're not there anymore - and turn when
> it's safe to do so. Heh. A week or two later they get a $US50.00 fine
> in the post (with a nice pic of their car on it) for running a red
> light... BTW, it's not that they're phasing them out completely or
> anything, I've seen them at 'brand new' intersections too.

They are getting rid of some of those around here, and putting in fewer
new ones. People want to know why? Turns out that most people figure
the coast is clear if there is nothing bigger than them coming.
Pedestrians are, unfortunately, pretty much invisible to cars. The
thought is that if people have to stop, even at an intersection where no
cars could possibly come, drivers might possibly see a pedestrian
crossing the street.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
"Jean B." > wrote:


> periodic reminders. And I think it's not playing fair to fiddle
> with the speed limit or light timing and them immediately start
> fining people. There should at the very least be a introductory
> period, for people to become acclimated or be warned. But I see
> this is a money-making proposition.

They are pretty good around here. They put up a sign saying "changed
conditions" with red flags on either side of it.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
says...
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:23:04 GMT, James Silverton wrote:
>
> > MG wrote on Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:51:43 GMT:
> >
> >
> >>no...if you don't speed, you don't get caught...easy
> >
> > How bloody profound! Many speed limits are assigned on a basis of the
> > squeaky wheel !
>
> my sympathies are with the residents in many cases. if you live on an
> 'alternate' rush hour route, people can come zipping through pretty damn
> fast. the proliferation of speed bumps is annoying, though.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>

Don't get me started on speed bumps, particularly in an urban
environment.

The city thought it would be a good idea to put 'traffic calming'
measures in place in the dicier parts of the city.

Only problem is this causes havoc with emergency equipment.

I'd like to meet the guy who thought up that idea and give him a piece
of my mind.

In article > ,
says...
> blake murphy wrote:
> > On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:23:04 GMT, James Silverton wrote:
> >
> >> MG wrote on Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:51:43 GMT:
> >>
> >>
> >>> no...if you don't speed, you don't get caught...easy
> >> How bloody profound! Many speed limits are assigned on a basis of the
> >> squeaky wheel !
> >
> > my sympathies are with the residents in many cases. if you live on an
> > 'alternate' rush hour route, people can come zipping through pretty damn
> > fast. the proliferation of speed bumps is annoying, though.
>
>
> I live on a country road that is rarely very busy, but there are a lot
> of cars that are travelling way past what is a reasonably safe rate of
> speed for the conditions. There lightly rolling hills, no shoulders,
> blind intersections and driveways, farm tractors and equipment,
> cyclists, walkers and wildlife. When we first moved here the speed
> limit was 70 kph, and there was a horrible accident rate. There were
> five crashes in front of our house or within a few hundred feet of our
> property withing the first two years we lived here. I never saw any
> speed enforcement. The town dropped the speed limit down to 60 kph. It
> didn't slow people down, and there was still no enforcement. Then the
> they dropped the limit to 50 kph. I still don't see any speed
> enforcement, but most people have slowed down. There are not as many
> accidents, and it is a lot quieter, since slower moving cars don;t make
> as much noise.
>
> The town has put in more stop signs at the intersections, which are a
> mile apart. That seems to have helped. They tended to open up a little
> more when it was a long, uninterrupted stretch. The town also installed
> streetlights, and for some reason that seemed to help slow people down too.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Interestingly we spent the past two holidays in northeastern North
Carolina. Last year you hardly ever saw the state, county or local PD's
on NC-17.

This year I noted quite a bit more activity on the part of the law.
Apparently someone got a hair across their ass.

In article >,
says...
> Dave wrote on Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:47:48 -0500:
>
> >> A few towns near here that have metered parking in municipal parking
> >> lots now have meters where you can also swipe a
> >> credit/debit card.
>
> > I hate the new machines where you put money into a central
> > meter and get a ticket to stick on in the front window of your
>
> >. One of the
> > smaller local cities smartened up and revitalized downtown by tearing
> > out the parking meters.
>
> >As for handicapped parking, it should only be valid for those drivers
> >who have a mobility problem. If there is an able bodied person they
> >should drop the disabled person off at the door and then park out in
> >the lot with everyone else. Use of a disabled parking permit by someone
> >other than the named permit holder should result in confiscation of the
> >permit.
>
> Parking meters were oriiginally introduced so that people would not
> leave their cars when they did not need to. In other words, to
> facilitate commerce. Such is no longer the case since municipalities
> short sightedly often regard them as cash cows.
>
> I would advise some caution and charity in suspecting people of
> mis-using handicapped permits and spaces since some perfectly healthy
> looking people cannot walk long distances.

City of Providence installed over 2,000 more parking meters in recent
years. In some instances they have a solar powered kiosk that provides
slips proving you paid for parking. The kiosks accept coin, cash or
credit/debit cards. No more fishing for change.

They also gave over parking enforcement to a private company. I've seen
their 'enforcers' swagger down the road, it's pretty funny.

They also run a van around with cameras mounted at both left and right.
The cameras hook into a computer and as they drive along the computer
reads the license plates on the cars looking for scoflaws who have 2
outstanding tickets.

In article 7>,
says...
> On Wed 07 Jan 2009 06:01:11p, T told us...
>
> > In article >,
> > lid says...
> >> Dan Abel wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> > "James Silverton" > wrote in
> >> >> > news:zER8l.4060 :
> >> >
> >> >> >> I got caught by one of those damned mobile speed cameras. I
> >> >> >> could have sworn the limit was 45, which is what I was
> >> >> >> doing, but I checked and there is a new sign near the fire
> >> >> >> station saying 35! I think I missed it because I was busy
> >> >> >> reading the dumb messages the firemen display; this time a
> >> >> >> warning not to leave cooking unattended. How about crock
> >> >> >> pots? It cost me $40 but no points or reporting to my
> >> >> >> insurance company.
> >> >
> >> > Don't know about the speeding cameras, but they're into the red
> >> > light cameras north of here. Big signs warning you, and they
> >> > say US$270 *minimum* fine. You can get it wiped, depending on
> >> > your record, so it's no points and no insurance notification.
> >> > That's *another* US$40, plus a one day class, plus the fee for
> >> > the class (mine was US$28).
> >> >
> >> >> No kidding. Last month I got a *parking* ticket that was $45.
> >> >> And that wasn't for illegal handicapped parking or antying like
> >> >> that -- I just ran my meter out.
> >> >
> >> > My daughter has no parking space, so she has to park on the
> >> > street. Once a month, they sweep the streets. No parking on
> >> > the street in the neighborhood. She's gotten two tickets. I
> >> > think they're US$50.
> >>
> >> Sweeping is weekly here. In my case, every Thursday from 10 AM to
> >> noon is the no-parking window. And it's by street side, so you
> >> can generally move to the other side...if you get there first. I
> >> haven't got a ticket for that in so long that I don't know how
> >> much they cost.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Street sweeping in my area is done at night. As it currently exists
> > there's an ordinance that says any car parked on the street in a
> > residential neighborhood after 1AM is considered overtime parking and
> > will be ticketed.
> >
> > There's a big move to implement resident permit parking. This makes
> > sense since much of Providence was built between sometime in the late
> > 1700's to the early 1900's. They didn't have cars so no driveways.
> >
> >
>
> Where did they put the carriages and how did they geet to them?
>
>

They had carriage houses of course, and many of those are now
apartments.

The east side of the city is quite spectacular. All homes built in the
17th century.

I neglected to mention those.

Here's a nice little cottage:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1261963...29282/sizes/o/

First Baptist church, because it was the first.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1261963...izes/o/in/set-
72157601839897613/

If I had the money I'd buy this in a heartbeat.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/italian...40528/sizes/o/

I love Providence, if only the ****ing politicians could pull their
heads out of their asses.

In article > ,
says...
> T wrote:
> >
> >
> >> BTW.... we also had a problem with insurance. For years, the maximum
> >> fine for driving without insurance was only $500. For most people, it
> >> was cheaper to pay the fine than to pay for insurance. I knew of one
> >> case where a guy had three convictions within 6 months and got reduced
> >> fines for each of them, totalling only $450. Then they boosted the
> >> minimum to $5,000 for a first offence, and $10,000 for a second offence,
> >> and those were minimums. They could go a lot higher. It is no longer
> >> cheaper to pay the fine that to buy insurance.
> >>
> >> Then there is our new speed laws. If you get caught driving more than 50
> >> kph (30 mph) over the limit, the fine is $2,000. Your driver licence is
> >> automatically suspended and your vehicle is impounded. Thousand of
> >> people were caught within the first few months, but they eventually
> >> clued in. I don't see too many people speeding like that any more.
> >
> > That is what you call draconian enforcement. In the U.S. that would
> > NEVER stand.
>
> Isn't the US the land where people have had their property seized
> because someone was growing pot on it? They get their cars back.
>
> >
>

Yes, and of course eminent domain was also interpreted to mean that
property could be taken if it enhanced the municipal tax coffers.

"notbob" > wrote in message
>
> In CA, red-light runners are typically fined $250-400. The companies get
> about 50% of revenues. Any wonder they'll finance complete intersection
> make-overs. And yes, the yellow light times are fudged. Some states
> and/or municipalities are rightfully outraged and ban the whole idea.
> Others greedily embrace it.

That sounds like outright corruption. No way should a private enterprise be
allowed to profit from law enforcement. Those fines are a bit steep too. CT
is $60, RI is $30, but NYC can really hit you hard for multiple violations
$1000 for the third in 18 months
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2000/rpt/olr/htm/2000-r-0792.htm

On Wed 07 Jan 2009 07:59:29p, T told us...

> In article 7>,
> says...
>> On Wed 07 Jan 2009 06:01:11p, T told us...
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > lid says...
>> >> Dan Abel wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> > "James Silverton" > wrote in
>> >> >> > news:zER8l.4060 :
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> I got caught by one of those damned mobile speed cameras. I
>> >> >> >> could have sworn the limit was 45, which is what I was
>> >> >> >> doing, but I checked and there is a new sign near the fire
>> >> >> >> station saying 35! I think I missed it because I was busy
>> >> >> >> reading the dumb messages the firemen display; this time a
>> >> >> >> warning not to leave cooking unattended. How about crock
>> >> >> >> pots? It cost me $40 but no points or reporting to my
>> >> >> >> insurance company.
>> >> >
>> >> > Don't know about the speeding cameras, but they're into the red
>> >> > light cameras north of here. Big signs warning you, and they
>> >> > say US$270 *minimum* fine. You can get it wiped, depending on
>> >> > your record, so it's no points and no insurance notification.
>> >> > That's *another* US$40, plus a one day class, plus the fee for
>> >> > the class (mine was US$28).
>> >> >
>> >> >> No kidding. Last month I got a *parking* ticket that was $45.
>> >> >> And that wasn't for illegal handicapped parking or antying like
>> >> >> that -- I just ran my meter out.
>> >> >
>> >> > My daughter has no parking space, so she has to park on the
>> >> > street. Once a month, they sweep the streets. No parking on
>> >> > the street in the neighborhood. She's gotten two tickets. I
>> >> > think they're US$50.
>> >>
>> >> Sweeping is weekly here. In my case, every Thursday from 10 AM to
>> >> noon is the no-parking window. And it's by street side, so you
>> >> can generally move to the other side...if you get there first. I
>> >> haven't got a ticket for that in so long that I don't know how
>> >> much they cost.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Street sweeping in my area is done at night. As it currently exists
>> > there's an ordinance that says any car parked on the street in a
>> > residential neighborhood after 1AM is considered overtime parking and
>> > will be ticketed.
>> >
>> > There's a big move to implement resident permit parking. This makes
>> > sense since much of Providence was built between sometime in the late
>> > 1700's to the early 1900's. They didn't have cars so no driveways.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Where did they put the carriages and how did they geet to them?
>>
>>
>
> They had carriage houses of course, and many of those are now
> apartments.
>
> The east side of the city is quite spectacular. All homes built in the
> 17th century.
>
> I neglected to mention those.
>
> Here's a nice little cottage:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/1261963...29282/sizes/o/
>
> First Baptist church, because it was the first.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/1261963...izes/o/in/set-
> 72157601839897613/
>
> If I had the money I'd buy this in a heartbeat.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/italian...40528/sizes/o/
>
> I love Providence, if only the ****ing politicians could pull their
> heads out of their asses.
>
>

All really beautiful, Tony! I'd love living in a place like that. Thanks
for the pix!

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Wednesday, 01(I)/07(VII)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
1wks 4dys 3hrs 53mins
************************************************** **********************
Don't believe them, don't believe them, question everything you're told
************************************************** **********************

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Stan Horwitz wrote:
>
>> Traffic enforcement cameras are all about ripping off people and
>> nothing about traffic safety. Philadelphia is notorious for its short
>> yellow lights. If you blink, the yellow signal changes to red.
>
> I'm sure you've seen Parking Wars. Amusing to watch but
> I feel sorry for some of those people.

I feel sorry for very few. I can't help but wonder why someone would
complain it is "unfair" to have their car booted when they ignore a dozen
tickets. OTOH, a few that went to pick up towed cars seem to get a lot of
crap for no sensible reason.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>> As for handicapped parking, it should only be valid for those drivers
>> who have a mobility problem. If there is an able bodied person they
>> should drop the disabled person off at the door and then park out in the
>> lot with everyone else. Use of a disabled parking permit by someone
>> other than the named permit holder should result in confiscation of the
>> permit.
>
> It really depends on what you define as a "mobility" problem. It should
> include, probably among others, those with serious heart conditions,
> serious breathing difficulties, people seriously weakened by chemotherapy,
> etc. Many of those people do not "appear" to have a mobility problem, but
> if fact they do. If they had to walk from a distant parking space, they
> might not make it, or it may worsen their condition. Some of those same
> people require assistance in walking any distance at all, which would
> require that an able-bodied person accompany them. As you seem to have
> defined it, I think you're being overly harsh.

I realize that it is difficult for we lay people to know who does and
who doesn't need a handicapped parking permit, but I am sure that we all
know of lots of cases where they are abused. Hell, the other day I was
coming out of a coffee shop and saw someone pull into the only handicap
space and sat in the car while the passenger got out and practically ran
in to get coffee. I find it hard to believe that particular passenger
was the one for whom the permit had been issued, and if the driver was
just sitting there waiting there is no reason that he could not have
parked in a regular space and left it available for someone to need it.

Then there are all those reserved spaces I mentioned at out local Y.
It's amazing how much some of those people can do in the gym, but still
need to get the front row parking. More than 10% of that parking lot is
designated handicapped.

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> >> Then there is our new speed laws. If you get caught driving more than 50
> >> kph (30 mph) over the limit, the fine is $2,000. Your driver licence is
> >> automatically suspended and your vehicle is impounded. Thousand of
> >> people were caught within the first few months, but they eventually
> >> clued in. I don't see too many people speeding like that any more.

> Isn't the US the land where people have had their property seized
> because someone was growing pot on it? They get their cars back.

For some vehicle infractions around here, as a practical matter, people
*don't* get their cars back. If it's lack of a valid driver's license
or vehicle registration, you don't get your car back until you have
proof that the violation is fixed. Between towing and storage charges,
they sometimes exceed the value of the car, so the towing company sells
the cars at auction. For folks here who aren't legal residents, they
*can't* get a driver's license. It's just a fact of life, part of the
reason they drive cheap cars is because they know once they get stopped,
that's the end of the car.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Wed 07 Jan 2009 08:32:52p, Dave Smith told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>>> As for handicapped parking, it should only be valid for those drivers
>>> who have a mobility problem. If there is an able bodied person they
>>> should drop the disabled person off at the door and then park out in
>>> the lot with everyone else. Use of a disabled parking permit by
>>> someone other than the named permit holder should result in
>>> confiscation of the permit.
>>
>> It really depends on what you define as a "mobility" problem. It
>> should include, probably among others, those with serious heart
>> conditions, serious breathing difficulties, people seriously weakened
>> by chemotherapy, etc. Many of those people do not "appear" to have a
>> mobility problem, but if fact they do. If they had to walk from a
>> distant parking space, they might not make it, or it may worsen their
>> condition. Some of those same people require assistance in walking any
>> distance at all, which would require that an able-bodied person
>> accompany them. As you seem to have defined it, I think you're being
>> overly harsh.
>
> I realize that it is difficult for we lay people to know who does and
> who doesn't need a handicapped parking permit, but I am sure that we all
> know of lots of cases where they are abused. Hell, the other day I was
> coming out of a coffee shop and saw someone pull into the only handicap
> space and sat in the car while the passenger got out and practically ran
> in to get coffee. I find it hard to believe that particular passenger
> was the one for whom the permit had been issued, and if the driver was
> just sitting there waiting there is no reason that he could not have
> parked in a regular space and left it available for someone to need it.
>
> Then there are all those reserved spaces I mentioned at out local Y.
> It's amazing how much some of those people can do in the gym, but still
> need to get the front row parking. More than 10% of that parking lot is
> designated handicapped.
>

Admittedly, it is a very difficult issue. The problem really lies with the
physicians who sign approval for their patient's handicap
tag/sticker/plate. They are really the only ones qualified to determine if
it is warranted.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Wednesday, 01(I)/07(VII)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
1wks 4dys 3hrs 19mins
************************************************** **********************
Political language is designed to make lies sound useful and murder
respectable.
************************************************** **********************

"T" > wrote in message
>
> That is what you call draconian enforcement. In the U.S. that would
> NEVER stand.
>

In CT if you go over 85 you can get nailed for reckless speeding and get a
$600 fine and up to a year in jail. Others can go to $775
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0027.htm

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> True enough, but you have to wonder sometimes. For instance, my local
> YMCA gym has 10 handicapped parking spaces, and there are usually at least
> a half dozen cars parked in them. It seems odd that someone can go into
> the gym and do their workout and then walk back to the car. I don't see
> often see anyone in wheelchair, with canes or walkers. If they can go in
> and work out I really have to wonder why they need preferred parking.
> Hell, I see these people in the gym getting their exercise.
>

Dave, educate yourself. Yes, there are abuses, but not all of them that you
think you see are. . There are people that have certain mobility problems
and go to the gym for upper body workout. That does not mean they can walk
any distance.

We lease space in our building at work to a gym. They have handicapped
parking and a ramp. They have many clients that go there for rehabilitative
work.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> As for handicapped parking, it should only be valid for those drivers who
> have a mobility problem. If there is an able bodied person they should
> drop the disabled person off at the door and then park out in the lot with
> everyone else. Use of a disabled parking permit by someone other than the
> named permit holder should result in confiscation of the permit.

Sorry, but I don't agree. My wife has a handicapped sticker and yes, we
often use it. Should I drop her off at the door and let her collapse and
fall while I go park? Do I make her lean against the wall in the rain or
freezing weather while I go fetch the car? Or do I park and them assist her
as needed as she is capable of walking that distance with some help but
could be seriously injured if just pushed out the door and made to wait.

Dave, I always thought you were intelligent, but you sure fumbled this with
your incorrect perceptions.

As for the confiscation, yes, if someone borrows granny's car to use the
sticker. Different situation entirely.

T wrote:

>
> I love Providence, if only the ****ing politicians could pull their
> heads out of their asses.
>



I heard ex-Mayor Buddy Cianci is out of jail. Is he gonna run for the
US Senate? R.I. voters seem to have a soft spot for convicted felons,
don't they?

;-)
gloria p

Dave Smith wrote:

>
> I realize that it is difficult for we lay people to know who does and
> who doesn't need a handicapped parking permit, but I am sure that we all
> know of lots of cases where they are abused.



I worked with someone who applied for and received a handicap permit
because she "often drove her elderly mother on errands." She would
visit her mother about once a month. She continued to use the permit
for many years after her mother died.

OTOH, I know someone with a prosthetic leg who has a permit because it
is painful for her to walk even though her prosthesis is not obvious.
When she was challenged by an onlooker a few years ago, she replied "Do
I have to hit you with my wooden leg to prove something?"

Ya never know....

gloria p

On Wed 07 Jan 2009 09:14:53p, Gloria P told us...

> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> I realize that it is difficult for we lay people to know who does and
>> who doesn't need a handicapped parking permit, but I am sure that we all
>> know of lots of cases where they are abused.
>
>
>
> I worked with someone who applied for and received a handicap permit
> because she "often drove her elderly mother on errands." She would
> visit her mother about once a month. She continued to use the permit
> for many years after her mother died.
>
> OTOH, I know someone with a prosthetic leg who has a permit because it
> is painful for her to walk even though her prosthesis is not obvious.
> When she was challenged by an onlooker a few years ago, she replied "Do
> I have to hit you with my wooden leg to prove something?"
>
> Ya never know....
>
> gloria p
>

People can be very strange. When I injured my back last year I was barely
able to walk *with a walker*, and had a temporary handicap tag. I stopped
at a strip of 4-5 stores and parked in a handicapped space. Just as I was
getting out of the car, a woman pulled into the handcapped space next to
me. Her car had a handicapped license plate. She watched me getting out
of the car and retrieving the walker from the back seat. She yelled to me,
"You don't look like you should be parking here!" She looked able enough,
and I replied that she didn't look as though she had a handicap. She was
stupid enough to admit that the license plate was for her husband not her
(her husband was not present). Some people are just nuts.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Wednesday, 01(I)/07(VII)/09(MMIX)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
1wks 4dys 2hrs 41mins
************************************************** **********************
The Conversation Sieve Defense: It doesn't matter what dumb thing
you say in a conversation, as long as the person you're talking to
is dumber.

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:


> I realize that it is difficult for we lay people to know who does and
> who doesn't need a handicapped parking permit, but I am sure that we all
> know of lots of cases where they are abused. Hell, the other day I was
> coming out of a coffee shop and saw someone pull into the only handicap
> space and sat in the car while the passenger got out and practically ran
> in to get coffee. I find it hard to believe that particular passenger
> was the one for whom the permit had been issued, and if the driver was
> just sitting there waiting there is no reason that he could not have
> parked in a regular space and left it available for someone to need it.

You certainly seem to get bothered by the thought that somebody is
getting a parking spot and you aren't. I just let these things roll off
my back. I believe in karma, that these folks will get theirs
eventually. If I *was* bothered, I would call the police. I don't
expect that they would always respond, but that would be the extent of
my involvement.

> Then there are all those reserved spaces I mentioned at out local Y.
> It's amazing how much some of those people can do in the gym, but still
> need to get the front row parking. More than 10% of that parking lot is
> designated handicapped.

I don't know your town, and I don't know that Y, but I seem to remember
that the Y is more than just a gymn, that there are meetings and
workshops happening at these places.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article 7>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> On Wed 07 Jan 2009 08:32:52p, Dave Smith told us...


> > Then there are all those reserved spaces I mentioned at out local Y.
> > It's amazing how much some of those people can do in the gym, but still
> > need to get the front row parking. More than 10% of that parking lot is
> > designated handicapped.
> >
>
> Admittedly, it is a very difficult issue. The problem really lies with the
> physicians who sign approval for their patient's handicap
> tag/sticker/plate. They are really the only ones qualified to determine if
> it is warranted.

I don't think Dave or anybody else is trying to second guess the doctor.
The problem is people misusing the permits. I've mentioned before that
both my sister and my uncle have permits, even though neither has a
disability. The permits are for my father. Well, the very idea of my
father driving is ridiculous. We took his car away 10 years ago. So,
he has mobility issues, so he needs to park in a reserved space. But he
can't drive, so somebody has to drive him.

Dave and almost everybody else knows that people *like* my sister and
uncle abuse the valid permits they have. And of course, there are those
who just park in those spaces without a permit at all, although the
police can nail those people pretty easily if they want to.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Dave Smith wrote:

> Isn't the US the land where people have had their property seized
> because someone was growing pot on it? They get their cars back.

The original idea was to take away the riches that drug lords
(for lack of a better term) made by importing and distributing
drugs.

It trickled down so that the police can confiscate your car if
you are caught driving with enough drugs to distribute. I don't
know how often this is used, relative to how many times it
could be. It would be crazy to lose a house for having a pot
plant in the yard, but I wouldn't say it hasn't happened.

nancy

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> I'm sure you've seen Parking Wars. Amusing to watch but
>> I feel sorry for some of those people.
>
> I feel sorry for very few. I can't help but wonder why someone would
> complain it is "unfair" to have their car booted when they ignore a
> dozen tickets.

I do not feel sorry for them. They are the amusing part of the
show, along with the employees who are characters.

> OTOH, a few that went to pick up towed cars seem to
> get a lot of crap for no sensible reason.

There are just some that can't seem to catch a break to
get their car back, and it was questionable why it was towed.
I wouldn't want that to happen to me in any city. What a
hassle.

nancy

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:07:13 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>I don't think Dave or anybody else is trying to second guess the doctor.
>The problem is people misusing the permits. I've mentioned before that
>both my sister and my uncle have permits, even though neither has a
>disability. The permits are for my father. Well, the very idea of my
>father driving is ridiculous. We took his car away 10 years ago. So,
>he has mobility issues, so he needs to park in a reserved space. But he
>can't drive, so somebody has to drive him.

That's our situation, too. Crash no longer has a license because he's
on narcotic pain killers, and every doctor involved agrees that he
will be for rest of his life because of the extent of his skeletal
injuries. On good days, we walk together from a handicap spot. On
bad days, I drop him off at the door and he is given a motorized cart
to use. I then park the car in the back 40 and walk to the store.

Anticipating a query ... no, he can't drive a car, and yes, he uses a
motorized cart. He's never hit anyone in the store. If he's too
messed up to use a cart, we just plain don't leave the house.

>Dave and almost everybody else knows that people *like* my sister and
>uncle abuse the valid permits they have. And of course, there are those
>who just park in those spaces without a permit at all, although the
>police can nail those people pretty easily if they want to.

Yeah, we loaned our car to an 18 year old this summer, and found out
that he was using the tag so he'd have more convenient parking. He's
still alive, but he's never driving our car again.

Carol

--
Change "invalid" to JamesBond's agent number to reply.

Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> ChattyCathy > wrote:
>
>
> They are getting rid of some of those around here, and putting in
> fewer
> new ones. People want to know why? Turns out that most people figure
> the coast is clear if there is nothing bigger than them coming.
> Pedestrians are, unfortunately, pretty much invisible to cars. The
> thought is that if people have to stop, even at an intersection where
> no cars could possibly come, drivers might possibly see a pedestrian
> crossing the street.
>
I hear what you're saying. But then how does that explain why they
sometimes put them back again? I still believe that they do it just
to 'make money' most of the time.

BTW, all the traffic lights I've seen here have those 'Walk/Don't walk'
signs on them for pedestrians. Pity a lot of pedestrians think they're
just there 'for show' because they take absolutely no notice of them.
I've lost count the number of times I've had to slam on my brakes
because a pedestrian was jaywalking (or 'jayrunning') - they suddenly
run across the road right in front of me... Even seen them do it on the
major highways where no pedestrians are supposed to be allowed in the
first place - and they wonder why they get maimed and/or killed. Sigh.
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:49:42 GMT, "MG" > wrote:

>perhaps there's some other issue that you're not aware of, at play here
>
Probably! I thought the era of speed traps ended decades ago, but it
looks (to me) like they are alive and well today.

or more to the point :\



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

T wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:04:51 -0600, Janet Wilder
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> So sorry to hear that, Carol. Send him my best wishes. Dilaudid is good
>>>> stuff. Fentanyl never did anything for me.
>>> The Dilaudid had him reaching for things that weren't there, and
>>> telling me the most extraordinary stories. No wonder Christy saw
>>> hundreds of cats standing on lemon drops!
>>>
>>> BTW, thank you to everyone who has sent your good wishes. The Patient
>>> finally woke up, just as I was typing this message, and he seems to
>>> have his wits about him again.
>>>
>>> I'm gonna keep this little adventure off the NG after this post, and
>>> will e-mail those who have expressed concern, or who are already in my
>>> address book. If you want Crash updates, please drop me a note, and
>>> I'll add you to the list.
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>
>> Carol -
>>
>> You might want to invest in a pair of these for the icy days:
>>
>> http://www.cabelas.com/hprod-1/0003364.shtml
>>
>> I have a pair of these (the middle ones), and use them on a dedicated
>> pair of mocs like the ones shown in the middle.
>>
>> I have a retarded Terrier mix that at seven years old, still has the
>> brain of a puppy, and can't be trusted to walk on our property (10
>> acres) when time to go outside without taking off in a straight line for
>> the road, and he runs like a gray hound. So, I'm forced to walk him on a
>> leash twice a day rain or shine. On the days where there is ice on the
>> ground surface, or we've had an "ice rain", I wear these.
>>
>> I know they work as I've busted my butt a number of times prior to
>> buying them.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>
> I've used Yaktrax. Hey, if they're good enough for USPS they're good
> enough for me.
>
> http://www.yaktrax.com/


T -

I can't speak about YakTrax as I haven't used them. I have used the pair
of Get-A-Grips (Ultra) for the last six years, and can state that when
I've used them, I've never fallen down on ice.

I think one advantage is that I can replace the spikes individually
whenever I want. For the YakTrax, I'd guess that once you start wearing
out the coil, you'd have to replace the whole thing. Also, I would be
more confident with 1/4 inch sharp spikes on real ice (like from an ice
rain that coats everything with a thick coating) then I would with a
coil of metal that wouldn't penetrate the surface.

Just my thoughts.

Bob

Dan Abel wrote:
>
> You certainly seem to get bothered by the thought that somebody is
> getting a parking spot and you aren't. I just let these things roll off
> my back. I believe in karma, that these folks will get theirs
> eventually. If I *was* bothered, I would call the police. I don't
> expect that they would always respond, but that would be the extent of
> my involvement.

Oh? I had no interest in that parking space. My point was that there
was no reason for that vehicle to park there. The way the passenger
bounded into the coffee shop he obviously had no mobility problems, and
the driver sat in the vehicle. If some other person with a disabled
parking permit came along, the space would not have been available for
that person.


>
>> Then there are all those reserved spaces I mentioned at out local Y.
>> It's amazing how much some of those people can do in the gym, but still
>> need to get the front row parking. More than 10% of that parking lot is
>> designated handicapped.
>
> I don't know your town, and I don't know that Y, but I seem to remember
> that the Y is more than just a gymn, that there are meetings and
> workshops happening at these places.

As I said, it is a small Y. There are not big meeting rooms. It has a
day care centre, but I don't think that any of the kids that attend that
drive. I don't begrudge them the reserved spaces for handicapped
drivers. I question the number of them. It is a 100 car lot and there
are 10 handicapped spaces, and there seems to be at least a half dozen
being used at any time. I just find it hard to believe that there are
that many people who can go in and do a workout but who would need to
have a handicapped space.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
m...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>> You certainly seem to get bothered by the thought that somebody is
>> getting a parking spot and you aren't. I just let these things roll off
>> my back. I believe in karma, that these folks will get theirs
>> eventually. If I *was* bothered, I would call the police. I don't
>> expect that they would always respond, but that would be the extent of my
>> involvement.
>
> Oh? I had no interest in that parking space. My point was that there was
> no reason for that vehicle to park there. The way the passenger bounded
> into the coffee shop he obviously had no mobility problems, and the driver
> sat in the vehicle. If some other person with a disabled parking permit
> came along, the space would not have been available for that person.
>
>
>>
>>> Then there are all those reserved spaces I mentioned at out local Y.
>>> It's amazing how much some of those people can do in the gym, but still
>>> need to get the front row parking. More than 10% of that parking lot is
>>> designated handicapped.
>>
>> I don't know your town, and I don't know that Y, but I seem to remember
>> that the Y is more than just a gymn, that there are meetings and
>> workshops happening at these places.
>
> As I said, it is a small Y. There are not big meeting rooms. It has a day
> care centre, but I don't think that any of the kids that attend that
> drive. I don't begrudge them the reserved spaces for handicapped drivers.
> I question the number of them. It is a 100 car lot and there are 10
> handicapped spaces, and there seems to be at least a half dozen being used
> at any time. I just find it hard to believe that there are that many
> people who can go in and do a workout but who would need to have a
> handicapped space.

Honestly, you need to learn to choose your battles. Between this and the
infamous "Welfare" thread of some months past, you seem to have a penchant
for kicking around people who are already wayyyy down. Not pretty.

ChattyCathy wrote:
>
> BTW, all the traffic lights I've seen here have those 'Walk/Don't walk'
> signs on them for pedestrians. Pity a lot of pedestrians think they're
> just there 'for show' because they take absolutely no notice of them.
> I've lost count the number of times I've had to slam on my brakes
> because a pedestrian was jaywalking (or 'jayrunning') - they suddenly
> run across the road right in front of me... Even seen them do it on the
> major highways where no pedestrians are supposed to be allowed in the
> first place - and they wonder why they get maimed and/or killed. Sigh.

We have a bigger problem with bicyclists. They seem not to realize that
stop signs and stop lights apply to them too, and the cycling clubs
often come out in groups of 10-12 and ride and 3 abreast. They refuse to
move over for cars, and when they come to an intersection the whole herd
goes through.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
m...
> ChattyCathy wrote:
>>
>> BTW, all the traffic lights I've seen here have those 'Walk/Don't walk'
>> signs on them for pedestrians. Pity a lot of pedestrians think they're
>> just there 'for show' because they take absolutely no notice of them.
>> I've lost count the number of times I've had to slam on my brakes
>> because a pedestrian was jaywalking (or 'jayrunning') - they suddenly
>> run across the road right in front of me... Even seen them do it on the
>> major highways where no pedestrians are supposed to be allowed in the
>> first place - and they wonder why they get maimed and/or killed. Sigh.
>
> We have a bigger problem with bicyclists. They seem not to realize that
> stop signs and stop lights apply to them too, and the cycling clubs often
> come out in groups of 10-12 and ride and 3 abreast. They refuse to move
> over for cars, and when they come to an intersection the whole herd goes
> through.

See, there you go again. Me, I hate SUVs.

On Jan 6, 6:17*pm, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> I got caught by one of those damned mobile speed cameras. I could have
> sworn the limit was 45, which is what I was doing, but I checked and
> there is a new sign near the fire station saying 35! I think *I missed
> it because I was busy reading the
> dumb messages the firemen display;

Take a speed reading course?

That's called a gotcha -