So yesterday my daughter and her boyfriend swung by the house, picked up
the dogs and their visibility vests and took them out to the trail. I
didn't think to tell her to take the loop counterclockwise - in other
words, away from the swimming holes, the creek and the beaver pond. I
only take the dogs that way when it's either warm enough to swim or cold
enough to be totally frozen over. The devil is in the in between.

So they head out clockwise, following the creek, and about a mile in,
sure enough Scully goes cannonballing down the embankment and dives into
the deep part of the creek, smashing through the thin glaze of ice. My
daughter said she literally screamed like a little girl when she hit the
water, paddled frantically to the far side and then raced up and down
the bank crying because she didn't want to come back through the water.

They turned back towards the trailhead but her coat was full of ice by
the time they got back to the van. Cooper got cold because he's got no
coat and not much mass so Boyfriend picked him up and zipped him inside
the front of his parka.

Only Zane was oblivious to the cold, careening around, ecstatic at the
chance to "blow out the carbon". The trail is Zane's idea of heaven.
It makes my heart catch in my throat to watch his sheer joy in motion,
running flat out just for the fun of it, long rangey legs driving him in
ground-devouring leaps, the silky fringe on his chest nearly sweeping
the ground.

He creates his own steeplechase course, deliberately veering towards
fallen trees and obstacles for the pleasure of vaulting over them,
cutting away from the trail, up into the woods. I can track his
progress by the sound of his trail bell and the rustle and crunch of the
carpet of leaves. He runs a wide loop around me as I walk along,
occasionally bombing down an embankment, falling with style, really, to
land in the trail just ahead of me, barking loudly. He does a couple of
quick spins just showing off, then engages his anti-grav unit and goes
back up the embankment with as little visible effort as coming down it took.

That boy needs more exercise and extra walks on lead around the
subdivision aren't cutting it. He needs more intensity, needs to
stretch out those legs and open up those lungs, so I've been looking
into buying him a mushing harness and rigging, and a scooter, so he can
pull me around the neighborhood.

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

<snipped for space>
> That boy needs more exercise and extra walks on lead around the
> subdivision aren't cutting it. He needs more intensity, needs to
> stretch out those legs and open up those lungs, so I've been looking
> into buying him a mushing harness and rigging, and a scooter, so he can
> pull me around the neighborhood.

I always love your writing. :-) You should do a column...

You may enjoy this video. I swear this dog is insane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sUL0KCIc48
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

Omelet wrote:
>
> You may enjoy this video. I swear this dog is insane:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sUL0KCIc48

ANOTHER dig at my SO. I've had enough of you people. All the good
stuff I copy and paste to this forum and this is my reward. **** you
all.

Kathleen wrote:
> So yesterday my daughter and her boyfriend swung by the house, picked up

Got some pics of these doggies?

:-)

phaeton wrote:

> Kathleen wrote:
>
>> So yesterday my daughter and her boyfriend swung by the house, picked up
>
>
> Got some pics of these doggies?
>
> :-)

Sure. I've posted this link in the past but for newbies;

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...caleid=en _US

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:

>phaeton wrote:
>
>> Kathleen wrote:
>>
>>> So yesterday my daughter and her boyfriend swung by the house, picked up
>>
>>
>> Got some pics of these doggies?
>>
>> :-)
>
>Sure. I've posted this link in the past but for newbies;
>
>http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...caleid=en _US
Loved the photos!! We must have gigantica BC. Mollie is huge but
just as sweet as your dogs look. Love BCs.

aloha,
Cea

In article >,
pure kona > wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
> > wrote:
>
> >phaeton wrote:
> >
> >> Kathleen wrote:
> >>
> >>> So yesterday my daughter and her boyfriend swung by the house, picked up
> >>
> >>
> >> Got some pics of these doggies?
> >>
> >> :-)
> >
> >Sure. I've posted this link in the past but for newbies;
> >
> >http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...tao&localeid=e
> >n_US
> Loved the photos!! We must have gigantica BC. Mollie is huge but
> just as sweet as your dogs look. Love BCs.
>
> aloha,
> Cea

I'm considering adopting a second one to play with Jewely and keep her
occupied.

Heaven knows the pounds euthanize a lot of them around here. :-( People
don't know what they are getting in to sometimes with them and their
energy levels.

I have .22 acres fenced yard for them to romp.

I prefer to adopt adult dogs from the shelter anyway...

This is the first BC I've ever owned and we are seriously loving her.
:-) Smart and OH so sweet! Easy to train too.
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

pure kona wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
> > wrote:
>
>
>>phaeton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Kathleen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>So yesterday my daughter and her boyfriend swung by the house, picked up
>>>
>>>
>>>Got some pics of these doggies?
>>>
>>>:-)
>>
>>Sure. I've posted this link in the past but for newbies;
>>
>>http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...caleid=en _US
>
> Loved the photos!! We must have gigantica BC. Mollie is huge but
> just as sweet as your dogs look. Love BCs.

Scully is 30 pounds, Zane is 40. When we first started playing flyball
almost 7 years ago Scully was one of the smallest BCs we saw. But
because small dogs bring lower jump heights there has been a strong bias
towards very petite females. These days it's not uncommon to see 25,
even 22 pound females.

The need for fast height dogs was also the driving force behind the
first generations of purpose-bred sport crosses. The border-jack was an
attempt to transplant a border collie's intelligence and drive into a
jack russell's body.

But as anybody who's had biology can tell you, F1 hybrids are all over
the place in terms of the expression of physical(and mental) traits and
these dogs were no exception. Sometimes it worked and you got a
compact, fast, hard-driving flyball machine who brought your team's jump
height down to 9 or 10 inches. Other times you got a border
collie-sized dog with a terrier's mentality. Then there were the
disasters, dogs who were a mass of conflicting impulses;
obsessive-compulsive blenders with teeth.

The best of those first crosses were bred, sometimes with each other,
sometimes to a pure bred dog, either another BC or jack, sometimes to
yet another breed. Border stacks are popular these days - border
collie, jack russell and staffordshire. Fast little dogs, but talk
about fugly... Their heads don't match their bodies

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Kathleen > wrote:
>
> <snipped for space>
>> That boy needs more exercise and extra walks on lead around the
>> subdivision aren't cutting it. He needs more intensity, needs to
>> stretch out those legs and open up those lungs, so I've been looking
>> into buying him a mushing harness and rigging, and a scooter, so he can
>> pull me around the neighborhood.
>
> I always love your writing. :-) You should do a column...
>
> You may enjoy this video. I swear this dog is insane:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sUL0KCIc48
>
>
That's one of my favourite videos on YouTube; there's a dog who truly
loved winter!

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:20:25 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> pure kona > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> >http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...tao&localeid=e
>> >n_US
>> Loved the photos!! We must have gigantica BC. Mollie is huge but
>> just as sweet as your dogs look. Love BCs.
>>
>> aloha,
>> Cea
>
>I'm considering adopting a second one to play with Jewely and keep her
>occupied.
>
>Heaven knows the pounds euthanize a lot of them around here. :-( People
>don't know what they are getting in to sometimes with them and their
>energy levels.
>
>I have .22 acres fenced yard for them to romp.
>
>I prefer to adopt adult dogs from the shelter anyway...
>
>This is the first BC I've ever owned and we are seriously loving her.
>:-) Smart and OH so sweet! Easy to train too.
Good idea to adopt from the shelter! This our first BC too. Yesterday
a neighbor (we each have about 5 acres) reported that a neighbor's
dog, a Rottweiler, came onto her property and tore up her cat and it
cost $1300 to fix the pet. remembered that our BC had been barking and
acting in her crazy BC way that day, running around with seemingly no
real direction, but always looking up towards that neighbor's farm.
Then I remembered that a BC's original job was to warn the shepherd of
an interloper coming near the sheep herd and realised that was what
Mollie was doing. Obviously she was "warning" us and that Rottweiler
was probably confused enough by Mollie's barking that he didn't dare
come near our farm. She would never attack another dog, but she is a
good harmless watch dog for our family and that includes the cats.

Yes I'd get another lickety split. Yes, foolish people, like the
people who turned in our Mollie as a pup. They loved her coloring but
lived in a condo- egads! They were smart enough to turn her into the
Humane Society and we were lucky to get her.

aloha,
Cea

In article >,
flitterbit > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Kathleen > wrote:
> >
> > <snipped for space>
> >> That boy needs more exercise and extra walks on lead around the
> >> subdivision aren't cutting it. He needs more intensity, needs to
> >> stretch out those legs and open up those lungs, so I've been looking
> >> into buying him a mushing harness and rigging, and a scooter, so he can
> >> pull me around the neighborhood.
> >
> > I always love your writing. :-) You should do a column...
> >
> > You may enjoy this video. I swear this dog is insane:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sUL0KCIc48
> >
> >
> That's one of my favourite videos on YouTube; there's a dog who truly
> loved winter!

I get a laugh ever time I watch it!
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

In article >,
pure kona > wrote:

> >I have .22 acres fenced yard for them to romp.
> >
> >I prefer to adopt adult dogs from the shelter anyway...
> >
> >This is the first BC I've ever owned and we are seriously loving her.
> >:-) Smart and OH so sweet! Easy to train too.
> Good idea to adopt from the shelter! This our first BC too. Yesterday
> a neighbor (we each have about 5 acres) reported that a neighbor's
> dog, a Rottweiler, came onto her property and tore up her cat and it
> cost $1300 to fix the pet. remembered that our BC had been barking and
> acting in her crazy BC way that day, running around with seemingly no
> real direction, but always looking up towards that neighbor's farm.
> Then I remembered that a BC's original job was to warn the shepherd of
> an interloper coming near the sheep herd and realised that was what
> Mollie was doing. Obviously she was "warning" us and that Rottweiler
> was probably confused enough by Mollie's barking that he didn't dare
> come near our farm. She would never attack another dog, but she is a
> good harmless watch dog for our family and that includes the cats.
>
> Yes I'd get another lickety split. Yes, foolish people, like the
> people who turned in our Mollie as a pup. They loved her coloring but
> lived in a condo- egads! They were smart enough to turn her into the
> Humane Society and we were lucky to get her.
>
> aloha,

BC's are not good apt. or condo dogs. :-( Not at all. Jewels was at the
shelter for quite awhile and was a week away from being put down. She
was about 8 months old when we adopted her.

She came into heat a week later. :-P I did not want to mess with that
so just paid the vet to board her until her spay date.

Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a neighborhood
stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over her and the front
porch! It was a royal mess.

I had her spayed anyway and aborted the litter.
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

Omelet wrote:


> BC's are not good apt. or condo dogs. :-( Not at all. Jewels was at the
> shelter for quite awhile and was a week away from being put down. She
> was about 8 months old when we adopted her.
>
> She came into heat a week later. :-P I did not want to mess with that
> so just paid the vet to board her until her spay date.

Scully is clean as a cat and kept herself so tidy that I might have
missed her first heat if I hadn't gotten an e-mail from a gal who owned
one of her litter sisters, saying that Sassy had come into season. So I
checked and, yup, sure enough...
>
> Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a neighborhood
> stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over her and the front
> porch! It was a royal mess.
>
> I had her spayed anyway and aborted the litter.

Yup. Sad, but not as sad as a litter of puppies sitting on death row in
a shelter.

The third Thursday of the month a local clinic hosts a Feral Sterile and
does assembly line spay and neuters on strays and low income pets.
Biology teachers can request specimens from pregnant spays for use in
the classroom.

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
>
> > BC's are not good apt. or condo dogs. :-( Not at all. Jewels was at the
> > shelter for quite awhile and was a week away from being put down. She
> > was about 8 months old when we adopted her.
> >
> > She came into heat a week later. :-P I did not want to mess with that
> > so just paid the vet to board her until her spay date.
>
> Scully is clean as a cat and kept herself so tidy that I might have
> missed her first heat if I hadn't gotten an e-mail from a gal who owned
> one of her litter sisters, saying that Sassy had come into season. So I
> checked and, yup, sure enough...

Their vulva is generally swollen.
Jewely left drops of blood in the hallway.

> >
> > Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a neighborhood
> > stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over her and the front
> > porch! It was a royal mess.
> >
> > I had her spayed anyway and aborted the litter.
>
> Yup. Sad, but not as sad as a litter of puppies sitting on death row in
> a shelter.

True, but Misty was spayed as soon as her heat was up so the litter was
not really even developing yet. I did the same with Samantha the cat.
She got loose when she came into heat the first time and finally came
home reeking of tomcat. Little slut. <g>

I'm a big proponent of spay/neuter. The number of cats and dogs put to
sleep every year due to overpopulation numbers in the millions. It's a
travesty.

>
> The third Thursday of the month a local clinic hosts a Feral Sterile and
> does assembly line spay and neuters on strays and low income pets.
> Biology teachers can request specimens from pregnant spays for use in
> the classroom.

I've seen the bodies of adult cats in the comparative anatomy classes
when I was in college.

I could NEVER dissect a cat. I just could not do that. :-(

Baby pigs maybe...
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Kathleen > wrote:

>
>>The third Thursday of the month a local clinic hosts a Feral Sterile and
>>does assembly line spay and neuters on strays and low income pets.
>>Biology teachers can request specimens from pregnant spays for use in
>>the classroom.
>
>
> I've seen the bodies of adult cats in the comparative anatomy classes
> when I was in college.
>
> I could NEVER dissect a cat. I just could not do that. :-(
>
> Baby pigs maybe...

When I was in college I worked as a glassware washer over at the school
of pharmacology. I traded assignments with a co-worker to get out of
going anywhere near the dog labs. The gal who traded with me was from
Kuwait, had never had a dog and to her they were just dirty animals so
it didn't bother her.

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> flitterbit > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Kathleen > wrote:
>>>
>>> <snipped for space>
>>>> That boy needs more exercise and extra walks on lead around the
>>>> subdivision aren't cutting it. He needs more intensity, needs to
>>>> stretch out those legs and open up those lungs, so I've been looking
>>>> into buying him a mushing harness and rigging, and a scooter, so he can
>>>> pull me around the neighborhood.
>>> I always love your writing. :-) You should do a column...
>>>
>>> You may enjoy this video. I swear this dog is insane:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sUL0KCIc48
>> >
>> >
>> That's one of my favourite videos on YouTube; there's a dog who truly
>> loved winter!
>
> I get a laugh ever time I watch it!
>
>
Me too

Kathleen wrote:
> phaeton wrote:
>
>> Kathleen wrote:
>>
>>> So yesterday my daughter and her boyfriend swung by the house, picked up
>>
>>
>> Got some pics of these doggies?
>>
>> :-)
>
> Sure. I've posted this link in the past but for newbies;
>
> http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...caleid=en _US
>
>
Thanks for the link; what beautiful dogs! (And you tell great stories
about them, too!)

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Kathleen > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>
>>
>>> BC's are not good apt. or condo dogs. :-( Not at all. Jewels was at the
>>> shelter for quite awhile and was a week away from being put down. She
>>> was about 8 months old when we adopted her.
>>>
>>> She came into heat a week later. :-P I did not want to mess with that
>>> so just paid the vet to board her until her spay date.
>> Scully is clean as a cat and kept herself so tidy that I might have
>> missed her first heat if I hadn't gotten an e-mail from a gal who owned
>> one of her litter sisters, saying that Sassy had come into season. So I
>> checked and, yup, sure enough...
>
> Their vulva is generally swollen.
> Jewely left drops of blood in the hallway.
>
>>> Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a neighborhood
>>> stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over her and the front
>>> porch! It was a royal mess.
>>>
>>> I had her spayed anyway and aborted the litter.
>> Yup. Sad, but not as sad as a litter of puppies sitting on death row in
>> a shelter.
>
> True, but Misty was spayed as soon as her heat was up so the litter was
> not really even developing yet. I did the same with Samantha the cat.
> She got loose when she came into heat the first time and finally came
> home reeking of tomcat. Little slut. <g>
>
> I'm a big proponent of spay/neuter. The number of cats and dogs put to
> sleep every year due to overpopulation numbers in the millions. It's a
> travesty.
>
>> The third Thursday of the month a local clinic hosts a Feral Sterile and
>> does assembly line spay and neuters on strays and low income pets.
>> Biology teachers can request specimens from pregnant spays for use in
>> the classroom.
>
> I've seen the bodies of adult cats in the comparative anatomy classes
> when I was in college.
>
> I could NEVER dissect a cat. I just could not do that. :-(
>
> Baby pigs maybe...
>
>
Nope, no animal dissections of any kind for me; frogs in high school was
bad enough. I was *not* destined to be a biologist!

Omelet wrote:

> Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a neighborhood
> stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over her and the front
> porch! It was a royal mess.

Our Bouvier came into heat shortly after we moved to this house. I had
built a kennel for her and she spent most of the day in the kennel while
she was in heat. We discovered that there were a lot of male dogs
roaming around, and they spent a lot of their time hanging around our
house. I didn't know whose dogs they were, but knowing what a male dogs
can be like around a bitch in heat I used to take a shotgun with me when
I took her back and forth to the kennel. Luckily I never had to use it
and she was spayed shortly after that first heat.

Friends on mine had a runted female Great Dane. She was normally a very
well behaved dog, but she was a slut. Every time she was in heat she
managed to sneak out of the house and have a tryst that ended up with a
litter of big puppies. They didn't want to have her spayed but ended up
doing it.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:06:21 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:

>pure kona wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
>> > wrote:
>> e photos!! We must have gigantica BC. Mollie is huge but
>> just as sweet as your dogs look. Love BCs.
>
>Scully is 30 pounds, Zane is 40. When we first started playing flyball
>almost 7 years ago Scully was one of the smallest BCs we saw. But
>because small dogs bring lower jump heights there has been a strong bias
>towards very petite females. These days it's not uncommon to see 25,
>even 22 pound females.
>
>The need for fast height dogs was also the driving force behind the
>first generations of purpose-bred sport crosses. The border-jack was an
>attempt to transplant a border collie's intelligence and drive into a
>jack russell's body.

Kathleen, did you mean that they are breeding down the size of BCs?
Ours must weigh close to 85 pounds. Too big to pick up on our scale
today. But when we got her I read everything on BCs and remembered
that one book said they have a real range of size and thee is no
standard, according to the AKC- I think, for a BC. But every BC I see
now, seems to be oh so petite and that is why I call ours a gigantica.
Lovable and wonderful and in a big portion.

Thanks.

aloha,
Cea

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:20:26 -0500, flitterbit >
wrote:

>Omelet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Kathleen > wrote:
>>
>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>
>
>Nope, no animal dissections of any kind for me; frogs in high school was
>bad enough. I was *not* destined to be a biologist!

I've heard that now days, they give kids an opportunity to do a
"virtual dissection" via computer. I hated the formaldehyde smell and
of course in the 8th grade science Fair, there was always the poor
frog who was splayed so we could watch how long its heart beat. Gross.

aloha,
Cea

pure kona wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:06:21 -0600, Kathleen
> > wrote:
>
>
>>pure kona wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:
>>>e photos!! We must have gigantica BC. Mollie is huge but
>>>just as sweet as your dogs look. Love BCs.
>>
>>Scully is 30 pounds, Zane is 40. When we first started playing flyball
>>almost 7 years ago Scully was one of the smallest BCs we saw. But
>>because small dogs bring lower jump heights there has been a strong bias
>>towards very petite females. These days it's not uncommon to see 25,
>>even 22 pound females.
>>
>>The need for fast height dogs was also the driving force behind the
>>first generations of purpose-bred sport crosses. The border-jack was an
>>attempt to transplant a border collie's intelligence and drive into a
>>jack russell's body.
>
>
> Kathleen, did you mean that they are breeding down the size of BCs?
> Ours must weigh close to 85 pounds. Too big to pick up on our scale
> today. But when we got her I read everything on BCs and remembered
> that one book said they have a real range of size and thee is no
> standard, according to the AKC- I think, for a BC. But every BC I see
> now, seems to be oh so petite and that is why I call ours a gigantica.
> Lovable and wonderful and in a big portion.

I make and sell protective skidboots for canine athletes. I've fitted
literally thousands of dogs in person and via e-mail. I have *never*
seen or heard of an 85 pound BC, let alone an 85 pound FEMALE BC.
That's gargantuan. In fact, if she's not tremendously obese I'd want to
see a DNA panel on her before I'd be willing to believe she's full
border collie and not a newfoundland cross.

The breed has a broad range, yes, but it runs between maybe 20 pounds
for the extremely petite female to 65 for a really huge male. Zane's
sire was 63 pounds but could have stood to drop 5. His mother was 40
pounds. Zane weighs in at 40 pounds but he's an athlete on a controlled
diet.

If in fact your dog is a pure bred, papered BC, and she actually weighs
85 pounds, I would strongly urge you to ask your vet for a candid
assessment of your dog's weight and overall fitness. Many dog owners
believe that because the vet says nothing about the dog's weight during
routine visits, that the dog is in okay shape. In point of fact, many
vets have become gun shy about mentioning weight because so many pet
owners are emotional about weight and food.

I can tell by the way you talk about your dog that you love her. The
single most important thing you can do to extend the length and quality
of her life is to keep her thin. Food is not love.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:11:34 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:

>pure kona wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:06:21 -0600, Kathleen
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>pure kona wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:
>>>>e photos!! We must have gigantica BC. Mollie is huge but
>>>>just as sweet as your dogs look. Love BCs.
>>>
>>>Scully is 30 pounds, Zane is 40. When we first started playing flyball
>>>almost 7 years ago Scully was one of the smallest BCs we saw. But
>>>because small dogs bring lower jump heights there has been a strong bias
>>>towards very petite females. These days it's not uncommon to see 25,
>>>even 22 pound females.
>>>
>>>The need for fast height dogs was also the driving force behind the
>>>first generations of purpose-bred sport crosses. The border-jack was an
>>>attempt to transplant a border collie's intelligence and drive into a
>>>jack russell's body.
>>
>>
>> Kathleen, did you mean that they are breeding down the size of BCs?
>> Ours must weigh close to 85 pounds. Too big to pick up on our scale
>> today. But when we got her I read everything on BCs and remembered
>> that one book said they have a real range of size and thee is no
>> standard, according to the AKC- I think, for a BC. But every BC I see
>> now, seems to be oh so petite and that is why I call ours a gigantica.
>> Lovable and wonderful and in a big portion.
>
>I make and sell protective skidboots for canine athletes. I've fitted
>literally thousands of dogs in person and via e-mail. I have *never*
>seen or heard of an 85 pound BC, let alone an 85 pound FEMALE BC.
>That's gargantuan. In fact, if she's not tremendously obese I'd want to
>see a DNA panel on her before I'd be willing to believe she's full
>border collie and not a newfoundland cross.
>
>The breed has a broad range, yes, but it runs between maybe 20 pounds
>for the extremely petite female to 65 for a really huge male. Zane's
>sire was 63 pounds but could have stood to drop 5. His mother was 40
>pounds. Zane weighs in at 40 pounds but he's an athlete on a controlled
>diet.
>
>If in fact your dog is a pure bred, papered BC, and she actually weighs
>85 pounds, I would strongly urge you to ask your vet for a candid
>assessment of your dog's weight and overall fitness. Many dog owners
>believe that because the vet says nothing about the dog's weight during
>routine visits, that the dog is in okay shape. In point of fact, many
>vets have become gun shy about mentioning weight because so many pet
>owners are emotional about weight and food.
>
>I can tell by the way you talk about your dog that you love her. The
>single most important thing you can do to extend the length and quality
>of her life is to keep her thin. Food is not love.

Well I don't think she really weighs 85 pounds.She's just so un
delicate. It is impossible to get her on the scale at home. Next vet
visit, I promise to let you know.

She probably weighs a wiggly 50- as my SO just found out when she
thought we had invented a new pick her up game. That was something
and he found the scale only went 30 pounds higher than his own weight
and just zoned out..

Thanks for your valuable info Kathleen.

aloha,
Cea

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:11:34 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:

>pure kona wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:06:21 -0600, Kathleen
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>pure kona wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
PS. I didn't get her as a pure bred Border Collie. She was given to
the Humane Society and we wanted her and had a farm. She seemingly has
all the right attributes, though.

Thanks.

aloha,
Cea

pure kona wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:11:34 -0600, Kathleen
> > wrote:
>
>
>>pure kona wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:06:21 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>pure kona wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:19:40 -0600, Kathleen
>
> PS. I didn't get her as a pure bred Border Collie. She was given to
> the Humane Society and we wanted her and had a farm. She seemingly has
> all the right attributes, though.

I'm glad to hear that her weight is probably overestimated. Still you
should have a heart to heart with the vet about her weight and fitness
level.

Most pet animal practices are so used to seeing fat animals that they
look normal to them. My primary vet for the past 25 years is well
accustomed to my "skinny" dogs but new partners need to be taken on a
guided tour of their physiques before realizing that what they have
their hands on is an extremely fit animal, and not malnourished.

Every time a new partner has joined my vet's practice I have had to
justify my dogs' "skinny-ness". A review of the actual standards and a
guided tour of their physiques generally leads to back pedaling on their
initial assessment. There's no way starved or malnourished dogs could
maintain their muscle mass or log their level of performance.

Favorite Newby Vet Comment (referencing Cooper, 5 yo JRT):

"Look at those thighs... they're like turkey drumsticks. And his
shoulders! Imagine what he'd look like if he wasn't neutered!"

2nd Favorite Newby Vet Comment (referencing Zane, 7 yo BC):

(While listening to his heart and respirations)
"Ohh, he's so calm."
Erm, no he's not. He hates the vet's office and especially new
personnel. His eyes are showing white all the way around and for him,
his heart is racing and he's breathing hard. But he's basically a
canine Lance Armstrong and his heart rate and respirations only climb
into housepet normal when he's freaked out.

3rd Favorite Newby Vet Comment (referencing Scully, 8 yo BC):
"Her veins are like hosepipes! I could hit them with my eyes closed!"
(Please don't)

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:22:40 -0600, Kathleen
> wrote:


>
>I'm glad to hear that her weight is probably overestimated. Still you
>should have a heart to heart with the vet about her weight and fitness
>level.
>
>Most pet animal practices are so used to seeing fat animals that they
>look normal to them. My primary vet for the past 25 years is well
>accustomed to my "skinny" dogs but new partners need to be taken on a
>guided tour of their physiques before realizing that what they have
>their hands on is an extremely fit animal, and not malnourished.
>
>Every time a new partner has joined my vet's practice I have had to
>justify my dogs' "skinny-ness". A review of the actual standards and a
>guided tour of their physiques generally leads to back pedaling on their
>initial assessment. There's no way starved or malnourished dogs could
>maintain their muscle mass or log their level of performance.
>
>Favorite Newby Vet Comment (referencing Cooper, 5 yo JRT):
>
>"Look at those thighs... they're like turkey drumsticks. And his
>shoulders! Imagine what he'd look like if he wasn't neutered!"
>
>2nd Favorite Newby Vet Comment (referencing Zane, 7 yo BC):
>
>(While listening to his heart and respirations)
>"Ohh, he's so calm."
>Erm, no he's not. He hates the vet's office and especially new
>personnel. His eyes are showing white all the way around and for him,
>his heart is racing and he's breathing hard. But he's basically a
>canine Lance Armstrong and his heart rate and respirations only climb
>into housepet normal when he's freaked out.
>
>3rd Favorite Newby Vet Comment (referencing Scully, 8 yo BC):
>"Her veins are like hosepipes! I could hit them with my eyes closed!"
>(Please don't)

Oh lord. FYI I respect my vet- the only one there for the last 20
years. But guffaw to the newbies you've mentioned.

aloha,
cea

In article >,
Kathleen > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Kathleen > wrote:
>
> >
> >>The third Thursday of the month a local clinic hosts a Feral Sterile and
> >>does assembly line spay and neuters on strays and low income pets.
> >>Biology teachers can request specimens from pregnant spays for use in
> >>the classroom.
> >
> >
> > I've seen the bodies of adult cats in the comparative anatomy classes
> > when I was in college.
> >
> > I could NEVER dissect a cat. I just could not do that. :-(
> >
> > Baby pigs maybe...
>
> When I was in college I worked as a glassware washer over at the school
> of pharmacology. I traded assignments with a co-worker to get out of
> going anywhere near the dog labs. The gal who traded with me was from
> Kuwait, had never had a dog and to her they were just dirty animals so
> it didn't bother her.

:-(

I can't even stand visiting the local shelter unless I am there to adopt.
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

In article > ,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> > Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a neighborhood
> > stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over her and the front
> > porch! It was a royal mess.
>
> Our Bouvier came into heat shortly after we moved to this house. I had
> built a kennel for her and she spent most of the day in the kennel while
> she was in heat. We discovered that there were a lot of male dogs
> roaming around, and they spent a lot of their time hanging around our
> house. I didn't know whose dogs they were, but knowing what a male dogs
> can be like around a bitch in heat I used to take a shotgun with me when
> I took her back and forth to the kennel. Luckily I never had to use it
> and she was spayed shortly after that first heat.
>
> Friends on mine had a runted female Great Dane. She was normally a very
> well behaved dog, but she was a slut. Every time she was in heat she
> managed to sneak out of the house and have a tryst that ended up with a
> litter of big puppies. They didn't want to have her spayed but ended up
> doing it.

IMHO unless you are an actual breeder, it's irresponsible not to
spay/neuter. The cost of the surgery will more than be made up for if
you have to raise a litter.
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

Omelet wrote:
> In article > ,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>
>>Omelet wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a neighborhood
>>>stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over her and the front
>>>porch! It was a royal mess.
>>
>>Our Bouvier came into heat shortly after we moved to this house. I had
>>built a kennel for her and she spent most of the day in the kennel while
>>she was in heat. We discovered that there were a lot of male dogs
>>roaming around, and they spent a lot of their time hanging around our
>>house. I didn't know whose dogs they were, but knowing what a male dogs
>>can be like around a bitch in heat I used to take a shotgun with me when
>>I took her back and forth to the kennel. Luckily I never had to use it
>>and she was spayed shortly after that first heat.
>>
>>Friends on mine had a runted female Great Dane. She was normally a very
>>well behaved dog, but she was a slut. Every time she was in heat she
>>managed to sneak out of the house and have a tryst that ended up with a
>>litter of big puppies. They didn't want to have her spayed but ended up
>>doing it.
>
>
> IMHO unless you are an actual breeder, it's irresponsible not to
> spay/neuter. The cost of the surgery will more than be made up for if
> you have to raise a litter.

We left Scully intact until she was 2 1/2, pending OFA and eye exam
results. She passed both with flying colors. She was beautiful,
gorgeous, healthy, excellent temperament and could do everything a BC
was supposed to be able to do. The breeder who'd produced her promised
a stud that was a match for her in every way, had a waiting list of
buyers for prospective puppies.

And I couldn't. Not with healthy border collie adults and puppies
waiting for homes. Not knowing that if the goal was more dogs just like
her, that her sire and dam were still intact and of breeding age. Not
knowing that if I bred her that I was exposing her to the risks of
pregnancy and delivery; that I might be burning her candle at both ends.

And so we had her spayed. I love the idea of being able to have a
daughter of hers to raise and train. But it wouldn't be Scully. There
will never be another like her.

But when I look at the sea of orca colored dogs at any given tournament
I see all of the border collies I've known and loved, there in the
spectrum of the breed. Duffy's ears, Connor's build, Rocky's eyes,
Molly's way of moving, Bonnie's markings and coat, Tessy's shy gaze.

A friend from another team comes to our crating area at every tournament
to pet Zane, because when he lays his ears back he looks just like her
boy Cruiser who passed three years ago, and she holds my hand and looks
at the thin white scar across the back of it. I got it playing ball
with Cruiser at Springfield in April of 2002. He didn't bite me, I
basically stuck my hand in his mouth and scratched myself on his fang.
Cruiser left a mark on my hand. The others left marks on my soul.

That's the advantage of owning and loving a pure bred dog. Like any
other dog, pure bred or mutt, each one is unique. But with a pure bred
dog, a border collie, you can look out across the breed and see all of
the traits that made your dog what he or she was, carried forward in
various combinations. And that's somehow comforting.

Omelet wrote:
>> Friends on mine had a runted female Great Dane. She was normally a very
>> well behaved dog, but she was a slut. Every time she was in heat she
>> managed to sneak out of the house and have a tryst that ended up with a
>> litter of big puppies. They didn't want to have her spayed but ended up
>> doing it.
>
> IMHO unless you are an actual breeder, it's irresponsible not to
> spay/neuter. The cost of the surgery will more than be made up for if
> you have to raise a litter.

I was planning to breed my Bouvier. She was champion stock.
Unfortunately, she had some skin problems that the vet we were using at
the time diagnosed as a hormone problem and recommended spaying. The
*******. The problem continued. A more competent vet determined that it
was a flew allergy.

Kathleen wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
>> In article > ,
>> Dave Smith > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Last time I had a dog come into heat prior to spaying, a
>>>> neighborhood stray dug into the yard, bred Misty, peed all over
>>>> her and the front porch! It was a royal mess.
>>>
>>> Our Bouvier came into heat shortly after we moved to this house. I
>>> had built a kennel for her and she spent most of the day in the
>>> kennel while she was in heat. We discovered that there were a lot
>>> of male dogs roaming around, and they spent a lot of their time
>>> hanging around our house. I didn't know whose dogs they were, but
>>> knowing what a male dogs can be like around a bitch in heat I used
>>> to take a shotgun with me when I took her back and forth to the
>>> kennel. Luckily I never had to use it and she was spayed shortly
>>> after that first heat. Friends on mine had a runted female Great Dane.
>>> She was normally a
>>> very well behaved dog, but she was a slut. Every time she was in
>>> heat she managed to sneak out of the house and have a tryst that
>>> ended up with a litter of big puppies. They didn't want to have her
>>> spayed but ended up doing it.
>>
>>
>> IMHO unless you are an actual breeder, it's irresponsible not to
>> spay/neuter. The cost of the surgery will more than be made up for
>> if you have to raise a litter.
>
> We left Scully intact until she was 2 1/2, pending OFA and eye exam
> results. She passed both with flying colors. She was beautiful,
> gorgeous, healthy, excellent temperament and could do everything a BC
> was supposed to be able to do. The breeder who'd produced her
> promised a stud that was a match for her in every way, had a waiting
> list of buyers for prospective puppies.
>
> And I couldn't. Not with healthy border collie adults and puppies
> waiting for homes. Not knowing that if the goal was more dogs just
> like her, that her sire and dam were still intact and of breeding
> age. Not knowing that if I bred her that I was exposing her to the
> risks of pregnancy and delivery; that I might be burning her candle
> at both ends.
> And so we had her spayed. I love the idea of being able to have a
> daughter of hers to raise and train. But it wouldn't be Scully. There
> will never be another like her.
>
> But when I look at the sea of orca colored dogs at any given
> tournament I see all of the border collies I've known and loved,
> there in the spectrum of the breed. Duffy's ears, Connor's build,
> Rocky's eyes, Molly's way of moving, Bonnie's markings and coat,
> Tessy's shy gaze.
> A friend from another team comes to our crating area at every
> tournament to pet Zane, because when he lays his ears back he looks
> just like her boy Cruiser who passed three years ago, and she holds
> my hand and looks at the thin white scar across the back of it. I
> got it playing ball with Cruiser at Springfield in April of 2002. He
> didn't bite me, I basically stuck my hand in his mouth and scratched
> myself on his fang. Cruiser left a mark on my hand. The others left
> marks on my soul.
> That's the advantage of owning and loving a pure bred dog. Like any
> other dog, pure bred or mutt, each one is unique. But with a pure
> bred dog, a border collie, you can look out across the breed and see
> all of the traits that made your dog what he or she was, carried
> forward in various combinations. And that's somehow comforting.

Lovely post Kathleen.

"Ophelia" > wrote
>> forward in various combinations. And that's somehow comforting.
>
> Lovely post Kathleen.

Animal lovers are the best people in the world.

cybercat wrote:
> "Ophelia" > wrote
>>> forward in various combinations. And that's somehow comforting.
>>
>> Lovely post Kathleen.
>
> Animal lovers are the best people in the world.

They are! Something I notice in the supermarkets. It is the people with
bags of dog bics or similar that are the nicest and will always smile and
give way

pure kona wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:20:26 -0500, flitterbit >
> wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Kathleen > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>
>> Nope, no animal dissections of any kind for me; frogs in high school was
>> bad enough. I was *not* destined to be a biologist!
>
> I've heard that now days, they give kids an opportunity to do a
> "virtual dissection" via computer. I hated the formaldehyde smell and
> of course in the 8th grade science Fair, there was always the poor
> frog who was splayed so we could watch how long its heart beat. Gross.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
>
>
Even with that, I still couldn't do it; an awful lot of lab work still
involves doing various less-than-pleasant things to animals, then
killing them to study the effects of the things that were done.

flitterbit said...

> pure kona wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:20:26 -0500, flitterbit >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>> Kathleen > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>>
>>> Nope, no animal dissections of any kind for me; frogs in high school
was
>>> bad enough. I was *not* destined to be a biologist!
>>
>> I've heard that now days, they give kids an opportunity to do a
>> "virtual dissection" via computer. I hated the formaldehyde smell and
>> of course in the 8th grade science Fair, there was always the poor
>> frog who was splayed so we could watch how long its heart beat. Gross.
>>
>> aloha,
>> Cea
> >
> >
> Even with that, I still couldn't do it; an awful lot of lab work still
> involves doing various less-than-pleasant things to animals, then
> killing them to study the effects of the things that were done.


Back on topic: http://i16.tinypic.com/6gec5ti.jpg ??

Andy

In article >, Andy > wrote:

> Back on topic: http://i16.tinypic.com/6gec5ti.jpg ??
>
> Andy

Did you make those? :-)
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

Omelet said...

> In article >, Andy > wrote:
>
>> Back on topic: http://i16.tinypic.com/6gec5ti.jpg ??
>>
>> Andy
>
> Did you make those? :-)


No ma'am! I cannot tell a lie! My Evil Twin did!!!

Andy

In article >, Andy > wrote:

> Omelet said...
>
> > In article >, Andy > wrote:
> >
> >> Back on topic: http://i16.tinypic.com/6gec5ti.jpg ??
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
> > Did you make those? :-)
>
>
> No ma'am! I cannot tell a lie! My Evil Twin did!!!
>
> Andy

Right. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

Omelet said...

> In article >, Andy > wrote:
>
>> Omelet said...
>>
>> > In article >, Andy > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Back on topic: http://i16.tinypic.com/6gec5ti.jpg ??
>> >>
>> >> Andy
>> >
>> > Did you make those? :-)
>>
>>
>> No ma'am! I cannot tell a lie! My Evil Twin did!!!
>>
>> Andy
>
> Right. ;-)


OK, so, that's me on the right but HE started it!!!

"Did not!"

"Did so!"

"Ya BUM!"

"Ya Evil BUM Twin o' mine."

"Well Mom always liked me better!!! :P"

"Did not!"

"Did so!"

"Prove it!"

"Don't wanna!"

"You can't!"

"Can so!"

....