"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Susan > wrote:
>
>>Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> I would say this is not a brine, it is a marinade. There is not
>>> enough salt in it to be a brine, plus there is vinegar -- brines
>>> are not acidic.
>
>>> Spices are optional in a brine and sugar is not normally included.
>>> These ingredients are more typical in marinades.
>
>>> A basic brine is water and salt in a 12:1 ratio by volume.
>>> I've seen recipes calling for 8:1 but I have not found that
>>> level of salt necessary. I've seen 16:1 used in a recipe from Acme
>>> chop house, San Francisco. The above recipe is about 21:1.
>>> I would say the salt concentation is too low for brining action.
>
>>A lot of basic brining recipes also call for sugar, though I've never
>>seen one with vinegar in it before, and I would never add it.
>
> I see sugar routinely in brines for fish, not so much for
> meat or fowl in my experience. YMMV.
>
> Steve

Sugar, brown sugar, and some sort of fruit juice is very common in brines.

IMHO the sugar helps balance out the saltiness.


Dimitri

"Chemiker" > wrote in message
...
> Wife was shopping at our fave package store and
> ran into a fellow who was a chef, trained in Europe.
> She mentioned how she enjoyed certain meat
> dishes (in Europe) and he told her it was prob.
> because they brined the meat first, and later
> reincorporated some of the brine into the sauces.
>
> He also said that brining is not as well known
> here in the US, but I know some BBQ-types
> use it.
>
> ANybody have any experience on brining
> meats before cooking?
>
> Chemiker, who's never used it.

I had a problem cooking wild quail. They were too dry. But with brining,
they come out soooooooo tender. It works on a lot of meats, and you will
notice the difference immediately. The thing that surprised me was the lack
of a salty taste.

Steve

"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> Omelet said...
>
>> Is all that extra salt really necessary?
>> I have to keep to a low sodium diet.
>
>

Me, too, but a lot of the salt is drained and rinsed off.

Steve (cardio patient)

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Andy > wrote:
>
>> I was wondering that myself for ages (high blood pressure
>> being what it is) and now wonder if potassium chloride (Morton
>> salt substitute) might make a difference, but for better or
>> worse? I dunno... sodium and potassium chlorides being two
>> different compounds.
>
> Possibly, but only if you're a sodium-sensitive hypertensive.
> Only a third or less of individuals with hypertension are.
>
> The way to find out, which you may not want to pursue, is
> to establish a baseline for you B.P. without any meds,
> then eat a very low sodium diet (< 100 mg/day) for at least
> three weeks, then re-test your B.P. To be meaningful you
> will have to measure it for several days.
>
> Since undergoing this investigation involves dropping your
> meds for awhile it is very unadvised if that would be
> a dangerous thing to do.
>
> I'd also be cautious about eating too much potassium.
>
> Steve

I'm MOST cautious about people who offer medical advice in Usenet
newsgroups. I ask my doctors.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>
>>> Brining is used to help tenderize a tough, but flavorful
>>> piece of meat. It's not a flavoring technique, at least
>>> in its basic form.
>
>>I've never heard that. It does add moisture through osmosis and adding
>>moisture may make what would otherwise have been a dried out chicken
>>breast
>>or pork chop seem more tender. I've brined many a corned beef and until
>>properly cooked like any other brisket, it is still tough.
>
> Okay, thanks for this datapoint. So your thinking is it
> will make like a pork chop seem more tender, because it
> makes it moister, but it doesn't really tenderize the connective
> tissue in any real way?
>
> I'll believe this however the results can be pretty good,
> in terms of faux-tenderizing.
>
> Steve

Correct. Those meats are easily overcooked and dried to be tough. The
added moisture prevents it. Connective tissue can probably be broken down
if you add some pineapple juice or similar to the brine but I've never tried
it.

SteveB > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message

>> Possibly, but only if you're a sodium-sensitive hypertensive.
>> Only a third or less of individuals with hypertension are.

>> The way to find out, which you may not want to pursue, is
>> to establish a baseline for you B.P. without any meds,
>> then eat a very low sodium diet (< 100 mg/day) for at least
>> three weeks, then re-test your B.P. To be meaningful you
>> will have to measure it for several days.

>> Since undergoing this investigation involves dropping your
>> meds for awhile it is very unadvised if that would be
>> a dangerous thing to do.

>> I'd also be cautious about eating too much potassium.

>I'm MOST cautious about people who offer medical advice in Usenet
>newsgroups. I ask my doctors.

Understood, but of the people in the U.S. taking medicine
for hypertension, I wonder for what fraction of them their
doctors had them check for sodium sensitivity first, in
any sort of rigorous way. I bet it's less than one-third.
Maybe one-tenth.

Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> SteveB > wrote:
>
>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
>
>>> Possibly, but only if you're a sodium-sensitive hypertensive.
>>> Only a third or less of individuals with hypertension are.
>
>>> The way to find out, which you may not want to pursue, is
>>> to establish a baseline for you B.P. without any meds,
>>> then eat a very low sodium diet (< 100 mg/day) for at least
>>> three weeks, then re-test your B.P. To be meaningful you
>>> will have to measure it for several days.
>
>>> Since undergoing this investigation involves dropping your
>>> meds for awhile it is very unadvised if that would be
>>> a dangerous thing to do.
>
>>> I'd also be cautious about eating too much potassium.
>
>>I'm MOST cautious about people who offer medical advice in Usenet
>>newsgroups. I ask my doctors.
>
> Understood, but of the people in the U.S. taking medicine
> for hypertension, I wonder for what fraction of them their
> doctors had them check for sodium sensitivity first, in
> any sort of rigorous way. I bet it's less than one-third.
> Maybe one-tenth.
>
> Steve

Two words I HATE! "Should" and "maybe". What medical school did you
graduate from?

Steve

Susan > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> Understood, but of the people in the U.S. taking medicine
>> for hypertension, I wonder for what fraction of them their
>> doctors had them check for sodium sensitivity first, in
>> any sort of rigorous way. I bet it's less than one-third.
>> Maybe one-tenth.

>I've never heard of any doctor testing it. Mineral balance is maintained
>by adrenal hormones, and hypertension is most often a
>metabolic/endocrine problem.

>Everyone seems to be getting pills for every ill, without evaluation of
>underlying mechanisms. That's what was being thrust upon me for years,
>but I refused, and researched my own symptoms and found that low carbing
>and potassium (first from lite salt, then rx K Dur) lowered my bp to
>very low normal, it's been years now.

Good. My doctor is one of the few (apparently) who had
me check myself for sodium sensitivity, using the procedure
I described earlier, before putting me on BP meds.

Steve

SteveB > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message

>> SteveB > wrote:

>>>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message

>>>> Possibly, but only if you're a sodium-sensitive hypertensive.
>>>> Only a third or less of individuals with hypertension are.
>>
>>>> The way to find out, which you may not want to pursue, is
>>>> to establish a baseline for you B.P. without any meds,
>>>> then eat a very low sodium diet (< 100 mg/day) for at least
>>>> three weeks, then re-test your B.P. To be meaningful you
>>>> will have to measure it for several days.
>>
>>>> Since undergoing this investigation involves dropping your
>>>> meds for awhile it is very unadvised if that would be
>>>> a dangerous thing to do.
>>
>>>> I'd also be cautious about eating too much potassium.

>>>I'm MOST cautious about people who offer medical advice in Usenet
>>>newsgroups. I ask my doctors.

>> Understood, but of the people in the U.S. taking medicine
>> for hypertension, I wonder for what fraction of them their
>> doctors had them check for sodium sensitivity first, in
>> any sort of rigorous way. I bet it's less than one-third.
>> Maybe one-tenth.

>> Steve
>
>Two words I HATE! "Should" and "maybe".

I did not say "should".

One thing I hate, false attributions.

> What medical school did you graduate from?

Since when is describing a medical procedure wrong?

I don't believe members of the public do themselves any good
by keep themselves in the dark.

Steve

In article >, wrote:

> Omelet > wrote:
>
> > Question: What is brine but a very salty marinade? :-)
> > Is all that extra salt really necessary?
>
> Yes it is necessary to some extent. Look up "osmotic pressure."
> If the solution does not have a high enough salt content it
> won't push through the cell walls to really get into the meat.
> Too low a salt content and it's just marinade. Some marinades
> use acids to break down cell structure somewhat. A true brine
> uses osmosis.
>
> > I have to keep to a low sodium diet.
>
> Brining may not be for you.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.

So I gathered. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Omelet > wrote:
>
> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> >> >Seems to work better I think in keeping them juicy as it cooks top and
> >> >bottom at the same time. I never get a tough chop out of that thing.
>
> >> That is a superior way to cook a chop/steak. I have to flip
> >> mine in my toaster-broiler.
> >>
> >> (Hmm, I've never tried it on "toast" setting for this purpose.
> >> Maybe that would work.
>
> >Please report? :-)
>
> Heh. Unlikely for two reasons. One is the spacing between
> the top and bottom elements is, I think, too great. The other
> is that for this to work, I would not have anything under
> the steak/chop in question and it would drip and get the
> toaster oven somewhat other than clean. My cohabitating
> partner does not like it when I mess up the toaster oven.
>
> Steve

So use folded foil pans. That's what I did when I was a senior in
college and did a LOT of toaster oven cooking.
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

In article >,
"SteveB" > wrote:

> "Andy" > wrote in message ...
> > Omelet said...
> >
> >> Is all that extra salt really necessary?
> >> I have to keep to a low sodium diet.
> >
> >
>
> Me, too, but a lot of the salt is drained and rinsed off.
>
> Steve (cardio patient)

Ok, I like the suggestion for quail.
Should work with adult sky rats too.
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

In article >,
"SteveB" > wrote:

> "Steve Pope" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Andy > wrote:
> >
> >> I was wondering that myself for ages (high blood pressure
> >> being what it is) and now wonder if potassium chloride (Morton
> >> salt substitute) might make a difference, but for better or
> >> worse? I dunno... sodium and potassium chlorides being two
> >> different compounds.
> >
> > Possibly, but only if you're a sodium-sensitive hypertensive.
> > Only a third or less of individuals with hypertension are.
> >
> > The way to find out, which you may not want to pursue, is
> > to establish a baseline for you B.P. without any meds,
> > then eat a very low sodium diet (< 100 mg/day) for at least
> > three weeks, then re-test your B.P. To be meaningful you
> > will have to measure it for several days.
> >
> > Since undergoing this investigation involves dropping your
> > meds for awhile it is very unadvised if that would be
> > a dangerous thing to do.
> >
> > I'd also be cautious about eating too much potassium.
> >
> > Steve
>
> I'm MOST cautious about people who offer medical advice in Usenet
> newsgroups. I ask my doctors.
>
> Steve

In this case, he is right. My own Endocrinologist (MD) warns against
over use of potassium chloride.

So does my pharmacist.
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous

On Jan 14, 1:34*pm, Andy > wrote:
> Omelet said...
>
> > Is all that extra salt really necessary?
> > I have to keep to a low sodium diet.
>
> Om,
>
> I was wondering that myself for ages (high blood pressure being what it is)
> and now wonder if potassium chloride (Morton salt substitute) might make a
> difference, but for better or worse? I dunno... sodium and potassium
> chlorides being two different compounds.

I always thought that potassium chloride was the salt used on icy
roads. One uses it in cooking too!

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

Omelet > wrote:

> (Steve Pope) wrote:

>> Heh. Unlikely for two reasons. One is the spacing between
>> the top and bottom elements is, I think, too great. The other
>> is that for this to work, I would not have anything under
>> the steak/chop in question and it would drip and get the
>> toaster oven somewhat other than clean. My cohabitating
>> partner does not like it when I mess up the toaster oven.

>So use folded foil pans. That's what I did when I was a senior in
>college and did a LOT of toaster oven cooking.

Yes, I could devise a system that had such a foil item in
the space between the bottom toaster oven elements. That
would definitely help keep from making too much of a mess.
Whether it would pass local protocol, I am uncertain. ;-)

Steve