Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food

By ARIEL DAVID

Associated Press

ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking duck
you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has just
barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic medieval
center.

Officials say new rules passed last week by Lucca's conservative
administration aim to protect local specialties from the rising
popularity of "different" cuisines. The measure also bans fast food
restaurants and hopes to reduce littering within the city's ancient
walls, a magnet for tourists.

"By ethnic cuisine we mean a different cuisine," city spokesman Massimo
Di Grazia said Thursday. "That means no new kebabs, Thai or Lebanese
restaurants."

Di Grazia said ethnic restaurants opened before the measure was passed
could stay in business.

The move has sparked accusations of gastronomic racism from opposition
politicians and criticism from Italian chefs, who say modern cuisine
relies on fusion, the combination of ingredients used in different food
traditions.

"It's a discriminatory ban," center-left councilman Alessandro
Tambellini told the Corriere della Sera daily. "It's a sign of closure
toward different cultures."

"There is no dish on the face of the Earth that doesn't come from mixing
techniques, products and tastes from cultures that have met and mingled
over time," said Vittorio Castellani, a TV chef and cookbook author.

Castellani told Corriere the ban was also a blow to immigrant
communities, whose members often make a living by selling ethnic food.

Downtown Lucca, 40 miles (70 kilometers) west of Florence, is a popular
destination for thousands of visitors, who roam its intact walls,
medieval churches and Renaissance palaces.

Di Grazia, noting that other nearby towns had passed similar rules, told
The Associated Press the measure was not discriminatory. He said it
aimed to improve the city's image and protect Tuscan products, like wine
and oil, as well as Lucca's cuisine, rich in soups, meat and pasta
dishes.

It remained unclear how "different" a restaurant's menu would have to be
to fall under the culinary ban.

Di Grazia said a French restaurant would be allowed to open, but he was
not sure about a restaurant offering Sicilian dishes, which often
include Middle Eastern ingredients.

AP Writer Valerio Penna contributed to this report.

Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:

> By ARIEL DAVID

> Associated Press

> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
> opening in its historic medieval center.

It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's
never worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe
genuine medieval food....Good Luck!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jan 29, 5:03*pm, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> *Victor *wrote *on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * By ARIEL DAVID
> > * * * * * * * * * * * *Associated Press
> > ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
> > Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
> > Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
> > opening in its historic medieval center.
>
> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's
> never worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe
> genuine medieval food....Good Luck!
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

I would have to agree with Lucca. After being cramped in a plane for
hours to get to Europe, I was very disappointed to be greeted by McD,
KFC, and Starbucks.

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:


> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking duck
> you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has just
> barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic medieval
> center.

> "By ethnic cuisine we mean a different cuisine," city spokesman Massimo
> Di Grazia said Thursday. "That means no new kebabs, Thai or Lebanese
> restaurants."

I think it's kind of funny. Before trade between the old world and the
new world, there were no peppers, tomatoes or potatoes in the old world.
Should those ingredients be banned from this area?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Victor Sack wrote:

> Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food
>
> By ARIEL DAVID
>
> Associated Press
>
> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking
> duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has
> just barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic
> medieval center.
>
> Officials say new rules passed last week by Lucca's conservative
> administration aim to protect local specialties from the rising
> popularity of "different" cuisines. The measure also bans fast food
> restaurants and hopes to reduce littering within the city's ancient
> walls, a magnet for tourists.
>
> "By ethnic cuisine we mean a different cuisine," city spokesman
> Massimo Di Grazia said Thursday. "That means no new kebabs, Thai or
> Lebanese restaurants."
>
> Di Grazia said ethnic restaurants opened before the measure was passed
> could stay in business.
>
> The move has sparked accusations of gastronomic racism from opposition
> politicians and criticism from Italian chefs, who say modern cuisine
> relies on fusion, the combination of ingredients used in different
> food traditions.
>
> "It's a discriminatory ban," center-left councilman Alessandro
> Tambellini told the Corriere della Sera daily. "It's a sign of closure
> toward different cultures."
>
> "There is no dish on the face of the Earth that doesn't come from
> mixing techniques, products and tastes from cultures that have met
> and mingled over time," said Vittorio Castellani, a TV chef and
> cookbook author.
>
> Castellani told Corriere the ban was also a blow to immigrant
> communities, whose members often make a living by selling ethnic food.
>
> Downtown Lucca, 40 miles (70 kilometers) west of Florence, is a
> popular destination for thousands of visitors, who roam its intact
> walls, medieval churches and Renaissance palaces.
>
> Di Grazia, noting that other nearby towns had passed similar rules,
> told The Associated Press the measure was not discriminatory. He said
> it aimed to improve the city's image and protect Tuscan products,
> like wine and oil, as well as Lucca's cuisine, rich in soups, meat
> and pasta dishes.
>
> It remained unclear how "different" a restaurant's menu would have to
> be to fall under the culinary ban.
>
> Di Grazia said a French restaurant would be allowed to open, but he
> was not sure about a restaurant offering Sicilian dishes, which often
> include Middle Eastern ingredients.
>
> AP Writer Valerio Penna contributed to this report.

So, of course, they're going to ban new restaurants which offer such
foreign innovations as tomatoes and peppers.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
Mirror Journal http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
Mirror 2 http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

"Dan Goodman" > wrote in message
ouse.com...
> Victor Sack wrote:
>
>> Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food
>>
>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>
>> Associated Press
>>
>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking
>> duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has
>> just barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic
>> medieval center.
>>
>> Officials say new rules passed last week by Lucca's conservative
>> administration aim to protect local specialties from the rising
>> popularity of "different" cuisines. The measure also bans fast food
>> restaurants and hopes to reduce littering within the city's ancient
>> walls, a magnet for tourists.
>>
>> "By ethnic cuisine we mean a different cuisine," city spokesman
>> Massimo Di Grazia said Thursday. "That means no new kebabs, Thai or
>> Lebanese restaurants."
>>
>> Di Grazia said ethnic restaurants opened before the measure was passed
>> could stay in business.
>>
>> The move has sparked accusations of gastronomic racism from opposition
>> politicians and criticism from Italian chefs, who say modern cuisine
>> relies on fusion, the combination of ingredients used in different
>> food traditions.
>>
>> "It's a discriminatory ban," center-left councilman Alessandro
>> Tambellini told the Corriere della Sera daily. "It's a sign of closure
>> toward different cultures."
>>
>> "There is no dish on the face of the Earth that doesn't come from
>> mixing techniques, products and tastes from cultures that have met
>> and mingled over time," said Vittorio Castellani, a TV chef and
>> cookbook author.
>>
>> Castellani told Corriere the ban was also a blow to immigrant
>> communities, whose members often make a living by selling ethnic food.
>>
>> Downtown Lucca, 40 miles (70 kilometers) west of Florence, is a
>> popular destination for thousands of visitors, who roam its intact
>> walls, medieval churches and Renaissance palaces.
>>
>> Di Grazia, noting that other nearby towns had passed similar rules,
>> told The Associated Press the measure was not discriminatory. He said
>> it aimed to improve the city's image and protect Tuscan products,
>> like wine and oil, as well as Lucca's cuisine, rich in soups, meat
>> and pasta dishes.
>>
>> It remained unclear how "different" a restaurant's menu would have to
>> be to fall under the culinary ban.
>>
>> Di Grazia said a French restaurant would be allowed to open, but he
>> was not sure about a restaurant offering Sicilian dishes, which often
>> include Middle Eastern ingredients.
>>
>> AP Writer Valerio Penna contributed to this report.
>
> So, of course, they're going to ban new restaurants which offer such
> foreign innovations as tomatoes and peppers.
>

I've been to Lucca. Good for them.

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>
>> By ARIEL DAVID
>
>> Associated Press
>
>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>
> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's never
> worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe genuine
> medieval food....Good Luck!
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland

Having spent some time in Lucca, I say "good for them". The center if town
is very historic and it ruins the atmosphere to have some aspects of
commercialism. There is plenty of space outside the wall that can
accommodate other types of restaurants. Tourists go to places such as Lucca
for the history and just walking amongst the buildings takes you back
hundreds of years in your mind. Sorry, but the all you can eat Chinese
buffet is like painting a couple of Andy Warhol replicas in the Sistine
Chapel so as to update it.

You can sit at an outdoor table with your espresso or gelato and Boccherrini
and Puccini's music fills your mind. It should not be spoiled.

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food
>
> By ARIEL DAVID

>
> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking duck
> you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has just
> barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic medieval
> center.
(snip)
> Di Grazia said a French restaurant would be allowed to open, but he was
> not sure about a restaurant offering Sicilian dishes, which often
> include Middle Eastern ingredients.
>
> AP Writer Valerio Penna contributed to this report.

Thanks, Bubba Wictor; that was an interesting read. We were in Lucca a
year and a bit ago. I don't believe we had a meal there, though; just
visited another blinkin' church.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
http://gallery.me.com/barbschaller/100041
-- a woman my age shouldn't
have this much fun!

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> Thanks, Bubba Wictor; that was an interesting read. We were in Lucca a
> year and a bit ago. I don't believe we had a meal there, though; just
> visited another blinkin' church.

You did have a meal there... I remember posting a comment:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/1ddff7fcbd3016dc>.

I wish I were in Lucca now... it was there, back in the early '80s or
so, that I first tasted capretto (kid, skewered, I think) at the famous
Buca di Sant'Antonio, which is still there, it seems. Sometimes I am
surprised at the clarity of my own remembrance of foods past - I still
distinctly recollect that the meat was a bit overcooked and rather
fatty, yet I liked it well enough, probably just because it was
capretto! In Lucca! Ah!

Bubba Wictor

"Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food
>
> By ARIEL DAVID
>
> Associated Press
>
> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking duck
> you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has just
> barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic medieval
> center.
>
> Officials say new rules passed last week by Lucca's conservative
> administration aim to protect local specialties from the rising
> popularity of "different" cuisines. The measure also bans fast food
> restaurants and hopes to reduce littering within the city's ancient
> walls, a magnet for tourists.

[CUT]
This is a very interesting article. Sometimes Ethic restaurant exceded the
local one and this is not a nice publicity for the promotion of the local
product, expecially in countries which live on turism.
A little comment: have you ever seen a lot of foreign restaurant in an
arabic country?
cheers
Pandora

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:16:09 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
shouted from the highest rooftop:

>
>"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
>> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>>
>>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>
>>> Associated Press
>>
>>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>>
>> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's never
>> worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe genuine
>> medieval food....Good Luck!
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>
>Having spent some time in Lucca, I say "good for them". The center if town
>is very historic and it ruins the atmosphere to have some aspects of
>commercialism. There is plenty of space outside the wall that can
>accommodate other types of restaurants. Tourists go to places such as Lucca
>for the history and just walking amongst the buildings takes you back
>hundreds of years in your mind. Sorry, but the all you can eat Chinese
>buffet is like painting a couple of Andy Warhol replicas in the Sistine
>Chapel so as to update it.
>
>You can sit at an outdoor table with your espresso or gelato and Boccherrini
>and Puccini's music fills your mind. It should not be spoiled.

Agreed! If a community decides to protect the character and amenities
that makes it special, then more power to it. I find the idea that
everything has to be homogenised down to the lowest common denominator
abhorrent.



--

una cerveza mas por favor ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

Pandora wrote:

> A little comment: have you ever seen a lot of foreign restaurant in an
> arabic country?

Sure. I've seen McDonald's in every country I've ever visited, including
Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Burger King is
almost as ubiquitous. Dubai has some world-class French restaurants. Some of
the best Indian food I've had was in Indian restaurants in Kuwait. Kuwait
also had a Chili's, a TGI Fridays, and a Johnny Rockets (all of which are
American chain restaurants) which were popular with the locals.

Bob

"Dan Goodman" > wrote in message

> Victor Sack wrote:

>> Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food

>> Associated Press

> So, of course, they're going to ban new restaurants which offer such
> foreign innovations as tomatoes and peppers.

(Or ice cream, or pasta...)

This might backfire on them, because the Arabs, Turks,
eastern Europeans, and South Asians will now open Italian
restaurants in Lucca and the locals may soon be out of
business.

Steve

"Bob Terwilliger" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Pandora wrote:
>
>> A little comment: have you ever seen a lot of foreign restaurant in an
>> arabic country?
>
> Sure. I've seen McDonald's in every country I've ever visited, including
> Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Burger King
> is almost as ubiquitous. Dubai has some world-class French restaurants.
> Some of the best Indian food I've had was in Indian restaurants in Kuwait.
> Kuwait also had a Chili's, a TGI Fridays, and a Johnny Rockets (all of
> which are American chain restaurants) which were popular with the locals.
>
> Bob
Well, if you speak of Mac Donald's it's obvious (because there are money
interests below). I was speaking of little ethnic restaurant in little
arabic country. I don't think you find many. And Lucca is a little city in
Italy. Rome is different.

--
Cheers
Pandora

"Victor Sack" ha scritto nel messaggio
> Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food
By ARIEL DAVID
> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking duck>
> you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has just>
> barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic medieval
> center.

Lucca is one of the cities very apt to fall over into preciousness at any
moment. OTH, the centro storico is not very big and you can still have
foreign restaurants outside the walls. It might be as much as a 5 min walk
but doesn't seem excessive and at least one could park.
I find, however, that ethnic food in Italy is almost always italianized to a
point that makes it useless to jones for Chinese or Indian. I hear it may
be different in big international cities like Torino and Milano, but so far
I have never had ethnic food here that was comparable to the same thing in
London or NY, let alone the original setting. Too bad, really.

So...You would agree with banning anything other than American style
(whatever that is....) from such places as the tourist areas of Annapolis,
MD, or Mystic, CT? Just curious>


"bob" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:16:09 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>
>>
>>"James Silverton" > wrote in message
.. .
>>> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>>>
>>>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>>
>>>> Associated Press
>>>
>>>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>>>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>>>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>>>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>>>
>>> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's
>>> never
>>> worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe genuine
>>> medieval food....Good Luck!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> James Silverton
>>> Potomac, Maryland
>>
>>Having spent some time in Lucca, I say "good for them". The center if
>>town
>>is very historic and it ruins the atmosphere to have some aspects of
>>commercialism. There is plenty of space outside the wall that can
>>accommodate other types of restaurants. Tourists go to places such as
>>Lucca
>>for the history and just walking amongst the buildings takes you back
>>hundreds of years in your mind. Sorry, but the all you can eat Chinese
>>buffet is like painting a couple of Andy Warhol replicas in the Sistine
>>Chapel so as to update it.
>>
>>You can sit at an outdoor table with your espresso or gelato and
>>Boccherrini
>>and Puccini's music fills your mind. It should not be spoiled.
>
> Agreed! If a community decides to protect the character and amenities
> that makes it special, then more power to it. I find the idea that
> everything has to be homogenised down to the lowest common denominator
> abhorrent.
>
>
>
> --
>
> una cerveza mas por favor ...
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
> Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>>
>>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>
>>> Associated Press
>>
>>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>>
>> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's
>> never worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe
>> genuine medieval food....Good Luck!
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Having spent some time in Lucca, I say "good for them". The center if
> town is very historic and it ruins the atmosphere to have some aspects of
> commercialism. There is plenty of space outside the wall that can
> accommodate other types of restaurants. Tourists go to places such as
> Lucca for the history and just walking amongst the buildings takes you
> back hundreds of years in your mind. Sorry, but the all you can eat
> Chinese buffet is like painting a couple of Andy Warhol replicas in the
> Sistine Chapel so as to update it.
>
> You can sit at an outdoor table with your espresso or gelato and
> Boccherrini and Puccini's music fills your mind. It should not be
> spoiled.
>
When I went you could only get there by tiny little old rickety train.

"grossbea" > wrote in message
news:yuydnS1OWIsunx7UnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@cablespeedmi .com...
> So...You would agree with banning anything other than American style
> (whatever that is....) from such places as the tourist areas of Annapolis,
> MD, or Mystic, CT? Just curious>
>

Yes, possibly, in certain historic areas. Have you been to Lucca? If not,
make the trip and get back to me when you've seen it.

I've also been to the Mystic Seaport , Plimoth Plantation, Sturbridge
Village, and don't recall any restaurants that are out of character to the
environs.

In the case of Lucca, there is a portion of the town surrounded by wall. It
is only that area that they want to preserve. Thee are plenty of other
places a short walk away that can have anything you desire. I went to Lucca
(as well as some other towns) to enjoy the historic ambiance, stroll the
narrow streets, be a tourist. If you want to make the city look like just
another city, I'm not interesting in going.

I've been to Italy often and am planning another trip, maybe two. I'll be
bringing back certain foods that I cannot get here. I'll be enjoying
certain foods that I can only eat while there. None will be Chinese takeout
but if I get a yen for an eggroll, it will be on the outskirts of town, not
in some historic area.

I don't complain of the lack of shade trees in the desert, now do I complain
about the lack of sun in a rain forest, now will I try to change them.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "grossbea" > wrote in message
> news:yuydnS1OWIsunx7UnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@cablespeedmi .com...
>> So...You would agree with banning anything other than American style
>> (whatever that is....) from such places as the tourist areas of
>> Annapolis, MD, or Mystic, CT? Just curious>
>>
>
> Yes, possibly, in certain historic areas. Have you been to Lucca? If
> not, make the trip and get back to me when you've seen it.
>
> I've also been to the Mystic Seaport , Plimoth Plantation, Sturbridge
> Village, and don't recall any restaurants that are out of character to the
> environs.
>
> In the case of Lucca, there is a portion of the town surrounded by wall.
> It is only that area that they want to preserve. Thee are plenty of other
> places a short walk away that can have anything you desire. I went to
> Lucca (as well as some other towns) to enjoy the historic ambiance, stroll
> the narrow streets, be a tourist. If you want to make the city look like
> just another city, I'm not interesting in going.
>
> I've been to Italy often and am planning another trip, maybe two. I'll be
> bringing back certain foods that I cannot get here. I'll be enjoying
> certain foods that I can only eat while there. None will be Chinese
> takeout but if I get a yen for an eggroll, it will be on the outskirts of
> town, not in some historic area.
>
> I don't complain of the lack of shade trees in the desert, now do I
> complain about the lack of sun in a rain forest, now will I try to change
> them.
>
>

This is an admirable idea, but, as usual, the devil is in the implementation
details.

Who's to say, for example, what constitutes an unwanted deviation from
classic Lucca?
What if the chef of an existing restaurant decides to add a new ingredient?
Do the town
fathers have veto power over the menu or the recipes?

And, hypothetically, suppose some enterprising restauntreur can show that
back in the
distant past some "foreign element" (Chinese, Arab, whatever) had once owned
a
restaurant in Lucca. Is he allowed to reestablish that business?

Someone needs to set the rules ahead of time, not make them up as they go
along or
the rules will become another basis for discrimination.

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Bubba Wictor; that was an interesting read. We were in Lucca a
> > year and a bit ago. I don't believe we had a meal there, though; just
> > visited another blinkin' church.
>
> You did have a meal there... I remember posting a comment:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/1ddff7fcbd3016dc>.

> Bubba Wictor

Heh! I haven't looked at your link, but I'll guess that that's where we
had the medieval meal. Seems like that would make sense. Yeah?
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
http://gallery.me.com/barbschaller/100041
-- a woman my age shouldn't
have this much fun!

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Pandora wrote:
>
>> A little comment: have you ever seen a lot of foreign restaurant in an
>> arabic country?
>
> Sure. I've seen McDonald's in every country I've ever visited, including
> Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Burger
> King is almost as ubiquitous. Dubai has some world-class French
> restaurants. Some of the best Indian food I've had was in Indian
> restaurants in Kuwait. Kuwait also had a Chili's, a TGI Fridays, and a
> Johnny Rockets (all of which are American chain restaurants) which were
> popular with the locals.
>


Is there a requirement for the food to be halal?

gloria p

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Bubba Wictor; that was an interesting read. We were in Lucca a
> > year and a bit ago. I don't believe we had a meal there, though; just
> > visited another blinkin' church.
>
> You did have a meal there... I remember posting a comment:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.cooking/msg/1ddff7fcbd3016dc>.
>
> I wish I were in Lucca now... it was there, back in the early '80s or
> so, that I first tasted capretto (kid, skewered, I think) at the famous
> Buca di Sant'Antonio, which is still there, it seems. Sometimes I am
> surprised at the clarity of my own remembrance of foods past - I still
> distinctly recollect that the meat was a bit overcooked and rather
> fatty, yet I liked it well enough, probably just because it was
> capretto! In Lucca! Ah!
>
> Bubba Wictor

OK, I see I was wrong. The medieval dinner was in Siena. We had lunch
in Lucca at an olive oil producer's operation. I think I bought some of
my olive oil there.

I have little experience with goat meat. Most of what I've read says
it's tough and often prepared with a pressure cooker. Was the skewered
kid tender? I'm guessing it probably was. What else did you eat with
it?

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
http://gallery.me.com/barbschaller/100041
-- a woman my age shouldn't
have this much fun!

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:16:09 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>>
>>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>
>>> Associated Press
>>
>>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>>
>> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's never
>> worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe genuine
>> medieval food....Good Luck!
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Having spent some time in Lucca, I say "good for them". The center if town
> is very historic and it ruins the atmosphere to have some aspects of
> commercialism. There is plenty of space outside the wall that can
> accommodate other types of restaurants. Tourists go to places such as Lucca
> for the history and just walking amongst the buildings takes you back
> hundreds of years in your mind. Sorry, but the all you can eat Chinese
> buffet is like painting a couple of Andy Warhol replicas in the Sistine
> Chapel so as to update it.
>
> You can sit at an outdoor table with your espresso or gelato and Boccherrini
> and Puccini's music fills your mind. It should not be spoiled.

tsk, tsk. i thought you were the free-enterprise, freedom-loving type.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:51:02 +1300, bob wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:16:09 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>
>>
>>"James Silverton" > wrote in message
.. .
>>> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>>>
>>>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>>
>>>> Associated Press
>>>
>>>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>>>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>>>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>>>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>>>
>>> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's never
>>> worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe genuine
>>> medieval food....Good Luck!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> James Silverton
>>> Potomac, Maryland
>>
>>Having spent some time in Lucca, I say "good for them". The center if town
>>is very historic and it ruins the atmosphere to have some aspects of
>>commercialism. There is plenty of space outside the wall that can
>>accommodate other types of restaurants. Tourists go to places such as Lucca
>>for the history and just walking amongst the buildings takes you back
>>hundreds of years in your mind. Sorry, but the all you can eat Chinese
>>buffet is like painting a couple of Andy Warhol replicas in the Sistine
>>Chapel so as to update it.
>>
>>You can sit at an outdoor table with your espresso or gelato and Boccherrini
>>and Puccini's music fills your mind. It should not be spoiled.
>
> Agreed! If a community decides to protect the character and amenities
> that makes it special, then more power to it. I find the idea that
> everything has to be homogenised down to the lowest common denominator
> abhorrent.

segregation now, segregation tomorrow and segregation forever!

your pal,
george

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:33:20 +0100, Pandora wrote:

> "Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> Tuscan city says 'basta' to ethnic food
>>
>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>
>> Associated Press
>>
>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or Peking duck
>> you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of Lucca, which has just
>> barred new ethnic restaurants from opening in its historic medieval
>> center.
>>
>> Officials say new rules passed last week by Lucca's conservative
>> administration aim to protect local specialties from the rising
>> popularity of "different" cuisines. The measure also bans fast food
>> restaurants and hopes to reduce littering within the city's ancient
>> walls, a magnet for tourists.
>
> [CUT]
> This is a very interesting article. Sometimes Ethic restaurant exceded the
> local one and this is not a nice publicity for the promotion of the local
> product, expecially in countries which live on turism.
> A little comment: have you ever seen a lot of foreign restaurant in an
> arabic country?
> cheers
> Pandora

everyone should aspire to the open-hearted, welcoming nature of the arabs.

your pal,
blake

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "grossbea" > wrote in message
> news:yuydnS1OWIsunx7UnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@cablespeedmi .com...
>> So...You would agree with banning anything other than American style
>> (whatever that is....) from such places as the tourist areas of Annapolis,
>> MD, or Mystic, CT? Just curious>
>>
>
> Yes, possibly, in certain historic areas. Have you been to Lucca? If not,
> make the trip and get back to me when you've seen it.
>
> I've also been to the Mystic Seaport , Plimoth Plantation, Sturbridge
> Village, and don't recall any restaurants that are out of character to the
> environs.

I don't think Plimouth Plantation is a good example. It is basically an
enclosed theme park staffed by actors. I have never been to Sturbridge
Village - but I think it is similar to Plimouth Plantation.

I think there was a bit of a fuss when McDonald's wanted to open a
location in the Faneuil Hall area - not in it or in Quincy Market for
that matter - but just next to it. This was quite a few years ago -
maybe 15ish?

I don't like seeing fast food places in quaint villages myself. It just
looks odd. I don't mind seeing different types of restaurants though.

The only place I can think of to compare (that I've been too!) would be
Quebec City - inside the wall. It has a totally different feel inside
than it does on the outside. It's been a few years since I've been, but
there are fast food places on the inside. On the whole, though, I think
the charm factor is not too compromised. Granted it's not a medieval
city either.

-Tracy

"Tracy" > wrote in message
>
> I don't think Plimouth Plantation is a good example. It is basically an
> enclosed theme park staffed by actors. I have never been to Sturbridge
> Village - but I think it is similar to Plimouth Plantation.

True, but that is about as close as you will become in the USA. We've never
had rules to prevent the dilution that Lucca is trying to implement; I could
not think of other good examples. (there are none that I'm aware of) And it
shows here in may cities and towns. Some are now trying to implement
limits on signs rather than have a honkey-tonk sort of image. I don't want
a used car dealer in the midst of the historic areas of Philadelpia but I
don't mind them in the commercial zones.

There are places in Italy that look very close to our cities, the New Jersey
Turnpike, the shopping centers, and so forth. They have some industrial
areas, especially in the north. One of the big industries in Tuscany is
tourism and to keep that going, certain areas are not adorned with neon sign
and cell phone towers.
>

>
> I don't like seeing fast food places in quaint villages myself. It just
> looks odd. I don't mind seeing different types of restaurants though.

For the most part, I agree. There is a bit of a difference in that the US
has for many years had diversity, be that good or bad, in commercial areas.
Lucca, inside the wall, is nothing at all like the city you or I live in.
Outside the wall, much of it is the same. It is still much the same way it
was hundreds of years ago.. Preserving that is a good thing.

>
> The only place I can think of to compare (that I've been too!) would be
> Quebec City - inside the wall. It has a totally different feel inside than
> it does on the outside.

Multiply that by 100 to get what Lucca is like.

Melba's wrote on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:03:13 -0600:

>> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>>
> >> Thanks, Bubba Wictor; that was an interesting read. We
> >> were in Lucca a year and a bit ago. I don't believe we
> >> had a meal there, though; just visited another blinkin'
> >> church.
>>
>> You did have a meal there... I remember posting a comment:
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...g/msg/1ddff7fc
>> bd3016dc>.
>>
>> I wish I were in Lucca now... it was there, back in the early
>> '80s or so, that I first tasted capretto (kid, skewered, I
>> think) at the famous Buca di Sant'Antonio, which is still
>> there, it seems. Sometimes I am surprised at the clarity of
>> my own remembrance of foods past - I still distinctly
>> recollect that the meat was a bit overcooked and
>> rather fatty, yet I liked it well enough, probably just
>> because it was capretto! In Lucca! Ah!
>>
>> Bubba Wictor

> OK, I see I was wrong. The medieval dinner was in Siena. We
> had lunch in Lucca at an olive oil producer's operation. I
> think I bought some of my olive oil there.

> I have little experience with goat meat. Most of what I've
> read says it's tough and often prepared with a pressure
> cooker. Was the skewered kid tender? I'm guessing it
> probably was. What else did you eat with it?

Real goat meat makes a good curry. You can sometimes get it in Indian
restaurants but often they admit it is mutton which has a different
texture being fattier.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
>> I don't think Plimouth Plantation is a good example. It is basically an
>> enclosed theme park staffed by actors. I have never been to Sturbridge
>> Village - but I think it is similar to Plimouth Plantation.
>
> True, but that is about as close as you will become in the USA. We've never
> had rules to prevent the dilution that Lucca is trying to implement; I could
> not think of other good examples. (there are none that I'm aware of) And it
> shows here in may cities and towns. Some are now trying to implement
> limits on signs rather than have a honkey-tonk sort of image. I don't want
> a used car dealer in the midst of the historic areas of Philadelpia but I
> don't mind them in the commercial zones.

It's really a shame - that we have only realized now how important it is
to save and protect some of our landmarks. And the best we can do
sometimes is to re-create them - like Plimouth Plantation.
>

>> The only place I can think of to compare (that I've been too!) would be
>> Quebec City - inside the wall. It has a totally different feel inside than
>> it does on the outside.
>
> Multiply that by 100 to get what Lucca is like.
>
>


I get the picture.


-Tracy

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
> >
> >> By ARIEL DAVID
> >
> >> Associated Press
> >
> >> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
> >> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
> >> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
> >> opening in its historic medieval center.
> >
> > It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's never
> > worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe genuine
> > medieval food....Good Luck!
> >
> > --
> >
> > James Silverton
> > Potomac, Maryland
>
> Having spent some time in Lucca, I say "good for them". The center if town
> is very historic and it ruins the atmosphere to have some aspects of
> commercialism. There is plenty of space outside the wall that can
> accommodate other types of restaurants. Tourists go to places such as Lucca
> for the history and just walking amongst the buildings takes you back
> hundreds of years in your mind. Sorry, but the all you can eat Chinese
> buffet is like painting a couple of Andy Warhol replicas in the Sistine
> Chapel so as to update it.
>
> You can sit at an outdoor table with your espresso or gelato and Boccherrini
> and Puccini's music fills your mind. It should not be spoiled.

I think they are a bit off the mark. I think the kind of food served is
pretty irrelevant and what they should be focusing on is the far more
common and acceptable historic district architecture and signage
regulations. As long as the exterior of the restaurant is in keeping
with the character of the area, what is served inside isn't relevant.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> >
> > I don't think Plimouth Plantation is a good example. It is basically an
> > enclosed theme park staffed by actors. I have never been to Sturbridge
> > Village - but I think it is similar to Plimouth Plantation.
>
> True, but that is about as close as you will become in the USA. We've
never
> had rules to prevent the dilution that Lucca is trying to implement; I
could
> not think of other good examples. (there are none that I'm aware of)


Maybe Nantucket? Or even Carmel...but those places don't sound as
restrictive as Lucca.


And it
> shows here in may cities and towns. Some are now trying to implement
> limits on signs rather than have a honkey-tonk sort of image. I don't
want
> a used car dealer in the midst of the historic areas of Philadelpia but I
> don't mind them in the commercial zones.


You mean that everything shouldn't be jumbled up as is done in, say,
Houston...???

;-)


--
Best
Greg

Gloria P wrote:

> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> > Pandora wrote:
> >
> >> A little comment: have you ever seen a lot of foreign restaurant in an
> >> arabic country?
> >
> > Sure. I've seen McDonald's in every country I've ever visited, including
> > Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Burger
> > King is almost as ubiquitous. Dubai has some world-class French
> > restaurants. Some of the best Indian food I've had was in Indian
> > restaurants in Kuwait. Kuwait also had a Chili's, a TGI Fridays, and a
> > Johnny Rockets (all of which are American chain restaurants) which were
> > popular with the locals.
> >
>
>
> Is there a requirement for the food to be halal?


A Wiki search brings up lots of "answers", but apparently yes...and McD's
has opened up halal places in Western Europe, Australia, and Dearborn,
Michigan, too...FYI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

"In Dearborn, Michigan, United States, home to one of the largest Muslim and
Arab populations in the United States, a number of fast food chains like
McDonald's introduced halal chicken nuggets. [6] In the UK and northeastern
United States, Halal fried chicken has become widely popular with both
Muslim and non-Muslim populations, and thousands of outlets such as Chicken
Cottage, Kennedy Fried Chicken, and Crown Fried Chicken have sprung up. New
York in particular is also home to many Halal food carts serving gyros,
chicken platters and other fast food, while the UK and Europe more generally
have many Muslim-owned Döner kebab shops.

A 2005 law passed in a county in Ohio, United States made it illegal to
sell, distribute, and/or produce food that has been mislabeled "halal," when
it is determined that the food does not meet Islamic dietary standards.
Similar laws protect kosher foods [7]. See Kashrut.

McDonald's is intending to offer Halal meals in the United States and some
parts of the United Kingdom with two of its franchises currently on trial,
offering this service. Six McDonald's Restaurants in Australia (two outlets
in Melbourne and four in Sydney) have Halal meals, India, Sri Lanka,
Indonesia, Pakistan, Singapore, Malaysia and South Africa are Halal
certified. [8][citation needed, link error]

Mcdonalds, Pizza Hut and KFC have been made Halal in Sri Lanka by the
Jamiyathul Ulama of Sri Lanka, the only competent authority to give out the
certification.

Pizza Hut, KFC, Wendys, Carls Jr, Burger King, A&W, Dunkin Donuts, Subway
stores in Islamic countries also serve halal foods...."


http://islam.about.com/od/dietarylaw/a/halalmcd.htm

"Halal McNuggets a Hit in Detroit
Sales are so good, McDonalds expands the idea other restaurants

In September 2000, a McDonald's restaurant in Dearborn, Michigan began
offering a halal version of its chicken nuggets, in response to requests
from area customers. Over the following year, sales of the unique item were
so good that they expanded the idea to a second Dearborn location.

Over 150,000 Muslims live in the Detroit/Dearborn area, representing an
ethnic and cultural mosaic that is typical of Muslims in America. According
to the Arab-American Institute, Dearborn has the highest concentration of
ethnic Arabs outside of the Middle East. In some area schools, more than 90%
of students are Muslim. It is not surprising, therefore, that Dearborn
stores and restaurants have begun to cater to the dietary needs of Muslims.
In addition to Muslim-owned businesses, other mainstream businesses such as
Kroger supermarket, Big Boy restaurant and Oakwood Hospital are offering
halal meats for the Muslim community.

At McDonald's, Muslim customers were often limited to the salads and
desserts. Some Muslims would eat the fries or fish sandwiches, but many
worried about possible contamination from cooking oils used for other meat
products.

McDonald's restaurants are found all over the Muslim world, including three
in the holy city of Mecca, Saudi Arabia. In these locally-owned restaurants,
meat is purchased and prepared in the local area, in accordance with local
custom. Halal meat and chicken has been available in those markets for quite
a while.

Following the success of halal McNuggets in Michigan, McDonald's Corporation
has since expanded the halal offering to select restaurants in Australia and
the United Kingdom as well..."

</>

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:37:49 -0500, "grossbea" >
shouted from the highest rooftop:

>So...You would agree with banning anything other than American style
>(whatever that is....) from such places as the tourist areas of Annapolis,
>MD, or Mystic, CT? Just curious>

Although I haven't visited Annapolis in over 50 years and I'm not
familiar with Mystic CT, I can't think of any place in the US that has
the kind of architectural & cultural history that we're talking about
with Lucca. Nor can I think of any that ever will.

Nevertheless, I believe that if any community - including Annapolis -
decides to protect the character and amenities that make it special,
then it should be able to do so as the community has in Lucca.

For example, the local community on the small resort island where we
once lived for almost 14 years decided it didn't want a jetski hire
business operating at a popular beach destination despite the fact
that it would cut down on tourist numbers.

The fact was, the locals did not want to encourage the kind of tourist
who would come to the island to ride a jetski and spoil the peace and
quiet that made the beach special to the visitors it DID want to
encourage. And that was OUR choice, as it should be.

Banning "ethnic" food outlets in Lucca may not only be the local
community's way of protecting its cultural history - as THEY define it
- but also a way of discouraging the kind of visitor the community may
not want.

Like I already mentioned: I find the idea that everything has to be
homogenised and dumbed-down to the lowest common denominator
abhorrent.



--

una cerveza mas por favor ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

James Silverton wrote:
> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>
>> By ARIEL DAVID
>
>> Associated Press
>
>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>
> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's
> never worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe
> genuine medieval food....Good Luck!
>


Tomatoes, potatoes and pepper came from the New World, so the basics of
a lot of Italian cooking would have been unknown until the 16th century.
Pasta is another import. Italian food would be entirely different had it
not been for outside influences.

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> I have little experience with goat meat. Most of what I've read says
> it's tough and often prepared with a pressure cooker.

Goat meat does tend to be tough and has a taste of its own. Kid can as
well be from a different universe, being white and as tender as most
anything.

> Was the skewered
> kid tender? I'm guessing it probably was.

It was.

> What else did you eat with
> it?

I no longer remember.

Bubba

"Tom Royer" > wrote in message
> This is an admirable idea, but, as usual, the devil is in the
> implementation details.
>
> Who's to say, for example, what constitutes an unwanted deviation from
> classic Lucca?
> What if the chef of an existing restaurant decides to add a new
> ingredient? Do the town
> fathers have veto power over the menu or the recipes?

You can be sure the old ladies that do some of the cooking in the small
restaurants will tell you what is acceptable and what is not. Not uncommon
for some of the recipes to go back a half dozen generations.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
>
> I think they are a bit off the mark. I think the kind of food served is
> pretty irrelevant and what they should be focusing on is the far more
> common and acceptable historic district architecture and signage
> regulations. As long as the exterior of the restaurant is in keeping
> with the character of the area, what is served inside isn't relevant.

Your appreciation of Lucca is different than mine. If you've never been
there, that is understandable. There is more to some of the small European
towns that just the outside of a building. Some things are great to have,
like electricity and flush toilets, but others just take away from the
experience.

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:17:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>>
>> I think they are a bit off the mark. I think the kind of food served is
>> pretty irrelevant and what they should be focusing on is the far more
>> common and acceptable historic district architecture and signage
>> regulations. As long as the exterior of the restaurant is in keeping
>> with the character of the area, what is served inside isn't relevant.
>
> Your appreciation of Lucca is different than mine. If you've never been
> there, that is understandable. There is more to some of the small
> European towns that just the outside of a building. Some things are
> great to have, like electricity and flush toilets, but others just take
> away from the experience.

That is right. I don't think the presence of a McDonald's will attribute
to the charms of Lucca. Au contraire..

--
Groet, salut, Wim.

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:31:53 -0500, Dave Smith
> shouted from the highest
rooftop:

>James Silverton wrote:
>> Victor wrote on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:54:33 +0100:
>>
>>> By ARIEL DAVID
>>
>>> Associated Press
>>
>>> ROME (AP) - If you are craving a kebab, tandoori chicken or
>>> Peking duck you may go hungry in the small Tuscan city of
>>> Lucca, which has just barred new ethnic restaurants from
>>> opening in its historic medieval center.
>>
>> It's a well-worn attempt to stave off evolution by legislation. It's
>> never worked but they keep on trying. Perhaps they should prescribe
>> genuine medieval food....Good Luck!
>>
>
>
>Tomatoes, potatoes and pepper came from the New World, so the basics of
>a lot of Italian cooking would have been unknown until the 16th century.
>Pasta is another import. Italian food would be entirely different had it
>not been for outside influences.

And many of the spices used in their cooking were also introduced. So
what?

I think most people would accept that the use of ingredients that goes
back several hundred years can be considered traditional by now ...
and that the people of Lucca are in a far better position than posters
on rfc to judge what THEY consider to be traditional & desirable as
opposed to what THEY consider to be "ethnic" and not desirable.

It is, after all, their community.


--

una cerveza mas por favor ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
>
> tsk, tsk. i thought you were the free-enterprise, freedom-loving type.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Yes, but just not in my back yard