In article >, davebugg2
@yahoo.com says...
>
> "Andy" > wrote in message ...
>
> > There are also old (pre-cable) apartment buildings that can't be wired
> > with
> > cable so they need the digital converter. I hope they understand they will
> > still only get the 10 or so channels as before, not the entire cable
> > channel lineup. All the pitching about the digital converters avoid
> > mentioning that.
>
> There's a pretty good chance that the number of channels they recieve will
> actually increase. Many stations are using the digital bandwidth to provide
> multiple programming. Most PBS stations may offer 2, 3, 4 or more
> programming choices. So, instead of just over-the-air channel 9, there may
> be channels 9, 9.1, 9.2, 9.3, etc.


I noticed that. All the local stations offer two channels now and PBS
has 5 different feeds. It's really quite extraordinary.

On Sun 22 Feb 2009 12:45:31a, T told us...

> In article > , ty55u453
> @xxxx9x.ru says...
>>
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>> > Nancy Young wrote:
>> > >
>> > > They are idiots. Beating us over the head about the date, then
>> > > changing it at the last second. How about just going ahead with
>> > > it, and let people apply for a rebate after the fact? Figure it
>> > > out!
>> >
>> > Could be worse. When color was introduced, they first went
>> > with the CBS color system which allowed existing black-and-
>> > white sets to be upgraded to color. Then later the same
>> > year (1950), they reversed that decision and went with
>> > the incompatible RCA color system, which is the system used to the
>> > present day.
>>
>>
>> IIRC wasn't it the other way around? After the CBS color system was
>> announced "General" David Sarnoff, the head of RCA/NBC, went to
>> Congress and the media crying about the cost of everyone having to buy
>> a new set in order to receive color broadcasts if the CBS standard was
>> adopted.. Sarnoff touted his RCA "compatible color" system (which was
>> somewhat inferior to the CBS system, despite ithe CBS color having some
>> mechanical parts IIRC and thus not fully "electronic"), the powers -
>> that - be reversed their ruling, and the RCA system was it...color TV
>> was then introduced in late 1954 (a set cost a thousand bux, about
>> $7500.00 in 2009 dollars - and very little color programming). RCA for
>> years after pretty much had the monopoly on the nanufacture of color
>> CRT's - if a manufacturer wanted to produce a color set they had to go
>> to RCA to procure the tube. That crafty Sarnoff...
>>
>> I'll check the old TV history sites to corroborate...
>
> Sarnoff was a real piece of work. He also screwed over Howard Armstrong,
> probably one of the best minds when it came to RF engineering.
>
> Armstrong is the inventor of the regerative receiver, the
> superheterodyne receiver, and most lasting FM.
>
> Then of course there's De Forest, the man who invented the Audion tube
> except he had no idea what the capabilities of that tube might really
> be, at least beyond basic RF detection and amplification.
>
> It took Armstrong to understand the Audion well enough to figure out
> regeneration and the fact that if you overdrove an Audion tube it would
> modulate in the RF spectrum.
>
> Of course De Forest didn't like this and litigated to overturn
> Armstrongs patents.
>
> At the same time Sarnoff screwed Armstrong too. He lead Armstrong to
> develop FM then shitcanned it for television.
>
> Armstrong committed suicide because of the extended lawsuits with De
> Forest and the bullshit from Sarnoff.

I well remember the CBS system, as my dad quickly bought the conversion
"kit" to install on our 20" Freed-Eiseman television that had a CBS
chassis, and was already outfitted with the octal socket that the converter
box plugged into. The entire aparatus was a monstrosity. There was a
converter box that could be located on or near the television, but every
set required a motorized colorwheel that was twice the diameter of the
actual picture tube. We had this 40" wheel encased in wood that sat atop
the television, the front of which hung down over the front of the picture
tube. Another downside was that the actual picture size was reduced by
this thing. It's no wonder that the RCA system was adopted.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

In article >,
says...
>
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:28:40 -0800, Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> > "Andy" > wrote in message ...
> >
> >> There are also old (pre-cable) apartment buildings that can't be wired
> >> with
> >> cable so they need the digital converter. I hope they understand they will
> >> still only get the 10 or so channels as before, not the entire cable
> >> channel lineup. All the pitching about the digital converters avoid
> >> mentioning that.
> >
> > There's a pretty good chance that the number of channels they recieve will
> > actually increase. Many stations are using the digital bandwidth to provide
> > multiple programming. Most PBS stations may offer 2, 3, 4 or more
> > programming choices. So, instead of just over-the-air channel 9, there may
> > be channels 9, 9.1, 9.2, 9.3, etc.
>
> i just installed my digital converter box, and what you say is exactly
> right. the p.b.s. station has multiple feeds, and most of the other
> cahnnel have at least one other (usually devoted to weather.) i also get
> two u.h.f. staions that were too faint for my previous set-up (rabbit ears
> and t.v.) to pick up.
>
> one channel in my area has a retro channel, with 'rockford files,' 'the
> a-team,' 'mission impossible,' and the like.
>
> i did have trouble integrating that with my dvd/vcr machine though. i'd
> welcome any insight on that aspect.
>
> your pal,
> blake

It should go converter-->VCR/DVD-->TV. Most VCR's have the coaxial cable
jacks on them so you'll need a piece of jumper to go from the VCR to the
TV.

I should print up business cards, HDTV Specialist and charge ppl $50 a
whack to hook the stuff up and get them running.

In article >, gravesend10
@verizon.net says...
>
> "Andy" > wrote in message ...
> > Gregory Morrow said...
> >
> >>
> >> James Silverton wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dan wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:53:40 -0800:
> >>>
> >>> >> What the top-of-the-line box benefit is, I can't begin to
> >>> >> guess.
> >>>
> >>> > Since I don't need one, I've forgotten, but it seemed
> >>> > significant when I read it. For somebody buying a box for
> >>> > that extra tv in the basement, or garage, or lakeside cottage,
> >>> > maybe the cheapie will do. I would look hard at the features
> >>> > if it was going to be my main source of tv.
> >>>
> >>> >> In all actuality, I can't believe so many people are left
> >>> >> that don't already have cable TV.
> >>>
> >>> > I don't remember the exact estimated numbers, but it's in the
> >>> > millions.
> >>>
> >>> I suppose one should sympathize with people who cannot afford cable TV
> >>> or to whom it is not available but they had very adequate warning of
> >>> the change and the cost of the converter, especially with the
> >>> certificate is not great.
> >>
> >>
> >> There are some peeps out there who simply will never "get with the
> >> program", James, no matter how often they are hammered with information.
> >> These are the folks who will fill the airwaves with their wailings come
> >> the digital "D Day" in June...these are the same sorts who express
> >> amazement that they can't take large bottles of liquid 'n stuff through
> >> airport security lines, etcetera.
> >>
> >> One of the local Chicago papers is running a deal where those with
> >> excess coupons send them in, these are distributed to those who contact
> >> the paper and request a coupon. They've distributed a few hundred IIRC.
> >> I've also heard of outfits like Meals On Wheels and other social
> >> service agencies helping elderly folks with getting and installing their
> >> converters, it can be confusing for them.
> >>
> >> I've read that here are some folks, however, who live in remote fringe
> >> reception areas that will be SOL even with the converters, their
> >> reception is so bad...
> >
> >
> > There are also old (pre-cable) apartment buildings that can't be wired
> > with
> > cable so they need the digital converter.
>
> Well, those buildings can be wired with cable, but only if the landlord
> agrees to take responsibility for the account covering all apartments in the
> building for basic cable... which entails all tenants accepting a rent
> increase.
>
> I hope they understand they will
> > still only get the 10 or so channels as before, not the entire cable
> > channel lineup. All the pitching about the digital converters avoid
> > mentioning that.
> >
> > Andy
>
> Yes, but they'll get much better reception, no comparison to a roof antenna,
> and they can individually agree to pay directly for a premium channel line
> up. They can also subscribe to the cable Internet account, and for phone
> service... believe me, the cable companies do not refrain from "pitching"
> all their services... mine constantly flashes messages on the little screen
> on the digital box... if I don't use the remote to read the message before
> it permits me to delete it its constant flashing can drive me nuts... the
> messages advertise all new PPV, all kinds of special introductory offers,
> free give aways for subscribing, etc., some days there are none but other
> days there could be a dozen messages throughout the day... I no sooner
> delete one and twenty minutes later there's a new one. And many messages
> are repeated constantly. If I put a book over the window to hide the
> blinking then the remote wont work. Still, cable is much better than an
> antenna.

Black electrical tape is your answer. If you look closely you'll see the
IR receiver element. Just tape over everything but that.

In article >, says...
>
> brooklyn1 said...
>
> >> There are also old (pre-cable) apartment buildings that can't be wired
> >> with
> >> cable so they need the digital converter.
> >
> > Well, those buildings can be wired with cable, but only if the landlord
> > agrees to take responsibility for the account covering all apartments in
> > the building for basic cable... which entails all tenants accepting a
> > rent increase.
>
> For most older buildings you're wrong. They would have to thread a cable
> per apartment. An impossible task. Unless the building is built with cable
> (or conduits for future expansion) in the plans it's not going to happen.
> Look at some of the old tiered art deco skyscrapers. Can't be done. Best
> residents could do if they have a balcony and the right sky exposure is
> install satellite.
>
> You think tenement landlords are going to wire in cable TV/internet?

Or they could do the Verizon method. Run all the wiring on the outside
of the building.

In article >, says...
>
> T > wrote:
>
> >What I find more amusing is that they're going to be re-using the
> >spectrum formerly occupied by NTSC telvision signals for public safety
> >and general data.
> >
> >Find an old TV with a manual tuner and you can tap the signal from there
> >and feed it into a GNU Radio box and listen in. Fun times!
>
> Won't be that easy, without a white-space-specific modem.
> Otherwise you cannot untangle the modulation. But those may
> be pretty cheap, soon.
>
> Does "GNU Radio Box" implement software modems?
>
> Steve

It can. It's going to be very interesting to see what pans out.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:48:53 -0500, T wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:49:56 GMT, blake murphy
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:18:49 -0600, Lou Decruss wrote:
>>
>>>> I'd rather hear both sides of the rubbish that nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>while i'd agree that the 'mainstream media' aren't so good at presenting
>>>both sides (usually in the form of 'he said, she said'), i would question
>>>whether cable is better in that regard. yeah, you have liberals keith
>>>olbermann and rachel maddow, but they are only two against how many
>>>wingnuts and 'centrists' who say the only way democrats can survive is to
>>>become republicans?
>>
>> Cable is better for a well rounded point of view.
>>
>> Lou
>
> Actually the net is better for the well rounded point of view.

one point in favor of the 'net is that if you lie, or misconstrue a source,
commenters will happily point this out. (of course, most of the right-wing
sites don't allow comments.)

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:55:07 -0500, T wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
>>
>>
>> i just installed my digital converter box, and what you say is exactly
>> right. the p.b.s. station has multiple feeds, and most of the other
>> cahnnel have at least one other (usually devoted to weather.) i also get
>> two u.h.f. staions that were too faint for my previous set-up (rabbit ears
>> and t.v.) to pick up.
>>
>> one channel in my area has a retro channel, with 'rockford files,' 'the
>> a-team,' 'mission impossible,' and the like.
>>
>> i did have trouble integrating that with my dvd/vcr machine though. i'd
>> welcome any insight on that aspect.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> It should go converter-->VCR/DVD-->TV. Most VCR's have the coaxial cable
> jacks on them so you'll need a piece of jumper to go from the VCR to the
> TV.
>
> I should print up business cards, HDTV Specialist and charge ppl $50 a
> whack to hook the stuff up and get them running.

i did get it hooked up o.k. - at first i couldn't play tapes or disks - now
i have to see whether i'm configured to tape stuff from the converted
channels. i'm not sure if i can 'tell' the v.c.r. what channel it's
supposed to tape.

your pal,
blake

Lou Decruss wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:47:26 -0600, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Lou Decruss wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:46:36 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> With analog rural areas might get a weak snowy picture. With
digital
> >> >> you either get nothing or it blinks on and off. Digital may be
better
> >> >> in the city but some farmers are screwed. Some will have to bite
the
> >> >> bullet and get a dish.
> >> >>
> >> >> Lou
> >> >
> >> >Nope, Obama is having the high speed internet made available to
everyone
> >for
> >> >$2.5 billion. That should bring TV too.
> >>
> >> I wonder if that will happen before the 9 bil train between Florida
> >> and Vegas?
> >
> >
> >"Oh..it's...it's M-A-G-I-C...!!!"
>
> The magician can't even timely pay for his election night party. The
> biggest fund raiser in history still owes us 1.7 million. A friend
> was over the other day an commented it was embarrassing to live here.
> I told him not for me. I didn't vote for any of the bullshitters.
>


Heh...and I wonder what Roland Burris is "thinking" about this weekend.


--
Best
Greg

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:48:12 -0500, T >
wrote:

>In article >,
says...

>> I'd rather hear both sides of the rubbish that nothing.
>>
>> Lou
>
>That's the problem. There is no longer any requirement for equal time.
>Fox portrays itself as fair and balanced but that's the biggest lie I've
>ever heard.

Hearing "Both sides" would include watching more than one channel.
Unfortunately that will mean you'll hear things you won't want to
believe.

Lou

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:03:21 -0600, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>Lou Decruss wrote:

>> >"Oh..it's...it's M-A-G-I-C...!!!"
>>
>> The magician can't even timely pay for his election night party. The
>> biggest fund raiser in history still owes us 1.7 million. A friend
>> was over the other day an commented it was embarrassing to live here.
>> I told him not for me. I didn't vote for any of the bullshitters.
>>
>
>
>Heh...and I wonder what Roland Burris is "thinking" about this weekend.

Hopefully his next job. I think is was Danny Davis who said today the
problems were just transferred anger towards Blago. Another kook.

Lou

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:52:35 -0500, T >
wrote:

>My computer is my converged device of choice so I ordered and received a
>Pinnacle HD Pro USB Stick. It's got a USB connector on one end and a
>cable F connector on the other end.
>
>Plug it in, load up the software and use the included antenna. I pull
>maybe 6 channels. Cut a piece of 8' copper wire and hook it up to the
>unit and I'm getting all the Providence and Boston stations.

How far are you from the cities?

Lou