maxine said...

> On Mar 14, 11:16*am, Andy > wrote:
>> Van said...
>>
>> > Andy, the TV cooks are just trying to steer you away from the "cooking
>> > wines" you'll find in supermarkets.
>>
>> > I only tried beef bourguignon with *burgundy* ONCE. *It was awful.
>> > (1970-ish)
>>
>> > Next time (and subsequent 100 or so times), I've used CHIANTI and
Julia
>> > Child's recipe. B I G difference.
>>
>> > Now THAT is freakin' AWESOME!! *I mean delicious!! Guests demand
>> > take-home containers as well as the recipe every time.
>>
>> <recipe snipped and saved for brevity>
>>
>> Van,
>>
>> That's one heck of a recipe!
>>
>> I have that cookbook! It was a garage sale 25¢ "best buy." Only problem
> I
>> have is that most of the recipes are titled in French so looking
somethin
> g
>> up in the index can be difficult (I don't speah or read French).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>
> Que tu es bete, mon povre petit frere!
>
> (most of what I remember from ALM French in high school)
> ;-)
> maxine in ri


maxine in ri,

Whoa... you lost me on two fronts, French and Acronyms!

Best,

Andy
Dumber by the Day

Dan Abel > wrote:

>I have a different memory, but I'm often wrong nowadays. I thought
>Boeuf Bourguignon was beef in the style of Burgundy, which is an area in
>France where wine of the same name comes from.

That's true, but there is also Burgundy wine used in braising it.

Steve

On Mar 14, 8:18*pm, Andy > wrote:
> maxine said...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 14, 11:16*am, Andy > wrote:
> >> Van said...
>
> >> > Andy, the TV cooks are just trying to steer you away from the "cooking
> >> > wines" you'll find in supermarkets.
>
> >> > I only tried beef bourguignon with *burgundy* ONCE. *It was awful.
> >> > (1970-ish)
>
> >> > Next time (and subsequent 100 or so times), I've used CHIANTI and
> Julia
> >> > Child's recipe. B I G difference.
>
> >> > Now THAT is freakin' AWESOME!! *I mean delicious!! Guests demand
> >> > take-home containers as well as the recipe every time.
>
> >> <recipe snipped and saved for brevity>
>
> >> Van,
>
> >> That's one heck of a recipe!
>
> >> I have that cookbook! It was a garage sale 25¢ "best buy." Only problem
> > *I
> >> have is that most of the recipes are titled in French so looking
> somethin
> > g
> >> up in the index can be difficult (I don't speah or read French).
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >> Andy
>
> > Que tu es bete, mon povre petit frere!
>
> > (most of what I remember from ALM French in high school)
> > ;-)
> > maxine in ri
>
> maxine in ri,
>
> Whoa... you lost me on two fronts, French and Acronyms!
>
> Best,
>
> Andy
> Dumber by the Day

The French was from the little dialogs that the Audio-Lingual Method
of learning languages used in an effort to make the language come
alive for bored high school students. It must have worked, since I do
remember phrases like that one and "Ou es la biblioteque?" Very
useful when one is traveling....

maxine in ri

maxine said...

> On Mar 14, 8:18*pm, Andy > wrote:
>> maxine said...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 14, 11:16*am, Andy > wrote:
>> >> Van said...
>>
>> >> > Andy, the TV cooks are just trying to steer you away from the
"cooki
> ng
>> >> > wines" you'll find in supermarkets.
>>
>> >> > I only tried beef bourguignon with *burgundy* ONCE. *It was awful.
>> >> > (1970-ish)
>>
>> >> > Next time (and subsequent 100 or so times), I've used CHIANTI and
>> Julia
>> >> > Child's recipe. B I G difference.
>>
>> >> > Now THAT is freakin' AWESOME!! *I mean delicious!! Guests demand
>> >> > take-home containers as well as the recipe every time.
>>
>> >> <recipe snipped and saved for brevity>
>>
>> >> Van,
>>
>> >> That's one heck of a recipe!
>>
>> >> I have that cookbook! It was a garage sale 25¢ "best buy." Only prob
> lem
>> > *I
>> >> have is that most of the recipes are titled in French so looking
>> somethin
>> > g
>> >> up in the index can be difficult (I don't speah or read French).
>>
>> >> Thanks,
>>
>> >> Andy
>>
>> > Que tu es bete, mon povre petit frere!
>>
>> > (most of what I remember from ALM French in high school)
>> > ;-)
>> > maxine in ri
>>
>> maxine in ri,
>>
>> Whoa... you lost me on two fronts, French and Acronyms!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Andy
>> Dumber by the Day
>
> The French was from the little dialogs that the Audio-Lingual Method
> of learning languages used in an effort to make the language come
> alive for bored high school students. It must have worked, since I do
> remember phrases like that one and "Ou es la biblioteque?" Very
> useful when one is traveling....
>
> maxine in ri


maxine in ri,

Is this going to be on the exam???

Best,

Andy

In article >, says...
>
> For the longest time I've wondered about TV cooks over emphasizing to viewers
> to "only add wine that you would drink." to the pot.
>
> Who's in the business of making wine you wouldn't drink? Boone's Farm!
>
> Maybe based on personal taste?
>
> First and last wine'd dish, beef bourguignon. Turned out terrible. A flawed
> recipe.
>
> Anyone?
>
> Andy


You have to be very careful about wine from the liquor store around the
corner from me. Much of the time the higher priced stuff is crap.

I tend to go for the Italian wines.

But we do have an absolutely marvelous wine store called Eno. The SO and
I have gotten some absolutely spectacular wines from that place. The
people who own it know pairings for just about every type of food. And
they're willing to point you in the right direction.

In article >,
says...
>
> Andy wrote on Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:40:39 -0500:
>
> > Who's in the business of making wine you wouldn't drink?
> > Boone's Farm!
>
> > Maybe based on personal taste?
>
> > First and last wine'd dish, beef bourguignon. Turned out
> > terrible. A flawed recipe.
>
> > Anyone?
>
> "Wine you would drink" covers quite a range of prices. I tend to buy the
> more expensive 3-liter boxes with wine better than French and Italian
> country wines but the 4-5liter Almaden-type boxes have wines that can be
> enjoyed if not savored and are perfectly good enough for cooking. IMHO,
> of course. Wines in jugs are something else.

Some of the boxed wines aren't bad at all.

In article >,
says...
>
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > "Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
> >> Interesting. I don't like wine from boxes at all, but I am perfectly
> >> content with Carlo Rossi Burgundy from a jug. I use it in cooking and I
> >> drink it. I decent it into a cut glass decanter that I bought for $10 at
> >> Marshall's.
> >
> > Use to be only a couple of poor grades in boxes. Now there are a few decent
> > brands and the prices are reasonable. .
> >
> >
> The problem is that I can't see buying all that wine in a box if I'm not
> going to like it. I'm more comfortable with tossing a bottle of bad wine
> down the sink. <g>

I found a better use for bad wines. I tend to keep a lot of fruit around
and the bottle becomes the sacrificial fruit fly trap.

> My neighbor drinks tons of white Zinfandel from a box all day long. It
> tastes like bad raspberry soda to me. I can tolerate cheap white Zin
> from Sutter Home, in a bottle when it is very cold, but the stuff from
> the box....not so.

There was a time that was pretty much all I'd drink. Now I can't stomach
it, too sweet.

In article >, gravesend10
@verizon.net says...
>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Andy wrote on Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:40:39 -0500:
> >
> >> Who's in the business of making wine you wouldn't drink?
> >> Boone's Farm!
> >
> >> Maybe based on personal taste?
> >
> >> First and last wine'd dish, beef bourguignon. Turned out
> >> terrible. A flawed recipe.
> >
> >> Anyone?
>
> I almost never cook with wine. Dishes indicating wine I think turn out
> better with beer... next stew add a couple beers, whatever beer you're
> drinking.
>
> > "Wine you would drink" covers quite a range of prices.
>
> Anyone pours $30/liter wine into stew is an asshole... that's as low IQ as
> using top shelf scotch for a sour.
>
> I tend to buy the
> > more expensive 3-liter boxes with wine better than French and Italian
> > country wines but the 4-5liter Almaden-type boxes have wines that can be
> > enjoyed if not savored and are perfectly good enough for cooking. IMHO, of
> > course. Wines in jugs are something else.
> >
> >
> You actually think the size of the package makes a difference... it all
> comes from the same place... many different brands of wine are produced at
> the same winery in the same vat. Most every winery markets multiple brands
> (different packaging), it's all the same wine... this is true of most all
> products, but especially in the food and beverage industries. The cosmetic
> industry is especially guilty of questionable practices. The lipstick at
> the 99¢ store is the same as from Neiman Marcus, for $10 more you get
> glitzier packaging and the sales reps project an image so for those few
> moments they're picking your pocket you feel like royalty, but once they sit
> you down at the cosmetics bar you're not going to leave without getting a
> custom make over and dropping $300 for $20 worth of face paint. Wine and
> spirits works the same schtick. There's absolutely not a lick of difference
> between $15 vodka and $45 vodka, none because it comes out of the same
> vat... fancy glass bottles with foil labels in fancy schmancy presentation
> boxes and slick magazine spreads cost more than nondescript plastic jugs and
> zero Madison Ave input is all. All that bare cleavage in Swedish vodka ads
> cost a lotta Krona.. with my Crystal Palace all I get are my own
> manufactured dreams of Rapunzel.


Recall that a group did a study of vodka and found that running the
cheapest vodka through a Brita filter a few times yielded vodka that was
better than the high priced stuff.

T wrote on Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:57:17 -0400:

> >>
>> You actually think the size of the package makes a
>> difference... it all comes from the same place... many
>> different brands of wine are produced at the same winery in

The quoting on this post seems to have gotten a bit screwed up so I
won't attribute the above to anyone in particular.

It is amazing how some people jump to conclusions. I gave the sizes of
wine boxes purely as descriptors, not maintaining that size by itself
has anything to do with quality. Almaden et al. have sold wine in 4 to 5
liter boxes for more than 20 years. It's not great but quite drinkable.
Recently, better quality box wine has shown up, mostly from Australia,
and this is sold in 3 liter boxes. I don't know whether all 3 liter wine
is better than the larger packages not having conducted a survey.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> For the longest time I've wondered about TV cooks over emphasizing to
> viewers
> to "only add wine that you would drink." to the pot.
>
> Who's in the business of making wine you wouldn't drink? Boone's Farm!
>
> Maybe based on personal taste?
>
> First and last wine'd dish, beef bourguignon. Turned out terrible. A
> flawed
> recipe.
>
> Anyone?
>
> Andy

I would imaging those chefs mean a $9 bottle of a dry merlot to cook with,
rather than say a $50 bottle of barolo.

By he way, a $9 bottle of dry merlot-paul mason or some such-works well in
beef bourguignon.

"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> Hugh said...
>
>> Two Buck Chuck, or Charles Shaw from Trader Joes. Use either merlot or
>> cabernet. Any full
>> bodies inexpensive wine works fine, though we like Two Buck Chuck.
>>
>> Hugh
>
>
> Hugh,
>
> Two Buck Chuck won top honors in a wine competition. The chardonay won a
> double gold (?), Best of California and Best in Class.
>
> I've been itching to try some but none of the Trader Joes near me sell
> alcohol. The closest being 130 miles away in New Jersey, which would make
> it $22 Buck Chuck when all's said and done. [sigh]
>
> Best,
>
> Andy
>
> FYI:
> TJs Coming Soon:
> Aliso Viejo, CA
> Huntington Harbor, CA
> Larkspur, CA
> Newbury Park, CA
> Olympia, WA
> Redding, CA
> Santa Maria, CA - March 16
> Virginia Beach, VA

If NJ is 130 miles away, where do you live? If in NY, take a day out to
visit the wineries on LI. Worth the trip if you are a wine drinker.

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Andy wrote on Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:40:39 -0500:
>>
>>> Who's in the business of making wine you wouldn't drink?
>>> Boone's Farm!
>>
>>> Maybe based on personal taste?
>>
>>> First and last wine'd dish, beef bourguignon. Turned out
>>> terrible. A flawed recipe.
>>
>>> Anyone?
>
> I almost never cook with wine. Dishes indicating wine I think turn out
> better with beer... next stew add a couple beers, whatever beer you're
> drinking.
>
>> "Wine you would drink" covers quite a range of prices.
>
> Anyone pours $30/liter wine into stew is an asshole... that's as low IQ as
> using top shelf scotch for a sour.
>
> I tend to buy the
>> more expensive 3-liter boxes with wine better than French and Italian
>> country wines but the 4-5liter Almaden-type boxes have wines that can be
>> enjoyed if not savored and are perfectly good enough for cooking. IMHO,
>> of course. Wines in jugs are something else.
>>
>>
> You actually think the size of the package makes a difference... it all
> comes from the same place... many different brands of wine are produced at
> the same winery in the same vat. Most every winery markets multiple
> brands (different packaging), it's all the same wine... this is true of
> most all products, but especially in the food and beverage industries. The
> cosmetic industry is especially guilty of questionable practices. The
> lipstick at the 99¢ store is the same as from Neiman Marcus, for $10 more
> you get glitzier packaging and the sales reps project an image so for
> those few moments they're picking your pocket you feel like royalty, but
> once they sit you down at the cosmetics bar you're not going to leave
> without getting a custom make over and dropping $300 for $20 worth of face
> paint. Wine and spirits works the same schtick. There's absolutely not a
> lick of difference between $15 vodka and $45 vodka, none because it comes
> out of the same vat... fancy glass bottles with foil labels in fancy
> schmancy presentation boxes and slick magazine spreads cost more than
> nondescript plastic jugs and zero Madison Ave input is all. All that bare
> cleavage in Swedish vodka ads cost a lotta Krona.. with my Crystal Palace
> all I get are my own manufactured dreams of Rapunzel.
>

Gallo is the largest winery in the world. They make many decent wines for a
low cost. What they don't tell you is that they also make Thunderbird-which
accounts for 40% of their overall sales.

"T" > wrote in message
. org...
In article >, gravesend10
@verizon.net says...
>
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Andy wrote on Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:40:39 -0500:
> >
> >> Who's in the business of making wine you wouldn't drink?
> >> Boone's Farm!
> >
> >> Maybe based on personal taste?
> >
> >> First and last wine'd dish, beef bourguignon. Turned out
> >> terrible. A flawed recipe.
> >
> >> Anyone?
>
> I almost never cook with wine. Dishes indicating wine I think turn out
> better with beer... next stew add a couple beers, whatever beer you're
> drinking.
>
> > "Wine you would drink" covers quite a range of prices.
>
> Anyone pours $30/liter wine into stew is an asshole... that's as low IQ as
> using top shelf scotch for a sour.
>
> I tend to buy the
> > more expensive 3-liter boxes with wine better than French and Italian
> > country wines but the 4-5liter Almaden-type boxes have wines that can be
> > enjoyed if not savored and are perfectly good enough for cooking. IMHO,
> > of
> > course. Wines in jugs are something else.
> >
> >
> You actually think the size of the package makes a difference... it all
> comes from the same place... many different brands of wine are produced at
> the same winery in the same vat. Most every winery markets multiple
> brands
> (different packaging), it's all the same wine... this is true of most all
> products, but especially in the food and beverage industries. The cosmetic
> industry is especially guilty of questionable practices. The lipstick at
> the 99¢ store is the same as from Neiman Marcus, for $10 more you get
> glitzier packaging and the sales reps project an image so for those few
> moments they're picking your pocket you feel like royalty, but once they
> sit
> you down at the cosmetics bar you're not going to leave without getting a
> custom make over and dropping $300 for $20 worth of face paint. Wine and
> spirits works the same schtick. There's absolutely not a lick of
> difference
> between $15 vodka and $45 vodka, none because it comes out of the same
> vat... fancy glass bottles with foil labels in fancy schmancy presentation
> boxes and slick magazine spreads cost more than nondescript plastic jugs
> and
> zero Madison Ave input is all. All that bare cleavage in Swedish vodka
> ads
> cost a lotta Krona.. with my Crystal Palace all I get are my own
> manufactured dreams of Rapunzel.


Recall that a group did a study of vodka and found that running the
cheapest vodka through a Brita filter a few times yielded vodka that was
better than the high priced stuff.

I believe that was Cook's Illustrated. And the study didn't say that the
filtered cheap stuff was 'as good as or better than', rather they said that
it was 'better' than what they started with and closer to the high end
stuff.

Kswck wrote on Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:46:37 -0400:


> "T" > wrote in message
> . org...
> In article >,
> gravesend10 @verizon.net says...
>>
>> "James Silverton" > wrote in
>> message ...
> >> Andy wrote on Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:40:39 -0500:
> >>
> >>> Who's in the business of making wine you wouldn't drink?
> >>> Boone's Farm!
> >>
> >>> Maybe based on personal taste?
> >>
> >>> First and last wine'd dish, beef bourguignon. Turned out
> >>> terrible. A flawed recipe.
> >>
> >>> Anyone?
>>
>> I almost never cook with wine. Dishes indicating wine I
>> think turn out better with beer... next stew add a couple
>> beers, whatever beer you're drinking.
>>
> >> "Wine you would drink" covers quite a range of prices.
>>
>> Anyone pours $30/liter wine into stew is an asshole... that's
>> as low IQ as using top shelf scotch for a sour.
>>
>> I tend to buy the
> >> more expensive 3-liter boxes with wine better than French
> >> and Italian country wines but the 4-5liter Almaden-type
> >> boxes have wines that can be enjoyed if not savored and are
> >> perfectly good enough for cooking. IMHO, of course. Wines in jugs
> >> are something else.
> >>
>> You actually think the size of the package makes a
>> difference... it all comes from the same place... many
>> different brands of wine are produced at the same winery in
>> the same vat. Most every winery markets multiple
>> brands (different packaging), it's all the same wine... this is true
>> of most all products, but especially in the food and beverage
>> industries. The cosmetic industry is especially
>> guilty of questionable practices. The lipstick at the 99¢
>> store is the same as from Neiman Marcus, for $10 more you get
>> glitzier packaging and the sales reps project an image so for
>> those few moments they're picking your pocket you feel like
>> royalty, but once they sit you down at the cosmetics bar
>> you're not going to leave without getting a custom make over and
>> dropping $300 for $20 worth of face paint. Wine
>> and spirits works the same schtick. There's absolutely not a
>> lick of difference between $15 vodka and $45 vodka, none
>> because it comes out of the same vat... fancy glass bottles
>> with foil labels in fancy schmancy presentation boxes and
>> slick magazine spreads cost more than nondescript plastic
>> jugs and zero Madison Ave input is all. All that bare
>> cleavage in Swedish vodka ads cost a lotta Krona.. with my
>> Crystal Palace all I get are my own manufactured dreams of
>> Rapunzel.

> Recall that a group did a study of vodka and found that
> running the cheapest vodka through a Brita filter a few times yielded
> vodka that was better than the high priced stuff.

Several years ago, Consumer Reports slipped in a ringer in a vodka
testing. It was made by diluting USP alcohol with distilled water and
was rated best.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Joseph Littleshoes" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Boiled lamb in marjoram sauce
> -----------------------------
>
I wonder if that was origianlly meant for mutton.

Here's my favorite with the recipe for Shrewsbury sauce:
http://deliaonline.com/recipes/roast...ce,732,RC.html

Go easy on the lemon juice. You can always add a bit at the end.

"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> For the longest time I've wondered about TV cooks over emphasizing to
> viewers

Sign on my fridge: "I always cook with wine. Sometimes I put it in the
food!"

boulanger wrote:
> "Andy" > wrote in message ...
>> For the longest time I've wondered about TV cooks over emphasizing to
>> viewers
>
> Sign on my fridge: "I always cook with wine. Sometimes I put it in the
> food!"
>
>

Oh, I just love that! May I borrow it?

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south-Texas

"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> Theron said...
>
>>
>> "Andy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hugh said...
>>>
>>>> Two Buck Chuck, or Charles Shaw from Trader Joes. Use either merlot or
>>>> cabernet. Any full
>>>> bodies inexpensive wine works fine, though we like Two Buck Chuck.
>>>>
>>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> Hugh,
>>>
>>> Two Buck Chuck won top honors in a wine competition. The chardonay won
>>> a double gold (?), Best of California and Best in Class.
>>>
>>> I've been itching to try some but none of the Trader Joes near me sell
>>> alcohol. The closest being 130 miles away in New Jersey, which would
>>> make it $22 Buck Chuck when all's said and done. [sigh]
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>
>> A friend of mine living in the boonies in western Colorado takes his van
>> to New Mexico and returns with "many"
>> cases of Two Buck Chuck
>
>
> Theron,
>
> I'd have to try their offerings first before I committed to cases.
>
> Then I also run the risk of illegal interstate transportation of alcohol.
> I
> haven't been pulled over in 10 or more years. That would probably be just
> my luck!
>
> It's done all the time, I know. I can be in Delaware in 15 minutes, where
> there's no sales tax and no 19% (BS!!!) PA/Johnstown flood (1889) tax that
> they never withdrew!!! Heck, Johnstown should be more built up than Los
> Angeles, NYC and Chicago, combined!!! The BUMS!!! </rant>
>
> Best,
>
> Andy
>
We made out own wine one season, a 50 gallon oak barrel with cabernet. It
wasn't bad.

Ed.

"Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
...
> boulanger wrote:
>>
>> Sign on my fridge: "I always cook with wine. Sometimes I put it in the
>> food!"
>
> Oh, I just love that! May I borrow it?
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south-Texas

With pleasure! It's not mine!{:-)

There's a corollary: "When a recipe says add wine, never ask to what!"

boulanger wrote:
> "Janet Wilder" > wrote in message
> ...
>> boulanger wrote:
>>> Sign on my fridge: "I always cook with wine. Sometimes I put it in the
>>> food!"
>> Oh, I just love that! May I borrow it?
>>
>> --
>> Janet Wilder
>> Way-the-heck-south-Texas
>
> With pleasure! It's not mine!{:-)
>
> There's a corollary: "When a recipe says add wine, never ask to what!"
>
>
Lol!

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south-Texas