Pandora > wrote:

> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.

This is not anywhere nearly enough. Botulinum spores will not be
destroyed at 100°C. You need to sterilise at 121°C for at least 3-4
minutes or at 105°C for at least two hours (and even then it would
perhaps be not enough). You need an appropriate pressured device, such
as a pressure canner.

Look up such terms as "conserve casalinghe", "conserve in casa" or
"conserve fatte in casa" together with "sicurezza alimentare" and
"botulismo".

See, for example,

<http://web.mclink.it/MC1579/noframe/...onservarischio
..htm>

<http://web.mclink.it/MC1579/frame/framebotulismo.htm>

<http://www2.regione.veneto.it/videoi...anno%202006/34
/botulino.htm>

<http://www.uniconsum.it/sicurezza-al...li-dell-izsve-
tempo-di-conserve-come-difendersi-dal-botulino.html>

Victor

Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
I would do like this:
I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
say?
TIA

--
Cheers
Pandora

"Pandora" > ha scritto nel messaggio
. ..
> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> I would do like this:
> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.

Ofcourse with some of there liquid. Particularly I would like to know how
much liquid I have to put inside the pot together with chickpeas


What do you
> say?
> TIA
>
> --
> Cheers
> Pandora
>

Pandora wrote:

> "Pandora" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> . ..
>
>>Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>>I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>>vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>>I would do like this:
>>I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>>leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.
>
>
> Ofcourse with some of there liquid. Particularly I would like to know how
> much liquid I have to put inside the pot together with chickpeas

I myself wouldn't bother, mainly because commercially canned chickpeas
are so cheap, even the certified organic ones (I'm guessing this is what
you mean by "bio"?).

"Kathleen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Pandora wrote:
>
>> "Pandora" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> . ..
>>
>>>Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>>>I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>>>vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>>>I would do like this:
>>>I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>>>leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>>>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.
>>
>>
>> Ofcourse with some of there liquid. Particularly I would like to know how
>> much liquid I have to put inside the pot together with chickpeas
>
> I myself wouldn't bother, mainly because commercially canned chickpeas are
> so cheap, even the certified organic ones (I'm guessing this is what you
> mean by "bio"?).
>

Yes. But here, the organic ones are not so cheap and I would prefer to do
them myself (and in grat quantity), also because I could put inside all the
herbs I want. To give them more taste.

--
Cheers
Pandora

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:31:55 +0100, "Pandora" >
wrote:

>Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>I would do like this:
>I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>say?
>TIA


Absolutely not! Beans must be pressure canned for 75 minutes for pint
jars and 90 minutes for quart jars. By the time you have purchased
the correct equipment, you could pay the difference between organic
and regular for many cans of beans.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Mar 18, 5:31 am, "Pandora" > wrote:
> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> I would do like this:
> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
> say?
> TIA

They are a low-acid food that needs pressure-canning.

This is straight from the Ball Blue Book:

Beans of Peas - Dried

2 1/4 pounds dried beans or peas per quart
Salt (optional)
Water

Cover beans or peas with cold water. Let stand 12 to 18 hours in a
cool place. Drain. Cover beans or peas with cold water by 2 inches
in a large saucepot. Bring to a boil; boil 30 minutes, stirring
frequently. Pack hot beans or peas into hot jars, leaving 1-inch
headspace. Add 1/2 teaspoon salt to each pint jar, 1 teaspoon salt to
each quart jar, if desired. Ladle hot cooking liquid or boiling water
over beans or peas, leaving 1-inch headspace. Remove air bubbles.
Adjust two-piece caps. Process pints 1 hour and 15 minutes, quarts 1
hour and 30 minutes at 10 pounds pressure in a steam-pressure canner.

--
Silvar Beitel
(very occasional poster)

In article >,
"Pandora" > wrote:

> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> I would do like this:
> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
> say?
> TIA

What you propose is a very bad idea, Pandora, unless you process your
filled jars (your glass pot) in what is called a steam pressure canner.
Your garbanzo beans (chickpeas) are not of sufficient acidity (having a
low pH number) for safe processing in a boiling water bath.

-->>> It is not safe to boil the filled and sealed jars in a large pot
of boiling water. <<<----

NOW, having said all that, I don't *really* know what method you have
for "sterilizing" (we would call it processing.) I do not know how or
if Italian people do home preserving.

The reliable American source of information for home food preservation
is he http://uga.edu/nchfp. Navigate to the canning section then to
the section on canning vegetables and vegetable products.

If you want to discuss the subject more thoroughly online, the people at
rec.food.preserving are knowledgeable, congenial, generally on-topic,
and will be more than happy to offer information. Discussing it there
will also make the conversation more available to people who lurk there
and not here.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - pot pie
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."

In article
>,
wrote:

> On Mar 18, 5:31 am, "Pandora" > wrote:

> > Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans? I ask
> > you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> > vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need. I would do like
> > this: I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil
> > with some bay leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt. Then I put
> > in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you say?

> > TIA
>
> They are a low-acid food that needs pressure-canning.
>
> This is straight from the Ball Blue Book:
(snip most of the instructions)
> Adjust two-piece caps. Process pints 1 hour and 15 minutes, quarts 1
> hour and 30 minutes at 10 pounds pressure in a steam-pressure canner.
> --
> Silvar Beitel
> (very occasional poster)

That psi is appropriate for altitude to 1000 feet; above 1000 feet, the
psi must be increased (depending on the type of gauge the canner uses,
the number will vary). I know why the BBB only puts that information
in the beginning of the book instead of with each recipe, but it bugs me
anyway. :-/ The National Center for Home Food Preservation
(<http://www.uga.edu/nchfp> ) spells it out with every recipe.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - pot pie
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."

In article >,
"Pandora" > wrote:

> "Kathleen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> > Pandora wrote:
> >
> >> "Pandora" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> . ..
> >>
> >>>Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> >>>I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> >>>vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> >>>I would do like this:
> >>>I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> >>>leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> >>>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ofcourse with some of there liquid. Particularly I would like to know how
> >> much liquid I have to put inside the pot together with chickpeas
> >
> > I myself wouldn't bother, mainly because commercially canned chickpeas are
> > so cheap, even the certified organic ones (I'm guessing this is what you
> > mean by "bio"?).
> >
>
> Yes. But here, the organic ones are not so cheap and I would prefer to do
> them myself (and in grat quantity), also because I could put inside all the
> herbs I want. To give them more taste.

Mirella, it is not safely done unless you process the filled jars (you
call it "sterilizing.") in a steam-pressure canner. If you do not know
what that is, here are some pictures:
<http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ner&btnG=Searc
h+Images&gbv=2> or here is the TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/cojjfy

Here is a link to pictures of boiling water canners:
http://tinyurl.com/dbaknd *These are not* the proper and safe
containers for "sterilizing" your canned chickpeas.

Be safe.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - pot pie
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."

"The Cook" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:31:55 +0100, "Pandora" >
> wrote:
>
>>Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>>I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>>vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>>I would do like this:
>>I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>>leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>>say?
>>TIA
>
>
> Absolutely not! Beans must be pressure canned for 75 minutes for pint
> jars and 90 minutes for quart jars. By the time you have purchased
> the correct equipment, you could pay the difference between organic
> and regular for many cans of beans.
> --
> Susan N.


Thank you Susan. I think I should pay a lot of gas to cook them ))))))
I think it's better I buy them...

--
Cheers
Pandora

> ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Mar 18, 5:31 am, "Pandora" > wrote:
>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>> I would do like this:
>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>> say?
>> TIA
>
> They are a low-acid food that needs pressure-canning.
>
> This is straight from the Ball Blue Book:
>
> Beans of Peas - Dried
>
> 2 1/4 pounds dried beans or peas per quart
> Salt (optional)
> Water
>
> Cover beans or peas with cold water. Let stand 12 to 18 hours in a
> cool place. Drain. Cover beans or peas with cold water by 2 inches
> in a large saucepot. Bring to a boil; boil 30 minutes, stirring
> frequently. Pack hot beans or peas into hot jars, leaving 1-inch
> headspace. Add 1/2 teaspoon salt to each pint jar, 1 teaspoon salt to
> each quart jar, if desired. Ladle hot cooking liquid or boiling water
> over beans or peas, leaving 1-inch headspace. Remove air bubbles.
> Adjust two-piece caps. Process pints 1 hour and 15 minutes, quarts 1
> hour and 30 minutes at 10 pounds pressure in a steam-pressure canner.

Thank you. I think is a good recipe. I save. But I have not the
steam-pressure canner. Do you think I could sterilize as usual in water?

--
Cheers
Pandora

"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> In article >,
> "Pandora" > wrote:
>
>> "Kathleen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>> > Pandora wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Pandora" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> >> . ..
>> >>
>> >>>Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>> >>>I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them
>> >>>in
>> >>>vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>> >>>I would do like this:
>> >>>I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some
>> >>>bay
>> >>>leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>> >>>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ofcourse with some of there liquid. Particularly I would like to know
>> >> how
>> >> much liquid I have to put inside the pot together with chickpeas
>> >
>> > I myself wouldn't bother, mainly because commercially canned chickpeas
>> > are
>> > so cheap, even the certified organic ones (I'm guessing this is what
>> > you
>> > mean by "bio"?).
>> >
>>
>> Yes. But here, the organic ones are not so cheap and I would prefer to do
>> them myself (and in grat quantity), also because I could put inside all
>> the
>> herbs I want. To give them more taste.
>
> Mirella, it is not safely done unless you process the filled jars (you
> call it "sterilizing.") in a steam-pressure canner. If you do not know
> what that is, here are some pictures:
> <http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ner&btnG=Searc
> h+Images&gbv=2> or here is the TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/cojjfy
>
> Here is a link to pictures of boiling water canners:
> http://tinyurl.com/dbaknd *These are not* the proper and safe
> containers for "sterilizing" your canned chickpeas.
>
> Be safe.

Ohhhhhhh! It's an UFO for me DDDDD
Here in Italy we use only water and a normal pan.
BTW Thank you very much for inforamtion.


--
Cheers
Pandora

wrote:
> On Mar 18, 5:31 am, "Pandora" > wrote:
>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>> I would do like this:
>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>> say?
>> TIA
>
> They are a low-acid food that needs pressure-canning.
>
> This is straight from the Ball Blue Book:
>
> Beans of Peas - Dried
>
> 2 1/4 pounds dried beans or peas per quart
> Salt (optional)
> Water
>
> Cover beans or peas with cold water. Let stand 12 to 18 hours in a
> cool place. Drain. Cover beans or peas with cold water by 2 inches
> in a large saucepot. Bring to a boil; boil 30 minutes, stirring
> frequently. Pack hot beans or peas into hot jars, leaving 1-inch
> headspace. Add 1/2 teaspoon salt to each pint jar, 1 teaspoon salt to
> each quart jar, if desired. Ladle hot cooking liquid or boiling water
> over beans or peas, leaving 1-inch headspace. Remove air bubbles.
> Adjust two-piece caps. Process pints 1 hour and 15 minutes, quarts 1
> hour and 30 minutes at 10 pounds pressure in a steam-pressure canner.
>
> --
> Silvar Beitel
> (very occasional poster)


I've done this a few times with pinto beans, except I only parboil the
soaked beans for about 5 minutes instead of 30. The beans are
overcooked and kind of mushy at the end of processing; perfect for bean
soup. (Just add broth and chopped onions, etc.) I may try boiling them
longer next time (it's not like that would hurt the texture), because
they always absorb all the water in the jars during processing, and
maybe cooking them longer will prevent that.

Chickpeas might be different; I don't know.

Bob

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "Pandora" > wrote:
>
>> "Kathleen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>> Pandora wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Pandora" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>>>>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>>>>> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>>>>> I would do like this:
>>>>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>>>>> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>>>>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.
>>>>
>>>> Ofcourse with some of there liquid. Particularly I would like to know how
>>>> much liquid I have to put inside the pot together with chickpeas
>>> I myself wouldn't bother, mainly because commercially canned chickpeas are
>>> so cheap, even the certified organic ones (I'm guessing this is what you
>>> mean by "bio"?).
>>>
>> Yes. But here, the organic ones are not so cheap and I would prefer to do
>> them myself (and in grat quantity), also because I could put inside all the
>> herbs I want. To give them more taste.
>
> Mirella, it is not safely done unless you process the filled jars (you
> call it "sterilizing.") in a steam-pressure canner. If you do not know
> what that is, here are some pictures:
> <http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ner&btnG=Searc
> h+Images&gbv=2> or here is the TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/cojjfy
>
> Here is a link to pictures of boiling water canners:
> http://tinyurl.com/dbaknd *These are not* the proper and safe
> containers for "sterilizing" your canned chickpeas.
>
> Be safe.
>


Pressure canner might be called an "autoclave" in Europe.

Bob

In article >,
"Pandora" > wrote:

> > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> > On Mar 18, 5:31 am, "Pandora" > wrote:
> >> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> >> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> >> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> >> I would do like this:
> >> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> >> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> >> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
> >> say?
> >> TIA
> >
> > They are a low-acid food that needs pressure-canning.
> >
> > This is straight from the Ball Blue Book:
> >
> > Beans of Peas - Dried
> >
> > 2 1/4 pounds dried beans or peas per quart
> > Salt (optional)
> > Water
> >
> > Cover beans or peas with cold water. Let stand 12 to 18 hours in a
> > cool place. Drain. Cover beans or peas with cold water by 2 inches
> > in a large saucepot. Bring to a boil; boil 30 minutes, stirring
> > frequently. Pack hot beans or peas into hot jars, leaving 1-inch
> > headspace. Add 1/2 teaspoon salt to each pint jar, 1 teaspoon salt to
> > each quart jar, if desired. Ladle hot cooking liquid or boiling water
> > over beans or peas, leaving 1-inch headspace. Remove air bubbles.
> > Adjust two-piece caps. Process pints 1 hour and 15 minutes, quarts 1
> > hour and 30 minutes at 10 pounds pressure in a steam-pressure canner.
>
> Thank you. I think is a good recipe. I save. But I have not the
> steam-pressure canner. Do you think I could sterilize as usual in water?

Absolutely not. We've tried to make that clear, Dear Lady. It is not
safe to "sterilize" in boiling water. I know that this is not what you
want to hear but it is what you must know.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - pot pie
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."

In article >,
"Pandora" > wrote:

> "Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Pandora" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Kathleen" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> ...
> >> > Pandora wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Pandora" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> >> . ..
> >> >>
> >> >>>Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> >> >>>I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them
> >> >>>in
> >> >>>vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> >> >>>I would do like this:
> >> >>>I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some
> >> >>>bay
> >> >>>leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> >> >>>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ofcourse with some of there liquid. Particularly I would like to know
> >> >> how
> >> >> much liquid I have to put inside the pot together with chickpeas
> >> >
> >> > I myself wouldn't bother, mainly because commercially canned chickpeas
> >> > are
> >> > so cheap, even the certified organic ones (I'm guessing this is what
> >> > you
> >> > mean by "bio"?).
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yes. But here, the organic ones are not so cheap and I would prefer to do
> >> them myself (and in grat quantity), also because I could put inside all
> >> the
> >> herbs I want. To give them more taste.
> >
> > Mirella, it is not safely done unless you process the filled jars (you
> > call it "sterilizing.") in a steam-pressure canner. If you do not know
> > what that is, here are some pictures:
> > <http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ner&btnG=Searc
> > h+Images&gbv=2> or here is the TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/cojjfy
> >
> > Here is a link to pictures of boiling water canners:
> > http://tinyurl.com/dbaknd *These are not* the proper and safe
> > containers for "sterilizing" your canned chickpeas.
> >
> > Be safe.
>
> Ohhhhhhh! It's an UFO for me DDDDD
> Here in Italy we use only water and a normal pan.
> BTW Thank you very much for inforamtion.

But I'll wager that the only things your prepare for storage like that
are high-acid products: fruits, jams and jellies, pickled relishes. Am
I correct? Do you know anyone who prepares canned vegetables in "water
and a normal pan?" I wager that it is not done and it is for good
reason. Look up information about botulism poisoning and clostridium
botulinum toxin.

Again, Dear Lady, this is not what you what to hear but it is what you
must know.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - pot pie
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."

In article >,
"Pandora" > wrote:

> "The Cook" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> >>Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
> >>say?
> >>TIA
> >
> >
> > Absolutely not! Beans must be pressure canned for 75 minutes for pint
> > jars and 90 minutes for quart jars. By the time you have purchased
> > the correct equipment, you could pay the difference between organic
> > and regular for many cans of beans.
> > --
> > Susan N.

> Thank you Susan. I think I should pay a lot of gas to cook them ))))))
> I think it's better I buy them...

Exactly!! Unless you have the proper equipment for safe processing, you
are better off in the grocery store.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - pot pie
"What you say about someone else says more
about you than it does about the other person."

"zxcvbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> wrote:
> I've done this a few times with pinto beans, except I only parboil the
> soaked beans for about 5 minutes instead of 30. The beans are overcooked
> and kind of mushy at the end of processing; perfect for bean soup. (Just
> add broth and chopped onions, etc.) I may try boiling them longer next
> time (it's not like that would hurt the texture), because they always
> absorb all the water in the jars during processing, and maybe cooking them
> longer will prevent that.
>
> Chickpeas might be different; I don't know.
>
> Bob

Thank you Bob. I will see what to do

--
Cheers
Pandora

"zxcvbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
>
> Pressure canner might be called an "autoclave" in Europe.

ROTFL An autoclave is like a pump to push water, you know...

>
> Bob

"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> In article >,
> "Pandora" > wrote:
> Absolutely not. We've tried to make that clear, Dear Lady. It is not
> safe to "sterilize" in boiling water. I know that this is not what you
> want to hear but it is what you must know.

Yes. But what about all the Italians which steriliz in water?????
They will die all. It will be an hecatomb DDD
BTW thank you

--
Cheers
Pandora

"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> In article >,
> "Pandora" > wrote:
>>
>> Ohhhhhhh! It's an UFO for me DDDDD
>> Here in Italy we use only water and a normal pan.
>> BTW Thank you very much for inforamtion.
>
> But I'll wager that the only things your prepare for storage like that
> are high-acid products: fruits, jams and jellies, pickled relishes. Am
> I correct? Do you know anyone who prepares canned vegetables in "water
> and a normal pan?"

Yes. All the people here make like this. I think we already discuss about
this some years ago...
True is that in many preparations we put vinegar.
I don't know if I have risked some years ago when I have canned "Fagioli
all'uccelletto" (beans in tomato sauce, onions, sage, pepper). I have eaten
them 3 years later and they were sooooooooooooo good. And not mushed....like
just cooked


I wager that it is not done and it is for good
> reason. Look up information about botulism poisoning and clostridium
> botulinum toxin.


I have read about botuline.
>
> Again, Dear Lady, this is not what you what to hear but it is what you
> must know.
>
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> http://web.me.com/barbschaller - pot pie
> "What you say about someone else says more
> about you than it does about the other person."

"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> In article >,
> Exactly!! Unless you have the proper equipment for safe processing, you
> are better off in the grocery store.

Unfortunately I didn't find organic canned in the market. I will see...

--
Cheers and thank you
Pandora

Pandora wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>
>>
>>Pressure canner might be called an "autoclave" in Europe.
>
>
> ROTFL An autoclave is like a pump to push water, you know...
>
>
>>Bob
>
>
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclave

Pandora wrote:
> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> I would do like this:
> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
> say?


I don't see the point. Chick peas are dried legumes that you soak and
then boil to turn them into something edible. So you are taking
something that is naturally preserved, cooking it into a less stable
state. It is not as if they were a very persishable food that has to be
caned for later use.

If I were using any amount of chick peas I would get the dried ones and
cook them in batches as needed. Since I use them only occasionally, I
just buy the occasional can.

"Joseph Littleshoes" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
>
> Pandora wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>>Pressure canner might be called an "autoclave" in Europe.
>>
>>
>> ROTFL An autoclave is like a pump to push water, you know...
>>
>>
>>>Bob
>>
>>
>>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclave
>

I have worked in an hospital, but they called "Sterilizzatore". Don't
know......
Sorry for the ROFTL but the "autoclave" we have in house is the real
"autoclave" for us

--
Cheers
Pandora

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
m...
> Pandora wrote:
>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>> I would do like this:
>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>> say?
>
>
> I don't see the point. Chick peas are dried legumes that you soak and then
> boil to turn them into something edible. So you are taking something that
> is naturally preserved, cooking it into a less stable state. It is not as
> if they were a very persishable food that has to be caned for later use.
>
> If I were using any amount of chick peas I would get the dried ones and
> cook them in batches as needed. Since I use them only occasionally, I just
> buy the occasional can.

I use them quite a lot (and I mean **A ***WHOLE*** LOT**) for soups, salads,
hummus, snacks. I cook up at least a bag of them at a time in my pressure
cooker (NOTE: **NOT** pressure CANNER). I don't bother soaking them, just
cook them for about 25 minutes at 10PSI. I then put them in small bags
(maybe 1 cup or so each?), and the small bags into a larger freezer bag and
into the freezer they go. They thaw quickly in such small quantities. I've
been known to plow through apound of garbanzo beans (chickpeas) in a week or
so :-) Then again, we here in the US typically have much larger freezers
than those I've seen in European homes - and then even again, I haven't been
in all THAT many European homes (maybe ... 30 or so and NONE in Italy,
LOL!). Maybe many more of them have large freezers; I'm making an
acknowledged sweeping generalization from my limited personal observations.
I live alone, and I have a stand-alone freezer as well as a side-by-side
refrigerator/freezer.

If Pandora does indeed decide to can those chickpeas, I hope she follows
Barb's advice to go to the rec.food.preserving newsgroup for
information/advice. I wouldn't dream of trying to can anything other than
jams without serious study and input from knowledgeable sources/folk. WRT
jams, I've been putting them up long enough that I feel like I know what I'm
doing.

TammyM

Dave Smith wrote:
> Pandora wrote:
>
>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them
>> in vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>> I would do like this:
>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some
>> bay leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do
>> you say?
>
>
>
> I don't see the point. Chick peas are dried legumes that you soak and
> then boil to turn them into something edible. So you are taking
> something that is naturally preserved, cooking it into a less stable
> state. It is not as if they were a very persishable food that has to be
> caned for later use.
>
> If I were using any amount of chick peas I would get the dried ones and
> cook them in batches as needed. Since I use them only occasionally, I
> just buy the occasional can.

I prefer the dried to cook in fairly large amounts then marinate in
vinegar and oil, they are primarily used for salads chez soi, but i also
like to boil up a batch for humus.

I prefer the home cooking the dried cicci (garbonzo) beans to the cans
as they seem to me to be better flavored and have a firmer, crunchier
texture, which i like.

A nice appetizer or hors d'oeuvre can be made by placing the cooked
garbonzoes on a cookie sheet or other large flat pan with just a bit of
chicken stock & butter and a copious amount of puréed garlic or garlic
granules, s & p, and baking till the liquid is evaporated. Or simply
marinate in a good vinaigrette, sprinkle with a little chopped parsley,
chervil, shallot, chives and/or fennel & tarragon and serve in raviers

http://www.frenchporcelaine.com/Page...aviersPage.htm

or the more common

http://nnbonnet.free.fr/service-tapas_3-raviers.jpg

Serve as a dip with bread or crackers. Some people will go so far as to
skewer several of them on a toothpick and serve individually but that's
going a bit too far imo.
--
JL

"Joseph Littleshoes" > wrote in message
...
<snip>

> A nice appetizer or hors d'oeuvre can be made by placing the cooked
> garbonzoes on a cookie sheet or other large flat pan with just a bit of
> chicken stock & butter and a copious amount of puréed garlic or garlic
> granules, s & p, and baking till the liquid is evaporated.

<Meg Ryan> YES! YES!!!! YESSSSS!!! YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!! YES! </Meg Ryan>

The flavor/spice variations of JL's method are limited only by one's
imagination. I use olive oil in place of the butter.

<snippage of remainder of JL's post>


TammyM

Pandora > wrote:

> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.

This is not anywhere nearly enough. Botulinum spores will not be
destroyed at 100°C. You need to sterilise at 121°C for at least 3-4
minutes or at 105°C for at least two hours (and even then it would
perhaps be not enough). You need an appropriate pressured device, such
as a pressure canner.

Look up such terms as "conserve casalinghe", "conserve in casa" or
"conserve fatte in casa" together with "sicurezza alimentare" and
"botulismo".

See, for example,

<http://web.mclink.it/MC1579/noframe/...onservarischio
..htm>

<http://web.mclink.it/MC1579/frame/framebotulismo.htm>

<http://www2.regione.veneto.it/videoi...anno%202006/34
/botulino.htm>

<http://www.uniconsum.it/sicurezza-al...li-dell-izsve-
tempo-di-conserve-come-difendersi-dal-botulino.html>

Victor

Pandora wrote:
>
> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> I would do like this:
> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
> say?
> TIA
>
> --
> Cheers
> Pandora


If the ceci are dried, why bother canning them? They will keep for a
long time if wrapped up airtight and kept in a cool place.

Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>> I don't see the point. Chick peas are dried legumes that you soak and
>> then boil to turn them into something edible. So you are taking
>> something that is naturally preserved, cooking it into a less stable
>> state. It is not as if they were a very persishable food that has to
>> be caned for later use.
>>
>> If I were using any amount of chick peas I would get the dried ones
>> and cook them in batches as needed. Since I use them only
>> occasionally, I just buy the occasional can.
>
> I prefer the dried to cook in fairly large amounts then marinate in
> vinegar and oil, they are primarily used for salads chez soi, but i also
> like to boil up a batch for humus.
>
> I prefer the home cooking the dried cicci (garbonzo) beans to the cans
> as they seem to me to be better flavored and have a firmer, crunchier
> texture, which i like.


I like them and would eat them a lot more often except my wife has
allergy issues with legumes and avoids them. Ont he rare occasion that
I go to a salad bar I will pile on the chick peas and and have blue
cheese dressing on them. One of the few things that I use chicks for at
home is the lamb shanks with caramelized onions (my signature <?> dish
listed a the RFC site.

"TammyM" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Pandora wrote:
>>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>>> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>>> I would do like this:
>>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some
>>> bay leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>>> say?
>>
>>
>> I don't see the point. Chick peas are dried legumes that you soak and
>> then boil to turn them into something edible. So you are taking something
>> that is naturally preserved, cooking it into a less stable state. It is
>> not as if they were a very persishable food that has to be caned for
>> later use.
>>
>> If I were using any amount of chick peas I would get the dried ones and
>> cook them in batches as needed. Since I use them only occasionally, I
>> just buy the occasional can.
>
> I use them quite a lot (and I mean **A ***WHOLE*** LOT**) for soups,
> salads, hummus, snacks. I cook up at least a bag of them at a time in my
> pressure cooker (NOTE: **NOT** pressure CANNER). I don't bother soaking
> them, just cook them for about 25 minutes at 10PSI. I then put them in
> small bags (maybe 1 cup or so each?), and the small bags into a larger
> freezer bag and into the freezer they go. They thaw quickly in such small
> quantities.

Ohhhhhhhh, Tammy. This is a very beautiful idea!!!!!!!
Only a question. What is 10 PSI?



I've
> been known to plow through apound of garbanzo beans (chickpeas) in a week
> or so :-) Then again, we here in the US typically have much larger
> freezers than those I've seen in European homes - and then even again, I
> haven't been in all THAT many European homes (maybe ... 30 or so and NONE
> in Italy, LOL!). Maybe many more of them have large freezers; I'm making
> an acknowledged sweeping generalization from my limited personal
> observations. I live alone, and I have a stand-alone freezer as well as a
> side-by-side refrigerator/freezer.

Oh yes! So have I. I have a very large freezer where I put everything and in
a very disorderly way. And then I can't find anything DDDDDDD


Thank you very much Tammy I will do like you say.

--
Cheers
Pandora

"Joseph Littleshoes" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
>> Pandora wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>>> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>>> I would do like this:
>>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some
>>> bay leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>>> say?
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see the point. Chick peas are dried legumes that you soak and
>> then boil to turn them into something edible. So you are taking something
>> that is naturally preserved, cooking it into a less stable state. It is
>> not as if they were a very persishable food that has to be caned for
>> later use.
>>
>> If I were using any amount of chick peas I would get the dried ones and
>> cook them in batches as needed. Since I use them only occasionally, I
>> just buy the occasional can.
>
> I prefer the dried to cook in fairly large amounts then marinate in
> vinegar and oil, they are primarily used for salads chez soi, but i also
> like to boil up a batch for humus.
>
> I prefer the home cooking the dried cicci (garbonzo) beans to the cans as
> they seem to me to be better flavored and have a firmer, crunchier
> texture, which i like.
>
> A nice appetizer or hors d'oeuvre can be made by placing the cooked
> garbonzoes on a cookie sheet or other large flat pan with just a bit of
> chicken stock & butter and a copious amount of puréed garlic or garlic
> granules, s & p, and baking till the liquid is evaporated. Or simply
> marinate in a good vinaigrette, sprinkle with a little chopped parsley,
> chervil, shallot, chives and/or fennel & tarragon and serve in raviers


Nice recipe. I have also tried them with mustard mixed with few olive oil,
lemon and pepper (not cold). They are good.

>
> http://www.frenchporcelaine.com/Page...aviersPage.htm

Very beautiful!!!!
>
> or the more common
>
> http://nnbonnet.free.fr/service-tapas_3-raviers.jpg
>
> Serve as a dip with bread or crackers. Some people will go so far as to
> skewer several of them on a toothpick and serve individually but that's
> going a bit too far imo.


ROTFLLLLL!!!!

--
Cheers
Pandora
> --
> JL
>

Thank you Viktor. I will read with attention.

--
Cheers
Pandora

----------------------
"Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
.. .
> Pandora > wrote:
>
>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour.
>
> This is not anywhere nearly enough. Botulinum spores will not be
> destroyed at 100°C. You need to sterilise at 121°C for at least 3-4
> minutes or at 105°C for at least two hours (and even then it would
> perhaps be not enough). You need an appropriate pressured device, such
> as a pressure canner.
>
> Look up such terms as "conserve casalinghe", "conserve in casa" or
> "conserve fatte in casa" together with "sicurezza alimentare" and
> "botulismo".
>
> See, for example,
>
> <http://web.mclink.it/MC1579/noframe/...onservarischio
> .htm>
>
> <http://web.mclink.it/MC1579/frame/framebotulismo.htm>
>
> <http://www2.regione.veneto.it/videoi...anno%202006/34
> /botulino.htm>
>
> <http://www.uniconsum.it/sicurezza-al...li-dell-izsve-
> tempo-di-conserve-come-difendersi-dal-botulino.html>
>
> Victor

"Arri London" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
>
> Pandora wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
>> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
>> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
>> I would do like this:
>> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
>> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
>> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
>> say?
>> TIA
>>
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Pandora
>
>
> If the ceci are dried, why bother canning them? They will keep for a
> long time if wrapped up airtight and kept in a cool place.

Yes. But I should first cook them ))
I would like a ready meal....

--
Cheers
Pandora

"Dave Smith" > ha scritto nel messaggio
m...
> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
> I like them and would eat them a lot more often except my wife has allergy
> issues with legumes and avoids them. Ont he rare occasion that I go to a
> salad bar I will pile on the chick peas and and have blue cheese dressing
> on them. One of the few things that I use chicks for at home is the lamb
> shanks with caramelized onions (my signature <?> dish listed a the RFC
> site.

I will see. I think I would like the recipe.
Thank you

--
Cheers
Pandora

Pandora wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> m...
>> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>> I like them and would eat them a lot more often except my wife has allergy
>> issues with legumes and avoids them. Ont he rare occasion that I go to a
>> salad bar I will pile on the chick peas and and have blue cheese dressing
>> on them. One of the few things that I use chicks for at home is the lamb
>> shanks with caramelized onions (my signature <?> dish listed a the RFC
>> site.
>
> I will see. I think I would like the recipe.
> Thank you
>

It is posted under the RFC signature dishes, but I have copy and pasted
it below. I can tell you that it is delicious. Everyone I haev cooked it
for has raved over it and, and a few of the regulars here tried it and
liked it.

http://www.recfoodcooking.com/sigs/D...%20Onions.html


Shanks:
1 Tbsp. Vegetable oil
5 lamb shanks
2 onions chopped
3 cloves garlic chopped
1 1/2 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp. Paprika
1/2 tsp. Each salt, pepper and turmeric
Pinch hot pepper flakes
4 cups beef stock
1 can (19 oz. 540 ml) chopped tomatoes
3 large carrots
4 zucchini thickly sliced
1 can (19 oz. 340 ml) chick peas

Caramelized onions:
2 Tblsp. Butter
4 onions sliced
1 Tblsp. granulated sugar
1/2 Tsp ground ginger
3/4 Tsp, cinnamon
1/4 Tsp. Turmeric
1/2 cup raisins
1/4 cup slivered almonds

In a large saucepan, heat oil over medium high heat and brown lamb
shanks on all sides in batches. Transfer to a plate and drain off fat in
pan.. Reduce heat to medium and add onions, garlic, cinnamon, paprika,
hot pepper flakes, turmeric, stirring often for 5 minutes until soft.

Return shanks to pot , add tomatoes and beef stock and simmer for about
1 1/2 hours until lamb is just tender. (This part can be done in a 325 F
oven)

Increase heat to medium, add carrots, zucchini and chick peas and cook
covered for 20 minutes or until lamb and vegetables are tender.

Strain and set meat and vegetables aside. Bring reserved liquid to a
boil for about 15 minutes to reduce by half. Return meat and vegetables
to liquid to heat through,

Caramelized onions:
Meanwhile.. In a large heavy skillet, melt butter and add onions, sugar,
cinnamon, ginger, salt, pepper and turmeric. Cover and stir occasionally
for 10 minutes. Add the raisins and cook (covered) for another 10
minutes. Uncover and cook for another 5 until onions are golden and no
liquid remains.

To serve, ladle stew into warmed bowls, top with caramelized onions and
sprinkle with slivered almonds.

Pandora wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> >
> >
> > Pandora wrote:
> >>
> >> Has anyone of you ever tried to can dried chickpeas or beans?
> >> I ask you because I would like to buy some bio chickpeas and put them in
> >> vitro to have in my sideboard and use when I need.
> >> I would do like this:
> >> I leave chickpeas in water for about one night. Then I boil with some bay
> >> leaves and garlic till tender. Few salt.
> >> Then I put in glass pot and then sterilize for about 1 hour. What do you
> >> say?
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers
> >> Pandora
> >
> >
> > If the ceci are dried, why bother canning them? They will keep for a
> > long time if wrapped up airtight and kept in a cool place.
>
> Yes. But I should first cook them ))
> I would like a ready meal....
>
>

Fair enough. Do you have room in a freezer? Cook them and package them
airtight for freezing. Canning done badly could cause food poisoning, as
others have mentioned.

Pandora wrote:
> "Joseph Littleshoes" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>
>>
>>Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>>Pandora wrote:
>>>
>>
>>Serve as a dip with bread or crackers. Some people will go so far as to
>>skewer several of them on a toothpick and serve individually but that's
>>going a bit too far imo.
>
>
>
> ROTFLLLLL!!!!

IT is rather silly isn't it? i have seen this only once and that with
those sort of fancy toothpicks with the little decorative colored fringe
on one end.

I simply cant imagine taking the time to carefully load a toothpick with
4 or 5 individual garbonzoes and then set in a decorative container, oy!

I have contemplated using cooked & mashed egg yolk, ala deviled eggs, to
make a binding for the garbonzoes so they are easier to scoop up on to a
pit of bread or cracker but every time i have seriously thought of
doing so my mind immediately went to humus and i just made that instead.
--
JL

>