Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?

Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and reduce.

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:16:03 +0000, Corey Richardson
> wrote:

>Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?
>
>Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and reduce.

And another thought - red or white wine?

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:16:03 +0000, Corey Richardson
> wrote:

>Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?
>
>Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and reduce.

Here's a good recipe from Heston Blumenthal.


HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
Serves 4

50ml groundnut (peanut) oil
50g unsalted butter
100g onion, peeled and finely chopped
2 cloves of garlic, peeled and minced
1 star anise
150g carrot, finely chopped
4 sticks celery, peeled (with a peeler) and finely chopped
300g best-quality minced beef, not too lean (a mix of beef, veal
and/or pork could also be used)
Salt and freshly ground black pepper
150ml whole milk
Nutmeg (whole, for grating)
150ml dry white wine
375g tinned tomatoes, with juice
500g dried tagliatelle

Preheat the oven to its lowest setting (110C/ 225F/Gas Mark ). Put the
oil and butter in a large casserole with a lid and add the onion,
garlic and star anise.

Cook over a low heat for 30 minutes. Add the chopped carrots and
continue cooking for another 20 minutes, then add the celery and cook
for a further couple of minutes. Tip in the mince and press down on it
gently, so it is integrated into the vegetables, and cook.

Generously season the meat mixture and add the milk. Grate over some
nutmeg and cook gently for at least 30 minutes, until the milk has
just about disappeared.

Add the white wine and tomatoes, stir through, then place in the oven,
with the lid of the casserole slightly ajar. Cook for at least six
hours. It probably won't be necessary, but if the meat starts to look
dry, add a drop of water.

After cooking, some fat will have split and risen to the surface, but
don't worry about that. When the sauce has finished cooking, it should
be rich and moist.

Check for seasoning -be generous with the freshly ground black pepper.
Serve with the pasta, cooked according to packet instructions, and
some freshly grated parmigiano.

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:13:24 +0000, Steve > wrote:

>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:16:03 +0000, Corey Richardson
> wrote:
>
>>Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?
>>
>>Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and reduce.
>
>Here's a good recipe from Heston Blumenthal.
>
>
>HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
>Serves 4
>
>1 star anise

Star anise in Bolognese!? No thanks - I think I'll give Heston and his
Bolognese sauce a miss, thank you.

On Mar 21, 11:22*am, Corey Richardson
> wrote:
>
> >HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
> >Serves 4
>
> >1 star anise
>
> Star anise in Bolognese!? No thanks - I think I'll give Heston and his
> Bolognese sauce a miss, thank you.

Oh, I don't know, fennel/fennel seed is pretty common in Italian
cooking, and this is just one star anise, which ought to be an easy
way to get a similar flavor addition. I haven't done it myself but
I'll keep it in mind for the next time I do my pork shoulder tomato
base sauce. -aem

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

>On Mar 21, 11:22*am, Corey Richardson
> wrote:
>>
>> >HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
>> >Serves 4
>>
>> >1 star anise
>>
>> Star anise in Bolognese!? No thanks - I think I'll give Heston and his
>> Bolognese sauce a miss, thank you.
>
>Oh, I don't know, fennel/fennel seed is pretty common in Italian
>cooking, and this is just one star anise, which ought to be an easy
>way to get a similar flavor addition.

Yes, but it's not common in Bolognese, is it?

Steve wrote on Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:13:24 +0000:

>> Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?
>>
>> Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and
>> reduce.

> Here's a good recipe from Heston Blumenthal.

> HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
> Serves 4

> 50ml groundnut (peanut) oil
> 50g unsalted butter
> 100g onion, peeled and finely chopped
> 2 cloves of garlic, peeled and minced
> 1 star anise
> 150g carrot, finely chopped
> 4 sticks celery, peeled (with a peeler) and finely chopped
> 300g best-quality minced beef, not too lean (a mix of beef,
> veal and/or pork could also be used)
> Salt and freshly ground black pepper
> 150ml whole milk
> Nutmeg (whole, for grating)
> 150ml dry white wine
> 375g tinned tomatoes, with juice
> 500g dried tagliatelle

> Preheat the oven to its lowest setting (110C/ 225F/Gas Mark ).
> Put the oil and butter in a large casserole with a lid and add
> the onion, garlic and star anise.

> Cook over a low heat for 30 minutes. Add the chopped carrots
> and continue cooking for another 20 minutes, then add the
> celery and cook for a further couple of minutes. Tip in the
> mince and press down on it gently, so it is integrated into
> the vegetables, and cook.

> Generously season the meat mixture and add the milk. Grate
> over some nutmeg and cook gently for at least 30 minutes,
> until the milk has just about disappeared.

> Add the white wine and tomatoes, stir through, then place in
> the oven, with the lid of the casserole slightly ajar. Cook
> for at least six hours. It probably won't be necessary, but if
> the meat starts to look dry, add a drop of water.

> After cooking, some fat will have split and risen to the
> surface, but don't worry about that. When the sauce has
> finished cooking, it should be rich and moist.

The recipe is fairly close to the one I use but remember many say that
Bolognese ragu is "a meat sauce with tomato not the reverse". My recipe
uses 4 tabs tomato paste and no canned tomatoes. I'd forget the nutmeg
and anise but would use oregano. You can combine other meats in the
mixture, including bacon and pepperoni sausage.

I don't know if I'd cook for six hours, two suffices, IMO. In my
experience the ragu should be inspected every half hour or so and, if it
looks dry, add 1/4 cup of milk. It looks a bit strange when added but it
is incorporated in a few minutes and adds to the flavor.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:53:34 -0400, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

>The recipe is fairly close to the one I use but remember many say that
>Bolognese ragu is "a meat sauce with tomato not the reverse". My recipe
>uses 4 tabs tomato paste and no canned tomatoes. I'd forget the nutmeg
>and anise but would use oregano. You can combine other meats in the
>mixture, including bacon and pepperoni sausage.

That's pretty much what I use, except I use passata and no pepperoni.
Pepperoni sounds good though - I may try that next time. I always use
white wine too.

>I don't know if I'd cook for six hours, two suffices, IMO. In my
>experience the ragu should be inspected every half hour or so and, if it
>looks dry, add 1/4 cup of milk. It looks a bit strange when added but it
>is incorporated in a few minutes and adds to the flavor.

I find that the addition of milk gives it a smoother 'mouth feel'.

On Mar 21, 6:16*pm, Corey Richardson
> wrote:
> Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?
>
> Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and reduce.

This is from Accademia Italiana della Cucina:

400 grams fresh tagliatelle or fettucine
300 grams minced beef - The recommended cut is thin flank aka skirt
(finta cartella in Italian) but any good quality mince will do.
150 grams unsmoked pancetta — minced very finely
50 grams carrot — finely chopped or minced
50 grams celery — finely chopped or minced
50 grams onion — finely chopped or minced
30 grams triple concentrated tomato puree (if using double
concentrated, increase the quantity by about a 1/3)
1/2 glass red or white wine
180 milliliters fresh milk
olive oil
salt and pepper

* Fry the pancetta gently in a little olive oil until it starts to
release its fat. Be careful not to burn.
* Add the vegetables and fry until the onions are transparent,
stirring from time to time.
* Add the beef and cook until it is lightly browned. When it
starts to make popping noises, it’s done.
* Add the tomato puree and the wine and mix well.
* Add the milk, little by little until it is completely absorbed.
* Season with salt and pepper, cover and cook very slowly for 3 to
4 hours.
* Stir occasionally and if it looks like drying out, add a little
more milk.
* Serve with Fettuccine or Tagliatelle (NOT Spaghetti!)
* Serve with Parmesan cheese on the side.

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:16:03 +0000, Corey Richardson
> > wrote:
>
>>Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?
>>
>>Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and reduce.
>
> Here's a good recipe from Heston Blumenthal.
>
>
> HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
> Serves 4
>
> 50ml groundnut (peanut) oil
> 50g unsalted butter
> 100g onion, peeled and finely chopped
> 2 cloves of garlic, peeled and minced
> 1 star anise
> 150g carrot, finely chopped
> 4 sticks celery, peeled (with a peeler) and finely chopped
> 300g best-quality minced beef, not too lean (a mix of beef, veal
> and/or pork could also be used)
> Salt and freshly ground black pepper
> 150ml whole milk
> Nutmeg (whole, for grating)
> 150ml dry white wine
> 375g tinned tomatoes, with juice
> 500g dried tagliatelle
>
> Preheat the oven to its lowest setting (110C/ 225F/Gas Mark ). Put the
> oil and butter in a large casserole with a lid and add the onion,
> garlic and star anise.
>
> Cook over a low heat for 30 minutes. Add the chopped carrots and
> continue cooking for another 20 minutes, then add the celery and cook
> for a further couple of minutes. Tip in the mince and press down on it
> gently, so it is integrated into the vegetables, and cook.
>
> Generously season the meat mixture and add the milk. Grate over some
> nutmeg and cook gently for at least 30 minutes, until the milk has
> just about disappeared.
>
> Add the white wine and tomatoes, stir through, then place in the oven,
> with the lid of the casserole slightly ajar. Cook for at least six
> hours. It probably won't be necessary, but if the meat starts to look
> dry, add a drop of water.
>
> After cooking, some fat will have split and risen to the surface, but
> don't worry about that. When the sauce has finished cooking, it should
> be rich and moist.
>
> Check for seasoning -be generous with the freshly ground black pepper.
> Serve with the pasta, cooked according to packet instructions, and
> some freshly grated parmigiano.

From Marcella Hazan by memory: after browning the vegetables, add beef and
brown very lightly, then add milk and cook down almost completely, and then
add tomatoes and simmer very slowly.

Ed.

"Theron" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:16:03 +0000, Corey Richardson
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Milk, or no milk? And if milk, when do _you_ add it?
>>>
>>>Milk or cream for me, and I add right at the beginning and reduce.
>>
>> Here's a good recipe from Heston Blumenthal.
>>
>>
>> HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
>> Serves 4
>>
>> 50ml groundnut (peanut) oil
>> 50g unsalted butter
>> 100g onion, peeled and finely chopped
>> 2 cloves of garlic, peeled and minced
>> 1 star anise
>> 150g carrot, finely chopped
>> 4 sticks celery, peeled (with a peeler) and finely chopped
>> 300g best-quality minced beef, not too lean (a mix of beef, veal
>> and/or pork could also be used)
>> Salt and freshly ground black pepper
>> 150ml whole milk
>> Nutmeg (whole, for grating)
>> 150ml dry white wine
>> 375g tinned tomatoes, with juice
>> 500g dried tagliatelle
>>
>> Preheat the oven to its lowest setting (110C/ 225F/Gas Mark ). Put the
>> oil and butter in a large casserole with a lid and add the onion,
>> garlic and star anise.
>>
>> Cook over a low heat for 30 minutes. Add the chopped carrots and
>> continue cooking for another 20 minutes, then add the celery and cook
>> for a further couple of minutes. Tip in the mince and press down on it
>> gently, so it is integrated into the vegetables, and cook.
>>
>> Generously season the meat mixture and add the milk. Grate over some
>> nutmeg and cook gently for at least 30 minutes, until the milk has
>> just about disappeared.
>>
>> Add the white wine and tomatoes, stir through, then place in the oven,
>> with the lid of the casserole slightly ajar. Cook for at least six
>> hours. It probably won't be necessary, but if the meat starts to look
>> dry, add a drop of water.
>>
>> After cooking, some fat will have split and risen to the surface, but
>> don't worry about that. When the sauce has finished cooking, it should
>> be rich and moist.
>>
>> Check for seasoning -be generous with the freshly ground black pepper.
>> Serve with the pasta, cooked according to packet instructions, and
>> some freshly grated parmigiano.
>
> From Marcella Hazan by memory: after browning the vegetables, add beef and
> brown very lightly, then add milk and cook down almost completely, and
> then add tomatoes and simmer very slowly.
>
> Ed.
>
>
The memory is fading. Brown vegetables, lightly brown beef, add wine and
cook down. Then add milk and cook down
followed by tomato. Simmer at a slight ebullition for 4 hours. Here's
Marcella's recipe.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/...11/2214501.htm

Ed

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

> On Mar 21, 11:22*am, Corey Richardson
> > wrote:
>>
>>>HESTON'S BOLOGNESE SAUCE
>>>Serves 4
>>
>>>1 star anise
>>
>> Star anise in Bolognese!? No thanks - I think I'll give Heston and his
>> Bolognese sauce a miss, thank you.
>
> Oh, I don't know, fennel/fennel seed is pretty common in Italian
> cooking, and this is just one star anise, which ought to be an easy
> way to get a similar flavor addition. I haven't done it myself but
> I'll keep it in mind for the next time I do my pork shoulder tomato
> base sauce. -aem

i'm not sure i'd use the star anise either, but i did think of it being
like fennel as well.

your pal,
blake