"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>

>
> People are so ****ing jealous that anyone else - *especially* a parent
> or pregnant woman - gets *any* benefit or courtesy, however minor,
> even one that is so "no skin off my nose" as half dozen parking
> places, that it really shows how perfectly idiotic they are.


Congratulations on your good health.

You are correct that a business can offer whatever conveniences and
incentives as they desire. You are, however, wrong about "no skin off my
nose" though. By assigning those spaces to a chosen few, others that have
needs are forced to walk just a little further. I'm talking about the
waitress that was on her feet for hours, the mailman that walked his route,
the arthritic on a cold day that needs some groceries, the machinist that
stood at his mill all day, the teacher in front of the class, the nurse
caring for her patients.

I've taken my children to the store for their entire childhood and never had
a problem parking any place. After two knee surgeries, arthritis, a bruised
bone, and torn meniscus I try to keep my walking to a painful minimum after
a day at work where I had to do a lot of walking to earn a living. So, it
is a bit of skin of some of our noses. Get back to me when you are in your
60's and see if your idea changes.

Well, I did not get up on a soapbox because it is painful to do so and
please excuse me while I go take another 800 mg ibuprofen.

"brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>
> Doctors already give their MD license number on the application, always
> have. I doubt CT will succeed in such stupidity, no politician is going
> to jeapardize their political career second guessing MDs... I mean most
> small town politicians only have a High School diploma, maybe only a GED.
> Handicap stickers aren't permanent anyway.... initially doctors usually
> give a six month provisional and thereafter the term in most states is for
> three years, and can be withdrawn at any time. I've no idea why anyone
> would want to deny someone handicapped parking, that just demonstrates
> extreme ignorance, I mean like the most extreme ignorance possible, we're
> talkin' Pinhead City here.

CT issues permits with an expiration date (determined by the doctor) or a
permanent permit. At one time they gave you two. The problem is not
denial, but abuse. When granny passes on, the kids grab the placard to use
instead of turning it back in. Lack of control is the problem and that
leads to abuse. I've never seen anyone actually check the names on the
placard. They are numbered and have to be signed. The state though, has no
idea how many are still valid and how many are expired but still used.


> even the Walmart Superstore near where I live must have 2,000 parking
> spots but hasn't more then 25 handicapped spots. And the vast majority
> who have the tags and are legitimately handicapped don't park in the
> designated spots anyway... so wtf are you talking about cracking down,
> what's to crack down,

Our Wal Mart has about 12 spots. At certain times of the day, every one is
used. Our Price Chopper has 10 or 12 and same deal. All are filled. Stop &
Shop usually has a couple open at the south entrance, the north is always
filled at busy times. So, either our area has a larger percentage of
elderly population or the state has more abusers of the system.

On Wed 01 Apr 2009 08:36:08p, Ed Pawlowski told us...

>
> "Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>>
>
>>
>> People are so ****ing jealous that anyone else - *especially* a parent
>> or pregnant woman - gets *any* benefit or courtesy, however minor,
>> even one that is so "no skin off my nose" as half dozen parking
>> places, that it really shows how perfectly idiotic they are.
>
>
> Congratulations on your good health.
>
> You are correct that a business can offer whatever conveniences and
> incentives as they desire. You are, however, wrong about "no skin off
> my nose" though. By assigning those spaces to a chosen few, others that
> have needs are forced to walk just a little further. I'm talking about
> the waitress that was on her feet for hours, the mailman that walked his
> route, the arthritic on a cold day that needs some groceries, the
> machinist that stood at his mill all day, the teacher in front of the
> class, the nurse caring for her patients.
>
> I've taken my children to the store for their entire childhood and never
> had a problem parking any place. After two knee surgeries, arthritis, a
> bruised bone, and torn meniscus I try to keep my walking to a painful
> minimum after a day at work where I had to do a lot of walking to earn a
> living. So, it is a bit of skin of some of our noses. Get back to me
> when you are in your 60's and see if your idea changes.
>
> Well, I did not get up on a soapbox because it is painful to do so and
> please excuse me while I go take another 800 mg ibuprofen.

Very well expressed, Ed.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

On Wed 01 Apr 2009 08:40:05p, Ed Pawlowski told us...

>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>
>> Doctors already give their MD license number on the application, always
>> have. I doubt CT will succeed in such stupidity, no politician is
>> going to jeapardize their political career second guessing MDs... I
>> mean most small town politicians only have a High School diploma, maybe
>> only a GED. Handicap stickers aren't permanent anyway.... initially
>> doctors usually give a six month provisional and thereafter the term in
>> most states is for three years, and can be withdrawn at any time. I've
>> no idea why anyone would want to deny someone handicapped parking, that
>> just demonstrates extreme ignorance, I mean like the most extreme
>> ignorance possible, we're talkin' Pinhead City here.
>
> CT issues permits with an expiration date (determined by the doctor) or
> a permanent permit. At one time they gave you two. The problem is not
> denial, but abuse. When granny passes on, the kids grab the placard to
> use instead of turning it back in. Lack of control is the problem and
> that leads to abuse. I've never seen anyone actually check the names
> on the placard. They are numbered and have to be signed. The state
> though, has no idea how many are still valid and how many are expired
> but still used.
>
>
>> even the Walmart Superstore near where I live must have 2,000 parking
>> spots but hasn't more then 25 handicapped spots. And the vast
>> majority who have the tags and are legitimately handicapped don't park
>> in the designated spots anyway... so wtf are you talking about cracking
>> down, what's to crack down,
>
> Our Wal Mart has about 12 spots. At certain times of the day, every one
> is used. Our Price Chopper has 10 or 12 and same deal. All are filled.
> Stop & Shop usually has a couple open at the south entrance, the north
> is always filled at busy times. So, either our area has a larger
> percentage of elderly population or the state has more abusers of the
> system.

I have seen what appeared to be abuse many times, yet one can't judge a
younger person who doesn't appear to have a disability when, in fact, there
may be one, visible or not. I would agree, however, that there may also be
significant abuse.

Living in Arizona where there are many elderly retirees and temporary
winter residence, also elderly, we have an inordinate number of disability
parking spaces. I can't count the number of different out of state
disability placards hanging in car windows. In many instances they are all
filled, particularly during the winter season.

My partner, David, and I both have disability license plates obtained for
legitimate reasons. Often we don't park in the disability spaces,
depending on how we feel or what our mission is at any given store. If
we're not feeling up to walking a long distance, or if we're anticipating a
heavy cart or large item to take from store to car, we do use them.
Personally, I think we use them sensibly. We did not request them from our
doctor. It was the doctor who recommnended that we have them.

As far as the spaces designated for pregnant women, I personally feel that
they should request a temporary disability placard from their doctor. They
would have no problem obtaining one. I see absolutely no reason for
specific spaces to be disgnated for that use.

As to the spaces designated for women with children in tow...phooey!!!
When I was growing up my mother almost always parked a good distance away
from the stores and I walked with her obediently. If a parent cannot
control their child, then they don't belong there.

The lack of parental discipline and training is utterly rediculous today.
These parents reap what they sow. They need to learn to deal with it.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> And may you be reincarnated in your next life as the babysitter who
> has to take care of them while I go shopping.

<laugh> Would be my pleasure. I happen to like children.
>
> Never had kids, never wanted kids, and I do my best to avoid them at
> any opportunity.
>
Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?

I think it's safe to say that you're in the minority when it comes to
not wanting kids - just look at the world population. And IMHO, getting
annoyed about a few parking spaces offered to pregnant Moms and/or
parents with children by the various stores/supermarkets is only going
to raise your blood pressure - it's not going to make the
stores 'reallocate' them. As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is indeed
an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

On Wed 01 Apr 2009 10:32:10p, ChattyCathy told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> And may you be reincarnated in your next life as the babysitter who
>> has to take care of them while I go shopping.
>
> <laugh> Would be my pleasure. I happen to like children.
>>
>> Never had kids, never wanted kids, and I do my best to avoid them at
>> any opportunity.
>>
> Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
> same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?

That has nothing to do with this topic. My parents wanted more children
but were unable to have more. Had they had more, I'm quite sure they would
have been as well disciplined as I was and no "mother with children" spaces
would be required, nor would other shoppers have a problem with their or my
presence.

There is serious parental negligence in discipline and training today, and
for that, everone else suffers. It's hardly my fault if they cannot
control their kids. If I misbehaved in public, I was quickly whisked away
and displined in one way or another. I can assure you it rarely happened.
I had great parents and they knew what they were doing.

> I think it's safe to say that you're in the minority when it comes to
> not wanting kids - just look at the world population. And IMHO, getting
> annoyed about a few parking spaces offered to pregnant Moms and/or
> parents with children by the various stores/supermarkets is only going
> to raise your blood pressure - it's not going to make the
> stores 'reallocate' them. As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
> thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is indeed
> an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.

I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it. At
the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have nothing against
a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I would consider their
pregnancy to be a temporary disability. I suggest that that they should
obtain a temporary disability placard and vie for the legal legitimate
disability spaces like anyone else that's disabled. I still see absolutely
no reason for specificd spaces dedicated for this purpose.

I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to park
beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get to the
store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces, everyone
needing them would have equal opportunity.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

"ChattyCathy" > wrote in message
...
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> And may you be reincarnated in your next life as the babysitter who
>> has to take care of them while I go shopping.
>
> <laugh> Would be my pleasure. I happen to like children.
>>
>> Never had kids, never wanted kids, and I do my best to avoid them at
>> any opportunity.
>>
> Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
> same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?
>
> I think it's safe to say that you're in the minority when it comes to
> not wanting kids - just look at the world population. And IMHO, getting
> annoyed about a few parking spaces offered to pregnant Moms and/or
> parents with children by the various stores/supermarkets is only going
> to raise your blood pressure - it's not going to make the
> stores 'reallocate' them. As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
> thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is indeed
> an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.
> --
> Cheers
> Chatty Cathy

Exactly. Those designated parking spots have nothing at all to do with
child safety or looking out for the health and well-being of mom-to-be. As
was pointed out by another poster earlier, it's all about target
marketing--don't fool yourself if you think there is any other reason.
Who's going to spend more on groceries in a year? Older single male or mom
with three growing kids and a husband? I'm not a mom to three kids (just
one infant), but if I were and I had to choose between store A with a cushy
parking spot up front or store B where I may have to walk farther, in
inclement weather, with three kids in tow, uphill both ways, store A gets my
business hands down (prices being more or less equal). Stork parking at
Babies R Us? Duh. Which customer is spending the most money there? The
soon to be new mom that needs the crib, the stroller, the car seat, the
diaper stockpile--all for a total of hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
It's a no brainer. I would (and did) gladly spend a little more money there
for the convenience than fighting the parking lots at Target for big bulky
purchases. I have seen the mommy parking at one local grocery store here in
the past, but I don't shop there anymore so I've never used it. I am
curious to know if the spots are any wider than regular non-handicapped
spots. Nothing is more frustrating than coming back to your car with an
infant seat in tow and having some jackass parked so close you can't get
your door open wide enough to get the baby seat in. It's happened to me
more than enough times to be far more aggravating than having to walk an
extra lazyass 20 feet into the store. Sure, you may have left *me* enough
space to get in, but what am I supposed to do with the baby? Leave her on
the ground behind your vehicle while I back out far enough to get my
passenger door open? Wait for you to lollygag back to your car and move
it? You definitely deserved the door ding I gave you.

Jinx

On Thu 02 Apr 2009 12:10:13a, Mark Thorson told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to
park
>> beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get to the
>> store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces, everyone
>> needing them would have equal opportunity.
>
> Not to mention those of us who have gout
> on rare occasions. Ouch, ouch, ouch, just to hobble
> past these breeders. And you know what? The breeders
> are usually the dumb-as-a-cluck type. :-) :-)
>

Yes, Mark, we share the same view. Sadly, it's no laughing matter.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to park
> beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get to the
> store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces, everyone
> needing them would have equal opportunity.

Not to mention those of us who have gout
on rare occasions. Ouch, ouch, ouch, just to hobble
past these breeders. And you know what? The breeders
are usually the dumb-as-a-cluck type. :-) :-)

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Wed 01 Apr 2009 10:32:10p, ChattyCathy told us...

>>>
>> Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
>> same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?
>
> That has nothing to do with this topic. My parents wanted more
> children but were unable to have more. Had they had more, I'm quite
> sure they would have been as well disciplined as I was and no "mother
> with children" spaces would be required, nor would other shoppers
> have a problem with their or my presence.

Ahem. If this has nothing to do with the topic, why did you bother to
tell me how you feel about it?
>
> There is serious parental negligence in discipline and training today,
> and
> for that, everone else suffers. It's hardly my fault if they cannot
> control their kids. If I misbehaved in public, I was quickly whisked
> away
> and displined in one way or another. I can assure you it rarely
> happened. I had great parents and they knew what they were doing.

Sounds to me like are you intimating that *all* the other parents out
there these days are not as good as yours. I discipline my children
when in public too. Just because I have children doesn't make me think
they can do as they please and cause a disturbance either. In fact, we
all but stopped dining out anywhere until our kidlette was old enough
to 'behave herself' and not annoy the other restaurant patrons. Same
goes when I take her shopping with me. If she doesn't behave herself in
the supermarket she hears all about it (which is not that often, but it
has happened).

>
>> I think it's safe to say that you're in the minority when it comes to
>> not wanting kids - just look at the world population. And IMHO,
>> getting annoyed about a few parking spaces offered to pregnant Moms
>> and/or parents with children by the various stores/supermarkets is
>> only going to raise your blood pressure - it's not going to make the
>> stores 'reallocate' them. As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
>> thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is
>> indeed an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.
>
> I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it.
> At
> the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have nothing
> against a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I would
> consider their
> pregnancy to be a temporary disability.

Funny way of looking at it, IMHO but if that's your take on it, so be
it.

> I suggest that that they
> should obtain a temporary disability placard and vie for the legal
> legitimate
> disability spaces like anyone else that's disabled. I still see
> absolutely no reason for specificd spaces dedicated for this purpose.

Somehow, I don't think I needed to have a placard when I was 8 months
pregnant. It was pretty obvious to most onlookers... Anyway, as it is
biologically impossible for you to ever be in the same situation, I
think we'll have to agree to disagree about this.

Heh. I remember getting pulled over by a traffic cop when I was heavily
pregnant with the kidlette. (They do that periodically here to check if
your car is licensed and that you have a valid drivers license).
Anyway... the cop asked for my drivers license, but I had left my
handbag (purse?) in the trunk of the car and my license was in it. I
told him this and started to unfasten my seatbelt and attempt to
wriggle out of my seat. At this point he was close enough to see my
condition through the window. He just smiled at me and said, "It's OK,
lady. Not to worry. Good luck with the new baby". Now I suppose you
think that's 'favoritism' too?
>
> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to
> park beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get
> to the store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces,
> everyone needing them would have equal opportunity.

I dunno where you shop, but where I shop the pregnancy spaces are
usually close to the Baby-R-Us type of stores (right next to the
disabled parking spaces).

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

"ChattyCathy" > wrote in message
> As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
> thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is indeed
> an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.

Maybe not. I sometimes go to a store that is my second choice for food
selection, but they have better parking than the one with the special
spaces. Business lost.

"Jinx Minx" > wrote in message
>
> Exactly. Those designated parking spots have nothing at all to do with
> child safety or looking out for the health and well-being of mom-to-be.
> As was pointed out by another poster earlier, it's all about target
> marketing--don't fool yourself if you think there is any other reason.
> Who's going to spend more on groceries in a year? Older single male or
> mom with three growing kids and a husband?

Which is more likely to buy the high profit steaks and prepared foods and
six pack of high priced specialty beer?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> "ChattyCathy" > wrote in message
>> As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
>> thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is
>> indeed an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.
>
> Maybe not.

Well, I can see you wouldn't be interested in the 'pregnant women'
parking spaces, being a guy an' all... ;-)

But seriously, I am fairly sure these stores don't just allocate parking
spaces for pregnant women and/or parents with children because they
are 'nice people'. IMO, they do it because it obviously benefits their
profits in some way.

> I sometimes go to a store that is my second choice for
> food selection, but they have better parking than the one with the
> special spaces. Business lost.

Better parking? How so?
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> "Jinx Minx" > wrote in message
>>
>> Exactly. Those designated parking spots have nothing at all to do
>> with child safety or looking out for the health and well-being of
>> mom-to-be. As was pointed out by another poster earlier, it's all
>> about target marketing--don't fool yourself if you think there is any
>> other reason.
>> Who's going to spend more on groceries in a year? Older single male
>> or mom with three growing kids and a husband?
>
> Which is more likely to buy the high profit steaks and prepared foods
> and six pack of high priced specialty beer?

And why are they 'high profit' items? Because they are not in big demand
by your average Mom/Dad that shops there for basic daily foodstuffs for
their families. However, the supermarkets know that there is a small
percentage of their customers that want those kinds of foods and/or
beer, so they keep a limited amount in stock, but they still want to
make a profit on it... (We're back to Marketing 101).

BTW, beer is not sold in supermarkets here. We have to go to the liquor
stores for that. And only the very large liquor stores keep much stock
and/or variety of specialty beers, because again, the average Joe
Citizen usually buys the local beer at a more affordable price. Some
supermarkets sell wine, but it's usually the lower quality stuff and is
no cheaper than the same wine sold at the liquor stores.

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it.
> At the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have
> nothing against a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I
> would consider their pregnancy to be a temporary disability.

For reasons I don't get, that word used for preganancy really
irritates the hell out of pregnant women. At work, the time they
were paid while home having the baby, etc (I think it was 6 weeks)
was through the disability program. Oh, that just grated on their
last nerve. So I'm not surprised there is resistance to getting a
disabled placard for parking purposes.

> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to
> park beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get
> to the store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces,
> everyone needing them would have equal opportunity.

Around here the handicapped spots seem to outnumber the people
who want to use them. This works out great for me because I get
to leave my cart there. (laughing) Joke! Just kidding! The one
place I remember that had courtesy parking for pregnant women
and people with children just added to these largely unused spaces
where you really did have to walk far to the store. I'm not
complaining, but I was in a situation a few years back where that
was not a joke, so I get that all these 'convenience' spots are hard
on people who are in between healthy and disabled enough to apply
for a tag.

nancy

I just recalled that years ago the Navy Commissary in Norfolk and the
Army Commissary in Washington, D.C. had signs at the checkout lines that
gave head of the line privileges to handicapped & pregnant shoppers.

I never saw a pregnant shopper claim that privilege, nor did I.

On Apr 2, 12:45*am, Wayne Boatwright >
wrote:

> As to the spaces designated for women with children in tow...phooey!!! *
> When I was growing up my mother almost always parked a good distance away
> from the stores and I walked with her obediently. *If a parent cannot
> control their child, then they don't belong there.

In large part, I agree with you that women with children do not or
should not need spaces close to the store.
However (you knew there would be one, didn't you<G>) children are
adults in training. They make mistakes, they get tired more
frequently than adults, they do not have the focus that an adult has,
nor do they have the self-preservation skills that older individuals
have. And while mothers are endowed with extra pairs of eyes, hands,
and ears, kids are endowed with insatiable curiosity and will be
distracted by something and dart away, or frightened by something and
start to cry, no matter how good their parent's discipline regimen.

maxine in ri

On Apr 2, 3:37*am, ChattyCathy > wrote:

> Heh. I remember getting pulled over by a traffic cop when I was heavily
> pregnant with the kidlette. (They do that periodically here to check if
> your car is licensed and that you have a valid drivers license).
> Anyway... the cop asked for my drivers license, but I had left my
> handbag (purse?) in the trunk of the car and my license was in it. I
> told him this and started to unfasten my seatbelt and attempt to
> wriggle out of my seat. At this point he was close enough to see my
> condition through the window. He just smiled at me and said, "It's OK,
> lady. Not to worry. Good luck with the new baby". Now I suppose you
> think that's 'favoritism' too?

Absolutely! Police tend to be drawn from a fairly traditional male
role model, one that sees women as the weaker sex. If a young woman
bats her eyelashes and starts to tear up, the cops will generally let
her off with a verbal warning. It help if you are polite, and
submissive in your dealings with them. As I told my neighborhood
hooligans, when the cops stop you, "sir" them to death and they'll
leave you alone (unless they catch you in the act.)

Life isn't fair, so take all the advantages you can<G>.

maxine in ri

On Apr 2, 5:54*am, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Jinx Minx" > wrote in message
>
> > Exactly. *Those designated parking spots have nothing at all to do with
> > child safety or looking out for the health and well-being of mom-to-be.
> > As was pointed out by another poster earlier, it's all about target
> > marketing--don't fool yourself if you think there is any other reason.
> > Who's going to spend more on groceries in a year? *Older single male or
> > mom with three growing kids and a husband?
>
> Which is more likely to buy the high profit steaks and prepared foods and
> six pack of high priced specialty beer?

I forget whether you and the missus had children, but take a look at
the grocery bills for a family, even one shopping frugally, and that
single spendthrift. In general, you'll find the family spends more.
At a "Quiverfull" family, and it's lots more.<g>

maxine in ri

maxine said...

> On Apr 2, 3:37*am, ChattyCathy > wrote:
>
>> Heh. I remember getting pulled over by a traffic cop when I was heavily
>> pregnant with the kidlette. (They do that periodically here to check if
>> your car is licensed and that you have a valid drivers license).
>> Anyway... the cop asked for my drivers license, but I had left my
>> handbag (purse?) in the trunk of the car and my license was in it. I
>> told him this and started to unfasten my seatbelt and attempt to
>> wriggle out of my seat. At this point he was close enough to see my
>> condition through the window. He just smiled at me and said, "It's OK,
>> lady. Not to worry. Good luck with the new baby". Now I suppose you
>> think that's 'favoritism' too?
>
> Absolutely! Police tend to be drawn from a fairly traditional male
> role model, one that sees women as the weaker sex. If a young woman
> bats her eyelashes and starts to tear up, the cops will generally let
> her off with a verbal warning. It help if you are polite, and
> submissive in your dealings with them. As I told my neighborhood
> hooligans, when the cops stop you, "sir" them to death and they'll
> leave you alone (unless they catch you in the act.)
>
> Life isn't fair, so take all the advantages you can<G>.
>
> maxine in ri


I got pulled over on the freeway on the way home from work. CHP (California
Highway Patrol) officer asked me if I knew how fast I was driving. I
replied, I don't think this VW beetle goes faster than 55mph.

He asked for my license and reaching for my wallet I realized I had left it
in yesterday's slack. I told him this but I also recited my driver's
license number. Looking a bit stunned, he said "you actually memorized your
driver's license number?" I replied "Yes. It's correct. Run it." Again for
a moment he was speechless then said, waving me off, "hit the road!" Which
I did!

Maybe life isn't fair but it's not all that bad either, when you consider
the alternat_.ve.

Best,

Andy
Haven't exceeded 130mph yet.

On Thu 02 Apr 2009 12:37:20a, ChattyCathy told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> On Wed 01 Apr 2009 10:32:10p, ChattyCathy told us...
>
>>>>
>>> Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
>>> same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?
>>
>> That has nothing to do with this topic. My parents wanted more
>> children but were unable to have more. Had they had more, I'm quite
>> sure they would have been as well disciplined as I was and no "mother
>> with children" spaces would be required, nor would other shoppers
>> have a problem with their or my presence.
>
> Ahem. If this has nothing to do with the topic, why did you bother to
> tell me how you feel about it?

You opened that door, not I.

>> There is serious parental negligence in discipline and training today,
>> and for that, everone else suffers. It's hardly my fault if they
>> cannot control their kids. If I misbehaved in public, I was quickly
>> whisked away and displined in one way or another. I can assure you it
>> rarely happened. I had great parents and they knew what they were
>> doing.
>
> Sounds to me like are you intimating that *all* the other parents out
> there these days are not as good as yours. I discipline my children
> when in public too. Just because I have children doesn't make me think
> they can do as they please and cause a disturbance either. In fact, we
> all but stopped dining out anywhere until our kidlette was old enough
> to 'behave herself' and not annoy the other restaurant patrons. Same
> goes when I take her shopping with me. If she doesn't behave herself in
> the supermarket she hears all about it (which is not that often, but it
> has happened).

Certainly not all, but a good deal more than when I was growing up. For
lack of a better way to say it, I think it's a sign of the times. Things
were much different than when I was growing up.

>>> I think it's safe to say that you're in the minority when it comes to
>>> not wanting kids - just look at the world population. And IMHO,
>>> getting annoyed about a few parking spaces offered to pregnant Moms
>>> and/or parents with children by the various stores/supermarkets is
>>> only going to raise your blood pressure - it's not going to make the
>>> stores 'reallocate' them. As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
>>> thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is
>>> indeed an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.
>>
>> I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it.
>> At
>> the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have nothing
>> against a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I would
>> consider their
>> pregnancy to be a temporary disability.
>
> Funny way of looking at it, IMHO but if that's your take on it, so be
> it.

Obviously, it's a matter of opinion.

>> I suggest that that they
>> should obtain a temporary disability placard and vie for the legal
>> legitimate disability spaces like anyone else that's disabled. I
>> still see absolutely no reason for specificd spaces dedicated for this
>> purpose.
>
> Somehow, I don't think I needed to have a placard when I was 8 months
> pregnant. It was pretty obvious to most onlookers... Anyway, as it is
> biologically impossible for you to ever be in the same situation, I
> think we'll have to agree to disagree about this.

I certainly agree to disagree. I was quite sure we'd have to from the
beginning.

> Heh. I remember getting pulled over by a traffic cop when I was heavily
> pregnant with the kidlette. (They do that periodically here to check if
> your car is licensed and that you have a valid drivers license).
> Anyway... the cop asked for my drivers license, but I had left my
> handbag (purse?) in the trunk of the car and my license was in it. I
> told him this and started to unfasten my seatbelt and attempt to
> wriggle out of my seat. At this point he was close enough to see my
> condition through the window. He just smiled at me and said, "It's OK,
> lady. Not to worry. Good luck with the new baby". Now I suppose you
> think that's 'favoritism' too?
>>
>> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to
>> park beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get
>> to the store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces,
>> everyone needing them would have equal opportunity.
>
> I dunno where you shop, but where I shop the pregnancy spaces are
> usually close to the Baby-R-Us type of stores (right next to the
> disabled parking spaces).
>

Not so where I live. Supermarkets, and even some of our big box stores
have these spaces and they are closer to the entrances than the disabled
spaces.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

On Thu 02 Apr 2009 05:09:39a, Nancy Young told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it.
>> At the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have
>> nothing against a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I
>> would consider their pregnancy to be a temporary disability.
>
> For reasons I don't get, that word used for preganancy really
> irritates the hell out of pregnant women. At work, the time they
> were paid while home having the baby, etc (I think it was 6 weeks)
> was through the disability program. Oh, that just grated on their
> last nerve. So I'm not surprised there is resistance to getting a
> disabled placard for parking purposes.

Then you'll really like this one... During the many years I worked for the
Bell System, that was officially designated as "Anticipated Disability".

OTOH, employees who needed to *plan* for extended time off following
surgery or serious illness where the need was well known in advance, were
simply put on "Disability". The two categories were not treated equally by
the company. Being on Anticipated Disability did not effect your
employoment record. Bein on Disability was counted against you.

>> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to
>> park beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get
>> to the store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces,
>> everyone needing them would have equal opportunity.
>
> Around here the handicapped spots seem to outnumber the people
> who want to use them. This works out great for me because I get
> to leave my cart there. (laughing) Joke! Just kidding! The one
> place I remember that had courtesy parking for pregnant women
> and people with children just added to these largely unused spaces
> where you really did have to walk far to the store. I'm not
> complaining, but I was in a situation a few years back where that
> was not a joke, so I get that all these 'convenience' spots are hard
> on people who are in between healthy and disabled enough to apply
> for a tag.

That's definitely not the case here in this part of Arizona. It is
frequently very difficult to find an open disability space whereas spaces
for pregnant women are more often vacant. It's probably because the area
is more heavily populated by full time and part time elderly residents than
the average city. The same is probably true in parts of Florida, as well.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

Goomba wrote:

> I just recalled that years ago the Navy Commissary in Norfolk and the
> Army Commissary in Washington, D.C. had signs at the checkout lines
> that gave head of the line privileges to handicapped & pregnant
> shoppers.
>
> I never saw a pregnant shopper claim that privilege, nor did I.

May I ask how old were you when you had your youngest child? (I seem to
recall you have more than one.) Late twenties, early 30s?

Being pregnant at age 43 (and yes, I still plead temporary insanity and
I know it was my choice) was not the breeze I remembered it being when
I had my first child at age 22. I knew it wouldn't be as easy but it
was a lot worse than I had imagined. The kidlette used to 'kick' so
hard that she used to keep me awake at nights - which was not optimal
because I had to be up at 6am in order to be at work by 8am. Towards
the end of my term I was feeling very tired all the time, had backache
and my ankles started to puff up a bit because I was retaining fluids
and my bloodpressure was a bit elevated too...

Thing is, a lot of people seem to forget that not all pregnancies are a
piece of cake (that's the OBFood part) for a myriad of reasons not just
age - and some pregnant women really appreciate those priority parking
spaces. Still dunno why some people seem to think it's such a 'crime'
to do so.
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jinx Minx" > wrote in message
>>
>> Exactly. Those designated parking spots have nothing at all to do with
>> child safety or looking out for the health and well-being of mom-to-be.
>> As was pointed out by another poster earlier, it's all about target
>> marketing--don't fool yourself if you think there is any other reason.
>> Who's going to spend more on groceries in a year? Older single male or
>> mom with three growing kids and a husband?
>
> Which is more likely to buy the high profit steaks and prepared foods and
> six pack of high priced specialty beer?
>

And just how often are those "high profit steaks" being purchased? Once a
month? Once a week? And how does that compare to meat for a family of five
for an entire month? Prepared foods? Do you know why the sudden rise in so
many "prepared food" conveniences? Busy families with two working parents
that don't have time to labor over a from scratch meal made from only
natural ingredients like the retired single guy might have. Beer? With
three kids in tow, do you really think that mom has the time and luxury of
making special trips to specialty stores for each thing she needs and/or
wants? She buys it at the grocery store--one stop shopping. Furthermore,
just because that mom is shopping for a family doesn't necessarily mean
she's shopping on a budget. I ate steak far more often as a kid than I do
as an adult, much to my dismay.

On Thu 02 Apr 2009 05:51:28a, Michael "Dog3" told us...

> Boron Elgar >
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> The spaces provided by groceries and other stores for the convenience
>> of pregnant women or those with young children in tow are quite
>> different from handicapped spaces. The former are provided on private
>> property for the convenience of customers whom the store wishes to
>> encourage to shop there, the latter are provided according to laws to
>> enable the handicapped to shop most anywhere.
>>
>> Private facilities are entitled to offer customer incentives. Period.
>> Their couponing, cash or discount rewards, special sales, additional
>> hours to take advantage of sales, etc, are part of their business
>> plans to encourage some segment of their customers and potential
>> customers with convenience and benefits.
>
> I couldn't agree more but why are some "private facilities" allowed to
> offer customer incentives and conveniences etc. and others are not? The
> first thing to come to mind is a private business owner, wanting to cater
> to his customer and allow smoking in his neighborhood bar?
>
>>
>> This absolutely idiotic whining about a few special parking places is
>> a poorly disguised, and yet typical these days, jab at those who
>> decide to have families.
>
> I'll respectfully disagree and call BS on this one. No one is taking a
> jab at people that decide to have families. In my case I'm taking a jab
> at people that decided to squirt out 3 children in a short time frame
> expecting special treatment because... <GASP>, they have 3 little
> darlings under the age of 6. Tough beans. Let 'em control the kids and
> walk like everyone else.
>
>
>
>> " "It's not right" is a perfect example of what
>> I mean. Of course it's right. It's a company catering to its clientele
>> and unless all this moaning and raised hackles are going to be
>> equally instigated for every frequent flier program, discount, free
>> shipping if you spend $100+or good customer privilege any and all
>> companies offer, then I say stuff a sock in it. And stay out of the
>> express line, too. You don't like it? Go shop someplace that caters to
>> the child free. Can't find a place? Tough shift. Really.
>
> I couldn't agree more. See my first response.
>
> Michael
>

It's all BS, Michael, and women will argue about this until they drop dead.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

"Ed Pawlowski" writes:
> "Boron Elgar" wrote:
>>
>> People are so ****ing jealous that anyone else - *especially* a parent
>> or pregnant woman - gets *any* benefit or courtesy, however minor,
>> even one that is so "no skin off my nose" as half dozen parking
>> places, that it really shows how perfectly idiotic they are.
>
>
> Congratulations on your good health.
>
> You are correct that a business can offer whatever conveniences and
> incentives as they desire.

This is true, so long as they adhere to the Federal anti-discrimination
Laws. It's illegal to divulge the particular condition for which a
handicapped parking permit is issued... how can one be sure a woman who
pulls into a pregnant spot is actually pregant, can the store owner insist
on performing a vaginal exam on the spot... of course not... but a
handicapped placard indicates that an MD says so and that's good enough for
all other handicapped so it's good enough for preggo. Federal Law says you
cannot discriminate, so if there is pregnant parking there also needs to be
designated hemorrhoidal parking... and when someone pulls into hemorrhoidal
parking who's going to dash over and say wait just a minute, prove it!
Obviously Boron is going to kneel down and take a peek over the cheek! LOL

>You are, however, wrong about "no skin off my nose" though. By assigning
>those spaces to a chosen few, others that have needs are forced to walk
>just a little further. I'm talking about the waitress that was on her feet
>for hours, the mailman that walked his route, the arthritic on a cold day
>that needs some groceries, the machinist that stood at his mill all day,
>the teacher in front of the class, the nurse caring for her patients.
>
> I've taken my children to the store for their entire childhood and never
> had a problem parking any place. After two knee surgeries, arthritis, a
> bruised bone, and torn meniscus I try to keep my walking to a painful
> minimum after a day at work where I had to do a lot of walking to earn a
> living. So, it is a bit of skin of some of our noses. Get back to me
> when you are in your 60's and see if your idea changes.
>
> Well, I did not get up on a soapbox because it is painful to do so and
> please excuse me while I go take another 800 mg ibuprofen.
>

Ed, by the time one reaches their sixth decade thay should no longer be
suprised when they encounter those (Boron) who believe the world is ALL
about them, that they are the center of the universe.

I find it odd that those having children (who typically range in age from
16-35 and are generally in better health than the rest of the general
population) need or even want special parking. By that logic everyone over
50 needs special parking. Sure there are pregnant woman with special
circumstances, but no OBGYN is going to deny any patient with those
circumstances a handicapped sticker... although if a pregnant woman's doctor
feels she is well enough to drive from store to store all day then their
doctor will certainly know whether they can walk across a parking lot, in
fact they will recommend walking.

And if one has kids in tow many stores today offer free child care while
customers shop... the YMCA offers free child care for its patrons... most
every neighborhood in the US has free child care available, public libraries
and public schools do, and many houses of worship run a child care service
where folks can pay whatever they can afford or pay nothing at all. Plenty
of parents drop off a toddler or two at a day care center while they shop
with an infant... my own daughter did exactly that on those rare occasions
that someone wasn't available to baby sit... but mostly young pregnant women
who already have toddlers have many friends in the neighborhood in exactly
the same circumstance who will gladly tend each others kids and/or shop
together. Within a few days of someone's first child being taken out in a
stoller they will meet all the other parents of youg children in the
neighborhood... same way all who walk dogs meet... no, only the dogs and
Boron sniff butts! LOL

General handicapped parking already exists... creating special parking
individually labeled for *every* possible contingency (as for all the
occupations you list, and there are plenty more who stand all day, etc.) is
utterly ridiculous, and to only have a select few labeled is illegal because
it discriminates, the owner of a parking lot can't do that, not in the US...
anyone who is marking spots for pregnant patrons only is breaking the law.
Before I'll agree to pregnant and toddler spaces for perfectly healthy women
there first needs to be senior citizen spaces... and what about the legally
blind, don't they need special parking? Now there's going to be some
pinhead asking how can the legally blind drive... well they very often are
transported by someone and therefore are entitled to handicapped parking the
same as any other handicapped person who is transported by an attendant...
also the blind are very often tranported with their seeing eye dog... and
no, the dog doesn't drive... although they can probably be trained to drive
much better than many on the road.

ChattyCathy wrote:


> Heh. I remember getting pulled over by a traffic cop when I was heavily
> pregnant with the kidlette. (They do that periodically here to check if
> your car is licensed and that you have a valid drivers license).
> Anyway... the cop asked for my drivers license, but I had left my
> handbag (purse?) in the trunk of the car and my license was in it. I
> told him this and started to unfasten my seatbelt and attempt to
> wriggle out of my seat. At this point he was close enough to see my
> condition through the window. He just smiled at me and said, "It's OK,
> lady. Not to worry. Good luck with the new baby". Now I suppose you
> think that's 'favoritism' too?

The last time I got pulled over by a cop I couldn't imagine what I could
have been doing wrong. I knew I wasn't speeding, my plates were up to
date... But I pulled over, got out my license and proof of insurance,
rolled down my window. The cop walked up, looked in the window and
blurted out, "What the hell is THAT?!"

I was taken aback because I'd never heard a cop swear, at least not at
me, and it took me a second to figure out what he was looking at. I
have a shredded teddy bear head hanging from my rear view mirror. So I
explained that I had made fun of the air freshener doohickey that my
daughter has in her truck that makes it smell like a barbie bordello -
plastic and synthetic flowers, mmmm. And in retaliation, she tied the
head of Cooper's latest victim to my rear view mirror (in a household
that includes a terrier, stuffed toys have a lifespan measured in
minutes). I kinda liked it so I left it there.

He shook his head and said, "Lady, that's pretty weird". I shrugged.
If I want opionions from people young enough to be my kids, I'll ask my
kids. I thought it but didn't say it. You don't get to be my age
without learning not to smart off to cops, even if they are still wet
behind the ears.

He was still studying the head with a sort of horrified fascination so I
asked him, "Hey, why did you stop me, what did I do?"

"What? Oh. Oh, yeah. Your right brake light is out, you'll need to
get that fixed". And still shaking his head, he went back to his car,
pulled around me and went on his way.

Pfeh. I LIKE my severed head. His name is Ted. Ted Bundy. My van
decorations are eclectic. I've got my pirate fish and Flying Spaghetti
Monster emblems, two "My child is an honor student at ****" bumper
stickers (one for each kid), and a "My Border Collie is smarter than
your honor student" bumper sticker (I should know); my Homegrown and
Utilikilt stickers on the rear windows. Oh, and my "Lead Dog" license
plate holder that I won down in Memphis, which is fitting because me and
Moby, the great white van, usually take point when my flyball club
caravans to tournaments. Ted fits right in, so who cares if he gives
nosy young coplings the heebie jeebies.

On 02 Apr 2009 12:37:34 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\""
> wrote:

>Kathleen > news:Kj9Al.204117$6r1.77913
: in rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> Dierbergs and Schnucks both have parking reserved for... Shoot. Don't
>> remember the exact wording... Expectant and New Mothers?? Something
>> like that? These are in addition to the close in, extra wide official
>> handicapped parking slots.
>>
>> And in contrast to the handicapped slots, I can't ever remember
>noticing
>> a mama slot being obviously abused.
>
>Hmmm... I don't *think* the Dierbergs and Schnucks in my area has them.
>I'll have to take a look next time I'm at either store, which will
>probably be today. I need some food in the house because I've been gone
>the past day and a half. I don't even know why I feel strongly about
>this issue. I park at the back of the lot and walk anyway. I don't like
>all those shopping dingys on my car.
>
Hey, a car isn't properly broken in unless it got a ding on all four
doors within the first month!



--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Michael "Dog3"" > wrote in message
...
> Boron Elgar >
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> The spaces provided by groceries and other stores for the convenience
>> of pregnant women or those with young children in tow are quite
>> different from handicapped spaces. The former are provided on private
>> property for the convenience of customers whom the store wishes to
>> encourage to shop there, the latter are provided according to laws to
>> enable the handicapped to shop most anywhere.
>>
>> Private facilities are entitled to offer customer incentives. Period.
>> Their couponing, cash or discount rewards, special sales, additional
>> hours to take advantage of sales, etc, are part of their business
>> plans to encourage some segment of their customers and potential
>> customers with convenience and benefits.
>
> I couldn't agree more but why are some "private facilities" allowed to
> offer customer incentives and conveniences etc. and others are not? The
> first thing to come to mind is a private business owner, wanting to cater
> to his customer and allow smoking in his neighborhood bar?
>
>>

Because secondhand smoke is a serious health issue. Having to walk an extra
20 feet is not, even if you are arthritic, is not. I could lodge the same
complaint about seniors thinking they deserve special discounts just for
being old. Sure, they may not have full time income any more, but that in
no way means they have less money to spend. They can pay full price just
like me.

>> This absolutely idiotic whining about a few special parking places is
>> a poorly disguised, and yet typical these days, jab at those who
>> decide to have families.
>
> I'll respectfully disagree and call BS on this one. No one is taking a
> jab at people that decide to have families. In my case I'm taking a jab
> at people that decided to squirt out 3 children in a short time frame
> expecting special treatment because... <GASP>, they have 3 little
> darlings under the age of 6. Tough beans. Let 'em control the kids and
> walk like everyone else.
>

I don't think these parking spaces exist because families think they deserve
special privileges. And quite frankly, I don't know one mom that expects
special treatment of any sort just because she has multiple young children.

>
>> " "It's not right" is a perfect example of what
>> I mean. Of course it's right. It's a company catering to its clientele
>> and unless all this moaning and raised hackles are going to be
>> equally instigated for every frequent flier program, discount, free
>> shipping if you spend $100+or good customer privilege any and all
>> companies offer, then I say stuff a sock in it. And stay out of the
>> express line, too. You don't like it? Go shop someplace that caters to
>> the child free. Can't find a place? Tough shift. Really.
>
> I couldn't agree more. See my first response.
>
> Michael

Jinx

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>>
>
>>
>> People are so ****ing jealous that anyone else - *especially* a parent
>> or pregnant woman - gets *any* benefit or courtesy, however minor,
>> even one that is so "no skin off my nose" as half dozen parking
>> places, that it really shows how perfectly idiotic they are.
>
>
> Congratulations on your good health.
>
> You are correct that a business can offer whatever conveniences and
> incentives as they desire. You are, however, wrong about "no skin off my
> nose" though. By assigning those spaces to a chosen few, others that have
> needs are forced to walk just a little further. I'm talking about the
> waitress that was on her feet for hours, the mailman that walked his
> route, the arthritic on a cold day that needs some groceries, the
> machinist that stood at his mill all day, the teacher in front of the
> class, the nurse caring for her patients.
>

Yes, but do you really think those "special" spaces will be open when said
waitress, mailman, arthritic goes to shop? No, they'll just be filled by
someone else--maybe a healthy, athletic guy in running shorts, or the newly
licensed teenager. Everybody wants to score "the good spot", which is quite
evident by witnessing cars drive round and round the parking lot like a
vulture waiting for a fresh kill.

> I've taken my children to the store for their entire childhood and never
> had a problem parking any place. After two knee surgeries, arthritis, a
> bruised bone, and torn meniscus I try to keep my walking to a painful
> minimum after a day at work where I had to do a lot of walking to earn a
> living. So, it is a bit of skin of some of our noses. Get back to me
> when you are in your 60's and see if your idea changes.
>

Perhaps you should get a handicapped permit. It would seem to me you
qualify.

> Well, I did not get up on a soapbox because it is painful to do so and
> please excuse me while I go take another 800 mg ibuprofen.

Jinx

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Thu 02 Apr 2009 12:37:20a, ChattyCathy told us...

>>
>> I dunno where you shop, but where I shop the pregnancy spaces are
>> usually close to the Baby-R-Us type of stores (right next to the
>> disabled parking spaces).
>>
>
> Not so where I live. Supermarkets, and even some of our big box
> stores have these spaces and they are closer to the entrances than the
> disabled spaces.
>
I'd have to hazard a guess here. Maybe they have more pregnant shoppers
than disabled shoppers? As has been pointed out here by more than one
poster, it's pretty obvious that the supermarkets provide these parking
spaces purely from a 'lets make a few more bucks any which we can'
angle than from any sense of kindness or goodwill towards their
customers.

BTW, just as a matter of interest - and sorry if you've already
mentioned this elsewhere and I didn't see it - have you ever approached
the management at the supermarkets concerned and made your feelings
about this known? I'd really like to know what their response would be
(or was) <g>
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

maxine wrote:

> Absolutely! Police tend to be drawn from a fairly traditional male
> role model, one that sees women as the weaker sex.


I think perhaps you are about 20-30 years behind the times. There was a
time when police were recruiting from the white male population, large
men who imposing stature intimidated people, not to mention having to
rely on brute force to deal with unruly people. Times have changed.
However, the courts still see women as the weaker sex.

> If a young woman
> bats her eyelashes and starts to tear up, the cops will generally let
> her off with a verbal warning.


It didn't help my wife when she got pulled over for speeding while en
route to the hospital where her mother was dying. Having worked in law
enforcement for a number of years I saw my share of female tears. It
was hard to tell if the tears were genuine or just part of a female ploy
to get out of a ticket.


> It help if you are polite, and
> submissive in your dealings with them. As I told my neighborhood
> hooligans, when the cops stop you, "sir" them to death and they'll
> leave you alone (unless they catch you in the act.)

Cops don't always like giving tickets. You have to remember that it is
our government that decides what is legal and what isn't, and what the
punishment will be, not the cops. The cops often disagree with the the
politicians about what the real problems are and how to deal with them.
Cops have a lot of discretion when it comes to laying charges. If a
person acknowledges that they have done wrong they can be given a
warning and sent on their way. When someone argues and gets abusive
there are ways to deal with it. I certain had my share of verbal abuse
laid on me, and it was never a surprise to look at the conviction record
for those people and see "attitude adjustment". While few people have
absolutely clean records, and some have the odd conviction for speeding
or failing to yield, these guys had frequent dealings with the police
and usually ended up with multiple charges each time. They would be
charged for the things that most cops would never bother with when
dealing with decent people.



> Life isn't fair, so take all the advantages you can<G>.


True, but most of those guys don't catch a ride to work on the back of a
turnip truck.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>
> It's all BS, Michael, and women will argue about this until they drop
> dead.
>
<snork>

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 02 Apr 2009 05:09:39a, Nancy Young told us...

>> Around here the handicapped spots seem to outnumber the people
>> who want to use them.

> That's definitely not the case here in this part of Arizona. It is
> frequently very difficult to find an open disability space whereas
> spaces for pregnant women are more often vacant. It's probably
> because the area is more heavily populated by full time and part time
> elderly residents than the average city. The same is probably true
> in parts of Florida, as well.

In a place like that, handicapped spots become rather useless.
If 75% of your customers have a handicap tag and you designated
that percentage of your spots, they aren't all going to be next to
the door.

nancy

On Thu 02 Apr 2009 08:59:35a, Nancy Young told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Thu 02 Apr 2009 05:09:39a, Nancy Young told us...
>
>>> Around here the handicapped spots seem to outnumber the people who
>>> want to use them.
>
>> That's definitely not the case here in this part of Arizona. It is
>> frequently very difficult to find an open disability space whereas
>> spaces for pregnant women are more often vacant. It's probably
>> because the area is more heavily populated by full time and part time
>> elderly residents than the average city. The same is probably true in
>> parts of Florida, as well.
>
> In a place like that, handicapped spots become rather useless.
> If 75% of your customers have a handicap tag and you designated
> that percentage of your spots, they aren't all going to be next to
> the door.
>
> nancy
>

That's true enough, Nancy, and we do have a higher proportion of
handicapped spaces, although they are distributed laterally across the
front of the store and there is usually seating provided all along the
front of the store which is easy to get to. This is at least better than
having the handicapped spaces run from the front to the back of the parking
lot with no place to rest along the way.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brooklyn1" > wrote in message
>>>
>> Doctors already give their MD license number on the application, always
>> have. I doubt CT will succeed in such stupidity, no politician is going
>> to jeapardize their political career second guessing MDs... I mean most
>> small town politicians only have a High School diploma, maybe only a GED.
>> Handicap stickers aren't permanent anyway.... initially doctors usually
>> give a six month provisional and thereafter the term in most states is
>> for three years, and can be withdrawn at any time. I've no idea why
>> anyone would want to deny someone handicapped parking, that just
>> demonstrates extreme ignorance, I mean like the most extreme ignorance
>> possible, we're talkin' Pinhead City here.
>
> CT issues permits with an expiration date (determined by the doctor) or a
> permanent permit. At one time they gave you two. The problem is not
> denial, but abuse. When granny passes on, the kids grab the placard to
> use instead of turning it back in. Lack of control is the problem and
> that leads to abuse. I've never seen anyone actually check the names on
> the placard. They are numbered and have to be signed. The state though,
> has no idea how many are still valid and how many are expired but still
> used.
>
>
In NY the doctor can issue a six month tag or a three year tag... in some
towns it will be a five year tag... the town clerk is not going to do all
the paperwork for a two week tag, neither will the doctor (forms need to go
to DMV and other agencies). If you recently had say a surgical procedure or
whatever that causes you to be "handicapped" for a few weeks just don't
drive for the few weeks or use your 6 month tag and destroy it after the few
weeks... typically people who will be recovering from some procedure that
necessetates only a few weeks recuperation they won't requst a handicapped
tag, they will only drive when necessary and they'll continue to park as
they did previously (common sense), no one needs handicapped parking for a
few weeks... if you just had your torn meniscus repaired your doctor wants
you to walk, with crutches at first... typically only needs about week
before one can walk as well if not better than before the surgery, today
it's a laproscopic procedure, only a tiny hole. Nearly half the golfers I
know over fifty have had knee surgeries and eventually get artificial knees,
none that I know of have applied for handicapped parking, most don't want
anyone to know... a few are in their nineties, snowbirds who golf every day.

The tags are clearly marked on the face with the expiration date, from where
issued, and with a serial number... any misuse is easy to report. Naturally
there will always be those who use someone elses tag, just like so many
drive without a licence... there will always be scofflaws... but most folks
who park in handicapped spots do so legally, and most who break the law get
caught. Most folks with handicapped placcards break the law anyway, it's
illegal (in NY) to have the tag displayed hanging from the rear view mirror
while the vehicle is moving. Often when someone pulls into a handicapped
spot there will be gawkers noting no tag... well the dummies are ignorant of
the law, the tag is not supposed to be there while pulling in... if the
pinheads waited a few seconds before rapping on the window and engaging
their foul mouths they'd plainly see the driver reach over to get the tag
and place it into view. Those driving with someone elses tag or an expired
tag usually get caught when stopped for any driving infraction or even a
routine safety check because they too will leave the tag displayed in the
windshild (brazen and stupid) and the cop will check the tag serial number
to the licence/registration of teh driver with the cruiser's computer...
most scofflaws eventually get caught... the tag gets pulled and the rightful
user is SOOL, permanently... if anyone has a handicapped tag do not ever
allow anyone to use it, you will most assuredly lose that priviledge,
forever. Those who know they will be permanently handicapped can opt for
the special handicap licence plate issued by the DMV, but that's an otion,
many don't want to display that they're handicapped, some are proud of their
handicap, typically those will have a VFW emblem displayed, but perhaps not.

In article 7>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:


> > <laugh> Would be my pleasure. I happen to like children.

> > Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
> > same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?
>
> That has nothing to do with this topic. My parents wanted more children
> but were unable to have more. Had they had more, I'm quite sure they would
> have been as well disciplined as I was and no "mother with children" spaces
> would be required, nor would other shoppers have a problem with their or my
> presence.
>
> There is serious parental negligence in discipline and training today, and
> for that, everone else suffers. It's hardly my fault if they cannot
> control their kids. If I misbehaved in public, I was quickly whisked away
> and displined in one way or another. I can assure you it rarely happened.
> I had great parents and they knew what they were doing.

I think you just don't remember, Wayne. Very few people have memories
of when they were really little. All normal children go through a phase
called the "terrible twos". If they don't, they simply aren't normal
children. They are learning that they can exert control over the
outside world. They try different techniques. One is the all out
temper tantrum, with screaming and flailing of arms and legs. It is the
job of the parents to make sure that last technique simply doesn't work.
But reasoning with a two year old doesn't work well. They don't have
the understanding and attention span to do a lot of things. With a one
year old, you have the ultimate control. They haven't learned how to
walk yet. When they are five and older, you can reason with them. They
understand about the future (like later that afternoon).

> I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it. At
> the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have nothing against
> a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I would consider their
> pregnancy to be a temporary disability. I suggest that that they should
> obtain a temporary disability placard and vie for the legal legitimate
> disability spaces like anyone else that's disabled. I still see absolutely
> no reason for specificd spaces dedicated for this purpose.

I understand your point. I don't agree with it, but it is reasonable.
Hopefully there are few of these spots, especially in a retirement area.
Women usually just don't spend that much of their time being pregnant,
especially those later, difficult months. Some women, especially those
pregnant with their first child, may not even use those spots.

> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to park
> beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get to the
> store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces, everyone
> needing them would have equal opportunity.

It sounds like you have a solution looking for a problem. If more
handicapped spots are needed, then there should be more handicapped
spots. That seems pretty simple. If there are enough spots, then the
store will lose business.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Goomba" wrote

>I just recalled that years ago the Navy Commissary in Norfolk and the Army
>Commissary in Washington, D.C. had signs at the checkout lines that gave
>head of the line privileges to handicapped & pregnant shoppers.
>
> I never saw a pregnant shopper claim that privilege, nor did I.

Sign still there in Norfolk, at least the main commisary. I've never seen
one use it either (handicapped or pregnant), but I have occasionally seen
folks politely pass them up ahead a bit before they get to there the rope
lines are too thin to pass. Thats, if they are obviously 'about to pop' or
using a walker/wheelchair and look like they could use a hand.

BTW, they don't have special parking for the women with kids or advanced
pregancy there.

In article >,
ChattyCathy > wrote:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> > On Wed 01 Apr 2009 10:32:10p, ChattyCathy told us...
>
> >>>
> >> Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
> >> same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?
> >
> > That has nothing to do with this topic. My parents wanted more
> > children but were unable to have more. Had they had more, I'm quite
> > sure they would have been as well disciplined as I was and no "mother
> > with children" spaces would be required, nor would other shoppers
> > have a problem with their or my presence.
>
> Ahem. If this has nothing to do with the topic, why did you bother to
> tell me how you feel about it?

Wayne is a very polite person. He obviously had quality parenting (and
no, I'm not being sarcastic here).

> > There is serious parental negligence in discipline and training today,
> > and
> > for that, everone else suffers. It's hardly my fault if they cannot
> > control their kids. If I misbehaved in public, I was quickly whisked
> > away
> > and displined in one way or another. I can assure you it rarely
> > happened. I had great parents and they knew what they were doing.
>
> Sounds to me like are you intimating that *all* the other parents out
> there these days are not as good as yours. I discipline my children
> when in public too. Just because I have children doesn't make me think
> they can do as they please and cause a disturbance either. In fact, we
> all but stopped dining out anywhere until our kidlette was old enough
> to 'behave herself' and not annoy the other restaurant patrons. Same
> goes when I take her shopping with me. If she doesn't behave herself in
> the supermarket she hears all about it (which is not that often, but it
> has happened).

Let's face it. Traditional adult restaurants are not suitable for
children. Adults want to sit around, talk and enjoy their food. Kids
want to fill their stomachs and get on with the playing. There are
notable exceptions.

> >> I think it's safe to say that you're in the minority when it comes to
> >> not wanting kids - just look at the world population. And IMHO,
> >> getting annoyed about a few parking spaces offered to pregnant Moms
> >> and/or parents with children by the various stores/supermarkets is
> >> only going to raise your blood pressure - it's not going to make the
> >> stores 'reallocate' them. As Boron pointed out somewhere else in this
> >> thread, the stores do it to 'keep their clientele happy'. It is
> >> indeed an added incentive to shop there - which seems to work.
> >
> > I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it.
> > At
> > the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have nothing
> > against a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I would
> > consider their
> > pregnancy to be a temporary disability.
>
> Funny way of looking at it, IMHO but if that's your take on it, so be
> it.

My wife and I went camping when she was 7 months pregnant with our
first. The ranger gave her a funny look and had a little talk with her
before we left for an easy ranger hike. It got a little difficult when
the ranger got lost, but she did OK. She worked up until the day she
went into labor. She didn't need a special space then. But I've known
lots of women who were perfectly healthy before and after pregancy, but
had a pregnancy-related condition, or another condition that was made
worse by pregnancy, and really needed special parking.

> > I suggest that that they
> > should obtain a temporary disability placard and vie for the legal
> > legitimate
> > disability spaces like anyone else that's disabled. I still see
> > absolutely no reason for specificd spaces dedicated for this purpose.
>
> Somehow, I don't think I needed to have a placard when I was 8 months
> pregnant. It was pretty obvious to most onlookers... Anyway, as it is
> biologically impossible for you to ever be in the same situation, I
> think we'll have to agree to disagree about this.

That's silly. 8 months pregnant, person in wheelchair; yeah, that's
obvious. They go in the store, leaving a vehicle with no placard.
Police officer sees said car with no person anywhere near, and writes
ticket.

> Heh. I remember getting pulled over by a traffic cop when I was heavily
> pregnant with the kidlette. (They do that periodically here to check if
> your car is licensed and that you have a valid drivers license).
> Anyway... the cop asked for my drivers license, but I had left my
> handbag (purse?) in the trunk of the car and my license was in it. I
> told him this and started to unfasten my seatbelt and attempt to
> wriggle out of my seat. At this point he was close enough to see my
> condition through the window. He just smiled at me and said, "It's OK,
> lady. Not to worry. Good luck with the new baby". Now I suppose you
> think that's 'favoritism' too?
> >
> > I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to
> > park beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get
> > to the store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces,
> > everyone needing them would have equal opportunity.
>
> I dunno where you shop, but where I shop the pregnancy spaces are
> usually close to the Baby-R-Us type of stores (right next to the
> disabled parking spaces).

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Thu 02 Apr 2009 10:01:16a, Dan Abel told us...

> In article 7>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>
>> > <laugh> Would be my pleasure. I happen to like children.
>
>> > Yep, you've made that pretty clear. However, if your Mom had felt the
>> > same way, you wouldn't be here, now would you?
>>
>> That has nothing to do with this topic. My parents wanted more
>> children but were unable to have more. Had they had more, I'm quite
>> sure they would have been as well disciplined as I was and no "mother
>> with children" spaces would be required, nor would other shoppers have
>> a problem with their or my presence.
>>
>> There is serious parental negligence in discipline and training today,
>> and for that, everone else suffers. It's hardly my fault if they
>> cannot control their kids. If I misbehaved in public, I was quickly
>> whisked away and displined in one way or another. I can assure you it
>> rarely happened. I had great parents and they knew what they were
>> doing.
>
> I think you just don't remember, Wayne. Very few people have memories
> of when they were really little. All normal children go through a phase
> called the "terrible twos". If they don't, they simply aren't normal
> children. They are learning that they can exert control over the
> outside world. They try different techniques. One is the all out
> temper tantrum, with screaming and flailing of arms and legs. It is the
> job of the parents to make sure that last technique simply doesn't work.
> But reasoning with a two year old doesn't work well. They don't have
> the understanding and attention span to do a lot of things. With a one
> year old, you have the ultimate control. They haven't learned how to
> walk yet. When they are five and older, you can reason with them. They
> understand about the future (like later that afternoon).

I think I remember a lot more than many people do, but certainly not
everything. I was not the "perfect" child by any means, but I was well
disciplined. If I acted out I was whisked away immediately. More parents
did that in my days of childhood than now. Many parents today simply
ignore whatever the child is doing and subject the rest of us to the
turmoil. It thoroughly ****es me off.

>
>> I'm quite sure that I'm in the minority and don't mind admitting it.
>> At the same time, I think you may be missing my point. I have nothing
>> against a pregnant woman parking close to the store, and I would
>> consider their pregnancy to be a temporary disability. I suggest that
>> that they should obtain a temporary disability placard and vie for the
>> legal legitimate disability spaces like anyone else that's disabled. I
>> still see absolutely no reason for specificd spaces dedicated for this
>> purpose.
>
> I understand your point. I don't agree with it, but it is reasonable.
> Hopefully there are few of these spots, especially in a retirement area.
> Women usually just don't spend that much of their time being pregnant,
> especially those later, difficult months. Some women, especially those
> pregnant with their first child, may not even use those spots.
>
>> I become dismayed when I see people on walkers or crutches having to
>> park beyond the distance of the pregnancy spaces and struggle to get to
>> the store, when if they were all designated as disability spaces,
>> everyone needing them would have equal opportunity.
>
> It sounds like you have a solution looking for a problem. If more
> handicapped spots are needed, then there should be more handicapped
> spots. That seems pretty simple. If there are enough spots, then the
> store will lose business.

The problem clearly exists here, Dan. If I didn't see it on a daily basis,
I would not have dreamed of a solution. Perhaps the greater Phoenix area
is one of a few cities that is a bit more different than most. We have a
large number of all types of stores, but we have had an exploding
population for more than the past decade until this recession hit. There
are always more peoply vying for position than there are positions. This
includes not only parking spaces, but also queues for movies, restaurants,
checkout lines, etc. One can easily encounter a 2-hour wait for just an
average restaurant, often at off-peak hours.

There are many things I like about living here, but competitive parking and
waiting in long queues are not among them.

Every year I can hardly wait for the "winter visitors (snowbirds)" to leave
because it frees up a significant number those vying for position. Their
sense of entitlement is appalling, as well.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.